JTF.ORG Forum
Kahanist Singles => Jewish Singles => Topic started by: admin on January 28, 2008, 06:02:25 PM
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
Senior proms shoudl be banned only for losers and degenerates. But everybody else can go.
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Don't know or care. They don't have them here in the UK, so I wouldn't know what they're like.
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
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Hey Yacov, can you start a thread that isn't a question about "banning" something?
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Didnt go to mine, but it doesnt bother me what the others did ;)
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
Senior proms shoudl be banned only for losers and degenerates. But everybody else can go.
I think party poopers should be banned from attending prom.
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We never had them, but who cares, its not a religious thing, of course Jews should go.
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
Proms might not be Christian but they are Gentile and go against Jewish tradition.
So it's sinful in the Jewish religion to celebrate graduating from High school?
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
Proms might not be Christian but they are Gentile and go against Jewish tradition.
So it's sinful in the Jewish religion to celebrate graduating from High school?
:::D :::D :::D :::D You never know
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Didn't go to mine, but it doesn't bother me what the others did ;)
Your future relationship will be blessed for abstaining from that nonsense.
So how come you didn't want to go?
I hated high school really, I never really did any of the after school activities, just couldnt wait to get out ;)
I think its all nonsense too, I rolled my eyes so much at all the silliness of getting excited over a dance that Im surprised they didnt roll right out :D
Proms wont ever likely be banned but I agree that they are silly.
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We never had them, but who cares, its not a religious thing, of course Jews should go.
I only went to once "dance" in my lifetime and it was from Hebrew School. I didn't have a good time anyway because all the girls had dates so I had no one to dance with anyway.
They called it a "Confirmation dance" because many self-hating Jews have "Confirmations" when they are 15 so they had it for the 10th Graders at my Hebrew School because it was a "community Hebrew School" and not part of one movement so they had to cater to the Deformed people who have Christian celebrations ("Confirmations") disguised as Jewish celebrations in their Deformed synagogues. I never had one and I only went to the dance because I wasn't modest yet then and I wanted to dance with women for lustful reasons. Now I know it is wrong to want to dance with women other than my wife and I regret attending. Maybe G-d punished me for it by making me not have a good time but actually He was probably blessing me by preventing me from sinning. The dance was in a ballroom at a Deform synagogue. I think they had a disco ball hanging from the ceiling and I didn't see the part of the building where the Deforms pray in.
I have been to many dances, and I enjoy it.
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
Proms might not be Christian but they are Gentile and go against Jewish tradition.
So it's sinful in the Jewish religion to celebrate graduating from High school?
No but it is sinful to dance with members of the opposite sex unless it is your spouse and in private.
Once again you are showing your "brilliant" affirmative action "logic".
You are the one seeking to ban fun from people's lives. But I'm showing "affirmative action" logic? What does that mean, anyway, Yacov? I attend a Marine Corps ball with my husband every year and enjoy dancing with my friends AND with my husband. I guess I'm going to hell in a handbasket, huh? ::)
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
Proms might not be Christian but they are Gentile and go against Jewish tradition.
So it's sinful in the Jewish religion to celebrate graduating from High school?
No but it is sinful to dance with members of the opposite sex unless it is your spouse and in private.
Once again you are showing your "brilliant" affirmative action "logic".
You are the one seeking to ban fun from people's lives. But I'm showing "affirmative action" logic? What does that mean, anyway, Yacov? I attend a Marine Corps ball with my husband every year and enjoy dancing with my friends AND with my husband. I guess I'm going to hell in a handbasket, huh? ::)
Erica, Yacov specifically said that this doesn't apply to gentiles, a few times. I can't believe that you just seriously asked that question. In Yacov's poll, I answered "no" to you being a troll, but I'm starting to think I should have cast my vote the other way... ;)
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Didn't go to mine, but it doesn't bother me what the others did ;)
Your future relationship will be blessed for abstaining from that nonsense.
So how come you didn't want to go?
I hated high school really, I never really did any of the after school activities, just couldnt wait to get out ;)
I think its all nonsense too, I rolled my eyes so much at all the silliness of getting excited over a dance that Im surprised they didnt roll right out :D
Proms wont ever likely be banned but I agree that they are silly.
You are such a Righteous Gentile. Did you ever go to other school dances?
I also was not into extracurricular activites in high school. But in middle school I was on the baseball team but they hardly ever let me get into the games. So I wasted 2 hours after school every weekday at practice just to watch other people play in games.
I also never dated anyone in school. In middle school I wanted to but in high school I didn't want to. But now I'm glad I never dated anyone in middle school.
Did you ever go on a date in middle school or high school?
Ha ha not many. My father was a very large and loud former Marine, most boys wouldnt ask me or my sister out because they had to meet and be grilled by him ;)
I had my first real boyfriend my first year of University.
No I didnt do any activities, not involving the school, I went, did my work, got good grades and graduated, I had no desire for anything else there.
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
Proms might not be Christian but they are Gentile and go against Jewish tradition.
So it's sinful in the Jewish religion to celebrate graduating from High school?
No but it is sinful to dance with members of the opposite sex unless it is your spouse and in private.
Once again you are showing your "brilliant" affirmative action "logic".
You are the one seeking to ban fun from people's lives. But I'm showing "affirmative action" logic? What does that mean, anyway, Yacov? I attend a Marine Corps ball with my husband every year and enjoy dancing with my friends AND with my husband. I guess I'm going to hell in a handbasket, huh? ::)
I said this only applies for Jews. But are your friends that you are dancing with men? If so, it is adultery and even Gentiles shouldn't do that.
Affirmative action logic is the inability to comprehend basic things.
That proves that when you say Affirmative action that you are slandering a race. Bravo!
I dance with my female friends and next to other men while my husband is next to me when we do group dances, like the Cha Cha Slide, the Electric slide, or the Cupid Shuffle. It's fun and I love it!
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
Proms might not be Christian but they are Gentile and go against Jewish tradition.
So it's sinful in the Jewish religion to celebrate graduating from High school?
No but it is sinful to dance with members of the opposite sex unless it is your spouse and in private.
Once again you are showing your "brilliant" affirmative action "logic".
You are the one seeking to ban fun from people's lives. But I'm showing "affirmative action" logic? What does that mean, anyway, Yacov? I attend a Marine Corps ball with my husband every year and enjoy dancing with my friends AND with my husband. I guess I'm going to hell in a handbasket, huh? ::)
LOL Hey Erica save me a seat :::D
As the muzzzies say Hell is full of women :::D :::D :::D
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
Proms might not be Christian but they are Gentile and go against Jewish tradition.
So it's sinful in the Jewish religion to celebrate graduating from High school?
No but it is sinful to dance with members of the opposite sex unless it is your spouse and in private.
Once again you are showing your "brilliant" affirmative action "logic".
You are the one seeking to ban fun from people's lives. But I'm showing "affirmative action" logic? What does that mean, anyway, Yacov? I attend a Marine Corps ball with my husband every year and enjoy dancing with my friends AND with my husband. I guess I'm going to hell in a handbasket, huh? ::)
LOL Hey Erica save me a seat :::D
As the muzzzies say Hell is full of women :::D :::D :::D
I do wonder which part of hell people who enjoy smiling and having a good time (which doesn't require sexual acts, or drinking, Yacov) go to. lol
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
Proms might not be Christian but they are Gentile and go against Jewish tradition.
So it's sinful in the Jewish religion to celebrate graduating from High school?
No but it is sinful to dance with members of the opposite sex unless it is your spouse and in private.
Once again you are showing your "brilliant" affirmative action "logic".
You are the one seeking to ban fun from people's lives. But I'm showing "affirmative action" logic? What does that mean, anyway, Yacov? I attend a Marine Corps ball with my husband every year and enjoy dancing with my friends AND with my husband. I guess I'm going to hell in a handbasket, huh? ::)
LOL Hey Erica save me a seat :::D
As the muzzzies say Hell is full of women :::D :::D :::D
But they say Heaven has 72 virgins though.
Yes but Virgins are Girls not women, women are mother, wifes etc.
Theres a huge difference between them.
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
Proms might not be Christian but they are Gentile and go against Jewish tradition.
So it's sinful in the Jewish religion to celebrate graduating from High school?
No but it is sinful to dance with members of the opposite sex unless it is your spouse and in private.
Once again you are showing your "brilliant" affirmative action "logic".
You are the one seeking to ban fun from people's lives. But I'm showing "affirmative action" logic? What does that mean, anyway, Yacov? I attend a Marine Corps ball with my husband every year and enjoy dancing with my friends AND with my husband. I guess I'm going to hell in a handbasket, huh? ::)
I said this only applies for Jews. But are your friends that you are dancing with men? If so, it is adultery and even Gentiles shouldn't do that.
Affirmative action logic is the inability to comprehend basic things.
That proves that when you say Affirmative action that you are slandering a race. Bravo!
I'm not saying that. You out of your own G-d given free will choose the wrong culture and refuse to comprehend when someone explains to you the righteous thing. So you chose to be that way. Why do we have other blacks on JTF that agree with JTF? In fact, one is Jewish and is an excellent Global Moderator.
Cupid Shuffle
What a pagan dance. You are dancing in order to celebrate the pagan g-d Cupid. Pure idolatry!
GEEZ, Yacov. NO THE CUPID SHUFFLE ISN'T A PEGAN DANCE! No more than Def Leopard is a band whose name is based around the death of a leopard. lol You are ignorant!
This is the Cupid Shuffle.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iJQKBk4oDr4
It's a dance made by a man whose stage name is "Cupid".
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This is not a simple question as you think. We are not allowed to impose restrictions on our fellow Jews on things that may be technically allowed Rabbinically and Biblically. This voilates the Torah prohibition of going to the right of what the Torah teaches. Although many religious Jews including me and everyone on this forum don't think it is propper to dance with a single girl and every Rabbi will tell you that it is not propper to do so (and the Jews of old didn't do this), if you investigate the matter, this is going beyond the letter of the law to those that adhere to the Rambam and the Ramban and it is really not violating any Rabbinical or Biblical ruling so we can not make it forbidden, we can just discourage it. This is especially pertinant to Baal Tshuva's and Baal Tshuvah Yeshivas that try to bring close not religious Jews. These Jews want to have a prom and look forward to it and having one will bring them closer to Judaism since they will like the School and not think the religious are fanatics.
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
If it's immodest, I don't care who it makes happy.
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This is not a simple question as you think. We are not allowed to impose restrictions on our fellow Jews on things that may be technically allowed Rabbinically and Biblically. This violates the Torah prohibition of going to the right of what the Torah teaches. Although many religious Jews including me and everyone on this forum don't think it is propper to dance with a single girl and every Rabbi will tell you that it is not propper to do so (and the Jews of old didn't do this), if you investigate the matter, this is going beyond the letter of the law to those that adhere to the Rambam and the Ramban and it is really not violating any Rabbinical or Biblical ruling so we can not make it forbidden, we can just discourage it. This is especially pertinant to Baal Tshuva's and Baal Tshuvah Yeshivas that try to bring close not religious Jews. These Jews want to have a prom and look forward to it and having one will bring them closer to Judaism since they will like the School and not think the religious are fanatics.
But isn't the concept of a "prom" a Gentile concept? Dancing might be permitted but calling it a prom is purely a Gentile concept.
A prom isn't based off of religion at all, Yacov. Here's the definition:
In the United States and Canada a prom, short for promenade, is used to describe a formal dance held at the end of an academic year. In the United Kingdom, the term is more widely understood to be in reference to a season of classical concerts or "proms", which have been held between July and September since 1895, today run by the BBC. The British synonym for the North American event would be Valedictory Ball, Leavers' Ball, Leavers' Dinner or informally Leavers' Do, closer to the Australian description (see below.) In Canada the terms Grad or Formal are most common and the event is usually only held for those in their graduating year of high school or middle school.
While proms at smaller schools may be open to the entire student body, large high schools may hold two proms, a junior prom for those finishing their 11th grade year and a senior prom for those who are finishing their high school or middle school years. The name is derived from the late nineteenth century practice of a promenade ball. The end of year tradition stemmed from the graduation ball tradition.
Boys usually dress in black tie (a dinner jacket and bow tie), sometimes with brightly colored cummerbunds or vests, though any sort of formal wear can be worn. Traditionally, girls gave boys matching boutonnieres to be worn on their tuxedos or waistcoats. Girls traditionally wear formal gowns or dresses adorned with a corsage given to them by their date. Many boys also match the color of their tie to their date's dress. Often, boys and girls will dress according to the theme of the prom - e.g. pastel suits for a Miami Vice-themed prom.
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
If it's immodest, I don't care who it makes happy.
How is dressing up in a prom gown and tuxedo immodest?
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
If it's immodest, I don't care who it makes happy.
I agree some can be very eye opening.
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
If it's immodest, I don't care who it makes happy.
I agree some can be very eye opening.
What the prom, itself or some of the prom dresses?
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So Torah observant Jews are now "losers and degenerates"?
The rabbis already banned it in The Talmud as a fence around The Torah I believe.
No, Torah observant Jews are not losers or degenerates..but these banning polls are beginning to make you look like one...Ban going to the prom for yourself, but don't ruin it for everyone else who wants to go and those who go purely for the fun of it and not sexual reasons... Not everything is tied to sex..maybe to you it is because you are deprived, but that's not either here nor there.
personally, I went with my close friend and we didnt' drink or do the whole limo thing. We went out to lunch the next day and went to Central park
no sex, no kissing no nothing...and we had a nice time bonding. She's currently married with two children.
and i know plenty of people who go with their friends..It's a fun thing for seniors in highschool...and if there are Jews going to public school we hope that their parents are teaching them to behave and not give into peer pressure. Those that go and have sex and get drunk and do drugs are the evil ones..not if a curious boy wants to dance with a girl..There is nothing evil about that...
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We never had them, but who cares, its not a religious thing, of course Jews should go.
I only went to once "dance" in my lifetime and it was from Hebrew School. I didn't have a good time anyway because all the girls had dates so I had no one to dance with anyway.
They called it a "Confirmation dance" because many self-hating Jews have "Confirmations" when they are 15 so they had it for the 10th Graders at my Hebrew School because it was a "community Hebrew School" and not part of one movement so they had to cater to the Deformed people who have Christian celebrations ("Confirmations") disguised as Jewish celebrations in their Deformed synagogues. I never had one and I only went to the dance because I wasn't modest yet then and I wanted to dance with women for lustful reasons. Now I know it is wrong to want to dance with women other than my wife and I regret attending. Maybe G-d punished me for it by making me not have a good time but actually He was probably blessing me by preventing me from sinning. The dance was in a ballroom at a Deform synagogue. I think they had a disco ball hanging from the ceiling and I didn't see the part of the building where the Deforms pray in.
That must explain your bitterness of proms and valentine's day...
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
Proms might not be Christian but they are Gentile and go against Jewish tradition.
So it's sinful in the Jewish religion to celebrate graduating from High school?
No but it is sinful to dance with members of the opposite sex unless it is your spouse and in private.
Once again you are showing your "brilliant" affirmative action "logic".
You are the one seeking to ban fun from people's lives. But I'm showing "affirmative action" logic? What does that mean, anyway, Yacov? I attend a Marine Corps ball with my husband every year and enjoy dancing with my friends AND with my husband. I guess I'm going to hell in a handbasket, huh? ::)
I said this only applies for Jews. But are your friends that you are dancing with men? If so, it is adultery and even Gentiles shouldn't do that.
Affirmative action logic is the inability to comprehend basic things.
It's adultary if you haev sex or come close to it and do somethign intimate...
Dancing is hardly intimate in my culture...but one can make it that way if they make it their intention.
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This is not a simple question as you think. We are not allowed to impose restrictions on our fellow Jews on things that may be technically allowed Rabbinically and Biblically. This voilates the Torah prohibition of going to the right of what the Torah teaches. Although many religious Jews including me and everyone on this forum don't think it is propper to dance with a single girl and every Rabbi will tell you that it is not propper to do so (and the Jews of old didn't do this), if you investigate the matter, this is going beyond the letter of the law to those that adhere to the Rambam and the Ramban and it is really not violating any Rabbinical or Biblical ruling so we can not make it forbidden, we can just discourage it. This is especially pertinant to Baal Tshuva's and Baal Tshuvah Yeshivas that try to bring close not religious Jews. These Jews want to have a prom and look forward to it and having one will bring them closer to Judaism since they will like the School and not think the religious are fanatics.
So wise...love it!
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We never had them, but who cares, its not a religious thing, of course Jews should go.
I only went to once "dance" in my lifetime and it was from Hebrew School. I didn't have a good time anyway because all the girls had dates so I had no one to dance with anyway.
They called it a "Confirmation dance" because many self-hating Jews have "Confirmations" when they are 15 so they had it for the 10th Graders at my Hebrew School because it was a "community Hebrew School" and not part of one movement so they had to cater to the Deformed people who have Christian celebrations ("Confirmations") disguised as Jewish celebrations in their Deformed synagogues. I never had one and I only went to the dance because I wasn't modest yet then and I wanted to dance with women for lustful reasons. Now I know it is wrong to want to dance with women other than my wife and I regret attending. Maybe G-d punished me for it by making me not have a good time but actually He was probably blessing me by preventing me from sinning. The dance was in a ballroom at a Deform synagogue. I think they had a disco ball hanging from the ceiling and I didn't see the part of the building where the Deforms pray in.
That must explain your bitterness of proms and valentine's day...
He is good kid, Doc just a little high strung.
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We never had them, but who cares, its not a religious thing, of course Jews should go.
I only went to once "dance" in my lifetime and it was from Hebrew School. I didn't have a good time anyway because all the girls had dates so I had no one to dance with anyway.
They called it a "Confirmation dance" because many self-hating Jews have "Confirmations" when they are 15 so they had it for the 10th Graders at my Hebrew School because it was a "community Hebrew School" and not part of one movement so they had to cater to the Deformed people who have Christian celebrations ("Confirmations") disguised as Jewish celebrations in their Deformed synagogues. I never had one and I only went to the dance because I wasn't modest yet then and I wanted to dance with women for lustful reasons. Now I know it is wrong to want to dance with women other than my wife and I regret attending. Maybe G-d punished me for it by making me not have a good time but actually He was probably blessing me by preventing me from sinning. The dance was in a ballroom at a Deform synagogue. I think they had a disco ball hanging from the ceiling and I didn't see the part of the building where the Deforms pray in.
That must explain your bitterness of proms and valentine's day...
He is good kid, Doc just a little high strung.
He is a good kid...But needs to be steered with the proper Jewish mindset...
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
If it's immodest, I don't care who it makes happy.
How is dressing up in a prom gown and tuxedo immodest?
Are you kidding me?
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We never had them, but who cares, its not a religious thing, of course Jews should go.
I only went to once "dance" in my lifetime and it was from Hebrew School. I didn't have a good time anyway because all the girls had dates so I had no one to dance with anyway.
They called it a "Confirmation dance" because many self-hating Jews have "Confirmations" when they are 15 so they had it for the 10th Graders at my Hebrew School because it was a "community Hebrew School" and not part of one movement so they had to cater to the Deformed people who have Christian celebrations ("Confirmations") disguised as Jewish celebrations in their Deformed synagogues. I never had one and I only went to the dance because I wasn't modest yet then and I wanted to dance with women for lustful reasons. Now I know it is wrong to want to dance with women other than my wife and I regret attending. Maybe G-d punished me for it by making me not have a good time but actually He was probably blessing me by preventing me from sinning. The dance was in a ballroom at a Deform synagogue. I think they had a disco ball hanging from the ceiling and I didn't see the part of the building where the Deforms pray in.
That must explain your bitterness of proms and valentine's day...
He is good kid, Doc just a little high strung.
He is a good kid...But needs to be steered with the proper Jewish mindset...
Good luck Doc with that O0
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NO, I think Proms are a part of life for High School Seniors and the whole event could be conducted in a proper and decent manner!
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
If it's immodest, I don't care who it makes happy.
How is dressing up in a prom gown and tuxedo immodest?
Same Prom gowns are very tart like, but Tuxes are very nice.
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interdancing is not banned just touching others while dancing. my rabbi said that in the times of the gemara people would modestly dance but they used tissues so they were not actually touching.
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There is nothing immoral about men and women dancing together and while many orthodox traditions prohibit it, nothing in the Torah does. The talmud only vaguely does by commanding people to follow the rabbis of the time. The problem is that if you isolate men and women too much, you end up with a lot of single people. G-d's will is for righteous people to marry and have responsible families so proms should not only be allowed, but should be encouraged. It is only some of the bad things that happen at proms that should be banned.
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The dancing is the immodest part.
Bumping and grinding are immodest along with many other types of dancing, however, the act of just dancing
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The dancing is the immodest part.
Bumping and grinding are immodest along with many other types of dancing, however, the act of just dancing
Men and women dancing together is immodest.
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The dancing is the immodest part.
Bumping and grinding are immodest along with many other types of dancing, however, the act of just dancing
Bumping and grinding isn't allowed at proms...there are adults there who talk to the students about that kind of dancing. However I don't understand how 'just dancing' is immodest. What's wrong with dancing?
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The dancing is the immodest part.
Bumping and grinding are immodest along with many other types of dancing, however, the act of just dancing
Men and women dancing together is immodest.
Not true.
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The dancing is the immodest part.
Bumping and grinding are immodest along with many other types of dancing, however, the act of just dancing
Geez for have far more fun at your dances than we had. :-\
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The dancing is the immodest part.
Bumping and grinding are immodest along with many other types of dancing, however, the act of just dancing
What dances were you allowed to do, temple?
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The dancing is the immodest part.
Bumping and grinding are immodest along with many other types of dancing, however, the act of just dancing
What dances were you allowed to do, temple?
We had old fashion ballroom dancing. :::D
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The dancing is the immodest part.
Bumping and grinding are immodest along with many other types of dancing, however, the act of just dancing
What dances were you allowed to do, temple?
We had old fashion ballroom dancing. :::D
I remember square dancing in elementary school. It was both exhausting and embarrassing at the same time. (The record kept skipping. lol)
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The dancing is the immodest part.
Bumping and grinding are immodest along with many other types of dancing, however, the act of just dancing
What dances were you allowed to do, temple?
We had old fashion ballroom dancing. :::D
I remember square dancing in elementary school. It was both exhausting and embarrassing at the same time. (The record kept skipping. lol)
Square dancing that always looks fun. Only ever seen it on the TV.
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I went to my senior prom, and I turned out fine. ::)
As I recall we did some old fashion line dancing...
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The dancing is the immodest part.
Bumping and grinding are immodest along with many other types of dancing, however, the act of just dancing
What dances were you allowed to do, temple?
We had old fashion ballroom dancing. :::D
I remember square dancing in elementary school. It was both exhausting and embarrassing at the same time. (The record kept skipping. lol)
Square dancing that always looks fun. Only ever seen it on the TV.
I remember the first time I ever saw anyone square dance ... It was on an episode of Hee Haw (I was really little though). When we tried it in 1st grade, and once we got the hang of "Prominade, one-in-all!", they gave us little country outfits to wear, topped with straw cowboy hats and had us put on a show. I'm sure to the parents we were the bees' knees but I remember a lot of us complaining about how our backs, ankles and legs hurt. :::D
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What dances were you allowed to do, temple?
I never had restrictions on what types of dancing I could do. Of course I never participated in any dancing that was dirty. I like the country dances, because they are traditional. To be honest though, I'm not an expert on dancing. I didn't go to my prom because I could not find a date, which is not entirely true because I didn't want to go with the ones that asked me out.
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We never had them, but who cares, its not a religious thing, of course Jews should go.
I only went to once "dance" in my lifetime and it was from Hebrew School. I didn't have a good time anyway because all the girls had dates so I had no one to dance with anyway.
They called it a "Confirmation dance" because many self-hating Jews have "Confirmations" when they are 15 so they had it for the 10th Graders at my Hebrew School because it was a "community Hebrew School" and not part of one movement so they had to cater to the Deformed people who have Christian celebrations ("Confirmations") disguised as Jewish celebrations in their Deformed synagogues. I never had one and I only went to the dance because I wasn't modest yet then and I wanted to dance with women for lustful reasons. Now I know it is wrong to want to dance with women other than my wife and I regret attending. Maybe G-d punished me for it by making me not have a good time but actually He was probably blessing me by preventing me from sinning. The dance was in a ballroom at a Deform synagogue. I think they had a disco ball hanging from the ceiling and I didn't see the part of the building where the Deforms pray in.
That must explain your bitterness of proms and valentine's day...
He is good kid, Doc just a little high strung.
He is a good kid...But needs to be steered with the proper Jewish mindset...
Good luck Doc with that O0
Well, i'll rely on JDLforever...he seems to be the most sensible Jew on the forum..
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My prom was fine but I do have bitter memories. See the reception was held in Windows of the World which was on top of the Trade Center which was a huge banquet.
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What dances were you allowed to do, temple?
I never had restrictions on what types of dancing I could do. Of course I never participated in any dancing that was dirty. I like the country dances, because they are traditional. To be honest though, I'm not an expert on dancing. I didn't go to my prom because I could not find a date, which is not entirely true because I didn't want to go with the ones that asked me out.
Well, the guy you saw in my prom picture should have stayed home with his mom. That was one of my only gripes about my prom...he was a wet blanket. As far as dancing though...I wasn't big on it, myself. I actually danced a lot like my mom then... 1-2 stepping and all. lol NOW I know some dances but you'll be happy to know that I can't stand provocative dances.
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The dancing is the immodest part.
Bumping and grinding are immodest along with many other types of dancing, however, the act of just dancing
yeh somethign like this is good to do with your spouse in private ;)
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They use to have every Saturday evening at a temple in Whitestone, Queens where the older folks use to go every weekend pay I think like 5 bucks and danced a few hours. And then went home.
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We never had them, but who cares, its not a religious thing, of course Jews should go.
I only went to once "dance" in my lifetime and it was from Hebrew School. I didn't have a good time anyway because all the girls had dates so I had no one to dance with anyway.
They called it a "Confirmation dance" because many self-hating Jews have "Confirmations" when they are 15 so they had it for the 10th Graders at my Hebrew School because it was a "community Hebrew School" and not part of one movement so they had to cater to the Deformed people who have Christian celebrations ("Confirmations") disguised as Jewish celebrations in their Deformed synagogues. I never had one and I only went to the dance because I wasn't modest yet then and I wanted to dance with women for lustful reasons. Now I know it is wrong to want to dance with women other than my wife and I regret attending. Maybe G-d punished me for it by making me not have a good time but actually He was probably blessing me by preventing me from sinning. The dance was in a ballroom at a Deform synagogue. I think they had a disco ball hanging from the ceiling and I didn't see the part of the building where the Deforms pray in.
That must explain your bitterness of proms and valentine's day...
He is good kid, Doc just a little high strung.
He is a good kid...But needs to be steered with the proper Jewish mindset...
Good luck Doc with that O0
Well, i'll rely on JDLforever...he seems to be the most sensible Jew on the forum..
I agree I think he is very sensible.
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I never even went to a High School Dance
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I never even went to a High School Dance
Don't feel bad. I never went to one either...well besides the military ball, where I met my husband :) and my prom. I wasn't allowed to go anywhere there'd be fun or boys.
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I never even went to a High School Dance
Why was that?
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All our events are girls only, a lot more fun. No smelly boys to ruin it. :)
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I went to prom, I dumped the [censored] that night after I found out she was cheating on me. Best day of my life, hope she had a long walk home.
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I removed Imerica's prom picture because it was immodest.
What was immodest about it, Yacov? My shoulders? Are you sick? Like you said, I'm not Jewish so I can pretty much dress how I'd like... my picture though was just fine and I was beautiful. I could see if I were half naked. What did you expect though.... a Quaker dress, Yacov?
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I removed Imerica's prom picture because it was immodest.
What was immodest about it, Yacov? My shoulders? Are you sick? Like you said, I'm not Jewish so I can pretty much dress how I'd like... my picture though was just fine and I was beautiful. I could see if I were half naked. What did you expect though.... a Quaker dress, Yacov?
You are not Jewish but this is a Jewish forum and we don't allow immodest pictures on here.
I wasn't naked, Yacov.You are the only person who had a problem with it. There was nothing immodest about my picture. You're just a sad individual especially if you feel threatened by shoulders of a woman.
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I removed Imerica's prom picture because it was immodest.
What was immodest about it, Yacov? My shoulders? Are you sick? Like you said, I'm not Jewish so I can pretty much dress how I'd like... my picture though was just fine and I was beautiful. I could see if I were half naked. What did you expect though.... a Quaker dress, Yacov?
You are not Jewish but this is a Jewish forum and we don't allow immodest pictures on here.
I wasn't naked, Yacov.You are the only person who had a problem with it. There was nothing immodest about my picture. You're just a sad individual.
Immodest pictures include showing below the neck line, short skirts or dresses (That don't cover below the knees.), and if the arms are showing too much (Strictly speaking, nothing above the elbows should show although some people are less strict and only say to cover the shoulders.).
My dress was floor length, Yacov.
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I removed Imerica's prom picture because it was immodest.
What was immodest about it, Yacov? My shoulders? Are you sick? Like you said, I'm not Jewish so I can pretty much dress how I'd like... my picture though was just fine and I was beautiful. I could see if I were half naked. What did you expect though.... a Quaker dress, Yacov?
You are not Jewish but this is a Jewish forum and we don't allow immodest pictures on here.
I wasn't naked, Yacov.You are the only person who had a problem with it. There was nothing immodest about my picture. You're just a sad individual.
Immodest pictures include showing below the neck line, short skirts or dresses (That don't cover below the knees.), and if the arms are showing too much (Strictly speaking, nothing above the elbows should show although some people are less strict and only say to cover the shoulders.).
My dress was floor length, Yacov.
But you were showing below the neck line. I couldn't even see the bottom of your dress. If you have a problem with the rules of this forum, you are free to leave.
So I was supposed to show the entire dress? I was showing my shoulders...shoulders, Yacov. That wasn't a Playboy Playmate shot...it was SHOULDERS. If you are threatened by shoulders on a woman, you have some real issues, Yacov.
HOWEVER, I'll respect the forum and never post a picture of my shoulders again.
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Anyone want to see my shoulders? Their nice and hairy.
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Anyone want to see my shoulders? Their nice and hairy.
lol
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Anyone want to see my shoulders? Their nice and hairy.
Oh Cohen you say the sexist things :::D :::D
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I removed Imerica's prom picture because it was immodest.
What was immodest about it, Yacov? My shoulders? Are you sick? Like you said, I'm not Jewish so I can pretty much dress how I'd like... my picture though was just fine and I was beautiful. I could see if I were half naked. What did you expect though.... a Quaker dress, Yacov?
Damn I ever saw it, Erica can you show me in a PM thanks O0
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Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
In a word, no. There is no obligation for Jews at these proms to dance or dress immodestly, what is the problem with Jews attending social events and having a good time?
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I removed Imerica's prom picture because it was immodest.
What was immodest about it, Yacov? My shoulders? Are you sick? Like you said, I'm not Jewish so I can pretty much dress how I'd like... my picture though was just fine and I was beautiful. I could see if I were half naked. What did you expect though.... a Quaker dress, Yacov?
Damn I ever saw it, Erica can you show me in a PM thanks O0
Sure, Skippy...it's on it's way. :)
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I removed Imerica's prom picture because it was immodest.
What was immodest about it, Yacov? My shoulders? Are you sick? Like you said, I'm not Jewish so I can pretty much dress how I'd like... my picture though was just fine and I was beautiful. I could see if I were half naked. What did you expect though.... a Quaker dress, Yacov?
You are not Jewish but this is a Jewish forum and we don't allow immodest pictures on here.
I wasn't naked, Yacov.You are the only person who had a problem with it. There was nothing immodest about my picture. You're just a sad individual.
Immodest pictures include showing below the neck line, short skirts or dresses (That don't cover below the knees.), and if the arms are showing too much (Strictly speaking, nothing above the elbows should show although some people are less strict and only say to cover the shoulders.).
My dress was floor length, Yacov.
But you were showing below the neck line. I couldn't even see the bottom of your dress. If you have a problem with the rules of this forum, you are free to leave.
So I was supposed to show the entire dress? I was showing my shoulders...shoulders, Yacov. That wasn't a Playboy Playmate shot...it was SHOULDERS. If you are threatened by shoulders on a woman, you have some real issues, Yacov.
HOWEVER, I'll respect the forum and never post a picture of my shoulders again.
Can you read? I wasn't complaining about not showing the entire dress. I was only complaining that the dress didn't cover your shoulders.
I read very well and like I said they are SHOULDERS. I'm not showing ANYTHING ELSE...and about the length of the dress... you can actually see how long the dress is in the photo. The photo cut the dress off at mid calf...it was floor length.
*I miss that size...I mean dress...* LOL
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I removed Imerica's prom picture because it was immodest.
What was immodest about it, Yacov? My shoulders? Are you sick? Like you said, I'm not Jewish so I can pretty much dress how I'd like... my picture though was just fine and I was beautiful. I could see if I were half naked. What did you expect though.... a Quaker dress, Yacov?
Damn I ever saw it, Erica can you show me in a PM thanks O0
Sure, Skippy...it's on it's way. :)
Very nice love the colour and very cute the fella had a bow tie to match O0
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I don't have a problem with it but it's not for me to decide whether it is immodest or not. It is for Halacha to decide and I think it might be showing too much neckline according to Halacha.
I know what Halacha says I was only interested in your personal opinion, thank you :)
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Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
In a word, no. There is no obligation for Jews at these proms to dance or dress immodestly, what is the problem with Jews attending social events and having a good time?
You are not Jewish. Who gave you the authority to decide Jewish Law?
There is nothing wrong with attending social events. The problem is that men and women dancing together is immodest, period. Men aren't even supposed to see women dancing among women because it is immodest to see the form of a woman dancing. That is why the mechitza at a Jewish wedding is not made so you can see through it but the mechitza in a synagogue is made with wholes where the women can look across and see the men praying. The second is fine as long as the men don't stare at the women through the wholes. It's just meant to keep a separation between the genders.
This is my Gentile point of view, your question by using the word "Should" is implying that you are inviting all points of view, and this is mine. I simply can't believe that dancing is immodest! Is going to watch the ballet forbidden? Social events are, by definition, social, and I would say that it is morally wrong for Jews to be forbidden from mixing with Gentiles on account of this. However, this is coming from my position as a Gentile (as I cannot see why this is immodest) and I respect your views, even though I would disagree with them.
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Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
In a word, no. There is no obligation for Jews at these proms to dance or dress immodestly, what is the problem with Jews attending social events and having a good time?
You are not Jewish. Who gave you the authority to decide Jewish Law?
There is nothing wrong with attending social events. The problem is that men and women dancing together is immodest, period. Men aren't even supposed to see women dancing among women because it is immodest to see the form of a woman dancing. That is why the mechitza at a Jewish wedding is not made so you can see through it but the mechitza in a synagogue is made with wholes where the women can look across and see the men praying. The second is fine as long as the men don't stare at the women through the wholes. It's just meant to keep a separation between the genders.
This is my Gentile point of view, your question by using the word "Should" is implying that you are inviting all points of view, and this is mine. I simply can't believe that dancing is immodest! Is going to watch the ballet forbidden? Social events are, by definition, social, and I would say that it is morally wrong for Jews to be forbidden from mixing with Gentiles on account of this. However, this is coming from my position as a Gentile (as I cannot see why this is immodest) and I respect your views, even though I would disagree with them.
Ballet should be forbidden its boring as watching paint dry. :(
But I agree with your point the dance is social, and 95% of the time you are chatting with friends anyway.
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I have been accoused of making "silly" topics on the forum. Yakov, YOU MAKE SILLY TOPICS like these.
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Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
In a word, no. There is no obligation for Jews at these proms to dance or dress immodestly, what is the problem with Jews attending social events and having a good time?
You are not Jewish. Who gave you the authority to decide Jewish Law?
There is nothing wrong with attending social events. The problem is that men and women dancing together is immodest, period. Men aren't even supposed to see women dancing among women because it is immodest to see the form of a woman dancing. That is why the mechitza at a Jewish wedding is not made so you can see through it but the mechitza in a synagogue is made with wholes where the women can look across and see the men praying. The second is fine as long as the men don't stare at the women through the wholes. It's just meant to keep a separation between the genders.
This is my Gentile point of view, your question by using the word "Should" is implying that you are inviting all points of view, and this is mine. I simply can't believe that dancing is immodest! Is going to watch the ballet forbidden? Social events are, by definition, social, and I would say that it is morally wrong for Jews to be forbidden from mixing with Gentiles on account of this. However, this is coming from my position as a Gentile (as I cannot see why this is immodest) and I respect your views, even though I would disagree with them.
Jews who marry Gentiles have no place in The World To Come. Jews who do that are traitors. You are NOT going to come in here and say that Jewish beliefs are morally wrong. You are being like FTF and his attack on The Talmud.
Marriage ? where did you read that? I have missed something, I am sure he is only talking about a school dance.
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god help you if you saw what my date wore to Sr. Prom... all i can say is less than a yard of fabric... ;D
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He said it is morally wrong to forbid Jews and Gentiles from mixing. If the mixing he is talking about is inter-religious gender mixing, Judaism and JTF are completely against this. It is okay to be friends with Gentiles but doing anything that is immodest for men and women to do together and on top of that to do it with a Gentile is absolutely forbidden.
I did not take Mixing as "mixing" more of being social together as friends.
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Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
In a word, no. There is no obligation for Jews at these proms to dance or dress immodestly, what is the problem with Jews attending social events and having a good time?
You are not Jewish. Who gave you the authority to decide Jewish Law?
There is nothing wrong with attending social events. The problem is that men and women dancing together is immodest, period. Men aren't even supposed to see women dancing among women because it is immodest to see the form of a woman dancing. That is why the mechitza at a Jewish wedding is not made so you can see through it but the mechitza in a synagogue is made with wholes where the women can look across and see the men praying. The second is fine as long as the men don't stare at the women through the wholes. It's just meant to keep a separation between the genders.
This is my Gentile point of view, your question by using the word "Should" is implying that you are inviting all points of view, and this is mine. I simply can't believe that dancing is immodest! Is going to watch the ballet forbidden? Social events are, by definition, social, and I would say that it is morally wrong for Jews to be forbidden from mixing with Gentiles on account of this. However, this is coming from my position as a Gentile (as I cannot see why this is immodest) and I respect your views, even though I would disagree with them.
Jews who marry Gentiles have no place in The World To Come. Jews who do that are traitors. You are NOT going to come in here and say that Jewish beliefs are morally wrong. You are being like FTF and his attack on The Talmud.
Getting a little ahead of yourself, aren't you Yacov? No one said that Jewish beliefs are morally wrong or wrong in any sense. I respect Jewish law...I just find it really annoying that someone would want to ban a social gathering because of fear of someone having fun, God forbid. If it's not your cup of tea, don't go to any of these gatherings. Don't dance with a female. Don't LOOK at a female. Just don't tell others how to run their lives.
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If many things aren't permitted in the prom it's fine, in other words "righteous prom"
Most proms are immoral and can be vulgar, depending on the school and what not
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If many things aren't permitted in the prom it's fine, in other words "righteous prom"
Most proms are immoral and can be vulgar, depending on the school and what not
I don't think we're talking Jewish prom here. I think that dancing is innocent, dressing up and feeling like royalty for an evening is innocent , and even interdancing. I respect your culture and your religion but I admit, I'd have a hard time giving up things from the culture I'm in if I were to convert to Judaism. I LOVE dancing with my husband and in a group of men and women. I LOVE wearing clothes that are feminine but don't show anything off..but I love having the freedom to choose a lot better. I also love PDA (Public Displays of Affection). (I'm not talking about sex on the beach or anything but people who wouldn't mind someone else seeing how in love and dedicated to their spouse or significant other they are. )
I'm glad we're all different. Otherwise conversations like these would not only be one-dimensional but not much fun at all.
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
Why do u keep wanting to ban things? Serriously grow up. It looks like u want to infringe on alot of our civil liberties, and be "big brother"
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He said it is morally wrong to forbid Jews and Gentiles from mixing. If the mixing he is talking about is inter-religious gender mixing, Judaism and JTF are completely against this. It is okay to be friends with Gentiles but doing anything that is immodest for men and women to do together and on top of that to do it with a Gentile is absolutely forbidden.
I did not take Mixing as "mixing" more of being social together as friends.
Then it should not involve dancing.
Did I say it did, you can still enjoy peoples company without dancing.
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If many things aren't permitted in the prom it's fine, in other words "righteous prom"
Most proms are immoral and can be vulgar, depending on the school and what not
I don't think we're talking Jewish prom here. I think that dancing is innocent, dressing up and feeling like royalty for an evening is innocent , and even interdancing. I respect your culture and your religion but I admit, I'd have a hard time giving up things from the culture I'm in if I were to convert to Judaism. I LOVE dancing with my husband and in a group of men and women. I LOVE wearing clothes that are feminine but don't show anything off..but I love having the freedom to choose a lot better. I also love PDA (Public Displays of Affection). (I'm not talking about sex on the beach or anything but people who wouldn't mind someone else seeing how in love and dedicated to their spouse or significant other they are. )
I'm glad we're all different. Otherwise conversations like these would not only be one-dimensional but not much fun at all.
Erica, you have essentially accepted on principle this movement believes in...No One World... If we all had the same religion and same this and same that and one country, it woudl be a very one dimensional world. On a smaller scale you have always known that...
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NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!
And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.
I agree - Yakov, cheerup dude !!! You need a woman in your life to make you wanna celebrate these great moments.
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If many things aren't permitted in the prom it's fine, in other words "righteous prom"
Most proms are immoral and can be vulgar, depending on the school and what not
I think its culture that allows them to be immoral, if the culture is created to allow such behavour then its one that can't be promoted.
Every school dance or social we call them, I have been too we all had a good clean time ( I have been to around 5).
Its a little worrying that alot of you seem to be in areas of unacceptable social standards.
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If many things aren't permitted in the prom it's fine, in other words "righteous prom"
Most proms are immoral and can be vulgar, depending on the school and what not
I don't think we're talking Jewish prom here. I think that dancing is innocent, dressing up and feeling like royalty for an evening is innocent , and even interdancing. I respect your culture and your religion but I admit, I'd have a hard time giving up things from the culture I'm in if I were to convert to Judaism. I LOVE dancing with my husband and in a group of men and women. I LOVE wearing clothes that are feminine but don't show anything off..but I love having the freedom to choose a lot better. I also love PDA (Public Displays of Affection). (I'm not talking about sex on the beach or anything but people who wouldn't mind someone else seeing how in love and dedicated to their spouse or significant other they are. )
I'm glad we're all different. Otherwise conversations like these would not only be one-dimensional but not much fun at all.
Erica, you have essentially accepted on principle this movement believes in...No One World... If we all had the same religion and same this and same that and one country, it woudl be a very one dimensional world. On a smaller scale you have always known that...
That's actually always been my mantra. I've ALWAYS accepted other religions and different cultures of people because everyone SHOULD be respected for what they stand for and for the positivity they bring to the world. The one thing I'm against is bashing colors of other's skin, comparing people to monkeys, and bullying good people. Say what you will about those who aren't productive and constantly start trouble...just don't doubt that there is good in every culture.
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That's actually always been my mantra. I've ALWAYS accepted other religions and different cultures of people because everyone SHOULD be respected for what they stand for and for the positivity they bring to the world. The one thing I'm against is bashing colors of other's skin, comparing people to monkeys, and bullying good people. Say what you will about those who aren't productive and constantly start trouble...just don't doubt that there is good in every culture.
Maybe JTF can learn a few things from Erica.
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That's actually always been my mantra. I've ALWAYS accepted other religions and different cultures of people because everyone SHOULD be respected for what they stand for and for the positivity they bring to the world. The one thing I'm against is bashing colors of other's skin, comparing people to monkeys, and bullying good people. Say what you will about those who aren't productive and constantly start trouble...just don't doubt that there is good in every culture.
Maybe JTF can learn a few things from Erica.
Agreed O0
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Yacov, I don't see anything wrong with proms. I think many evening dresses could be more modest. I personally don't like to expose my arms at all. But that's just me. (My mother says I dress like a grandmother/nun.) Also, if the dancing is modest (as opposed to grinding against one another) I think it's fine. These are social events where young people can meet and socialize with one another.
Now if you really have a problem with mixed dancing, you have the option of either not going to a regular prom, or organizing a special Orthodox Jewish prom where the young men and women dance separately. All this talk of banning sounds rather extreme.
Finally, I don't think Nic meant any disrespect. He was just writing about his perspective on the whole prom thing. So please go easy on him.
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I've never been to a prom, but I thought they were to celebrate the end of high school -- kind of like a graduation party.
Would you go to a prom if it was on week night?
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Yakov, please stop with these topics.
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I personally have no problems with proms as long as their are no interracial dates and of course no muzzies.
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Would you go to a prom if it was on week night?
No. I always thought the idea of proms were Non-Jewish. I said Israel is our homeland and we don't need to adopt American customs such as proms.
Of course
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Proms are not Jewish. Nor are they Christain or any other religion. Proms have nothing to do with religion or religiousity. This poll is absolutely pointless. Yakov's polls keep getting more and more preposterous.
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Yacov, I am sure secular people in Israel have their equivalents of proms hehe. I don't think proms are anything bad as long as their isnt anything going on that I described in my last post. Of course if a gay couple decides to come to the prom, they should be skinned to the bone.
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Yacov, I am sure secular people in Israel have their equivalents of proms hehe. I don't think proms are anything bad as long as their isnt anything going on that I described in my last post. Of course if a gay couple decides to come to the prom, they should be skinned to the bone.
:o
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In Israel people just go to dance clubs and dance to horrible loud noise.
I hate that too Yacov!
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Well I guess we just have to differ on this. I don't think their is anything wrong with proms or things of that nature. Lets look at the bright side that these people arent gay. So many people are queer these days so we have to take what we get.
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Ya know, I'm now reminded of a great line from Ferris Bueller's Day Off where Ferris says, "Cameron is so tight, you can take a lump of coal and shove it up his butt and in a week you'd have a diamond." I'm now thinking we should take this line and replace "Cameron" with "Yakov."
There's a big difference between being righteous and being puritanistic! I think all these polls are an outlet for his latent feelings of misogyny and social insecurities.
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In Israel people just go to dance clubs and dance to horrible loud noise.
You mean techno music? Yeah a lot of queers go there and have pacifiers in their mouth.
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Yacov is not a misogynist.
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Ya know, I'm now reminded of a great line from Ferris Bueller's Day Off where Ferris says, "Cameron is so tight, you can take a lump of coal and shove it up his butt and in a week you'd have a diamond." I'm now thinking we should take this line and replace "Cameron" with "Yakov."
There's a big difference between being righteous and being puritanistic! I think all these polls are an outlet for his latent feelings of misogyny and social insecurities.
:::D
Tight? Maybe. Misogynist? No.
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Yacov is not a misogynist.
Perhaps that's not the best word. But he has posted polls proposing banning everything from eyeliner and makeup to dancing in public. Perhaps that's not misogyny. I suppose that's just the "Jewish way."
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Yacov is not a misogynist.
Perhaps that's not the best word. But he has posted polls proposing banning everything from eyeliner and makeup to dancing in public. Perhaps that's not misogyny. I suppose that's just the "Jewish way."
Ban banning threads, and muslims.
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Yacov is not a misogynist.
Perhaps that's not the best word. But he has posted polls proposing banning everything from eyeliner and makeup to dancing in public. Perhaps that's not misogyny. I suppose that's just the "Jewish way."
Ban banning threads, and muslims.
So you want me to make a poll asking if Muslims should be banned? ;D
Sure, if only Muslims can simply be banned by posting a poll. The Muslims all over the world will see our polls and say, "Hey, if the JTF polls say we've gotta be banned, who are we to object?" which will then be followed by them severing their own heads off screaming "Allah Akh *gurgle gurgle glub* bar!"
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Yacov is not a misogynist.
I agree 100% with you Lisa O0
I am not quite sure how someone would think that of him :-\
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In Israel people just go to dance clubs and dance to horrible loud noise.
I hate that too Yacov!
Dance clubs/night clubs are only "sexual" and completely immoral and abominable
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
Why do u keep wanting to ban things? Serriously grow up. It looks like u want to infringe on alot of our civil liberties, and be "big brother"
Aren't you a religious Jew? Would Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef whom you love so much approve of immodest male-female relations?
Yes I am a religious Jew. But I wont force religion on someone by banning something that they want to do. Ill tell them its wrong, but if they dont listen I wont stop them. Kiruv 101, dont force anything on anyone, let them realize with time what is wrong and right. And I dont understand, are you a fully practicing Jew? If you arent, then how would you like it if I came to your home on Shabbat and took your Television away, or something that you want to do on Shabbat but is Asur? You explain clearly why it is Asur, then if they dont want to do it you let it go, and slowly, gradually, hopefully they will become Jewish, through understanding, and philosophy. This is a problem that I have with some of the Kiruv Yeshivot, the ones that take troubled kids after high school. They either force it on the kid and he follows the rules, but then when he leaves Yeshiva after a year he is back to how he was before. Judaism isnt a dictatorship, or a cult. We dont ban things, let people not do them on their own. It may take time and understanding, but eventually they will realize the truth. And it isnt a cult either. We dont brainwash someone to become religious, he should realize it eventully no matter how long it takes. Rambam writes that you have to keep on trying to help you fellow Jew become more observant through talking nicely, and soft to him, not by yelling at him and embarrasing him.
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Ya know, I'm now reminded of a great line from Ferris Bueller's Day Off where Ferris says, "Cameron is so tight, you can take a lump of coal and shove it up his butt and in a week you'd have a diamond." I'm now thinking we should take this line and replace "Cameron" with "Yakov."
There's a big difference between being righteous and being puritanistic! I think all these polls are an outlet for his latent feelings of misogyny and social insecurities.
Despite this whole thread, Yaacov is a good kid...
These views however are very Puritanical. I wouldn't mind an 80 year old man saying what Yaacov says..but a 20 something year old says to me what you said. I used to think similar to Yaacov when I was maybe 18-19 years old.
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In Israel people just go to dance clubs and dance to horrible loud noise.
I hate that too Yacov!
Dance clubs/night clubs are only "sexual" and completely immoral and abominable
Thats around 3am :::D
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In Israel people just go to dance clubs and dance to horrible loud noise.
I hate that too Yacov!
Dance clubs/night clubs are only "sexual" and completely immoral and abominable
That's not true, FTF. lol Dance clubs/ night clubs don't equal brothels. There are people who actually go to dance clubs JUST TO DANCE. Now if we were talking Strip clubs, I'd agree 100%.
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I used to think similar to Yaacov when I was maybe 18-19 years old.
So you didn't go to the prom when you were 18?
I did go to the prom...but it wasn't in a limo or anythign fancy shmancy..I didn't kiss girls or hook up with them..I didn't do drugs...nor ever will..I never drank...
But I looked down on anyone that had a good time and didn't focus on their studies and on their future. I made my personal life a little more puritanical...And I look back and I regret that I didn't loosen up..BUT...at the same time, am very happy that I didn't go hooking up wtih random girls and smoke and drink etc etc. I'm glad that I focused on my studies...and generally people who get to know me like what I'm made out of and not a total degenerate loser like the rest of the people who smoked pot in my highschool.
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Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
In a word, no. There is no obligation for Jews at these proms to dance or dress immodestly, what is the problem with Jews attending social events and having a good time?
You are not Jewish. Who gave you the authority to decide Jewish Law?
There is nothing wrong with attending social events. The problem is that men and women dancing together is immodest, period. Men aren't even supposed to see women dancing among women because it is immodest to see the form of a woman dancing. That is why the mechitza at a Jewish wedding is not made so you can see through it but the mechitza in a synagogue is made with wholes where the women can look across and see the men praying. The second is fine as long as the men don't stare at the women through the wholes. It's just meant to keep a separation between the genders.
This is my Gentile point of view, your question by using the word "Should" is implying that you are inviting all points of view, and this is mine. I simply can't believe that dancing is immodest! Is going to watch the ballet forbidden? Social events are, by definition, social, and I would say that it is morally wrong for Jews to be forbidden from mixing with Gentiles on account of this. However, this is coming from my position as a Gentile (as I cannot see why this is immodest) and I respect your views, even though I would disagree with them.
Jews who marry Gentiles have no place in The World To Come. Jews who do that are traitors. You are NOT going to come in here and say that Jewish beliefs are morally wrong. You are being like FTF and his attack on The Talmud.
I did not mention marriage at all. The context I said was social mixing. Who are you to stop Jews mixing with Gentiles in a social way. I too am opposed to Jews marrying Gentiles, because I believe Judaism's rules on this should be respected. However I cannot see how male-female dancing is bad at all. And I don't see how dancing with someone of the opposite sex (provided it is not immodest) is bad, even between Jew and Gentile if there is nothing sexual going with it.
Also please can you answer my question on ballet. Is it wrong for Jews to watch ballet, in your opinion, Yacov?
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We never had them, but who cares, its not a religious thing, of course Jews should go.
I only went to once "dance" in my lifetime and it was from Hebrew School. I didn't have a good time anyway because all the girls had dates so I had no one to dance with anyway.
I went to my prom without a date, ended up going with my friend and his date. I was very shy to dance with girls then anyway.
My mother's pastor is VERY stringent against dancing. Which my mother has a problem with because she loves swing dancing hehe
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All our events are girls only, a lot more fun. No smelly boys to ruin it. :)
That's a positive part of Nazi Islam, the modesty. But it is still a death cult.
Even at events that aren't just muslims Yacov. I have christian cousins, and they're modest too.
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All our events are girls only, a lot more fun. No smelly boys to ruin it. :)
That's a positive part of Nazi Islam, the modesty. But it is still a death cult.
Even at events that aren't just muslims Yacov. I have christian cousins, and they're modest too.
Are they Right Wing Christians? Maybe they would like JTF.
Not really, just practicing Christians.
Yacov, how about when the person sticks their hand out first would you refuse it if they were attractive?
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Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
In a word, no. There is no obligation for Jews at these proms to dance or dress immodestly, what is the problem with Jews attending social events and having a good time?
You are not Jewish. Who gave you the authority to decide Jewish Law?
There is nothing wrong with attending social events. The problem is that men and women dancing together is immodest, period. Men aren't even supposed to see women dancing among women because it is immodest to see the form of a woman dancing. That is why the mechitza at a Jewish wedding is not made so you can see through it but the mechitza in a synagogue is made with wholes where the women can look across and see the men praying. The second is fine as long as the men don't stare at the women through the wholes. It's just meant to keep a separation between the genders.
This is my Gentile point of view, your question by using the word "Should" is implying that you are inviting all points of view, and this is mine. I simply can't believe that dancing is immodest! Is going to watch the ballet forbidden? Social events are, by definition, social, and I would say that it is morally wrong for Jews to be forbidden from mixing with Gentiles on account of this. However, this is coming from my position as a Gentile (as I cannot see why this is immodest) and I respect your views, even though I would disagree with them.
Jews who marry Gentiles have no place in The World To Come. Jews who do that are traitors. You are NOT going to come in here and say that Jewish beliefs are morally wrong. You are being like FTF and his attack on The Talmud.
I did not mention marriage at all. The context I said was social mixing. Who are you to stop Jews mixing with Gentiles in a social way. I too am opposed to Jews marrying Gentiles, because I believe Judaism's rules on this should be respected. However I cannot see how male-female dancing is bad at all. And I don't see how dancing with someone of the opposite sex (provided it is not immodest) is bad, even between Jew and Gentile if there is nothing sexual going with it.
Also please can you answer my question on ballet. Is it wrong for Jews to watch ballet, in your opinion, Yacov?
Dancing with a woman is sexual in Judaism so it should not be done with anyone except between a husband and wife in private.
When I was immodest, I just wanted to dance with women so I could hug them. If you're married, you can always hug your wife so it wouldn't be a big deal to dance with a woman. Anything involving hugging, dancing, or kissing should not be done between a Jew and Gentile of the opposite gender. The most lenient position is that it is okay to shake hands and that is what Chaim holds by and what Rabbi Kahane held by. I am more strict and wouldn't want to shake hands with an attractive women because I am a man and it is immodest. Chaim's sister holds by the more strict position and doesn't shake hands with men at all.
OK, thanks for clearing that up :)
Out of interest, why is it immodest in Judaism, and why is shaking hands immodest?
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In Israel people just go to dance clubs and dance to horrible loud noise.
I hate that too Yacov!
Dance clubs/night clubs are only "sexual" and completely immoral and abominable
That's not true, FTF. lol Dance clubs/ night clubs don't equal brothels. There are people who actually go to dance clubs JUST TO DANCE. Now if we were talking Strip clubs, I'd agree 100%.
My brother dated a stripper, she was really a nice person, but never sleep with the clients. Funny thing was she was short and well a little fat, but earnt 1500 a week. :o
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All our events are girls only, a lot more fun. No smelly boys to ruin it. :)
That's a positive part of Nazi Islam, the modesty. But it is still a death cult.
Even at events that aren't just Muslims Yacov. I have Christian cousins, and they're modest too.
Are they Right Wing Christians? Maybe they would like JTF.
Not really, just practicing Christians.
Yacov, how about when the person sticks their hand out first would you refuse it if they were attractive?
My cousin in Israel kissed everyone in the room and asked if it was okay to shake my hand because she knows I don't like people to kiss me and I said it wasn't okay because she's a woman.
I used to kiss my cousins when i greeted them too, boys but my mum told me it wasn't good so now i just punch them on the shoulder and dash away to escape it.
My non related uncles don't shake my hand either, just nod.
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In Israel people just go to dance clubs and dance to horrible loud noise.
I hate that too Yacov!
Dance clubs/night clubs are only "sexual" and completely immoral and abominable
That's not true, FTF. lol Dance clubs/ night clubs don't equal brothels. There are people who actually go to dance clubs JUST TO DANCE. Now if we were talking Strip clubs, I'd agree 100%.
My brother dated a stripper, she was really a nice person, but never sleep with the clients. Funny thing was she was short and well a little fat, but earnt 1500 a week. :o
That's a lot of money. :o
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Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
In a word, no. There is no obligation for Jews at these proms to dance or dress immodestly, what is the problem with Jews attending social events and having a good time?
You are not Jewish. Who gave you the authority to decide Jewish Law?
There is nothing wrong with attending social events. The problem is that men and women dancing together is immodest, period. Men aren't even supposed to see women dancing among women because it is immodest to see the form of a woman dancing. That is why the mechitza at a Jewish wedding is not made so you can see through it but the mechitza in a synagogue is made with wholes where the women can look across and see the men praying. The second is fine as long as the men don't stare at the women through the wholes. It's just meant to keep a separation between the genders.
This is my Gentile point of view, your question by using the word "Should" is implying that you are inviting all points of view, and this is mine. I simply can't believe that dancing is immodest! Is going to watch the ballet forbidden? Social events are, by definition, social, and I would say that it is morally wrong for Jews to be forbidden from mixing with Gentiles on account of this. However, this is coming from my position as a Gentile (as I cannot see why this is immodest) and I respect your views, even though I would disagree with them.
Jews who marry Gentiles have no place in The World To Come. Jews who do that are traitors. You are NOT going to come in here and say that Jewish beliefs are morally wrong. You are being like FTF and his attack on The Talmud.
I did not mention marriage at all. The context I said was social mixing. Who are you to stop Jews mixing with Gentiles in a social way. I too am opposed to Jews marrying Gentiles, because I believe Judaism's rules on this should be respected. However I cannot see how male-female dancing is bad at all. And I don't see how dancing with someone of the opposite sex (provided it is not immodest) is bad, even between Jew and Gentile if there is nothing sexual going with it.
Also please can you answer my question on ballet. Is it wrong for Jews to watch ballet, in your opinion, Yacov?
Dancing with a woman is sexual in Judaism so it should not be done with anyone except between a husband and wife in private.
When I was immodest, I just wanted to dance with women so I could hug them. If you're married, you can always hug your wife so it wouldn't be a big deal to dance with a woman. Anything involving hugging, dancing, or kissing should not be done between a Jew and Gentile of the opposite gender. The most lenient position is that it is okay to shake hands and that is what Chaim holds by and what Rabbi Kahane held by. I am more strict and wouldn't want to shake hands with an attractive women because I am a man and it is immodest. Chaim's sister holds by the more strict position and doesn't shake hands with men at all.
OK, thanks for clearing that up :)
Out of interest, why is it immodest in Judaism, and why is shaking hands immodest?
It is immodest because men are attracted to women and when men touch a woman, he can feel a sexual feeling if the woman is attractive. It's even worse because it can lead to more.
That's not true for everyone, Yacov.
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Erica, Yacov and Chaim's response would probably be that you wouldn't want to risk it anyway. (However, Chaim does shake hands with women. Yacov doesn't.)
Here's how I understand the whole issue of touch. If men and women don't go around casually touching each other, then when they are with their spouses, it will be all the more special.
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Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
In a word, no. There is no obligation for Jews at these proms to dance or dress immodestly, what is the problem with Jews attending social events and having a good time?
You are not Jewish. Who gave you the authority to decide Jewish Law?
There is nothing wrong with attending social events. The problem is that men and women dancing together is immodest, period. Men aren't even supposed to see women dancing among women because it is immodest to see the form of a woman dancing. That is why the mechitza at a Jewish wedding is not made so you can see through it but the mechitza in a synagogue is made with wholes where the women can look across and see the men praying. The second is fine as long as the men don't stare at the women through the wholes. It's just meant to keep a separation between the genders.
This is my Gentile point of view, your question by using the word "Should" is implying that you are inviting all points of view, and this is mine. I simply can't believe that dancing is immodest! Is going to watch the ballet forbidden? Social events are, by definition, social, and I would say that it is morally wrong for Jews to be forbidden from mixing with Gentiles on account of this. However, this is coming from my position as a Gentile (as I cannot see why this is immodest) and I respect your views, even though I would disagree with them.
Jews who marry Gentiles have no place in The World To Come. Jews who do that are traitors. You are NOT going to come in here and say that Jewish beliefs are morally wrong. You are being like FTF and his attack on The Talmud.
I did not mention marriage at all. The context I said was social mixing. Who are you to stop Jews mixing with Gentiles in a social way. I too am opposed to Jews marrying Gentiles, because I believe Judaism's rules on this should be respected. However I cannot see how male-female dancing is bad at all. And I don't see how dancing with someone of the opposite sex (provided it is not immodest) is bad, even between Jew and Gentile if there is nothing sexual going with it.
Also please can you answer my question on ballet. Is it wrong for Jews to watch ballet, in your opinion, Yacov?
Dancing with a woman is sexual in Judaism so it should not be done with anyone except between a husband and wife in private.
When I was immodest, I just wanted to dance with women so I could hug them. If you're married, you can always hug your wife so it wouldn't be a big deal to dance with a woman. Anything involving hugging, dancing, or kissing should not be done between a Jew and Gentile of the opposite gender. The most lenient position is that it is okay to shake hands and that is what Chaim holds by and what Rabbi Kahane held by. I am more strict and wouldn't want to shake hands with an attractive women because I am a man and it is immodest. Chaim's sister holds by the more strict position and doesn't shake hands with men at all.
OK, thanks for clearing that up :)
Out of interest, why is it immodest in Judaism, and why is shaking hands immodest?
It is immodest because men are attracted to women and when men touch a woman, he can feel a sexual feeling if the woman is attractive. It's even worse because it can lead to more.
Thank you for that answer, Yacov. This is something about which I know very little. How is it bad that people feel sexual feelings? Surely being attracted to someone is SUPPOSED to lead to more, such as getting to know them and marriage.
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Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
In a word, no. There is no obligation for Jews at these proms to dance or dress immodestly, what is the problem with Jews attending social events and having a good time?
You are not Jewish. Who gave you the authority to decide Jewish Law?
There is nothing wrong with attending social events. The problem is that men and women dancing together is immodest, period. Men aren't even supposed to see women dancing among women because it is immodest to see the form of a woman dancing. That is why the mechitza at a Jewish wedding is not made so you can see through it but the mechitza in a synagogue is made with wholes where the women can look across and see the men praying. The second is fine as long as the men don't stare at the women through the wholes. It's just meant to keep a separation between the genders.
This is my Gentile point of view, your question by using the word "Should" is implying that you are inviting all points of view, and this is mine. I simply can't believe that dancing is immodest! Is going to watch the ballet forbidden? Social events are, by definition, social, and I would say that it is morally wrong for Jews to be forbidden from mixing with Gentiles on account of this. However, this is coming from my position as a Gentile (as I cannot see why this is immodest) and I respect your views, even though I would disagree with them.
Jews who marry Gentiles have no place in The World To Come. Jews who do that are traitors. You are NOT going to come in here and say that Jewish beliefs are morally wrong. You are being like FTF and his attack on The Talmud.
I did not mention marriage at all. The context I said was social mixing. Who are you to stop Jews mixing with Gentiles in a social way. I too am opposed to Jews marrying Gentiles, because I believe Judaism's rules on this should be respected. However I cannot see how male-female dancing is bad at all. And I don't see how dancing with someone of the opposite sex (provided it is not immodest) is bad, even between Jew and Gentile if there is nothing sexual going with it.
Also please can you answer my question on ballet. Is it wrong for Jews to watch ballet, in your opinion, Yacov?
Dancing with a woman is sexual in Judaism so it should not be done with anyone except between a husband and wife in private.
When I was immodest, I just wanted to dance with women so I could hug them. If you're married, you can always hug your wife so it wouldn't be a big deal to dance with a woman. Anything involving hugging, dancing, or kissing should not be done between a Jew and Gentile of the opposite gender. The most lenient position is that it is okay to shake hands and that is what Chaim holds by and what Rabbi Kahane held by. I am more strict and wouldn't want to shake hands with an attractive women because I am a man and it is immodest. Chaim's sister holds by the more strict position and doesn't shake hands with men at all.
OK, thanks for clearing that up :)
Out of interest, why is it immodest in Judaism, and why is shaking hands immodest?
It is immodest because men are attracted to women and when men touch a woman, he can feel a sexual feeling if the woman is attractive. It's even worse because it can lead to more.
That's not true for everyone, Yacov.
Also, you said its not true for everyone. Even if it isn't it would be for some and you can't have a kind of ruling for one person and not for another.
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With the amount of wrongful temptation currently corrupting the minds of all youth, it might possibly be a good idea if none of them attended their "prom", but instead stayed at home and spent some time contemplating the differences between good and evil. And the money that they'll save by NOT going to their prom can be put into a responsible savings program that has the ability to mature as they mature, so in the long run it will be to their best benefit--- Sure, my ideas might seem a bit "strict" and/or "conservative" to some reading these sacred message board pages, but let's get one thing perfectly clear and out in the open---We are fighting a "war of morality"--- in order for our youth to have any chance whatsoever of "winning" this "war", they must buckle down and make the choices that don't necessarily offer them the "instant gratification" that they might be recklessly seeking, but it will afford them the chance to make the best of their lives for the "long term"... Any questions?...
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I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.
I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.
Why do u keep wanting to ban things? Serriously grow up. It looks like u want to infringe on alot of our civil liberties, and be "big brother"
Aren't you a religious Jew? Would Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef whom you love so much approve of immodest male-female relations?
Yes I am a religious Jew. But I wont force religion on someone by banning something that they want to do. Ill tell them its wrong, but if they dont listen I wont stop them. Kiruv 101, dont force anything on anyone, let them realize with time what is wrong and right. And I dont understand, are you a fully practicing Jew? If you arent, then how would you like it if I came to your home on Shabbat and took your Television away, or something that you want to do on Shabbat but is Asur? You explain clearly why it is Asur, then if they dont want to do it you let it go, and slowly, gradually, hopefully they will become Jewish, through understanding, and philosophy. This is a problem that I have with some of the Kiruv Yeshivot, the ones that take troubled kids after high school. They either force it on the kid and he follows the rules, but then when he leaves Yeshiva after a year he is back to how he was before. Judaism isnt a dictatorship, or a cult. We dont ban things, let people not do them on their own. It may take time and understanding, but eventually they will realize the truth. And it isnt a cult either. We dont brainwash someone to become religious, he should realize it eventully no matter how long it takes. Rambam writes that you have to keep on trying to help you fellow Jew become more observant through talking nicely, and soft to him, not by yelling at him and embarrasing him.
I fully agree with this.
I agree with this also, from a Christian aspect.
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How is the ban to be enforced?
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How is the ban to be enforced?
Head collars, if they stand to close to each other, it explodes.
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Also please can you answer my question on ballet. Is it wrong for Jews to watch ballet, in your opinion, Yacov?
Speaking of ballet, back in Iran, one of my aunts used to take ballet for a number of years. She was very beautiful and quite good at it. And she even danced on television. However, being that my family is Jewish, my grandfather and uncles did not want her getting noticed by the Muslims. They did not believe it was proper for her to dance on stage in skimpy tutu. They didn't want to have to say no to a Muslim who might have wanted to marry my aunt. So they told her to stop with the ballet and she did.
Yes I am a religious Jew. But I wont force religion on someone by banning something that they want to do. Ill tell them its wrong, but if they dont listen I wont stop them. Kiruv 101, dont force anything on anyone, let them realize with time what is wrong and right. And I dont understand, are you a fully practicing Jew? If you arent, then how would you like it if I came to your home on Shabbat and took your Television away, or something that you want to do on Shabbat but is Asur? You explain clearly why it is Asur, then if they dont want to do it you let it go, and slowly, gradually, hopefully they will become Jewish, through understanding, and philosophy. This is a problem that I have with some of the Kiruv Yeshivot, the ones that take troubled kids after high school. They either force it on the kid and he follows the rules, but then when he leaves Yeshiva after a year he is back to how he was before. Judaism isnt a dictatorship, or a cult. We dont ban things, let people not do them on their own. It may take time and understanding, but eventually they will realize the truth. And it isnt a cult either. We dont brainwash someone to become religious, he should realize it eventully no matter how long it takes. Rambam writes that you have to keep on trying to help you fellow Jew become more observant through talking nicely, and soft to him, not by yelling at him and embarrasing him.
In this case, I agree 100% with with Dominater96. The best thing Jews can do is to lead by example.
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Speaking of ballet, back in Iran, one of my aunts used to take ballet for a number of years. She was very beautiful and quite good at it. And she even danced on television. However, being that my family is Jewish, my grandfather and uncles did not want her getting noticed by the Muslims. They did not believe it was proper for her to dance on stage in skimpy tutu. They didn't want to have to say no to a Muslim who might have wanted to marry my aunt. So they told her to stop with the ballet and she did.
She couldn't dance there now, its against the law.
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Also please can you answer my question on ballet. Is it wrong for Jews to watch ballet, in your opinion, Yacov?
Yes it is wrong. It's not my opinion but Jewish Law. The reason that it is wrong is because you can see under the female dancers' skirts and because the skirts are short. Technically if it was all male dancers, both men and women could watch it but that's just gay. I personally think ballet in general is gay anyway so it is no big loss not to see it.
haha . good one yakov
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I used to think similar to Yaacov when I was maybe 18-19 years old.
So you didn't go to the prom when you were 18?
I did go to the prom...but it wasn't in a limo or anythign fancy shmancy..I didn't kiss girls or hook up with them..I didn't do drugs...nor ever will..I never drank...
But I looked down on anyone that had a good time and didn't focus on their studies and on their future. I made my personal life a little more puritanical...And I look back and I regret that I didn't loosen up..BUT...at the same time, am very happy that I didn't go hooking up wtih random girls and smoke and drink etc etc. I'm glad that I focused on my studies...and generally people who get to know me like what I'm made out of and not a total degenerate loser like the rest of the people who smoked pot in my highschool.
Who did you go with?
Did you have girlfriends?
My best friend from USY...ANd no, I wasn't even allowed to have any girlfriends at the age of 17... I didn't have my first real girlfriend until i was 25!
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Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
In a word, no. There is no obligation for Jews at these proms to dance or dress immodestly, what is the problem with Jews attending social events and having a good time?
You are not Jewish. Who gave you the authority to decide Jewish Law?
There is nothing wrong with attending social events. The problem is that men and women dancing together is immodest, period. Men aren't even supposed to see women dancing among women because it is immodest to see the form of a woman dancing. That is why the mechitza at a Jewish wedding is not made so you can see through it but the mechitza in a synagogue is made with wholes where the women can look across and see the men praying. The second is fine as long as the men don't stare at the women through the wholes. It's just meant to keep a separation between the genders.
This is my Gentile point of view, your question by using the word "Should" is implying that you are inviting all points of view, and this is mine. I simply can't believe that dancing is immodest! Is going to watch the ballet forbidden? Social events are, by definition, social, and I would say that it is morally wrong for Jews to be forbidden from mixing with Gentiles on account of this. However, this is coming from my position as a Gentile (as I cannot see why this is immodest) and I respect your views, even though I would disagree with them.
Jews who marry Gentiles have no place in The World To Come. Jews who do that are traitors. You are NOT going to come in here and say that Jewish beliefs are morally wrong. You are being like FTF and his attack on The Talmud.
I did not mention marriage at all. The context I said was social mixing. Who are you to stop Jews mixing with Gentiles in a social way. I too am opposed to Jews marrying Gentiles, because I believe Judaism's rules on this should be respected. However I cannot see how male-female dancing is bad at all. And I don't see how dancing with someone of the opposite sex (provided it is not immodest) is bad, even between Jew and Gentile if there is nothing sexual going with it.
Also please can you answer my question on ballet. Is it wrong for Jews to watch ballet, in your opinion, Yacov?
Dancing with a woman is sexual in Judaism so it should not be done with anyone except between a husband and wife in private.
When I was immodest, I just wanted to dance with women so I could hug them. If you're married, you can always hug your wife so it wouldn't be a big deal to dance with a woman. Anything involving hugging, dancing, or kissing should not be done between a Jew and Gentile of the opposite gender. The most lenient position is that it is okay to shake hands and that is what Chaim holds by and what Rabbi Kahane held by. I am more strict and wouldn't want to shake hands with an attractive women because I am a man and it is immodest. Chaim's sister holds by the more strict position and doesn't shake hands with men at all.
OK, thanks for clearing that up :)
Out of interest, why is it immodest in Judaism, and why is shaking hands immodest?
Shaking hands (with the opposite sex) is not immodest per se. However, there is a prohibition against deriving pleasure from touching a woman (or a man in the opposite case). Thus, many refrain from touching or shaking a hand at all, as a fence around this rule. I personally do not shake hands with a female unless they stick out their hand first, and even then I don't give a firm grip. The act may seem innocent with no intent for immodesty, but it can lead that way.
What do you think was the first thing that attracted Clinton to Monica? It started with a handshake, maybe a wink too, but the handshake was the first point of contact. If one refrains from shaking hands with the opposite sex, one creates a wall and establishes boundries.
I have shook so many hands..and so have so many others and it didn't lead to anything...
THat's not to say that I disagree with certain rabbis who prohibit it...It's just a fence..Some get tempted more easily than others. OThers can control themselves better than others...so some need to build a fence 5 miles wide while others only need 10 feet.
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I don't care that it's supposed to be modest and virtuous. Every time an Orthodox refuses to shake my hand, or pass money from him to me to the driver in a cab, I get upset.
It just stinks of sexism. What, is he unable to contain himself sexually near every female that he can't touch them even for societal necessities? I think they underestimate how much a handshake can do. You might as well put women in burkas like the muslims because LOOKING at women can lead to impure thoughts.
Impure thoughts aren't pure evil like committing murder, it's just a way of seeing how you're attracted to people. People with common sense keep it to themselves and don't act on it.
This is the only thing that sets me off when dealing with orthodox men. Otherwise they're charming people.
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no, Jews SHOULD DEF GO TO PROMS! Show some of these people how wonderful your manners are, with nice clothing, etc. I went to 3 proms. ^-^
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no, Jews SHOULD DEF GO TO PROMS! Show some of these people how wonderful your manners are, with nice clothing, etc. I went to 3 proms. ^-^
How true. I would be nice to see more chivalry these days.
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no senior proms should not be banned for Jews..it should be banned for losers who can't find girlfriends or vice versa.
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I was never invited to any prom, so this is a sad subject for me...... :::D
oh well...... ::)
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I was never invited to any prom, so this is a sad subject for me...... :::D
oh well...... ::)
This sounds like good material for a remake of the Dean Martin Roast Show. All we need is to get Red Buttons out of retirement and brush off his never had a dinner act ;D
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;D :::D
Ive always wanted to be a stand up comedianne.......I love Carol Burnett..... :)
I was never invited to any prom, so this is a sad subject for me...... :::D
oh well...... ::)
This sounds like good material for a remake of the Dean Martin Roast Show. All we need is to get Red Buttons out of retirement and brush off his never had a dinner act ;D
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Really, I AM serious- young Jewish people that LOVE HaShem, they SHOULD go in groups and act with respect that they are taught at home, they will get COMPLIMENTS- dress modest, look pure, people would be like>>>> :o WOW- I wish I was better- its true. I know I have seen pretty devout Christians do this, its neat- so, Jewish people ARE the example of G-d in the Earth- SO- YES. Go with your fellow brethren. (NOT dating style- be DIFFERENT- look holy. HaShem WILL reward this good behavior.)
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Really, I AM serious- young Jewish people that LOVE HaShem, they SHOULD go in groups and act with respect that they are taught at home, they will get COMPLIMENTS- dress modest, look pure, people would be like>>>> :o WOW- I wish I was better- its true. I know I have seen pretty devout Christians do this, its neat- so, Jewish people ARE the example of G-d in the Earth- SO- YES. Go with your fellow brethren. (NOT dating style- be DIFFERENT- look holy. HaShem WILL reward this good behavior.)
Excellent idea AsheDina! :clap:
I know you are right about how people perceive you. We make an impression on all who we come into contact with. A holy person is usually respected. Even when those wicked people disrespect you others will realize how wicked the others are. I have seen this effect once I cleaned up my image and returned to a life modeled on Torah.
muman613
PS: Im one who never went to a prom.
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The person who began this thread is mentally challenged and tends to obsess about the opposite sex too much... Proms are fine if the people attending them are good and moral, just like anything else!
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The person who began this thread is mentally challenged and tends to obsess about the opposite sex too much... Proms are fine if the people attending them are good and moral, just like anything else!
Dan,
It is true that inter-gender dancing is forbidden by Orthodox Jewish law. I think that the original poster just wanted to express this and suggest to those who are observant to not engage in this gentile custom.
muman613
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The person who began this thread is mentally challenged and tends to obsess about the opposite sex too much... Proms are fine if the people attending them are good and moral, just like anything else!
It seems to me that dancing is somewhat of a teasing simulation of sex , and I think it's an outrageous thing to do in public. (in private it would just be pathetic!)
side point-
The person that started this thread meant it somewhat in jest, but is a bit crazy. (and the expression, never a truer word spoken in jest, holds true. He probably would want it banned).
I changed the subject from "should senior proms be banned for orthodox jews?" , to "are proms immoral?"
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And to the one that claims that intergender dancing is forbidden in jewish law. He won't quote where. It is not a fact. He could research on google though.
But the touchy dancing in public taking place at proms, is obviously considered forbidden by those that refuse to touch the opposite sex before marriage.
You may have seen a rabbi dancing with a woman, with a tissue in between.
So the one that thinks he knows better can tell him he is violating halacha. But he won't, I assure you. He wouldn't dare even quote halacha to him , or even to anybody here.
Those making claims about jewish law here, know nothing of it, and in some cases, only recently discovered its existance.
So there is little point in discussing jewish law. When nobody can even quote it, so far, not even with google, which is a joke way to study it anyway. And I assure you that this character has not studied jewish law.
More interestingly, given what dancing is..
a teasing simulation of sex , et.c. as I said. I think it's an outrageous thing to do in public. (in private it would just be pathetic!)
And I wonder how anybody can defend it as normal or good or even OK. I think it's crazy. The only reason it isn't considered shameless is because it's a societal norm, and a crazy one. If you do it, you should at least know that it's not quite right and you're not getting frowned on because it's a crazy society that we live in.
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And to the one that claims that intergender dancing is forbidden in jewish law. He won't quote where. It is not a fact. He could research on google though.
But the touchy dancing in public taking place at proms, is obviously considered forbidden by those that refuse to touch the opposite sex before marriage.
You may have seen a rabbi dancing with a woman, with a tissue in between.
So the one that thinks he knows better can tell him he is violating halacha. But he won't, I assure you. He wouldn't dare even quote halacha to him , or even to anybody here.
Those making claims about jewish law here, know nothing of it, and in some cases, only recently discovered its existance.
So there is little point in discussing jewish law. When nobody can even quote it, so far, not even with google, which is a joke way to study it anyway. And I assure you that this character has not studied jewish law.
More interestingly, given what dancing is..
a teasing simulation of sex , et.c. as I said. I think it's an outrageous thing to do in public. (in private it would just be pathetic!)
And I wonder how anybody can defend it as normal or good or even OK. I think it's crazy. The only reason it isn't considered shameless is because it's a societal norm, and a crazy one. If you do it, you should at least know that it's not quite right and you're not getting frowned on because it's a crazy society that we live in.
q_q_,
I thought you were supposed to be smart about these things. Are you not Orthodox? I think you are not being honest when you say that the reason dancing is not ok is just because it is crazy to you....
Have you ever heard of the middah of Tzniut? Tzniut is usually translated as modesty. Here is the page from wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzniut
Tzniut or Tznius (also Tzeniut) (Hebrew: צניעות "modesty") is a term used within Judaism and has its greatest influence as a notion within Orthodox Judaism. It is used to describe both a character trait and a group of Jewish religious laws pertaining to conduct in general and especially between the sexes.
Humility is a paramount ideal within Judaism. Moses is referred to as "exceedingly humble, more than any man in the world" (Bamidbar 12:3). The Talmud states that humility is one of the characteristic traits of the Jewish people. (Talmud, Tractate Yevamot 79a.)
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Public gatherings and dancing
In Orthodox Judaism, men and women are separated at certain other public religious gatherings, especially where dancing is expected to take place. While Orthodox Jews agree that mixed dancing is prohibited and dancing requires separation, the extent to which separation is required under other circumstances varies within Orthodox Judaism. Some Haredi authorities require separation at celebratory meals and events such as weddings, although some claim noted Haredi Rabbi Moshe Feinstein held that such separation is not required except for the dancing component. Modern Orthodox authorities generally do not require separation except for dancing. [7] Where separation occurs, it is often includes setting up a temporary Mechitza (partition).
Conservative and Reform Judaism do not require separation between men and women at religious gatherings.
Maybe you are referring to reform Judaism but I am not familiar with that...
muman613
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q_q_,
I thought you were supposed to be smart about these things. Are you not Orthodox? I think you are not being honest when you say that the reason dancing is not ok is just because it is crazy to you....
I didn't say that. Quote me.
Have you ever heard of the middah of Tzniut? Tzniut is usually translated as modesty. Here is the page from wiki:
yes
Maybe you are referring to reform Judaism but I am not familiar with that...
I didn't refer to it at all. You did, in your copy/paste.
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q_q_,
I thought you were supposed to be smart about these things. Are you not Orthodox? I think you are not being honest when you say that the reason dancing is not ok is just because it is crazy to you....
I didn't say that. Quote me.
Have you ever heard of the middah of Tzniut? Tzniut is usually translated as modesty. Here is the page from wiki:
yes
Maybe you are referring to reform Judaism but I am not familiar with that...
I didn't refer to it at all. You did, in your copy/paste.
More interestingly, given what dancing is..
a teasing simulation of sex , et.c. as I said. I think it's an outrageous thing to do in public. (in private it would just be pathetic!)
And I wonder how anybody can defend it as normal or good or even OK. I think it's crazy. The only reason it isn't considered shameless is because it's a societal norm, and a crazy one. If you do it, you should at least know that it's not quite right and you're not getting frowned on because it's a crazy society that we live in.
Did I make up that you said that dancing is not OK because you think it's crazy?
muman613
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More interestingly, given what dancing is..
a teasing simulation of sex , et.c. as I said. I think it's an outrageous thing to do in public. (in private it would just be pathetic!)
And I wonder how anybody can defend it as normal or good or even OK. I think it's crazy. The only reason it isn't considered shameless is because it's a societal norm, and a crazy one. If you do it, you should at least know that it's not quite right and you're not getting frowned on because it's a crazy society that we live in.
Did I make up that you said that dancing is not OK because you think it's crazy?
muman613
Muman, the fact that after all our "discussions", you choose to continue finding new issues to "argue" over with me over, is VERY selfish, because it's not good for the forum.
I didn't say you made anything up.
What you did was you mischaracterised my view.
(and you just miscategorised your own mistake, your miscategorisation of everything knows no limits)
Compare and Contrast what I said with your mischaracterisation of it.
I said
"
So there is little point in discussing jewish law. When nobody can even quote it, so far, not even with google, which is a joke way to study it anyway. And I assure you that this character has not studied jewish law.
More interestingly, given what dancing is..
a teasing simulation of sex , et.c. as I said. I think it's an outrageous thing to do in public. (in private it would just be pathetic!)
And I wonder how anybody can defend it as normal or good or even OK. I think it's crazy. The only reason it isn't considered shameless is because it's a societal norm, and a crazy one. If you do it, you should at least know that it's not quite right and you're not getting frowned on because it's a crazy society that we live in.
"
Here is what you said
"
I thought you were supposed to be smart about these things. Are you not Orthodox? I think you are not being honest when you say that the reason dancing is not ok is just because it is crazy to you....
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You suggest that my reason suggests that I am not an orthodox jew..
You remove the argument I used.. and ridicule it to "you think it's crazy so it's not ok". I never claimed to give an absolute law. I gave some premises and arguments. I said myself that it's stupid to discuss jewish law without quoting it, nobody is, nobody has studied it, and it's ridiculous to do as you did, and state a position regarding it without quoting anything, without studying anything. And then I stated my argument. Don't mischaracterise that as an argument of jewish law that you must accept without reason.
(just as you mischaracterise an opinion on a website as countering and overruling the plain text of tenach (esau thread). Just as you mischaracterise an article making a humouress observation, as an article stating an absolute fact. You have a LONG history of miscategorization and empty rhetoric, and that's just some of this month)
Now if you want to respond to what I write, then don't restate it in your own words, your own empty rhetoric. We clearly cannot have these "discussions", because it doesn't work.
So I repeat.
Muman, the fact that after all our "discussions", you choose to continue finding new issues to "argue" over with me over, is VERY selfish, because it's not good for the forum.
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q_q_,
What I said about Esau is from Midrash and I have researched and asked Rabbis about it. I was correct in my understanding. Esau did work hard to impress his father that he was a righteous man and this is why Yitzak held Esau as his favorite. There is no backing down on this fact. You do know that there are many levels of understanding Torah and your way is not the only way. Once again I could quote you several sources which are back-stories for the story of Esau/Yaakov.
Regarding the issue of dancing it is also very clear that you are just being stubborn and not admiting that you were not clear about the Jewish position on inter-gender dancing. This is another area where asking a competent Rabbi would clear up the question instantaneously.
I do not ever imply that I am a Rabbi or a Poskin of Jewish questions. I am learning and growing but I also have a good memory {photographic} and a desire to be close to our G-d. If you disagree with me on Torah I think we can debate it civily.
muman613
PS: Maybe this question should be arbitrated by our friend Judeanoncapita on his radio show.
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Muman, let's not have these discussions. I know where they lead.
Stop initiating them and reininitiating them with me.
OK?