Author Topic: Where is the logic of the "conservative" movement allowing same sex marriages?  (Read 2664 times)

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Offline ChabadKahanist

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Where is the logic of the grossly misnamed "conservative" movement allowing same sex marriages & forbidding interfaith marriages?
Why is one better or worse than the other?
They may as well just allow interfaith marriages also as well as patrilineal descent & merge with the reform movement rather than bullshitting themselves & saying that they are a halachic movement when in fact they are merely reform with a little traditional & ritualistic window dressing!!!!!

Offline Israel Chai

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Conservatives can be Nazis, gays, communists, everything today. It's like saying pro-Israel.
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Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Homosexual "marriage" is worse than intermarriage. Homosexuality is one of the three cardinal sins. With intermarriage, it's always possible that the Non-Jewish spouse will one day convert. Homosexual "marriage" will never be permitted. There are no "sex changes" in Judaism so two men will always be two men and will always be prohibited to each other.


Offline ChabadKahanist

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Homosexual "marriage" is worse than intermarriage. Homosexuality is one of the three cardinal sins. With intermarriage, it's always possible that the Non-Jewish spouse will one day convert. Homosexual "marriage" will never be permitted. There are no "sex changes" in Judaism so two men will always be two men and will always be prohibited to each other.
I agree with you but my point is if they permit same sex marriages which are a toeiva why not also permit interfaith ones as well it does not make sense.

Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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I agree with you but my point is if they permit same sex marriages which are a toeiva why not also permit interfaith ones as well it does not make sense.


I asked someone if her Conservative rabbi performs homosexual "marriages". She said only if both are Jewish. Her daughter "intermarried" another woman so they had to get a Deform "rabbi" and an Xtian minister to do it.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 10:30:01 PM by Binyamin Yisrael »

Offline ChabadKahanist

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I asked someone if her Conservative rabbi performs homosexual "marriages". She said only if both are Jewish. Her daughter "intermarried" another woman so they had to get a Deform "rabbi" and an Xtian minister to do it.
What is the logic in that?

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Where is the logic of the grossly misnamed "conservative" movement allowing same sex marriages & forbidding interfaith marriages?
Why is one better or worse than the other?
They may as well just allow interfaith marriages also as well as patrilineal descent & merge with the reform movement rather than bullshitting themselves & saying that they are a halachic movement when in fact they are merely reform with a little traditional & ritualistic window dressing!!!!!

Some of reform also does not allow interfaith marriages.

Allowing homosexual marriages is just another "too many of our congregants want to do this so we have to allow it" case.

Offline syyuge

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Absolute degeneration.
There are thunders and sparks in the skies, because Faraday invented the electricity.

Offline Shoftim3:31

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No offence to any of the conservatives out there [actually, sort of offence; either be Secular like me and follow as many rules as logically possible for the moment, or become some flavor of Orthodox].


Reforms, and by extent Conservatives; ARE NOT JEWS.
Reforms live in a fantasy where G-d spoke English, men and women do everything, women rabbis, sex changes, homosexuality, etc. They are NOT JEWS. and NEVER WILL BE.
Conservatives REALLY WANT to take it seriously, but for whatever reason they can't. And lets be honest, if you aren't dressed up like a member of the black shirt gang, you can't ever really fit the Orthodox mold [ik Modern Orthodox and Breslov and others don't all look the same, I'm making a point].
Once you are outside of the Orthodox, you really stop following most rules. I'm secular, but if I were to take a test to place me somewhere, I'd probably be in the upper echelons of Breslov or maybe Ger. I follow as many rules as I can, while still trying to keep my sanity and also have a foot in the real world [no offence to yall Orthodox].
Since they aren't in the black shirt gang, they stop caring. As a result, they start becoming quite liberal. There are varying degrees of liberal that they become. All I'm saying is that once you abandon your roots [kiddies we all once were Orthodox] you forget them and can never get them back.

I legit don't know why they don't allow both. Its still disgusting and a shame to Judaism, but I legit can't analytically explain why, other than they maybe are trying to create a new offshoot of Judaism [last successful offshoot is called Islam, ya may have heard of it...]
Our worst enemy isn't Nazis, Arabs or Liberals, its Jews that hate themselves: Bernies Sanders, Chuck Schumer, George Soros.

Everyone else just strayed from H' word. But these people pretend.

Offline Israel Chai

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Your behavior doesn't determine your Judaism. If you throw a fit today and are good tomorrow, you're still a Jew both days. Many people in the conserved and deform movement happen to be Jews, many are not halachically. We can wish that they weren't Jews and therefore associated with us, and they aren't practicing Judaism, but they're still Jews. You don't decide who is and who isn't based on your emotions, Hashem does. The fact that such people are Jews makes it worse for us.

The Orthodox mold really isn't hard to fit, unless you have personal problems. Alot of my family is chill Chabad now, they aren't in black, they daven the minimum in the week and just spend the day at the shul and eating on shabbos, Judaism doesn't take up their whole lives, and they love it.

Hashem never told us on Har Sinai to wear 1800s styles. Many of the guys were wearing earrings too. Judaism is about what you do, so long as you're dressed well enough to show you're sort of the prince of the universe, it's cool.

I made teshuva because people here told me what's what, and I'm still not 100% in my life. Mitzvot are like weights, don't start with the 500 or you'll break your back, you can learn about how to carry it, but leave it there until you're past 10 and 50 and 100. Take your time, do small things and stick with them, and you'll grow the right way. Hashem knows exactly who he created. As a perpetual extremists, I figured it was like "stop being fat" which you can just work out like a psycho and 2 weeks you're good, it's not like that here, you'll just damage yourself if you go to fast, it's a lot to change in yourself and your life.

Islam is an offshoot of Gnostic Xtianity, it has no relation to Judaism.

It's never too late. You're 17. There are things Hashem could offer you, and in your youth you'd be thrilled and sing all day to him for them. I wish I knew all this now when I was your age, or a year later or a year later or a year later...

Get invites for shabbos, and just spend that day doing good. If you do nothing else the whole week, but you keep shabbos with Jews, you're getting a wonderful olam haba so long as you're not an idol worshiper. It's really not that hard to have a meal and say a few things while someone sings, it helps you alot as well.

The manaics who decide that everyone that doesn't wear unkosher animals on their head (that they wouldn't walk into Har Habayit with) isn't a Jew are simply wrong, and should learn halachot
 for what a Jew is and what lashon hara is and what embarrassing your brothers is.

No offence to any of the conservatives out there [actually, sort of offence; either be Secular like me and follow as many rules as logically possible for the moment, or become some flavor of Orthodox].


Reforms, and by extent Conservatives; ARE NOT JEWS.
Reforms live in a fantasy where G-d spoke English, men and women do everything, women rabbis, sex changes, homosexuality, etc. They are NOT JEWS. and NEVER WILL BE.
Conservatives REALLY WANT to take it seriously, but for whatever reason they can't. And lets be honest, if you aren't dressed up like a member of the black shirt gang, you can't ever really fit the Orthodox mold [ik Modern Orthodox and Breslov and others don't all look the same, I'm making a point].
Once you are outside of the Orthodox, you really stop following most rules. I'm secular, but if I were to take a test to place me somewhere, I'd probably be in the upper echelons of Breslov or maybe Ger. I follow as many rules as I can, while still trying to keep my sanity and also have a foot in the real world [no offence to yall Orthodox].
Since they aren't in the black shirt gang, they stop caring. As a result, they start becoming quite liberal. There are varying degrees of liberal that they become. All I'm saying is that once you abandon your roots [kiddies we all once were Orthodox] you forget them and can never get them back.

I legit don't know why they don't allow both. Its still disgusting and a shame to Judaism, but I legit can't analytically explain why, other than they maybe are trying to create a new offshoot of Judaism [last successful offshoot is called Islam, ya may have heard of it...]
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Shoftim3:31

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Your behavior doesn't determine your Judaism. If you throw a fit today and are good tomorrow, you're still a Jew both days. Many people in the conserved and deform movement happen to be Jews, many are not halachically. We can wish that they weren't Jews and therefore associated with us, and they aren't practicing Judaism, but they're still Jews. You don't decide who is and who isn't based on your emotions, Hashem does. The fact that such people are Jews makes it worse for us.

The Orthodox mold really isn't hard to fit, unless you have personal problems. Alot of my family is chill Chabad now, they aren't in black, they daven the minimum in the week and just spend the day at the shul and eating on shabbos, Judaism doesn't take up their whole lives, and they love it.

Hashem never told us on Har Sinai to wear 1800s styles. Many of the guys were wearing earrings too. Judaism is about what you do, so long as you're dressed well enough to show you're sort of the prince of the universe, it's cool.

I made teshuva because people here told me what's what, and I'm still not 100% in my life. Mitzvot are like weights, don't start with the 500 or you'll break your back, you can learn about how to carry it, but leave it there until you're past 10 and 50 and 100. Take your time, do small things and stick with them, and you'll grow the right way. Hashem knows exactly who he created. As a perpetual extremists, I figured it was like "stop being fat" which you can just work out like a psycho and 2 weeks you're good, it's not like that here, you'll just damage yourself if you go to fast, it's a lot to change in yourself and your life.

Islam is an offshoot of Gnostic Xtianity, it has no relation to Judaism.

It's never too late. You're 17. There are things Hashem could offer you, and in your youth you'd be thrilled and sing all day to him for them. I wish I knew all this now when I was your age, or a year later or a year later or a year later...

Get invites for shabbos, and just spend that day doing good. If you do nothing else the whole week, but you keep shabbos with Jews, you're getting a wonderful olam haba so long as you're not an idol worshiper. It's really not that hard to have a meal and say a few things while someone sings, it helps you alot as well.

The manaics who decide that everyone that doesn't wear unkosher animals on their head (that they wouldn't walk into Har Habayit with) isn't a Jew are simply wrong, and should learn halachot
 for what a Jew is and what lashon hara is and what embarrassing your brothers is.
Much thanks, my fellow. I appreciate the care/whatever-that-word-is-that-I-cant-be-bothered-to-remember-at-the-moment.


My point was that conservatives allow same sex because they may really want to be more orthodox, but are too liberal at the moment. When there is a clique/proper etiquette to follow, it is much easier to follow a rulebook/argue/etc. When you are trying to be a relaxed organization, what point is considered too relaxed?
Our worst enemy isn't Nazis, Arabs or Liberals, its Jews that hate themselves: Bernies Sanders, Chuck Schumer, George Soros.

Everyone else just strayed from H' word. But these people pretend.

Offline Joe Gutfeld

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To be politically correct.

Offline Shoftim3:31

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Our worst enemy isn't Nazis, Arabs or Liberals, its Jews that hate themselves: Bernies Sanders, Chuck Schumer, George Soros.

Everyone else just strayed from H' word. But these people pretend.

Offline ChabadKahanist

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Exactly +1
So why not be logical & allow interfaith marriages also?

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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So why not be logical & allow interfaith marriages also?

Because who is Jewish and who is not is an existential question.  It goes beyond sanctioning a sinful behavior.