Kahanist Singles > Jewish Singles
Do You Think Pants Are Modest For Women?
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 07:04:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 06:57:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 06:52:46 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 06:39:30 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 27, 2008, 03:05:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 02:32:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 27, 2008, 11:19:29 AM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 02:30:38 AM ---
--- Quote from: There Are No 'Israeli' Arabs on January 27, 2008, 12:52:47 AM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 26, 2008, 09:00:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: There Are No 'Israeli' Arabs on January 25, 2008, 11:58:15 AM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 25, 2008, 03:40:09 AM ---
--- Quote from: Lisa on October 09, 2007, 06:07:51 PM ---I wear pants.
It all depends. Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest. The same holds true for jeans.
--- End quote ---
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )
--- End quote ---
Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
--- End quote ---
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.
--- End quote ---
But a skirt is more modest.
--- End quote ---
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.
I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
--- End quote ---
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer. We follow His Word...
--- End quote ---
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
--- End quote ---
Show me where it says that. And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 02:40:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 01:56:23 PM ---How is a skirt more modest than pants?
--- End quote ---
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.
Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing pants.
--- End quote ---
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin. And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.
--- End quote ---
For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.
Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
--- End quote ---
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.
--- End quote ---
Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.
We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air. Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".
--- End quote ---
If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.
--- End quote ---
In my opinion, fantasies about other women while a man is married to his own wife isn't such a good thing..although I'm sure it happens to the best of every single one of us..female and male.
Just Erica:
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 08:54:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 07:04:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 06:57:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 06:52:46 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 06:39:30 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 27, 2008, 03:05:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 02:32:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 27, 2008, 11:19:29 AM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 02:30:38 AM ---
--- Quote from: There Are No 'Israeli' Arabs on January 27, 2008, 12:52:47 AM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 26, 2008, 09:00:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: There Are No 'Israeli' Arabs on January 25, 2008, 11:58:15 AM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 25, 2008, 03:40:09 AM ---
--- Quote from: Lisa on October 09, 2007, 06:07:51 PM ---I wear pants.
It all depends. Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest. The same holds true for jeans.
--- End quote ---
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )
--- End quote ---
Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
--- End quote ---
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.
--- End quote ---
But a skirt is more modest.
--- End quote ---
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.
I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
--- End quote ---
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer. We follow His Word...
--- End quote ---
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
--- End quote ---
Show me where it says that. And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 02:40:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 01:56:23 PM ---How is a skirt more modest than pants?
--- End quote ---
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.
Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing pants.
--- End quote ---
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin. And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.
--- End quote ---
For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.
Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
--- End quote ---
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.
--- End quote ---
Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.
We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air. Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".
--- End quote ---
If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.
--- End quote ---
In my opinion, fantasies about other women while a man is married to his own wife isn't such a good thing..although I'm sure it happens to the best of every single one of us..female and male.
--- End quote ---
I never mentioned it being okay if a married male has fantasies about other women. A decent man doesn't always mean a married man.
Just Erica:
--- Quote from: There Are No 'Israeli' Arabs on January 27, 2008, 08:58:13 PM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 02:30:38 AM ---
--- Quote from: There Are No 'Israeli' Arabs on January 27, 2008, 12:52:47 AM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 26, 2008, 09:00:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: There Are No 'Israeli' Arabs on January 25, 2008, 11:58:15 AM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 25, 2008, 03:40:09 AM ---
--- Quote from: Lisa on October 09, 2007, 06:07:51 PM ---I wear pants.
It all depends. Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest. The same holds true for jeans.
--- End quote ---
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )
--- End quote ---
Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
--- End quote ---
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.
--- End quote ---
But a skirt is more modest.
--- End quote ---
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.
I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
--- End quote ---
I don't care what you wear. You are not Jewish, therefore the laws of modesty do not apply to you. The issue here isn't so much the Torah prohibition against crossdressing, it is the prohibition against immodesty on both men and women. Tight-fitting skirts or pants are also prohibited.
Second, I'm not threatened by women who wear pants. If you want to look like a man, go ahead. If that's the way you want to express your feminist liberation, by all means.
--- End quote ---
There is the sexist in you. I don't wear pants to look like a man. That's why women have slacks that cater to their body type. Pants aren't a MAN thing... everyone should have the right to wear pants if they want to. I look feminine in pants.
OdKahaneChai:
OdKahaneChai: Can you please explain, for a friend of mine, why a woman
is allowed to wear a blouse, but not pants?
OdKahaneChai: He contends that it's the same concept, and that the
Rabbonim are contradicting themselves
Rabbi Velvel: The reason Halachah discourages women from wearing pants
is because the pant garment more clearly emphasizes the women's body
outline as opposed to a skirt.
Rabbi Velvel: How can the same be said about the blouse?
Rabbi Velvel: Pants might be considered more suggestive and less
concealing then a skirt/dress
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 09:18:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 08:54:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 07:04:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 06:57:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 06:52:46 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 06:39:30 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 27, 2008, 03:05:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 02:32:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on January 27, 2008, 11:19:29 AM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 02:30:38 AM ---
--- Quote from: There Are No 'Israeli' Arabs on January 27, 2008, 12:52:47 AM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 26, 2008, 09:00:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: There Are No 'Israeli' Arabs on January 25, 2008, 11:58:15 AM ---
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 25, 2008, 03:40:09 AM ---
--- Quote from: Lisa on October 09, 2007, 06:07:51 PM ---I wear pants.
It all depends. Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest. The same holds true for jeans.
--- End quote ---
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )
--- End quote ---
Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
--- End quote ---
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.
--- End quote ---
But a skirt is more modest.
--- End quote ---
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.
I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
--- End quote ---
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer. We follow His Word...
--- End quote ---
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
--- End quote ---
Show me where it says that. And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...
--- Quote from: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 02:40:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 01:56:23 PM ---How is a skirt more modest than pants?
--- End quote ---
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.
Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing pants.
--- End quote ---
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin. And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.
--- End quote ---
For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.
Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
--- End quote ---
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.
--- End quote ---
Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.
We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air. Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".
--- End quote ---
If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.
--- End quote ---
In my opinion, fantasies about other women while a man is married to his own wife isn't such a good thing..although I'm sure it happens to the best of every single one of us..female and male.
--- End quote ---
I never mentioned it being okay if a married male has fantasies about other women. A decent man doesn't always mean a married man.
--- End quote ---
So then you proved my point...A married man will still look..but if there are no opportunities to look he'll be better off and a better husband.
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