JTF.ORG Forum
Torah and Jewish Idea => Torah and Jewish Idea => Topic started by: ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ on December 18, 2008, 01:35:38 PM
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I'm a Hindu by birth, but i want to learn about the Torah,Tanach .. can some one please tell me which book should i look for to start with? Translation by which author.. and so on..
Thank You.
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I'm a Hindu by birth, but i want to learn about the Torah,Tanach .. can some one please tell me which book should i look for to start with? Translation by which author.. and so on..
Thank You.
well, whatever religion people follow is their business, we don't proselytize. (jews sikhs and hindus are similar there)
thing is though, in addition to that, there is an issue teaching torah to non-jews.. And furthermore, teaching to one that is an idolator..(some or all might consider hinduism idolatry)
You can look into the noachide laws yourself. Here are two books
http://www.amazon.com/Rainbow-Covenant-Torah-Seven-Universal/dp/0971938822
The Rainbow Covenant: Torah and the Seven Universal Laws
http://www.amazon.com/Path-Righteous-Gentile-Introduction-Children/dp/087306433X/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b
The Path of the Righteous Gentile: An Introduction to the Seven Laws of the Children of Noah (Hardcover)
by Chaim Clorfene (Author), Yaakov Rogalsky (Author)
Jewish belief is in the Torah, which says that jews should follow jewish law, and gentiles should follow the 7 noachide laws. Laws which we believe were given to Adam and Noah.
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it would be difficult for me to get these books in India. I would prefer some thing in ebook format, sorry i forgot to mention this.
meanwhile i will look into noachide laws. btw it no problem, like many hindus i can meditate without concentrating on idols. Idols are just supplement or beautification factor for temples.
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If you want to dive into deep Jewish philosophy- "Guide to the perplexed" By Maimonides (Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon).
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If you want to dive into deep Jewish philosophy- "Guide to the perplexed" By Maimonides (Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon).
that is completely and ridiculously inappropriate
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it would be difficult for me to get these books in India. I would prefer some thing in ebook format, sorry i forgot to mention this.
meanwhile i will look into noachide laws. btw it no problem, like many hindus i can meditate without concentrating on idols. Idols are just supplement or beautification factor for temples.
you could google, though many websites are crazy.
and good ones would suggest one or both of those books anyway.
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If you want to dive into deep Jewish philosophy- "Guide to the perplexed" By Maimonides (Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon).
I wanted to buy it too, but the price was over 150 $ in the German translation.
I will wait until I can get it used cheaper.
Ulli
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If you want to dive into deep Jewish philosophy- "Guide to the perplexed" By Maimonides (Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon).
that is completely and ridiculously inappropriate
Like using a canon to kill a housefly ?
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If you want to dive into deep Jewish philosophy- "Guide to the perplexed" By Maimonides (Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon).
I wanted to buy it too, but the price was over 150 $ in the German translation.
I will wait until I can get it used cheaper.
Ulli
Its not needed at all. Not recommended either, for Jews or for gentiles. It's only for those who have been tainted by philopophy etc.
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If you want to dive into deep Jewish philosophy- "Guide to the perplexed" By Maimonides (Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon).
I wanted to buy it too, but the price was over 150 $ in the German translation.
I will wait until I can get it used cheaper.
Ulli
There are free English translations on the Internet (may be there is a German translation too).
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Hindu Zionist,
Please visit the website http://www.aish.com . It is an incredible site which contains much Jewish wisdom and insight. I am a supporter of the Aish HaTorah Yeshiva which teaches many thousands of students all around the world.
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Hindu Zionist,
Please visit the website http://www.aish.com . It is an incredible site which contains much Jewish wisdom and insight. I am a supporter of the Aish HaTorah Yeshiva which teaches many thousands of students all around the world.
AISH IS FOR JEWS
IT'S FOR JEWS. THEY TEACH THOUSANDS OF **JEWISH STUDENTS**
I know what has influenced you. You linked to a Rabbi lazer brody video and mention him alot. I reckon you listen to him alot.. But from the video I saw, it seems perhaps you have completely misunderstood him.
He talked there about preaching outwards about emunah. Because it is universal. He is not talking generally about teaching Torah to gentiles.
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Hindu Zionist,
Please visit the website http://www.aish.com . It is an incredible site which contains much Jewish wisdom and insight. I am a supporter of the Aish HaTorah Yeshiva which teaches many thousands of students all around the world.
AISH IS FOR JEWS
IT'S FOR JEWS. THEY TEACH THOUSANDS OF **JEWISH STUDENTS**
I know what has influenced you. You linked to a Rabbi lazer brody video and mention him alot. I reckon you listen to him alot.. But from the video I saw, it seems perhaps you have completely misunderstood him.
He talked there about preaching outwards about emunah. Because it is universal. He is not talking generally about teaching Torah to gentiles.
I am not teaching to gentiles. I too watched that video last night and I do not misunderstand him. I do believe that the whole world will come to know Hashem. If there are souls who are seeking Hashem there is no reason why we should not allow them to pursue it. This doesnt take away from the Jewish mission which is to bring Hashem into the world and to take care of our people first. I do take care of Jewish causes first, and then I give to non-Jewish causes.
You heard Rabbi Brody say that a bunch of American Indians have bought copies of the "Garden of Emuna" which is a book about Torah and Jewish faith. I dont want to argue with you about this again. Please realize that my only point in pointing people towards Torah if they are interested is because I believe {and have heard Rabbis explain} that during the messianic age evil will be banished and all humanity will live in peace, not just the Jewish nation.
Please show me a law or halacha I am violating if I am doing so. If I am wrong I will apologize {as you know I have in the past}. I have read about the laws about not teaching Torah to a non-Jew. I don't believe that is what I am doing when I explain a Torah concept. I will consult with my Rabbi to determine if I am doing anything wrong.
PS: Should I have simply suggested that he investigate the Noachide covenant?
http://lazerbrody.typepad.com/lazer_beams/2006/08/the_garden_of_e.html
Surprise! You're looking at Rav Shalom Arush's and my most well-guarded secret, The Garden of Emuna, that will make its worldwide debut G-d willing in three-weeks at the book stands in Uman. It's only befitting the the first copies become available to the public by Rebbe Nachman's gravesite, since the entire book is a contemporary illumination of Rebbe Nachman's teachings.
Rav Shalom Arush has a unique gift of bringing Rebbe Nachman of Breslev's teachings to this generation's eye level. Yours truly has been granted the privilege of adapting and translating Rav Shalom's lectures and writings for the English-speaking public, as you've already seen and heard in our CDs.
The original Hebrew forerunner of The Garden of Emuna - B'Gan Ha'Emuna - has taken Israel by storm. Since it's debut a year ago, it has sold over 25,000 copies in Israel. Proportionately to America, that's like a multi-million-copy bestseller.
The Garden of Emuna is a practical guide to life. It's impossible to read it without feeling happier. Privately, I've been using advice from this book to help people for quite a while. Once you get your hands on this book, you won't know how you ever lived without it. No matter what your personal problem is, this book will solve it for you, G-d willing.
With Hashem's loving grace, The Garden of Emuna will be available directly online from here at the Beams after Rosh Hashanna.
Uman, G-d willing, will be a thrill this year. We're also eagerly awaiting Avraham Abutboul's new CD.
Hashem wants us to boogey - with Emuna, that's exactly what we're gonna do. You can't chase away darkness with a stick, but a little light illuminates the blackest night - don't ever forget that. I want you to remember one other thing - Hashem is crazy about you - Lazer's guarantee! Than in itself is a reason for you to get up out of your chair this very minute and to start dancing.
:dance:
Watch Rabbi Brody talk about themes of Garden of Emuna here:
http://lazerbrody.typepad.com/lazer_beams/video_torah_english/
http://lazerbrody.typepad.com/lazer_beams/2008/11/garden-of-emuna-shiur-part-1.html
http://lazerbrody.typepad.com/lazer_beams/2008/11/garden-of-emuna-shiur-part-2.html
Watch Part 2 @ about 16:00-18:00 where he talks about spreading Hashem amongst all peoples of the world...
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Teaching is helping to learn..
You say "I am not teaching to gentiles", and then you point them to a site that teaches it.
I suspect you are aware it is wrong, or why deny teaching it to them?
There are issues involved.. If they show interest, then referring them to the noachide laws is a great idea.
PS: Should I have simply suggested that he investigate the Noachide covenant?
yes, that's the thing to do.
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Teaching is helping to learn..
You say "I am not teaching to gentiles", and then you point them to a site that teaches it.
I suspect you are aware it is wrong, or why deny teaching it to them?
There are issues involved.. If they show interest, then referring them to the noachide laws is a great idea.
PS: Should I have simply suggested that he investigate the Noachide covenant?
yes, that's the thing to do.
Honestly I dont think I am violating any Jewish law but I do respect your opinion {despite our many issues}. I will research it because I am concerned when any Jew is upset about what I explain according to my understanding. I do seek to do good and follow the law so if I am doing wrong I will attempt to cease. But at this time I still do not feel as if I am really going about trying to make anyone convert to Judaism. But our books and our wisdom is available to those who are interested.
I am sorry if you think I am doing something wrong.
PS: I just tried a google search for 'Jewish Wisdom' and the Aish site came up as the second highest search result after www.jewish-wisdom.com .
PPS: I did find a Ask the Rabbi question which supports your position : http://www.yeshiva.org.il/ask/eng/?id=1206
But this Rabbi is more lenient it seems: http://www.yoatzot.org/question.php?id=1270
Teaching a non-Jew
I wanted to tell my non-Jewish sister some basic ideas of taharat ha mishpachah. A Rav told me not to do so, as we must not teach Torah to non-Jews. But if she would use the Internet, she could learn everything by herself.
If teaching detailed laws in the internet is allowed, why may I not teach only basic ideas personally?
Dear questioner,
Thank you for your question.
The custom is that only detailed and formal instruction is prohibited when teaching a non-Jew. You may relay some general and broad concepts that are illuminating regarding Judaism's attitude to the couple relationship. It is true that she may turn to the internet and learn some details on site, but that is her decision and one that cannot be controlled.
{I just realized this question is not answered by a Rav, instead by Yoetzet}
I guess I will have to ask my Rabbi what his opinion is and trust in his opinion.
I am listening to this Shuir entitled 'Teaching Torah to Non-Jews' @ http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/722695/Rabbi_Hanan_Balk/Teaching_Torah_to_Non-Jews
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Thank You muman, i will go through the links, i read it randomly now and it is very interesting. Isnt it a coincidence that i would be learning about Jewish/Judaism concepts during the week of Hanukkah.
being a hindu i know almost all concepts of the first dharmic religion in the world, and thus i want to very much learn about the first Abrahamic religion of the world. In pursuit of knowing the supreme truth. I hope with the knowledge you people are sharing with me, i have nothing to lose but only to gain and get closer to God.
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Teaching is helping to learn..
You say "I am not teaching to gentiles", and then you point them to a site that teaches it.
I suspect you are aware it is wrong, or why deny teaching it to them?
There are issues involved.. If they show interest, then referring them to the noachide laws is a great idea.
PS: Should I have simply suggested that he investigate the Noachide covenant?
yes, that's the thing to do.
Honestly I dont think I am violating any Jewish law but I do respect your opinion {despite our many issues}. I will research it because I am concerned when any Jew is upset about what I explain according to my understanding. I do seek to do good and follow the law so if I am doing wrong I will attempt to cease. But at this time I still do not feel as if I am really going about trying to make anyone convert to Judaism. But our books and our wisdom is available to those who are interested.
I am sorry if you think I am doing something wrong.
PS: I just tried a google search for 'Jewish Wisdom' and the Aish site came up as the second highest search result after www.jewish-wisdom.com .
Muman,
Look through Tractate Sanhedrin 55A-65A , a bit before and a bit after if you want too. It discusses these things .. I have studied it around 6 years ago, but really the fact against teaching torah to gentiles is very well known..
It talks for example of differing opinions, one saying they can't study it at all, one saying that they can but only the portion related to the 7 laws. Certainly not generally teaching torah like pointing them to Aish. There are big restrictions. And note that that tractate is talking about them studying it! So even for them to study it is forbidden to a noachide! that's before you've even taught it! So don't cause them to sin.
and in particular, we are not allowed to teach torah to idolators. perhaps not even any torah at all to them is allowed
It should be well known to you. When you saw that video of rabbi brody (whose mentor rabbi is rabbi arush) he was responding to criticism that he teaches torah to gentiles.. He said he teaches Emunah, which is universal, since belief in G-d is one of the noachide laws. That was his defence. Doing so is still controversial, but even he there is saying he wouldn't generally teach torah to gentiles.
And I have already mentioned to you over and over again the other problems with doing so. Related to them mixing their beliefs with the Torah.
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aish.com is one of the best also look at Chabad.org
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q_q_,
I grant that you have good points here. But there are some opinions which allow teaching of Written Torah to non-Jews. The shuir I am listening to taught that since Hashem gave Torah to all the nations and only the Jews accepted it, therefore it must not be wrong to teach the written Torah to non-Jews.
I understand the concern about others mistaking someone who is not a Jew who is studying Torah for a real Jew and come to unfounded beliefs due to misunderstanding. This is a valid concern and I hope that I have not lead anyone astray in this manner.
I do know a number of converts to Orthodox Judaism and they are very observant and I am impressed at their level of Kashrut and Shabbat observance. I will surely ask my Rabbi more about this but he is generally lenient in these matters. I will also read the tractate you referred me.
Thank you and I hope to be more careful about what I discuss. One last defense of my position though... I learned from this shuir that if the intended audience is Jews in a 'Jewish forum' and I am discussing Torah and non-Jews should also be listening I am not transgressing this prohibition.
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Interesting... Listen to this shuir at 29:00 and you will hear Rambams opinion that it is OK to teach Torah to Christians but not to Muslims.
http://download.yutorah.org/2008/1067/722695/Teaching%20Torah%20to%20Non%2DJews.MP3
This is very interesting stuff...
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there are opinions of varying strictness, and to be safe one should err on the side of strictness. It isn't hard to keep to the stricter opinions here! The various opinions are in the gemara. It's not just any old rabbi deciding to be stricter..
Aish for example, certainly are careful only to target jews. hence for example in their counter-missionary material, they stress it is counter-missionary. And obviously their trips are only for jews.
The thing about the messianic age is spoken of in jeremiah around ch30 and is a covenant G-d makes with people in their hearts. It's miraculous. Rather like rabbi brody described. And obviously if it's against halacha to teach torah to gentiles, you don't do it. That's a general rule not teaching it to them.. There are restrictions and as you have seen, differing opinions in the gemara about how tight the restrictions are.
I think it's easy to be strict with this one. Certainly stricter than you have been! Aish certainly would be - and you referred a gentile there.
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there are opinions of varying strictness, and to be safe one should err on the side of strictness. It isn't hard to keep to the stricter opinions here! The various opinions are in the gemara. It's not just any old rabbi deciding to be stricter..
Aish for example, certainly are careful only to target jews. hence for example in their counter-missionary material, they stress it is counter-missionary. And obviously their trips are only for jews.
The thing about the messianic age is spoken of in jeremiah around ch30 and is a covenant G-d makes with people in their hearts. It's miraculous. Rather like rabbi brody described. And obviously if it's against halacha to teach torah to gentiles, you don't do it. That's a general rule not teaching it to them.. There are restrictions and as you have seen, differing opinions in the gemara about how tight the restrictions are.
I think it's easy to be strict with this one. Certainly stricter than you have been! Aish certainly would be - and you referred a gentile there.
I am hearing you...
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Interesting... Listen to this shuir at 29:00 and you will hear Rambams opinion that it is OK to teach Torah to Christians but not to Muslims.
http://download.yutorah.org/2008/1067/722695/Teaching%20Torah%20to%20Non%2DJews.MP3
This is very interesting stuff...
must be a good shiur.
yes, this has been mentioned in a previous thread, it was mentioned by Lisa.
RAMBAM wrote that in a letter.
It brings up the question.. How can the RAMBAM be so lenient here when in his earlier work the mishneh torah, he said christianity is idolatry. We know it's forbidden to teach torah to idolators.. One answer is that the RAMBAM changed his mind about christianity.
Hindu Zionist , is a hindu.. And I'm sure that most or all would consider hinduism to be idolatry.
The RAMBAM's opinion there is very strange.. hard to source in the talmud. Very controversial.
And the reason why the RAMBAM (taking a VERY lenient opinion) made the allowance for christianity and not islam, was that christians believe the bible.
Muslims don't.. And of course hindus don't either.
(muslims nowadays and in RAMBAM's time made the claim that the bible was corrupted.. so maybe that's why he said specifically not teaching muslims)
I should add and this is VERY important.
We know in our times from experience that teaching torah to christians is a very bad idea. They mix it in with their beliefs.. and we get messianic christianity. They go to sites made eg by conservative "rabbis" and learn how to lein and all sorts of things. Their pastors call themselves rabbis, and they draw jews in, it's a massive problem.
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<snip>
I am hearing you...
It's about bloody time.. I've told you almost a dozen times in previous threads.
The difference here is that this time you took notice, asked for a source, looked around, and found a YU shiur..
Why is that? Did you have an extra cup of coffee?
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What if Hindu Zionist were to read the book "Judaism For Dummies?"
http://www.amazon.com/Judaism-Dummies-Ted-Falcon/dp/0764552996
There's also "The Complete Idiot's Guide To Judaism."
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Understanding-Judaism/dp/159257131X/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_k2a_3_txt/179-1484663-3532726?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-2&pf_rd_r=10VP48SS3FWE3Z66Q01M&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=304485601&pf_rd_i=0764552996
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<snip>
I am hearing you...
It's about bloody time.. I've told you almost a dozen times in previous threads.
The difference here is that this time you took notice, asked for a source, looked around, and found a YU shiur..
Why is that? Did you have an extra cup of coffee?
q_q_,
Why is it? It is because I am always looking for the truth. Just because I have investigated this issue doesn't mean I agree with you fully in your understanding. I just understand that there are things which are permitted and things which are not. I will be more careful in what I explain.
In a forum where the audience is expected to be mostly Jews then I am permitted to delve into deeper sources than just the Chumash. When the audience is mostly non-Jewish then I should only talk about Pshat which is the simple understanding of the material. I believe I understand this now. For that I thank you.
But I hope you don't use this against me in any way. You do receive some 'reward' for rebuking me and getting me to learn. I do respect a teacher but I also have problems with the way you come across to me sometimes. For instance your comment "Did you have an extra cup of coffee". I am not your adversary and sometimes I feel like you want to continue an adversarial relationship with me.
Thank you,
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Watch the video " Amazing New Movie IN ENGLISH" from- http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/ (second to last video). And qq it is allowed.
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Also -HZ- maybe you would like to take a look at this channel-
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=F47B1048EA6EFF6B
Playlist: Obligations of the Nations
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Watch the video " Amazing New Movie IN ENGLISH" from- http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/ (second to last video). And qq it is allowed.
It is not teaching Torah to gentiles..
That is proselytizing - probably not halachically forbidden, jews did it 2000 years ago, and we got christianity for our trouble(and alot of dead jews because of it. It took christians 2000 years to become domesticated). And that's how we got islam too. (so maybe all the damage has been done already, there isn't much chance we'll be getting another one.. though maybe it was punishment proselytizing . On the plus side we may get complete noachides but remember christianity and islam )
Anyhow..Rabbi Mizrachi is not proselytizing either. You said yourself that the christian he debated was a missionary knocking on doors e.t.c.
That video you linked to there is FOR JEWS. (to tell jews that judaism is true and other religions are wrong)
If you are showing that to gentiles..
That is telling christians and gentiles of other religions that there religion is wrong.. That is bashing christianity and islam and the rest..
That is not what JTF is about.. And infact it's not what any organisation that touches other rleigions is about.
You shouldn't bash them in bad times because it makes things more dangerous.
And you shouldn't bash them in good times because you are rewarding good with bad..
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qq- no. This particular person (Hindu Zionist) is asking to learn about Judaism. And where to start.
If you have the time look at this short clip bringing sources - About Jews incouraging the nations to keep the 7 laws (also about NOT discouraging converts, teaching those who ask and want to get closer to G-d.) - Material mainly from the Rambam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5-g2V2MgxU
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qq- no. This particular person (Hindu Zionist) is asking to learn about Judaism.
If you have the time look at this short clip bringing sources - About Jews incouraging the nations to keep the 7 laws (also about NOT discouraging converts, teaching those who ask and want to get closer to G-d.) - Material mainly from the Rambam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5-g2V2MgxU
people like saying ' q_q_: "no" ' because it looks good. As if you've completely refuted the great q_q_.
Actually,
I was referring to the clip you posted before , the rabbi mizrachi video you posted. That was deleted.
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It's still up and was not deleted. And I know you were referring to the Rav Mizrachi Shlita video. And the point of the last video I posted (the short one) is a video of a Jew (a convert by the way) explaining from the Rambam about teaching non-Jews Toroh if they want to get closer to G-d and expecially ask for it. (Also as a side note about teaching 7 Mitzvot Bnai Noach. - The point of me posting it is for you to see that the earlier video I posted is okay and not only that but good to show even a non-Jew (+ the video is completly about general belief in G-d, and after requested (to learn about Judaism)it was provided).
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It's still up and was not deleted. And I know you were referring to the Rav Mizrachi Shlita video. And the point of the last video I posted (the short one) is a video of a Jew (a convert by the way) explaining from the Rambam about teaching non-Jews Toroh if they want to get closer to G-d and expecially ask for it. (Also as a side note about teaching 7 Mitzvot Bnai Noach. - The point of me posting it is for you to see that the earlier video I posted is okay and not only that but good to show even a non-Jew (+ the video is completly about general belief in G-d, and after requested (to learn about Judaism)it was provided).
I see it's there now.. So it's possible it was put back, along with your post, and it's possible I was seeing things, or not seeing things.
I don't think that a non-jew that calls himself a christian or hindu or muslim or whatever.. Clearly is. And that is very different to a non-jew that has given up non-torah doctrines and thus truly seeks Torah.
Every non-jew nowadays wants to know about all sorts of religions. This is the multicultural society we live in today. It's not that they are truly "seeking torah". a)they have thier religion b)they aren't seeking it because they believe in it.. it's not really seeking it. Sure, point thenm to the noachide laws. I did write some reasons there not to bash their religions.. That rabbi mizrachi video was for a jewish audience, and suitable for truly noachide audience too).
I will look at that new video you posted
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qq- no. This particular person (Hindu Zionist) is asking to learn about Judaism. And where to start.
If you have the time look at this short clip bringing sources - About Jews incouraging the nations to keep the 7 laws (also about NOT discouraging converts, teaching those who ask and want to get closer to G-d.) - Material mainly from the Rambam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5-g2V2MgxU
thank you for the links to wonderful videos, i will surely look into it.
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What if Hindu Zionist were to read the book "Judaism For Dummies?"
http://www.amazon.com/Judaism-Dummies-Ted-Falcon/dp/0764552996
There's also "The Complete Idiot's Guide To Judaism."
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Understanding-Judaism/dp/159257131X/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_k2a_3_txt/179-1484663-3532726?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-2&pf_rd_r=10VP48SS3FWE3Z66Q01M&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=304485601&pf_rd_i=0764552996
(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/613/anintrotojudaismfke8sy3.jpg)
i'm got this book off the shelf... if i'm not able to understand any concept,i would ask the questions here. q_q i hope you dont mind.
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What if Hindu Zionist were to read the book "Judaism For Dummies?"
http://www.amazon.com/Judaism-Dummies-Ted-Falcon/dp/0764552996
There's also "The Complete Idiot's Guide To Judaism."
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Understanding-Judaism/dp/159257131X/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_k2a_3_txt/179-1484663-3532726?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-2&pf_rd_r=10VP48SS3FWE3Z66Q01M&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=304485601&pf_rd_i=0764552996
i'm got this book off the shelf... if i'm not able to understand any concept,i would ask the questions here. q_q i hope you dont mind.
I would be suspicious of a book about judaism by "Nicholas"!! How about a book by Santa Claus.. ;-)
Nicholas is a very christian name . Santa Claus, also known as Saint Nicholas
Having no book is better than having an inaccurate one. There are one or two jews called paul peter or nicholas, but they don't usually write books on judaism, not one that is likely to be much good anyway.
Lisa is quite sensible, and certainly is never crazy.
The books Lisa recommended are good ones. I have also read that the second one is good ("The Complete Idiot's Guide To Judaism." by Rabbi Benjamin Blech)
The problem isn't really anything you are doing, it's that some people here are referring you to things that are inappropriate(for reasons mentioned). Things that are intended for jews..
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Lisa is quite sensible, and certainly is never crazy.
Dude, you should really tune up your compliment scale, I mean, seriously.... :o
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I would say just to start with reading the Tanach.
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Lisa is quite sensible, and certainly is never crazy.
Dude, you should really tune up your compliment scale, I mean, seriously.... :o
I don't compliment people. It was more a statement about others here(including you), that you don't reach that criteria(on this subject).
I should point out though, your suggestion to him was so crazy , it was -almost- too crazy to be dangerous. And at least in your case, you don't normally go around giving advice to people on this subject, and you don't have any particularly strange qualities as others do, so you don't turn out to be a repeat offender.
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Lisa is quite sensible, and certainly is never crazy.
Dude, you should really tune up your compliment scale, I mean, seriously.... :o
I don't compliment people. It was more a statement about others here(including you), that you don't reach that criteria(on this subject).
I should point out though, your suggestion to him was so crazy , it was -almost- too crazy to be dangerous. And at least in your case, you don't normally go around giving advice to people on this subject, and you don't have any particularly strange qualities as others do, so you don't turn out to be a repeat offender.
Yes q_q_ is the judge and jury of all JTF members. His ego is beyond calculation...
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Lisa is quite sensible, and certainly is never crazy.
Dude, you should really tune up your compliment scale, I mean, seriously.... :o
I don't compliment people. It was more a statement about others here(including you), that you don't reach that criteria(on this subject).
I should point out though, your suggestion to him was so crazy , it was -almost- too crazy to be dangerous. And at least in your case, you don't normally go around giving advice to people on this subject, and you don't have any particularly strange qualities as others do, so you don't turn out to be a repeat offender.
Yes q_q_ is the judge and jury of all JTF members. His ego is beyond calculation...
beyond your calculations perhaps.
talking of ego though
"muman613 - MUMAN LIVES! 'MORE THAN HUMAN'"
!!!
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What if Hindu Zionist were to read the book "Judaism For Dummies?"
http://www.amazon.com/Judaism-Dummies-Ted-Falcon/dp/0764552996
There's also "The Complete Idiot's Guide To Judaism."
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Understanding-Judaism/dp/159257131X/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_k2a_3_txt/179-1484663-3532726?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-2&pf_rd_r=10VP48SS3FWE3Z66Q01M&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=304485601&pf_rd_i=0764552996
i'm got this book off the shelf... if i'm not able to understand any concept,i would ask the questions here. q_q i hope you dont mind.
I would be suspicious of a book about judaism by "Nicholas"!! How about a book by Santa Claus.. ;-)
Nicholas is a very christian name . Santa Claus, also known as Saint Nicholas
Having no book is better than having an inaccurate one. There are one or two jews called paul peter or nicholas, but they don't usually write books on judaism, not one that is likely to be much good anyway.
Lisa is quite sensible, and certainly is never crazy.
The books Lisa recommended are good ones. I have also read that the second one is good ("The Complete Idiot's Guide To Judaism." by Rabbi Benjamin Blech)
The problem isn't really anything you are doing, it's that some people here are referring you to things that are inappropriate(for reasons mentioned). Things that are intended for jews..
hmm Interesting about that Nicholas thing. I will be careful with this book. and yes i think i should buy those book Lisa mentioned.
q_q, i have a feeling that the holy Jewish books are for whole humanity and not just for jews to refer. Also i do not get offended if there is written anything about other religions being false and Judaism being the only True one. Also i do not mind if there is written anything against idolators. Because, Hinduism never mentions it self to be a true religion, it asks us to try to get knowledge to know the truth. secondly, It seems we are idolators but we are not.The biggest idolators are muslims. They kiss and touch the kabba stone. We do not touch or kiss any of our idols. Idols are like beautification factor for our temples. Just like we have statues of patriotic leaders in our countries and we like to pay them respects occasionally on their death or birth anniversary.. Infact if you want more information i can show how Hindus themself destroy idols every year. Only if any one wishes to know about this i will post.As i do not wish to mention anything about Hindusim on a Jewish forum unless anyone wishes to know.
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<snip>
hmm Interesting about that Nicholas thing. I will be careful with this book. and yes i think i should buy those book Lisa mentioned.
q_q, i have a feeling that the holy Jewish books are for whole humanity and not just for jews to refer. Also i do not get offended if there is written anything about other religions being false and Judaism being the only True one. Also i do not mind if there is written anything against idolators. Because, Hinduism never mentions it self to be a true religion, it asks us to try to get knowledge to know the truth. secondly, It seems we are idolators but we are not.The biggest idolators are muslims. They kiss and touch the kabba stone. We do not touch or kiss any of our idols. Idols are like beautification factor for our temples. Just like we have statues of patriotic leaders in our countries and we like to pay them respects occasionally on their death or birth anniversary.. Infact if you want more information i can show how Hindus themself destroy idols every year. Only if any one wishes to know about this i will post.As i do not wish to mention anything about Hindusim on a Jewish forum unless anyone wishes to know.
According to jewish beliefs, non-jews are obliged to follow the 7 noachide laws. Judaism was given to the jewish people and not the entire world. And our holy books are our inheritance and not that of other peoples.
According to one's personal preferences, one may feel that all books are for the whole world But judaism doesn't work like that., it has a legal system that can't be compromized by one's own personal philosophy.
And there are other practical reasons why it's not very good when people of other religions read jewish holy books. They read their non-jewish beliefs into them, and pervert them. This is what christian missionaries do, and this is what muslims do. Now, it's true that hindus would probably not try to convert jews, but it's still not good.
Infact, jews should be aware, that there are left wing jews that go to places like india looking for enlightenment, most of them think they know judaism(thanks to reform), but they don't, and they may be drawn to a hinduism with a few jewish symbols, and you may end up with a kind of "jews for [insert hindu god here]". "Messianic congregations"(christianity with jewish symbols), are helped and even inspired, by jews that go teaching judaism to christians. They don't all target jews, but some branches do, and they would attract some jews.
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<snip>
hmm Interesting about that Nicholas thing. I will be careful with this book. and yes i think i should buy those book Lisa mentioned.
q_q, i have a feeling that the holy Jewish books are for whole humanity and not just for jews to refer. Also i do not get offended if there is written anything about other religions being false and Judaism being the only True one. Also i do not mind if there is written anything against idolators. Because, Hinduism never mentions it self to be a true religion, it asks us to try to get knowledge to know the truth. secondly, It seems we are idolators but we are not.The biggest idolators are muslims. They kiss and touch the kabba stone. We do not touch or kiss any of our idols. Idols are like beautification factor for our temples. Just like we have statues of patriotic leaders in our countries and we like to pay them respects occasionally on their death or birth anniversary.. Infact if you want more information i can show how Hindus themself destroy idols every year. Only if any one wishes to know about this i will post.As i do not wish to mention anything about Hindusim on a Jewish forum unless anyone wishes to know.
According to jewish beliefs, non-jews are obliged to follow the 7 noachide laws. Judaism was given to the jewish people and not the entire world. And our holy books are our inheritance and not that of other peoples.
According to one's personal preferences, one may feel that all books are for the whole world But judaism doesn't work like that., it has a legal system that can't be compromized by one's own personal philosophy.
And there are other practical reasons why it's not very good when people of other religions read jewish holy books. They read their non-jewish beliefs into them, and pervert them. This is what christian missionaries do, and this is what muslims do. Now, it's true that hindus would probably not try to convert jews, but it's still not good.
Infact, jews should be aware, that there are left wing jews that go to places like india looking for enlightenment, most of them think they know judaism(thanks to reform), but they don't, and they may be drawn to a hinduism with a few jewish symbols, and you may end up with a kind of "jews for [insert hindu G-d here]". "Messianic congregations"(christianity with jewish symbols), are helped and even inspired, by jews that go teaching judaism to christians. They don't all target jews, but some branches do, and they would attract some jews.
sounds logical, although q_q dont you think that because Judaism isnt much open to non-Jew today the population has gone down? Cause i think if it were open to everyone then many non-Jews would have taken to Judaism. This is actually the problem with Hinduism too, there is no missionizing.
And yes,There should be no interference between two religions. And i do accept your thoughts about this. That we might some how corrupt the purity of the Holy Book by our own principles.
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Hindu Zionist,
The only Jewish way to be able to study Judaism is to ask a Rabbi to convert you. In our faith one must be taught authentic Torah from a Rabbi who has studied a tradition and texts which have been handed down from generation to generation. This is called Mesorah in hebrew.
To study on your own will not give you an authentic understanding of our 'religion'. Judaism is more than just a religion, it is a complete system of thinking and understanding our relationship to the universe. Sure you can pick up a concept here or there but without a holistic understanding you are really just shooting in the dark.
I originally suggested some websites which are intended for Jewish audiences. You can read any book which talks about the Jewish people but we really should not 'teach' you our tradition because as q_q_ has said, it was given to us because we chose to keep it.
If your heart is truly one seeking truth I am sure you will continue to seek understanding. Everyone who looks for the absolute universal truth always finds resistance yet keeps asking questions. I hope you will find what you are looking for.
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<snip>
sounds logical, although q_q dont you think that because Judaism isnt much open to non-Jew today the population has gone down? Cause i think if it were open to everyone then many non-Jews would have taken to Judaism. This is actually the problem with Hinduism too, there is no missionizing.
And yes,There should be no interference between two religions. And i do accept your thoughts about this. That we might some how corrupt the purity of the Holy Book by our own principles.
I am glad you see the wisdom or logic in the reason. You mention jewish population..
There is an issue with the jewish population going down, but there is a simpler answer and we don't need to missionize to solve it..
The right wing Orthodox jewish community is growing really fast. They have lots of children.
The liberal leftist jewish community is shrinking. They have "2.4" or less children, and assimilate, marry out, e.t.c.
We don't need to be a massive population..
We are supposed to be a nation amongst the nations.
Now, although I have mentioned wise reasons for us not missionizing.. reasons that apply today.
There is also a historical aspect to it though, of why we didn't missionize for 2000 years. (and it has probably had a psycholoiglca affect)
It is an aside. Because I have already mentioned the reasons why we don't today.. and why we shouldn't..
But historically..
I have heard that in earlier times in history, like prior to christianity, there was alot of missionizing .. (though no doubt if you go back a bit further, to the ancient greeks persecuting us, jews were murdered for practicing judaism, jews practiced it in secret and so certainly no missionizing there!)
The jewish courts nowadays test candidates for sincerity of willingness to convert.. putting them off. I have heard that that may not have always been the case.. and at one point there were many converts.
There is no question that under christian and muslim persecution, and in order to remain in the good books of the host countries we lived in during exile, we couldn't preach. Jews were quiet, fearful for their lives. Infact, Christians would call jews into public debates, and not give the jew the right to free speech. (we still never lost, and infact the brilliant rabbi moshe ben nachman won so clearly, that he was rewarded as the winner by the -christian- king of spain, before he had to flee spain)
The following does not apply to hinduism, but there is some essential history here. I'm sure you'll sympathise with the jewish side here, particularly the christian missionary issue..
I hope the following sentence isn't too offensive to christians, but it's essential to my point.
From a jewish (not christian) perspective, what happened was that people liked some ideas of judaism but not the law, so they removed that bit, and we got Christianity.
It didn't work out well for jews. We were persecuted for 2000 years. Persecution against jews by christians was so terrible that jews were alot better off -under- the muslims. It was a complete tragedy. Only now has christianity become nice again (and in some circles they are only nice to convert us, as if they have one commandment "get the jew").
Jews under christianity were in such hell, that by comparison, living under muslims was freedom! (at the worst times, imagine them holding the cross at jews chanting from the new testament as they burnt jews in fire.. or as jews jumped into the fire rather than convert)
This 2000 year historical reality is likely why the situation is as it is today.. But as you noticed, there is great wisdom in not preaching .. even today when the ruling powers are lenient.
Nowadays we still suffer from people that happily teach judaism to every christians willing to listen. They don't persecute us, but we get judaized christianity which can win jews over. It must be pointed out though, that as bad as todays christian missionaries are. As rabbi Kahane said(in a speech that moved many in his audience to tears), the biggest problem jews face, is not jews for jesus, it's jews for nothing.
And that's another point there. the worst thing is jews that abandon judaism, because that is a really big sin, and so that is a priority.
Preaching of the 7 noachide laws isn't such a problem, and you ask about judaism and should be told about those. Generally though, I think that if gentiles are nice and they have their own religion then they deserve respect, in that if they haven't asked about it, I wouldn't preach anything to them.
This is the case with JTF.. We have many good christians.. a good hindu (you. Maybe more! I don't know). Some good atheists perhaps too - that don't preach their atheism! If they ask, then I would explain the 7 noachide laws.. Even bits of judaism here and there, if they ask. But some of the unwise here just use things as a springboard to teach non-jews as if they are jews, like they hear something from a rabbi - or jewish website- and look for excuses to teach it to the world, which the rabbi never intended. We learn that the Torah is our inheritance and our betrothed, and that's G-d's will. I have read once in a commentary, that to teach it to gentiles would be like causing them to commit theft and adultary. There are certainly discussions of restrictions.. And a concept that we are a nation amongst nations, not trying to become a one world religion. 2 perhaps judaism and the 7 noachide laws.. But but we don't even -push- the latter onto people. And we don't teach Torah to gentiles even if they ask - ther are at least restrictions that are debated, and it's safer for us to be strict. It's not harming us. It would harm us if we disobey jewish law.
It may well be that historically it went wrong as punishment for preaching to gentiles.. Now we are more cautious. I have mentioned reasons that apply even without the historical persecution. Our books are quite clear that we shouldn't. So maybe historically when we did, we were punished. And are today too.
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Remember, let no 'one' Jew speak for all Jews. What you have heard here is the opinions of several Jews of varying levels of understanding. I think my advice of seeking a Rabbi to ask questions of is the best course. It is difficult to form an opinion of the Jewish people from a forum like this.
Im sure a Chabad Rabbi would not have any problem talking with you about your interest.
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Remember, let no 'one' Jew speak for all Jews. What you have heard here is the opinions of several Jews of varying levels of understanding. I think my advice of seeking a Rabbi to ask questions of is the best course. It is difficult to form an opinion of the Jewish people from a forum like this.
Im sure a Chabad Rabbi would not have any problem talking with you about your interest.
I don't think rabbis - chabad or otherwise would appreciate curious non-jews contacting them to learn about judaism. That is not what rabbis are for. (even if they are polite about it).
Smart jews understand that.
Remember that even non-jews that want to convert are discouraged by jewish courts.
For example the chabad in india are there to serve jews.
A slight exception is that there are some chabad places that cater well to real noachide communities(gentiles that believe the torah and follow the 7 laws. Of course, they are not there to study Torah in depth) .
And the chabad in the UK is quite smart, in that it runs a drugs support helpline which helps non-jews. The british govt really likes them.. And in this manner chabad also don't need to rely on the big left wing jewish organisations to have a listening ear from a govt minister. Chabad actually got a mention a number of years ago by a former leader of the opposition, the then Conservative party leader William Hague, in his party's pamphlet manifesto. They go around the streets of london talking to drug addicts helping them off drugs, and don't preach religion to them at all. They get mistreated by these drugees initially but in the end they and their work is appreciated , which is good for them and for jews and is a kiddush hashem. That's their work with non-jews!
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If a person is honestly seeking to be close to Hashem and has a true interest in conversion there is no problem with a person talking to a Rabbi about it. As I have said before I know several people who have gone through the Orthodox conversion process and are recognized as fully converted Orthodox Jews today.
Although I know what you are talking about I disagree that there is no point in talking to Rabbi about this. Only a person talking face to face can recommend what someones spiritual path should be. If the Chabad rabbi feels this person should go down the Noachide path they will recommend that. If the person seems more inclined to convert they will recommend that.
I know my Chabad Rabbis definately give time to non-Jews to discuss these kinds of issues. Maybe they are different over there in UK.
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If a person is honestly seeking to be close to Hashem and has a true interest in conversion there is no problem with a person talking to a Rabbi about it. As I have said before I know several people who have gone through the Orthodox conversion process and are recognized as fully converted Orthodox Jews today.
Although I know what you are talking about I disagree that there is no point in talking to Rabbi about this. Only a person talking face to face can recommend what someones spiritual path should be. If the Chabad rabbi feels this person should go down the Noachide path they will recommend that. If the person seems more inclined to convert they will recommend that.
I know my Chabad Rabbis definately give time to non-Jews to discuss these kinds of issues. Maybe they are different over there in UK.
This non-jew is a proud(in a good way) believing follower of a religion other than judaism.
That is not somebody thinking of dropping his religion either for converting, or to become a proper noachide.
You like to talk in funny language rather than use plain language, when you say "honestly seeking to be close to Hashem". I happen to know what you -mean-, and why you say it, but it's not a clever reason. And let's be clear. Jews (Rabbis or not) don't look for that, whatever that means. They don't say oh great a visit from a mother teresa type(honest, G-d fearing, great). They would be "interested" in a non-jew that wants to convert, or one that wants to become a proper noachide. But not interested in just any honest G-d seeking non-jew, there are honest G-d seeking christians and hindus and so on.
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Muman, it's a little soon to talk about anyone converting to Judaism. Hindu Zionist just expressed some interest in learning more about Judaism.
I think he should try and find the books I recommended to start out. If he has any questions, he can ask Chaim in Ask JTF, or he can direct his post to the rest of us here. Also, I just found out that Dennis Prager has a CD about Judaism for non-Jews. Here's a link to buy it:
http://stores.dennisprager.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=R059&Category_Code=01C&Product_Count=17
Now Dennis Prager is not a rabbi. So I don't know that it would count as teaching the Torah to non-Jews. Prager is a smart, right leaning Jew (not nearly as right wing as us JTF'ers) who writes interesting columns.
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Lisa- the only time Dennis Prager didn't look smart was when he was debating Kahane!
People calling in were many of his regular listeners and said they were disappointed with Prager avoiding questions and not being honest.
Which is percisely what Rabbi Kahane said he was doing..
He does say some very silly things.. There is no Judaism for non-jews..
He would probably try to apply jewish themes and make some nonsense.
I don't think a book on judaism by Dennis Prager is reliable.. He doesn't believe that the Torah was given at Sinai.
He has his strengths, but judaism isn't one of them. He is just good at exposing anti-semites - be they leftists or holocaust deniers.
Hindu Zionist doesn't need lots of books. The one you recommended earlier, the idiot guide by Rabbi Blech, has been highly praised, they say to ignore the fact that the title says "idiot"!
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Fair enough q_q. However, sometimes his columns can be interesting.
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thank you everyone for helping me out.
It will take me 2-3 weeks before i am able to comment anything
One question, i found Zohar very very interesting, can i start reading from this?
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thank you everyone for helping me out.
It will take me 2-3 weeks before i am able to comment anything
One question, i found Zohar very very interesting, can i start reading from this?
Please don't. It is our mystical text which only should be studied once you have a firm understanding of Tanakh. This text would not be recommended by any Jew. Do not study the Zohar!
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thank you everyone for helping me out.
It will take me 2-3 weeks before i am able to comment anything
One question, i found Zohar very very interesting, can i start reading from this?
You wont understand it, the language is cryptic, it uses words that you can understand only with a guide who recieves the tradition correctly.
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thank you everyone for helping me out.
It will take me 2-3 weeks before i am able to comment anything
One question, i found Zohar very very interesting, can i start reading from this?
Please don't. It is our mystical text which only should be studied once you have a firm understanding of Tanakh. This text would not be recommended by any Jew. Do not study the Zohar!
So does it mean i have to read the Tanakh first and then read the Zohar? or is it that a non-jew is not supposed to learn about it?
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thank you everyone for helping me out.
It will take me 2-3 weeks before i am able to comment anything
One question, i found Zohar very very interesting, can i start reading from this?
Please don't. It is our mystical text which only should be studied once you have a firm understanding of Tanakh. This text would not be recommended by any Jew. Do not study the Zohar!
So does it mean i have to read the Tanakh first and then read the Zohar? or is it that a non-jew is not supposed to learn about it?
You wont understand properly (and neither would a regular Jew).
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I think the best thing would be to start out with the first two books I recommended.
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<snip>
So does it mean i have to read the Tanakh first and then read the Zohar? or is it that a non-jew is not supposed to learn about it?
[/quote]
a non-jew is not supposed to learn about the zohar.
basics about judaism are fine.. The books Lisa mentioned.
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<snip>
So does it mean i have to read the Tanakh first and then read the Zohar? or is it that a non-jew is not supposed to learn about it?
a non-jew is not supposed to learn about the zohar.
basics about judaism are fine.. The books Lisa mentioned.
I think its very hard to enforce rules like that on non Jews. If the books are available people will look into them if they are interested in learning what they contain.
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<snip>
So does it mean i have to read the Tanakh first and then read the Zohar? or is it that a non-jew is not supposed to learn about it?
a non-jew is not supposed to learn about the zohar.
basics about judaism are fine.. The books Lisa mentioned.
I think its very hard to enforce rules like that on non Jews. If the books are available people will look into them if they are interested in learning what they contain.
Listen. He wants to know what judaism says
He is not asking if it's ok. He is asking if judaism says it's ok. That's what he means.
It is not enforcing rules.
It is not enforcing rules any more than you asking me if (according to judaism) you are allowed to be an atheist or do certain things, and me telling you that according to judaism, all people in the world should believe in G-d and shouldn't commit certain sins. Just like christianity also makes claims as to what all people should believe.
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If it is a book you would like then maybe get the book "Beyond a reasonable doubt" By Rabbi Shmuel Waldman.
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Tzvi did it again.
Just listen to Lisa and ignore everybody else.
I am not going into why. Not again.
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Tzvi did it again.
Just listen to Lisa and ignore everybody else.
I am not going into why. Not again.
I did nothing wrong. He asked for good book and for suggestions , and I gave him. I am confident that Halahically it is okay and actually good for him to read this type of book. Please tell me what is wrong (Halahically) with my suggestion (to his question)?
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Tzvi did it again.
Just listen to Lisa and ignore everybody else.
I am not going into why. Not again.
I did nothing wrong. He asked for good book and for suggestions , and I gave him. I am confident that Halahically it is okay and actually good for him to read this type of book. Please tell me what is wrong (Halahically) with my suggestion (to his question)?
I didn't say it was halachically wrong. I said it was Tzvi being Tzvi again.
First, at least be honest about what you are trying to do
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Tzvi did it again.
Just listen to Lisa and ignore everybody else.
I am not going into why. Not again.
I did nothing wrong. He asked for good book and for suggestions , and I gave him. I am confident that Halahically it is okay and actually good for him to read this type of book. Please tell me what is wrong (Halahically) with my suggestion (to his question)?
I didn't say it was halachically wrong. I said it was Tzvi being Tzvi again.
First, at least be honest about what you are trying to do
Exactly.
And I am honest, and I wasn't and aren't hiding anything. This person asked for books to learn about Judaism and the Torah. Or the same as getting closer to G-d and learning about G-d. I suggested him 1 book (that I got today, and heard the author speaking today actually), that writes about recognizing G-d (and writes why with scientific proof). According to the Torah everyone should recognize 1 G-d, and His Torah. Their are also 7 Mitzvot Bnai Noah (actually that is the foundation its more then that), but 1 of them is to recognize 1 G-d. On top of that he is asking to learn about Torah and learning about G-d. Am I trying to have (or let) him recognize it? YES. And I'm not ashamed of that at all.
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And by the way qq- you do know that it is a Mitzva? Their are actually sources in the Talmud that says that the Jews were exiled only to teach the rest of the world about G-d. (I'm not going to get into the discussion about that right now, of what if they were not exiled, etc.) . And on top of that, since it is a Mitzva, Hashuva. You shouldn't try preventing someone making a Mitzva.
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There is a difference between
-a book that explains about judaism,.
And
-a book that is to prove judaism the true religion - and no doubt that other religions are false or have no evidence.
You recommended a book for the latter. Be honest.
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There is a difference between
-a book that explains about judaism,.
And
-a book that is to prove judaism the true religion - and no doubt that other religions are false or have no evidence.
You recommended a book for the latter. Be honest.
I didn't read the book yett. But from what he was speaking he was speaking about science basically (explaining in details).
And I dont see the difference of what you said.
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Here ill type the chapters (in order).
compelling evidence of a creator.
the Divine origin of the Torah
The world to come- eternal existence
the 7 wonders of Jewish history.
Divine guidence throughout Jewish history
some more understanding of the Holocaust and human suffering
understanding G-d's forknowledge and our free will
the downfall of the theory of evolution
epilogue
Appendix A: The oral Law
B:The unity of G-d
C: can G-d give himself a cold that even he cant cure?
D: the Messiah
E: Ressurection of the dead
F: Torah and nature working together
G: the amazing traditions of the Torah
H: the orinins of christianity and islam
Jewish organizations
suggested reading
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There is a difference between
-a book that explains about judaism,.
And
-a book that is to prove judaism the true religion - and no doubt that other religions are false or have no evidence.
You recommended a book for the latter. Be honest.
<snip>
I dont see the difference of what you said.
Read the sentences carefully.
Does anybody here admit to not seeing the difference between those two sentences?
By the way, the front cover of the book says "Convincing proofs of the truths of judaism"
And it is described as "Written for the Jew who seeks evidence and proofs that the principal beliefs of Judaism are indeed true"
And there is information there about, as you show in your post The Origins of christianity and islam. Of course the book argues against the truth of all other religions.. Not just christianity and islam which you mention there.
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"By the way, the front cover of the book says "Convincing proofs of the truths of judaism""
IT says "Convincing Evidence of the truths of Judaism"
"And it is described as "Written for the Jew who seeks evidence and proofs that the principal beliefs of Judaism are indeed true""
I dont see that.
"And there is information there about, as you show in your post The Origins of christianity and islam. Of course the book argues against the truth of all other religions.. Not just christianity and islam which you mention there. "
So? I just listed the chapers in order by the way. And either way, it doesn't matter. Stop waisting your time with your non-sense comments relating to this because you are wrong and dont have what to back yourself up.
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i do not mind reading about Judaism being the true religion and others being not so. I think this is a fact. Hinduism teaches one to take a path of knowing about God through a way which is suited for one according to his inner beliefs. SO when i wish to know about Judaism as being a true religion. i'm not going against any Hindu concepts. Understanding about Judaism can be a problem for Christianity or Islam as both consider itself to be propogating the truth.But not for us. And i agree with muman when he said a local Rabbi would be the best person to guide.I would first understand as much as i can and if there comes a time where i get opportunity to know from a Rabbi,i would certainly do so.
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"By the way, the front cover of the book says "Convincing proofs of the truths of judaism""
IT says "Convincing Evidence of the truths of Judaism"
"And it is described as "Written for the Jew who seeks evidence and proofs that the principal beliefs of Judaism are indeed true""
I dont see that.
try looking at the publisher's website, or other websites describing the book.
Now, we can't have a sensible discussion unless you understand
Hindu Zinoist understands the the difference between these 2 types of book..
Think a bit harder Tzvi, think till it hurts.
It doesn't take much logic to understand this difference. Think a little.
Tell me, do these 2 descriptions still look the same to you.. do you still see no difference between.
-a book that explains about judaism,.
And
-a book that is to prove judaism the true religion - and no doubt that other religions are false or have no evidence.
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"By the way, the front cover of the book says "Convincing proofs of the truths of judaism""
IT says "Convincing Evidence of the truths of Judaism"
"And it is described as "Written for the Jew who seeks evidence and proofs that the principal beliefs of Judaism are indeed true""
I dont see that.
try looking at the publisher's website, or other websites describing the book.
Now, we can't have a sensible discussion unless you understand
Hindu Zinoist understands the the difference between these 2 types of book..
Think a bit harder Tzvi, think till it hurts.
It doesn't take much logic to understand this difference. Think a little.
Tell me, do these 2 descriptions still look the same to you.. do you still see no difference between.
-a book that explains about judaism,.
And
-a book that is to prove judaism the true religion - and no doubt that other religions are false or have no evidence.
First off, this book doesn't seem to go after other religions. about the 2 other religions its just 11 pages (and talking about the origins- I skimmed, but it was something to the reffect of yeshu was a religious Jew (and said to follow Torah) and paul introduced the whole virgin we shall worship thing. And mo also wanted to continue in judaism, but was rejected as a prohet. Also some of the sura's broguht (I skimmed).
The main part of the book is about knowing the Creator and what he created etc. (I think it is more of a book to challenge science instead of other religions). But either way I dont care and it dont matter.
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can some one please tell me, does Aliyah apply to a Non-Jew who converts to Judaism?
Thank You.
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can some one please tell me, does Aliyah apply to a Non-Jew who converts to Judaism?
Thank You.
A person who completes (orthodox) conversion (and I think also lives in the community where he had undergone the conversion for at least a year), can make Aliyah by Israeli law.
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Thank You Zelhar, thats interesting.