JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Israel Chai on March 21, 2012, 11:32:10 AM
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<removed useless post>
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your teacher hates women then.
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Why do you condemn Islamists for stoning their women to death while you call for stoning homosexuals to death ? You and them have a lot in common : you both justify cruel actions against people who haven't done any harm to you just because you believe that the Book you consider as holy commands you to do so in order not to go to Hell. Your logic and your motives are quite the same.
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You don't stone a man to death just because he is a homosexual not promoting his homosexuality and keeping it private. It's basic moral sense.
I won't answer your question because both alternatives you suggest are unacceptable. There is no danger of all Jewish men becoming gays anyway, only a small minority of Jews are homosexual, so why ask this absurd question ?
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In the situation of this movie, an innocent was found guilty of something she never did that lead to her stoning. It shows how cruel and backward Islam is.
On a different note, adultery is terrible sin, and practicing homosexuality is equally as terrible. Those who prance around encouraging it and proudly doing it deserve a punishment. I dont know what it should be and prefer to understand how a death penalty by stoning matches with perfect justice with animals who do those things. Perhaps muman can dig something up in regards to that.
Now, should a person who privately practice homosexuality or adultery deserve the sane death sentence. Clearly in that regard, they have fear for doing this evil behavior. Perhaps a person who sins and also fears Gd can be saved. So in that regard, I'm less inclined to believe in a death penalty for those types. And if I'm halachically wrong, please correct my way of thinking.
For the homosexuals who don't practice homosexuality, whether it us a friend or family member, Gd forbid, they should be loved and treated with compassion...extra compassion, and should never be humiliated. Why? Because a homosexual who doesn't have the sexual comfort he needs will seek it and therefore sin, if he isn't treated the way I was suggesting, IMO.
So my suggestion here is to hate the behavior, but to not hate the person who used to behave that way or wants to stop doing it. Hate the wicked and those who have prudence in doing and justifying evil behavior.
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In the situation of this movie, an innocent was found guilty of something she never did that lead to her stoning. It shows how cruel and backward Islam is.
On a different note, adultery is terrible sin, and practicing homosexuality is equally as terrible. Those who prance around encouraging it and proudly doing it deserve a punishment. I dont know what it should be and prefer to understand how a death penalty by stoning matches with perfect justice with animals who do those things. Perhaps muman can dig something up in regards to that.
Now, should a person who privately practice homosexuality or adultery deserve the sane death sentence. Clearly in that regard, they have fear for doing this evil behavior. Perhaps a person who sins and also fears Gd can be saved. So in that regard, I'm less inclined to believe in a death penalty for those types. And if I'm halachically wrong, please correct my way of thinking.
For the homosexuals who don't practice homosexuality, whether it us a friend or family member, Gd forbid, they should be loved and treated with compassion...extra compassion, and should never be humiliated. Why? Because a homosexual who doesn't have the sexual comfort he needs will seek it and therefore sin, if he isn't treated the way I was suggesting, IMO.
So my suggestion here is to hate the behavior, but to not hate the person who used to behave that way or wants to stop doing it. Hate the wicked and those who have prudence in doing and justifying evil behavior.
According to Halacha the level of evidence required to execute is high. Two witnesses, the violator must have been warned prior to committing the transgression, and the warning must have been within a certain amount of time before the actual transgression...
I agree that both adultery and homosexual relations are abominations to Hashem. I believe this is why the statement "Have no other G-d" and "Thou shall not commit adultery" are paired. Command 2 <--> Command 6... Having other G-ds is tantamount to committing adultery against Hashem...
This is based on the idea that the 2 tablets of the Aserat HaDibroth/Ten Commandments represent two kinds of relationships. The First tablet represents commands between G-D and Man and the second tablet represents commands between Man and his Fellow {bein adam le chavero}...
http://www.torah.org/learning/business-ethics/yisro.html
Our sages spoke of the 5 commandments that are between Mankind and G-d and the later 5 that are between people. However, their purpose was in no way to separate religion from morality. On the contrary, their separation makes the social crimes two fold, once between people and secondly at the same time acts against the G-d who commanded all of them. Thereby, social, sexual and economic immorality, all become religious sins. Idolatry [Deut.12: 31], sexual immorality [Lev. 18: 26-27) and theft [Deut.25:16] are all considered abominations in the Torah. "The beginning of Your word is truth and Your just commandments are forever " (Ps.119). Rava explained that from the conclusions of the Ten Commandments- mitzvoth bein adam le chavero- we learnt the truth of the first ones between adam la makom. Rashi, quoting the midrash, tells us that the nations of the world were offered the Torah first. They complained that the Lord was no different from other gods or kings and gave commandments solely for His own aggrandizement and glory. Later, when they heard the social 5 commandments, they confessed that the beginning ones were perfect truth.( Talmud, Kiddushin, 31a)
PS: The Psalms support your assertions concerning 'fear of G-d' or 'Yirat Shamayim'...
The beginning of wisdom is the fear of G-d.
Psalms 111:10
http://www.neveh.org/winston/forest/forest02.html
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Now about hypothetically putting homosexuals to death, how do those of you who support such a thing plan on implementing that policy? How would you propose monitoring what people do in the privacy of their own homes?
Also, if you believe homosexuals should be put to death, what about Jews who break Shabbat? If you remember from the Torah, Moshe Rabbeinu ordered a man who was gathering wood on Shabbat to be stoned to death. There are quite a few of those types around these days. On the other hand, I don't remember reading anything about homosexuals who were stoned to death, although the act is described as an abomination. If you're going to argue that homosexuals deserve to be put to death, you need to at least be consistent.
On another note, Chaim has said on past Ask JTF shows that throughout the history of Biblical Israel, capital punishment was meted out *very* rarely. Kahane Was Right BT has also posted about this.
Anyway, if you're against homosexuality, you're against it. Fine. But why focus so much on homosexuals as opposed to people committing adultery, murder, taking G-d's name in vain, breaking Shabbat, etc.
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Now about hypothetically putting homosexuals to death, how do those of you who support such a thing plan on implementing that policy? How would you propose monitoring what people do in the privacy of their own homes?
Also, if you believe homosexuals should be put to death, what about Jews who break Shabbat? If you remember from the Torah, Moshe Rabbeinu ordered a man who was gathering wood on Shabbat to be stoned to death. There are quite a few of those types around these days. On the other hand, I don't remember reading anything about homosexuals who were stoned to death, although the act is described as an abomination. If you're going to argue that homosexuals deserve to be put to death, you need to at least be consistent.
On another note, Chaim has said on past Ask JTF shows that throughout the history of Biblical Israel, capital punishment was meted out *very* rarely. Kahane Was Right BT has also posted about this.
Anyway, if you're against homosexuality, you're against it. Fine. But why focus so much on homosexuals as opposed to people committing adultery, murder, taking G-d's name in vain, breaking Shabbat, etc.
Maybe you didn't notice that I made this very comment only 3 posts ago...
PS: I guess I posted it in another thread...
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,60262.msg540264.html#msg540264
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Relax Muman. You have your way of expressing yourself in writing and I have mine. We're obviously in agreement here. Also, I don't see why I wouldn't be allowed to join in this discussion.
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Relax Muman. You have your way of expressing yourself in writing and I have mine. We're obviously in agreement here. Also, I don't see why I wouldn't be allowed to join in this discussion.
I have no problem with your input nor your opinion. I just have been answering these questions for a while here. What you said is obviously true, as what Dan Ben Noah has said about this...
Im sorry if you felt I was objecting to your involvement...
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Regarding the death penalty in Jewish law the following article makes some of the points I wanted to make...
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1269629/jewish/Why-Are-Torah-Punishments-So-Harsh.htm
Why Are Torah Punishments So Harsh?
By Yehuda Shurpin
Question:
I know there is an infinite, loving G‑d. It's just that I can't get my head around a few things in the Torah, like death penalties for gays, wizards, and people who curse their parents. Even if these people have erred, couldn't they just be asked to stop or be punished with exile? That's why it's hard to believe that a G‑d who can make a billion galaxies and stars would want us to kill over different beliefs.
Response:
Before answering your question, it's worthwhile to note just how difficult it actually is to impose the death penalty in Jewish law.
First of all, circumstantial evidence won't cut it. You need two impeccable witnesses who had observed the person transgressing an act punishable by death. Next, these two witnesses had to have warned the person of the capital punishment he could receive for doing the prohibited act, even if he already knew. Finally, the person must have committed the transgression immediately after the warning. Any hesitation and the death penalty is off. The same applies to other forms of punishment.
To meet all of these conditions and incur the death penalty seems more like committing suicide then simply transgressing.
Nevertheless, the questions remains: As long as you are not hurting anyone else, sinning is your own private business. Why should you receive any sort of punishment? To get to the bottom of this, let's fly to the moon.
On December 24, 1968, the crew of Apollo 8 made history as the first astronauts to go into orbit around both sides of the moon and beam back pictures of the lunar landscape. The next day, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, of blessed memory, discussed a lesson to be learned from the event.1
Central Command trains the astronauts how to eat, sleep, dress, and behave in all areas of their life while on board. Deviations, they are told, can mean the waste of billions of dollars. Hearing that such large sums of government money are at stake, the astronauts take every detail of their instructions very seriously.
Moreover, astronaut compliance has nothing to do with how much, if at all, they understand the benefits of the instructions, or the damage caused by not complying. Only the experts on the ground, who spent years researching the issues, know all the specific details. Therefore, the astronauts follow orders without question, even if they don't know the entire reasoning behind everything, because they understand that there are dire consequences for themselves and their team members.
Neither does an astronaut say, "Look, I'm only one of three—which makes me the minority. So if I don't do everything correctly, it's not going to make such a difference." Rather, he knows that any one miscalculation on his part endangers not only himself, but the other two astronauts as well.
Like a flight manual, the Torah guides and instructs us for a safe mission through life. In it, G‑d warns us of the 365 don'ts (the negative commandments) that can derail us and jeopardize our life mission. We don't always know why certain actions are more damaging and dangerous than others, and therefore carry a more severe punishment. But Mission Control does. So we listen.
Moreover, our decisions impact not only ourselves, but our friends, family, community, and the entire world. Actually, the entire idea can be found in a Midrash, composed long before anyone dreamed of space travel:
Moses exclaimed, "One person sins, and You are angry at the entire community?"2
Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai taught a parable for this, of people sitting in a boat. One of them took a drill and began drilling underneath his seat.
"What are you doing?" demanded his friends.
"What concern is it of yours?" he responded. "Am I not drilling under my own seat?"
They said to him: "Yes, but the waters will come up and drown the entire boat."3
The Mishnah states, "Why was the human being created alone? ... To teach you that every person must say: For me the world was created."4 This world, as well as all of the spiritual realms leading to it, was created for each and every person individually. As Maimonides teaches, "A person should always view himself and the entire world as if it is exactly balanced. If he does one mitzvah, he is meritorious, for he has weighed himself and the entire world to the side of merit, and he has caused for himself and for all, salvation and redemption."5
Taking all this into account, let's look back at our situation: We're talking about a very stable, Torah-directed society—evidenced by the fact that there is a Bet Din that has the power to enforce Jewish law. We are talking about a community where people know the difference between right and wrong and only very rarely does someone step out of those boundaries. One person comes along and decides to do something totally outrageous, despite a warning from two witnesses and right in front of them, knowing exactly what he is doing and what will happen to him for doing it. Basically, drilling a hole in a watertight boat for every and any sin to enter.
Truthfully, I doubt that such cases occurred too often. Rabbi Akiva was of the opinion that a court that issues a death sentence once in 70 years is a murderous court. But the message is there: Don't imagine you're an island to yourself. Think twice before sinning. The entire world depends on you.
FOOTNOTES
1. Sichot Kodesh 5729 - Vol. 1, p. 252; Vol. 2, pp. 341-f, 341-v, 413.
2. Bamidbar, 16:22.
3. Vayikra Rabba 4:6.
4. Sanhedrin, 4:5.
5. Hilchot Teshuvah 3:4.
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Lisa: I don't advocate putting gays to death (I think they should be sent to mental institutions if they refuse to stop), but to answer your question as to why so much focus on them, the answer would be that they want special attention and focus on themselves. You don't see organized movements to force the public to accept adultery, rape, incest, etc. as laudable institutions.
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Some people here compare homosexuality and adultery. In my opinion, it can be argued that adultery is actually worse than homosexuality because adultery means breaking your word and betraying someone : you are clearly hurting someone and, moreover, the very person to whom you have vowed fidelity. Prohibition of adultery is one of the ten commandments, prohibition of homosexuality is not (although it is clearly forbidden by the Torah).
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All sin is equal before g-d, but as its been noted that I should mention, require diffrent earthly punishments. Not so here. Hashem hates sin because it is evil mixed with pleasure, not one or the other, so it is corruption.
I disagree with your statement regardless. Being only gay is a violation of the second commandement to the first man, and you are a gay fornicator. If you are an aduterous gay, thank g-d you didn't do it with a women, because that's worse in stupid land.
There is way too much acceptance of gays in Judaism and Christianity these days. You say its not so bad? What about teaching children that being gay is natural and good? Or that its not so bad? That's just thou shalt not lie. Must only deserve a stern look. You're way off here.
I never advocated gay conduct. On the contrary, I strongly reject the promotion of homosexuality. Of course I am opposed to teaching children that being gay is natural and good.
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By the way, zealot, I am not gay since you seem to assume that I am a "gay fornicator". I am married and have two children.
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LKZ, G-d will judge them (the homosexuals).
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I never accused you of such a thing. It was a figurative you in the situation.
Well, it's better for me to be clear and unambiguous, because I don't want to be on your killing list ;D (especially if the killing is by stoning...)
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I do not enjoy death, or boundless pain. That is why they must be stoned. It's the better way.
You enjoy extreme pain but not boundless pain. How kind of you. Are you a Muslim or a psycho (or both) ?
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I want the Earth to be ready for the kingdom of heaven. Can't you see the way there?
Answer this, Lisa darlin', who will punish them more harshly?
Last one [though people don't... ever answer these]: Would you prefer to stone each one yourself, or their evil poisons your son and he be more harshly judged by Hashem?
Locust, I see homosexuality as one of those sins between the participants and G-d, and so Hashem.
As for your second question. it's not always black and white. I would not stone one myself. As for any future children, if any, all I can do is try my best to teach them right from wrong. But we all have free will. So when you bring up evil poisons, they will always be out there in one form or other. If you or I (hypothethetically) do a good enough job of raising our future kids, then it shouldn't be such an issue.
Now I have a hypothetical question for *you* Locust.
If you had the choice of your own son being a homosexual or a serial killer (and nothing else in between) what scenario would you choose?
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All sin is equal before g-d,
No its not. Not according to Judaism and the Torah. Their clearly are different levels of sins and their punishments in this world and/or the next are completely different. Are you going to say that one not making an after blessing on food can be compared to murder, or rape or anything else?
About punishments in the worldly sense. Yess in reality the Jewish courts have little power in the implantation of the punishments and in reality were not in the business of punishing. Soo once in 7 or 70 years they executed maybe 1ce and if soo got the reputation as a "bloody"/murderous court.
The courts are more of a hedge against the king and to keep his power in control.
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Some people here compare homosexuality and adultery. In my opinion, it can be argued that adultery is actually worse than homosexuality because adultery means breaking your word and betraying someone : you are clearly hurting someone and, moreover, the very person to whom you have vowed fidelity. Prohibition of adultery is one of the ten commandments, prohibition of homosexuality is not (although it is clearly forbidden by the Torah).
Which one of the 10? (Not suggesting this be done) but a male going with a single lady (assuming she went to a Mikvah) is not prohibited. While homosexuality is prohibited, as well as adultery between a married women with any other man.
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You do know that some of the members here are Christian! I'm not, but my kids are! If ANYONE ever f@#$ing tried to harm them ( even if they were gay). I would do a lot more than stone them. They would be praying to G-d that I was dead!
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Speaking of adultery, I don't understand this passage : "If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity" (Deuteronomy 25:11-12). Why should the woman get her hands cut off for defending her husband?
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Speaking of adultery, I don't understand this passage : "If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity" (Deuteronomy 25:11-12). Why should the woman get her hands cut off for defending her husband?
The Halachas concerning Rodef are related to the passage you are questioning:
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1088917/jewish/Chapter-One.htm
Halacha 7
What is implied? If the rodef was warned and continues to pursue his intended victim, even though he did not acknowledge the warning, since he continues his pursuit he should be killed.
If it is possible to save the pursued by damaging one of the limbs of the rodef, one should. Thus, if one can strike him with an arrow, a stone or a sword, and cut off his hand, break his leg, blind him or in another way prevent him from achieving his objective, one should do so.
If there is no way to be precise in one's aim and save the person being pursued without killing the rodef, one should kill him, even though he has not yet killed his victim. This is implied by Deuteronomy 25:11-12, which states: "If a man is fighting with his brother, and the wife of one... grabs the attacker by his private parts, you must cut off her hand; you may not show pity."
Halacha 8
There is no difference whether she grabs "his private parts" or any other organ that imperils his life. Similarly, the rodef may be a man or a woman. The intent of the verse is that whenever a person intends to strike a colleague with a blow that could kill him, the pursued should be saved by "cutting off the hand" of the rodef. If this cannot be done, the victim should be saved by taking the rodef's life, as the verse continues: "you may not show pity."
Halacha 9
This, indeed, is one of the negative mitzvot - not to take pity on the life of a rodef.
On this basis, our Sages ruled that when complications arise and a pregnant woman cannot give birth, it is permitted to abort the fetus in her womb, whether with a knife or with drugs. For the fetus is considered a rodef of its mother.
If the head of the fetus emerges, it should not be touched, because one life should not be sacrificed for another. Although the mother may die, this is the nature of the world.
I will look into the practical application of these Halachas this evening..
Rashis comments on these pasukim are reproduced below:
If… men… are fighting together: they will eventually come to blows, as it is said:“[to rescue her husband] from his assailant.” [The moral here is:] Peace cannot result from strife. — [Sifrei 25:160]
You shall cut off her hand: [This verse is not to be understood literally, but rather, it means:] She must pay monetary damages to recompense the victim for the embarrassment he suffered [through her action. The amount she must pay is calculated by the court,] all according to the [social status] of the culprit and the victim (see B.K. 83b). But perhaps [it means that we must actually cut off] her very hand? [The answer is born out from a transmission handed down to our Rabbis, as follows:] Here, it says לֹא תָחוֹס,“do not have pity,” and later, in the case of conspiring witnesses (Deut. 19:21), the same expression, לֹא תָחוֹס, is used. [And our Rabbis taught that these verses have a contextual connection:] Just as there, in the case of the conspiring witnesses, [the literal expressions in the verse refer to] monetary compensation (see Rashi on that verse), so too, here, [the expression “You must cut off her hand” refers to] monetary compensation. — [Sifrei 25:161]
This pasuk also has a lot to do with the laws of damages...
http://www.torah.org/learning/halacha-overview/chapter67.html
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In the Hebrew it says the man is fighting with his brother, not some foreign enemy who intends to murder the man. If she seizes him by the private parts, this is liable to injure and prevent him from having children which would be a serious problem. The passage right before it talks about the woman's right to humiliate her brother-in-law if he doesn't hold up his end of a Levirate marriage in the event that it's called for. However she cannot humiliate him by grabbing his private parts during a family dispute. I don't see any connection between this and adultery. I don't think she would be punished if she injured a man's genitals who was an actual enemy trying to murder her husband.
Yes, this is apparently what this law is concerned with... Damages...
But as I posted above this pasuk also relates to the laws concerning the Rodef (The Pursuer)...
The intent of the verse is that whenever a person intends to strike a colleague with a blow that could kill him, the pursued should be saved by "cutting off the hand" of the rodef. If this cannot be done, the victim should be saved by taking the rodef's life, as the verse continues: "you may not show pity."
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Uh, Locust Killing Zealot, I referred to you as Locust, because that's the first part of your long username. I don't understand why you're offended.
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I have no problem with anyone being Christian. Actually I'm happy, go be christian, I found everything I need now. You know what? Forget gays, I do not plan on having that much time at this point. This is the happiest discovery of my life, great Muman, you sir are a gentleman and a scholar.
Can you do Mikvah with a pump pouring from the top and taking from the bottom and count it as running water so it can be in your house for... accesbility? Also, is there a limit to how many women can do the Mikvah in the same basin? (maybe not at once).
Thank you... I appreciate the compliment... I try to answer questions when they are asked {according to my understanding and what I am able to find on the topic via a Jewish search engine}.
I think that we have many commandments to be concerned with. We should be strong against the evil which we perceive in the world and not accept it. I have spoken in the past about the difference between acceptance and tolerance. We don't have to accept evil but we should be tolerant of people making errors and falling... There is an important dynamic between DIN and CHESED/RACHAMIM {Strict Judgment and Kindness/Mercy}... We must first perfect ourselves and those around us, then we can take on TIKKUN OLAM (Fixing the World). Of course I don't mean the liberal TIKKUN OLAM... But Judaism believes we are tasked with perfecting the world through performance of Mitzvot.
Let us strengthen each other and thus we can rectify all transgression with help from the Ribono Shel Olam...
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oh. **** that's catholicsm. The Jesuit school was the only good one I could afford, but I've spend years cleaning their gunk out of my brain... thanks tag. And its not like these things were ever outright enforced, but the laws need to be there, so it isn't taught in schools, everyone becomes gay, or a gay besphemous sect pops up. If you are willing to do it, they won't. If there are some gays, I like what someone said here, you have to warn them, but eventually they have to go. The only way you get witnesses is if they're showing it off.
What Jesuit school? Was it in Sao Paulo?
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You know what is really weird? Look at all the guests looking at this thread!
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You are a brilliant writer don't get me wrong! But {Sao Paulo} think about it!
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You know what is really weird? Look at all the guests looking at this thread!
How can you tell that Ephraim? Based on your previous comments, your children are lucky to have such a father
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How can you tell that Ephraim? Based on your previous comments, your children are lucky to have such a father
Sorry everyone for losing my temper. The reason I got upset was because LKZ was talking about killing people and it could get the forum in trouble.
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Never mind about Sao Paulo. You were being kind of aggressive with some of the members here. So I was starting to question your loyalty to the forum. I apologize.
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Don't apologise Ephraim.
LKZ has been here a short while and has gained the number of posts he has by starting a very long and unnecessary argument with Jbeige.
He has posted things here which could get the forum in trouble. He posted earlier in the thread that Judaism kicks christianity' *** which could have caused division between jewish christian members. JTF rejects any attempt to undermine christian jewish unity.
He has yet to demonstrate Loyalty to the forum IMO.
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LKZ is entitled to his opinions as long as he explains and justifies them, which he does quite well overall (except for the part on Christianity, I'll grant you that, but at least it was sincere). This is a place open to debate and discussion and this is what LKZ does. Even leftists are invited to debate if they want to. The only thing we don't want here is people who are Nazis and Holocaust deniers, as well as people who make personal attacks or threats and call names. That's not what LKZ does.
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Don't apologise Ephraim.
LKZ has been here a short while and has gained the number of posts he has by starting a very long and unnecessary argument with Jbeige.
He has posted things here which could get the forum in trouble. He posted earlier in the thread that Judaism kicks christianity' *** which could have caused division between jewish christian members. JTF rejects any attempt to undermine christian jewish unity.
He has yet to demonstrate Loyalty to the forum IMO.
Yes, Quite true! 1+1 =3 ... That doesn't add up correctly and a great deal of the posts LKZ makes don't either... LKZ seems like a retread of one of our past members all full of p*ss and vinegar back on the forum with an agenda... Time will tell!
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Wow the first person that defends me on any forum/internet group communication of any kind ever. Thanks Yaakov. And the part on christianty was obviously an oversimplicification and a joke. My name is even based on a Chrisitian prophesy, so I don't have any problem with Christianity, its just about sex. If I can be a religious teacher and be married and get to wash singles girls in a running water bath in my house (though I think that the pipe thing dosen't work if it's recycled water, but then I can just use that extra water for my garden, and then leave it running) and then have sex with them, and their religious teachers either can't have sex, or can't divorce (not promoting it, but its not bad, when needed), I say Judaism kicks Christianity's a** on that point, and if anyone would like to have a calm debate about why Christianity is better, come right ahead. At this point, I can't be convinced, and muman kicks a** too for his studiousness.
Is there a English translation to all this? I think even the studious muman might have a problem making heads or tails out of a post like this :::D
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Full of piss an vinegar? Now I've been called more things then I care to or can remember, but how about no hmm? Why don't we search through the old members to find similarities, I'll help you out. I'm 21, oh great counter subterfuge expert of the forum, that post with the whole craig thing was what he had me convinced of that day, and I said thank you to everyone that attacked my part in it. Time will tell is that what this loyalty thing is about? So if I post something useful now, that say I could make you a millionaire, you'll be "nope LKZ and me don't see eye to eye, for a long enough time"? Some of the best things I've learned are from people I didn't know long. Even if I was the voodoo hoonan of serial killing commie liberals, it is wise to learn, even from the enemy. I don't know what your chat rules are, and ill only get worse I have have limits to play with. If you don't like what I say, fight back, its fun! Don't cry.
Besides, how do I know you're loyal to me, even if I was the most "loyal" to the forum? I have posted my agenda on my intro page, buddy, I never hid anything.
Your actually quite funny :::D We have not had a poster like you on the forum for some time. :laugh:
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Oh I be sorry homie, lemme make it a wee bit easier fo you suh. I done said my thank yous to the Yaakov for sticking up for me, sorta like old yella' against that darn black bear. Then eye's was esplainin' a joke, then sayin' why's is I like the Judaism, but not be having problems with the Christianity, though I don't spect to join.
Actually you know what usually only one or two people understand what I say out of a crowd. I like it better that way, cjd, you want to compare favorite cartoon characters, or play with your legos? lol. If I can't keep you from hating me, at least I'm having fun with it, its a rare luxury for me.
Anyway.....................
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LKZ, if you are a zealot, how come you post on Shabbat ?
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Oh, well I talk to my friends like that too. What do you mean by my loyalty to the forum? Like a saboteur? And what did you say that was so bad? You just informed me
P.s. Are the brazillians after you?
I try to be as kind to everyone as possible, until they are not too me. Where I grew up respect is a big deal! You show respect and get respect! You show disrespect and you get disrespected! You are a very intelligent kid, there is no need to insult others to get ahead. You build friendships, share ideas, build a union, and accomplish a goal.
Yes, I talk to my close friends that way too, heck we would fight each other for fun. But you have not been here long enough for people to take that kindly. All your doing is making enemies, Try being nice and build friendships.
P.s. No Brazilians are not after me, but there are some that probably wish I was dead!
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I'm not here to make money! I'm here to do anything I can for the Jewish people!
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Yes, Quite true! 1+1 =3 ... That doesn't add up correctly and a great deal of the posts LKZ makes don't either... LKZ seems like a retread of one of our past members all full of p*ss and vinegar back on the forum with an agenda... Time will tell!
AMEN and Gd bless you, CJD!!!
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What money would hold worth for me if there were none? You may proceed joyously with your previous insults, but do not mistaken my attentions again, or assume base needs hold any sway over my mind and my heart's dreams. I intend to do more than passively observe them with a fleeting word, and the road to a goal can be travelled through gentle paths, if you're smart enough to see the way. Compensation is no worthy goal, but is meritted through worthy deeds.
You're posting on a forum. The information the ingonrant are recieving is invaluable, but don't act like you're ready to go down with this ship, or have any political, business or any contats that could otherwise let you change things yourself. A mass movement will certainly be heard, but all it ever took was one to change minds. You talk like I should worship you as my saviour in the same breath you coo your praises in. This isn't about your pure and honorable futile words, or my sense of morality or loyalty. Its about building up to find someone who can stand tall, or ready yourself to follow whoever can.
You don't, deep inside, care about anyone but youself, and found just cause to prop up your own pride, that you use to shield your eyes from their gaze. Your help is assuredly placed in high esteem, but you risk nothing in being here. If attempt was made to make things serious, I wonder if more than words of a loyal fan you could risk for the Jewish people.
I also don't like the idea of someone doing what I say that I don't pay. Never accept anything that's not happily given, or risk unwelcome suprise.
Was that a threat? Your really starting to [censored] me off! I'm no savoir or messiah! I'm just a hillbilly that cares about the Jewish people. And YES I can't do anything right now, but if a third world war breaks out. I will do everything I can for the Jewish people and my country! And I don't give a F about me, but I do care about my family and others! And if I have to die for what I believe, I will! By the way, F U!!!
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This thread is getting out of hand. I think that things should cool down a bit.
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Sorry! Muman!
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Is there a English translation to all this? I think even the studious muman might have a problem making heads or tails out of a post like this :::D
That was one of the funniest posts I've ever seen on the forum especially about using the extra water for his garden.
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That was one of the funniest posts I've ever seen on the forum especially about using the extra water for his garden.
I have not read cr*p like that on the forum since the member Fruit of thy loins was around... Fruit had a better repartee however.
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I assumed this site purported to lay the foundations for a political movement. If a thrid world war breaks out, you will fight or flee to your death, so that is meaningless to a political movement, that would never ganrer support in said instance as there would be no time. If indeed that is truly what you prepare for, shoot cans, what but unmissible information of war would you need to be better prepared? Every Jew should be thankful for your honorable intentions, but then what is the purpose of this website to you? An outlet to vent?
Please don't get emotional with me, it speaks very poorly on your behalf.
P.s. if you don't give an "F" about yourself, how will you become someone who can defend your family, and uphold or even spread your ideals? Typically, in my sutdy of psychology, those who care least for themselves are filled with the most pride, and who care least about others, except for in the regard of what they make the person feel. Love yourself, or how could you ever fully give your love to anyone else, all of whom are less worthy of it?
Do you even read the things you post? There are Christian members of this forum whose dirty toenails have already proven themselves to be of greater value then your amateurish provocation. It really pisses me off when alleged and I do mean ALLEGED Jews come onto this forum only to cause divisiveness. Be a GOOD Jew and honor the commandment, "Thou shalt not be a troublemaker."
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Do you even read the things you post? There are Christian members of this forum whose dirty toenails have already proven themselves to be of greater value then your amateurish provocation. It really pisses me off when alleged and I do mean ALLEGED Jews come onto this forum only to cause divisiveness. Be a GOOD Jew and honor the commandment, "Thou shalt not be a troublemaker."
How can we recommend this guy be a good Jew when we don't honestly know if he is even Jewish... Troublemaker for sure Jewish only maybe :::D... I can't read half of what he posts since it seems like the ramblings of someone less than sane.... My finger is inching towards the ban button but something has told me to hold off for a while ;D... We need to see what sick old worn out troll is hiding under the LKZ screen name :::D
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Really, is that why in the past I have made suggestions about meeting other members that are in the same area as me? Or is that why I wear a star of David around my neck, and a Israeli flag pin on my jacket at bike rally's filled with Nazis?
Ephraim,
Please stop. You don't have anything to prove. He wants to goad you further into something that isn't even real; that is, his imaginary depiction of you, or of any of us for that matter
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Alright I will. Sorry!
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Alright I will. Sorry!
Nothing to be sorry about.
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Deleted by Lisa
You've been obsessed with this forum a long time now huh? Do you need a hug... from yourself... in a straight jacket?
I guess this is kind of nice for you, being lonely and miserable for so long now and getting a bit of attention must feel really relieving.
You're not very good at making insults, please try harder, the entertainment value you provide is very little as it stands.
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Deleted by Lisa
I'm not really the expert on retard clothes. I'll refer to you when I have questions.
Deleted by Lisa
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Deleted by Lisa
Sorry I can't wipe the drool off your face anymore, I have fun things I feel like doing and you'll be banned by the time I get back. Have a less depressing night than usual.
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This is a truly bizarre thread, but hopefully you know by now, Israel Chai, that no you cannot be a religious Jewish teacher and have sex with single girls or creepily wash them in water baths.
Whatever religion that is, it ain't Judaism.
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Why revisit a post from 7 years ago?
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I think the eastcost troll was trying to attack someone's spelling
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That was Chaim Jr. I deleted his offensive posts and banned him.
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This is a truly bizarre thread, but hopefully you know by now, Israel Chai, that no you cannot be a religious Jewish teacher and have sex with single girls or creepily wash them in water baths.
Whatever religion that is, it ain't Judaism.
There was no creepy washing, there was a house river pool and we were splashing and laughing in that idea. I realize that many of my ideas from that age were not in line with halahca. It was funny to see. What happened to Dan Ben Noach btw?
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What happened to Dan Ben Noach btw?
He became an Xtian and I think he started supporting missionary activity.
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What happened to Yerusha?
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What happened to Yerusha?
Don't you know him in real life?
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Don't you know him in real life?
Yeah I do but I haven't heard from him in a long time
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He became an Xtian and I think he started supporting missionary activity.
I mean so like if its to get Jews thats not nice, but why leave, is he left wing too?
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I mean so like if its to get Jews thats not nice, but why leave, is he left wing too?
I don't know. I just heard he started posting Xtianity stuff on the forum.