So Where did Arabs come from?

[SSN]

SSN, since you are open about rejecting the Torah, I see no point in you continuing to post here.  This is a Torah true forum of good Jews and righteous Gentiles who are proud of their Judaism and their Christianity. 

Also, I can't imagine you ever calling a moosie a religious fanatic.  But you seem to have no problem throwing that term at Jews.  You're a sicko lefty, that's for sure.

i hate religious extremists on both sides, the muslim ones outnumber the jewish ones a million to one, but still i am SECULAR AND ATHEIST, if that means i am less then human, so be it, you're not in power nor will you ever be.

the torah is a choice, i chose not to follow it just as you have, do i murder? do i not give to charity?
i just dont believe religion is a good excuse to get people killed.

mist muslims are religious fanatics, but we in the west are going to need unity in order to beat them, you are NOT unified, you have an agenda that will derail israel's long term goals and might eventually end it, and THAT is why i am here, i am voicing my opinion lisa.

next time i wouldnt call someone a sicko lefty, sitting at home barely moving a finger, judging everyone for not living according to your standard.

It's hard to decide which is worse, a self-righteous, arrogant, "enlightened" atheist, or a gun-toting, allah akhbar-ing muslim. One threatens to destroy the Earth by dissolving the Jewish people spiritually(namely you and your atheist ilk SSN, since the Torah says that if the Jews were to cease from the earth Chas Vechalila, the earth would be destroyed), and the other threatens to destroy the world physically, through force. I for one think that Atheism is a bigger threat, since at least the muslims believe in G-d, albeit they have one ridiculous idea of what He is.

you entire arguments is based on religion, you would slaughter all us hilonim if you could.
or just force us to become religious like yourself.

whose like the muslims now?

[chakma613]

SSN, since you are open about rejecting the Torah, I see no point in you continuing to post here.  This is a Torah true forum of good Jews and righteous Gentiles who are proud of their Judaism and their Christianity. 

Also, I can't imagine you ever calling a moosie a religious fanatic.  But you seem to have no problem throwing that term at Jews.  You're a sicko lefty, that's for sure.

i hate religious extremists on both sides, the muslim ones outnumber the jewish ones a million to one, but still i am SECULAR AND ATHEIST, if that means i am less then human, so be it, you're not in power nor will you ever be.

the torah is a choice, i chose not to follow it just as you have, do i murder? do i not give to charity?
i just dont believe religion is a good excuse to get people killed.

mist muslims are religious fanatics, but we in the west are going to need unity in order to beat them, you are NOT unified, you have an agenda that will derail israel's long term goals and might eventually end it, and THAT is why i am here, i am voicing my opinion lisa.

next time i wouldnt call someone a sicko lefty, sitting at home barely moving a finger, judging everyone for not living according to your standard.

It's hard to decide which is worse, a self-righteous, arrogant, "enlightened" atheist, or a gun-toting, allah akhbar-ing muslim. One threatens to destroy the Earth by dissolving the Jewish people spiritually(namely you and your atheist ilk SSN, since the Torah says that if the Jews were to cease from the earth Chas Vechalila, the earth would be destroyed), and the other threatens to destroy the world physically, through force. I for one think that Atheism is a bigger threat, since at least the muslims believe in G-d, albeit they have one ridiculous idea of what He is.

you entire arguments is based on religion, you would slaughter all us hilonim if you could.
or just force us to become religious like yourself.

whose like the muslims now?

I would kill the chilonim?? What are you basing that on? Torah? I doubt it..we have no commandment to kill people like you, on the contrary, it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah, in hopes that you will do Teshuvah. You have a very messed up idea of what Judaism is if you think otherwise.

If you knew the 6th commandment you wouldn't say such a thing. Moron.

[chakma613]

SSN, since you are open about rejecting the Torah, I see no point in you continuing to post here.  This is a Torah true forum of good Jews and righteous Gentiles who are proud of their Judaism and their Christianity. 

Also, I can't imagine you ever calling a moosie a religious fanatic.  But you seem to have no problem throwing that term at Jews.  You're a sicko lefty, that's for sure.

i hate religious extremists on both sides, the muslim ones outnumber the jewish ones a million to one, but still i am SECULAR AND ATHEIST, if that means i am less then human, so be it, you're not in power nor will you ever be.

the torah is a choice, i chose not to follow it just as you have, do i murder? do i not give to charity?
i just dont believe religion is a good excuse to get people killed.

mist muslims are religious fanatics, but we in the west are going to need unity in order to beat them, you are NOT unified, you have an agenda that will derail israel's long term goals and might eventually end it, and THAT is why i am here, i am voicing my opinion lisa.

next time i wouldnt call someone a sicko lefty, sitting at home barely moving a finger, judging everyone for not living according to your standard.

It's hard to decide which is worse, a self-righteous, arrogant, "enlightened" atheist, or a gun-toting, allah akhbar-ing muslim. One threatens to destroy the Earth by dissolving the Jewish people spiritually(namely you and your atheist ilk SSN, since the Torah says that if the Jews were to cease from the earth Chas Vechalila, the earth would be destroyed), and the other threatens to destroy the world physically, through force. I for one think that Atheism is a bigger threat, since at least the muslims believe in G-d, albeit they have one ridiculous idea of what He is.

you entire arguments is based on religion, you would slaughter all us hilonim if you could.
or just force us to become religious like yourself.

whose like the muslims now?

I would kill the chilonim?? What are you basing that on? Torah? I doubt it..we have no commandment to kill people like you, on the contrary, it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah, in hopes that you will do Teshuvah. You have a very messed up idea of what Judaism is if you think otherwise.

If you knew the 6th commandment you wouldn't say such a thing. Moron.

Also, I would not force the chilonim to become religious..they'd receive little reward if they were forced into it. Look at your beloved chiloni lifestyle and tell me how healthy it is(not to even bring up the spiritual side of it). You people have no morals, and if you do, it's only because of religion. Face facts - morality is not something we have without Torah.

[SSN]

SSN, since you are open about rejecting the Torah, I see no point in you continuing to post here.  This is a Torah true forum of good Jews and righteous Gentiles who are proud of their Judaism and their Christianity. 

Also, I can't imagine you ever calling a moosie a religious fanatic.  But you seem to have no problem throwing that term at Jews.  You're a sicko lefty, that's for sure.

i hate religious extremists on both sides, the muslim ones outnumber the jewish ones a million to one, but still i am SECULAR AND ATHEIST, if that means i am less then human, so be it, you're not in power nor will you ever be.

the torah is a choice, i chose not to follow it just as you have, do i murder? do i not give to charity?
i just dont believe religion is a good excuse to get people killed.

mist muslims are religious fanatics, but we in the west are going to need unity in order to beat them, you are NOT unified, you have an agenda that will derail israel's long term goals and might eventually end it, and THAT is why i am here, i am voicing my opinion lisa.

next time i wouldnt call someone a sicko lefty, sitting at home barely moving a finger, judging everyone for not living according to your standard.

It's hard to decide which is worse, a self-righteous, arrogant, "enlightened" atheist, or a gun-toting, allah akhbar-ing muslim. One threatens to destroy the Earth by dissolving the Jewish people spiritually(namely you and your atheist ilk SSN, since the Torah says that if the Jews were to cease from the earth Chas Vechalila, the earth would be destroyed), and the other threatens to destroy the world physically, through force. I for one think that Atheism is a bigger threat, since at least the muslims believe in G-d, albeit they have one ridiculous idea of what He is.

you entire arguments is based on religion, you would slaughter all us hilonim if you could.
or just force us to become religious like yourself.

whose like the muslims now?

I would kill the chilonim?? What are you basing that on? Torah? I doubt it..we have no commandment to kill people like you, on the contrary, it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah, in hopes that you will do Teshuvah. You have a very messed up idea of what Judaism is if you think otherwise.

If you knew the 6th commandment you wouldn't say such a thing. Moron.

Also, I would not force the chilonim to become religious..they'd receive little reward if they were forced into it. Look at your beloved chiloni lifestyle and tell me how healthy it is(not to even bring up the spiritual side of it). You people have no morals, and if you do, it's only because of religion. Face facts - morality is not something we have without Torah.

you dare attack not only my lifestyle but my morals, only because you are so ignorant you fail to see that your choices are not the only ones in this world.
"you people have no morals" yeah im sure you love hilonim...

dont pretend as if the religious community isnt riddled with crime, from sex crimes to stealing money from god- fearing people, every 2 days theres a new bastard whose convicted!
the basis to all our laws is the torah, i just dont let it take over my life like you do, i follow the basic human principles and im happy that way, so are most israelis.

THAT is why you will NEVER be in power here, you are self proclaimed martyrs with a moral high ground that enjoy preaching to others.

[Taren]

SSN, since you are open about rejecting the Torah, I see no point in you continuing to post here.  This is a Torah true forum of good Jews and righteous Gentiles who are proud of their Judaism and their Christianity. 

Also, I can't imagine you ever calling a moosie a religious fanatic.  But you seem to have no problem throwing that term at Jews.  You're a sicko lefty, that's for sure.

i hate religious extremists on both sides, the muslim ones outnumber the jewish ones a million to one, but still i am SECULAR AND ATHEIST, if that means i am less then human, so be it, you're not in power nor will you ever be.

the torah is a choice, i chose not to follow it just as you have, do i murder? do i not give to charity?
i just dont believe religion is a good excuse to get people killed.

mist muslims are religious fanatics, but we in the west are going to need unity in order to beat them, you are NOT unified, you have an agenda that will derail israel's long term goals and might eventually end it, and THAT is why i am here, i am voicing my opinion lisa.

next time i wouldnt call someone a sicko lefty, sitting at home barely moving a finger, judging everyone for not living according to your standard.

It's hard to decide which is worse, a self-righteous, arrogant, "enlightened" atheist, or a gun-toting, allah akhbar-ing muslim. One threatens to destroy the Earth by dissolving the Jewish people spiritually(namely you and your atheist ilk SSN, since the Torah says that if the Jews were to cease from the earth Chas Vechalila, the earth would be destroyed), and the other threatens to destroy the world physically, through force. I for one think that Atheism is a bigger threat, since at least the muslims believe in G-d, albeit they have one ridiculous idea of what He is.

you entire arguments is based on religion, you would slaughter all us hilonim if you could.
or just force us to become religious like yourself.

whose like the muslims now?

I would kill the chilonim?? What are you basing that on? Torah? I doubt it..we have no commandment to kill people like you, on the contrary, it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah, in hopes that you will do Teshuvah. You have a very messed up idea of what Judaism is if you think otherwise.

If you knew the 6th commandment you wouldn't say such a thing. Moron.

Also, I would not force the chilonim to become religious..they'd receive little reward if they were forced into it. Look at your beloved chiloni lifestyle and tell me how healthy it is(not to even bring up the spiritual side of it). You people have no morals, and if you do, it's only because of religion. Face facts - morality is not something we have without Torah.

Haha the typical haredi/dati lecturing about moral and lifestyle, want a list of child molesting rabanim? its well documented even though they are doing their best to hide it from the public, talking about moralls yet not having a problem with killing gays, talking about moralls while saying youre going to hang me when you come to power, talking about stonning to death, you people are just hypocrites, youre allways the bravest behind the computer screen, yet i dont see you lifting your head in Israel, because you would share a cell along with Ahmed and Muhamad.

"it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah", thats what Muslims say about Islam, grats for having another thing in common with your brothers in faith, keep your facist version of Judaism to yourself, if you want a Jewish Iran, buy a flight ticket to Iran.

Keep calling us morons, guess theres a selective law here about insults and nick naming, but who thought other wise?

[HiWarp]

i hate religious extremists on both sides, the muslim ones outnumber the jewish ones a million to one, but still i am SECULAR AND ATHEIST, if that means i am less then human, so be it, you're not in power nor will you ever be.

the torah is a choice, i chose not to follow it just as you have, do i murder? do i not give to charity?
i just dont believe religion is a good excuse to get people killed.

mist muslims are religious fanatics, but we in the west are going to need unity in order to beat them, you are NOT unified, you have an agenda that will derail israel's long term goals and might eventually end it, and THAT is why i am here, i am voicing my opinion lisa.

next time i wouldnt call someone a sicko lefty, sitting at home barely moving a finger, judging everyone for not living according to your standard.

Putting aside religious arguments and conceding that you are correct in saying that "we in the west are going to need unity in order to defeat" the Muslims, my question to you is simple.  How do you propose we go about defeating them?

[chakma613]

SSN, since you are open about rejecting the Torah, I see no point in you continuing to post here.  This is a Torah true forum of good Jews and righteous Gentiles who are proud of their Judaism and their Christianity. 

Also, I can't imagine you ever calling a moosie a religious fanatic.  But you seem to have no problem throwing that term at Jews.  You're a sicko lefty, that's for sure.

i hate religious extremists on both sides, the muslim ones outnumber the jewish ones a million to one, but still i am SECULAR AND ATHEIST, if that means i am less then human, so be it, you're not in power nor will you ever be.

the torah is a choice, i chose not to follow it just as you have, do i murder? do i not give to charity?
i just dont believe religion is a good excuse to get people killed.

mist muslims are religious fanatics, but we in the west are going to need unity in order to beat them, you are NOT unified, you have an agenda that will derail israel's long term goals and might eventually end it, and THAT is why i am here, i am voicing my opinion lisa.

next time i wouldnt call someone a sicko lefty, sitting at home barely moving a finger, judging everyone for not living according to your standard.

It's hard to decide which is worse, a self-righteous, arrogant, "enlightened" atheist, or a gun-toting, allah akhbar-ing muslim. One threatens to destroy the Earth by dissolving the Jewish people spiritually(namely you and your atheist ilk SSN, since the Torah says that if the Jews were to cease from the earth Chas Vechalila, the earth would be destroyed), and the other threatens to destroy the world physically, through force. I for one think that Atheism is a bigger threat, since at least the muslims believe in G-d, albeit they have one ridiculous idea of what He is.

you entire arguments is based on religion, you would slaughter all us hilonim if you could.
or just force us to become religious like yourself.

whose like the muslims now?

I would kill the chilonim?? What are you basing that on? Torah? I doubt it..we have no commandment to kill people like you, on the contrary, it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah, in hopes that you will do Teshuvah. You have a very messed up idea of what Judaism is if you think otherwise.

If you knew the 6th commandment you wouldn't say such a thing. Moron.

Also, I would not force the chilonim to become religious..they'd receive little reward if they were forced into it. Look at your beloved chiloni lifestyle and tell me how healthy it is(not to even bring up the spiritual side of it). You people have no morals, and if you do, it's only because of religion. Face facts - morality is not something we have without Torah.

Haha the typical haredi/dati lecturing about moral and lifestyle, want a list of child molesting rabanim? its well documented even though they are doing their best to hide it from the public, talking about moralls yet not having a problem with killing gays, talking about moralls while saying youre going to hang me when you come to power, talking about stonning to death, you people are just hypocrites, youre allways the bravest behind the computer screen, yet i dont see you lifting your head in Israel, because you would share a cell along with Ahmed and Muhamad.

"it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah", thats what Muslims say about Islam, grats for having another thing in common with your brothers in faith, keep your facist version of Judaism to yourself, if you want a Jewish Iran, buy a flight ticket to Iran.

Keep calling us morons, guess theres a selective law here about insults and nick naming, but who thought other wise?

The rabbis you speak of are NOT charedi or torah-jews, they are scum, who will get theirs from Hashem. Not that this makes any difference to you, since you would never understand the charedi reason for not making a big stink about them. We have a belief that G-d sorts things out without our involvement, that he punishes the wicked without us acting on his behalf(sometimes). Also, if Jews are not close to Torah, they will not have any clue how to live. The fact that atheists and chilonim are so full of themsleves  and think they have a handle on truth does not prove that they are right.

[cjd]

SSN my understanding on the small details of the Israel situation only goes so far however I read through you posts and am left wondering on how you would expect Israel to survive as a homeland for Jews. A majority secular Israel would in the span of 50 years or so become so intermingled with the Arab population that it would cease to exist as we know it. Am I wrong on this?

[Taren]

SSN, since you are open about rejecting the Torah, I see no point in you continuing to post here.  This is a Torah true forum of good Jews and righteous Gentiles who are proud of their Judaism and their Christianity. 

Also, I can't imagine you ever calling a moosie a religious fanatic.  But you seem to have no problem throwing that term at Jews.  You're a sicko lefty, that's for sure.

i hate religious extremists on both sides, the muslim ones outnumber the jewish ones a million to one, but still i am SECULAR AND ATHEIST, if that means i am less then human, so be it, you're not in power nor will you ever be.

the torah is a choice, i chose not to follow it just as you have, do i murder? do i not give to charity?
i just dont believe religion is a good excuse to get people killed.

mist muslims are religious fanatics, but we in the west are going to need unity in order to beat them, you are NOT unified, you have an agenda that will derail israel's long term goals and might eventually end it, and THAT is why i am here, i am voicing my opinion lisa.

next time i wouldnt call someone a sicko lefty, sitting at home barely moving a finger, judging everyone for not living according to your standard.

It's hard to decide which is worse, a self-righteous, arrogant, "enlightened" atheist, or a gun-toting, allah akhbar-ing muslim. One threatens to destroy the Earth by dissolving the Jewish people spiritually(namely you and your atheist ilk SSN, since the Torah says that if the Jews were to cease from the earth Chas Vechalila, the earth would be destroyed), and the other threatens to destroy the world physically, through force. I for one think that Atheism is a bigger threat, since at least the muslims believe in G-d, albeit they have one ridiculous idea of what He is.

you entire arguments is based on religion, you would slaughter all us hilonim if you could.
or just force us to become religious like yourself.

whose like the muslims now?

I would kill the chilonim?? What are you basing that on? Torah? I doubt it..we have no commandment to kill people like you, on the contrary, it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah, in hopes that you will do Teshuvah. You have a very messed up idea of what Judaism is if you think otherwise.

If you knew the 6th commandment you wouldn't say such a thing. Moron.

Also, I would not force the chilonim to become religious..they'd receive little reward if they were forced into it. Look at your beloved chiloni lifestyle and tell me how healthy it is(not to even bring up the spiritual side of it). You people have no morals, and if you do, it's only because of religion. Face facts - morality is not something we have without Torah.

Haha the typical haredi/dati lecturing about moral and lifestyle, want a list of child molesting rabanim? its well documented even though they are doing their best to hide it from the public, talking about moralls yet not having a problem with killing gays, talking about moralls while saying youre going to hang me when you come to power, talking about stonning to death, you people are just hypocrites, youre allways the bravest behind the computer screen, yet i dont see you lifting your head in Israel, because you would share a cell along with Ahmed and Muhamad.

"it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah", thats what Muslims say about Islam, grats for having another thing in common with your brothers in faith, keep your facist version of Judaism to yourself, if you want a Jewish Iran, buy a flight ticket to Iran.

Keep calling us morons, guess theres a selective law here about insults and nick naming, but who thought other wise?

The rabbis you speak of are NOT charedi or torah-jews, they are scum, who will get theirs from Hashem. Not that this makes any difference to you, since you would never understand the charedi reason for not making a big stink about them. We have a belief that G-d sorts things out without our involvement, that he punishes the wicked without us acting on his behalf(sometimes). Also, if Jews are not close to Torah, they will not have any clue how to live. The fact that atheists and chilonim are so full of themsleves  and think they have a handle on truth does not prove that they are right.

They are rabbis, some have been for decades, they are well learn in Judaism, but they just like to molest their students in the Yeshivot, the reason they dont make a biy "stink" about them is because they want to keep using the "secular-immorality" card, but they cant stop the thousands of Israelis who become seculars, more like driven away to secularism because of their treatment in the "moral" religious side of the Israeli society, nice try.

Chilonim are full of themselves because they are the majority, they are the ones who mostly built this state, they are the ones who were here before gush emunim showed its ugly face after 67, oh and it was them who actually won wars, we can see the success after 73,82,2000 and 2006 when you let the superior religious aspect infect the army and society, great success.

[SSN]

SSN my understanding on the small details of the Israel situation only goes so far however I read through you posts and am left wondering on how you would expect Israel to survive as a homeland for Jews. A majority secular Israel would in the span of 50 years or so become so intermingled with the Arab population that it would cease to exist as we know it. Am I wrong on this?

i disagree as the arab majority (or half) refuse to support israel and are traitors, the rest  do not intermingle "too much" theres still a distance between the two cultures, a friendly distance.
i have an arab mechanic, nice guy and he loves israel, hes a muslim.
israel's primary role is to harbor jews, let them live without being persecuted.
israel should have an ethnic identity, but a halacha state is the exact opposite extreme of a "medinat kol ezraheya" like the USA.
i support a secular state with several religious laws, and religious areas where more laws are enforced so that religious ppl can live without feeling alienated.
jewish population is for the better part not shrinking, i agree there are many improvements needed such as getting rid of 50% of the traitors in this country but were not in danger demographically speaking other then that.


thank you for replying with dignity and like a civilized human being.

[chakma613]

SSN, since you are open about rejecting the Torah, I see no point in you continuing to post here.  This is a Torah true forum of good Jews and righteous Gentiles who are proud of their Judaism and their Christianity. 

Also, I can't imagine you ever calling a moosie a religious fanatic.  But you seem to have no problem throwing that term at Jews.  You're a sicko lefty, that's for sure.

i hate religious extremists on both sides, the muslim ones outnumber the jewish ones a million to one, but still i am SECULAR AND ATHEIST, if that means i am less then human, so be it, you're not in power nor will you ever be.

the torah is a choice, i chose not to follow it just as you have, do i murder? do i not give to charity?
i just dont believe religion is a good excuse to get people killed.

mist muslims are religious fanatics, but we in the west are going to need unity in order to beat them, you are NOT unified, you have an agenda that will derail israel's long term goals and might eventually end it, and THAT is why i am here, i am voicing my opinion lisa.

next time i wouldnt call someone a sicko lefty, sitting at home barely moving a finger, judging everyone for not living according to your standard.

It's hard to decide which is worse, a self-righteous, arrogant, "enlightened" atheist, or a gun-toting, allah akhbar-ing muslim. One threatens to destroy the Earth by dissolving the Jewish people spiritually(namely you and your atheist ilk SSN, since the Torah says that if the Jews were to cease from the earth Chas Vechalila, the earth would be destroyed), and the other threatens to destroy the world physically, through force. I for one think that Atheism is a bigger threat, since at least the muslims believe in G-d, albeit they have one ridiculous idea of what He is.

you entire arguments is based on religion, you would slaughter all us hilonim if you could.
or just force us to become religious like yourself.

whose like the muslims now?

I would kill the chilonim?? What are you basing that on? Torah? I doubt it..we have no commandment to kill people like you, on the contrary, it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah, in hopes that you will do Teshuvah. You have a very messed up idea of what Judaism is if you think otherwise.

If you knew the 6th commandment you wouldn't say such a thing. Moron.

Also, I would not force the chilonim to become religious..they'd receive little reward if they were forced into it. Look at your beloved chiloni lifestyle and tell me how healthy it is(not to even bring up the spiritual side of it). You people have no morals, and if you do, it's only because of religion. Face facts - morality is not something we have without Torah.

Haha the typical haredi/dati lecturing about moral and lifestyle, want a list of child molesting rabanim? its well documented even though they are doing their best to hide it from the public, talking about moralls yet not having a problem with killing gays, talking about moralls while saying youre going to hang me when you come to power, talking about stonning to death, you people are just hypocrites, youre allways the bravest behind the computer screen, yet i dont see you lifting your head in Israel, because you would share a cell along with Ahmed and Muhamad.

"it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah", thats what Muslims say about Islam, grats for having another thing in common with your brothers in faith, keep your facist version of Judaism to yourself, if you want a Jewish Iran, buy a flight ticket to Iran.

Keep calling us morons, guess theres a selective law here about insults and nick naming, but who thought other wise?

The rabbis you speak of are NOT charedi or torah-jews, they are scum, who will get theirs from Hashem. Not that this makes any difference to you, since you would never understand the charedi reason for not making a big stink about them. We have a belief that G-d sorts things out without our involvement, that he punishes the wicked without us acting on his behalf(sometimes). Also, if Jews are not close to Torah, they will not have any clue how to live. The fact that atheists and chilonim are so full of themsleves  and think they have a handle on truth does not prove that they are right.

They are rabbis, some have been for decades, they are well learn in Judaism, but they just like to molest their students in the Yeshivot, the reason they dont make a biy "stink" about them is because they want to keep using the "secular-immorality" card, but they cant stop the thousands of Israelis who become seculars, more like driven away to secularism because of their treatment in the "moral" religious side of the Israeli society, nice try.

Chilonim are full of themselves because they are the majority, they are the ones who mostly built this state, they are the ones who were here before gush emunim showed its ugly face after 67, oh and it was them who actually won wars, we can see the success after 73,82,2000 and 2006 when you let the superior religious aspect infect the army and society, great success.

It would be a waste of time to tell you that it is because of Hashem that we win wars, not because of chilonim..think whatever you will. The reason why we do not expose the rabbis who molest children in the secular media is because of the complicated halachot involved regarding Lashon harah..also, the Gemara says not to make known the sins of a learned person, for he will be punished greatly by Hashem, more so than we could deal out in this world, though I wouldn't think tjhat you would understand that at all.

[SSN]

SSN, since you are open about rejecting the Torah, I see no point in you continuing to post here.  This is a Torah true forum of good Jews and righteous Gentiles who are proud of their Judaism and their Christianity. 

Also, I can't imagine you ever calling a moosie a religious fanatic.  But you seem to have no problem throwing that term at Jews.  You're a sicko lefty, that's for sure.

i hate religious extremists on both sides, the muslim ones outnumber the jewish ones a million to one, but still i am SECULAR AND ATHEIST, if that means i am less then human, so be it, you're not in power nor will you ever be.

the torah is a choice, i chose not to follow it just as you have, do i murder? do i not give to charity?
i just dont believe religion is a good excuse to get people killed.

mist muslims are religious fanatics, but we in the west are going to need unity in order to beat them, you are NOT unified, you have an agenda that will derail israel's long term goals and might eventually end it, and THAT is why i am here, i am voicing my opinion lisa.

next time i wouldnt call someone a sicko lefty, sitting at home barely moving a finger, judging everyone for not living according to your standard.

It's hard to decide which is worse, a self-righteous, arrogant, "enlightened" atheist, or a gun-toting, allah akhbar-ing muslim. One threatens to destroy the Earth by dissolving the Jewish people spiritually(namely you and your atheist ilk SSN, since the Torah says that if the Jews were to cease from the earth Chas Vechalila, the earth would be destroyed), and the other threatens to destroy the world physically, through force. I for one think that Atheism is a bigger threat, since at least the muslims believe in G-d, albeit they have one ridiculous idea of what He is.

you entire arguments is based on religion, you would slaughter all us hilonim if you could.
or just force us to become religious like yourself.

whose like the muslims now?

I would kill the chilonim?? What are you basing that on? Torah? I doubt it..we have no commandment to kill people like you, on the contrary, it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah, in hopes that you will do Teshuvah. You have a very messed up idea of what Judaism is if you think otherwise.

If you knew the 6th commandment you wouldn't say such a thing. Moron.

Also, I would not force the chilonim to become religious..they'd receive little reward if they were forced into it. Look at your beloved chiloni lifestyle and tell me how healthy it is(not to even bring up the spiritual side of it). You people have no morals, and if you do, it's only because of religion. Face facts - morality is not something we have without Torah.

Haha the typical haredi/dati lecturing about moral and lifestyle, want a list of child molesting rabanim? its well documented even though they are doing their best to hide it from the public, talking about moralls yet not having a problem with killing gays, talking about moralls while saying youre going to hang me when you come to power, talking about stonning to death, you people are just hypocrites, youre allways the bravest behind the computer screen, yet i dont see you lifting your head in Israel, because you would share a cell along with Ahmed and Muhamad.

"it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah", thats what Muslims say about Islam, grats for having another thing in common with your brothers in faith, keep your facist version of Judaism to yourself, if you want a Jewish Iran, buy a flight ticket to Iran.

Keep calling us morons, guess theres a selective law here about insults and nick naming, but who thought other wise?

The rabbis you speak of are NOT charedi or torah-jews, they are scum, who will get theirs from Hashem. Not that this makes any difference to you, since you would never understand the charedi reason for not making a big stink about them. We have a belief that G-d sorts things out without our involvement, that he punishes the wicked without us acting on his behalf(sometimes). Also, if Jews are not close to Torah, they will not have any clue how to live. The fact that atheists and chilonim are so full of themsleves  and think they have a handle on truth does not prove that they are right.

They are rabbis, some have been for decades, they are well learn in Judaism, but they just like to molest their students in the Yeshivot, the reason they dont make a biy "stink" about them is because they want to keep using the "secular-immorality" card, but they cant stop the thousands of Israelis who become seculars, more like driven away to secularism because of their treatment in the "moral" religious side of the Israeli society, nice try.

Chilonim are full of themselves because they are the majority, they are the ones who mostly built this state, they are the ones who were here before gush emunim showed its ugly face after 67, oh and it was them who actually won wars, we can see the success after 73,82,2000 and 2006 when you let the superior religious aspect infect the army and society, great success.

It would be a waste of time to tell you that it is because of Hashem that we win wars, not because of chilonim..think whatever you will. The reason why we do not expose the rabbis who molest children in the secular media is because of the complicated halachot involved regarding Lashon harah..also, the Gemara says not to make known the sins of a learned person, for he will be punished greatly by Hashem, more so than we could deal out in this world, though I wouldn't think tjhat you would understand that at all.

we win wars because us REAL ISRAELIS go out and die for our country, not because of you praying weally weally hard before you go to bed.

[chakma613]

SSN, since you are open about rejecting the Torah, I see no point in you continuing to post here.  This is a Torah true forum of good Jews and righteous Gentiles who are proud of their Judaism and their Christianity. 

Also, I can't imagine you ever calling a moosie a religious fanatic.  But you seem to have no problem throwing that term at Jews.  You're a sicko lefty, that's for sure.

i hate religious extremists on both sides, the muslim ones outnumber the jewish ones a million to one, but still i am SECULAR AND ATHEIST, if that means i am less then human, so be it, you're not in power nor will you ever be.

the torah is a choice, i chose not to follow it just as you have, do i murder? do i not give to charity?
i just dont believe religion is a good excuse to get people killed.

mist muslims are religious fanatics, but we in the west are going to need unity in order to beat them, you are NOT unified, you have an agenda that will derail israel's long term goals and might eventually end it, and THAT is why i am here, i am voicing my opinion lisa.

next time i wouldnt call someone a sicko lefty, sitting at home barely moving a finger, judging everyone for not living according to your standard.

It's hard to decide which is worse, a self-righteous, arrogant, "enlightened" atheist, or a gun-toting, allah akhbar-ing muslim. One threatens to destroy the Earth by dissolving the Jewish people spiritually(namely you and your atheist ilk SSN, since the Torah says that if the Jews were to cease from the earth Chas Vechalila, the earth would be destroyed), and the other threatens to destroy the world physically, through force. I for one think that Atheism is a bigger threat, since at least the muslims believe in G-d, albeit they have one ridiculous idea of what He is.

you entire arguments is based on religion, you would slaughter all us hilonim if you could.
or just force us to become religious like yourself.

whose like the muslims now?

I would kill the chilonim?? What are you basing that on? Torah? I doubt it..we have no commandment to kill people like you, on the contrary, it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah, in hopes that you will do Teshuvah. You have a very messed up idea of what Judaism is if you think otherwise.

If you knew the 6th commandment you wouldn't say such a thing. Moron.

Also, I would not force the chilonim to become religious..they'd receive little reward if they were forced into it. Look at your beloved chiloni lifestyle and tell me how healthy it is(not to even bring up the spiritual side of it). You people have no morals, and if you do, it's only because of religion. Face facts - morality is not something we have without Torah.

Haha the typical haredi/dati lecturing about moral and lifestyle, want a list of child molesting rabanim? its well documented even though they are doing their best to hide it from the public, talking about moralls yet not having a problem with killing gays, talking about moralls while saying youre going to hang me when you come to power, talking about stonning to death, you people are just hypocrites, youre allways the bravest behind the computer screen, yet i dont see you lifting your head in Israel, because you would share a cell along with Ahmed and Muhamad.

"it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah", thats what Muslims say about Islam, grats for having another thing in common with your brothers in faith, keep your facist version of Judaism to yourself, if you want a Jewish Iran, buy a flight ticket to Iran.

Keep calling us morons, guess theres a selective law here about insults and nick naming, but who thought other wise?

The rabbis you speak of are NOT charedi or torah-jews, they are scum, who will get theirs from Hashem. Not that this makes any difference to you, since you would never understand the charedi reason for not making a big stink about them. We have a belief that G-d sorts things out without our involvement, that he punishes the wicked without us acting on his behalf(sometimes). Also, if Jews are not close to Torah, they will not have any clue how to live. The fact that atheists and chilonim are so full of themsleves  and think they have a handle on truth does not prove that they are right.

They are rabbis, some have been for decades, they are well learn in Judaism, but they just like to molest their students in the Yeshivot, the reason they dont make a biy "stink" about them is because they want to keep using the "secular-immorality" card, but they cant stop the thousands of Israelis who become seculars, more like driven away to secularism because of their treatment in the "moral" religious side of the Israeli society, nice try.

Chilonim are full of themselves because they are the majority, they are the ones who mostly built this state, they are the ones who were here before gush emunim showed its ugly face after 67, oh and it was them who actually won wars, we can see the success after 73,82,2000 and 2006 when you let the superior religious aspect infect the army and society, great success.

It would be a waste of time to tell you that it is because of Hashem that we win wars, not because of chilonim..think whatever you will. The reason why we do not expose the rabbis who molest children in the secular media is because of the complicated halachot involved regarding Lashon harah..also, the Gemara says not to make known the sins of a learned person, for he will be punished greatly by Hashem, more so than we could deal out in this world, though I wouldn't think tjhat you would understand that at all.

we win wars because us REAL ISRAELIS go out and die for our country, not because of you praying weally weally hard before you go to bed.

You didn't even bother answering my point about the ideas of religious jews regarding the rabbi molestation issue, since it's obviously beyond your pathetic scope. You have no idea what real davening is, if you did, you would know that we pray 3 times a day..another example of your ignorance. Israel wins wars because Hashem wants it to, plain and simple. Why do you think the Torah says that certain people shouldn't go to war? (i.e., newlyweds, people who dont want to out of fear of their sin, etc..), when according to your view, they would stand a greater chance of victory if these people did fight? Biblical Israel won many wars with this idea, and they suffered far fewer casualties than modern Israel..wonder why. Also, we won the six-day war, and the independence war which even historians agree was miraculous..but no, it's because of brute strength, which Israel lacked in both these wars. Actually, when israel's military was built up more in the yom kippur war, we were nearly beaten, explain that?

[SSN]

SSN, since you are open about rejecting the Torah, I see no point in you continuing to post here.  This is a Torah true forum of good Jews and righteous Gentiles who are proud of their Judaism and their Christianity. 

Also, I can't imagine you ever calling a moosie a religious fanatic.  But you seem to have no problem throwing that term at Jews.  You're a sicko lefty, that's for sure.

i hate religious extremists on both sides, the muslim ones outnumber the jewish ones a million to one, but still i am SECULAR AND ATHEIST, if that means i am less then human, so be it, you're not in power nor will you ever be.

the torah is a choice, i chose not to follow it just as you have, do i murder? do i not give to charity?
i just dont believe religion is a good excuse to get people killed.

mist muslims are religious fanatics, but we in the west are going to need unity in order to beat them, you are NOT unified, you have an agenda that will derail israel's long term goals and might eventually end it, and THAT is why i am here, i am voicing my opinion lisa.

next time i wouldnt call someone a sicko lefty, sitting at home barely moving a finger, judging everyone for not living according to your standard.

It's hard to decide which is worse, a self-righteous, arrogant, "enlightened" atheist, or a gun-toting, allah akhbar-ing muslim. One threatens to destroy the Earth by dissolving the Jewish people spiritually(namely you and your atheist ilk SSN, since the Torah says that if the Jews were to cease from the earth Chas Vechalila, the earth would be destroyed), and the other threatens to destroy the world physically, through force. I for one think that Atheism is a bigger threat, since at least the muslims believe in G-d, albeit they have one ridiculous idea of what He is.

you entire arguments is based on religion, you would slaughter all us hilonim if you could.
or just force us to become religious like yourself.

whose like the muslims now?

I would kill the chilonim?? What are you basing that on? Torah? I doubt it..we have no commandment to kill people like you, on the contrary, it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah, in hopes that you will do Teshuvah. You have a very messed up idea of what Judaism is if you think otherwise.

If you knew the 6th commandment you wouldn't say such a thing. Moron.

Also, I would not force the chilonim to become religious..they'd receive little reward if they were forced into it. Look at your beloved chiloni lifestyle and tell me how healthy it is(not to even bring up the spiritual side of it). You people have no morals, and if you do, it's only because of religion. Face facts - morality is not something we have without Torah.

Haha the typical haredi/dati lecturing about moral and lifestyle, want a list of child molesting rabanim? its well documented even though they are doing their best to hide it from the public, talking about moralls yet not having a problem with killing gays, talking about moralls while saying youre going to hang me when you come to power, talking about stonning to death, you people are just hypocrites, youre allways the bravest behind the computer screen, yet i dont see you lifting your head in Israel, because you would share a cell along with Ahmed and Muhamad.

"it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah", thats what Muslims say about Islam, grats for having another thing in common with your brothers in faith, keep your facist version of Judaism to yourself, if you want a Jewish Iran, buy a flight ticket to Iran.

Keep calling us morons, guess theres a selective law here about insults and nick naming, but who thought other wise?

The rabbis you speak of are NOT charedi or torah-jews, they are scum, who will get theirs from Hashem. Not that this makes any difference to you, since you would never understand the charedi reason for not making a big stink about them. We have a belief that G-d sorts things out without our involvement, that he punishes the wicked without us acting on his behalf(sometimes). Also, if Jews are not close to Torah, they will not have any clue how to live. The fact that atheists and chilonim are so full of themsleves  and think they have a handle on truth does not prove that they are right.

They are rabbis, some have been for decades, they are well learn in Judaism, but they just like to molest their students in the Yeshivot, the reason they dont make a biy "stink" about them is because they want to keep using the "secular-immorality" card, but they cant stop the thousands of Israelis who become seculars, more like driven away to secularism because of their treatment in the "moral" religious side of the Israeli society, nice try.

Chilonim are full of themselves because they are the majority, they are the ones who mostly built this state, they are the ones who were here before gush emunim showed its ugly face after 67, oh and it was them who actually won wars, we can see the success after 73,82,2000 and 2006 when you let the superior religious aspect infect the army and society, great success.

It would be a waste of time to tell you that it is because of Hashem that we win wars, not because of chilonim..think whatever you will. The reason why we do not expose the rabbis who molest children in the secular media is because of the complicated halachot involved regarding Lashon harah..also, the Gemara says not to make known the sins of a learned person, for he will be punished greatly by Hashem, more so than we could deal out in this world, though I wouldn't think tjhat you would understand that at all.

we win wars because us REAL ISRAELIS go out and die for our country, not because of you praying weally weally hard before you go to bed.

You didn't even bother answering my point about the ideas of religious jews regarding the rabbi molestation issue, since it's obviously beyond your pathetic scope. You have no idea what real davening is, if you did, you would know that we pray 3 times a day..another example of your ignorance. Israel wins wars because Hashem wants it to, plain and simple. Why do you think the Torah says that certain people shouldn't go to war? (i.e., newlyweds, people who dont want to out of fear of their sin, etc..), when according to your view, they would stand a greater chance of victory if these people did fight? Biblical Israel won many wars with this idea, and they suffered far fewer casualties than modern Israel..wonder why. Also, we won the six-day war, and the independence war which even historians agree was miraculous..but no, it's because of brute strength, which Israel lacked in both these wars. Actually, when israel's military was built up more in the yom kippur war, we were nearly beaten, explain that?

if you read any book you will see its hard working men and women and our genius generals and officers that won these wars, but i know you dont ever read anything other then the torah.

and im pretty sure taren destroyed your rabbi molesting argument, which is based solely on your god theory.

[HiWarp]

i hate religious extremists on both sides, the muslim ones outnumber the jewish ones a million to one, but still i am SECULAR AND ATHEIST, if that means i am less then human, so be it, you're not in power nor will you ever be.

the torah is a choice, i chose not to follow it just as you have, do i murder? do i not give to charity?
i just dont believe religion is a good excuse to get people killed.

mist muslims are religious fanatics, but we in the west are going to need unity in order to beat them, you are NOT unified, you have an agenda that will derail israel's long term goals and might eventually end it, and THAT is why i am here, i am voicing my opinion lisa.

next time i wouldnt call someone a sicko lefty, sitting at home barely moving a finger, judging everyone for not living according to your standard.

Putting aside religious arguments and conceding that you are correct in saying that "we in the west are going to need unity in order to defeat" the Muslims, my question to you is simple.  How do you propose we go about defeating them?

SSN,
Why do you ignore my question?  How do you propose the west defeats Muslims?

[Taren]

SSN, since you are open about rejecting the Torah, I see no point in you continuing to post here.  This is a Torah true forum of good Jews and righteous Gentiles who are proud of their Judaism and their Christianity. 

Also, I can't imagine you ever calling a moosie a religious fanatic.  But you seem to have no problem throwing that term at Jews.  You're a sicko lefty, that's for sure.

i hate religious extremists on both sides, the muslim ones outnumber the jewish ones a million to one, but still i am SECULAR AND ATHEIST, if that means i am less then human, so be it, you're not in power nor will you ever be.

the torah is a choice, i chose not to follow it just as you have, do i murder? do i not give to charity?
i just dont believe religion is a good excuse to get people killed.

mist muslims are religious fanatics, but we in the west are going to need unity in order to beat them, you are NOT unified, you have an agenda that will derail israel's long term goals and might eventually end it, and THAT is why i am here, i am voicing my opinion lisa.

next time i wouldnt call someone a sicko lefty, sitting at home barely moving a finger, judging everyone for not living according to your standard.

It's hard to decide which is worse, a self-righteous, arrogant, "enlightened" atheist, or a gun-toting, allah akhbar-ing muslim. One threatens to destroy the Earth by dissolving the Jewish people spiritually(namely you and your atheist ilk SSN, since the Torah says that if the Jews were to cease from the earth Chas Vechalila, the earth would be destroyed), and the other threatens to destroy the world physically, through force. I for one think that Atheism is a bigger threat, since at least the muslims believe in G-d, albeit they have one ridiculous idea of what He is.

you entire arguments is based on religion, you would slaughter all us hilonim if you could.
or just force us to become religious like yourself.

whose like the muslims now?

I would kill the chilonim?? What are you basing that on? Torah? I doubt it..we have no commandment to kill people like you, on the contrary, it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah, in hopes that you will do Teshuvah. You have a very messed up idea of what Judaism is if you think otherwise.

If you knew the 6th commandment you wouldn't say such a thing. Moron.

Also, I would not force the chilonim to become religious..they'd receive little reward if they were forced into it. Look at your beloved chiloni lifestyle and tell me how healthy it is(not to even bring up the spiritual side of it). You people have no morals, and if you do, it's only because of religion. Face facts - morality is not something we have without Torah.

Haha the typical haredi/dati lecturing about moral and lifestyle, want a list of child molesting rabanim? its well documented even though they are doing their best to hide it from the public, talking about moralls yet not having a problem with killing gays, talking about moralls while saying youre going to hang me when you come to power, talking about stonning to death, you people are just hypocrites, youre allways the bravest behind the computer screen, yet i dont see you lifting your head in Israel, because you would share a cell along with Ahmed and Muhamad.

"it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah", thats what Muslims say about Islam, grats for having another thing in common with your brothers in faith, keep your facist version of Judaism to yourself, if you want a Jewish Iran, buy a flight ticket to Iran.

Keep calling us morons, guess theres a selective law here about insults and nick naming, but who thought other wise?

The rabbis you speak of are NOT charedi or torah-jews, they are scum, who will get theirs from Hashem. Not that this makes any difference to you, since you would never understand the charedi reason for not making a big stink about them. We have a belief that G-d sorts things out without our involvement, that he punishes the wicked without us acting on his behalf(sometimes). Also, if Jews are not close to Torah, they will not have any clue how to live. The fact that atheists and chilonim are so full of themsleves  and think they have a handle on truth does not prove that they are right.

They are rabbis, some have been for decades, they are well learn in Judaism, but they just like to molest their students in the Yeshivot, the reason they dont make a biy "stink" about them is because they want to keep using the "secular-immorality" card, but they cant stop the thousands of Israelis who become seculars, more like driven away to secularism because of their treatment in the "moral" religious side of the Israeli society, nice try.

Chilonim are full of themselves because they are the majority, they are the ones who mostly built this state, they are the ones who were here before gush emunim showed its ugly face after 67, oh and it was them who actually won wars, we can see the success after 73,82,2000 and 2006 when you let the superior religious aspect infect the army and society, great success.

It would be a waste of time to tell you that it is because of Hashem that we win wars, not because of chilonim..think whatever you will. The reason why we do not expose the rabbis who molest children in the secular media is because of the complicated halachot involved regarding Lashon harah..also, the Gemara says not to make known the sins of a learned person, for he will be punished greatly by Hashem, more so than we could deal out in this world, though I wouldn't think tjhat you would understand that at all.

we win wars because us REAL ISRAELIS go out and die for our country, not because of you praying weally weally hard before you go to bed.

You didn't even bother answering my point about the ideas of religious jews regarding the rabbi molestation issue, since it's obviously beyond your pathetic scope. You have no idea what real davening is, if you did, you would know that we pray 3 times a day..another example of your ignorance. Israel wins wars because Hashem wants it to, plain and simple. Why do you think the Torah says that certain people shouldn't go to war? (i.e., newlyweds, people who dont want to out of fear of their sin, etc..), when according to your view, they would stand a greater chance of victory if these people did fight? Biblical Israel won many wars with this idea, and they suffered far fewer casualties than modern Israel..wonder why. Also, we won the six-day war, and the independence war which even historians agree was miraculous..but no, it's because of brute strength, which Israel lacked in both these wars. Actually, when israel's military was built up more in the yom kippur war, we were nearly beaten, explain that?

Oh dont tell me, Israel failed in 2006 because of Gush Katif, which is quite surprising because the percent of the oranges in the army was as high as ever, but hey, ashem decided to play his own personal battle field computer game, but i guess he decided to switch sides this time? Hezballah, the meanning of the word means Gods Party, they also claim their god is on their side, they also claim they are right about it, whats the difference between you and them? nada.

[chakma613]

SSN, since you are open about rejecting the Torah, I see no point in you continuing to post here.  This is a Torah true forum of good Jews and righteous Gentiles who are proud of their Judaism and their Christianity. 

Also, I can't imagine you ever calling a moosie a religious fanatic.  But you seem to have no problem throwing that term at Jews.  You're a sicko lefty, that's for sure.

i hate religious extremists on both sides, the muslim ones outnumber the jewish ones a million to one, but still i am SECULAR AND ATHEIST, if that means i am less then human, so be it, you're not in power nor will you ever be.

the torah is a choice, i chose not to follow it just as you have, do i murder? do i not give to charity?
i just dont believe religion is a good excuse to get people killed.

mist muslims are religious fanatics, but we in the west are going to need unity in order to beat them, you are NOT unified, you have an agenda that will derail israel's long term goals and might eventually end it, and THAT is why i am here, i am voicing my opinion lisa.

next time i wouldnt call someone a sicko lefty, sitting at home barely moving a finger, judging everyone for not living according to your standard.

It's hard to decide which is worse, a self-righteous, arrogant, "enlightened" atheist, or a gun-toting, allah akhbar-ing muslim. One threatens to destroy the Earth by dissolving the Jewish people spiritually(namely you and your atheist ilk SSN, since the Torah says that if the Jews were to cease from the earth Chas Vechalila, the earth would be destroyed), and the other threatens to destroy the world physically, through force. I for one think that Atheism is a bigger threat, since at least the muslims believe in G-d, albeit they have one ridiculous idea of what He is.

you entire arguments is based on religion, you would slaughter all us hilonim if you could.
or just force us to become religious like yourself.

whose like the muslims now?

I would kill the chilonim?? What are you basing that on? Torah? I doubt it..we have no commandment to kill people like you, on the contrary, it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah, in hopes that you will do Teshuvah. You have a very messed up idea of what Judaism is if you think otherwise.

If you knew the 6th commandment you wouldn't say such a thing. Moron.

Also, I would not force the chilonim to become religious..they'd receive little reward if they were forced into it. Look at your beloved chiloni lifestyle and tell me how healthy it is(not to even bring up the spiritual side of it). You people have no morals, and if you do, it's only because of religion. Face facts - morality is not something we have without Torah.

Haha the typical haredi/dati lecturing about moral and lifestyle, want a list of child molesting rabanim? its well documented even though they are doing their best to hide it from the public, talking about moralls yet not having a problem with killing gays, talking about moralls while saying youre going to hang me when you come to power, talking about stonning to death, you people are just hypocrites, youre allways the bravest behind the computer screen, yet i dont see you lifting your head in Israel, because you would share a cell along with Ahmed and Muhamad.

"it is our duty to bring you closer to Torah", thats what Muslims say about Islam, grats for having another thing in common with your brothers in faith, keep your facist version of Judaism to yourself, if you want a Jewish Iran, buy a flight ticket to Iran.

Keep calling us morons, guess theres a selective law here about insults and nick naming, but who thought other wise?

The rabbis you speak of are NOT charedi or torah-jews, they are scum, who will get theirs from Hashem. Not that this makes any difference to you, since you would never understand the charedi reason for not making a big stink about them. We have a belief that G-d sorts things out without our involvement, that he punishes the wicked without us acting on his behalf(sometimes). Also, if Jews are not close to Torah, they will not have any clue how to live. The fact that atheists and chilonim are so full of themsleves  and think they have a handle on truth does not prove that they are right.

They are rabbis, some have been for decades, they are well learn in Judaism, but they just like to molest their students in the Yeshivot, the reason they dont make a biy "stink" about them is because they want to keep using the "secular-immorality" card, but they cant stop the thousands of Israelis who become seculars, more like driven away to secularism because of their treatment in the "moral" religious side of the Israeli society, nice try.

Chilonim are full of themselves because they are the majority, they are the ones who mostly built this state, they are the ones who were here before gush emunim showed its ugly face after 67, oh and it was them who actually won wars, we can see the success after 73,82,2000 and 2006 when you let the superior religious aspect infect the army and society, great success.

It would be a waste of time to tell you that it is because of Hashem that we win wars, not because of chilonim..think whatever you will. The reason why we do not expose the rabbis who molest children in the secular media is because of the complicated halachot involved regarding Lashon harah..also, the Gemara says not to make known the sins of a learned person, for he will be punished greatly by Hashem, more so than we could deal out in this world, though I wouldn't think tjhat you would understand that at all.

we win wars because us REAL ISRAELIS go out and die for our country, not because of you praying weally weally hard before you go to bed.

You didn't even bother answering my point about the ideas of religious jews regarding the rabbi molestation issue, since it's obviously beyond your pathetic scope. You have no idea what real davening is, if you did, you would know that we pray 3 times a day..another example of your ignorance. Israel wins wars because Hashem wants it to, plain and simple. Why do you think the Torah says that certain people shouldn't go to war? (i.e., newlyweds, people who dont want to out of fear of their sin, etc..), when according to your view, they would stand a greater chance of victory if these people did fight? Biblical Israel won many wars with this idea, and they suffered far fewer casualties than modern Israel..wonder why. Also, we won the six-day war, and the independence war which even historians agree was miraculous..but no, it's because of brute strength, which Israel lacked in both these wars. Actually, when israel's military was built up more in the yom kippur war, we were nearly beaten, explain that?

Oh dont tell me, Israel failed in 2006 because of Gush Katif, which is quite surprising because the percent of the oranges in the army was as high as ever, but hey, ashem decided to play his own personal battle field computer game, but i guess he decided to switch sides this time? Hezballah, the meanning of the word means Gods Party, they also claim their G-d is on their side, they also claim they are right about it, whats the difference between you and them? nada.

G-d doesn't take sides, that's anthropomorphism, he does that he does, and maybe if fewer people like you existed, we may have won that war. You anthropomorphize g-d a lot..i thought that was against your so called "enlightened" agnosticism?

[Taren]

Fewer people like me existed? but there are millions of me around, what are you going to do, exterminate them? we may have won the war if billions going to settlements would have gone to the infantry soldiers for equipment, or maybe soldiers who had to baby sit settlers 24/7 and didnt have time to actually train for combat, maybe things would have been better.

"You anthropomorphize g-d a lot..i thought that was against your so called "enlightened" agnosticism?"

Then you have no clue what an agnostic is, shocking...

[chakma613]

G-d doesn't take sides, that's anthropomorphism, he does that he does, and maybe if fewer people like you existed, we may have won that war. You anthropomorphize g-d a lot..i thought that was against your so called "enlightened" agnosticism?

Fewer people like me existed? but there are millions of me around, what are you going to do, exterminate them? we may have won the war if billions going to settlements would have gone to the infantry soldiers for equipment, or maybe soldiers who had to baby sit settlers 24/7 and didnt have time to actually train for combat, maybe things would have been better.

"You anthropomorphize g-d a lot..i thought that was against your so called "enlightened" agnosticism?"

Then you have no clue what an agnostic is, shocking...

Agnostics typically teach that if g-d exists, he is so beyond fathoming that he is not like a man at all. And you claim to be one of them..something tells me you're just confused, and that you latched on to the first idea of G-d that doesn't require any responsiblity whatsoever that you saw.

When I said what I said about people like you, I meant that if the Jews had greater merit, then we maybe would not have suffered the way we did, that your kefirah and your actions that you do as a result of it are dangerous to the klal. Extermination has no grounds in Torah, i don't know why you would think such a thing.

[SSN]

taren id reply to this convo but im laughing too hard at this guy...

[chakma613]

taren id reply to this convo but im laughing too hard at this guy...

I'd laugh at you if it weren't for the remorse I feel for you and others like you, who are so deeply rooted in secularism and are so anti-torah that you deny truths held dear to the Jewish people for millenia, under the guise of intelligence and free-thinking. I would venture that some frum jew [censored] you off when you were younger, or you got a bad image of frum jews from israeli media.

[SSN]

taren id reply to this convo but im laughing too hard at this guy...

I'd laugh at you if it weren't for the remorse I feel for you and others like you, who are so deeply rooted in secularism and are so anti-torah that you deny truths held dear to the Jewish people for millenia, under the guise of intelligence and free-thinking. I would venture that some frum jew [censored] you off when you were younger, or you got a bad image of frum jews from israeli media.

im not anti torah at all, im against sacrificing people for it and worshiping it with zeal, im basically anti- you.

[chakma613]

taren id reply to this convo but im laughing too hard at this guy...

I'd laugh at you if it weren't for the remorse I feel for you and others like you, who are so deeply rooted in secularism and are so anti-torah that you deny truths held dear to the Jewish people for millenia, under the guise of intelligence and free-thinking. I would venture that some frum jew [censored] you off when you were younger, or you got a bad image of frum jews from israeli media.

im not anti torah at all, im against sacrificing people for it and worshiping it with zeal, im basically anti- you.

I want to sacrifice people? I don't worship torah, i worship g-d..big difference.

[Taren]

G-d doesn't take sides, that's anthropomorphism, he does that he does, and maybe if fewer people like you existed, we may have won that war. You anthropomorphize g-d a lot..i thought that was against your so called "enlightened" agnosticism?

Fewer people like me existed? but there are millions of me around, what are you going to do, exterminate them? we may have won the war if billions going to settlements would have gone to the infantry soldiers for equipment, or maybe soldiers who had to baby sit settlers 24/7 and didnt have time to actually train for combat, maybe things would have been better.

"You anthropomorphize g-d a lot..i thought that was against your so called "enlightened" agnosticism?"

Then you have no clue what an agnostic is, shocking...

Agnostics typically teach that if g-d exists, he is so beyond fathoming that he is not like a man at all. And you claim to be one of them..something tells me you're just confused, and that you latched on to the first idea of G-d that doesn't require any responsiblity whatsoever that you saw.

When I said what I said about people like you, I meant that if the Jews had greater merit, then we maybe would not have suffered the way we did, that your kefirah and your actions that you do as a result of it are dangerous to the klal. Extermination has no grounds in Torah, i don't know why you would think such a thing.

Agnostics typically is defined as a person who is open to the concept of a god or gods, but not a spesific one, there for i can be open to the idea YOUR god exists, just as i am open to the idea an Indian god exists... etc. etc.

"then we maybe would not have suffered the way we did", how typical, blame me for 2000 years of hardship, and not the god who promised you other wise, you need a scape goat so your belief wont fade away, the scapegoat just happens to be me.

"Extermination has no grounds in Torah", thats disputed, but since i am not an expert you can enlighten me about Amalek.

[SSN]

taren id reply to this convo but im laughing too hard at this guy...

I'd laugh at you if it weren't for the remorse I feel for you and others like you, who are so deeply rooted in secularism and are so anti-torah that you deny truths held dear to the Jewish people for millenia, under the guise of intelligence and free-thinking. I would venture that some frum jew [censored] you off when you were younger, or you got a bad image of frum jews from israeli media.

im not anti torah at all, im against sacrificing people for it and worshiping it with zeal, im basically anti- you.

I want to sacrifice people? I don't worship torah, i worship g-d..big difference.

yes you sacrifice people for the torah, and how do you know you worship god? did he tell you?