Author Topic: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew  (Read 1746 times)

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Offline Israel Chai

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2014, 05:29:04 PM »
You need an outcast when leaders are without courage, but be warned, the owner of this site's words should be taken with a massive grain of salt, and always double check sources.

That said, the Saint Mary Jews will probably be banning Torah soon, and probably censor out more Torah readings.
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Offline Israel Chai

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2014, 05:33:13 PM »
Take, for example, his shameful attack on a heroic Chabad Rabbi http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2007/04/chabad_faction_.html
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Offline Zelhar

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2014, 06:27:55 PM »
But the sign itself is in Hebrew.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2014, 06:46:14 PM »
Their "god" is Bergoglio.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2014, 06:55:33 PM »
  Nothing new. They "banned" Hebrew or what they call modern Hebrew because it is from the "Zionists".
   They pray in Hebrew but they refer to it as "Lashon HaKodesh" (the Holy Language) which is true, but they don't like the modern Hebrew words because it is made by Zionists. For example modern words like  טלוויזיה (television) or חשמל (electricity) or other words.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2014, 11:43:22 PM »
Chashmal is originally from the Book of Ezekiel. It is the Haftarah for First Day of Shavuot.


Offline muman613

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2014, 11:46:02 PM »
Is this NK or some other renegade Satmar branch?

I know some Satmar who are not anti-Zionist and yet they are not pro-Zionist either (they seem neutral or at least in front of me).

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2014, 11:48:09 PM »
Chashmal is originally from the Book of Ezekiel. It is the Haftarah for First Day of Shavuot.

 Yea I know, but they take issue with it being used for the word "electricity" and not what it origionally meant ( think a form of angels). Come to think about it perhaps not only Satmar but I did hear that their are those who do not write "Hashmal" on the check when they pay for electricity as well.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2014, 11:52:19 PM »
Their "god" is Bergoglio.

How so? Satmar is a Jewish Chassidic dynasty which has no connection to the Vatican. Their Rabbi decided (poskined) that the time is not right for the Jews to return to the land because of an interpretation of the 'Three Vows' which I have posted and discussed numerous times on the forum. Needless to say, according to most Rabbis their interpretation is thoroughly wrong and thus their stance on the issue of Israel is incorrect. In my opinion the NK and those like them have been shown that the Vows are not binding any longer due to the Balfour declaration and the Holocaust (each of which nullifies the vows).

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2014, 11:56:56 PM »
How so? Satmar is a Jewish Chassidic dynasty which has no connection to the Vatican. Their Rabbi decided (poskined) that the time is not right for the Jews to return to the land because of an interpretation of the 'Three Vows' which I have posted and discussed numerous times on the forum. Needless to say, according to most Rabbis their interpretation is thoroughly wrong and thus their stance on the issue of Israel is incorrect. In my opinion the NK and those like them have been shown that the Vows are not binding any longer due to the Balfour declaration and the Holocaust (each of which nullifies the vows).

I had this debate, shockingly with a Cohen Lubavitcher. He said we have to still respect the deal even if the goyim break it. I told him it takes two people to make a deal, so he told me to study the Gemarra, which I did, and it says that the Jews will be hunted like deers if they do not keep the vow, clearly showing that the vow is no longer in effect, because until we recently invited the world to slaughter us, we were destroying everyone.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline muman613

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2014, 12:00:06 AM »
I had this debate, shockingly with a Cohen Lubavitcher. He said we have to still respect the deal even if the goyim break it. I told him it takes two people to make a deal, so he told me to study the Gemarra, which I did, and it says that the Jews will be hunted like deers if they do not keep the vow, clearly showing that the vow is no longer in effect, because until we recently invited the world to slaughter us, we were destroying everyone.

The vows say that if the gentiles allow us back into the land, then we can go... Either that or not to take it forcefully, but if it is given (as in the Balfour and UN resolutions) then it is ours to take again...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2014, 12:17:44 AM »
From a wikipage on the topic (although now with the talmud page I should be able to find more)...

The context of the Talmudic dialogue containing the Three Oaths is a discussion in which attempts are made to defend Rav Zeira's desire to leave Babylon and go to the Land of Israel. It begins on Ketubot 110b and continues on 111a (where the Three Oaths are plainly conveyed). The Gemara quotes R. Yossi ben R. Chanina:

ג' שבועות הללו למה אחת שלא יעלו ישראל בחומה ואחת שהשביע הקדוש ברוך הוא את ישראל שלא ימרדו באומות העולם ואחת שהשביע הקדוש ברוך הוא את אומות העולם שלא ישתעבדו בהן בישראל יותר מדאי.

"Why/What are these Three Oaths? One, that Israel should not storm the wall {RaShI interprets: forcefully}. Two, the Holy One adjured Israel not to rebel against the nations of the world. Three, the Holy One adjured the nations that they would not oppress Israel too much"."[1]



It is also important to state, as I am sure some readers may state themselves, that the midrash in question does not factor into the halachic realm. I do not believe any Jewish law is based on this midrash.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2014, 12:33:30 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Oaths

Zionist arguments that consider the Three Oaths[edit]

An overview of some of the primary claims made by Religious Zionists concerning the Three Oaths:

* The Three Oaths are an Aggadic Midrash, and therefore they are not Halakhically obligatory (Aggadic Midrashim, as opposed to Halachic Midrashim are not traditionally understood as a valid source for Halacha). Accordingly, Maimonides' Mishne Torah, the Arba'ah Turim, the Shulchan Aruch, and other halachic sources do not cite the Three Oaths or rule accordingly. They are not found there at all.

* The United Nations resolution to declare the State of Israel fulfills the first condition of the oath to not rebel against the nations. Thus, when the United Nations told the Jews to go home, it was mandatory that they do so. Just as Cyrus instructed the Jews of Babylonia to construct the Second Temple. This position is held by Eliezer Waldenberg[26] and others.

* The Three Oaths simply meant that God had decreed an exile for the Jewish people. The fact that the Jewish people have successfully returned to the Land of Israel, and that the State of Israel has survived, is evidence that the oath is void and the decree has ended.

* The wording of Maimonides in his Epistle to Yemen specifically states that the Oaths are “metaphorical” (see Maimonides above), furthermore in his Halachic work he places great value upon living in the Land of Israel, and forbids leaving it.[27]

* Although the Three Oaths were obligatory in the past, the gentiles violated their vow by excessively persecuting the Jewish people. Therefore the validity of the two other vows has been nullified. Religious Zionists point to a specific Midrash warning that if gentile nations violated this oath, then "they cause the End of Days to come prematurely".[28] This has been interpreted to mean that Israel's re-establishment would be implemented sooner than originally intended. With atrocities against Jews throughout history, and especially after The Holocaust, the Jewish people were absolved of their part of the Oaths. Those who hold this position often rely on the Shulchan Aruch which states: "two [persons] who have taken an oath to do a thing, and one of them violates the oath, the other is exempt [from it] and does not require permission."[29] As a result, the ban on mass-immigration to the Land of Israel became void,[30] and Zionism and the State of Israel arose as a direct result of the breach by gentile nations of the Oaths.

* Religious Zionists often point to Israel's seemingly miraculous survival in the numerous Arab-Israeli wars, especially the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and Six-Day War, and interpret this as the State of Israel being preserved directly by God's hand.

* The Jewish people did not return en masse to the Land of Israel, but rather through individual immigration as well as a series of five Aliyahs. Jews continue to individually immigrate to Israel today. There was never a point in history where a majority of world Jewry collectively migrated to the Land of Israel.

* It is not clearly established in either the Gemara or the Halacha what precisely would constitute permission from the nations. As such, the Balfour Declaration, San Remo conference, United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, and the League of Nations-issued Mandate for Palestine plan of July 24, 1922 is understood as representing permission and approval from the nations of the world. Accordingly, the Jewish people cannot be considered to have rebelled against the nations. This was the opinion of Rabbi Meir Simcha of Dvinsk regarding the Balfour Declaration.

* Many authorities understand the oath of "not ascending as a wall" as only including an immigration of the entire (or at least a majority of the) nation. Some of these authorities also require that this mass immigration be one of force in order for the oath to be considered violated. Among those who hold these positions are Isaiah Achron in his Piskei Ri'az,[31] Bezalel Ashkenazi in his Shittah Mekubetzet,[32] the Maharal,[33] Jonathan Eybeschutz,[34] Yisroel ben Shmuel of Shklov and students of the Vilna Gaon,[35] Meir Blumenfeld,[36] Maimonides as understood by Joel Teitelbaum.,[37] and Yonah Dov Blumberg.[38] Similary, Baruch Epstein, in his Torah Temimah, understands the oath to only include a forceful mass immigration,[39] and Ishtori Haparchi in his Kaftor Vaferach[40] understands the oath to mean immigration with intent to conquer. Isaac Leon ibn Zur in his Megillat Ester on Nachmanides also understands the oath as prohibiting conquest.[41]

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2014, 12:44:34 AM »
The creature who writes for that hideous blog is a far-left liberal who also writes for the daily forward.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/313578

Oh and very pro-gay. If Pamela Geller's site gets protested here but not this creature's site, then we have a problem.
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Offline ChabadKahanist

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2014, 02:49:30 AM »
Get the sefer Hatikufa Hagedola By HaRav Menachem Kasher,ZT"L.
HaRav Kasher totally refutes what the Satmar are saying & proves how the 3 oaths were never a halacha lmaaseh.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2014, 02:58:35 AM »
Get the sefer Hatikufa Hagedola By HaRav Menachem Kasher,ZT"L.
HaRav Kasher totally refutes what the Satmar are saying & proves how the 3 oaths were never a halacha lmaaseh.

Interesting.  Is this in Hebrew only?

Offline ChabadKahanist

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2014, 03:20:21 AM »

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: anti Zionist Satmar cult ban Hebrew
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2014, 04:03:09 AM »
How so? Satmar is a Jewish Chassidic dynasty which has no connection to the Vatican. Their Rabbi decided (poskined) that the time is not right for the Jews to return to the land because of an interpretation of the 'Three Vows' which I have posted and discussed numerous times on the forum. Needless to say, according to most Rabbis their interpretation is thoroughly wrong and thus their stance on the issue of Israel is incorrect. In my opinion the NK and those like them have been shown that the Vows are not binding any longer due to the Balfour declaration and the Holocaust (each of which nullifies the vows).

That's all good and well that the nations let us go back, but it's debatable. Binding or not binding, what the Saint Maries (and apparently 1 Chabad guy in the world) don't say is that there is a consequence in Gemarra if we don't follow the commandment. That is being killed at massive rates. Considering that outside of Israel we are being killed, and we aren't experiencing what other who tried to re-establish Israel did, clearly the vows aren't in effect, and it can be determined that the UN vote in fact was the nations allowing us to return, not that it matters though, since it says that those oaths were taken for us to be able to survive among the nations. Seeing as they were trying to exterminate us, it was clear those oaths weren't protecting us outside the land, that we wouldn't survive outside that land, and that Jews in Israel were doing a better job of surviving. Not only can you live separated from the nations in Israel, you survive better (in the case of America, soon to be much better), and seeing as Hashem made our army invincible, the onus is on the Saint Maries to prove there will be another coming of the state of Israel with an invincible army.
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