Author Topic: Trump omitted mention of Jews regarding holocaust, in subservience to altright  (Read 8614 times)

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Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Is it some kind of fetish of yours? Shout 'holocaust denier' even if someone didn't. So to not mention the holocaust makes you a holocaust denier? Or if someone from your office doesn't mention the holocaust makes you a holocaust denier? Sick person you are.

Where do u get these strawmen from?

I commented on the white house purposely omitting Jews from its statement on the Holocaust memorial day, something the alt right begged to happen because they despise mention of the horrific crimes committed on Jewish people, they deny that hey happened and they want to repeat them.  It is evil for the trump white house to listen to those requests and then accede to them. 

I already explained in previous posts how it is a form of holocaust denial.  Why didn't you reply to those instead of inventing imaginary scenarios that never happened?  Maybe because you had no substantive argument in reply except "trump could have done better"

Did u get ur nose removed from trumps behind yet?

They were given a chance to clarify and they doubled down on it!

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Is it some kind of fetish of yours? Shout 'holocaust denier' even if someone didn't. So to not mention the holocaust makes you a holocaust denier? Or if someone from your office doesn't mention the holocaust makes you a holocaust denier? Sick person you are.

In America there is an official day recognized by the federal govt as Holocaust Remembrance Day because it's an internationally marked day.   They did mention it because every govt does. Bush and Obama also made statements on it.   But Trump added editorial comment on it that no one else ever has, and that comment is a neo nazi talking point.  There is no way to make this issue clearer for you so try your best to understand it.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 12:19:45 AM by Kahane-Was-Right BT »

Offline IsraelForever

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And, by the way, I'm very disappointed in Jared Kushner who, based on what Spicer said in today's news conference, was involved in the writing of the statement. 

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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And, by the way, I'm very disappointed in Jared Kushner who, based on what Spicer said in today's news conference, was involved in the writing of the statement.

Not necessarily.

A source claims it was Boris Epshteyn

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trump-holocaust-memorial-234394

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Here is some education on this topic from Deborah Lipstadt

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/the-trump-administrations-softcore-holocaust-denial/514974/

The Trump Administration's Flirtation With Holocaust Denial

The White House statement on Holocaust Remembrance day did not mention Jews or antisemitism.

Holocaust denial is alive and well in the highest offices of the United States. It is being spread by those in President Trump’s innermost circle. It may have all started as a mistake by a new administration that is loath to admit it’s wrong. Conversely, it may be a conscious attempt by people with anti-Semitic sympathies to rewrite history. Either way it is deeply disturbing.

For me these developments are intensely personal—not because I have immediate family members who died in the Holocaust. I don’t. But I have spent a good number of years fighting something which the White House now seems to be fostering.

Last Friday, I was in Amsterdam attending a screening of the movie Denial. It’s a film about the libel suit David Irving, once arguably the world’s most influential Holocaust denier, brought against me for having called him a denier. The trial, held in 2000, lasted 10 weeks. Because of the nature of British libel laws which placed the burden of proof on me, I had no choice but to fight. Had I not fought he would have won by default and his denial version of the Holocaust—no gas chambers, no mass killings, no Hitler involvement, and that this is all a myth concocted by Jews—would have been enshrined in British law.

After an intense day of press interviews and screenings, I had gone for a short walk. Intent on enjoying my surroundings, I ignored the pinging of my phone. Ironically, I had just reached the Anne Frank House, the place where Anne wrote her diary, when the pinging became so incessant that I checked to see what was happening.

I quickly learned that the White House had released a statement for Holocaust Remembrance Day that did not mention Jews or anti-Semitism. Instead it bemoaned the “innocent victims.” The internet was buzzing and many people were fuming. Though no fan of Trump, I chalked it up as a rookie mistake by a new administration busy issuing a slew of executive orders. Someone had screwed up. I refused to get agitated, and counseled my growing number of correspondents to hold their fire. A clarification would certainly soon follow. I was wrong.

In a clumsy defense Hope Hicks, the White House director of strategic communications, insisted that, the White House, by not referring to Jews, was acting in an “inclusive” manner. It deserved praise not condemnation. Hicks pointed those who inquired to an article which bemoaned the fact that, too often the “other” victims of the Holocaust were forgotten. Underlying this claim is the contention that the Jews are “stealing” the Holocaust for themselves. It is a calumny founded in anti-Semitism.

The de-Judaization of the Holocaust, as exemplified by the White House statement, is what I term softcore Holocaust denial.

There were indeed millions of innocent people whom the Nazis killed in many horrific ways, some in the course of the war and some because the Germans perceived them—however deluded their perception—to pose a threat to their rule. They suffered terribly. But that was not the Holocaust.

The Holocaust was something entirely different. It was an organized program with the goal of wiping out a specific people. Jews did not have to do anything to be perceived as worthy of being murdered. Old people who had to be wheeled to the deportation trains and babies who had to be carried were all to be killed. The point was not, as in occupied countries, to get rid of people because they might mount a resistance to Nazism, but to get rid of Jews because they were Jews. Roma (Gypsies) were also targeted. Many were murdered. But the Nazi anti-Roma policy was inconsistent. Some could live in peace and even serve in the German army.

German homosexuals were horribly abused by the Third Reich. Some were given the chance of “reforming” themselves and then going to serve on the eastern front, where many of them became cannon fodder. Would I have wanted to be a homosexual in the Reich, or in the rest of Nazi occupied Europe? Absolutely not. But they were not systematically wiped out.

This is a matter of historical accuracy and not of comparative pain. If my family members had been killed by the Germans for resisting or for some other perceived wrong I would not be—nor should I be—comforted by the fact that they were not killed as part of the Holocaust.

Had the Germans won, they probably would have eliminated millions of other peoples, including the Roma, homosexuals, dissidents of any kind, and other “useless eaters.” But it was only the Jews whose destruction could not wait until after the war. Only in the case of the Jews could war priorities be overridden. Germany was fighting two wars in tandem, a conventional war and a war against the Jews. It lost the first and, for all intents and purposes, nearly won the second.

The de-Judaization of the Holocaust, as exemplified by the White House statement, is what I term softcore Holocaust denial. Hardcore denial is the kind of thing I encountered in the courtroom. In an outright and forceful fashion, Irving denied the facts of the Holocaust. In his decision, Judge Charles Grey called Irving a liar and a manipulator of history. He did so, the judge ruled, deliberately and not as the result of mistakes.

Softcore denial uses different tactics but has the same end-goal. (I use hardcore and softcore deliberately because I see denial as a form of historiographic pornography.) It does not deny the facts, but it minimizes them, arguing that Jews use the Holocaust to draw attention away from criticism of Israel. Softcore denial also makes all sorts of false comparisons to the Holocaust. In certain Eastern European countries today, those who fought the Nazis may be lauded, but if they did so with a communist resistance group they may be prosecuted. Softcore denial also includes Holocaust minimization, as when someone suggests it was not so bad. “Why are we hearing about that again?”

What we saw from the White House was classic softcore denial. The Holocaust was de-Judaized. It is possible that it all began with a mistake. Someone simply did not realize what they were doing. It is also possible that someone did this deliberately. The White House’s chief strategist, Steve Bannon, boasted that while at Breitbart he created a platform for alt-right. Richard Spencer, the self-proclaimed leader of the alt-right, has invited overt Holocaust deniers to alt-right conferences, and his followers have engaged in outright denial. During the campaign, he was reportedly responsible for speeches and ads that many observers concluded trafficked in anti-Semitic tropes.

After Hicks’s defense of the statement, Chief of Staff Reince Priebus doubled down, insisting that they made no mistake. On Meet the Press Chuck Todd gave Priebus repeated chances to retract or rephrase the statement. Priebus refused and dug in deeper, declaring “everyone’s suffering in the Holocaust, including obviously, all of the Jewish people… [was] extraordinarily sad.”

In the penultimate sentence of the president’s statement on Holocaust Remembrance Day, the White House promised to ensure that “the forces of evil never again defeat the powers of good.” But the statement was issued on the same day as the order banning refugees. It is hard not to conclude that this is precisely what happened at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue on Holocaust Remembrance Day.

Offline UncleBourbon

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This is really reaching.

The real antisemitism and undermining of the Holocaust comes from the leftists anyway. In the 90's there was a huge campaign by homosexual activists to portray themselves as Nazi victims on par with the Jews.

If that's not an example of de-Judaizing the Holocaust I don't know what is.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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This is really reaching.

The real antisemitism and undermining of the Holocaust comes from the leftists anyway. In the 90's there was a huge campaign by homosexual activists to portray themselves as Nazi victims on par with the Jews.

If that's not an example of de-Judaizing the Holocaust I don't know what is.

I don't see how your example shows "the real antisemitism and undermining of Holocaust comes from the leftists."  Leftists may also at times do it, that doesn't make it ok for someone else to do it.

Real antisemitism and undermining of holocaust is right now coming from the AltRight white nationalists.  If you think I'm making it up it's because you haven't seen their writings and haven't read their pseudo intellectual leadership.   If you did, you'd agree with me.

There is ZERO reaching here.  Deborah Lipstadt has been fighting real holocaust denial most of her life and knows all about it. 
Others she has criticized on this issue include Muslim Council of Britain as well as Jimmy Carter.
So it's a really braindead argument to dismiss her as some kind of leftist activist, which she isn't.   You should read her words and her arguments instead of labeling her or dismissing her.   There is zero substance to your "but the left did it too" reply.

Offline GreenLightToGo

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Real antisemitism and undermining of holocaust is right now coming from the AltRight white nationalists.  If you think I'm making it up it's because you haven't seen their writings and haven't read their pseudo intellectual leadership.   If you did, you'd agree with me.

There is ZERO reaching here.  Deborah Lipstadt has been fighting real holocaust denial most of her life and knows all about it. 
Others she has criticized on this issue include Muslim Council of Britain as well as Jimmy Carter.
So it's a really braindead argument to dismiss her as some kind of leftist activist, which she isn't.   You should read her words and her arguments instead of labeling her or dismissing her.   There is zero substance to your "but the left did it too" reply.

In 2020, you're going to have a choice between Trump and a Democrat who wants to pander to Muslims.

Trump will offend. It's one of his flaws. But he also has advantages (like his appointment of a Zionist as ambassador to Israel, or wanting to do something about Muslim immigration). Maybe a few threads could be made about those, in addition to this.

If you want to hear some positives about Trump, here's JTF's preferred Trump alternative Ted Cruz talking about how Trump's administration is "the most conservative in decades", and that his cabinet appointments have been "phenomenal", and form "an all-star cabinet":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asy4Gh5TpX8

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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In 2020, you're going to have a choice between Trump and a Democrat who wants to pander to Muslims.

Trump will offend. It's one of his flaws. But he also has advantages (like his appointment of a Zionist as ambassador to Israel, or wanting to do something about Muslim immigration). Maybe a few threads could be made about those, in addition to this.

If you want to hear some positives about Trump, here's JTF's preferred Trump alternative Ted Cruz talking about how Trump's administration is "the most conservative in decades", and that his cabinet appointments have been "phenomenal", and form "an all-star cabinet":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asy4Gh5TpX8
All you have proven is that Cruz is a sellout too, not that anything Trump has done is useful.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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I don't see how your example shows "the real antisemitism and undermining of Holocaust comes from the leftists."  Leftists may also at times do it, that doesn't make it ok for someone else to do it.

Real antisemitism and undermining of holocaust is right now coming from the AltRight white nationalists.  If you think I'm making it up it's because you haven't seen their writings and haven't read their pseudo intellectual leadership.   If you did, you'd agree with me.

There is ZERO reaching here.  Deborah Lipstadt has been fighting real holocaust denial most of her life and knows all about it. 
Others she has criticized on this issue include Muslim Council of Britain as well as Jimmy Carter.
So it's a really braindead argument to dismiss her as some kind of leftist activist, which she isn't.   You should read her words and her arguments instead of labeling her or dismissing her.  There is zero substance to your "but the left did it too" reply.
Is there really much difference between the alt-right and the left? Both are rooted in identity politics and crude nationalism.

Offline Mishmaat

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Is there really much difference between the alt-right and the left? Both are rooted in identity politics and crude nationalism.

Most leftists belong in a mental asylum. Members of the "alt-right" should have every bone in their body broken or worse.

Offline GreenLightToGo

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All you have proven is that Cruz is a sellout too, not that anything Trump has done is useful.
Ah, now we're getting somewhere.

But you would vote for Ted Cruz, right? Even though you regard him as being as much a sellout as Trump?

Politicians are useful compared to other politicians. That's why you go out and vote for the lesser of the evils.

All of the negative threads about Trump on this forum aren't going to make him worse than his Democrat challenger in 2020.

In the meantime while JTF has been focused almost entirely on Trump, Rand Paul has been gaining traction in American politics! A few anti Rand Paul threads and videos from this forum wouldn't hurt. Rand Paul explicitly says "our wars are just for the chosen people." You don't even need to speculate about how "is he using coded/subliminal language." He's an open anti-semite!

I disagree with JTF's direction ever since Cruz lost the nomination.

Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Most leftists belong in a mental asylum. Members of the "alt-right" should have every bone in their body broken or worse.


Chaim has explained that Nazism is Leftist. National Socialism is not Right Wing. So the "alt right" is really Leftist, just like Rand Paul is a Leftist.



Offline Mishmaat

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Chaim has explained that Nazism is Leftist. National Socialism is not Right Wing. So the "alt right" is really Leftist, just like Rand Paul is a Leftist.

I never even implied that the "alt-right" were right-wing. In fact, I deliberately placed that misnomer in quotes. Also, I refuse to lump the "alt-right" Nazis with your typical liberal. One group espouses a virulent form of anti-Semitism that requires physical retaliation. The other group, generally speaking, should be detained in a mental health facility.

Rand Paul is actually a libertarian. Part of his ideology conforms to standard right-wing ideology. Most of it doesn't and is blatantly amoral. To paint with a broad brushstroke in this particular circumstance would be intellectually disingenuous.

Offline Mishmaat

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Ah, now we're getting somewhere.

But you would vote for Ted Cruz, right? Even though you regard him as being as much a sellout as Trump?

Politicians are useful compared to other politicians. That's why you go out and vote for the lesser of the evils.

All of the negative threads about Trump on this forum aren't going to make him worse than his Democrat challenger in 2020.

In the meantime while JTF has been focused almost entirely on Trump, Rand Paul has been gaining traction in American politics! A few anti Rand Paul threads and videos from this forum wouldn't hurt. Rand Paul explicitly says "our wars are just for the chosen people." You don't even need to speculate about how "is he using coded/subliminal language." He's an open anti-semite!

I disagree with JTF's direction ever since Cruz lost the nomination.

Cruz, unfortunately, compromised. He's up for re-election in 2018 and not supporting President Orange-utan would have been detrimental.

As far as Rand Paul is concerned, the rotten apple doesn't fall far from the putrid rotten tree.

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 anti-Semitic brands and deserve to experience their own holocaust.

Offline Israel Chai

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Trump is such a perfect troll. If you say something, you look like you're too extreme, i mean it's just a speech, didn't say anything bad, but it would be like talking about the Armenian genocide and not mentioning FREEKING ARMENIANS, obviously that was planned out perfectly.

Now if you say "he's trying to screw with Jews" those not completely on the Trump side will turn on you "you're twisting his words", and people completely against Trump can use this to prove that he is in fact Hitler and Mussolini in a symbiotic union, which turns them away from their fellow Americans more, and makes them repulsive to them.

Literally everything this guy does is the perfect troll where the average guy won't really see the messages he's sending, the extremes on both sides declare that the message is obvious, and they get the averagers to turn on whoever talks first, because obviously that's too far, and the only thing you can say is this or nothing that I can see.

It would be difficult to polarize Americans as much as Obama did, but there is no one on any side that can say Trump is bringing people together.

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Offline Israel Chai

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Where do u get these strawmen from?

I commented on the white house purposely omitting Jews from its statement on the Holocaust memorial day, something the alt right begged to happen because they despise mention of the horrific crimes committed on Jewish people, they deny that hey happened and they want to repeat them.  It is evil for the trump white house to listen to those requests and then accede to them. 

I already explained in previous posts how it is a form of holocaust denial.  Why didn't you reply to those instead of inventing imaginary scenarios that never happened?  Maybe because you had no substantive argument in reply except "trump could have done better"

Did u get ur nose removed from trumps behind yet?

They were given a chance to clarify and they doubled down on it!

This is not about Trump, he gets very upset whenever we say something is a problem for Jews.
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Offline Lisa

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According to The Hill, that speech was written by a Jew named Boris Epshteyn.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316994-jewish-aide-wrote-trump-holocaust-statement-report

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Trump is such a perfect troll. If you say something, you look like you're too extreme, i mean it's just a speech, didn't say anything bad, but it would be like talking about the Armenian genocide and not mentioning FREEKING ARMENIANS, obviously that was planned out perfectly.

Now if you say "he's trying to screw with Jews" those not completely on the Trump side will turn on you "you're twisting his words", and people completely against Trump can use this to prove that he is in fact Hitler and Mussolini in a symbiotic union, which turns them away from their fellow Americans more, and makes them repulsive to them.

Literally everything this guy does is the perfect troll where the average guy won't really see the messages he's sending, the extremes on both sides declare that the message is obvious, and they get the averagers to turn on whoever talks first, because obviously that's too far, and the only thing you can say is this or nothing that I can see.

It would be difficult to polarize Americans as much as Obama did, but there is no one on any side that can say Trump is bringing people together.

I'd see it as a troll if not for the fact that white nationalists had been demanding this "stop saying Jews suffered different than anyone else" for years.

Offline eb22

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According to The Hill, that speech was written by a Jew named Boris Epshteyn.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316994-jewish-aide-wrote-trump-holocaust-statement-report

Interesting,  I came across an article over the weekend that mentioned Boris Epshteyn's background.

http://www.thejewishstar.com/stories/Meet-10-Jews-in-the-Trump-Administration,12659

Here is a look at the president’s Jewish advisers who will be helping to shape U.S. policy.

Boris Epshteyn
Epshteyn, a Republican political strategist who appeared as a Trump surrogate on TV, is working as a special assistant to the president. Epshteyn, who is in his mid-30s, also is serving as assistant communications director for surrogate operations.

A New York-based investment banker and finance attorney, Epshteyn was a communications aide for Sen. John McCain’s presidential campaign in 2008, focusing his efforts on the Arizona senator’s running mate, then-Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.

He defended Trump on major TV networks over 100 times, according to The New York Times. TV hosts have described Epshteyn, who moved to the United States from his native Moscow in 1993, as “very combative” and “abrasive.” In 2014, he was charged with misdemeanor assault after being involved in a bar tussle. The charge was dropped after Epshteyn agreed to undergo anger management training and perform community service.
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Offline Israel Chai

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I'd see it as a troll if not for the fact that white nationalists had been demanding this "stop saying Jews suffered different than anyone else" for years.

That's what makes it the perfect troll http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/1.768982 (sorry for the haaretz)

White Supremacist Richard Spencer Hails Trump's 'de-Judaification' of Holocaust

The leader of the so-called 'alt-right' dismisses criticism of Trump's Holocaust Day statement that left out Jews as 'kvetching.'

Jewish activists, Spencer wrote in a short post for his new website Altright.com, have long insisted on making the Holocaust “all about their meta-narrative of suffering” and a way to “undergird their peculiar position in American society.”

The Holocaust, in Spencer’s eyes, has become a sort of moral bludgeon — used against white nationalists like himself.

“We can’t limit immigration, because Hitler. We can’t can’t be proud of ourselves as a Europeans, because Holocaust. White people can be Christian, but not too Christian, because Auschwitz,” he wrote.

Spencer went on: “Effectively, any policy, idea, or belief that is markedly right-wing and traditional — that evokes identity, power, hierarchy, and dominance — must be regulated by the possibility that it could potentially lead back to the German Führer.”


Now they are very happy, Jews on the left scream nonsense so loud real voices can't be heard, and they are silenced by the more moderates. The people police each other where possible to support Trump, and anyone going to an extreme is discounted, everyone hates everyone and fights everyone in the name of Trump and doesn't do anything to oppose him, it's perfect. I'm starting to see more and more completely evil, but perfect.
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