JTF.ORG Forum
Kahanist Singles => Jewish Singles => Topic started by: Ari on January 18, 2008, 12:40:46 PM
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Are they appropriate among couples? O0
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There are certain limits.
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no comment
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Are they appropriate among couples? O0
No.
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Kissing in public? Absolutely not!
No need to flaunt what you have in front of the poor guys who have trouble getting women.
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Many things I don't like, but it depends on the age of the people, I think theres nothing nicer to see a very old couple sitting and holding hands ;)
But I don't like young couples that are just about eating each other .
Small kiss on the check yes, as a hello or good bye thats fine, holding hands yeah thats fine too.
Climbing over each other arrgghhh nooo.
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No.
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NO!
There is place for that,and should stay that way!
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I don't really care what they do, I don't pay attention to what other people are doing unless they come within my personal space.
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I feel they are usually inappropriate. I was looking for confirmation.
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Kissing in public? Absolutely not!
No need to flaunt what you have in front of the poor guys who have trouble getting women.
I'm going to second that....
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No.
A Jewish couple should not show PDA or hold hands etc.
The reason is that a man should respect the wife's privacy.
If they are seen touching then its obvious she's not niddah and people would know. But later if they are seen not touching people would know she is.
So, for the sake of the wife's privacy, they should not touch in public. I guess unless they don't care if others know, but me personally, I want to keep things private.
Also, its not appropriate.
i love that jewish logic! nice!
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No.
A Jewish couple should not show PDA or hold hands etc.
The reason is that a man should respect the wife's privacy.
If they are seen touching then its obvious she's not niddah and people would know. But later if they are seen not touching people would know she is.
So, for the sake of the wife's privacy, they should not touch in public. I guess unless they don't care if others know, but me personally, I want to keep things private.
Also, its not appropriate.
i love that jewish logic! nice!
Yes its funny how things work. Sometimes when I study these things there are like 100 loopholes or laws based on something I never even heard of. Yet in the end,they always end up making sense somehow.
I learned this a while ago from my book I study Judaism from.
the same logic is also why women don't read from the Torah...
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No.
A Jewish couple should not show PDA or hold hands etc.
The reason is that a man should respect the wife's privacy.
If they are seen touching then its obvious she's not niddah and people would know. But later if they are seen not touching people would know she is.
So, for the sake of the wife's privacy, they should not touch in public. I guess unless they don't care if others know, but me personally, I want to keep things private.
Also, its not appropriate.
This is an extremely good and intelligent post.
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Well when I was married, my husband held my hand in public, even pull his hand against the small of my back at times, so is G-d going to send me to hell? I think not.
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Of course you aren't going to hell for holding hands with your husband.
She was making the point that religious Jews can't tell if a woman is on nidah.
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Well when I was married, my husband held my hand in public, even pull his hand against the small of my back at times, so is G-d going to send me to hell? I think not.
nothing wrong with that...
to each their own is what i always say.
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Well when I was married, my husband held my hand in public, even pull his hand against the small of my back at times, so is G-d going to send me to hell? I think not.
That doesn't mean it's a good thing to do...
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Well when I was married, my husband held my hand in public, even pull his hand against the small of my back at times, so is G-d going to send me to hell? I think not.
That doesn't mean it's a good thing to do...
Doesn't mean its a bad thing either, why must you make it sound that life would end if you did. Honestly I wonder if any of you have been in any type of relationship :-\
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Doesn't mean its a bad thing either, why must you make it sound that life would end if you did. Honestly I wonder if any of you have been in any type of relationship :-\
Uh oh.. she's trying to stir up controversy yet again :P
The small of your back? What's the small of a back?
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Them be fighten words there Lady. :P
I have been married to my wife now for 16 years. I do not show public signs of affection except a quick peck on the lips as we walk out the door.
I was taught to respect a lady. Because someone may see us and begin evil thoughts about our physical relationship. We are to try and present to the World a Moral example as Jews. That is another reason for a woman to dress modestly in public it prevents & assist males from lusting.
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Skippy, no offense but you TOTALLY took this the wrong way and I was NOT even mentioning "hell" WTH?
I was just saying to NOT touch for privacy reasons. There is a BIG difference from me saying that it could be kept private compared to YOUR version of sinning and hell.
I don't even think its a "sin" so I have no clue where you got this from.
Why would you think this anyways? ???
Because quite honestly I am a very moral Jewish woman, you are making it sound so loose to even be touched by a man.
My rabbi has even touched me in public. Does that make it bad as well? No its called being a human.
I touch people everyday in public, I have people coming and hugging me. Some oh yes get the stones out! They even kiss me. Does that make me a scarlet woman?
On well then it must, because every day I hug and kiss a fella who is not my husband, he is my baby nephew and trust me I don't care whos looking.
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Honestly Orthodox Rabbis are prevented from touching other women in private or public.
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Doesn't mean its a bad thing either, why must you make it sound that life would end if you did. Honestly I wonder if any of you have been in any type of relationship :-\
Uh oh.. she's trying to stir up controversy yet again :P
The small of your back? What's the small of a back?
Small of your back is the lower half of your spine just above your rear end, the curvy bit or lower lumber for more medical people. ::)
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Honestly Orthodox Rabbis are prevented from touching other women in private or public.
He is Orthodox, he is a great Rabbi, and a personal friend.
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Doesn't mean its a bad thing either, why must you make it sound that life would end if you did. Honestly I wonder if any of you have been in any type of relationship :-\
Uh oh.. she's trying to stir up controversy yet again :P
The small of your back? What's the small of a back?
Small of your back is the lower half of your spine just above your rear end, the curvy bit or lower lumber for more medical people. ::)
Tzs tzs, naughty naughty...
As Scriabin said.. guys should not flaunt what they have in front of poor guys that have trouble getting women - hint, HINT...
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Honestly Orthodox Rabbis are prevented from touching other women in private or public.
He is Orthodox, he is a great Rabbi, and a personal friend.
Then there is obviously something wrong here.
Is he Orthodox or "Orthodox"?
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Honestly Orthodox Rabbis are prevented from touching other women in private or public.
He is Orthodox, he is a great Rabbi, and a personal friend.
Then there is obviously something wrong here.
Is he Orthodox or "Orthodox"?
Yeah that does sound a bit odd. I'm not Jewish and I know that lol
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Doesn't mean its a bad thing either, why must you make it sound that life would end if you did. Honestly I wonder if any of you have been in any type of relationship :-\
Uh oh.. she's trying to stir up controversy yet again :P
The small of your back? What's the small of a back?
Small of your back is the lower half of your spine just above your rear end, the curvy bit or lower lumber for more medical people. ::)
Tzs tzs, naughty naughty...
As Scriabin said.. guys should not flaunt what they have in front of poor guys that have trouble getting women - hint, HINT...
Jealously is a curse, and blaming others for their own faults is not taking responsibility for their own actions is it?
Vito oh Vito you totally surprise me on the lack of a partner thing. :-\ The Girls are just insane looking you over.
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Honestly Orthodox Rabbis are prevented from touching other women in private or public.
He is Orthodox, he is a great Rabbi, and a personal friend.
Then there is obviously something wrong here.
Is he Orthodox or "Orthodox"?
He plays by the rules.
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Honestly Orthodox Rabbis are prevented from touching other women in private or public.
He is Orthodox, he is a great Rabbi, and a personal friend.
Then there is obviously something wrong here.
Is he Orthodox or "Orthodox"?
He plays by the rules.
What do you mean by that?
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Jewish men are not prohibited from simply touching women according to the Rambam and many Orthodox Rabbis. Only the Chassidim and some Charedim prohibit this.
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Well I guess you would have to distinguish what is the motivation in the touching. What is the intent of the person doing the touching and how that touching is understood by the Touchee.
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Honestly Orthodox Rabbis are prevented from touching other women in private or public.
He is Orthodox, he is a great Rabbi, and a personal friend.
Then there is obviously something wrong here.
Is he Orthodox or "Orthodox"?
He plays by the rules.
What do you mean by that?
Exactly that he is a very moral man and never once has being other wise.
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Jewish men are not prohibited from simply touching women according to the Rambam and many Orthodox Rabbis. Only the Chassidim and some Charedim prohibit this.
I've never heard of any frum person saying that they don't need to be "Shomer Negia." It's like saying, "Well... I'm frum, but I'm not Shomer Kashrus."
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Doesn't mean its a bad thing either, why must you make it sound that life would end if you did. Honestly I wonder if any of you have been in any type of relationship :-\
Uh oh.. she's trying to stir up controversy yet again :P
The small of your back? What's the small of a back?
Small of your back is the lower half of your spine just above your rear end, the curvy bit or lower lumber for more medical people. ::)
Tzs tzs, naughty naughty...
As Scriabin said.. guys should not flaunt what they have in front of poor guys that have trouble getting women - hint, HINT...
Jealously is a curse, and blaming others for their own faults is not taking responsibility for their own actions is it?
Vito oh Vito you totally surprise me on the lack of a partner thing. :-\ The Girls are just insane looking you over.
It's called no game.
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Well I guess you would have to distinguish what is the motivation in the touching. What is the intent of the person doing the touching and how that touching is understood by the Touchee.
O0 100%
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Doesn't mean its a bad thing either, why must you make it sound that life would end if you did. Honestly I wonder if any of you have been in any type of relationship :-\
Uh oh.. she's trying to stir up controversy yet again :P
The small of your back? What's the small of a back?
Small of your back is the lower half of your spine just above your rear end, the curvy bit or lower lumber for more medical people. ::)
Tzs tzs, naughty naughty...
As Scriabin said.. guys should not flaunt what they have in front of poor guys that have trouble getting women - hint, HINT...
Jealously is a curse, and blaming others for their own faults is not taking responsibility for their own actions is it?
Vito oh Vito you totally surprise me on the lack of a partner thing. :-\ The Girls are just insane looking you over.
It's called no game.
Awwwwww :(
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Honestly Orthodox Rabbis are prevented from touching other women in private or public.
He is Orthodox, he is a great Rabbi, and a personal friend.
Then there is obviously something wrong here.
Is he Orthodox or "Orthodox"?
He plays by the rules.
What do you mean by that?
Exactly that he is a very moral man and never once has being other wise.
Well, I know very moral people who are not frum. Being moral doesn't mean he's Shomer Mitzvos.
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Doesn't mean its a bad thing either, why must you make it sound that life would end if you did. Honestly I wonder if any of you have been in any type of relationship :-\
Uh oh.. she's trying to stir up controversy yet again :P
The small of your back? What's the small of a back?
Small of your back is the lower half of your spine just above your rear end, the curvy bit or lower lumber for more medical people. ::)
Tzs tzs, naughty naughty...
As Scriabin said.. guys should not flaunt what they have in front of poor guys that have trouble getting women - hint, HINT...
Jealously is a curse, and blaming others for their own faults is not taking responsibility for their own actions is it?
Vito oh Vito you totally surprise me on the lack of a partner thing. :-\ The Girls are just insane looking you over.
It's called no game.
Ugh who wants games, give me a smart, funny and nice guy and thats it ;)
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Hey IQ of 136, I make people laugh ( just ask my co-workers), But I am already married maybe they can do cloning ;D
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According to the simple reading of the Rambam it is irrelevant as to the intent of touching as long as it is not a sexual kind of touching. According to R' Mose Fienstein Zs'l in his letters about touching passers by in a crowded subway train he seems to argue (or at best reads the Rambam differently) and says that touching is allowed only if one doesn't have pleasure from the touching.
Odkahanehchai: Just because people say something is true, does not make it true. Most Jews have no clue what the Rambam writes about this subject or even what the strict Moshe Feinstein writes about it, even he allows it if it isn't with wrong intentions. There are many misconceptions of the general public.
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Honestly Orthodox Rabbis are prevented from touching other women in private or public.
He is Orthodox, he is a great Rabbi, and a personal friend.
Then there is obviously something wrong here.
Is he Orthodox or "Orthodox"?
He plays by the rules.
What do you mean by that?
Exactly that he is a very moral man and never once has being other wise.
Well, I know very moral people who are not frum. Being moral doesn't mean he's Shomer Mitzvos.
I know that and as I said he is completely Orthodox in his ways. And a "Orthodox" Rabbi.
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According to the simple reading of the Rambam it is irrelevant as to the intent of touching as long as it is not a sexual kind of touching. According to R' Mose Fienstein Zs'l in his letters about touching passers by in a crowded subway train he seems to argue (or at best reads the Rambam differently) and says that touching is allowed only if one doesn't have pleasure from the touching.
Odkahanehchai: Just because people say something is true, does not make it true. Most Jews have no clue what the Rambam writes about this subject or even what the strict Moshe Feinstein writes about it, even he allows it if it isn't with wrong intentions. There are many misconceptions of the general public.
R' Feinstein forbids handshakes! Who gets sexual pleasure from a handshake?
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According to the simple reading of the Rambam it is irrelevant as to the intent of touching as long as it is not a sexual kind of touching. According to R' Mose Fienstein Zs'l in his letters about touching passers by in a crowded subway train he seems to argue (or at best reads the Rambam differently) and says that touching is allowed only if one doesn't have pleasure from the touching.
Odkahanehchai: Just because people say something is true, does not make it true. Most Jews have no clue what the Rambam writes about this subject or even what the strict Moshe Feinstein writes about it, even he allows it if it isn't with wrong intentions. There are many misconceptions of the general public.
R' Feinstein forbids handshakes! Who gets sexual pleasure from a handshake?
Some people I know :::D :::D
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Well he (R' Moshe Feinstein) wrote a response to a letter that asked him if it was OK to go into a crowded subway train in rush hour and have women leaning on you and accidentally touching you if it was forbidden and he said that it was fine since the intention wasn't a lustful intention. Show me where you remember him forbidding hand shakes, I would like to know if I am wrong about him. Just for the record I don't generally follow R' Moshe as I consider him too strict although he was a Torah genious.
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The Orthodox Rabbis I know do not shake womens' hands.
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Well he (R' Moshe Feinstein) wrote a response to a letter that asked him if it was OK to go into a crowded subway train in rush hour and have women leaning on you and accidentally touching you if it was forbidden and he said that it was fine since the intention wasn't a lustful intention. Show me where you remember him forbidding hand shakes, I would like to know if I am wrong about him. Just for the record I don't generally follow R' Moshe as I consider him too strict although he was a Torah genious.
It's in Iggros Moshe, Orach Chayim. I will try to find for you the exact place.
I think he said that about a crowded subway because the touching is not intentional.
Also, all women over the age of 11 are assumed to be Niddah, so you have another problem there.
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Doesn't mean its a bad thing either, why must you make it sound that life would end if you did. Honestly I wonder if any of you have been in any type of relationship :-\
Uh oh.. she's trying to stir up controversy yet again :P
The small of your back? What's the small of a back?
Small of your back is the lower half of your spine just above your rear end, the curvy bit or lower lumber for more medical people. ::)
Tzs tzs, naughty naughty...
As Scriabin said.. guys should not flaunt what they have in front of poor guys that have trouble getting women - hint, HINT...
Jealously is a curse, and blaming others for their own faults is not taking responsibility for their own actions is it?
Vito oh Vito you totally surprise me on the lack of a partner thing. :-\ The Girls are just insane looking you over.
It's called no game.
Awwwwww :(
Yeah that's about all that can be said about that ::)
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Doesn't mean its a bad thing either, why must you make it sound that life would end if you did. Honestly I wonder if any of you have been in any type of relationship :-\
Uh oh.. she's trying to stir up controversy yet again :P
The small of your back? What's the small of a back?
Small of your back is the lower half of your spine just above your rear end, the curvy bit or lower lumber for more medical people. ::)
Tzs tzs, naughty naughty...
As Scriabin said.. guys should not flaunt what they have in front of poor guys that have trouble getting women - hint, HINT...
Jealously is a curse, and blaming others for their own faults is not taking responsibility for their own actions is it?
Vito oh Vito you totally surprise me on the lack of a partner thing. :-\ The Girls are just insane looking you over.
It's called no game.
Awwwwww :(
Yeah that's about all that can be said about that ::)
Come to Australia you would have many Girls falling over you.
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Are they appropriate among couples? O0
Yes...(My opinion only). I'm no exhibitionist but it warms my heart to see elderly couples as well as young lovers hold hands and even kiss each other in public. If we, my girls and I, were ever walking down the street, they'd spot PDA people before I do. My little one even said, one day when she saw an elderly couple hugging and holding hands "Mommy, they are loving each other." I think its healthy for children to see what that part of a great relationship looks like. I grew up watching my mom being beaten by her exboyfriend. I'd rather my girls see their dad and I kissing, outside or in the house than for them to see no affection from us at all.
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Doesn't mean its a bad thing either, why must you make it sound that life would end if you did. Honestly I wonder if any of you have been in any type of relationship :-\
Uh oh.. she's trying to stir up controversy yet again :P
The small of your back? What's the small of a back?
Small of your back is the lower half of your spine just above your rear end, the curvy bit or lower lumber for more medical people. ::)
Tzs tzs, naughty naughty...
As Scriabin said.. guys should not flaunt what they have in front of poor guys that have trouble getting women - hint, HINT...
Jealously is a curse, and blaming others for their own faults is not taking responsibility for their own actions is it?
Vito oh Vito you totally surprise me on the lack of a partner thing. :-\ The Girls are just insane looking you over.
It's called no game.
Awwwwww :(
Yeah that's about all that can be said about that ::)
Come to Australia you would have many Girls falling over you.
The sad part is I was really considering going down there to try to meet women lol. Only problem.. how do I woo one enough to come back with me? :) Do they even like American accents there?
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I think some people just need to show respect to others.
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Doesn't mean its a bad thing either, why must you make it sound that life would end if you did. Honestly I wonder if any of you have been in any type of relationship :-\
Uh oh.. she's trying to stir up controversy yet again :P
The small of your back? What's the small of a back?
Small of your back is the lower half of your spine just above your rear end, the curvy bit or lower lumber for more medical people. ::)
Tzs tzs, naughty naughty...
As Scriabin said.. guys should not flaunt what they have in front of poor guys that have trouble getting women - hint, HINT...
Jealously is a curse, and blaming others for their own faults is not taking responsibility for their own actions is it?
Vito oh Vito you totally surprise me on the lack of a partner thing. :-\ The Girls are just insane looking you over.
It's called no game.
Awwwwww :(
Yeah that's about all that can be said about that ::)
Come to Australia you would have many Girls falling over you.
The sad part is I was really considering going down there to try to meet women lol. Only problem.. how do I woo one enough to come back with me? :) Do they even like American accents there?
ha ha yes!
my sister was VERY popular lol (ok shes gorgeous too lol and yes im bias) she had NO problem the Australian guys loved her.....she married one AND brought him back, they have been married 4 years and just had a baby Dec 28 :)
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The sad part is I was really considering going down there to try to meet women lol. Only problem.. how do I woo one enough to come back with me? :) Do they even like American accents there?
You have the whole thing going on, and yes accent is never a problem. Why do you think American men are not greatly liked by most Aussie men, because you are preferred.
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ha ha yes!
my sister was VERY popular lol (ok shes gorgeous too lol and yes im bias) she had NO problem the Australian guys loved her.....she married one AND brought him back, they have been married 4 years and just had a baby Dec 28 :)
Females are different, they just need to be females lol
The sad part is I was really considering going down there to try to meet women lol. Only problem.. how do I woo one enough to come back with me? :) Do they even like American accents there?
You have the whole thing going on, and yes accent is never a problem. Why do you think American men are not greatly liked by most Aussie men, because you are preferred.
Hah, if that's the case I'll be crashing at your house sometime soon ;) Hopefully Aussie girls are warmer than American girls..
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ha ha yes!
my sister was VERY popular lol (ok shes gorgeous too lol and yes im bias) she had NO problem the Australian guys loved her.....she married one AND brought him back, they have been married 4 years and just had a baby Dec 28 :)
Females are different, they just need to be females lol
The sad part is I was really considering going down there to try to meet women lol. Only problem.. how do I woo one enough to come back with me? :) Do they even like American accents there?
You have the whole thing going on, and yes accent is never a problem. Why do you think American men are not greatly liked by most Aussie men, because you are preferred.
Hah, if that's the case I'll be crashing at your house sometime soon ;) Hopefully Aussie girls are warmer than American girls..
You are very welcome, I have a guest area O0
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Skippy, no offense but you TOTALLY took this the wrong way and I was NOT even mentioning "hell" WTH?
I was just saying to NOT touch for privacy reasons. There is a BIG difference from me saying that it could be kept private compared to YOUR version of sinning and hell.
I don't even think its a "sin" so I have no clue where you got this from.
Why would you think this anyways? ???
Because quite honestly I am a very moral Jewish woman, you are making it sound so loose to even be touched by a man.
My rabbi has even touched me in public. Does that make it bad as well? No its called being a human.
I touch people everyday in public, I have people coming and hugging me. Some oh yes get the stones out! They even kiss me. Does that make me a scarlet woman?
On well then it must, because every day I hug and kiss a fella who is not my husband, he is my baby nephew and trust me I don't care whos looking.
I still feel that you are taking it too far and you don't see the point.
I never wrote that it was horribly wrong! I don't understand WHY you insist on turning this into "scarlet woman" and "sins" and "hell"
Was I talking about that?? NO!
I just said it was good to not touch for privacy reasons regarding the laws of Niddah BUT that some people might not care for the privacy of it. I didn't say people should never touch under penalty of whatever, I said SOME people prefer not to, other prefer to touch.
THIS is soooooooooooooo much more different to what you are now saying.
I DON'T understand WHY you are turning into an argument over how you touch people. I don't care what you do or who touches you, it doesn't concern me OR anything I wrote about.
I still can't believe you've taken this the wrong way, its kind of painful for me to read all this and how some opinions about choosing to not touch are being turned into "hell" and "A Scarlet woman"
Who do you think I am? Someone who condemns people for touching in public? :'( WOW I CAN'T believe this.
I am sorry Mills but thats exactly what it sounded like to me. And I am not turning this into an argument can't I state my thoughts here any more.
Just Great!
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I am sorry Mills but thats exactly what it sounded like to me. And I am not turning this into an argument can't I state my thoughts here any more.
Just Great!
Come on! Out of EVERYONE in the forum, just YOU took it this way?
And where did you get the "hell" from anyways? I personally feel attacked. I feel that my words were being changed. But that is all I will say on the matter.
BUT I am sure many others will agree that my post was NOT condemning ANYONE who "touches" I said it was a choice to either protect the privacy or not. YOU are the one who went off topic and started to say "hell" and "scarlet woman" which when one looks at the post is completely out of place.
And you disregard the fact that I DO NOT care if men and women touch! Since its a choice and I don't want people to be forced to do things they don't want. You can touch men in public for all I care.
I am shocked. That's all I will say on the topic. But I wont forget.
But when you go around taking things out of context in a manner that makes people feel that their words were changed and keep at it, its kind of like....arguing.
But I made my point, everyone knows how I feel and wont argue the matter.
My fellow JTFers, YOU be the judges....was my post condemning those who touch to "hell"? I don't think so.
I will drop it.
Whatever Mills.
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besides is not the concept of "hell" a christian concept anyways. We will be judged on our actions and inactions according to Torah. But "Hell" I do not think so im my best I love lucy cuban accent.
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Skippy, no offense but you TOTALLY took this the wrong way and I was NOT even mentioning "hell" WTH?
I was just saying to NOT touch for privacy reasons. There is a BIG difference from me saying that it could be kept private compared to YOUR version of sinning and hell.
I don't even think its a "sin" so I have no clue where you got this from.
Why would you think this anyways? ???
Because quite honestly I am a very moral Jewish woman, you are making it sound so loose to even be touched by a man.
My rabbi has even touched me in public. Does that make it bad as well? No its called being a human.
I touch people everyday in public, I have people coming and hugging me. Some oh yes get the stones out! They even kiss me. Does that make me a scarlet woman?
On well then it must, because every day I hug and kiss a fella who is not my husband, he is my baby nephew and trust me I don't care whos looking.
I still feel that you are taking it too far and you don't see the point.
I never wrote that it was horribly wrong! I don't understand WHY you insist on turning this into "scarlet woman" and "sins" and "hell"
Was I talking about that?? NO!
I just said it was good to not touch for privacy reasons regarding the laws of Niddah BUT that some people might not care for the privacy of it. I didn't say people should never touch under penalty of whatever, I said SOME people prefer not to, other prefer to touch.
THIS is soooooooooooooo much more different to what you are now saying.
I DON'T understand WHY you are turning into an argument over how you touch people. I don't care what you do or who touches you, it doesn't concern me OR anything I wrote about.
I still can't believe you've taken this the wrong way, its kind of painful for me to read all this and how some opinions about choosing to not touch are being turned into "hell" and "A Scarlet woman"
Who do you think I am? Someone who condemns people for touching in public? :'( WOW I CAN'T believe this.
I am sorry Mills but thats exactly what it sounded like to me. And I am not turning this into an argument can't I state my thoughts here any more.
Just Great!
Skippy, take a deep breath.
Take a jump
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I am sorry Mills but thats exactly what it sounded like to me. And I am not turning this into an argument can't I state my thoughts here any more.
Just Great!
Come on! Out of EVERYONE in the forum, just YOU took it this way?
And where did you get the "hell" from anyways? I personally feel attacked. I feel that my words were being changed. But that is all I will say on the matter.
BUT I am sure many others will agree that my post was NOT condemning ANYONE who "touches" I said it was a choice to either protect the privacy or not. YOU are the one who went off topic and started to say "hell" and "scarlet woman" which when one looks at the post is completely out of place.
And you disregard the fact that I DO NOT care if men and women touch! Since its a choice and I don't want people to be forced to do things they don't want. You can touch men in public for all I care.
I am shocked. That's all I will say on the topic. But I wont forget.
But when you go around taking things out of context in a manner that makes people feel that their words were changed and keep at it, its kind of like....arguing.
But I made my point, everyone knows how I feel and wont argue the matter.
My fellow JTFers, YOU be the judges....was my post condemning those who touch to "hell"? I don't think so.
I will drop it.
Mills, I COMPLETELY understand what you're saying.
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Okay boys and girls lets try and behave as adults for our Guest and Enemies. TY in advance.
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Skippy, no offense but you TOTALLY took this the wrong way and I was NOT even mentioning "hell" WTH?
I was just saying to NOT touch for privacy reasons. There is a BIG difference from me saying that it could be kept private compared to YOUR version of sinning and hell.
I don't even think its a "sin" so I have no clue where you got this from.
Why would you think this anyways? ???
Because quite honestly I am a very moral Jewish woman, you are making it sound so loose to even be touched by a man.
My rabbi has even touched me in public. Does that make it bad as well? No its called being a human.
I touch people everyday in public, I have people coming and hugging me. Some oh yes get the stones out! They even kiss me. Does that make me a scarlet woman?
On well then it must, because every day I hug and kiss a fella who is not my husband, he is my baby nephew and trust me I don't care whos looking.
I still feel that you are taking it too far and you don't see the point.
I never wrote that it was horribly wrong! I don't understand WHY you insist on turning this into "scarlet woman" and "sins" and "hell"
Was I talking about that?? NO!
I just said it was good to not touch for privacy reasons regarding the laws of Niddah BUT that some people might not care for the privacy of it. I didn't say people should never touch under penalty of whatever, I said SOME people prefer not to, other prefer to touch.
THIS is soooooooooooooo much more different to what you are now saying.
I DON'T understand WHY you are turning into an argument over how you touch people. I don't care what you do or who touches you, it doesn't concern me OR anything I wrote about.
I still can't believe you've taken this the wrong way, its kind of painful for me to read all this and how some opinions about choosing to not touch are being turned into "hell" and "A Scarlet woman"
Who do you think I am? Someone who condemns people for touching in public? :'( WOW I CAN'T believe this.
I am sorry Mills but thats exactly what it sounded like to me. And I am not turning this into an argument can't I state my thoughts here any more.
Just Great!
Skippy, take a deep breath.
Take a jump
Wow! You're So angry.
I'm SO happy.
Freak
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besides is not the concept of "hell" a christian concept anyways. We will be judged on our actions and inactions according to Torah. But "Hell" I do not think so im my best I love lucy cuban accent.
Christians are also judged based on their actions according to the Bible... but holding hands isn't really one of the requirements for hell lol. But back in the old days couples didn't hold hands, my 100 year old aunt told me that :)
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Skippy, no offense but you TOTALLY took this the wrong way and I was NOT even mentioning "hell" WTH?
I was just saying to NOT touch for privacy reasons. There is a BIG difference from me saying that it could be kept private compared to YOUR version of sinning and hell.
I don't even think its a "sin" so I have no clue where you got this from.
Why would you think this anyways? ???
Because quite honestly I am a very moral Jewish woman, you are making it sound so loose to even be touched by a man.
My rabbi has even touched me in public. Does that make it bad as well? No its called being a human.
I touch people everyday in public, I have people coming and hugging me. Some oh yes get the stones out! They even kiss me. Does that make me a scarlet woman?
On well then it must, because every day I hug and kiss a fella who is not my husband, he is my baby nephew and trust me I don't care whos looking.
I still feel that you are taking it too far and you don't see the point.
I never wrote that it was horribly wrong! I don't understand WHY you insist on turning this into "scarlet woman" and "sins" and "hell"
Was I talking about that?? NO!
I just said it was good to not touch for privacy reasons regarding the laws of Niddah BUT that some people might not care for the privacy of it. I didn't say people should never touch under penalty of whatever, I said SOME people prefer not to, other prefer to touch.
THIS is soooooooooooooo much more different to what you are now saying.
I DON'T understand WHY you are turning into an argument over how you touch people. I don't care what you do or who touches you, it doesn't concern me OR anything I wrote about.
I still can't believe you've taken this the wrong way, its kind of painful for me to read all this and how some opinions about choosing to not touch are being turned into "hell" and "A Scarlet woman"
Who do you think I am? Someone who condemns people for touching in public? :'( WOW I CAN'T believe this.
I am sorry Mills but thats exactly what it sounded like to me. And I am not turning this into an argument can't I state my thoughts here any more.
Just Great!
Skippy, take a deep breath.
Take a jump
Wow! You're So angry.
I'm SO happy.
Freak
Thank you.
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Come on Skippy, calm down.. this always happens with you...
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besides is not the concept of "hell" a christian concept anyways. We will be judged on our actions and inactions according to Torah. But "Hell" I do not think so im my best I love lucy cuban accent.
Actually there is a concept of Hell, but it's more of a Purgatory...
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Come on Skippy, calm down.. this always happens with you...
Thanks Vito always knew you would jump on the band wagon too..........
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besides is not the concept of "hell" a christian concept anyways. We will be judged on our actions and inactions according to Torah. But "Hell" I do not think so im my best I love lucy cuban accent.
Actually there is a concept of Hell, but it's more of a Purgatory...
Which many say we live in, rather than doing there when we die.
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besides is not the concept of "hell" a christian concept anyways. We will be judged on our actions and inactions according to Torah. But "Hell" I do not think so im my best I love lucy cuban accent.
Actually there is a concept of Hell, but it's more of a Purgatory...
Which many say we live in, rather than doing there when we die.
Not most, though. This is how Rebbetzin Lori Palatnik explained it (this is how it was told to her husband when they were in Toronto):
"Do you have World-Class hospitals in Toronto?"
"Yes, we actually do have several World-Class hospitals."
"Are you happy for the fact that you have World-Class hospitals."
"Yes, I am."
"So, tell me - would you like to have to check in to one of those World-Class hospitals?"...
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besides is not the concept of "hell" a christian concept anyways. We will be judged on our actions and inactions according to Torah. But "Hell" I do not think so im my best I love lucy cuban accent.
Actually there is a concept of Hell, but it's more of a Purgatory...
Which many say we live in, rather than doing there when we die.
Not most, though. This is how Rebbetzin Lori Palatnik explained it (this is how it was told to her husband when they were in Toronto):
"Do you have World-Class hospitals in Toronto?"
"Yes, we actually do have several World-Class hospitals."
"Are you happy for the fact that you have World-Class hospitals."
"Yes, I am."
"So, tell me - would you like to have to check in to one of those World-Class hospitals?"...
Why would you want to be in canada in the first place ::)
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besides is not the concept of "hell" a christian concept anyways. We will be judged on our actions and inactions according to Torah. But "Hell" I do not think so im my best I love lucy cuban accent.
Actually there is a concept of Hell, but it's more of a Purgatory...
Which many say we live in, rather than doing there when we die.
Not most, though. This is how Rebbetzin Lori Palatnik explained it (this is how it was told to her husband when they were in Toronto):
"Do you have World-Class hospitals in Toronto?"
"Yes, we actually do have several World-Class hospitals."
"Are you happy for the fact that you have World-Class hospitals."
"Yes, I am."
"So, tell me - would you like to have to check in to one of those World-Class hospitals?"...
Why would you want to be in canada in the first place ::)
That's a question for her, not me.
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besides is not the concept of "hell" a christian concept anyways. We will be judged on our actions and inactions according to Torah. But "Hell" I do not think so im my best I love lucy cuban accent.
Actually there is a concept of Hell, but it's more of a Purgatory...
Which many say we live in, rather than doing there when we die.
Not most, though. This is how Rebbetzin Lori Palatnik explained it (this is how it was told to her husband when they were in Toronto):
"Do you have World-Class hospitals in Toronto?"
"Yes, we actually do have several World-Class hospitals."
"Are you happy for the fact that you have World-Class hospitals."
"Yes, I am."
"So, tell me - would you like to have to check in to one of those World-Class hospitals?"...
Why would you want to be in canada in the first place ::)
That's a question for her, not me.
Could you pass it on I don't know her
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besides is not the concept of "hell" a christian concept anyways. We will be judged on our actions and inactions according to Torah. But "Hell" I do not think so im my best I love lucy cuban accent.
Actually there is a concept of Hell, but it's more of a Purgatory...
Which many say we live in, rather than doing there when we die.
Not most, though. This is how Rebbetzin Lori Palatnik explained it (this is how it was told to her husband when they were in Toronto):
"Do you have World-Class hospitals in Toronto?"
"Yes, we actually do have several World-Class hospitals."
"Are you happy for the fact that you have World-Class hospitals."
"Yes, I am."
"So, tell me - would you like to have to check in to one of those World-Class hospitals?"...
Why would you want to be in canada in the first place ::)
That's a question for her, not me.
Could you pass it on I don't know her
I don't know her either. She has a video blog on aish.com (http://aish.com).
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I have been made aware that several fellow JTFers go dogging for recreational purposes.
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Jewish men are not prohibited from simply touching women according to the Rambam and many Orthodox Rabbis. Only the Chassidim and some Charedim prohibit this.
You are right, there are opinions that say that non-affectionate touching is permitted under certain circumstances, while there are others that say that Shomer Negia is de'oraita and therefore touching is always forbidden. However, it is a matter of humra that the former group mentioned strive to avoid touching woman as much as possible for the possibility, however small or large, that the touching will lead to the matters that I will enumerate below. According my own reading of the Rambam, you can't even go near her. There are matters of Derech Hiba, whether the touching was affectionate.
"...Or if he hugged and kissed in a lustful manner or derived pleasure from the closeness of the flesh, then he gets flogged by Torah law...'That you should not do the abomidable statutes'...'Don't come close to uncover the shame'... meaning don't come near to those things that lead to sexual immorality...a person is forbidden to make signs with his hands or feet or eyes... or to play with her, or to be light-headed with her... even to smell the perfumes that she is wearing or to gaze at her beauty is forbidden... we flog someone who intends to do these things... even if one sees the little finger of a woman with the intention of enjoying it, it is as if he has looked at the genital area... even to hear the voice of the woman... or to look at her hair--it is forbidden."
For everyone else who is wondering how then can one get married, the Rambam goes on to list the permissibility of looking at a woman in a certain way for the sake of matrimony and dating.
I'll say one thing about a married man who practices shomer negia...it's rather nice when his wife knows that her husband only thinks of her and doesn't even look at another woman..
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Jewish men are not prohibited from simply touching women according to the Rambam and many Orthodox Rabbis. Only the Chassidim and some Charedim prohibit this.
You are right, there are opinions that say that non-affectionate touching is permitted under certain circumstances, while there are others that say that Shomer Negia is de'oraita and therefore touching is always forbidden. However, it is a matter of humra that the former group mentioned strive to avoid touching woman as much as possible for the possibility, however small or large, that the touching will lead to the matters that I will enumerate below. According my own reading of the Rambam, you can't even go near her. There are matters of Derech Hiba, whether the touching was affectionate.
"...Or if he hugged and kissed in a lustful manner or derived pleasure from the closeness of the flesh, then he gets flogged by Torah law...'That you should not do the abomidable statutes'...'Don't come close to uncover the shame'... meaning don't come near to those things that lead to sexual immorality...a person is forbidden to make signs with his hands or feet or eyes... or to play with her, or to be light-headed with her... even to smell the perfumes that she is wearing or to gaze at her beauty is forbidden... we flog someone who intends to do these things... even if one sees the little finger of a woman with the intention of enjoying it, it is as if he has looked at the genital area... even to hear the voice of the woman... or to look at her hair--it is forbidden."
For everyone else who is wondering how then can one get married, the Rambam goes on to list the permissibility of looking at a woman in a certain way for the sake of matrimony and dating.
I'll say one thing about a married man who practices shomer negia...it's rather nice when his wife knows that her husband only thinks of her and doesn't even look at another woman..
Amen, Doc. :)
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"...Or if he hugged and kissed in a lustful manner or derived pleasure from the closeness of the flesh, then he gets flogged by Torah law...'That you should not do the abomidable statutes'...'Don't come close to uncover the shame'... meaning don't come near to those things that lead to sexual immorality...a person is forbidden to make signs with his hands or feet or eyes... or to play with her, or to be light-headed with her... even to smell the perfumes that she is wearing or to gaze at her beauty is forbidden... we flog someone who intends to do these things... even if one sees the little finger of a woman with the intention of enjoying it, it is as if he has looked at the genital area... even to hear the voice of the woman... or to look at her hair--it is forbidden."
So then why do religious women wear makeup or perfume since it will attract men to look at them?
They wear make up or perfume not to attract men, but because he makes them feel good to look good.
Yaacov, why do men or women wear nice clothing? Because it can make one feel good to wear something nice and give that person confidence..and with that confidence help others...and be an effective person.
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All this prudishness.
Obviously people don't want to see people making out in public, but come on! Will touching your wife in public or going arm in arm be SO disastrous?
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All this prudishness.
Obviously people don't want to see people making out in public, but come on! Will touching your wife in public or going arm in arm be SO disastrous?
One thing always leads to another, + their are other issues involved (because people would know when a lady a nidda, which is just not proper for others to know), and in the right society (and their are places that exist like this today) kids should not be exposed to these things incorrectly at least. First they will see married couples kissing, etc. and then they will do the same with others. And their are other issues involved.
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Yes, of course you would PUBLICLY WANT to display your affection, with someone that you LOVE..holding hands, is very nice.
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no comment
No comment is also a comment :)
Private displays of affection are ok. Public eh not so much
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I'm going to second that....
you got it lol
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He is Orthodox, he is a great Rabbi, and a personal friend.
i am sure he is all those. Whats his name so I can be friends with him too?