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The Worldwide Crisis of Islam => The Truth About Islam => Topic started by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 02:51:05 AM

Title: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 02:51:05 AM
I would first like to say that I AM a Muslim (not a spy) and DO NOT intend to "preach hate" or insult anyone. Having said that I would like to state that I will not use rude or hateful launguage and would appriciate the same. I was shocked at the amount of anti-Islamic propaganda and just straight out lies about Islam. I would encourage anyone to ask me ANY questions that they may have about Islam and I will answer them All insha'Allah (God willing). If you have a question that you would like to ask in private anyone can contact me at my e-mail. I would lastly like to ask a question to all non-Muslims: Would you turn to an Atheist or a Christian to larn about Judaism, if not then why would you ask a non-Muslim about Islam? Anyway I look foward to your questions , Peace
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 02:53:08 AM
I would first like to say that I AM a Muslim (not a spy) and DO NOT intend to "preach hate" or insult anyone. Having said that I would like to state that I will not use rude or hateful launguage and would appriciate the same. I was shocked at the amount of anti-Islamic propaganda and just straight out lies about Islam. I would encourage anyone to ask me ANY questions that they may have about Islam and I will answer them All insha'Allah (G-d willing). If you have a question that you would like to ask in private anyone can contact me at my e-mail. I would lastly like to ask a question to all non-Muslims: Would you turn to an Atheist or a Christian to larn about Judaism, if not then why would you ask a non-Muslim about Islam? Anyway I look foward to your questions , Peace
Do you support Israel as a Jewish state?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 03:03:24 AM
Well from what I hear I can safely say NO. But I would like to speak to Jews and Zionists to get their side of the story. I would not trust the media for any information based on what they say about Islam, if they can say such lies about Islam then I can't trust what they say about Israel. I DO NOT support the killing of my brothers and sisters or of any killing of Innocent civilians.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 03:07:49 AM
Well from what I hear I can safely say NO. But I would like to speak to Jews and Zionists to get their side of the story. I would not trust the media for any information based on what they say about Islam, if they can say such lies about Islam then I can't trust what they say about Israel. I DO NOT support the killing of my brothers and sisters or of any killing of Innocent civilians.

Don't try that 'innocent civillian' trick here. Islam only considers muslims to be innocent civillians. The grand mufti of Australia says that civillians loyal to non-muslim governments are not innocent.

Does Islam demand that non-muslims convert or live as dhimmies?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 08, 2007, 03:15:25 AM
Well from what I hear I can safely say NO. But I would like to speak to Jews and Zionists to get their side of the story. I would not trust the media for any information based on what they say about Islam, if they can say such lies about Islam then I can't trust what they say about Israel. I DO NOT support the killing of my brothers and sisters or of any killing of Innocent civilians.

Abdullah, what is your ethnic background?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 03:27:13 AM
I'm white, roughly 25% italian 25% irish and 50% eastern european. I also have Jewish ancestors.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 03:31:34 AM
Well from what I hear I can safely say NO. But I would like to speak to Jews and Zionists to get their side of the story. I would not trust the media for any information based on what they say about Islam, if they can say such lies about Islam then I can't trust what they say about Israel. I DO NOT support the killing of my brothers and sisters or of any killing of Innocent civilians.

Don't try that 'innocent civillian' trick here. Islam only considers muslims to be innocent civillians. The grand mufti of Australia says that civillians loyal to non-muslim governments are not innocent.

Does Islam demand that non-muslims convert or live as dhimmies?
Please answer the above question and here's another:

Do you support free speech?

Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 03:39:36 AM
In response to the earlier question here is the definition of a "Innocent civilian"- any non-combatant.
Its is not true that Islam say All non-Muslims are not innocent, actually quite the oppisite. The Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) once said " whoever harms a non-muslim citizen has harmed me" here is a verse from the Holy Qur'an that is of a similar theme- 5:32 " Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land"
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 03:42:48 AM
Yes I support free speech. Please keep this in mind, how do you feel when you see KKK or neo-nazi rallies? I feel similarly when people spread lies about the Prophet(peace be upon him) and Islam. I support their right to say it but not what they say.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 03:45:04 AM
Yes I support free speech. Please keep this in mind, how do you feel when you see KKK or neo-nazi rallies? I feel similarly when people spread lies about the Prophet(peace be upon him) and Islam. I support their right to say it but not what they say.

Then why do muslim clerics demand death for non-muslims in non-muslim countries who offend Islam?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 03:59:01 AM
In response to the earlier question here is the definition of a "Innocent civilian"- any non-combatant.
Its is not true that Islam say All non-Muslims are not innocent, actually quite the oppisite. The Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) once said " whoever harms a non-muslim citizen has harmed me" here is a verse from the Holy Qur'an that is of a similar theme- 5:32 " Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land"

Why do muslim-nazis kill innocent civillians in suicide bombing attacks, then?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 03:59:18 AM
Please tell me which "clerics" in which countries? Even if someone did say that they would be wrong. There is nothing like that in the Qur'an, you shoulden't judge Islam based on the Muslims, Are you saying there was never a bad Preist or Rabbi? By that logic you would have me belive that all Cathoilc are child molesters, which is no true?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 04:02:15 AM
Sorry about the grammar/spelling , I useally use a spell check.
Suicide is not ever allowed in Islam AND killing of non-combatants ( innocent civilans) is not allowed either. I have know Idea of why you would call them Nazis though, there is no racism in Islam
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 04:07:27 AM
Sorry about the grammar/spelling , I useally use a spell check.
Suicide is not ever allowed in Islam AND

But religious muslims all over the world ARE committing suicide AND killing innocent civillians in the process. Are ALL those muslims and ALL there clerics wrong?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 04:16:21 AM
All over the world? ???  Most muslims DO NOT support suicide bombing. IF they all said that which they do not then Yes they would be wrong. Also something about Martyrdom, woulden't you consider the Jewish victems of the Holocaust Martyrs of Judaism?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Carlyle on July 08, 2007, 04:28:52 AM
I'm white, roughly 25% italian 25% irish and 50% eastern european. I also have Jewish ancestors.
Then it is not likely that you were raised to be a Muslim. When and why did you convert?

Also, do you know that Prophet Mohammed was a pedophile who abused a 9-year-old prepubescent girl sexually?

Quoting Sahih Bukhari 5:58:234:
Narrated Aisha: "My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammad was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me.”

More information:
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Aisha's_Age_of_Consummation
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 04:36:33 AM
All over the world? ???  Most muslims DO NOT support suicide bombing. IF they all said that which they do not then Yes they would be wrong. Also something about Martyrdom, woulden't you consider the Jewish victems of the Holocaust Martyrs of Judaism?
How dare you compare Jewish genocide victims to muslim-nazi suicide bomb murerers , you filfthy muslim pig?

Jews did not kill German children with bombs strapped to their bodies.

All you are doing here is engaging in taqiyya.....yes we know all about muslim-nazi deception. You're not the first moon-god worshiper to try it.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 04:42:44 AM
Well first I would like to answer your first questions, I converted( reverted as we say) because of ALOT of reasons, The main reasons being the Oneness of God  and the Message of Islam in general.It really hard to exlain it breifly but Islam is not just a Religion it shows us the best ways to worship God in ALL of the things we do. I reverted offically 2 months ago but was looking into and applying some of it for a while before that.
Now for the second part- The Prophet(peace be upon him) was NOT a pedophile as some people claim. For one Iesha was not "prepubecient" she was already having her periods at the time of the consumation. Also I don't think that you realy know the definition of the word "pedophile". When you say this you useally assume that the person is specifically atracted to young girls which was not true of the Prophet(peace be upon him). I don't wish to be insulting but isen't there some kind of jewish law allowing incest if the family member is under 9 years of age? I'm not claiming that Jews are like that (I know their not) but just look at that law, is that not pedophilia?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 04:48:25 AM
Well first I would like to answer your first questions, I converted( reverted as we say) because of ALOT of reasons, The main reasons being the Oneness of G-d  and the Message of Islam in general.It really hard to exlain it breifly but Islam is not just a Religion it shows us the best ways to worship G-d in ALL of the things we do. I reverted offically 2 months ago but was looking into and applying some of it for a while before that.
Now for the second part- The Prophet(peace be upon him) was NOT a pedophile as some people claim. For one Iesha was not "prepubecient" she was already having her periods at the time of the consumation. Also I don't think that you realy know the definition of the word "pedophile". When you say this you useally assume that the person is specifically atracted to young girls which was not true of the Prophet(peace be upon him). I don't wish to be insulting but isen't there some kind of jewish law allowing incest if the family member is under 9 years of age? I'm not claiming that Jews are like that (I know their not) but just look at that law, is that not pedophilia?

There is NO such law. You are referring to twisted mistranslations of the Talmud by muslim-nazi haullocaust denyers. As for the warlord/rapist mohommad............the girl was 9!!!! Don't give us crap about periods! Anybody who humps a 9 year old is a child mollester. Mollesting children has never bothered muslims, though....has it?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 04:51:13 AM
Wow I'm kind of shocked. First off I diden't call suicide bombers Martyrs. Second I diden't say that they were similar, I just asked if you would consider the genocide Victems to be Martyrs of the Jewish faith as one would consider a soldier killed in a war to be a sort of Martyr for his country. All I asked for was respect- I'm not trying anything as you insist and Am not insulting you. If you have a different opinion thats fine but do you have to call names? ??? I also don't know why you called me a "pig" as I don't eat pork or generaly associate with pigs. I also don't worship a "pagan Moon god" unless that is what you would call the God of Abraham and Noah(peace be upon them both) because thats who I worship.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 04:55:19 AM
If you don't want "crap about periods" then don't go throwing around claims of pedophila. Child molestation is not Allowed in Islam and there are several verses against it.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 04:59:14 AM
Wow I'm kind of shocked. First off I diden't call suicide bombers Martyrs. Second I diden't say that they were similar, I just asked if you would consider the genocide Victems to be Martyrs of the Jewish faith as one would consider a soldier killed in a war to be a sort of Martyr for his country. All I asked for was respect- I'm not trying anything as you insist and Am not insulting you. If you have a different opinion thats fine but do you have to call names? ??? I also don't know why you called me a "pig" as I don't eat pork or generaly associate with pigs. I also don't worship a "pagan Moon G-d" unless that is what you would call the G-d of Abraham and Noah(peace be upon them both) because thats who I worship.

Muslims do not worship the G_d of Abraham, Issac and Jacob....yes that is his proper definition. He is not the G_d of Abraham, Ishmael and Mo' the rapist. You people are worshiping alluh, the pagan moon-god of mecca. And you ARE engaged in taqiyya like all of your kind.

i. Taqiyya -- Religious Deception

Due to the state of war between dar al-Islam and dar al-harb, reuses de guerre, i.e., systematic lying to the infidel, must be considered part and parcel of Islamic tactics. The parroting by Muslim organizations throughout dar al-harb that "Islam is a religion of peace," or that the origins of Muslim violence lie in the unbalanced psyches of particular individual "fanatics," must be considered as disinformation intended to induce the infidel world to let down its guard. Of course, individual Muslims may genuinely regard their religion as "peaceful" -- but only insofar as they are ignorant of its true teachings, or in the sense of the Egyptian theorist Sayyid Qutb, who posited in his Islam and Universal Peace that true peace would prevail in the world just as soon as Islam had conquered it.

A telling point is that, while Muslims who present their religion as peaceful abound throughout dar al-harb, they are nearly non-existent in dar al-Islam. A Muslim apostate once suggested to me a litmus test for Westerners who believe that Islam is a religion of "peace" and "tolerance": try making that point on a street corner in Ramallah, or Riyadh, or Islamabad, or anywhere in the Muslim world. He assured me you wouldn't live five minutes.



Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 05:01:24 AM
If you don't want "crap about periods" then don't go throwing around claims of pedophila. Child molestation is not Allowed in Islam and there are several verses against it.

The proof is in the pudding...or in this case your own muslim-nazi koran. Mo' humped a 9yo.....he's a child mollester!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 05:07:27 AM
Why can't you act civil? I would like to know where in the Qur'an or Hadith you found this "infomation". Chances are you got it from an anti-Muslim website. I can't assure you we are not allowed to lie to anyone. And I also gave you evidence that The Prophet(peace be upon him) was not a pedophile so If your not willing to provide any evidence against mine other thatn you opinian I will consider the question answered.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 05:18:59 AM
Why can't you act civil? I would like to know where in the Qur'an or Hadith you found this "infomation". Chances are you got it from an anti-Muslim website. I can't assure you we are not allowed to lie to anyone. And I also gave you evidence that The Prophet(peace be upon him) was not a pedophile so If your not willing to provide any evidence against mine other thatn you opinian I will consider the question answered.

Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746) - "Lying is permissible when there is a legitimate desired end.  And the legitimate desired end may be a personal one."

 

 Book 008, Number 3309:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger (, may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him.




Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 05:38:44 AM
I don't think you understood what I said. If you have a proof against what I said other than your opinion then you should argue it. About that 'Hadith"- If it contradicts the Qur'an then it is Intstantly proven to be false and is to be ignored as a false hadith.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 05:47:13 AM
I don't think you understood what I said. If you have a proof against what I said other than your opinion then you should argue it. About that 'Hadith"- If it contradicts the Qur'an then it is Intstantly proven to be false and is to be ignored as a false hadith.

hahaha...more taqiyya and circular logic. Nobody can PROOVE anything as far as religion is concerned. One must look at history and reallity and make a leap of faith. On that note:

If your vile religion is so 'perfect' as you lot claim, why are all islamic countries filfthy, third world dumps that everybody who can is leaving?

Why is all immigration from east to west and not west to east? Why do christian countries have a much higher standard of living than the muslim stink-hole countries if islam is so perfect? Should it not be the other way 'round?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 05:56:31 AM
Well its a common question and quite easy to explain. The "muslim" countries are not following Islam. Counties like Afganastan claim to impleament sharia but include very little actual sharia and a whole lot of afgani culture. There is no punishment in Sharia for a woman who doesn't cover up- it is between her and Allah.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 06:02:30 AM
Well its a common question and quite easy to explain. The "muslim" countries are not following Islam. Counties like Afganastan claim to impleament sharia but include very little actual sharia and a whole lot of afgani culture. There is no punishment in Sharia for a woman who doesn't cover up- it is between her and Allah.

What a joke !!

You're just like those stupid communists who claim that sorry ideology didn't really fail because Russia and it's allies didn't practice 'true' communism.

Bottom line: Islam=poor, dictatorial, cruel stink-holes.
Judaism/christianity=rich, democratic, humanitarian muslim immigrant/ refugee destinations......that's a fact.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 06:12:43 AM
What is funny is that you don't have a point. Do you have a question or do you want to insult me some more? It just shows your character. :)
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 06:16:42 AM
What is funny is that you don't have a point. Do you have a question or do you want to insult me some more? It just shows your character. :)

That WAS the point. You are copping out, just like believers in other failed ideologies like communism.
" well they don't practice TRUE (insert failed ideology here)" . It's all a crock.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 08, 2007, 08:12:13 AM
Firstly, guys, lets be civil, hurling insults that go beyond the truth belittles us, not the person we are trying to inuslt.

It doesn't seam that many points have really been made, other than mindless insults, however, there is one that Abdullah raised that I would specifically like to refute.

In response to the earlier question here is the definition of a "Innocent civilian"- any non-combatant.
Its is not true that Islam say All non-Muslims are not innocent, actually quite the oppisite. The Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) once said " whoever harms a non-muslim citizen has harmed me" here is a verse from the Holy Qur'an that is of a similar theme- 5:32 " Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land"

If you give the refference for the quote "whoever harms a non-muslim citizen has harmed me" so i may look at the context I'll be able to comment about it, but for now I'll have to stick to the one that you have referenced.

Lets take this verse as it appears without added notes:

Quran Surah 5 Ayat 32:

"Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits in the land."

Firstly, this verse has no instructions in it for muslims at all "We ordained for the Children of Israel", it is talking about an instruction for Jews, not muslims. Now the definition of "spreading mischeif in the land" is a matter of great dispute, some muslims who do accept this verse as being intended to instruct muslims as well as Jews will also say that speaking against Islam is spreading mischeif in the land, so then this verse becomes an encouragement to kill non-muslims. Now if we look at the end of the verse "even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits" remembering that this verse was addressed at the beginning "We ordained for the Children of Israel" we see that the true intention of this verse is to call Jews evil. So far from being a message of peace, this verse is anti-semitic nazi style propoganda.

Do your research before making another point.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 08, 2007, 09:20:04 AM
Be civil with a Mooslime ?

Why ?

Anyone that belongs to the vile cult of Islime, doesn't deserve civility or respect.

Islam calls for my forced conversion, dhimmitude or death !!

And I'm supposed to be CIVIL with these IslamoNazi bastards ?

Let's get something straight right here and right now.

Every Muslime is my enemy.

No exceptions.

Mohahmhead (excrement be upon the sewer rat) was a mass murderer, rapist, pedophile, liar, terrorist, scumbag thief.

ANYONE that proclaims this vile, psychotic piece of feces to be a prophet and desires to emulate him doesn't deserve to be treated civilly or with respect.

Let there be no confusion: Islam and Mohammedans are the enemies of all free thinking, righteous people everywhere.

They should be treated with the utmost contempt and as harshly and mercilessly as possible until Islam and Mohammedans are no more.

The best way to eradicate Islam is to treat all Muslimes exactly the way the assholey Queeran mandates they should treat non-Slimes.

It's time for Dar al Harb to go on a rampage and teach these Muslime beeyatches who the real dhimmis are.

DEATH TO ISLAM !
DEATH TO THE DISCIPLES OF MOHAM !

[censored] ALLAH THE PAGAN MOON GOD !
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 09:25:39 AM
Be civil with a Mooslime ?

Why ?

Anyone that belongs to the vile cult of Islime, doesn't deserve civility or respect.

Islam calls for my forced conversion, dhimmitude or death !!

And I'm supposed to be CIVIL with these IslamoNazi bastards ?

Let's get something straight right here and right now.

Every Muslime is my enemy.

No exceptions.

Mohahmhead (excrement be upon the sewer rat) was a mass murderer, rapist, pedophile, liar, terrorist, scumbag thief.

ANYONE that proclaims this vile, psychotic piece of feces to be a prophet and desires to emulate him doesn't deserve to be treated civilly or with respect.

Let there be no confusion: Islam and Mohammedans are the enemies of all free thinking, righteous people everywhere.

They should be treated with the utmost contempt and as harshly and mercilessly as possible until Islam and Mohammedans are no more.

The best way to eradicate Islam is to treat all Muslimes exactly the way the assholey Queeran mandates they should treat non-Slimes.

It's time for Dar al Harb to go on a rampage and teach these Muslime beeyatches who the real dhimmis are.

DEATH TO ISLAM !
DEATH TO THE DISCIPLES OF MOHAM !

[censored] ALLAH THE PAGAN MOON G-d !

That's a big 10-4 and an AMEN, brother Muck. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: cjd on July 08, 2007, 09:39:31 AM
Be civil with a Mooslime ?

Why ?

Anyone that belongs to the vile cult of Islime, doesn't deserve civility or respect.

Islam calls for my forced conversion, dhimmitude or death !!

And I'm supposed to be CIVIL with these IslamoNazi bastards ?

Let's get something straight right here and right now.

Every Muslime is my enemy.

No exceptions.

Mohahmhead (excrement be upon the sewer rat) was a mass murderer, rapist, pedophile, liar, terrorist, scumbag thief.

ANYONE that proclaims this vile, psychotic piece of feces to be a prophet and desires to emulate him doesn't deserve to be treated civilly or with respect.

Let there be no confusion: Islam and Mohammedans are the enemies of all free thinking, righteous people everywhere.

They should be treated with the utmost contempt and as harshly and mercilessly as possible until Islam and Mohammedans are no more.

The best way to eradicate Islam is to treat all Muslimes exactly the way the assholey Queeran mandates they should treat non-Slimes.

It's time for Dar al Harb to go on a rampage and teach these Muslime beeyatches who the real dhimmis are.

DEATH TO ISLAM !
DEATH TO THE DISCIPLES OF MOHAM !

[censored] ALLAH THE PAGAN MOON G-d !
I agree!! In this guys case I agree with you even more because he is a recent convert to this garbage and not someone who was born into it. How can anyone convert to this garbage in light of all the problems and violence Islam is  fomenting in the world today.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 08, 2007, 09:54:18 AM
I know that Islam is evil, but if we do not treat muslims in a civil manner there is no chance of turning them from islam.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 09:59:53 AM
I knw that Islam is evil, but if we do not treat muslims in a civil manner there is no chance of turning them from islam.

"turning them from Islam".....you've got buckley's chance. For every odd one that a missionary might bag, those animals breed another ten thousand. Forget converting them. On a mathematical basis alone you'll never do it in 10,000 years. Their destruction is the only thing that will save us.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 08, 2007, 10:03:42 AM
If you think being civil with Slimes is a way to get them to abandon Islam you need to get your head examined.

By the way ftf, is that why you're civil with Jews ?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 08, 2007, 10:30:26 AM
If you think being civil with Slimes is a way to get them to abandon Islam you need to get your head examined.

By the way ftf, is that why you're civil with Jews ?
I am civil and friendly with everyone, because I believe it is right to be so, I gave the example of being able to turn muslims from islam as a practical reason for being civil to them, but that is far from the main reason for me.

I didn't say we'd succeed, but I still think we should try. Every person who abandons Islam is worth a party.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 10:36:40 AM
Quote:
I didn't say we'd succeed, but I still think we should try. Every person who abandons Islam is worth a party.




I'd rather have a bonfire for the ones who stay.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 08, 2007, 10:39:57 AM
You go right ahead and be civil with Moozies.

Just don't ask me to follow your example.

I've never enjoyed being nice to my enemies.

I've got too much self-respect and too strong an instinct for self-preservation to be nice to people that are busy murdering Jews and 'infidels' all over the planet.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 08, 2007, 10:50:26 AM
The first of the ten commandments instructs us not to give false witness about others, as Abdullah probably doesn't do things to cammels, and isn't a pig you are breaking said commandment by saying that he does. That's my understanding anyway.

I had a really fun debate with a muslim recently, in which we both stated that we believed that the other was unintentionally following satan, we were still very civil to each other though.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 10:57:10 AM
The first of the ten commandments instructs us not to give false witness about others, as Abdullah probably doesn't do things to cammels, and isn't a pig you are breaking said commandment by saying that he does. That's my understanding anyway.

I had a really fun debate with a muslim recently, in which we both stated that we believed that the other was unintentionally following satan, we were still very civil to each other though.

Well that's just peachy.

While your having a nice little tea party with one of those animals, ten of his mates will be trying to rape your mother and sister. Wake up.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 08, 2007, 11:49:28 AM
The first of the ten commandments instructs us not to give false witness about others, as Abdullah probably doesn't do things to cammels, and isn't a pig you are breaking said commandment by saying that he does. That's my understanding anyway.

I had a really fun debate with a muslim recently, in which we both stated that we believed that the other was unintentionally following satan, we were still very civil to each other though.

Well that's just peachy.

While your having a nice little tea party with one of those animals, ten of his mates will be trying to rape your mother and sister. Wake up.
If they threaten me I will respond in like, but as long as they are just talking, I will keep to being civil.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 11:52:53 AM
The first of the ten commandments instructs us not to give false witness about others, as Abdullah probably doesn't do things to cammels, and isn't a pig you are breaking said commandment by saying that he does. That's my understanding anyway.

I had a really fun debate with a muslim recently, in which we both stated that we believed that the other was unintentionally following satan, we were still very civil to each other though.

Well that's just peachy.

While your having a nice little tea party with one of those animals, ten of his mates will be trying to rape your mother and sister. Wake up.
If they threaten me I will respond in like, but as long as they are just talking, I will keep to being civil.

You're missing the point. Somewhere in the koran there's something about talking peace out one side of your face whilst taking up the sword. Whilst thses people are being civil, they are plotting our deaths.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 08, 2007, 12:23:00 PM
The first of the ten commandments instructs us not to give false witness about others, as Abdullah probably doesn't do things to cammels, and isn't a pig you are breaking said commandment by saying that he does. That's my understanding anyway.

I had a really fun debate with a muslim recently, in which we both stated that we believed that the other was unintentionally following satan, we were still very civil to each other though.

Well that's just peachy.

While your having a nice little tea party with one of those animals, ten of his mates will be trying to rape your mother and sister. Wake up.
If they threaten me I will respond in like, but as long as they are just talking, I will keep to being civil.

You're missing the point. Somewhere in the koran there's something about talking peace out one side of your face whilst taking up the sword. Whilst thses people are being civil, they are plotting our deaths.
How does being rude to them help the situation? I would be civil to someone even while driving a knife through them or firing a gun at them, there is need to be anything but civil.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 08, 2007, 01:55:53 PM
"The first of the ten commandments instructs us not to give false witness about others, as Abdullah probably doesn't do things to cammels, and isn't a pig you are breaking said commandment by saying that he does. That's my understanding anyway."

I didn't say anything untrue about Abdul or Islam and I don't think Newman did either.

"I would be civil to someone even while driving a knife through them or firing a gun at them..."

How about when his friends are driving a knife through or firing a gun at you or your family ?

"I would be civil to someone even while driving a knife through them or firing a gun at them..."

Like when you try to convert Jews ?  Or have you given that up ?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 08, 2007, 02:00:34 PM
"The first of the ten commandments instructs us not to give false witness about others, as Abdullah probably doesn't do things to cammels, and isn't a pig you are breaking said commandment by saying that he does. That's my understanding anyway."

I didn't say anything untrue about Abdul or Islam and I don't think Newman did either.

"I would be civil to someone even while driving a knife through them or firing a gun at them..."

How about when his friends are driving a knife through or firing a gun at you or your family ?

"I would be civil to someone even while driving a knife through them or firing a gun at them..."

Like when you try to convert Jews ?  Or have you given that up ?
I have never tried to convert a Jew, all I have said on that issue is that I would believe it right to do so, my religion clearly says that it should be preached to everyone.

I would do my best to be civil to someone even when he was trying to kill me, though I don't know if I'd be able to.

And newman accused Abdul of doing things to a cammel, I am pretty sure that he (Abdul) has never done things to a cammel, and therefore that is something untrue.

It is easy enough to insult Islam by quoting it's holy texts without making stuff up, so don't start making stuff up or all you do is lose your credibility.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 08, 2007, 02:27:19 PM
OK, so here's what we've established about your beliefs:

You believe it is right to convert Jews.

You believe it is right to be civil with someone that is trying to kill you or your family.

I'm diametrically opposed to those beliefs.

And as far as I'm concerned, anyone holding that first belief, whether he practices it or not, doesn't belong here.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 08, 2007, 03:07:15 PM
OK, so here's what we've established about your beliefs:

You believe it is right to convert Jews.

You believe it is right to be civil with someone that is trying to kill you or your family.

I'm diametrically opposed to those beliefs.

And as far as I'm concerned, anyone holding that first belief, whether he practices it or not, doesn't belong here.
Regarding the first of the two, I've asked Chaim to decide if he thinks I should leave because of it, and I will respect his decision, regarding the second, what does not being civil gain you?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 08, 2007, 03:10:01 PM
The pride and satisfaction of not being a dhimmi dunce.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 08, 2007, 03:34:29 PM
The pride and satisfaction of not being a dhimmi dunce.
You can be quite civil without being a dhimmi.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 08, 2007, 03:55:07 PM
What's next ?
Being civil with Nazis ?

'Let's be tollllllllerant'
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 08, 2007, 04:04:16 PM
What's next ?
Being civil with Nazis ?

'Let's be tollllllllerant'
Civil to them I will be, but no, I will not tolerate nazi beliefs. You can oppose evil without resorting to lies and defamation, attack muslims with the facts.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 08, 2007, 04:11:51 PM
I'm getting a little tired of you accusing me of lying about Islam and Moozies.

You want to be civil with Moozies, go right ahead.

But stop accusing me of lying and defamation.

Unless you can back it up.

I'm not going to be civil with Moozies no matter how much that disturbs you.

Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 08, 2007, 04:14:48 PM
I'm getting a little tired of you accusing me of lying about Islam and Moozies.

You want to be civil with Moozies, go right ahead.

But stop accusing me of lying and defamation.

Unless you can back it up.

I'm not going to be civil with Moozies no matter how much that disturbs you.



Give up, Muck

Remember ftf is an apostate Jew. He just has a severe dose of ghetto mentallity.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 08, 2007, 04:28:00 PM
Muck, it was newman that I was accusing, not you.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 08, 2007, 04:45:59 PM
So newman might have made a facetious reference to Moozies having sex with camels.

Big deal.

Obviously, he has no way to know if Abdul ever boned a sheep or a camel.

That's an attempt at some dark humor.

Of course the Ayatollah Khomeini said it was fine to have sex with a goat, as long as you killed it afterwards and didn't sell the meat in your own village.

The difference is the Ayatollah wasn't trying to be funny.

Apparently you believe it's not only possible to be civil with the uncivilized, you actually think it's commendable.

You also think it's desirable to have an intellectual discourse about Islam with the brainwashed idiots that actually believe the Aholey Queeran is the word of God and Mo was his final prophet, as if something productive could come from such a discussion.

I'd rather try to explain why we only see one side of the moon to a hamster than try to have a reasoned debate with a Moozie.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 08, 2007, 05:16:04 PM
If we sink to throwing insults we are sinking to their level, rise above their level, stick to the facts, and you are far more likely to achieve something.

Many people would be turned off by hearing you call a muslims a goat shagger, but they will be preapred to listen a reasoned out debate.

And, yes, I know all about the sick teachings of Ayatollah Khomeini, have sexual activity with a goat is far from the worst of what he said is ok. If you want to raise his teachings in a debate though, quote him and ask the muslim or whoever you're debating with what they think, don't just start calling muslims goat shaggers, lets follow that logic a little further, Some muslims looked upto Ayatollah Khomeini as a great man, he said that it's okay to gain sexual pleasure forom a girl as young as five, therefore all muslims think it's okay to gain sexual pleasure from a girl as young as five. Americans have elected Mr Bush as their leader, Mr Bush is an idiot therefore all Americans are idiots...
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Dan on July 08, 2007, 07:21:36 PM
Sorry, but I missed the beginning of all this - Who's Abdullah and what's his purpose on JTF forum?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 08, 2007, 11:45:50 PM
Sorry for the long absense. I would like to thank ftf, I don't want to insult people or lie about them and it is clear that though we may not agree with eachother we can have reasonable conversation. I understand that I can't prove I don't have sex with animals but please remember you can't prove you don't either, not that I'm accuseing you. As I have stated before I'm not middle eastern, I'm white and live in an area with nearly All Jews and Christians. My family is all Christians, my friends are all jews and christians. I'm not trying to lie or spread propaganda- quite the oppisite- I just want to give some truth about Islam. I'm acctually quite shocked at the response I've been getting as I know Judaism and Christianity don't teach people to be hateful or Rude, and you people are claiming to follow your religions. I just want to ansewer questions on Islam and maybe even ask a few about Zionism insha'Allah. Please remember that contery to what you may belive I worship the God- Allah- of the Prophets, All of the prophets includeing Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Issac, Adam, and Mohammed PEACE BE UPON THEM ALL. I can assure you I DONOT worship a pagan moon-god. Anyone who tells you this is either a liar or is not well informed about Islam. Again I do not support suicide bombing or terrorism- I do support the fighting of oppression by ANY people regardless of faith. I do not "deny the holocaust" or have racist/nazi beliefs. I am against ALL racism and feel we all share at least the Brotherhood of being the children of Adam (peace be upon him) regardless of if you feel the same or even belive in him, and untill neccisary will treat everyone as such, Any questions?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 09, 2007, 11:29:42 AM
OK, guys. Let me help you here.

I was born and raised in a Muslim country. All of my friends were Muslims. And I even had participated in a student conference on the subject of Islam and Politics.

Now, you have to understand the following:

1) Islam was absolutely fabricated by Mohammed, who stated that the Jews were the chosen people, but they corrupted the Torah;
2) Islam was assembled from pieces taken primarily from Judaism: One G-d, circumcision, no pork etc.
3) Mohammed liked Judaism, but he was against isolationism of the Jews. So he created a religion for all.
4) It was obvious to him that in order to replace Judaism, he had to discredit it first, so he did.
5) It was also obvious to him that nobody would follow an illegal copy of Judaism voluntarily. He saw how Christians were missionizing, and he liked it, but he wanted a more certain success, so he used power and “holy” justification of violence. This is how Islam became a religion of war.
6) He made the process of conversion easier than in Christianity and waaaaay easier than in Judaism, which at those times was significantly more isolated than today. In order to become a Muslim, you need to say that Allah is the only one g-d, and Mohammed is his messenger. That’s it.
7) And of course, even with this simple conversion technique, nobody wanted it, so they were forced to convert. Arabs burned down the territory from Indonesia to Morocco and converted every infidel. Jews were not considered infidels, since they believe in one G-d, but they were considered second class.
8} All Muslims, including those whose forefathers were converted by force, defend other Muslims no matter what. They hate each other, but when an outsider is involved, the Muslim circular defense comes into play.
9) And yes, Islam makes people underdeveloped and envious.

Abdullah is either a liar or he converted into the wrong address.

Why? I’ll tell you… He probably saw the unity of Muslims, their greater morality and modesty level, and he liked it. And let me tell you another thing – there is one good law that Mohammed invented and is different from Judaism – he had forbidden alcohol.

So Abdullah, or whatever his name is, liked the spiritual part of Muslims, and as an expense he had accepted all the weird stuff that Islam is full of.

Let me tell you something, Abdulla:

1) You want to believe in One G-d?
2) You want to have a strong family with a moral girl?
3) You want to circumcise your son(s)?
4) You don’t want to eat pork?
5) Are you against hatred that Islam is full of?
6) And last, but not least, are you ready to make efforts of more than saying that Allah is the only one g-d, and Mohammed is his messenger?

Then don’t buy a cheap and illegal copy of anything. Stick to the original, real thing. An original cannot be corrupted other than by an illegal and pirate copy of it, which is arrogant enough to claim that the original was corrupted.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 09, 2007, 11:43:55 AM
... All of the prophets includeing Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Issac, Adam, and Mohammed PEACE BE UPON THEM ALL....

Do you see the cheap tactic he is using?

1) He places Jesus ahead of all so to buy the favor of Christians here. He put him before Moses and even his own “prophet”.
2) How can you make somebody a prophet, when that person claims he is not a prophet, but a messiah, and then you kill his followers naming them pagans? It clearly shows how Mohammed wanted to incorporate everyone under his new project named Islam, no matter how great the contradictions are.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 09, 2007, 12:42:42 PM
Cheap Tactics? I'm not trying to "gain favor" as you claim by putting the Prophets in a particular order. I just want people to know we are not as different as they would like to belive. If you say I worship a Moon god then I suppose you do the same. In Islam we use the moon for ONE purpose, to keep track of the months in the Islamic calandar. The lie that we worship a pagan moon god was invented by the coptic christians who distorted the Arabic word for the god( something that is worshiped ) "ella". I'm sure there was a moon "ella" in mecca but it is certiantly not Allah, The God of the Prophets in the Torah, Gospel, and Qur'an. You can Lie as you like but you will be held accountable, not by me but God. It is not true that the means justify the ends, If your way is true God will allow you to follow it without disobeying Him. For every lie you tell you will be held accountable, regardless of the reason, regardless of your faith, regardless if you can make people belive it. YOU are hardly qualified to tell ME what I belive, I just want to clear up anything that you might be thinking. I'm not trying to get people to like me, I'm trying to Obey what God- Allah has told us all to do, speak the truth. It is a great Jihad in the eyes of Allah to speak out against lies and oppression. If you want to call me a liar and claim its in Islam to lie than go ahead but its not true, instead of going to each other to find out about Islam and to verify you own hate , why not be reasonable, would you think it fair if I only went to other Muslims to learn about Judaism, would you twist your thinking so much to belive you know more about Islam? You claim Islam mistreat women, lets discuss that. Insha'Allah we will at least gain another perspective at worst and find some common ground at best. I will say again IF you would still call me a liar please show me where in Qur'an there is this "permission to lie to the infedels", If you try to quote a Hadith it is meaningless as there are many fabricated Hadith and one who knows anything about Islam will tell you that If a hadith goes against the Qur'an then it could not possibly be accurate. Peace
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: mord on July 09, 2007, 12:53:01 PM
Before yourname was abdullah what was it
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 09, 2007, 01:02:55 PM
Edward
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 09, 2007, 01:11:03 PM
Cheap Tactics? I'm not trying to "gain favor" as you claim by putting the Prophets in a particular order. I just want people to know we are not as different as they would like to belive. If you say I worship a Moon G-d then I suppose you do the same. In Islam we use the moon for ONE purpose, to keep track of the months in the Islamic calandar. The lie that we worship a pagan moon G-d was invented by the coptic christians who distorted the Arabic word for the G-d( something that is worshiped ) "ella". I'm sure there was a moon "ella" in mecca but it is certiantly not Allah, The G-d of the Prophets in the Torah, Gospel, and Qur'an. You can Lie as you like but you will be held accountable, not by me but G-d. It is not true that the means justify the ends, If your way is true G-d will allow you to follow it without disobeying Him. For every lie you tell you will be held accountable, regardless of the reason, regardless of your faith, regardless if you can make people belive it. YOU are hardly qualified to tell ME what I belive, I just want to clear up anything that you might be thinking. I'm not trying to get people to like me, I'm trying to Obey what G-d- Allah has told us all to do, speak the truth. It is a great Jihad in the eyes of Allah to speak out against lies and oppression. If you want to call me a liar and claim its in Islam to lie than go ahead but its not true, instead of going to each other to find out about Islam and to verify you own hate , why not be reasonable, would you think it fair if I only went to other Muslims to learn about Judaism, would you twist your thinking so much to belive you know more about Islam? You claim Islam mistreat women, lets discuss that. Insha'Allah we will at least gain another perspective at worst and find some common ground at best. I will say again IF you would still call me a liar please show me where in Qur'an there is this "permission to lie to the infedels", If you try to quote a Hadith it is meaningless as there are many fabricated Hadith and one who knows anything about Islam will tell you that If a hadith goes against the Qur'an then it could not possibly be accurate. Peace

Listen to me and read by points and don’t throw a load of emotional statements:

1) Learn about Islam from Muslims? I told you, I was raised in a Muslim country. You are the one who converted and I assume live somewhere in a Christian country. I also said that I had an academic work on Islam.
2) We are not different? So why invent new religions if we were so similar? Why Mohammed invented an illegal copy of Judaism and accused Jews in corrupting Judaism?
3) I don’t support the moon G-d story. Muslims believe in the same G-d as Jews, but Islam is a corrupt and completely fabricated theology, except for those things that were stolen from the Jews.
4) If you want to obey G-d, follow his law, which is the ETERNAL COVENANT. If you want to follow any corrupt copy of it, that is your problem. You want to believe in fake, unoriginal, illegal things, go right ahead.
5) Muslims can’t and don’t want to discuss Islam, because they are afraid of the truth. That’s why they issue death fatwas left and right. Now, do you wanna tell me that death fatwas are also un-Islamic? Is this how you peacefully open to discussion?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: mord on July 09, 2007, 01:17:52 PM
Edward
You know you could keep your name even when you become a moslem
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 09, 2007, 01:21:30 PM
I will add something.

I am against isolationism of Judaism. I am not for proselytizing, but I truly believe, if Judaism was more open thousands of years ago, we would not have any illegal copies of it.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 09, 2007, 01:59:22 PM
) you first point is really just a statement, I was adressing all of the people who read this not just yourself, I don't belive most people have a fair understanding of Islam.
2) We are not accusing you of corrupting Judaism but rather God is. Now this may seem harsh but it is our belief, Do you have an origianal torah? You might have one in Hebrew but can you be certian of its accurasy? We follow the Religion of Allah, what he taught ALL the Prophets, the Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) did not "invent" Islam as you claim. Islam is the original religion of the Jews and what the true followers of Jesus(pbuh) followed. I know I will probably get Angry responses but it is the Truth.
3) Alhamdulillah you don't buy the coptic lies but as I already stated Islam is not fabricated.
4)I try my best to follow the laws of God, but I do not belive we are in agreement on which laws are false and corrupted. I will respond with your quote- "If you want to follow any corrupt copy of it, that is your problem. You want to believe in fake, unoriginal, illegal things, go right ahead."
5)I can't speek for all Muslims but I can and Do wish to discuss Islam. I don't say that All death fatwas are un-Islamic but they are certianly not for people who criticise Islam. If you are reffering to the Author of "satanic verses" the Fatwa was "recalled". It was never legitimate anyway based one the Qur'an but I am not entirely certian.

As for the other question yes I know I don't have to change my name but I wanted to. Its not like I hate the name Edward but I like Abdullah a lot more, It means "slave of God" or "servant of Allah"
which I would like to be.It also kind of represents my new life as a Muslim. You do actually have to change it if its contadictory to Islam like for example "Christian". As for the reason for my "emotional" response , I don't like being called a liar, especially in a catch 22 scenario. I will try to ansewer any other questions .Peace
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 09, 2007, 02:05:04 PM
I'll tell you more, Edward.

You tell me to read Qur'an? I have.

Have you read Torah? I am sure you have not.

Now, how can you convert into Islam that claims it is a more authentic version of Juduaism without reading Torah?

How can you read a book in a foreign language without first learning the language?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 09, 2007, 02:08:31 PM
Edward/Abdullah, I'm prepared to stand up for you against flaming and baseless insults, but just so you know, I am as opposed if not more opposed to your religion than anyone else on this site, anyway, can you respond to my first post in this thread:

Firstly, guys, lets be civil, hurling insults that go beyond the truth belittles us, not the person we are trying to inuslt.

It doesn't seam that many points have really been made, other than mindless insults, however, there is one that Abdullah raised that I would specifically like to refute.

In response to the earlier question here is the definition of a "Innocent civilian"- any non-combatant.
Its is not true that Islam say All non-Muslims are not innocent, actually quite the oppisite. The Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) once said " whoever harms a non-muslim citizen has harmed me" here is a verse from the Holy Qur'an that is of a similar theme- 5:32 " Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land"

If you give the refference for the quote "whoever harms a non-muslim citizen has harmed me" so i may look at the context I'll be able to comment about it, but for now I'll have to stick to the one that you have referenced.

Lets take this verse as it appears without added notes:

Quran Surah 5 Ayat 32:

"Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits in the land."

Firstly, this verse has no instructions in it for muslims at all "We ordained for the Children of Israel", it is talking about an instruction for Jews, not muslims. Now the definition of "spreading mischeif in the land" is a matter of great dispute, some muslims who do accept this verse as being intended to instruct muslims as well as Jews will also say that speaking against Islam is spreading mischeif in the land, so then this verse becomes an encouragement to kill non-muslims. Now if we look at the end of the verse "even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits" remembering that this verse was addressed at the beginning "We ordained for the Children of Israel" we see that the true intention of this verse is to call Jews evil. So far from being a message of peace, this verse is anti-semitic nazi style propoganda.

Do your research before making another point.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 09, 2007, 02:21:52 PM
....
2) We are not accusing you of corrupting Judaism but rather G-d is. Now this may seem harsh but it is our belief, Do you have an origianal torah?...

G-d is accusing the Jews... Says who? Mohammed? A guy who claims to see it in his dreams?

Mohammed did not accuse the Jews, but G-d did?

You know, you can be the greatest liar, but you won't find any retards here to buy such a childish statement.

The Allmighty G-d divided the Red Sea for the Jews, but He was so incapable and came into Mohammed's dream and could not do anything more than that?

If G-d spoke to Mohammed and accused the Jews, then let me make a similar statement: I spoke to G-d yesterday and He said that He never spoke to Mohammed.

You believe me? Of couse not, but if I force you, if I rape your sister and mother, you will find sense in my words. That's exactly what Mohammed did.

Nobody trusted him, but he forced them. Will you deny this too?

Now. If Torah is so corrupt (G-d forbid), why the Jews followed Moses without a single harsh move from him, and all current Muslims are children of those who were converted by force?

Not only Moses made a lot of sense, Jews saw the miracles of G-d. The whole nation saw it, not only Moses.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 09, 2007, 02:41:53 PM
I diagree with you "interpretation" of the verse. Maybe this one will help clear it up-5/28 "If you do stretch your hand against me to kill me, I shall never stretch my hand against you to kill you, for I fear Allah; the Lord of the Alameen (mankind, jinns, and all that exists)." 
You seem to forget your blasphamy laws.
Here are some not so peaceful verses out of the bible

Rom. 12:19 teaches (1) we are not to avenge or exact justice on our own but rather (2) "give place", i.e., make room for, God's wrath. What is meant by "God's wrath" is explained in the next phrase: "Vengeance belongeth unto me; I will recompense, saith the Lord." So evil men experience God's wrath as He takes vengeance on them. But how and when does God do this? Read Rom. 13:1-7.

There are "higher powers" ("Caesar's judgment-seat", Acts 25:10) that God has "ordained", vs. 1. Those who arrange themselves in battle (see Vine, p. 958) against their authority are setting themselves against God and shall receive judgment, vs. 2. But when and how does this judgment take place? Vss. 3-4 make it clear: rulers are intended to be a "terror" to evil men and their deeds, vs. 3, because they are ministers of God. Through the ministers of civil government God wields the "sword", the instrument of justice and punishment, and His intention is that it not be "borne" ("a continual or habitual condition," Vine, 93) "in vain" ("to no purpose", Vine, 1193).

Clearly, the "wrath of God" that we are to "give place to" as He takes vengeance is that which is administered at human hands in various forms of civil government as they wield the "sword."

I got this out of a christian site so don't call it "propaganda"
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 09, 2007, 02:47:16 PM
You simply cannot "convert" someone to Islam( make them a Muslim by force)
It is impossible as one has to CHOOSE to submit to the Will of God willingly to even BE a Muslim. Islam being spread by the sword is an outright lie. I belived I heard someone mention the Time when the Prophet lead the belives against a caravan? Well they forgot to mention how the Caravan was of their possesions that were stolen after they left Mecca. Plain and Simple you can't force someone to be a Muslim, its against the very word Islam.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 09, 2007, 02:56:32 PM
Right, lots to say.

Firstly, you did not counter my points, you sidestepped what I raised and responded with another out of context verse, read from suran 5 Ayat 20 through to surah 5 Ayat 28 (the one that you quoted), it is quite clear that this is again a report of an instruction that was apparently given to the Jews.

Now regarding your other points, you'll have to link me to the website you found them on so that I can see all the relevant details of what is being said.

The word Islam means Submission, there is little tht is peaceful or friendly in the word submission. There are many many report in the hadiths of Mohhammed leading his followers in the murder of non-muslims, there is at least one account of him raping a Jewish woman, and there is an account of him marrying a 6 year old, and then when he first had sex with her, she was playing with her dolls when her mother came and took her to the "prophet", you may say that the hadiths were fabricated, but if they were, answer me this how? when? why? There is some evidence that they were produced at very varried times, and yet they tell a consistant story of an evil violant sex addicted manl, if they were fabricated why are they consistant?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 09, 2007, 03:03:20 PM
You simply cannot "convert" someone to Islam( make them a Muslim by force)
It is impossible as one has to CHOOSE to submit to the Will of G-d willingly to even BE a Muslim. Islam being spread by the sword is an outright lie. I belived I heard someone mention the Time when the Prophet lead the belives against a caravan? Well they forgot to mention how the Caravan was of their possesions that were stolen after they left Mecca. Plain and Simple you can't force someone to be a Muslim, its against the very word Islam.

Not only don’t you have respect for others, you have no respect for yourself.

Islam means submission!!!

Mohammed did not occupy the area from Indonesia to Morocco? He did not convert them into Islam?

Now I will tell you something so you could finally go back and read more books and not be so ignorant.

I am from Azerbaijan, the second largest Shiite Muslim country after Iran.

Azerbaijanis call themselves “Muslims by sword”!!! They admit that they were forced to convert.

And indeed the Azerbaijanis were either Christians or Zoroastrians before Arabs invaded them.

A national hero of Azerbaijan is a man named Babek (798 — 838 CE), who led the strongest resistance to Arabs in the history of Arab occupational wars.

Mohammed ordered his people to occupy as much of the world as they could and create Caliphates. So they did.

So if you want to argue on the kindergarten level, that is not the place for that, and I strongly suggest not to waste people’s time here.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 09, 2007, 03:24:29 PM
First I cannot answer all questions when asked about SO many topics at once by Multiple people. I do intend to answer them but you will have to ask them again one at a time to be fair. I'm not saying one person at a time but a little less of a barrage.
The site is Canadian and Christian here is the link
http://www.bible.ca/ef/ (http://www.bible.ca/ef/)
Here is the site I like to use for the Qur'an
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=1&translator=5&mac= (http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=1&translator=5&mac=)
 I would rather not have broad theological debates that don't really have a point, but meaningful discussion on certian topics. Please choose one at a time. Peace
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 09, 2007, 04:01:49 PM
I can't fond those comments on that chrsitian site, could you link me to the right page please.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Shlomo on July 09, 2007, 04:05:24 PM
Abdullah is giving up... he can't handle it. That didn't take long. I guess the JTF infidels might know something about islam.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 09, 2007, 04:06:08 PM
Abdullah is giving up... he can't handle it. That didn't take long. I guess the JTF infidels might know something about islam.
Where did he say that he gives up? How dull, it was just looking like it might get interesting...
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 09, 2007, 04:10:02 PM
Abdullah is giving up... he can't handle it. That didn't take long. I guess the JTF infidels might know something about islam.
Where did he say that he gives up? How dull, it was just looking like it might get interesting...

Ftf, don't waste your time. He is not an honest and/or knowledgeable debater.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 09, 2007, 04:12:53 PM
I enjoy debates whoever the opponent.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 09, 2007, 04:25:00 PM
I diden't "give up"
Here is the exact link
http://www.bible.ca/ef/topical-the-bible-and-capital-punishment.htm (http://www.bible.ca/ef/topical-the-bible-and-capital-punishment.htm)
Peace
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 09, 2007, 04:31:18 PM
Ok, lets look at what is being said on that website, people who do evil things will be punished by their government, i.e. murderers will go to jail.

I'm not going to argue about the specific interpretation of those verses from the new testament that is posted on that site despite the fact that I think they are misunderstanding them, because even their misunderstanding does not lead to any evil ideas, only the idea that governments will puish criminals, which is common sense in any sane country.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 09, 2007, 05:41:05 PM
Are there any more questions?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 09, 2007, 05:41:56 PM
Are there any more questions?
You still haven't answered any of mine...
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 09, 2007, 05:50:17 PM
could you repeat one of them please?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 09, 2007, 05:53:12 PM
What is the arabic word for compomise?

PS: this is a trick question because there ISN'T one.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 09, 2007, 05:55:51 PM
What does it matter? Is that a question?
Hate me as you like but please just send it to my e-mail
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 09, 2007, 05:58:13 PM
What does it matter? Is that a question?
Hate me as you like but please just send it to my e-mail

NO. I'm going to do you publicly......one stroke at a time.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 09, 2007, 06:00:08 PM
Yes and thats all your doing. please ask a question or something.
Its disrespectful to the fourm to clog it with pages of mindless hate
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 09, 2007, 06:01:04 PM
Newman, just shut up unless you have something logical to say, Abdullah:

In response to the earlier question here is the definition of a "Innocent civilian"- any non-combatant.
Its is not true that Islam say All non-Muslims are not innocent, actually quite the oppisite. The Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) once said " whoever harms a non-muslim citizen has harmed me" here is a verse from the Holy Qur'an that is of a similar theme- 5:32 " Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land"

If you give the refference for the quote "whoever harms a non-muslim citizen has harmed me" so i may look at the context I'll be able to comment about it, but for now I'll have to stick to the one that you have referenced.

Lets take this verse as it appears without added notes:

Quran Surah 5 Ayat 32:


"Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits in the land."

Firstly, this verse has no instructions in it for muslims at all "We ordained for the Children of Israel", it is talking about an instruction for Jews, not muslims. Now the definition of "spreading mischeif in the land" is a matter of great dispute, some muslims who do accept this verse as being intended to instruct muslims as well as Jews will also say that speaking against Islam is spreading mischeif in the land, so then this verse becomes an encouragement to kill non-muslims. Now if we look at the end of the verse "even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits" remembering that this verse was addressed at the beginning "We ordained for the Children of Israel" we see that the true intention of this verse is to call Jews evil. So far from being a message of peace, this verse is anti-semitic nazi style propoganda.

Do your research before making another point.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 09, 2007, 06:05:30 PM
Yes and thats all your doing. please ask a question or something.
Its disrespectful to the fourm to clog it with pages of mindless hate

The fact that someone who adheres to a religion that is dedicated to the mass murder of every Jew on this planet is on here is an insult to this forum.

BTW: No westerner converts to your vile religion unless they are unballanced. Are you a loonie or are you punnishing your parents for not buying you a pony when you were 10?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 09, 2007, 06:09:36 PM
Quote:
Newman, just shut up unless you have something logical to say


Pull your head in,ftf

You deal with the Jew-hater your way,I'll deal with him in mine. And if you don't like it.......TOUGH!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 09, 2007, 06:10:38 PM
Newman, just shut up unless you have something logical to say, Abdullah:


Please be respectful to the other posters.


I cannot respect someone who is not respectful of me or others.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 09, 2007, 06:12:08 PM
Newman, just shut up unless you have something logical to say, Abdullah:


Please be respectful to the other posters.


I cannot respect someone who is not respectful of me or others.

If you think any Jew, Noachide is going to be respecful to ANY nazi, you have a screw loose.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 09, 2007, 06:13:53 PM
Firstly to newman- This is the last message that I will reespond to of yours. I will not waste my time or energy trying to talk with someone who is so blind and hateful.

Next to ftf- You forget that we belive that the Jews were also muslims, meaning one who submits to God. We belive that the Jews have strayed from Islam scince but it was to all Muslims.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 09, 2007, 06:17:40 PM
Firstly to newman- This is the last message that I will reespond to of yours. I will not waste my time or energy trying to talk with someone who is so blind and hateful.

Next to ftf- You forget that we belive that the Jews were also muslims, meaning one who submits to G-d. We belive that the Jews have strayed from Islam scince but it was to all Muslims.

That is one of many examples of your vile herassy.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 09, 2007, 06:18:12 PM
Firstly to newman- This is the last message that I will reespond to of yours. I will not waste my time or energy trying to talk with someone who is so blind and hateful.

Next to ftf- You forget that we belive that the Jews were also muslims, meaning one who submits to G-d. We belive that the Jews have strayed from Islam scince but it was to all Muslims.
The verse that you are quoting though specifically says  that it was an instruction Jews, and then goes onto say that they didn't keep it, and therefore should be punished. Hence my reasoning in calling it anti-semitic. If it was a command for all muslims it would say it straight out rather than saying "SO we said to the people of moses" or "so we said to the Jews".
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 09, 2007, 06:20:06 PM
I've never seen or heard of a black nazi... Are you saying that the Jews don't submit to the will of God?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 09, 2007, 06:21:56 PM
We belive that the Jews have strayed from Islam scince but it was to all Muslims.

Try to speak comprehensible English you pathetic mooooozie swine !!!

LMAO !!!  The Jews strayed from Islam !!!!!!!
BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAALLLLAH !!!!!!

Two thousand years before MoHAM was raping 9 year old Ayisha, there was already ISRAEL....but this moooooozie swine says it's the Jews who have strayed !!!

DEATH TO ISLAM AND ALL IT'S FOLLOWERS !!!!!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 09, 2007, 06:24:06 PM
I've never seen or heard of a black nazi... Are you saying that the Jews don't submit to the will of G-d?
No I am not accusing the Jews of not following God, though I think the term submmit is inappropriate it makes following God sound like a terrible burden.

What I am saying is that the quotes from the quran that you are using to call Islam peaceful all begin with word such as "so we said to the house of abraham" or "to the people of moses" etc, they also end with somments about the Jews not following the commands, they are not addressed to everyone.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 09, 2007, 06:32:03 PM
Sorry if my typing is not up to par, I'm using a horrorable keybord ,I useally tend to spell bad and write like I would speak anyway. As for my english- well its my first and only launguage , other than some Arabic and very little spanish. I don't want to get into personal arguements and won't respond to ANY more hate messages. I don't know about everyone else but I personaly can get along with, and even talk with people that I don't agree with, without insulting them or calling them stupid names. If you respect ME i wil respect YOU. Nothing to do with Islam , Nothing to do with Judaism, nothing to do with Zionism. Just a little personal, mutual respect. Peace
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 09, 2007, 06:41:38 PM
Abdullabitch, on this board you'll get treated like the mooooozie swine that you are by the posters that understand Islime and know how to deal with it's vermin.

Yeah, there's a cornhole here that likes to treat you with respect (when he's not busy saying it's right to convert Jews or telling newman to shut up), but he won't last.

So Abdoomoobitch get used to being treated with the contempt, derision, and hostility you so richly deserve, each and every time I see one of your worthless mooooozie posts.

Around here, YOU'RE the dhimmi biyatch.

You'll get treated with all the respect you deserve and you'll be treated just like you mooooozies like to treat 'infidels'.

It is with the that degree of respect that I say:
[censored] YOU MOO !
DEATH TO ISLAM !!!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 09, 2007, 06:45:51 PM
ftf has deleted one of my questions to this muzzie swine on another thread without any justification. I'm getting fed up.

Muck and all other righteous folk, we have to do something here.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 09, 2007, 06:54:49 PM
Don't worry newman.

You're a great poster and a real asset to this forum.

I really, really enjoy reading your stuff and almost always agree with you.

How JTF leadership allows someone that thinks it's correct to try to convert Jews to Christianity to be a moderator on this forum is beyond me, but I have a feeling that situation will sort itself out.

You'll still be here and someone else will be joining Allen-T.

If you're reading this Abdul:
[censored] YOU MOO !
DEATH TO ISLAM !!!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: mord on July 09, 2007, 06:57:47 PM
Abdullah why did the muslims accept part of laws for example they don'nt eat pork but they eat seafood they eat meat and dairy products together.Also why did'nt G_d tell Moses PBUH to follow Islam was he keeping it a secret
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 09, 2007, 07:11:13 PM
2 things
1) Louis Farakhan is not a "Black Nazi" he is a member of the "nation of islam", which dispite its name has NOTHING to do with the teachings of Islam. Most people know this but sadly some people don't know that the nation of Islam is just as Islamic as the KKK is Christian, they claim to be following their faith but are racist and Bastarising their respective faiths. Also the "nation of Islam" reject several basic Islamic belifs and are not considered Muslims(they even call themself "black muslims") by anyone other than themselves.

2)We belive that over the years the Commands of God, the torah became corrupted and changed around. For example we belive that pork was always forbidden but Shellfish never were. We as most know, don't drink ANY alcohol or use drugs, and we don't eat ANY meat unless we are sure that the animal meets certian requirements.
Peace
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Ehud on July 09, 2007, 07:31:12 PM
2 things
1) Louis Farakhan is not a "Black Nazi" he is a member of the "nation of islam", which dispite its name has NOTHING to do with the teachings of Islam. Most people know this but sadly some people don't know that the nation of Islam is just as Islamic as the KKK is Christian, they claim to be following their faith but are racist and Bastarising their respective faiths. Also the "nation of Islam" reject several basic Islamic belifs and are not considered Muslims(they even call themself "black muslims") by anyone other than themselves.

2)We belive that over the years the Commands of G-d, the torah became corrupted and changed around. For example we belive that pork was always forbidden but Shellfish never were. We as most know, don't drink ANY alcohol or use drugs, and we don't eat ANY meat unless we are sure that the animal meets certian requirements.
Peace

That's because Islam stole the concept of dietary laws from Judaism.  You are right, the commandmentsand the Torah were corrupted and changed around.  By Mohammed.  Remember that Judaism came first. 
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 09, 2007, 07:37:19 PM
2 things
1) Louis Farakhan is not a "Black Nazi" he is a member of the "nation of islam", which dispite its name has NOTHING to do with the teachings of Islam. Most people know this but sadly some people don't know that the nation of Islam is just as Islamic as the KKK is Christian, they claim to be following their faith but are racist and Bastarising their respective faiths. Also the "nation of Islam" reject several basic Islamic belifs and are not considered Muslims(they even call themself "black muslims") by anyone other than themselves.

2)We belive that over the years the Commands of G-d, the torah became corrupted and changed around. For example we belive that pork was always forbidden but Shellfish never were. We as most know, don't drink ANY alcohol or use drugs, and we don't eat ANY meat unless we are sure that the animal meets certian requirements.
Peace

Well now I've heard it all!!

The nation of pigslam is not pigslamic? What a joke!

The Torah has been corrupted? Really?!

Why is every single Torah scroll unearthed by archeologists regardless off age consistant?

Why  has no pigslamic text from before mohammerhead's time been found?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Ehud on July 09, 2007, 07:52:50 PM
So Abdullah, I have a question for you.  Hamas which is an Islamic militant movement, is funded by Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, and is fully backed up by Islamic clerics all over the world who wholeheartedly support Hamas and their cause.  Hamas took over in Gaza because Fatah is a "secular" party that doesn't seek to impose Islamic teachings to everyday life at the extent that Hamas does.  Most, if not all of the Islamic "scholars" support Hamas in Gaza.  Hamas is leading the battle to building more construction on the Temple Mount in order to fully dominate it and attempt to finalize the Islamic claim on the area.  This is funded by Saudi Arabian religious clerics and Islamic religious institutions all over the middle east.  Hamas calls for killing of ALL Jews including the killing of innocent children, claims that Islam will dominate the world and that Islam will destroy western civilization.  If you don't believe that killing innocent children is representative of "real" Islam then that means that Hamas which has the backing of Islamic religious leaders all over the world, is wrong and you are right about what Islam truly is.  I would like for you to go to Gaza and tell Hamas and the Islamic religious leaders that what they are following is not true Islam and that they should follow the true Islam that seeks peace with people and upholds civilian life.

I don't know why you guys are even arguing with Abdullah.  I don't even think he's a real Muslim who attends a Mosque every week and who knows enough about Islam to be able to discuss it.  He seems like a recent convert who is intoxicated with the IDEA of Islam without knowing about its true SUBSTANCE. 
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 09, 2007, 07:57:05 PM
URGENT REMINDER !!!!!

MoHAMhead (piss be upon the sewer rat) was a mass murderer, pedophile, rapist, liar, terrorist, thief, scumbag.

The moozie you are attempting to rationally deal with and treat with respect considers Moham a prophet and seeks to emulate him.

DEATH TO ISLAM !
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 09, 2007, 08:52:12 PM
Moozies should be buried upside down with their butts facing Meccaca and stuffed with a pound of Farmer John's bacon.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 09, 2007, 08:54:44 PM
Moozies should be buried upside down with their butts facing Meccaca and stuffed with a pound of Farmer John's bacon.

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Ehud on July 09, 2007, 09:40:08 PM
So where did this coward scurry off to?  I guess he couldn't handle the truth.  Truth for Muslims is like sunlight to vampires.  They detest it and it destroys them.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: cjd on July 09, 2007, 09:43:54 PM
So where did this coward scurry off to?  I guess he couldn't handle the truth.  Truth for Muslims is like sunlight to vampires.  They detest it and it destroys them.
He did the same thing the other day when it gets to hot he clears out for a while.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 09, 2007, 09:44:57 PM
So where did this coward scurry off to?  I guess he couldn't handle the truth.  Truth for Muslims is like sunlight to vampires.  They detest it and it destroys them.

He and ftf both scarpered at the same time. What's going on is anybody's guess.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: cjd on July 09, 2007, 09:52:01 PM
So where did this coward scurry off to?  I guess he couldn't handle the truth.  Truth for Muslims is like sunlight to vampires.  They detest it and it destroys them.

He and ftf both scarpered at the same time. What's going on is anybody's guess.
I know you annoyed with him but ftf is a good guy he tries to be fair to everyone even the opposition and at times that can be a problem. He really would not do anything that would be harmful to JTf.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 09, 2007, 09:56:11 PM
So where did this coward scurry off to?  I guess he couldn't handle the truth.  Truth for Muslims is like sunlight to vampires.  They detest it and it destroys them.

He and ftf both scarpered at the same time. What's going on is anybody's guess.
I know you annoyed with him but ftf is a good guy he tries to be fair to everyone even the opposition and at times that can be a problem. He really would not do anything that would be harmful to JTf.

He is abusing his authority and defying JTF policy
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 09, 2007, 10:15:09 PM
ftf is a great guy.

You just have to ignore his beliefs that it's right for Christians to try to convert Jews and that Islam and Moozies should be treated with respect.

Once you get past that, he's a prince.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 09, 2007, 10:42:08 PM
What we have here is a wet-behind-the-ears, snotty nosed kid who says " I don't care what Chaim says, I don't care about JTF policy, I believe _______________ so I'll do what I like"
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Shlomo on July 09, 2007, 11:17:28 PM
I said this to the moderators and I think it needs to be said here.

To be fair... I can see where ftf wanted to engage in a more intellectual debate with the guy without a bunch of name calling. He got zealous and deleted some of newman's posts (which, in afterthought, wasn't a good idea). The guy has been writing about why Islam is wrong for a while and he wanted to put some of his knowledge to the test. Isn't this even remotely reasonable?

And, obviously, I can see where newman would be offended having his posts deleted. I didn't like the deleting post thing.

I think this thing got out of hand and is being blown out of proportion. This petty fighting has to stop among us.

Unity is so important... I can't stress this enough. If a group has enough unity, they can achieve almost anything. G-d disrupted the unity in the Tower of Babel by changing the languages... even evil people can achieve much if they have unity. It's very important for us to have a higher mindset and work together... to have compassion on the other members no matter what side you are on.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Joe Schmo on July 09, 2007, 11:28:56 PM
I said this to the moderators and I think it needs to be said here.

To be fair... I can see where ftf wanted to engage in a more intellectual debate with the guy without a bunch of name calling. He got zealous and deleted some of newman's posts (which, in afterthought, wasn't a good idea). The guy has been writing about why Islam is wrong for a while and he wanted to put some of his knowledge to the test. Isn't this even remotely reasonable?

And, obviously, I can see where newman would be offended having his posts deleted. I didn't like the deleting post thing.

I think this thing got out of hand and is being blown out of proportion. This petty fighting has to stop among us.

Unity is so important... I can't stress this enough. If a group has enough unity, they can achieve almost anything. G-d disrupted the unity in the Tower of Babel by changing the languages... even evil people can achieve much if they have unity. It's very important for us to have a higher mindset and work together... to have compassion on the other members no matter what side you are on.


Let's all listen to Jeff.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 09, 2007, 11:29:17 PM
Jeffguy, of course you're correct about unity.

But having intellectual debates with a moooozie ?

Please.

Expecting a moooozie to be capable of intellectual debate is like expecting a one legged man to win an asskicking contest.

As I said in an earlier post, I'd rather try to explain to a hamster why we only see one side of the moon than waste my time having a conversation with a mooozie.

But since you're so obviously correct about unity, can we all rise as one and shout with conviction:
DEATH TO ISLAM !!!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Shlomo on July 09, 2007, 11:30:29 PM
Oh man... don't get me wrong... there's no unity with muslim nazi traitors! I was talking about that moron. lol
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 10, 2007, 11:01:04 AM
I don't think there has been a question in a while so If anyone has one they are free to ask.
Peace
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Ehud on July 10, 2007, 11:04:37 AM
So Abdullah, I have a question for you.  Hamas which is an Islamic militant movement, is funded by Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, and is fully backed up by Islamic clerics all over the world who wholeheartedly support Hamas and their cause.  Hamas took over in Gaza because Fatah is a "secular" party that doesn't seek to impose Islamic teachings to everyday life at the extent that Hamas does.  Most, if not all of the Islamic "scholars" support Hamas in Gaza.  Hamas is leading the battle to building more construction on the Temple Mount in order to fully dominate it and attempt to finalize the Islamic claim on the area.  This is funded by Saudi Arabian religious clerics and Islamic religious institutions all over the middle east.  Hamas calls for killing of ALL Jews including the killing of innocent children, claims that Islam will dominate the world and that Islam will destroy western civilization.  If you don't believe that killing innocent children is representative of "real" Islam then that means that Hamas which has the backing of Islamic religious leaders all over the world, is wrong and you are right about what Islam truly is.  I would like for you to go to Gaza and tell Hamas and the Islamic religious leaders that what they are following is not true Islam and that they should follow the true Islam that seeks peace with people and upholds civilian life.

Abdulluh, you must be blind.  Answer this question for me.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 10, 2007, 11:12:59 AM
I've got a few questions.

What makes you think we need to ask YOU questions to know all we need to know about Islam ?

What makes you think we don't know more about Islam than you do ?

What makes you think we're dumb enough or blind enough to believe your crap and disregard what anyone with vision can see ?

Why don't you get the hell out of here ?

Start with those, and when you're done go take a dirt nap.

DEATH TO ISLAM !!!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 10, 2007, 11:13:10 AM
I don't think there has been a question in a while so If anyone has one they are free to ask.
Peace

Abdullah must go.

There is no place here for those who claim that the Jews corrupted the Torah.

But there is plenty of room for those who realize that Mohammed corrupted the word of G-d.

I will give you peace!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 10, 2007, 11:36:19 AM
I saw the post but was unsure the best way to answer. In the question you include alot (most) of incorrect information, so in will have to first ask you to show some proof to back up your claims. I could claim that Israel is "funded" by fish but it doesn't make it true. I can't and won't speek for "most Islamic scholars" around the world but I support the democratically elected Government. Another wildly false statement, "HAMAS's mission is to kill all Jews". Thats just not true AT ALL. Where are you getting this information? Do you support the killing of innocent women and children? Were is the outrage for the Muslim children killed? Also I DO go to the local Mosjid whenever I can.
Peace

My post was edited by someone. I did not say "PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi Government" as it was stated. If you can't even allow for me to say what i mean..... come on
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 10, 2007, 12:13:01 PM
I saw the post but was unsure the best way to answer. In the question you include alot (most) of incorrect information, so in will have to first ask you to show some proof to back up your claims. I could claim that Israel is "funded" by fish but it doesn't make it true. I can't and won't speek for "most Islamic scholars" around the world but I support the democratically elected PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi Government. Another wildly false statement, "HAMAS's mission is to kill all Jews". Thats just not true AT ALL. Where are you getting this information? Do you support the killing of innocent women and children? Were is the outrage for the Muslim children killed? Also I DO go to the local Mosjid whenever I can.
Peace

I want the Admins, as our forum imams, to issue fatwa to ban this kaffir (infidel).  :)
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 10, 2007, 12:21:49 PM
....
2)We belive that over the years the Commands of G-d, the torah became corrupted and changed around. For example we belive that pork was always forbidden but Shellfish never were. We as most know, don't drink ANY alcohol or use drugs, and we don't eat ANY meat unless we are sure that the animal meets certian requirements.

You mean, just because Mohammed liked eating shellfish he invented a new so-called religion and caused so much trouble to the humankind?

He should have moved to Japan and work as a waiter at a sushi bar.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Ehud on July 10, 2007, 12:24:59 PM
Let's keep things simple.  Hamas supports suicide bombings which kills innocent people, including children.  Hamas is funded by religious institutions and countries such as Iran that supports what Hamas is doing.  Is what Hamas does against Islam?  Hamas urges children to become martyrs and to kill themselves for Islam.  Is what Hamas is doing wrong.  Hamas even lets mothers with babies in their bellies and children to murder themselves and innocent civilians for Allah.  Is this wrong?  This last case with two mothers was a somewhat big news story during the past week.  If you didn't hear about it then I'm not going to waste my time finding it for you, you need to inform yourself.   
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Shlomo on July 10, 2007, 12:35:52 PM
I saw the post but was unsure the best way to answer. In the question you include alot (most) of incorrect information, so in will have to first ask you to show some proof to back up your claims. I could claim that Israel is "funded" by fish but it doesn't make it true. I can't and won't speek for "most Islamic scholars" around the world but I support the democratically elected PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi Government. Another wildly false statement, "HAMAS's mission is to kill all Jews". Thats just not true AT ALL. Where are you getting this information? Do you support the killing of innocent women and children? Were is the outrage for the Muslim children killed? Also I DO go to the local Mosjid whenever I can.
Peace

Do you ever read?

Hamas has stated its plans in its Covenant of 1988:

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it. Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious ... The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic
world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realized ... The Movement's programme is Islam ... and the Quran is its constitution.


And...

Jerusalem (CNSNews.com) - The acting speaker of the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi Legislative Council, Sheikh Ahmad Bahr of the Hamas faction, called on Allah to kill the Jews and Americans “down to the very last one” during a sermon broadcast two weeks ago on Sudan television. “America and Israel will be annihilated, Allah willing. I guarantee you that the power of belief and faith is greater than the power of America and Israel,” Bahr said, according to a translation provided by the Middle East Media Research Institute. “They are cowards, who are eager for life, while we are eager for death for the sake of Allah,” Bahr continued. “That is why America’s nose was rubbed in the mud in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Somalia, and everywhere.” Bahr exalted the virtues of the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi woman who sends her son off to die as a “martyr.” “Oh Allah, vanquish the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, vanquish the Americans and their supporters. Oh Allah, count their numbers, and kill them all, down to the very last one…defeat the Jews and the Americans, and bring us victory over them,” Bahr said.

You, obviously, don't get out much. It's no secret that their constitution says to "drive all the Jews into the ocean". You think that means for a swim party?

You know why there's no outrage here for your Hamas children? Because they are terrorists... because they grow up to kill Jews. Muslim arabs are a violent, jealous, evil, "victim mentality - blame everyone else for their own problems" people who kill for their religion. The Jews... they can't even kill arafat (that piece of excrement) who is responsible for the death of thousands of Jews and has killed more black people than the KKK has killed in an entire century.

The "pala-killa-stinians" are filled with hate and will never make a peace treaty... Even Jordan doesn't want them (that's sad)! They can't even get along with themselves without killing each other. They always have ski masks on like criminals who hide while screaming hate speeches and firing weapons into the air like a bunch of maniacs. Ya... GREAT people there. You defend these idiots who's culture comes straight out of the middle ages?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: ftf on July 10, 2007, 04:47:32 PM
Interesting that you mentioned the KKK there:

"Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years. " source (http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchingyear.html)
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 10, 2007, 05:41:02 PM
Interesting that you mentioned the KKK there:

"Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years. " source (http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchingyear.html)

But you keep being nice and civil to them,ftf. I'm sure they'll all mend their ways.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Shlomo on July 10, 2007, 05:46:44 PM
Please, newman. You are instigating and this is off topic. His last post wasn't 'nice'.

It's really obvious that you don't like ftf... I mean... REALLY obvious. Just leave him alone for a while. He's leaving you alone too.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 10, 2007, 06:46:45 PM
Please, newman. You are instigating and this is off topic. His last post wasn't 'nice'.

It's really obvious that you don't like ftf... I mean... REALLY obvious. Just leave him alone for a while. He's leaving you alone too.

Fair enough. Point taken.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 10, 2007, 11:54:36 PM
Alright theres 2 main points.

1) in response to Jeffguy-
    First yes I do read, a good deal actually. I however do not take my news from 1 source or from a few source from the same country. I like to watch and read American "News"(nationalist propaganda) and see which stories are convenitly left out. I usealy read news from several sources to try and find a balence, BBC is usealy the most balenced, CNN, FOX news, Al jazeera, Kavkazcenter.com, and ALL newspapers are often VERY biased. The site you quote is an extremist right-wing "news" site that accept translations from the "Middle East Media Research Institute".MEMRI is notorious for their "convenient editing" and just plain bad translations of debates, speeches,interviews, and television programs. It is run by Coptic christians who spread hate to the west with their lies and selective hearing. I have seen debates where right after the Christian finshes talking the rebutle is conveniently left out. How I know is that I've seen non-MEMRI versions of the same debate and the Christian was clearly the loser, not with radical changes to the words spoken but with ALL of them allowed to be heard. The quote “down to the very last one”  is clearly and purposely given out of context. Do you know what was said before or after it? You might also note the VERY conveiant use of "..." in this quote
“Oh Allah, vanquish the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, vanquish the Americans and their supporters. Oh Allah, count their numbers, and kill them all, down to the very last one…defeat the Jews and the Americans, and bring us victory over them,”
You can also note the comma at the "end" of the sermon. I'm not trying to say that it has vastly differnt meanings from what is said but rather that it allows for asumptions that allow for vastly different meaning to what was said. Also I see that you take "vanquish the Americans and their supporters" as killing them, which is not true.
You go on to say
"You, obviously, don't get out much. It's no secret that their constitution says to "drive all the Jews into the ocean". You think that means for a swim party?"
Please enlighten me as to exactly where it says this. Maybe you mean it is widely belived but not true. Even IF it did say that you surly woulden't think thew would round up all the Jews and have them "walk the plank". I would take it as sending them across the ocean, IF it was in there, which you haven't proved.
As for my question regarding childrens deaths you tried to play with the words. I diden't say HAMAS children, I said Muslim children. With that I don't mean just in Eretz Yisrael, i mean all over the world. Do you feel no outrage for their deaths. I don't know about you but when ANY child dies I am outraged, even if they would be my enemies children.

2)to ftf-
I never claimed that the KKK was more violent. But the "Islamic Extremists" as you call them certianly don't kill 1,297 people a day and 473,405 people a year. If I'm wrong please show me those statistics. Also your lynching statisics only go up to 1968 and only covers "lynching", not any other type of violence such as shootings or rapes. I only used the KKK as an example because they claim their "Christian teachings" allow them to terrorize all people who aren't White protasants. Now why don't we look at the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi-israeli conflict.
Read through these.
http://www.rememberthesechildren.org/remember2000.html
Its painfuly obvious who kills children.
Peace
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 12:01:24 AM
Now look here abdul,

You're here to be the ambassedor for pigslam so answer my questions.

What will you use to circumcise your daughter?

Tin, broken bottle or angle grinder?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 11, 2007, 12:18:43 AM
Are you still here you filthy moozie beast ?

I'm going to get the moderators to put a filter on that 'allahu akbar' crap you like to type. I think we can change that to 'allah crackwhore' or something more appropo.

Righteous people shouldn't have to tolerate your allahu akbar bullshiite.

In the meantime, take a look at this site, you Mohamheadan [censored].

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)

Finish reading that and then come back with your bullshiite about innocent Moozies getting killed.

Take a good look at the global rampage of terrorism, murder and mayhem you moooozie beasts are on. It's absolutely disgusting to any person with a shred of decency. Obviously, that excludes you and your moooozie bretheren.

In fact, looking at the results of Islamist carnage leads me to believe that killing mooozies is ALWAYS justified as an act of self-defense. It's clear that co-existing with you savages is an impossibility.

DEATH TO ISLAM !!!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 11, 2007, 12:55:10 AM
wow you don't think God is the Greatest?
Thats a shame but I sincerly do and will say it whenever I want untill I die insha'Allah
So in defiance to your Atheistic demands I say
ALLAHU AKBAR!!
God is indeed the Greatest
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 12:59:27 AM
wow you don't think G-d is the Greatest?
Thats a shame but I sincerly do and will say it whenever I want untill I die insha'Allah
So in defiance to your Atheistic demands I say
ALLAHU AKBAR!!
G-d is indeed the Greatest
OUR G-D IS the greatest, mutt face. The G_d of Abraham, Isacc and Jacob!

NOT the moon-dog of mucka,Mo' and the ho
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 11, 2007, 01:04:29 AM
Yes OUR God is the greatest, belive it or don't, it makes no difference to me.
How can you be a jew and claim theres more than one God?
I've already explained your Moon-god lie out the window.
I will say it again
Allahu Akbar!!
God is the Greatest
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 01:11:46 AM
Yes OUR G-d is the greatest, belive it or don't, it makes no difference to me.
How can you be a jew and claim theres more than one G-d?
I've already explained your Moon-G-d lie out the window.
I will say it again
Allahu Akbar!!
G-d is the Greatest

'Explained out the window'? :laugh: :laugh:

All you've done is deny down the sewer. There is ONLY the G_d of Israel!

You worship a big, ugly black rock....which will soon be blown-up to build a nice pigsty.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 11, 2007, 01:12:58 AM
Abdullah,

I agree, there is One G-d and He is the Greatest.

But (there is one important but) Mohammed is NOT His Messenger!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 11, 2007, 01:16:59 AM
Well thats not what your friend was saying. He wants to ban the phrase God is the Greatest.
Allahu Akbar does not have anything to do with the Prophet Mohammed(pbuh).
What he is saying is insulting God, the God we ALL worship, and is vile.
Allahu Akbar!!
God is the Greatest
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 01:20:12 AM
Well thats not what your friend was saying. He wants to ban the phrase G-d is the Greatest.
Allahu Akbar does not have anything to do with the Prophet Mohammed(pbuh).
What he is saying is insulting G-d, the G-d we ALL worship, and is vile.
Allahu Akbar!!
G-d is the Greatest


G_d is NOT called allah!....or kieth or george. His full holy name is known only to the Children of Israel. You pigslims wouldn't know if your butts were on fire, let alone G_d's name.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 11, 2007, 01:23:23 AM
Well thats not what your friend was saying. He wants to ban the phrase G-d is the Greatest.
Allahu Akbar does not have anything to do with the Prophet Mohammed(pbuh).
What he is saying is insulting G-d, the G-d we ALL worship, and is vile.
Allahu Akbar!!
G-d is the Greatest

I think what my friend, newman, is trying to say that there is One G-d, but there are different religions, and Islam is a fake one.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 01:25:31 AM
Well thats not what your friend was saying. He wants to ban the phrase G-d is the Greatest.
Allahu Akbar does not have anything to do with the Prophet Mohammed(pbuh).
What he is saying is insulting G-d, the G-d we ALL worship, and is vile.
Allahu Akbar!!
G-d is the Greatest


I think what my friend, newman, is trying to say that there is One G-d, but there are different religions, and Islam is a fake one.

'fake' is putting it mildly.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 11, 2007, 01:26:14 AM
I thought I told you not to come back until you finished reading the site I linked you to.

Just spoke to the pagan moon dog about you again, Abdoomoozie.

He's very unhappy with you. Your failing to complete the assignment I gave you, which was intended to educate your hopelessly ignorant mooozie mind, upsets ole Al-ilah, tremendously.

I'll quote him again for you:

"Did Abdumoo fail to listen again ? Even Stevie Wonder can see what a crock of shiite Islam is. It amazes me how anyone can actually swallow that crap. It's obvious I made a terrible mistake creating mooozies, but I'll correct that soon."

The pagan moon dog has spoken !!

DEATH TO ISLAM !!!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 11, 2007, 01:30:24 AM
Well he should say that then. I can fully tolerate someone who belives Islam to be false- by their very nature ALL religions consider the other false. I never said I accepted  the legitemacy of other Faiths, just the right of one to belive in them. I'm not the one who has aproblem with anyone.
Anyway I'm still open for questions.
Peace.

BTW- I will ignore ALL questions regarding the female genatal mutalation of my family members with ANY objects.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 11, 2007, 01:34:32 AM
ALLAH SEZ:

"I'm a pagan moon dog hallucination of that psychotic piece of excrement named Mohamhead, but don't bother trying to get the mooozies to understand this. They're so dumb I could put their brains in a camel's butt and the camel would walk backwards."

DEATH TO ISLAM !!!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Shlomo on July 11, 2007, 01:34:48 AM
Abdullah, ok... so how do you think we are going to get anywhere if you "speculate" that my sources are "right wing" and therefore not trustworthy. Ya... that's real honest. Wonderful.

You won't answer any questions... you deny everything - even the obvious... and then you give me a bunch of links to surf through. You are one master debater, there. Wow.

We all read the news from multiple countries. Some here speak fluent arabic. So what's next... are you going to deny the holocaust? Are you going to deny there are suicide bombers? Is that how you debate? So pretty much all the news is wrong because you said? That's terrific. You're a genius, man...

From 1952 to 1970, Egypt's president Gamal Abdel Nasser publicly called for the physical extermination of Israel and the Jewish people - a call that was enthusiastically echoed by the other 21 Arab dictators. They tried exterminating Israel in the 1967 Six Day War. A bunch of muslim dirtbags slammed a plane into the Twin Towers in New York. They have pictures of the mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseini, in 1941 sitting right next to Hitler... but none of that REALLY happened, right? That was all kind of a "joke"... the news and the encyclopedias and everything just lied to be mean to the arabs. Wow... if only I had known.

I guess that's pretty typical coming from a muslim. Honesty isn't one of your strong points through-out history. It all started with Muhammered making fake treaties (Hodaibya ring a bell?) and then exterminating entire peoples a few years later... oh ya... that didn't happen either, right?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 01:35:12 AM
Well he should say that then. I can fully tolerate someone who belives Islam to be false- by their very nature ALL religions consider the other false. I never said I accepted  the legitemacy of other Faiths, just the right of one to belive in them. I'm not the one who has aproblem with anyone.
Anyway I'm still open for questions.
Peace.

BTW- I will ignore ALL questions regarding the female genatal mutalation of my family members with ANY objects.

OK head-banger, I've got a serious question about the koran.

I've been using them as toilet paper for the last five years and now my bum is getting chafed. My doctor says it could lead to anal fissures.

My question is: Do they print a koran in 4-ply extra soft?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 11, 2007, 01:44:06 AM
I have a question for you.

Actually, several. But I'll start with this one.

How is it possible that 5 million Jews on a tiny sliver of land smaller than the state of New Jersey consistently slaps the camel urine out of 500 million moozies occupying a combined land mass nearly twice that of the United States ?

I know you don't have an answer.

So let me tell you the answer. I got it straight from Allah.

Allah says:

"The answer is obvious. I'm a pagan moon dog with absolutely no legitimacy or power. There is only one G-d and it sure as shiite aint me. It's also obvious the one REAL G-d loves the Jews and hates those vile moooozie vermin."

ALLAH HAS SPOKEN !

DEATH TO ISLAM !!!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 11, 2007, 01:48:30 AM
Now, let me tell you, Abdullah.

I want all people to believe in One G-d, but in order to do that you either simply start believing in Him or convert into the religion of One G-d, which is Judaism.

But you don’t go and invent your own version of an existing religion.

Jews had believed in One G-d for thousands of years before Mohammed was born. During the thousands of years Arabs worshipped stones and fire.

Only in 7th century Mohammed comes and claims that the Jews corrupted the Torah, and guess what, he saw it his dream, which I don’t believe he did, and if he did, who cares.

Nobody cared about, but they were forced to care. You see? Jews are Chosen People, and Muslims are Forced People, Raped People. Do you understand where I am going with this?

My forefathers were chosen and they voluntarily chose to believe in One G-d.
The forefathers of all Muslims were killed and raped and then they pretended to believe just to survive.

So, we do believe in One G-d, but what (largely) we do different?

Muslims don’t drink alcohol, and I respect this law. It is a good law, even though I have never seen a Jewish alcoholic, it is still good.

And that is it? That was enough to claim that Jews corrupted the Torah?

Of course not, unless you want to use religion to gain money, sex, and power.

Mohammed did exactly that. He was a Caliph, he killed and raped personally.

He had absolute power. Enough power to justify his pedophilic experience with Aisha.

Therefore, there is One G-d, the Almighty. And there was Mohammed who corrupted the truth for the sake of his lust.

If he spoke to G-d in his dreams, then I am Mickey Mouse.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 01:57:23 AM
Typical towel head.....drops a bomb, then scarpers!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 11, 2007, 02:00:35 AM
Hey moooozie, I've got a business proposition for you.

I normally wouldn't ever consider doing business with a moooozie but I  think this can work out well for both of us.

Here's my idea:

We send you down to Mecca for the next Hajj. They won't let me in because I'm a human with a brain, Hajj is for slimes only, as I'm sure you know.
Anyway, here's the angle: We send you down to Hajj to sell exploding pebbles and cleated sandals !! What could be more useful during the next Hajj stampede ?

We'll make a fortune !!
 
Think about it mooslime.

DEATH TO ISLAM !!!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 11, 2007, 02:01:34 AM
Well he should say that then. I can fully tolerate someone who belives Islam to be false- by their very nature ALL religions consider the other false. I never said I accepted  the legitemacy of other Faiths, just the right of one to belive in them. I'm not the one who has aproblem with anyone.
Anyway I'm still open for questions.
Peace.

BTW- I will ignore ALL questions regarding the female genatal mutalation of my family members with ANY objects.

As I said earlier, Torah was given to Jews thousands of years before Mohammed invented Islam. Judaism is not based and doesn’t have any roots in any other religion. We don’t claim that some religion was corrupted because all other religions came thousands of years after ours one.

You say “ALL religions consider the other false”?

1) We don’t consider Islam as anything worth of considering;
2) We don’t consider Islam a religion;
3) Islam is an empty place. All those things that have any value there were stolen from Judaism. The rest is stories of the pedophile.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 11, 2007, 02:02:38 AM
First I will say that I never claimed to be a master Debator or genious, I still don't.
I also gave you not 1 link in my post, There was one in there but it was not for the explaination of you question but rather ftf's.
I also diden't say your "news" site wasen't reliable because its right-wing, I said it wasen't relaibale because of the sources it uses to get its stories. It dosen't even claim to be the one quoteing the person that there reporting about. Theres nothing wrong with right-wing, but It is not a reliable source for news. Why don't you give the FULL speach if your so sure of it.
You talk about the treaty of Hudaibiya. You claim it was violated by the Muslims when it was IN FACT violated by the Meccans. If you want to argue that then back it up.
I also don't get why your bringing up so much from the past- long before the speech I was talking about. Your being far to general by saying that since a Muslim got his picture with Hittler were all nazis.
I deny that ONE "news' source is inaccurate and you claim I don't belive any news. It just not true and not what I said.
Why don't you try to answer the questions I asked you in the Last post?
You keep making wild allegations, not acknoleging when I call you out to prove them.
You diden't really ask any question in your last post or answer any.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 02:08:28 AM
What about the 4-ply extra soft koran?............my butt cant take much more of these cheap pigslamic bookshop ones. I've been to the indian curry buffet and I need a soft koroilet paper. If you have any humanity tell me where I can get a good one. Piss
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 11, 2007, 02:09:54 AM
I have a qustion about your "timeless" Religion. Why is it called Judaism?
Who was your first Prophet?
Who was your last Prophet?
How many Prophets do you belive in?
Peace
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 11, 2007, 02:17:30 AM
Just found out this mooozie's full name.

Abdullah Fullah Bullah

DEATH TO ISLAM !!!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 11, 2007, 02:19:21 AM
I would like for any jew to answer My last post seriously
Peace
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 02:28:33 AM
I would like for any jew to answer My last post seriously
Peace
I'm a noachide. I shall fetch a learned Jew for your question. But answer my question first.......my bum's on fire from your crappy, cheap koran. Where can I get 4-ply extra soft mohomad cartoon edition???
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 11, 2007, 02:28:59 AM
Was having a discussion with a bud the other day.

He says to me: "The only good Muslim is an ex-Muslim."

Now this concerns me because I think he's going soft.

So I say: "What about the dead ones ?"

He says: "Nah, even the dead ones take up space."

We're still friends.


DEATH TO ISLAM !!!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 02:32:32 AM
Was having a discussion with a bud the other day.

He says to me: "The only good Muslim is an ex-Muslim."

Now this concerns me because I think he's going soft.

So I say: "What about the dead ones ?"

He says: "Nah, even the dead ones take up space."

We're still friends.


DEATH TO ISLAM !!!

But you can use the live ones to feed the pigs they raise to sniff out suicide bombers, which you then shoot and feed to other bomb-sniffer pigs. It's perfect sustainability and economic to boot.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Raulmarrio2000 on July 11, 2007, 02:35:31 AM
I have a qustion about your "timeless" Religion. Why is it called Judaism?
Who was your first Prophet?
Who was your last Prophet?
How many Prophets do you belive in?
Peace

Shalom, Salaam
I am not a Jew, but was seven years studying to convert to Orthodox Judaism.
The First prophet was Avraham (which the Koran calls Ibarahim). The last Prophet in Judaism was Malachi. Jews believe in all the Prophets that are mentioned in the Tanakh (which Christians call Old Testamnt).
Why the name Judaism? Well, The People of Israel was constituted by Twelve Tribes, after the destruction of the Northern Kingdom of Israel (ten tribes). The remaining Tribes were Judah and Bymiamin. Judah was a bigger tribe. So most Israelites were from Judah. It has becomed a custom to call the Israelites Jews( from Judah (Yehudah).
However, the Samaritans claim that they are descendants of the Northern Kingdom who escaped destruction. They call themselves Israelites and reject the word "Jewish"
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 11, 2007, 02:39:17 AM
I have a qustion about your "timeless" Religion. Why is it called Judaism?
Who was your first Prophet?
Who was your last Prophet?
How many Prophets do you belive in?
Peace

OK. At least you are willing to learn, and don't hide behind your arrogant questions.

What you call my timeless religion, and it really is (won't argue with you here), is called Judaism only for reference to distinguish it from Christianity and Islam.

There is no original name to my religion, other than belief in One G-d.

Now, after Islam was invented, Muslims claimed to believe in the same G-d, and that’s why Mohammed called it Islam to distinguish it from the original religion of One G-d.

Jews themselves did not call it Judaism until other religions came into existence.

Jews for thousands of years were the only people on the face of the Earth to believe in One G-d.

So how would you identify a Jew in those times? You would simply ask him if he believes in One G-d.

How would you identify others, like Arabs, at that time? You would ask him If believes in stones and animals.

The term Judaism is coming from Juda, or Yehuda, meaning Ye (One) Huda (G-d).

My first prophet was Abraham.

My last prophet was Oded, not Mohammed and not Isa (Jesus).

There are 48 prophets and 7 prophetesses that I believe in.

Any other questions?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 11, 2007, 02:53:26 AM
Jazak'Allah I did not know exactly what you belived.
I actually do have another question, Do you belive in the Angels? Do you belive in the Jinn? Do you belive in the day of Judgement?
It might sound like I'm trying to help you make Shahada but I'm not. I've never actually asked a Jew before. I'm not interested in converting mind you, but just curious.
Peace
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Mishmaat on July 11, 2007, 03:00:28 AM
First I will say that I never claimed to be a master Debator or genious, I still don't.
I also gave you not 1 link in my post, There was one in there but it was not for the explaination of you question but rather ftf's.
I also diden't say your "news" site wasen't reliable because its right-wing, I said it wasen't relaibale because of the sources it uses to get its stories. It dosen't even claim to be the one quoteing the person that there reporting about. Theres nothing wrong with right-wing, but It is not a reliable source for news. Why don't you give the FULL speach if your so sure of it.
You talk about the treaty of Hudaibiya. You claim it was violated by the Muslims when it was IN FACT violated by the Meccans. If you want to argue that then back it up.
I also don't get why your bringing up so much from the past- long before the speech I was talking about. Your being far to general by saying that since a Muslim got his picture with Hittler were all nazis.
I deny that ONE "news' source is inaccurate and you claim I don't belive any news. It just not true and not what I said.
Why don't you try to answer the questions I asked you in the Last post?
You keep making wild allegations, not acknoleging when I call you out to prove them.
You diden't really ask any question in your last post or answer any.

Abdullah is a rather interesting name. It means "slave to Allah". Despite the commentary by the Rambam on Islam I do NOT consider Allah to be G-d. G-d has many divine titles and a distinct ineffable name. As far as I can ascertain from the Torah and the entire Tanakh, none of them are Allah. A correct translation of the term "Allahu Akhbar" is "Allah is Greatest". Allah may have come to mean "G-d" or "the G-d" in modern Arabic, but it is derived from the name of a pagan rock idol. This is akin to the word gay in modern English. The term has become synonomous with homosexual, but its original and correct meaning is happy. I apply the same logic to Allah. It may be hard to stomach, but you've willfully submitted your soul to a black stone.
 
The most damning evidence is in your own scriptures. The Qur'an is a book literally devoid of any context and chronology. It is laughable to believe that a perfect being would inspire such an insane book. The Hadith collections, while having some semblance of context and chronolgy, are filled with hatred and intolerance for non-Muslims.

The Tanakh ("Tanach") is a rich inspiring book filled with an abundance of magnificent prophecies, some of which have come to being in our own time. The Qur'an is a lie. A fabricated distortion. The illiterate Muhammad plagiarized and bastardized stories from the Oral Torah that he purchased from the Jews. Those stories comprise a bulk of the "religious" aspect of Islam. For the most part it is a war manifesto.

The treaty you're referring to was a method of luring the Meccans into a false sense of peace. The late and unlamented Yasser Arafat, yimach shemo vizichro (may his name and memory be obliterated) utilized the same tactic of deception through "peace" treaties with Israel.

As far as news sources, I can use them to augment my argument, but the Islamic scriptures are sufficient enough to prove that Islam is Satanic.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Mishmaat on July 11, 2007, 03:04:03 AM
Jazak'Allah I did not know exactly what you belived.
I actually do have another question, Do you belive in the Angels? Do you belive in the Jinn? Do you belive in the day of Judgement?
It might sound like I'm trying to help you make Shahada but I'm not. I've never actually asked a Jew before. I'm not interested in converting mind you, but just curious.
Peace

This comment wasn't addressed to me, but I'll answer it if you don't mind Zvulun.

I believe that Angels are God's perfect messengers.

I don't believe in demons.

Of course there will be a day of judgement.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 03:05:11 AM
I told you you were woshiping a rock idol, abdulla. How much money have those arabs bilked you out of for peddling that pack of lies?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 03:07:20 AM
Jazak'Allah I did not know exactly what you belived.
I actually do have another question, Do you belive in the Angels? Do you belive in the Jinn? Do you belive in the day of Judgement?
It might sound like I'm trying to help you make Shahada but I'm not. I've never actually asked a Jew before. I'm not interested in converting mind you, but just curious.
Peace

This comment wasn't addressed to me, but I'll answer it if you don't mind Zvulun.

I believe that Angels are G-d's perfect messengers.

I don't believe in demons.

Of course there will be a day of judgement.

And when that day comes....you muslims are for it!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 11, 2007, 03:12:03 AM
Jazak'Allah I did not know exactly what you belived.
I actually do have another question, Do you belive in the Angels? Do you belive in the Jinn? Do you belive in the day of Judgement?
It might sound like I'm trying to help you make Shahada but I'm not. I've never actually asked a Jew before. I'm not interested in converting mind you, but just curious.
Peace

You say: “Jazak'Allah I did not know exactly what you belived.”

I knew that.

If I was you, Abdullah, before believing into any religion claiming that it is better version of the original religion, I would first look into the original one in order to understand all other ones claiming being based on the original faith.

Here, read it: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/jpstoc.html

I do believe in Angels.

I don’t believe in the Jinn, a spirit from pre-Islamic Arab mythology.

I believe in the “day” (time) of judgment.

Regarding Shahadah, I said earlier: there is One G-d, and Muhammad is not His Messenger.

I don’t have anything against him personally, but if he was a real prophet, why not. But he was not.

Again, read the Torah http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/jpstoc.html

Don’t forget, this is the original word from One G-d.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 11, 2007, 03:19:24 AM
Jazak'Allah, Do you belive in Angels in the Christian sense, can they Disobey God? I diden't ask if you belived in demons but Jinn, judgeing by you answer I see you don't.
Do Jews belive in al-Jenna(heaven, paradise) and Hell?
Is there anything in your books that says there can't be anymore prophets?
I have read that for you to consider a gentil to be "righeous" he cannot be an Idol worshipper, If this is true what do you call catholics?
Why do you deny Jesus('Isa)peace be upon him as a prophet and messanger of God?

I'm asking all this so I can be sure of what I know, I would like to hear it from a Jew.
Also Jazak'Allah for answering my previous questions.
Peace
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 11, 2007, 03:33:20 AM
I will answer only one:

You say: “Is there anything in your books that says there can't be anymore prophets?”

My books did not say that. But my books did not say that any of the forthcoming prophets will be a rapist and a pedophile who will accuse of the same books being corrupt either.

This is called desecration, and not prophesy.

For all other questions, spend a day reading Torah.

Peace. Patience. Flexibility. Wisdom.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 03:34:07 AM
While you are waiting for a Jew , abdulla.....here is a means for gentiles to practice Jusaism without becoming Jews and coping with 613 laws:


http://www.noachidechassid.com/news.php

Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Abdullah on July 11, 2007, 04:25:59 AM
again Jazak'Allah(even to newman)
I still don't understand your logic completly

1) Do you belive God is fair? If you do than how, according to your beliefs God kind of screwed over people like the Native Americans. They were fire-worshipers but you say he sent them no prophets?
It would be like if a parent punished a child for doing something he was never told not to do.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on July 11, 2007, 04:31:10 AM
Zvulun ben Moshe, you're doing a fabulous job of answering this mooozie beast's questions.

Your answers are concise and straightfoward enough that even this brainwashed Mohamheadan simpleton might comprehend them.

I just take issue with one comment you made regarding PedoMo.

You said: "I don’t have anything against him personally..."

Of course you couldn't have known the pedophile, mass murderer, rapist, terrorist, thief personally, but please don't say you don't have anything against him.

All righteous people should DESPISE Mohammed for the crimes against humanity that he personally committed, as well as for the crimes against humanity his followers are still perpetrating in his name today.

DEATH TO ISLAM !!!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 04:38:59 AM
again Jazak'Allah(even to newman)
I still don't understand your logic completly

1) Do you belive G-d is fair? If you do than how, according to your beliefs G-d kind of screwed over people like the Native Americans. They were fire-worshipers but you say he sent them no prophets?
It would be like if a parent punished a child for doing something he was never told not to do.

If you would read Jewish or noachide sites with an open mind you will discover that G_d sent the Jews to be a light unto the world and a nation of priests for everyone else. Unfortunately everyone insisted on trying to kill them and replacing their religion with a fake one of their own making. The christians have stopped doing that (thank G_d), but now you muslims are  killing them. The price muslims will pay for this will be horrific.

Take the Jew's advice, Abdulla. Study the original word of G_d before you study the false replacement made up by an arab warlord. It's your soul at stake...not mine. I don't care either way. I'm not a Jew and it's not my job to teach the pagans.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Mishmaat on July 11, 2007, 11:12:41 AM
Scripture concerning the "prophet" Muhammad, yimach shemo.

Deuteronomy 18:20-22:

"But the prophet, that shall speak a word presumptuously in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.' And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem hath not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him."
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 11, 2007, 11:25:16 AM
Zvulun ben Moshe, you're doing a fabulous job of answering this mooozie beast's questions.

Your answers are concise and straightfoward enough that even this brainwashed Mohamheadan simpleton might comprehend them.

I just take issue with one comment you made regarding PedoMo.

You said: "I don’t have anything against him personally..."

Of course you couldn't have known the pedophile, mass murderer, rapist, terrorist, thief personally, but please don't say you don't have anything against him.

All righteous people should DESPISE Mohammed for the crimes against humanity that he personally committed, as well as for the crimes against humanity his followers are still perpetrating in his name today.

DEATH TO ISLAM !!!

Muck,

I understand what you are saying, but…

Mohammed first claimed to be G-d’s messenger and only later he became all of that that you fairly listed above.

I meant I don’t have anything against him personally at the moment he claimed to be a prophet. At that time he was a camel shepherd, nothing more. I use this technique to show that I am being objective and fair in hearing him out, and not just dismissing him for no reason.

That is, I reject his claim of being a prophet not because he was a rapist, but because he was not a prophet.

But for the crimes he did, he should have been stoned to death.

Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 11:29:18 AM
Zvulun ben Moshe, you're doing a fabulous job of answering this mooozie beast's questions.

Your answers are concise and straightfoward enough that even this brainwashed Mohamheadan simpleton might comprehend them.

I just take issue with one comment you made regarding PedoMo.

You said: "I don’t have anything against him personally..."

Of course you couldn't have known the pedophile, mass murderer, rapist, terrorist, thief personally, but please don't say you don't have anything against him.

All righteous people should DESPISE Mohammed for the crimes against humanity that he personally committed, as well as for the crimes against humanity his followers are still perpetrating in his name today.

DEATH TO ISLAM !!!

Muck,

I understand what you are saying, but…

Mohammed first claimed to be G-d’s messenger and only later he became all of that that you fairly listed above.

I meant I don’t have anything against him personally at the moment he claimed to be a prophet. At that time he was a camel shepherd, nothing more. I use this technique to show that I am being objective and fair in hearing him out, and not just dismissing him for no reason.

That is, I reject his claim of being a prophet not because he was a rapist, but because he was not a prophet.

But for the crimes he did, he should have been stoned to death.



Zvulun, you did a good job with the muzzie kid. We'll keep our eye on him....I explained how it all works on JTF. His attitude may be different next time. I'd never bet my life on a muzzie changing camps, though.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 11, 2007, 11:34:34 AM
Thank you, guys. G-d bless you all!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 11:37:43 AM
Thank you, guys. G-d bless you all!
If you make him a noachide chasid you've done your light unto the nations duty. Also fulfilled prophesy......gentiles grabbing a corner of your garment and all that. :)
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 11, 2007, 12:15:57 PM
again Jazak'Allah(even to newman)
I still don't understand your logic completly

1) Do you belive G-d is fair? If you do than how, according to your beliefs G-d kind of screwed over people like the Native Americans. They were fire-worshipers but you say he sent them no prophets?
It would be like if a parent punished a child for doing something he was never told not to do.

G-d is fair, but fair doesn’t equal nice. Fair is nice or harsh, whichever you deserve.

G-d punished 6 million Jews during World War II. Now He is not only balancing, but He is also non-discriminating Judge.

Regarding your “It would be like if a parent punished a child for doing something he was never told not to do.”

That is not yet a reason to invent a new religion. What Mohammed should have done in order to worship One G-d, is to convert into Judaism and convince others to do that, and not force them.

Look at Khazars. They accepted Judaism without an official conversion, they simply started believing and following the laws of G-d.

I am not for proselytizing, but I am against isolationism.

If you want to believe in One G-d, just believe in Him. If you want to become more familiar with the history and philosophy, then open the Torah.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 11, 2007, 12:19:29 PM
Thank you, guys. G-d bless you all!
If you make him a noachide chasid you've done your light unto the nations duty. Also fulfilled prophesy......gentiles grabbing a corner of your garment and all that. :)

Newman, most Muslims already do many things that Mohammed stole from Judaism.

I honestly believe that Muslims will be more comfortable embracing the religion of  One G-d in its original form.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 12:22:22 PM
Thank you, guys. G-d bless you all!
If you make him a noachide chasid you've done your light unto the nations duty. Also fulfilled prophesy......gentiles grabbing a corner of your garment and all that. :)

Newman, most Muslims already do many things that Mohammed stole from Judaism.

I honestly believe that Muslims will be more comfortable embracing the religion of  One G-d in its original form.

The Sheva Mitzvot is the original form for gentiles isn't it? That what Jews are here to teach us isn't it?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 11, 2007, 12:57:13 PM
Yes, but (there is one but)….

The Seven Noahide Laws are the following:
• Prohibition of idolatry
• Prohibition of blasphemy
• Prohibition of murder
• Prohibition of theft
• Prohibition of illicit relations
• Prohibition of eating live meat
• Prohibition of failing to establish courts of justice

Mohammed forced the forefathers of the present Muslims to follow these laws, except for two:

1) “Don’t murder” law. Jihad clearly is in violation of this law.
2) “Don’t blaspheme” law. Claiming that G-d said that Jews corrupted the Torah (G-d forbid) is a serious violation of this law.

But, at the same time, Muslims do slightly more than the remaining laws:

1) They circumcise
2) They have dietary laws, called halal, which prohibits pork etc.
3) maybe some more

As you see, if Abdullah says I am against Jihad and I don’t believe in Mohammed, he will become more than Noahide.

Knowing Muslims, I can say that they need more laws to become and stay righteous.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 01:03:55 PM
What's in between a noachide chassid and a Jew apart from a Ger Toshav ? Ger Toshavs only have the seven laws too, they just make a formal pledge before a beit din. If muslims take on more than the seven and less than 613 , what would they be?
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 11, 2007, 01:16:43 PM
Newman, Ger Toshavs are supposed to do the following:

1) Reject idolatry
2) Follow the 7 Noachide laws
3) Follow all the 613 mitzvot, except for the prohibition of neveilos.

Muslims, if rejected Islam, would follow most of Ger Toshav laws.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 01:20:06 PM
Newman, Ger Toshavs are supposed to do the following:

1) Reject idolatry
2) Follow the 7 Noachide laws
3) Follow all the 613 mitzvot, except for the prohibition of neveilos.

Muslims, if rejected Islam, would follow most of Ger Toshav laws.


Even recieving an Aliyah at synagogue and wearing a prayer shawl? I thought those along with peyot etc were for Jews only.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 11, 2007, 01:27:18 PM
Newman, Ger Toshavs are supposed to do the following:

1) Reject idolatry
2) Follow the 7 Noachide laws
3) Follow all the 613 mitzvot, except for the prohibition of neveilos.

Muslims, if rejected Islam, would follow most of Ger Toshav laws.


Even recieving an Aliyah at synagogue and wearing a prayer shawl? I thought those along with peyot etc were for Jews only.

Officially Ger Toshav is not a Jew, but he can step forward and say I want to become one. For someone who follows most of the laws, which many Jews (reform for example) don't follow, becoming a Jew is a matter of declaration.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 01:45:37 PM
Newman, Ger Toshavs are supposed to do the following:

1) Reject idolatry
2) Follow the 7 Noachide laws
3) Follow all the 613 mitzvot, except for the prohibition of neveilos.

Muslims, if rejected Islam, would follow most of Ger Toshav laws.


Even recieving an Aliyah at synagogue and wearing a prayer shawl? I thought those along with peyot etc were for Jews only.

Officially Ger Toshav is not a Jew, but he can step forward and say I want to become one. For someone who follows most of the laws, which many Jews (reform for example) don't follow, becoming a Jew is a matter of declaration.

Thakyou Zvulun.

I'm Lucky there are still learned men. We gentiles would be in shtuk otherwise.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 11, 2007, 01:50:42 PM
Keep it up, brother!
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: newman on July 11, 2007, 01:52:32 PM
Keep it up, brother!
I try, Ben Yisroel, I try. ;)
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Shlomo on July 11, 2007, 08:29:45 PM
Theres nothing wrong with right-wing, but It is not a reliable source for news. Why don't you give the FULL speach if your so sure of it.

How would there be nothing wrong with it if you think it's not reliable? That doesn't even make sense.

I tell you what... why don't YOU give the full speech. I'd love to see this. Tell me... how am I wrong? How did I take that out of context and what is the REAL context of that hate speech?

Quote
You talk about the treaty of Hudaibiya. You claim it was violated by the Muslims when it was IN FACT violated by the Meccans. If you want to argue that then back it up.

And while you're at it, why don't you IN FACT prove it was the Meccans. You can't? I wonder why?

Muslims were authorized by another "revelation" to break treaties (particularly with the Jews) when there was an advantage in doing so (Check out 8:58).

Quote
I also don't get why your bringing up so much from the past- long before the speech I was talking about. Your being far to general by saying that since a Muslim got his picture with Hittler were all nazis.

#1) You said the muslims didn't want to exterminate the Jews. I gave some pretty solid examples.

#2) "a Muslim"... ummm... you mean the Mufti? I didn't think he was just some random muslim guy. Nice try. This random "Muslim" is capable of issuing fataawa under islamic law. This title of Grand Mufti refers to the highest official of islamic religious law. Don't tell me that his hanging out with hitler was nothing but a random thing by just some random "Muslim". No, he met with adolf hitler, heinrich himmler, joachim von ribbentrop and other nazi leaders because he was trying to extend the nazi's program to the arab world... and he was pretty vocal about it. He didn't hide his intention. He sent hitler 15 drafts of declarations in the early 1940s.

Quote
Why don't you try to answer the questions I asked you in the Last post?
You keep making wild allegations, not acknoleging when I call you out to prove them.
You diden't really ask any question in your last post or answer any.

Jeez... you can't spell worth anything. You read books or comics?

I tell you what... we'll take turns. You answer my question above about the full speech or the treaty of Hudaibiya (your choice) and I'll answer one of your questions. I want you to really answer it... not just throw out your opinion. I want some facts like I provided above.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: cosmokramer on July 11, 2007, 09:30:51 PM
I have a question abdullah, you have 66 Moslem countries and the Jews cant have one? Why is that? Please tell me I want to know.
Title: Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on July 11, 2007, 11:55:06 PM
Yacov,

It says "Prohibition of failing to establish", which means you have to establish. It is a double negative = positive. I know it sounds weird, but this is the official forumlation of this Noahide law.