Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left

[Lubab]

Ok guys. I missed you all. Some will hate me for this post. That's ok. I left the forum a long time ago and I think it was clear at the time to people I was beginning to espouse a world view very different from JTF and hence the split.

My views on Israell elieve it or not are still up for grabs. But some of the information I've run across in my travels has me leaning very far to the left. And I'm going to just share a few points as to what that is all about and I would like to be corrected if I am wrong. But I've seen quite a few right wingers lose debates on youtube on these particular points.

Point #1
I do feedings to the needy overseas. Non Jews. And we teach the Noahide laws. When I survey the world  I can't help but see that there is a huge humaniterian crisis in Gaza. These are the Arabs you hate. And the Arabs who hate you.

As a Jew doing Noahide work I do not judge people on their beliefs. We simply feed those who need feeding and the beliefs will hopefully come around later just like Avaraham Avinus used to do. Eat first, even if you are worshiping idols we'll talk religion later.

Therefore I would like to, and plan to help with the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Little kids need water. We'll give it to them. i think you all know it's bad over there. I think you also all know that the vast majority of people killed in these conflicts and hurt by these conflicts are NOT in uniform and NOT interested in fighting. Yet they suffer. And to my eyes, that's human suffering and we always should help human suffering whether the human hates us or not that's irrelevant to me. Will they hate Jews MORE if a Jew gives their children water?

We shall see. But from prior experiences in other countries, although it's must harder to reach them, even the Muslims build an appreciation.

Point #2

Is Israel really in so much danger?

When I was with JTF I believed that israel is in great danger. they are surrounded by enemies from all sides who want to push them into the sea, and have said they wanted to do so. And tried to do so several times.

With more reading and viewing I started to see this from a different perspective.

One certain fact we can all agree on. Is Israel is more powerful than it lets on.

It was ILLEGAL to talk about the fact that Israel had nukes for decades.

they have the nukes. they have one of the best militaries. one of the best intelligence agenices. I've dealt now for a while with intellence agents and I asked, and was told by all of them, that Israel has the capability to wipe out all the terrorist groups in a day....

They are extremely powerful. and in a way maybe more powerful than the US because for some really hard to understand reason the USA is giving FOREIGN AID. I Israel. We're feeding dying kids in India. And money is going for Israel  who already has a good militatry for an even better one.

Israel has more power than it lets on. and doesn't USE the power. and that's the problem

in reality with the arabs that they call palestinains..in gaza...they actually are more like david and we are more like goliath. that's at a practical level between those two parties

as to the other arab countries....Israel...behidn the scenes i believe has them covered very well. some in the state deparment have said that even during the wars, even they they wanted blood..israel's survival was no where near as stake.

because like i said. if they want to. they can kick serous arse.

it's just that they dont' want to. and i think that can be traced back to sick minded people in the governent and people BEHIND the government who actually LIKE the fighting and want to keep it going.

and then

point #3

is what they call the "occupation". the source of the conflict

i have heard people say...that their grandfathers have said....that before the Jews started coming over.

the indiginous jews and the indiginous arabs used to be like brothers and babysit each other's kids.

what if that's true people? can you disprove it?

we don't want to face it . but it is a fact. i'm not talknig about the state. i'm talking about the whole movement of jews into the land starting from the 1910s...when it started the vast vast majorty of the people in the region were arabs and not jews.

and they did have some stores and houses and land . and those houses and stores were taken away and destoryed. appparently Hebrew U is build on a former arab settlment.

there's an organinzation built just to try to stop bulldozing of arab homes because it went on a lot them and goes on a lot now.

so maybe the lefties have a point. when the new jews came. that's when the conflits started if you take someones' land maybe that breeds a lot of hate that wsn't there before.

i bet if you and i had started israel we would not have bred such resenmtne. but i believe the same sick minded people in charge now were in charge then and did everything in a sick antagonistic way.

i personally now belive it  may be a  waste of time to focus on left and right and the knesset if big corrupt evil families like the rothchilds are going to keep doing things in such a sick way.

i don't blame any regular jews for the mistreatment or creating humanitnirea crisis. i blame i belive a few people at the top (perez is a mason btw)
 
anyway. go ahead and attack and where i'm wrong i'm happy to be shown i'm wrong.


Why would a country HIDE its power so much?

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

[censored] YOU     You feel more for your fellow idol-worshippers than the Jewish nation!
 
 Sure, let the Arabs bomb Israel after all Israel is much stronger then them so that makes it ookay!!!

  And about your so-called teaching "Noahide laws", stop with the [censored]. You are just missionizing and trying to get the acceptance of others. Xtianity part 2 !!!

- Avraham also went to war against the 4 Kings because they captured Lot. He went to war and killed them when necessary because they were part of the "Israel" (or the pre-Israel family of Hebrews) and it was his duty to go to war to protect his brothers!
 

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

"so maybe the lefties have a point. when the new jews came. that's when the conflits started if you take someones' land maybe that breeds a lot of hate that wsn't there before. "

 No they don't. Their was Arab/Muslim persecution of Jews throughout the ages. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Muhammed killed Jews in the Arabian peninsula. You can claim that large Jews returning to Eress Yisrael in some ways reignited their hatred of Jews, but that is only because of their jealousy and FEAR of Jews returning back, taking over the land, rebuilding the Beit Hamikdash- the ULTIMATE KIDDUSH HASHEM. They FEAR that because that makes their whole claim of Islam replacing the "old religions" false. Judaism is back and alive and the Prophecies returning. Of-course that rekindles their hatred motivated from FEAR and from Envy. Israel is strong, smart, successful. They are stupid, backward, uneducated and full of hatred and envy.

 You wish to perpetuate the Hillul Hashem and Jews being downtrodden at the mercy of our enemies. Just look at what happened in history to Jews and in fact look at what is happened right now to minorities under Arab control!

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

  Also about your claim of the ones dyeing "not being in uniform". That is [censored] as well. Either way it doesn't even matter. If you claim to be "Leshem shemayim" and as if they are innocent then why did they elect Hamas? Why their polls show they support the murder of Jews? Their government is evil, it is against us and they all have the din of Rodfim. Just like the Germans during WW2 and Amalek and the Egyptians at the sea (even the righteous among them drowned)  and the town(or city) of Schehem they are all responsible because they are in a state of war with us. 
 + If you teach the Noahide laws or even knew them you would know that they have to make courts and bring the guilty to trial. The Arabs in Gaza do not. In fact the even encourage them and support them ad are in a state of war against Israel. They do deserve to get what they want to do to us.

[angryChineseKahanist]

May allah bless you.
Just curious, in #1, do the Arabs like you more now that you are giving them water?

[Lisa]

http://www.quora.com/What-were-Arab-Jewish-relations-like-in-Palestine-before-1948

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Lubab,

You are too smart for your own good. Really. That's not an insult, but a statement of fact.

[Lisa]

So Lubab, how *should* the  modern state of Israel have ben created?

Do you still consider yourself a zionist? 

[edu]

Lubab when one deals with outreach and teshuva he still has an obligation, even if he is like Avraham Avinu, not to distort the Torah, especially on Eretz Yisrael (the Land of Israel).
excerpt from http://www.vilnagaon.org/book/yosef.htm

As a proof that G-d does not endorse "Land for Peace", I will quote a translation of the words of the Rashbam on the verses in the book of Genesis. There Rashbam explains what brought G-d to command Avraham (Abraham) to bind Yitzchak (Isaac) for a burnt offering. [ Just before Avraham was about to slaughter his son Yitzchak, he received a command to offer a ram as a burnt offering on the Temple Mount, in place of his son. ]
Now here are the words of the Rashbam (to Genesis 22:1):

(1) Vayhi ahar ha-d'varim ha'elle - And it came to pass after these events:
Wherever the phrase ahar ha-d'varim ha'elle is found, the context is linked to whatever comes before it. "After these events" where Avram killed the kings, The Holy One Blessed be He, said to him: "Do not fear, Avram".
"And it came to pass after these events" when Yitzhak was born, Avraham was told etc. that Betu'el fathered Rivka.
Similarly, "after these events" where Mordechai informed on Bigtan and Teresh, King Ahashverosh raised up Haman who wanted to have Mordechai put to death, but the fact that Mordechai had saved the king's life helped him here, and it was Haman who was hanged. Here, too, after the events when Avraham concluded a pact with Avimelech, obligating the descendants of both men, and gave him seven lambs [as a token of the pact], the Almighty was angry with Avraham for doing so, for behold, the land of the P'lishtim (Philistines) had already been given to Avraham; and also in (the book of) Yehoshua (Joshua), lots were used to divide the cities of the five P'lishtim leaders, being included within the boundaries of the land of Israel and the Holy One Blessed be He commanded, regarding them, do not not let even a single soul survive. Then the L-rd put Avraham to the test, harassed him and caused him sorrow, as is written: "has He tested you with suffering you are unable to remain silent" (Job 4:3, Rashbam to Gen. 19:11 ); " and for their having tested G-d[Hashem]" (Exod. 17:7); Massa - trial - um'riva -and argument (also Exodus 17:7); "examine me, O G-d[Hashem], and test me" (Ps. 26:2).

In other words: "You became haughty because of the son I have given you - to conclude a pact between you and between their children.
Now go and offer him up as a burnt-offering, and see what will come of your pact!"

And afterwards I have found something similar in the midrash of Sh'muel:

"And the ark of Hashem remained in the land of the P'lishtim for seven months". It was written [concerning Avraham's oath]: "Take from my hand the seven lambs".
The Holy One Blessed be He said to him: "You gave him seven lambs?

[I swear] by your life, his descendants will wage seven wars against your descendants and defeat them".
Another interpretation: "By your life, his descendants will put to death seven righteous men of your descendants, viz., Shimshon (Samson), Hofni, Pinchas, Shaul (Saul), and his three sons".
An alternative interpretation: "By your life, his descendants will destroy seven Temple Sanctuaries, namely: the tent of Meeting, Gilgal, Nov, and Shilo; Giv'on and the two permanent Temples [of Jerusalem]."
Yet another interpretation: "[By your life], the Ark will be passed back and forth amongst the P'lishtim for seven months."

Rashbam concludes what does the Hebrew word "Nissa" in Genesis 22:1 connotate. He answers, harassed (namely, that G-d harassed Avraham after the Peace Treaty with Avimelech).

[ChabadKahanist]

I suggest you talk to a mashpia pronto.
Liberalism flies in the face of Judaism
I am all for teaching the 7 Mitzvos Bnai Noach but charity starts at home & your own comes first.
There is no mitzvah to aid in any way those that want to kill & maim you.
I suggest that you should talk to one of the Zirkind brothers or to one of the Shem Tovs they can straighten your sorry ass out!!!

Ok guys. I missed you all. Some will hate me for this post. That's ok. I left the forum a long time ago and I think it was clear at the time to people I was beginning to espouse a world view very different from JTF and hence the split.

My views on Israell elieve it or not are still up for grabs. But some of the information I've run across in my travels has me leaning very far to the left. And I'm going to just share a few points as to what that is all about and I would like to be corrected if I am wrong. But I've seen quite a few right wingers lose debates on youtube on these particular points.

Point #1
I do feedings to the needy overseas. Non Jews. And we teach the Noahide laws. When I survey the world  I can't help but see that there is a huge humaniterian crisis in Gaza. These are the Arabs you hate. And the Arabs who hate you.

As a Jew doing Noahide work I do not judge people on their beliefs. We simply feed those who need feeding and the beliefs will hopefully come around later just like Avaraham Avinus used to do. Eat first, even if you are worshiping idols we'll talk religion later.

Therefore I would like to, and plan to help with the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Little kids need water. We'll give it to them. i think you all know it's bad over there. I think you also all know that the vast majority of people killed in these conflicts and hurt by these conflicts are NOT in uniform and NOT interested in fighting. Yet they suffer. And to my eyes, that's human suffering and we always should help human suffering whether the human hates us or not that's irrelevant to me. Will they hate Jews MORE if a Jew gives their children water?

We shall see. But from prior experiences in other countries, although it's must harder to reach them, even the Muslims build an appreciation.

Point #2

Is Israel really in so much danger?

When I was with JTF I believed that israel is in great danger. they are surrounded by enemies from all sides who want to push them into the sea, and have said they wanted to do so. And tried to do so several times.

With more reading and viewing I started to see this from a different perspective.

One certain fact we can all agree on. Is Israel is more powerful than it lets on.

It was ILLEGAL to talk about the fact that Israel had nukes for decades.

they have the nukes. they have one of the best militaries. one of the best intelligence agenices. I've dealt now for a while with intellence agents and I asked, and was told by all of them, that Israel has the capability to wipe out all the terrorist groups in a day....

They are extremely powerful. and in a way maybe more powerful than the US because for some really hard to understand reason the USA is giving FOREIGN AID. I Israel. We're feeding dying kids in India. And money is going for Israel  who already has a good militatry for an even better one.

Israel has more power than it lets on. and doesn't USE the power. and that's the problem

in reality with the arabs that they call palestinains..in gaza...they actually are more like david and we are more like goliath. that's at a practical level between those two parties

as to the other arab countries....Israel...behidn the scenes i believe has them covered very well. some in the state deparment have said that even during the wars, even they they wanted blood..israel's survival was no where near as stake.

because like i said. if they want to. they can kick serous arse.

it's just that they dont' want to. and i think that can be traced back to sick minded people in the governent and people BEHIND the government who actually LIKE the fighting and want to keep it going.

and then

point #3

is what they call the "occupation". the source of the conflict

i have heard people say...that their grandfathers have said....that before the Jews started coming over.

the indiginous jews and the indiginous arabs used to be like brothers and babysit each other's kids.

what if that's true people? can you disprove it?

we don't want to face it . but it is a fact. i'm not talknig about the state. i'm talking about the whole movement of jews into the land starting from the 1910s...when it started the vast vast majorty of the people in the region were arabs and not jews.

and they did have some stores and houses and land . and those houses and stores were taken away and destoryed. appparently Hebrew U is build on a former arab settlment.

there's an organinzation built just to try to stop bulldozing of arab homes because it went on a lot them and goes on a lot now.

so maybe the lefties have a point. when the new jews came. that's when the conflits started if you take someones' land maybe that breeds a lot of hate that wsn't there before.

i bet if you and i had started israel we would not have bred such resenmtne. but i believe the same sick minded people in charge now were in charge then and did everything in a sick antagonistic way.

i personally now belive it  may be a  waste of time to focus on left and right and the knesset if big corrupt evil families like the rothchilds are going to keep doing things in such a sick way.

i don't blame any regular jews for the mistreatment or creating humanitnirea crisis. i blame i belive a few people at the top (perez is a mason btw)
 
anyway. go ahead and attack and where i'm wrong i'm happy to be shown i'm wrong.


Why would a country HIDE its power so much?

[Yehudayaakov]

I left the forum a long time ago

Welcome back but why are you coming back to the forum, you didn't give reasons for you to resume posting .

Ok guys. I missed you all.

doubtful

Some will hate me for this post. That's ok.

That's what you want? maybe that s the motive you returning to the forum!

I do feedings to the needy overseas. Non Jews. And we teach the Noahide laws. When I survey the world  I can't help but see that there is a huge humaniterian crisis in Gaza. These are the Arabs you hate. And the Arabs who hate you.

As a Jew doing Noahide work I do not judge people on their beliefs. We simply feed those who need feeding and the beliefs will hopefully come around later just like Avaraham Avinus used to do. Eat first, even if you are worshiping idols we'll talk religion later.

Therefore I would like to, and plan to help with the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Little kids need water. We'll give it to them. i think you all know it's bad over there.

A Jew doing good deeds with your brethren would look better in your cv, Jewish children are suffering way more than those you are helping in the area where water shortage don't exist, there are over 50% children in the south who suffer psychological wound not attended, you should go to pipi's palace in the whorehouse parliament to tell him to end the suffering his ilk have unleashed on Israel's south.

[Zelhar]

He is so smart? he sounds like a fool to me.

Lubab,

You are too smart for your own good. Really. That's not an insult, but a statement of fact.

[syyuge]

Muslamics can not be supported on any pretext whether twisted or untwisted.

[cjd]

Ok guys. I missed you all. Some will hate me for this post. That's ok. I left the forum a long time ago and I think it was clear at the time to people I was beginning to espouse a world view very different from JTF and hence the split.

My views on Israell elieve it or not are still up for grabs. But some of the information I've run across in my travels has me leaning very far to the left. And I'm going to just share a few points as to what that is all about and I would like to be corrected if I am wrong. But I've seen quite a few right wingers lose debates on youtube on these particular points.

Have mercy ... Lubab... Lubab....I was slightly happy to see your post at first however after all this time your still crazy as a June bug in the month of July     Why even come back to JTF  and post drivel like this and make everyone that remembers you despise you more than they already do... Have fun giving water and food to the arabs in my opinion  I would be very careful around people like that... They will thank you one moment  and have no problem stoning or chopping your head off the next... I am not even going to get into the proselytizing aspect of your post or debating your crazy political viewpoints... You were a hopeless case years back and it seems you are still going in the wrong direction today.

[mord]

Did someone hack lubab account or did he lose his mind?Do you ever look at those animals in gaza they're not starving most are morbidly overweight pigs.I bet an endocrinologist could become a millionaire there treating all the diabetics in gaza

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Point #1
I do feedings to the needy overseas. Non Jews. And we teach the Noahide laws. When I survey the world  I can't help but see that there is a huge humaniterian crisis in Gaza. These are the Arabs you hate. And the Arabs who hate you.

As a Jew doing Noahide work I do not judge people on their beliefs.

That's very stupid and misguided.  And it's an ethical parameter you invented yourself, which is surely not consistent with Torah.  So you are not just 'leaning left' - you are leaning away from the Morality of Torah and adopting the morality of secular ethics or in this case self-invented ethics.   

You are feeding hungry nazis.   Hungry nazis who once well-fed, will murder you and your family  (And larger family of Israeli Jews).

We simply feed those who need feeding and the beliefs will hopefully come around later just like Avaraham Avinus used to do. Eat first, even if you are worshiping idols we'll talk religion later.   

Abraham proselytized all his guests.  Where did you get it from that he "talked religion later?"  You made that up.  With you, be honest, there is no later.  You are just feeding your precious gazan children and that's it.  You don't expect any sort of change in their behavior or belief set.     And you don't even demand that of them!  That is called "The soft bigotry of low expectations" - a racist point of view (which is ubiquitous on the left).

And I highly doubt Abraham reached out to murderers. (another point you completely invented).   Idol worshipers yes - where do you get it from that he reached out to murderers and common criminals whom he knew were murderers and common criminals?



You were  a 9/11 truther last time you were here.  That discredits you as a nut.   This is consistent with someone who buys into the propaganda that there is a "crisis" in gaza and that you should help.        The so-called "crisis" is self-made and self-manufactured.    They are a socially inept people who punish themselves because they think it will eventually hurt Jews.  And this is the people you want to help in their self-destructive behavior?   So ultimately, by feeding this propaganda machine, by condoning their behavior and giving sustenance to it, you are participating in harming Jews.

[Zelhar]

I think the funniest part in Lubab's post is when he blames "The Rothchilds", and the "mason" Perez (Shimon Peres). Poor Shimon "Perez", is there any way of conceding land and capitulating to Arabs and anti-semites in general he hadn't tried yet? As for "The Rothchilds"- none of them is even Jewish any more. They are practically a clan of spoiled inbreds living off the past fame of their name. Marrying equally infamous sluts and publicity whores to keep their game going.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

He is so smart? he sounds like a fool to me.

His intellect has caused him to seek and question everything--normally a good trait, but he took it overboard and started questioning the basic fundamentals of life and reality and now he is in the place he is in. He reminds me of a friend I used to have who was a brilliant Christian theologian and philosopher, a real gem. So thorough and complete was his seeking of knowledge and wisdom in all things that he wound up converting to Buddhism.

A person with a lower IQ would not go down these paths; they would be "safer".

[Binyamin Yisrael]

So Lubab, how *should* the  modern state of Israel have ben created?

Do you still consider yourself a zionist?

Chabad Jews are not Zionists. They support the Land of Israel but don't consider themselves Zionists because they don't believe the State of Israel is the beginning of the Redemption. In practice however, they are more Zionist than the Israeli government (which is not hard) even though they wouldn't call themselves Zionists.

[edu]

This is what the Vilna Gaon has to say about the attribute of Cruelty

And this is what is meant regarding Avraham the Patriarch by the verse: Now I know that you are G-d-fearing (Gen. 22:12), i.e., by means of the precept of binding [Yitzhak for sacrifice] which Avraham performed with the characteristic of cruelty, now was completed ''Now I know'' - that Avraham is G-d-fearing - and not out of his natural disposition (he acted).

This is also what is meant by the verse to wreak vengeance upon the nations... to exact justice of them as it is written, It is glory for all his ( G-d's) pious ones (Ps. 149:7-10) - even G-d's pious ones who regularly deal in kindness (M'sillat Y'sharim, beginning of Section XIX), and yet when they wreak vengeance, it is ''glory''; - for they are not behaving in this way because of their natural disposition. (Imru No`am, B'rakhot 33) See his commentary on the Song of Songs 1:16.

[kahaneloyalist]

Point 1: This is war and during war time we fight nations not individuals. Any member of an enemy nation who does not actively defect to our side is considered an enemy. Rambam Hilchot Melachim in the Mishne Torah makes this very clear as do many other sources.

Point 2: Israel is in great danger, it has only been Hashem's hand and the valor of our soldiers fighting in His Great name that has saved us time and again. If our enemies gain nuclear weapons they will use them without mercy.

Point 3: Rebbe Nacham of Breslovs book Rebbe Nachman's Travels goes into great detail about the suffering and oppression Jews in Eretz Yisrael suffered at the hands of the Muslim rulers. The book was written in the early 1800's. That is a primary source that Jews were treated as dirt under Islamic rule before there was a modern Zionist movement.

I daven that you Lubab do teshuva and return to your people.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Point 1: This is war and during war time we fight nations not individuals. Any member of an enemy nation who does not actively defect to our side is considered an enemy. Rambam Hilchot Melachim in the Mishne Torah makes this very clear as do many other sources.

Point 2: Israel is in great danger, it has only been Hashem's hand and the valor of our soldiers fighting in His Great name that has saved us time and again. If our enemies gain nuclear weapons they will use them without mercy.

Point 3: Rebbe Nacham of Breslovs book Rebbe Nachman's Travels goes into great detail about the suffering and oppression Jews in Eretz Yisrael suffered at the hands of the Muslim rulers. The book was written in the early 1800's. That is a primary source that Jews were treated as dirt under Islamic rule before there was a modern Zionist movement.

I daven that you Lubab do teshuva and return to your people.

I agree with everything you wrote except what is bolded. I would argue that it has been Hashem alone. Yes Israel has had some heroic and very skilled soldiers but let's face it, they were hopelessly outnumbered. Israel's victories on the battlefield were by miraculous, not human, agency. Combine that with the fact that today the IDF is a complete joke that is fighting patriotic Jewish dissidents more than it is the Arab Nazi enemy, and it is obvious that the only reason why tiny Israel continues to exist is the Lord.

[Yehudayaakov]

It's never seen ever in history of man where a country such as the israeli authority inflict cruelty over its population as shown in Luba's story with many like him working in the Israeli society, a country where traitor are protected and those who try to stop them treated as criminal by the complicit israeli media.

[angryChineseKahanist]

He's a smart fool who needs to be corrected.
His heart is good but in the wrong place.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

Lubab, how sad.

You left the forum because we did not agree with the Alex Jones anti-Semitic conspiracy theories that you were peddling. I see in your writing that you still believe in this insanity.

Now you defend the Arab Muslim Nazis who have exterminated tens of thousands of Jews, who have tried to perpetrate a holocaust against us for over 100 years now, and who openly promise to finish Hitler's job. You call these Nazi mass butchers "bnei Noach". If they could, the Arabs would wipe out every single Jew and every single non-Muslim on the face of the earth.

Kohelet Rabbah 7:16: “Those who are kind to the cruel end up being cruel to the kind”.

Why do you use the Rebbe's picture when everything you stand for goes against the Rebbe's teachings? The Rebbe was against any compromise in dealing with the Arab enemies of Israel. Even suggesting concessions to the enemy, the Rebbe taught, leads to bloodshed, terrorism and war.

You need urgent help to get you to do tshuva.