Author Topic: Ramban's Approach to Noah and the Biblical Flood  (Read 1865 times)

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Offline edu

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Ramban's Approach to Noah and the Biblical Flood
« on: November 22, 2016, 03:10:55 PM »
http://blog.webyeshiva.org/ramban-on-the-torah-the-ark%E2%80%99s-size/
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God’s Instructions to Noah outline the ark’s dimensions: three hundred amot long, fifty amot wide and thirty amot high (Bereishit 6:15). Ramban (commentary on 6:19) notes that such a structure can not possibly hold the various items Noah brought aboard the ark. The animal kingdom includes a vast array of different species, some of considerable size. A pair from every species takes up an immense amount of space. Add a year’s supply of food for all those creatures and the ark as described will simply not do. Ramban explains that a miracle enabled the vessel to contain all things needed.

Ibn Ezra (commentary on 6: 16) provides an alternative solution claiming that the amot described regarding the ark are bigger than our amot since they measure the body size of Noah, a person larger than contemporary humans. Ramban rejects this approach arguing that the Torah always employs the term amot to refer to the same measure. Furthermore, If Noah and his children were physically larger, so were the animals of their time and the problem of the ark’s size remains intact.

If the ark’s mission depended upon a miracle, why did God make Noah dedicate considerable effort to building such a larger structure? Expand the miracle a bit and Noah need not work nearly as hard. Ramban explains that God wanted Noah’s contemporaries to notice his efforts, ask Noah about them, and learn about the impending deluge. Perhaps they will repent. This idea has particular resonance in light of Chazal’s portrayal of Noah as someone who did not try to save others from calamity, in sharp contrast to Avraham who prays for Sodom. According to Rambam {comment: perhaps the author meant to type Ramban but made a typing mistake}, God set up such a role for Noah but Noah was unable to achieve this goal.

Ramban also suggests a different answer. The Torah prefers to minimize the miraculous and demand mankind’s maximum input. Even when God must bend the laws of nature to ensure the world’s survival, He still asks that man give his utmost towards that goal.

This point has significant implications. Many think of Ramban as a rabbinic authority who emphasizes the miraculous component within Judaism. Ramban’s analysis of the ark clarifies that he rejects a notion of divine involvement which lessens the need for human effort and initiative. God did not create world in which He miraculously provides for all our needs. Rather, He created a world in which human striving, sometimes enhanced by divine aid, can achieve amazing results.

Rambam teaches a dual message about righteousness. The most profoundly righteous are not content with saving themselves; they also want to help others. Secondly, authentic righteousness does not simply rely on Hashem; it calls for the utmost in human effort.

Offline edu

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Re: Ramban's Approach to Noah and the Biblical Flood
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2016, 03:28:55 PM »
Given the fact that Ramban informs us that certain things associated with the flood were a miracle, then in theory, G-d could have supplied all the water needed to cover the mountains by a miracle and in theory he could have repaired the damage done by the flood afterwards, if he so desired.
On the other hand since Ramban said that G-d tried to hide as much as possible, the miracle of saving mankind and the animals by building an ark, maybe there are other aspects of the flood which G-d tried to hide.
With this in mind I saw an interesting article which might and I stress might, be one of the ways G-d tried to hide the miracle of the flood from the human observer.
In https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/jun/13/earth-may-have-underground-ocean-three-times-that-on-surface we learn there is a lot more water on our planet than once commonly believed.
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After decades of searching scientists have discovered that a vast reservoir of water, enough to fill the Earth’s oceans three times over, may be trapped hundreds of miles beneath the surface, potentially transforming our understanding of how the planet was formed.

The water is locked up in a mineral called ringwoodite about 660km (400 miles) beneath the crust of the Earth, researchers say. Geophysicist Steve Jacobsen from Northwestern University in the US co-authored the study published in the journal Science and said the discovery suggested Earth’s water may have come from within, driven to the surface by geological activity, rather than being deposited by icy comets hitting the forming planet as held by the prevailing theories.

“Geological processes on the Earth’s surface, such as earthquakes or erupting volcanoes, are an expression of what is going on inside the Earth, out of our sight,” Jacobsen said.

“I think we are finally seeing evidence for a whole-Earth water cycle, which may help explain the vast amount of liquid water on the surface of our habitable planet. Scientists have been looking for this missing deep water for decades.”

Jacobsen and his colleagues are the first to provide direct evidence that there may be water in an area of the Earth’s mantle known as the transition zone. They based their findings on a study of a vast underground region extending across most of the interior of the US.

Ringwoodite acts like a sponge due to a crystal structure that makes it attract hydrogen and trap water.
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If just 1% of the weight of mantle rock located in the transition zone was water it would be equivalent to nearly three times the amount of water in our oceans, Jacobsen said.

The study used data from the USArray, a network of seismometers across the US that measure the vibrations of earthquakes, combined with Jacobsen’s lab experiments on rocks simulating the high pressures found more than 600km underground.

It produced evidence that melting and movement of rock in the transition zone – hundreds of kilometres down, between the upper and lower mantles – led to a process where water could become fused and trapped in the rock.

The discovery is remarkable because most melting in the mantle was previously thought to occur at a much shallower distance, about 80km below the Earth’s surface.

Jacobsen told the New Scientist that the hidden water might also act as a buffer for the oceans on the surface, explaining why they have stayed the same size for millions of years. "If [the stored water] wasn't there, it would be on the surface of the Earth, and mountaintops would be the only land poking out," he said.

Offline edu

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Re: Ramban's Approach to Noah and the Biblical Flood
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2016, 03:38:45 PM »
The Chabad translation of Breishit/Genesis 7:11 states:
11
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In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on this day, all the springs of the great deep were split, and the windows of the heavens opened up.
If and I stress if you accept that the main source of the flood water came from deep underground, this idea could explain why the verse starts out talking about the great deep being split and only afterwards stresses the waters from "the windows of heaven".

In any case Judaism does not require someone to accept one particular scenario concerning the flood.
You could understand the text in a different way and be a "Kosher Jew".

Offline Tony Rubolotta

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Re: Ramban's Approach to Noah and the Biblical Flood
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2016, 06:09:33 PM »
There are a number of very practical models concerning Noah's Flood and answering many objections.  For example, it was not "species" but "kind" and only certain kinds.  The kinds were most likely young to conserve space.  Many people have run the calculations and it is entirely feasible the ark had more than ample space.  The physical evidence for a global flood is also compelling.

Aside from this, I recall hearing there are over 200 flood legends from all over the world.  Duh, maybe because it really happened?