Author Topic: Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said  (Read 6995 times)

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Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2014, 05:44:21 PM »
I think this is a rewriting of history.  But at least it's a good rewriting - an improvement over the reality.   If people will assume going forward that he was against Oslo, that is a win-win situation.

Good thing Torah wasn't about win-win politics.
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Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2014, 08:45:19 PM »
Good thing Torah wasn't about win-win politics.

I don't understand your comment.  What are you saying?

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2014, 03:48:54 AM »
I don't understand your comment.  What are you saying?

What a big chilul Hashem that Hashem made by writing the mistakes we made along with the good things, he should have just put the good things and we'd be OK. I don't know what he was thinking, but I'm not going to make that mistake.
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Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2014, 09:39:36 AM »
What a big chilul Hashem that Hashem made by writing the mistakes we made along with the good things, he should have just put the good things and we'd be OK. I don't know what he was thinking, but I'm not going to make that mistake.

WHAT?  Hashem did not ever tell us to embrace the Oslo Accords.  (And certainly He didn't write it).  In fact, the "halachic" rationale employed by those who were in favor of it was completely illogical nonsense, which was refuted by clear-thinking rabbis.   Your suggestion that because a well-known and esteemed rabbi said it means it's "from God" is a distortion of Judaism and a mistake on your part.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2015, 08:02:05 PM »
WHAT?  Hashem did not ever tell us to embrace the Oslo Accords.  (And certainly He didn't write it).  In fact, the "halachic" rationale employed by those who were in favor of it was completely illogical nonsense, which was refuted by clear-thinking rabbis.   Your suggestion that because a well-known and esteemed rabbi said it means it's "from God" is a distortion of Judaism and a mistake on your part.

One of the posts that encouraged me to leave. Clearly, I'm implying that misleading people into believing that Rav Ovadia was a saint on this issue is wrong because it's the wrong thing to do, what will happen when the truth is exposed can be dealt with, deception is bad, unless someone changed the Yom Kippur prayers.

My second post ^ is in reference to was using the logic you presented and applying it to Torah, I was talking about Hashem writing Torah, not the Oslo accords. I can test with a 14 year old to make sure these posts also pass the retard test, but as far as I can see, it's pretty easy for anyone to see I didn't didn't say Oslo was a divine directive spoken by Hashem through the lips of Rav Ovadia.
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Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2015, 08:42:35 PM »
One of the posts that encouraged me to leave. Clearly, I'm implying that misleading people into believing that Rav Ovadia was a saint on this issue is wrong because it's the wrong thing to do, what will happen when the truth is exposed can be dealt with, deception is bad, unless someone changed the Yom Kippur prayers.
 

Not everyone is going to understand what you are saying.  Sometimes what you write isn't clear.   If it's not clear or it's misunderstood, simply say so and explain what you meant.   Calling people retards for misunderstanding a cryptic comment you made is bad for this forum.

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My second post ^ is in reference to was using the logic you presented and applying it to Torah, I was talking about Hashem writing Torah, not the Oslo accords.

I still have no idea what you're talking about.   In this thread I asserted that Rabbi Yosef was wrong and used logical fallacy to defend his position.  You are "using the logic I presented" and "applying it to Torah" ?   What does that even mean?  Maybe you can specify what logic in particular you refer to?    And how you "apply it to Torah?"  As it stands now I don't understand your comments. 

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I can test with a 14 year old to make sure these posts also pass the retard test, but as far as I can see, it's pretty easy for anyone to see I didn't didn't say Oslo was a divine directive spoken by Hashem through the lips of Rav Ovadia.

Again, stop with the childish insults.

When you said this: 
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"What a big chilul Hashem that Hashem made by writing the mistakes we made along with the good things, "

I didn't know what mistakes you're talking about because this entire thread was about Rabbi Yosef's mistake in supporting Oslo.  So I thought that is the "mistakes we made" you referred to.   I still don't know what you mean.   It's ok if I didn't understand or if I misinterpreted.  You can just say so.   Why not just explain it to me?  Why must you attack and insult me?

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2015, 08:52:20 PM »
Not everyone is going to understand what you are saying.  Sometimes what you write isn't clear.   If it's not clear or it's misunderstood, simply say so and explain what you meant.   Calling people retards for misunderstanding a cryptic comment you made is bad for this forum.

I still have no idea what you're talking about.   In this thread I asserted that Rabbi Yosef was wrong and used logical fallacy to defend his position.  You are "using the logic I presented" and "applying it to Torah" ?   What does that even mean?  Maybe you can specify what logic in particular you refer to?    And how you "apply it to Torah?"  As it stands now I don't understand your comments. 

Again, stop with the childish insults.

When you said this: 
I didn't know what mistakes you're talking about because this entire thread was about Rabbi Yosef's mistake in supporting Oslo.  So I thought that is the "mistakes we made" you referred to.   I still don't know what you mean.   It's ok if I didn't understand or if I misinterpreted.  You can just say so.   Why not just explain it to me?  Why must you attack and insult me?

Retard test is an expression. It means see if anyone can figure it out.

"I think this is a rewriting of history.  But at least it's a good rewriting - an improvement over the reality.   If people will assume going forward that he was against Oslo, that is a win-win situation."

I'm saying there is no good rewriting of history, it wouldn't be good if Torah was like other religions and made all our kings and forefathers out to be people that never did one wrong thing.

"Again, stop with the childish insults." It's wise not to let anyone know anything about you, because people will use any information they have on you to insult what you say. I gotta remember not to tell anyone anything about me. Or maybe I shouldn't talk to people that are out to get me. If i was insulting you, it's because I don't like you, and if I don't like you, I don't talk to you.

bye now.
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Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2015, 10:46:43 PM »
Retard test is an expression. It means see if anyone can figure it out.

"I think this is a rewriting of history.  But at least it's a good rewriting - an improvement over the reality.   If people will assume going forward that he was against Oslo, that is a win-win situation."

I'm saying there is no good rewriting of history, it wouldn't be good if Torah was like other religions and made all our kings and forefathers out to be people that never did one wrong thing. 

Now I know what you meant because you explained it.   I don't disagree.

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"Again, stop with the childish insults." It's wise not to let anyone know anything about you, because people will use any information they have on you to insult what you say.

I haven't told you personal information.   This is another case where I really don't understand what you are saying.

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I gotta remember not to tell anyone anything about me. 
You mean like when you said... Never mind.


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Or maybe I shouldn't talk to people that are out to get me.

I'm not "out to get you" and the suggestion that I am is frankly absurd.

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If i was insulting you, it's because I don't like you, and if I don't like you, I don't talk to you.

bye now.

This comment reflects the behavior of a child which does not add value to a discussion forum.  Not only does it not add value, it diminishes the forum.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2015, 12:54:02 AM »
Now I know what you meant because you explained it.   I don't disagree.

I haven't told you personal information.   This is another case where I really don't understand what you are saying.
You mean like when you said... Never mind.


I'm not "out to get you" and the suggestion that I am is frankly absurd.

This comment reflects the behavior of a child which does not add value to a discussion forum.  Not only does it not add value, it diminishes the forum.

Lol I knew you wouldn't figure that out and that you'd prove my point. If I told you I was 30, you'd try to hurt my feelings and discredit me based on something else, but you choose to use the word child in close to 10% of your insults because you believe it will humiliate me into submission to your pathetic attempt at intellectual bullying. You're out to get whatever you can, and you lash out when you feel intellectually threatened. I'm only going to start insulting you when you start the twisted egotistical attacks on me, and I like to keep everything simple, because insults are better when you're really insulting the person, not attacking behind a phony ego veil for self-superiority.

I occasionally do not understand what some people are talking about. I either ask them about it or I do not comment on that point. You come up with the most absurd stitched-together things and then come up with the best titles that should be henceforth added to my and my childrens' names to shame us all about the horrible thing you assumed out of openly declared ignorance that I support.

If you say "explain what you mean" I will explain what I mean. If you insult me because you're frustrated that you didn't understand or because you decided I believe Rav Ovadia would wear a birthday party hat around privately, then I will not explain what I mean, I will call you a dog.
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Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2015, 01:11:54 AM »
Just realized too, you keep repeating that "it diminishes the forum" thing in your insult posts as a way to bring back up your insult that my age represents an intellectual handicap that governs and discredits everything I said or will say, because that way you show you've taught me the rules, and what I needed to stop my bad behavior (reflected in and also governing and discrediting everything I said or will say) was you, the wise and responsible one by virtue of you doing this, to tell me that I should think of the forum, and not be a selfish little boy who wouldn't explain you what I meant when you insulted me instead of asking what I meant.

People who are comfortable with the facts and righteousness of their cause do not use their age as justification for its accuracy and justness. I'm not here to pet your ego bub. Talk to me with a basic measure of respect or I'll talk to you like you're scum.
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Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2015, 01:16:23 AM »
Lol I knew you wouldn't figure that out and that you'd prove my point. If I told you I was 30, you'd try to hurt my feelings and discredit me based on something else, but you choose to use the word child in close to 10% of your insults because you believe it will humiliate me into submission to your pathetic attempt at intellectual bullying.   

Not true.  I believe you when you say that you are 30.  I would have pegged you for around 25, but I could believe 30.  A 30 year old can at times act like a child.  So could an 80 year old.

Again, I am not calling you a child, I am pointing to a specific behavior, ie
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If i was insulting you, it's because I don't like you, and if I don't like you, I don't talk to you.
which you happen to have exhibited repeatedly on the forum, where you personally insult because you feel threatened or whatever reasons you have, and I have called that behavior childish .  Because it is.  It simply is.  If you don't like someone here, too bad.  Your personal insults are not welcome nor is it mature to do so.  That is not to say you are a child, or that you are not capable of better.  On the contrary, I think you are capable of better which is what makes it frustrating that you choose to conduct yourself in this way, and also the forum itself deserves better and you make it look petty and tedious in those instances when you choose to behave this way - Again, not a tragic personality flaw or trait, just something you are doing from time to time, and you shouldn't.     
You insult, you scream and carry on, and you write long rambling curses and conspiracy theories about how other members are out to get you, when I try to diffuse the situation or work it out with you, you react by saying "I don't like to talk to u, nana nana" - How is that adult behavior?   And then when I point out how that's not productive and it's childish, you fly off the handle because I dared to say something negative toward you.  I called you a child and intellectually bullied OH NO (even though that's not at all what I'm doing)    (And follow up with more insults and profanity and conspiracy theory about superiority displays)

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I will call you a dog.

This behavior doesn't belong here.  Please get over yourself and stop feeling the need to call people dogs.   If you feel that need, simply don't express it here.   I am not the only one who thinks it's detrimental to the forum when you personally attack members.  I'm sure the mods feel the same way.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2015, 01:25:36 AM »
Just realized too, you keep repeating that "it diminishes the forum" thing in your insult posts as a way to bring back up your insult that my age represents an intellectual handicap that governs and discredits everything I said or will say,

Um no.  It's because the forum looks very embarrassing when it turns into a flame war and long rambling insulting posts with profanity.  It's not the intention of what this forum is supposed to be or what it aims to achieve.   That's the reason I say it diminishes the forum.  Because I believe it does.  It lowers the quality of the discourse here and discredits us all.   No ulterior motives, no trying to accuse you of being young or being handicapped.  I don't care how old you are, I never even believed you were young, I assumed we are not that far apart in age.   It has nothing to do with your age.  It's what I honestly believe about the forum.  Why can't you just take what I say at face value and stop trying to read something sinister into it.  Sinister about YOU.  It's not all about you.  Just a comment I believe regarding the forum.

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because that way you show you've taught me the rules, and what I needed to stop my bad behavior (reflected in and also governing and discrediting everything I said or will say) was you, the wise and responsible one by virtue of you doing this, to tell me that I should think of the forum, and not be a selfish little boy who wouldn't explain you what I meant when you insulted me instead of asking what I meant.   

What is all this stuff?

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People who are comfortable with the facts and righteousness of their cause do not use their age as justification for its accuracy and justness. I'm not here to pet your ego bub. Talk to me with a basic measure of respect or I'll talk to you like you're scum.

You have already called me scum and said far worse to me because of your perception that I disrespect you when I didn't.   Again, my age doesn't matter.   I could be 12 but if what I say has value and I can express myself in a mature way with respect for other members and participants, no one should consider my age for 1 second.   I don't get what all this animosity is about.   Talking to other (non-troll, non-haters, etc) members "like they're scum" makes the forum look really embarrassing IMO.   That is my opinion I truly believe and there is nothing additional to read into it.   

I would say that same thing no matter who on this forum made the comment you just made.   That seems to be part of the problem here.   I react to statements people make here.  That's what a forum is.   A statement can have good logic behind it, faulty logic, it can be promoting immorality or morality, it can be consistent with Torah or inconsistent with Torah.   Pointing out any of these things about a person's statement is not a personal attack on the person who said it.   We are here to argue and discuss logic and ideas, doing so is not a personal affront - why do you take it so personally if I contradict you or critique your logic?

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2015, 01:34:29 AM »
WHAT?  Hashem did not ever tell us to embrace the Oslo Accords.  (And certainly He didn't write it).  In fact, the "halachic" rationale employed by those who were in favor of it was completely illogical nonsense, which was refuted by clear-thinking rabbis.   Your suggestion that because a well-known and esteemed rabbi said it means it's "from God" is a distortion of Judaism and a mistake on your part.

Israel Chai,
Do you believe this comment was disrespect?  I don't see any disrespect or personal attack in this comment at all.   As it turns out I may have completely misinterpreted what you were saying, but I still don't see a problem with what I wrote aside from that mistake.   Based on what I thought you meant, I said you made a mistake and drew an incorrect conclusion of Judaism with the suggestion you made.   (Turns out you didn't mean what I thought you meant, and you weren't suggesting what I thought you were.  So then there was no point to my reply obviously. That's irrelevant here).  Let's pretend right now you did suggest it:  Why is saying that your suggestion is a mistake or an incorrect conclusion considered by you a personal attack or affront?  It's not.         

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2015, 02:04:00 AM »
Not true.  I believe you when you say that you are 30.  I would have pegged you for around 25, but I could believe 30.  A 30 year old can at times act like a child.  So could an 80 year old.

Again, I am not calling you a child, I am pointing to a specific behavior, ie  which you happen to have exhibited repeatedly on the forum, where you personally insult because you feel threatened or whatever reasons you have, and I have called that behavior childish .  Because it is.  It simply is.  If you don't like someone here, too bad.  Your personal insults are not welcome nor is it mature to do so.  That is not to say you are a child, or that you are not capable of better.  On the contrary, I think you are capable of better which is what makes it frustrating that you choose to conduct yourself in this way, and also the forum itself deserves better and you make it look petty and tedious in those instances when you choose to behave this way - Again, not a tragic personality flaw or trait, just something you are doing from time to time, and you shouldn't.     
You insult, you scream and carry on, and you write long rambling curses and conspiracy theories about how other members are out to get you, when I try to diffuse the situation or work it out with you, you react by saying "I don't like to talk to u, nana nana" - How is that adult behavior?   And then when I point out how that's not productive and it's childish, you fly off the handle because I dared to say something negative toward you.  I called you a child and intellectually bullied OH NO (even though that's not at all what I'm doing)    (And follow up with more insults and profanity and conspiracy theory about superiority displays)

This behavior doesn't belong here.  Please get over yourself and stop feeling the need to call people dogs.   If you feel that need, simply don't express it here.   I am not the only one who thinks it's detrimental to the forum when you personally attack members.  I'm sure the mods feel the same way.

I didn't say I was 30. And I only insulted in response to insults, but I don't make phony general insults like the behavior behind the way you expressed certain things means you as a person behave like an untrained child, I'll just call you a snarling wolf-boy, because when people insult me, it shows they deserve insults.

There's an interlude in what you wrote there that sounds like a daddy's speech to a boy before his first day of school, and then you end your condescending display of moral and intellectual superiority, while declaring your trumpeted loyalty to the forum and my personal behavioral growth in such a way as to make the most pompous British royal groan, and then follow it up with a not-so-subtle hint that I should no longer be allowed to post things on the forum or should decide not to myself, because it would be better off without me.

You aren't into really disgusting liberal ideologies, and don't use their level of logical fallacy, so these posts don't need to be three pages for a 1 minute statement to work out all the evil little twists going on behind what they want. Those types of people, I don't like, and if I do talk to them, I'll waste my day, so I stop. There are other reasons for which I will not like someone and decide that talking to them is strongly not to my benefit. "I don't like to talk to u, nana nana" - How is that adult behavior?" That is not adult behavior. That answer is set up to show that you won the argument you declared these posts now focus on, B.I.R.T. I behave like a child, because there is a correlation between not talking to people you don't like and kids not talking to their parents when they're upset, with causation obviously implied.

"And then when I point out how that's not productive and it's childish, you fly off the handle because I dared to say something negative toward you." Well I guess there is the possibility you're really slow, and you think you need to tell me watch my not behaving as you see fit based on your insults based on your missassumptions of what I say again and again, and what's necessary for me to now behave as you like is to internalize the idea of what is best for the forum, that you can and have taught me with your condescending, self-superior and repetitious "advice".

Intellectual bullying is when someone tries to say he knows better than someone else inherently, and therefore they should accept all insults as given and move on with them. You use that with a straw man accusation of me using a straw man " I called you a child and intellectually bullied OH NO" since I never said that. There were other insults, but you fight from that one because you can twist "don't insult based on assumption" into "he's hurting my feelings". You should be a lawyer for black rapists, or a gossip columnist.

Also, a conspiracy, by definition, involves more than two people, you're trying to say you don't believe that the accusation of you acting self-superior by continutally repeating "the rules" and "let me tell you what is best for the forum" are true, and I am saying this because I am a crazy person who imagines things in his mind. Of course you could say why you felt that was the best course of action, but now you get to look like the cool guy and insult me again in the same go.

I don't feel the need to call you a dog for myself, I feel the need because the only way to knock a 30 foot imaginary crown off someone's head is to smack it, and I'd like to discuss politics without your malicious personal attacks every time what I say flusters you. You keep repeating for me to leave though, was that something you did alot in the past to others too, or did that develop since I've been around?

You're a coward dog. If you have a problem with me, don't make half-insults while saying you don't understand, but you'll insult me for good measure. Go all in or all out, don't chase me with your tail between your legs.
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