Author Topic: Shalom  (Read 1918 times)

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Offline Dan Ben Noah

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Shalom
« on: August 03, 2014, 09:16:21 PM »
Shalom
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 09:56:50 PM by Dan Ben Noah »
Jeremiah 16:19 O Lord, Who are my power and my strength and my refuge in the day of trouble, to You nations will come from the ends of the earth and say, "Only lies have our fathers handed down to us, emptiness in which there is nothing of any avail!

Zechariah 8:23 So said the Lord of Hosts: In those days, when ten men of all the languages of the nations shall take hold of the skirt of a Jewish man, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."

Offline RussianLeo777

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Re: Atheism: Why people don't believe in God
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2014, 09:39:39 PM »
I have to disagree.  I am an agnostic, and I consider myself to be a righteous person.  Free will applies to all.  It does not mean that all atheists/agnostics are evil. 

Offline RussianLeo777

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Re: Atheism: Why people don't believe in God
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2014, 10:21:23 PM »
However since all these atheist philosophers were screwed up, atheists who are not screwed up were persuaded by arguments that can probably be traced back to people who were screwed up.  Also if atheism is true, the Jewish people have no meaning and there is nothing special about them, since the whole thing holding them together as a people is a religion.

That doesn't have to be true at all.  People have free will to believe or not believe what they want.  That does not mean they are screwed up, or that the Jewish people are not special.  Are you implying that atheism is antisemitism? 

Offline RussianLeo777

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Re: Atheism: Why people don't believe in God
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2014, 10:56:32 PM »
There is often a negative psychological motive for disbelieving God.  And actually atheistic regimes like Nazis and Communists are anti-Semites.

The Communists despised all religion.  The practice of Christianity, Judaism and Islam, as well as other eastern religions were all looked down upon in the Soviet Union.  The Nazis were Christian.  The Catholic church was willingly assisting in the Holocaust.  I do agree with you that many leftists are anti-Semites, but that is due to their warped political views.  Many left wing lunatics despise Christianity and Judaism, while loving Islam. 

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Atheism: Why people don't believe in God
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2014, 11:03:31 PM »
There is no logical way around G-d. No matter what theory you come up with, "where did it come from" necessarily leads you to a being not bound by the world. I know lots of atheists and agnostics, and what it all comes down to is that they do not sufficiently analyze their own lives. That being said, to quote from Rabbi Mizrachi "you can expect anything from someone who is not connected to Hashem". There are certainly moral atheists, but any discussion I've ever had with such people ends in a point where they admit they do what feels right, or what they think is right. Nothing is as prone to sudden change as emotions and most of the time people's opinions are wrong, because they are always necessarily based on an extremely limited view of all the consequences of their actions throughout the world so as much as righteous people should be praised for the righteous things they do, an atheist world would certainly not solve any problems whatsoever, in fact, to the exact contrary.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Atheism: Why people don't believe in God
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2014, 11:09:25 PM »
They love Islam because Islam's thuggish doctrines do not challenge the conscience of an atheist like Judaism and Christianity (which includes the Jewish Bible).

Pisslam's teaching do contradict their principles entirely, and a rare few athiests I know are 100% against it. The majority are willing to look the other way, because "anything for the cause".
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline RussianLeo777

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Re: Atheism: Why people don't believe in God
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2014, 11:57:31 PM »
Also, atheists are in no position to say Islam is wrong or a bad religion.  Since atheists pull their moral compass straight out of their tuchus and do not accept that God has revealed objective truth in which all are judged by the same standards, what makes their individual moral compass better than anyone else's?  If you are an atheist who thinks the Jews are special just because you happen to have been born a Jew, what makes you any better than an Arab who thinks the Arabs are special?

Now you're putting all atheists in the same category.  Not all atheists think alike, just like not all religious people think alike.  Anybody with common sense see Islam and the Arabs for what they really are.  Remember, not all atheists are leftists..just like not all leftists and atheists.  Until you can provide proof to me (and not this theory that it had to be G-d who created the universe -- it is what is it, a theory) I will believe what I choose to believe.   

Offline RussianLeo777

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Re: Atheism: Why people don't believe in God
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2014, 12:22:17 AM »
Regardless, the point is that all atheists are in no position to be against anyone, including Muslims, because since atheists go by their own feelings to decide right from wrong and not God's, they cannot condemn anyone else for going by their feelings, including Muslims.  Once God goes out the window, everything is relative, so to say you're better than another group (even a group of terrorists) would just be arrogant.  "What's right" only applies when the same morals apply to all people.

Your logic makes absolutely zero sense.  One does not have to be religious to condemn the terror that Muslims commit world wide.  Morality is not universal, even amongst religious people. 

Offline RussianLeo777

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Re: Atheism: Why people don't believe in God
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2014, 04:20:54 PM »
What I am saying is that as an atheist, you have no moral authority to judge anyone else's morals, including Muslims, if you pull your own morality out of your tuchus.  If morality is not universal, then no one's morality is any better than anyone else's, it's all relative.  However if there is a God, then morality is universal, and everyone is held to the same moral standard.  Maybe not everyone knows that standard correctly, but it exists, and people have an idea of what it is because they were created in God's image.

"If there is a God".  Your words not mine.  How do you know what God really considers moral?  The Bible was written by human beings.  Your argument that one can not be moral unless they are religious makes as much sense as boobs on a bull

Online angryChineseKahanist

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Re: Atheism: Why people don't believe in God
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2014, 04:53:01 PM »
I worship snakes.
U+262d=U+5350=U+9774

Offline muman613

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Re: Atheism: Why people don't believe in God
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2014, 05:07:08 PM »
The Torah is  the source of all morality. Without it people make up morals as they go along. I strongly disagree with RussianLeo777 that the Torah was written by man. The truth of Torah is what gives us morality and without it we would have no morals today.

Atheists make up their morality as they go along. Without a universal reference (which the Torah provides) the atheist must adjust his 'morality' to suit the modern opinions and whims. The Torah truth is eternal and does not change, as the will of Hashem remains constant as it was before creation and as it will remain after creation ceases to exist.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Atheism: Why people don't believe in God
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2014, 05:10:25 PM »
Now you're putting all atheists in the same category.  Not all atheists think alike, just like not all religious people think alike.  Anybody with common sense see Islam and the Arabs for what they really are.  Remember, not all atheists are leftists..just like not all leftists and atheists.  Until you can provide proof to me (and not this theory that it had to be G-d who created the universe -- it is what is it, a theory) I will believe what I choose to believe.

Dan Ben Noah incorrectly expressed a true point. To be 100% accurate, an atheist can say that he doesn't like pisslam, that he disagrees with it and doesn't think that it's efficient or nice or logical and make personal disagreements, but outside of his opinion and observational remarks, he can't say that it is morally wrong to practice pisslam. Many muslims have converted British atheists to their monstrous religion, because they can easily feed on this, since there is no secular way to really explain how the dumbest most vile people on the earth can thrive in Western democracies, and take them over. By all logic, pisslam should have never existed, and disappeared every day that it stopped making full on wars. As such, they get atheists to abandon all logic and join them.

This is where the arguments to change pisslam, or to follow the imaginary moderate pisslam, or to make mudrats accept the "culture" of a place come from, and the secular authorities truly believe they are solutions, because it's completely logical, if what everyone believes is likely false, they can continue to have their false beliefs and practices so long as they do things we like, that statistically have lots of good citizens doing them. If you tell them that the mudrats are a punishment from Hashem and they will destroy them if they leave one family there, because that's their purpose in this world, and by turning to Hashem the mudrats will be powerless, they'll laugh, but not for long.

"If there is a God".  Your words not mine.  How do you know what God really considers moral?  The Bible was written by human beings.  Your argument that one can not be moral unless they are religious makes as much sense as boobs on a bull

The last sentence you wrote is completely correct, and Rabbi Kahane explains this argument as the reason why deform and conserved Judaism was and is dying out.

For the rest, we know what Hashem considers moral by what is written in Torah. There is no logical explanation, furthermore how Torah could have been written by humans. If you can debate and disproove more than one point in this video, you are more intelligent than a NASA scientist who argues with the Rabbi in the following movie till this day, and has conceded on every point (except a minor one) that Torah could not have possibly been written by humans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7AIUn8VcjI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-KnypPSOYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrbJblAeVjc

If you are Jewish, PM me your info, and if you like this, I'll pay you a salary to go learn more.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline RussianLeo777

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Re: Atheism: Why people don't believe in God
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2014, 03:20:10 AM »
Yes, I am a Russian Jew.  I have family in Israel.  In fact, my cousin is a famous professional dancer who represents Israel in international competition.  We are proud Zionists and are very right wing.  But, we are secular.  Have you ever heard the quote "You don't need religion to have morals. If you can't determine right from wrong then you lack empathy, not religion".  We support JTF politically 100%.  However, I do think a huge mistake JTF is making is isolating secular right wing Jews.  The movement would be so much stronger if it appealed to both religious AND secular Jews.  The vast majority of Jews in Israel are not religious, and that will not change anytime soon.  Shaming them does not help the cause.   

Offline Debbie Shafer

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Re: Atheism: Why people don't believe in God
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2014, 09:19:45 AM »
Don't you just love the shrinks analysis of why people are not believers.  They aren't believers because they don't know the truth, its easier to believe the lie than the truth.  I feel sorry for them.  Every single prophecy that Jesus predicted would happen before his crucifixion has been fulfilled to the letter...including all the prophecies that are happening to Israel and the world.   In order to have the truth come to you, you have to receive the Holy Spirit which is the Mighty Counselor for All God's people...he gives wisdom and discernment! Atheist Richard Dawkins could never explain how the perfect cell and chromosomes were created...they had to be put together with total accuracy to form life!   These people will be so shocked when they find out how wrong they are!

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Atheism: Why people don't believe in God
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2014, 02:45:56 PM »
Bla bla bla

Post must go.

Yes, I am a Russian Jew.  I have family in Israel.  In fact, my cousin is a famous professional dancer who represents Israel in international competition.  We are proud Zionists and are very right wing.  But, we are secular.  Have you ever heard the quote "You don't need religion to have morals. If you can't determine right from wrong then you lack empathy, not religion".  We support JTF politically 100%.  However, I do think a huge mistake JTF is making is isolating secular right wing Jews.  The movement would be so much stronger if it appealed to both religious AND secular Jews.  The vast majority of Jews in Israel are not religious, and that will not change anytime soon.  Shaming them does not help the cause.   

Rabbi Kahane made several speeches in which he showed that the strength of the Kahanist movement was that it was the only religious political party that had a majority of non-religious supporters. You don't need to be religious to see what Torah says will make Israel a better place.

As for right from wrong though, you can make many moral arguments as to why the Arabs can continue to live with us in Israel. If you're really smart, you can figure out that the most logical course of action with the least death is that THEY must go, but there is no secular reasoning that says that the missionaries who destroy Jewish souls and hijack the culture, and to that effect have done 100x the damage that Arabs have done, are worse and must go too. Secular people usually agree on this point, because they don't like missionaries, and don't want to hear about religion in the first place, but I've never found a secular explanation why a Jew converting 7 year olds in a park behind their parents backs to idolatry is worse than an Arab who murders them, though Torah says they're far worse.

The Kahanist position is to love all of Am Yisrael. I certainly see more logic in respecting a secular Jew than a deform one, because at least he's honest. However, the positions taken by a true Kahanist movement are ancient from a time when people saw the greater good as burning their babies alive for a better harvest for all, and just as easy as it was to see the more logical set of rules in hindsight, it will be obvious to our children what the right path is to do now, but not as clear for us, since we worship the fake Hellenized Western xtian culture, which says to be nice and is destroying us.

In this generation, the insanity of that attitude is more apparent than ever, and the Kahanist position that Hashem taught our fathers in Torah is the most logical approach, so it's no surprise that secular people like you were and are attracted to the Kahanist movement.

Anyways, don't take this as hostile, but I love these arguments, and am still waiting to loose: Can you disprove one thing in Torah (If you need examples, name any other religion, and I'll disprove it in one sentence, and 2 if doesn't claim to be a divine religion)?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge