Author Topic: A good Trump nomination  (Read 2689 times)

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Offline Israel Chai

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A good Trump nomination
« on: December 15, 2016, 09:55:27 PM »
Finally. And Jstreet's tears are wonderful.

J Street
2 hrs ·

J Street is vehemently opposed to the nomination of David Friedman to be US Ambassador to Israel.

As someone who has been a leading American friend of the settlement movement, who lacks any diplomatic or policy credentials and who has attacked liberal Jews who support two states as 'worse than kapos,' Friedman should be beyond the pale for Senators considering who should represent the United States in Israel.

This nomination is reckless, putting America's reputation in the region and credibility around the world at risk.

It is important for Senators to understand that the majority of Jewish Americans oppose the views and the values this nominee represents.

J Street calls on all friends of Israel who believe its future, democracy and security depend on two states to join us in opposing this nomination.

More to come tomorrow.
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Offline Zelhar

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Re: A good Trump nomination
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2016, 05:19:38 AM »
I have to disagree. The fact that it is a Jew does not bode well for Israel. It doesn't matter that this guy has a yarmulka on his scalp.  Dan Kurtzer is also an orthodox judenrat, his brother is supposedly a settler.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: A good Trump nomination
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2016, 09:46:38 AM »
But I think this guy has helped settlers in the past.  That is probably a first.

Offline Zelhar

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Re: A good Trump nomination
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2016, 12:51:53 PM »
Can you be sure he is not some sort of "rabbi" shlomo Riskin type?

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: A good Trump nomination
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2016, 01:39:57 PM »
It's too bad most American Jews are with GayStreet.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: A good Trump nomination
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2016, 02:54:55 PM »
It's too bad most American Jews are with GayStreet.

Are "most?"   Not so sure about that.  I think most are with AIPAC.  They are not good but they are also not j street.
The whole purpose of jstreet forming was as an alternative to the mainstream American Jewish groups.  Which basically have the mainstream allegiance.

Offline cjd

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Re: A good Trump nomination
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2016, 05:53:19 AM »
Does anyone here stop to think where Israel could possibly stand in four years with Clinton in office? Sometimes half a loaf is better than nothing at all... I think Trump is trying here to be supportive of Israel by appointing Friedman... Nothing is ever in stone since  world opinion always comes into the picture when it comes to the situation in Israel... I have a feeling Trump may surprise many of has detractors... I only hope I am right however I still  rest easy because had Clinton gained office it would be no worse than anything Trump could manage to do in the next 4 years.
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Offline Israel Chai

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Re: A good Trump nomination
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2016, 11:58:07 AM »
Chaim has laid out solid Torah for Jews not running for political power, but this is not an issue here, it's an ambassador role, him being Jewish is not relevant to me. What is relevant is that he says good things, and looks like a proud and righteous Jew. Can anyone say otherwise?

FACT CHECK: Are J Street Backers Worse Than Kapos?
December 16, 2016
Daniel Greenfield
 

Trump's pick for Ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, is under fire by J Street for comments that he once made about the Anti-Israel group in which he compared its supporters to Nazi collaborators.

The Point's own Fact Check will attempt to examine and verify the truth of these remarks.

"HE CALLED YOU KAPOS," J Street's front page currently bellows. "Trump's pick for US Ambassador to Israel has shown contempt for J Street supporters. DONATE."

There are outraged press releases and calls to battle Friedman's nomination. However J Street does not appear to actually deny that its supporters or staff are worse than Kapos. Attempts to get a reply from J Street boss Jeremy Ben Ami as to whether he denies being worse than a Kapo received no reply.

    @JeremyBenAmi media question. Do you officially deny being worse than a Kapo?
    — Daniel Greenfield (@Sultanknish) December 16, 2016

There has as of yet been no reply or official denial. Nevertheless I am assuming that J Street's official position is that its people are not worse than Kapos. There is no word on whether they might agree that they are just as bad as Kapos.

Let's however examine the claim. The source of J Street's objection, often misleadingly described as Friedman labeling any Jews or liberals who support a Two State Solution as Kapos is this editorial from Israel National News,

In an extended piece on the hatred of the anti-Israel left for the Jewish State, Friedman writes that, "...are J Street supporters really as bad as kapos? The answer, actually, is no. They are far worse than kapos – Jews who turned in their fellow Jews in the Nazi death camps. The kapos faced extraordinary cruelty and who knows what any of us would have done under those circumstances to save a loved one? But J Street? They are just smug advocates of Israel’s destruction delivered from the comfort of their secure American sofas – it’s hard to imagine anyone worse."

The Point's Fact Check will attempt to evaluate the accuracy of this claim by breaking it down into logical sections.

 

1.  Are Islamic Jihadis, whether in Iran, Gaza or Ramallah, as bent on killing Jews as the Nazis?

Chants of Death to Israel and calls that Israel must be wiped out, especially when attached to ballistic missiles, make Iran's position quite clear.

Hamas' charter envisions a "struggle" against the Jews as "Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people". which climaxes with an apocalypse in which "Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."

Despite doubletalk, the PLO core envisions a similar conflict that ends with the destruction of Israel.

 

2. Does J Street collaborate in some way with Islamic Jihadis bent on exterminating the Jews?

J Street has favored the Iran deal which leaves the Islamic terror state free to pursue its nuclear and ballistic weapons program. The latter is not countered at all while the former, even according to Obama, will lead to a zero breakout time. Recent revelations about the deal suggest that the actual timeline will be a good deal shorter.

J Street strongly favors the establishment of an Islamic terror state in Israel that will be dedicated to the destruction of Israel. It has supported a Hamas unity government. It has rejected Israel's demand that the Islamic terrorists recognize its existence as a Jewish State. It has allegedly been aiding a PA declaration of Statehood at the UN. It has opposed the blockade of Hamas terrorists in Gaza. It offered sympathy for the Jihadists who attacked Israeli soldiers on the flotilla. It has a record of opposing Israel's ability to defend itself against Islamic terrorists and of lending aid and comfort to the Islamic terrorists who seek to exterminate Jews.

Furthermore J Street activists have been explicitly engaged with Islamic organizations that champion the murder of Jews.

Some of these Islamic groups praise and support the Holocaust perpetrated by the Nazis.

 

3. Are J Street members who collaborate with Islamofascists worse than Kapos who collaborated with Nazis?

It is unquestionable that J Street members are under far less duress than Kapos, Jewish Nazi collaborators, No one would argue that J Street supporters have less freedom not to collaborate with Iran, the PLO and other Islamic terrorist groups that seek the destruction of the Jewish people than Jews living under Nazi rule did.

Friedman is therefore clearly correct in this regard.

 

4. Is being referred to as Kapos unnecessarily insulting to J Street?

J Street figures appear particularly chagrined at the insult more than its factual accuracy. While this is very much a subjective issue, it should be noted that a Nazi collaborator did play a prominent role in funding J Street. While J Street has struggled to hide Soros' role in funding the anti-Israel group, it is rather difficult to deny being Kapos when being funded by a Nazi collaborator who described the time as, "probably the happiest year of my life, that year of German occupation. For me, it was a very positive experience."

This was how Soros described his participation in Nazi crimes against the Jews.

    Steve Kroft: My understanding is that you went out with this protector of yours who swore that you were his adopted godson. Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

    George Soros: Yes. That’s right. Yes.

    Steve Kroft: That sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?

    George Soros: No, not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don’t–you don’t see the connection. But it created no problem at all.

    Steve Kroft: No feeling of guilt?

    George Soros: No.

    Steve Kroft: For example that, ‘I’m Jewish and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be there. I should be there.’ None of that?

    George Soros: Well, of course I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn’t be there, because that was–well, actually, in a funny way, it’s just like in markets–that if I weren’t there–of course, I wasn’t doing it, but somebody else would–would–would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the–whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the–I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.”

 

While Soros was not technically a Kapo, the term as invective refers to Nazi collaboration in general. It would be difficult to argue that calling J Street worse than Kapos is unfair when the anti-Israel group is funded by a Nazi collaborator who seemed rather enthusiastic about his activities.

 

The Point's Fact Check therefore finds that David Friedman's claim that J Street supporters are worse than Kapos to be... Mostly True.
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Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: A good Trump nomination
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2016, 02:51:27 PM »
Chaim has laid out solid Torah for Jews not running for political power, but this is not an issue here, it's an ambassador role, him being Jewish is not relevant to me. What is relevant is that he says good things, and looks like a proud and righteous Jew. Can anyone say otherwise?

FACT CHECK: Are J Street Backers Worse Than Kapos?
December 16, 2016
Daniel Greenfield
 

Trump's pick for Ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, is under fire by J Street for comments that he once made about the Anti-Israel group in which he compared its supporters to Nazi collaborators.

The Point's own Fact Check will attempt to examine and verify the truth of these remarks.

"HE CALLED YOU KAPOS," J Street's front page currently bellows. "Trump's pick for US Ambassador to Israel has shown contempt for J Street supporters. DONATE."

There are outraged press releases and calls to battle Friedman's nomination. However J Street does not appear to actually deny that its supporters or staff are worse than Kapos. Attempts to get a reply from J Street boss Jeremy Ben Ami as to whether he denies being worse than a Kapo received no reply.

    @JeremyBenAmi media question. Do you officially deny being worse than a Kapo?
    — Daniel Greenfield (@Sultanknish) December 16, 2016

There has as of yet been no reply or official denial. Nevertheless I am assuming that J Street's official position is that its people are not worse than Kapos. There is no word on whether they might agree that they are just as bad as Kapos.

Let's however examine the claim. The source of J Street's objection, often misleadingly described as Friedman labeling any Jews or liberals who support a Two State Solution as Kapos is this editorial from Israel National News,

In an extended piece on the hatred of the anti-Israel left for the Jewish State, Friedman writes that, "...are J Street supporters really as bad as kapos? The answer, actually, is no. They are far worse than kapos – Jews who turned in their fellow Jews in the Nazi death camps. The kapos faced extraordinary cruelty and who knows what any of us would have done under those circumstances to save a loved one? But J Street? They are just smug advocates of Israel’s destruction delivered from the comfort of their secure American sofas – it’s hard to imagine anyone worse."

The Point's Fact Check will attempt to evaluate the accuracy of this claim by breaking it down into logical sections.

 

1.  Are Islamic Jihadis, whether in Iran, Gaza or Ramallah, as bent on killing Jews as the Nazis?

Chants of Death to Israel and calls that Israel must be wiped out, especially when attached to ballistic missiles, make Iran's position quite clear.

Hamas' charter envisions a "struggle" against the Jews as "Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people". which climaxes with an apocalypse in which "Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."

Despite doubletalk, the PLO core envisions a similar conflict that ends with the destruction of Israel.

 

2. Does J Street collaborate in some way with Islamic Jihadis bent on exterminating the Jews?

J Street has favored the Iran deal which leaves the Islamic terror state free to pursue its nuclear and ballistic weapons program. The latter is not countered at all while the former, even according to Obama, will lead to a zero breakout time. Recent revelations about the deal suggest that the actual timeline will be a good deal shorter.

J Street strongly favors the establishment of an Islamic terror state in Israel that will be dedicated to the destruction of Israel. It has supported a Hamas unity government. It has rejected Israel's demand that the Islamic terrorists recognize its existence as a Jewish State. It has allegedly been aiding a PA declaration of Statehood at the UN. It has opposed the blockade of Hamas terrorists in Gaza. It offered sympathy for the Jihadists who attacked Israeli soldiers on the flotilla. It has a record of opposing Israel's ability to defend itself against Islamic terrorists and of lending aid and comfort to the Islamic terrorists who seek to exterminate Jews.

Furthermore J Street activists have been explicitly engaged with Islamic organizations that champion the murder of Jews.

Some of these Islamic groups praise and support the Holocaust perpetrated by the Nazis.

 

3. Are J Street members who collaborate with Islamofascists worse than Kapos who collaborated with Nazis?

It is unquestionable that J Street members are under far less duress than Kapos, Jewish Nazi collaborators, No one would argue that J Street supporters have less freedom not to collaborate with Iran, the PLO and other Islamic terrorist groups that seek the destruction of the Jewish people than Jews living under Nazi rule did.

Friedman is therefore clearly correct in this regard.

 

4. Is being referred to as Kapos unnecessarily insulting to J Street?

J Street figures appear particularly chagrined at the insult more than its factual accuracy. While this is very much a subjective issue, it should be noted that a Nazi collaborator did play a prominent role in funding J Street. While J Street has struggled to hide Soros' role in funding the anti-Israel group, it is rather difficult to deny being Kapos when being funded by a Nazi collaborator who described the time as, "probably the happiest year of my life, that year of German occupation. For me, it was a very positive experience."

This was how Soros described his participation in Nazi crimes against the Jews.

    Steve Kroft: My understanding is that you went out with this protector of yours who swore that you were his adopted godson. Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

    George Soros: Yes. That’s right. Yes.

    Steve Kroft: That sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?

    George Soros: No, not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don’t–you don’t see the connection. But it created no problem at all.

    Steve Kroft: No feeling of guilt?

    George Soros: No.

    Steve Kroft: For example that, ‘I’m Jewish and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be there. I should be there.’ None of that?

    George Soros: Well, of course I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn’t be there, because that was–well, actually, in a funny way, it’s just like in markets–that if I weren’t there–of course, I wasn’t doing it, but somebody else would–would–would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the–whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the–I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.”

 

While Soros was not technically a Kapo, the term as invective refers to Nazi collaboration in general. It would be difficult to argue that calling J Street worse than Kapos is unfair when the anti-Israel group is funded by a Nazi collaborator who seemed rather enthusiastic about his activities.

 

The Point's Fact Check therefore finds that David Friedman's claim that J Street supporters are worse than Kapos to be... Mostly True.

lol this is well done.

Offline briann

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Re: A good Trump nomination
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2016, 11:12:31 PM »
I completely agree.  Friedman... seems ideologically solid, and I completely agree with his comments about J Street.  Trump could have picked a default RINO, but instead... he did something bold, and picked someone who is genuinely right wing.

I heard Kushner was pushing for Friedman as well.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: A good Trump nomination
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2017, 08:16:21 PM »
So... has Friedman helped make Trump's anti-Israel policies less horrible in any way whatsoever, or just give him Jew-cred?
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