JTF.ORG Forum
The Worldwide Crisis of Islam => The Truth About Islam => Topic started by: ftf on July 10, 2007, 04:28:15 PM
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Rules numbers 4 and 5 of this forum read as follows:
4. Threats and personal insults are not acceptable, and will lead to the banning of members who engage in such conduct. The administrators may decide to first provide a warning to any member making threats or personal insults, or may to decide to ban such members immediately.
5. JTF is a religious organization. While we have many non-religious supporters, and we welcome them, we do expect them to respect our beliefs. Therefore, obscene language of any kind is unacceptable and may lead to the banning of a member.
Until somone tells me otherwise I will inforce these rules vigorously in this, my, section.
Forum rules (http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=441.0)
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Those rules were never intended to apply to muslim-nazis who are dedicated to killing every Jew and christian on this planet and who state that 'Torah has been perverted' (G_d forbid) .
BTW ftf, the section you moderate is NOT your personal fiefdom!
This situation is getting more insane with each passing day. Will any members out there with backbone PLEASE act?
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I am happy with you opposing islam, but do it without the obscenities.
It's insane that I'm taking a stand, against people using obscene langauge on our forums who are by doing so belittling our organisation?
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We need some sort of final ruling on this. The forum rules say that personal insults are not acceptable and that obscene language is unacceptable. First of all, nothing that newman said was personal. He was attacking Islam, not Abdulluh, he doesn't even know who Abdulluh is. I think that rule 4 doesn't apply in this situation, but rule 5 definitely does. What constitutes obscene language? Chaim said that we have the right to verbally assault and insult any of our enemies such as evil blacks and arab nazis. Maybe it is obscene to talk about cutting or biting the you know what from a woman's private parts, but it's not obscene to attack Muslims and insult them. Ftf, you have a problem with that, but as long as you don't delete posts that use methods of attack that are different than yours, I don't believe there is a problem here. I do agree that talk about mutilating women's genitals is taking it a bit too far but then again, to me it is a legitimate way of attacking Muslims because THAT'S WHAT SOME MUSLIMS DO TO THEIR DAUGHTERS. As a good rule of thumb, always try to think of what Chaim would do in a certain situation. Does he insult and demean Muslims, YES, but I don't think he would ever discuss in an in-depth way, crudely performing female genital mutilation.
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I'm not in any way opposed to insulting islam, but in keeping with the forum rules, when it comes to a specific person I think we should be attacking the beliefs not the person, many posts by newman and Muck de Fuslims were definately aimed at the person, calling him specifically a cammel humper for instance.
Why couldn't they alternatively say "Why does your religion authorise sex with animals?" That would be in keeping with the rules, and would stop it from being personal.
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I'm not in any way opposed to insulting islam, but in keeping with the forum rules, when it comes to a specific person I think we should be attacking the beliefs not the person, many posts by newman and Muck de Fuslims were definately aimed at the person, calling him specifically a cammel humper for instance.
Why couldn't they alternatively say "Why does your religion authorise sex with animals?" That would be in keeping with the rules, and would stop it from being personal.
If a hammas leader was on the forum with Chaim, Do you think Chaim would be so whimpy?
I agree with Ze'ev we need a final ruling here. This organisation is not a ladies tea party. The forum rules were never meant to apply to nazis.
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Look, if there was a Hamas leader here, it would be quite appropriate to accuse him of being party to mass murder, but we are not talking about a hamas leader, we are talking about a fringe member of the muslim community, a recent convert who has not yet commmited any crimes in the name of Islam as far as we know.
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I'm not in any way opposed to insulting islam, but in keeping with the forum rules, when it comes to a specific person I think we should be attacking the beliefs not the person, many posts by newman and Muck de Fuslims were definately aimed at the person, calling him specifically a cammel humper for instance.
Why couldn't they alternatively say "Why does your religion authorise sex with animals?" That would be in keeping with the rules, and would stop it from being personal.
I'm getting more than a little tired or your lies and distortion of the truth.
I never accused the Moozie of being a camel humper.
And even if newman did, he did so facetiously, he obviously has no way to know who or what Abdu is humping, as he doesn't know him personally.
He's putting the Moozie down with dark humor. I already explained this to you in another thread.
Calling the Moo a camel humper is NOT civil, IS disrespectful, IS insulting, IS demeaning, but is NOT obscene.
NOT being civil, NOT being courteous, and choosing TO insult Muslims is NOT against JTF rules.
Newman or myself COULD have said "Why does your religion authorise sex with animals?" but I guess we're just not as erudite, articulate, intelligent or polite as you are.
Please try using better criteria and judgement before deleting posts in the future, as this nonsense is getting tiresome and disrupting the board.
You know,ftf, I keep trying to let things with you rest. But you insist on mentioning me in your posts or inserting comments about my posts in threads that have died.
Give it a rest.
One other thing, if you're going to vigorously 'inforce' the rules, I think you should learn how to correctly spell 'enforce. Poor spelling and semi-literate moderators reflect badly on JTF.
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I'm not in any way opposed to insulting islam, but in keeping with the forum rules, when it comes to a specific person I think we should be attacking the beliefs not the person, many posts by newman and Muck de Fuslims were definately aimed at the person, calling him specifically a cammel humper for instance.
Why couldn't they alternatively say "Why does your religion authorise sex with animals?" That would be in keeping with the rules, and would stop it from being personal.
I'm getting more than a little tired or your lies and distortion of the truth.
I never accused the Moozie of being a camel humper.
And even if newman did, he did so facetiously, he obviously has no way to know who or what Abdu is humping, as he doesn't know him personally.
He's putting the Moozie down with dark humor. I already explained this to you in another thread.
Calling the Moo a camel humper is NOT civil, IS disrespectful, IS insulting, IS demeaning, but is NOT obscene.
NOT being civil, NOT being courteous, and choosing TO insult Muslims is NOT against JTF rules.
Newman or myself COULD have said "Why does your religion authorise sex with animals?" but I guess we're just not as erudite, articulate, intelligent or polite as you are.
Please try using better criteria and judgement before deleting posts in the future, as this nonsense is getting tiresome and disrupting the board.
You know,ftf, I keep trying to let things with you rest. But you insist on mentioning me in your posts or inserting comments about my posts in threads that have died.
Give it a rest.
One other thing, if you're going to vigorously 'inforce' the rules, I think you should learn how to correctly spell 'enforce. Poor spelling and semi-literate moderators reflect badly on JTF.
Hey Muck,
How do you type the noise you make when you blow a rasberry?
I think I'll need to learn.
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As Chief Administrator, I rule that the rules don't apply when dealing with Muslims. Chaim says with our enemies, anything goes.
Thanks, Yacov....Jimmy said the same later on. Someone's not listening, though.
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So he has been deleting more posts?
Not yet....just no change in attitude.
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Thanks for setting things straight Yakov
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How about figuring out why on my part of the computer this site goes on and off,on the same computer i nbrothers part it works perfectly
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If you have one rule for one person and a different rule for a different person, what you are is two faced, and what you deserve is no support from any decent person.
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It's two-faced to treat the same person in two different ways. It's not two-faced to treat two entirely different people in different ways.
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If you announce a set of rules, and then say that they don't apply to people you don't like, that is two faced.
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FTF, forgive me if I'm out of line, but as a Christian "Love thy enemy" is not the teachings of the Torah. ( This is why I respect the Jewish people.) Can we give the enemy the same "Respect" to those that are against us? As far as personal attacks, if a muslim that came into JTF spouting insanity, I would call him a nazi pig. Chaim would do the same, he has in broadcasts. As a Christian, if a known nazi came into the forum, I personally would insult him by calling him / her as what is it. VERMIN SCUM. Respect should be earned. I have no respect for arab muslims that want the death of the Jews and Christians. Over the last 8 years on the net, I've seen no change in the muslim mindset. Rabbi Kahane called for confrontation.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fwC9dYl1O2A (http://youtube.com/watch?v=fwC9dYl1O2A)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kI1O4QzWU18 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=kI1O4QzWU18)
This is just my opinion, I disagree with you, but with respect. I don't have to use extreme foul language to defame my enemy, but calling some one a nazi pig, if they are, so be it .
Your thoughts ?
Jeff
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It seems there are vastly different approaches to christianity. There's the 'love everybody, kiss the enemy' approach or the Hardshell Baptist 'kill the SOB stone dead' approach. I like the Hardshell Baptist view, personally.
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'kill the SOB stone dead' approach. I like the Hardshell Baptist view, personally.
That in a nutshell, expressed my belief towards the enemy.
Jeff
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'kill the SOB stone dead' approach. I like the Hardshell Baptist view, personally.
That in a nutshell, expressed my belief towards the enemy.
Jeff
When G Gordon Liddy first joined the FBI he got a lesson in the 'right mentallity' for gunfighting from a hardshell Baptist. If you get the chance to read 'Will' , he quotes it verbatim. It's a real eye opener.
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Newman , I'll check that out. Trust me , I get into more verbal discussions with the "love thy enemy" Christians than any one else. These people are sheep to the slaughter.In a time of war, who wins ? Those that say "We are apostles of peace!" or those that say "The tanks and f-16's are on the way." I am a peaceful person, in a time of peace, in a time of war. DESTROY THE ENEMY AND DO IT POST HASTE. Let the bodies hit the floor, and for those that believe in the Theology that I do (Christian belief) wear the chains of dhimmitude well, there are those that refuse to grab our ankles, bend over, and be taken.
I personally have no use for people that want to die, at the hands of the enemy. I take the other point of view. Make the other (expletive deleted) die for his land and belief. Drop the enemy dead.
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MW, what I can't understand is that christians must believe in the Torah or 1st test' to validate their faith. Where in the Torah does this kissy kissy stuff appear. Remember David and Goliath? When Goliath threatened the Jews and cursed HaShem, the man of culture and peace wasted no time in stepping up and killing that big SOB stone motherless dead! No blessing the enemy there.
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Newman, GREAT POST!!
This is where I become a lousy Christian. My Theology says "love thy enemy". And this is where I am in conflict with my own faith. I believe the Sabbath is on Saturday, not Sunday. I don't understand many things. Honestly, I don't understand why Christians pick and choose from the O.T. , when we believe that Jesus came too make new rules. At this point in time, i'm at a cross road. I believe in what I was taught about the teachings of Jesus, on the other hand I respect the Torah. The biggest thing I believe in "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." I just called my Dad about this, it was all psycho babble in his reply. How can Christians believe in both teachings ? I don't know. There are many examples of when G-d wiped out the enemies of Israel, and even smacked the Jews down in the OT. I guess I'm a horrible Christian. All I realize that in a fight, you fight too win. If that is against my Theology ( and I guess it is ) then, call me an apostate of Christianity. I don't want too love my enemies, I just want them dead. I guess I'll pay for it when I die. So be it.
Jeff
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I understand your conflict as I was raised christian too. And NO......you won't pay for wanting your enemies dead. You are required to HATE evil people. It is those who wan't to kiss those who would murder Jews and righteous gentiles who will be for it at judgement time.
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Newman, let me put this as bluntly as I can , while respecting the forum rules. If anyone desires too kill Jews in the name of allah, they can put me on the list. I respect Rabbi Kahane, because the man had the testicular fortitude TOO STAND UP TOO THE ENEMIES OF THE JEWS. This is my honest opinion. I grow weary and sick of my fellow "Christians" that would have the sword of islam at their neck, and say "Jesus told me to love you." Now is not the time for peace, it is a time for war. Our respective enemy must be obliterated at all cost. We have no option, but too win.
Jeff
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Newman, let me put this as bluntly as I can , while respecting the forum rules. If anyone desires too kill Jews in the name of allah, they can put me on the list. I respect Rabbi Kahane, because the man had the testicular fortitude TOO STAND UP TOO THE ENEMIES OF THE JEWS. This is my honest opinion. I grow weary and sick of my fellow "Christians" that would have the sword of islam at their neck, and say "Jesus told me to love you." Now is not the time for peace, it is a time for war. Our respective enemy must be obliterated at all cost. We have no option, but too win.
Jeff
And to that all sensible Jews, christians, noachides and hindus shout "AMEN AMEN AMEN".
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Newman, let me put this as bluntly as I can , while respecting the forum rules. If anyone desires too kill Jews in the name of allah, they can put me on the list. I respect Rabbi Kahane, because the man had the testicular fortitude TOO STAND UP TOO THE ENEMIES OF THE JEWS. This is my honest opinion. I grow weary and sick of my fellow "Christians" that would have the sword of islam at their neck, and say "Jesus told me to love you." Now is not the time for peace, it is a time for war. Our respective enemy must be obliterated at all cost. We have no option, but too win.
Jeff
I like the cut of your jib, mosquewatch. Christians need to rethink their "love the enemy approach" That belief definitely won't help save Western Civilization.
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Newman, let me put this as bluntly as I can , while respecting the forum rules. If anyone desires too kill Jews in the name of allah, they can put me on the list. I respect Rabbi Kahane, because the man had the testicular fortitude TOO STAND UP TOO THE ENEMIES OF THE JEWS. This is my honest opinion. I grow weary and sick of my fellow "Christians" that would have the sword of islam at their neck, and say "Jesus told me to love you." Now is not the time for peace, it is a time for war. Our respective enemy must be obliterated at all cost. We have no option, but too win.
Jeff
I like the cut of your jib, mosquewatch. Christians need to rethink their "love the enemy approach" That belief definitely won't help save Western Civilization.
You can love your enemy while shooting them so as to prevent them from doing any further sin...
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Quote:"You can love your enemy while shooting them so as to prevent them from doing any further sin..."
I think that was their approach to the Jews for 1700 years.
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Quote:"You can love your enemy while shooting them so as to prevent them from doing any further sin..."
I think that was their approach to the Jews for 1700 years.
Don't you dare associate me with any such action, I have never killed anyone, and am descended from Jews on one side of my family.
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islam is our enemy, and there is no telling how many muslims that follow that cult , that have the same mindset as mohammed or bin laden. If these people desire our deaths, Well, I guess I'm a bad Christian. I don't love bin laden or his minions. I hate their guts, and I wish the mujahadin deader than a doornail. I don't love the mujahadin, i don't love nazis, I don't love the kkk , I don't love people that will glady behead a Jew and scream "God is great" while doing it. These people are not too be loved, they should be hunted down and eradicated like the vermin scum they are. I honestly have no love for the enemy. For people that believe in the Theology I do, they had better take their heads our the sand. In war, who wins? Those that say "Love thy enemy!" , or those that say "Behead them, and do it now." FTF I'm not against you, we just disagree, and I respect your opinion.
It's not rational thought to tell our troops "Love the enemy, then kill them." It is rational thought too tell our Troops, "Hate your enemy, and kill them." The enemy is not too be loved, they should be wiped out.
With no questions asked. This is why we are not winning in Iraq, because, we have too "love and respect" the wishes of those that want us dead.
Jeff
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I understand your anger, mosquewatch. But unconditional hate will make you no different than your enemy. Times change and people change, those who you call "enemy" today, might be an ally tomorow. And if that happens you must be able to adapt to the situation. I know several old timers here in the USA that still hate the Japanese even after all this time. Thats what we christians mean when we say to love our enemies. Because we know that they won't always be our enemies. We hate what they do now, but we don't hate them for all time because of it. I know several members on this board still hate the germans for what they did during WWII. Hating what they did then is one thing, but still hating them now after they have reformed is absurd not to mention unhealthy. Because believe it or not there will come a time soon when Arabs are not the enemy anymore... And what will you do then?
Cyrizian
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Cyrizian, I suggest you that you don't make me an enemy. I will be one, that will never back down. If you ever compare me with the muslim throat cutting scum again, I will be one person that will be willing too be banned from this forum , and still support it. I grow sick and tired of you comparing me too the muslim scum that want too kill Jews in the name of allah. If you are trying to bait me into anger, DO IT.
I HAVE LOST MY HOME , I HAVE HAD DEATH THREATS FROM MUSLIMS. IF YOU WANT TOO SUCK UP TOO THE MUSLIMS DO IT. Understand this completely, I am willing too get banned from this forum, AND STILL SUPPORT IT. HAVE A GOOD DAY.
JEFF
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:o Ok, I am backing away slowly - please put the gun down. I am slowly walking away... slowly walking away.
Ok I am at a safe distance and I am bringing in the negotiator.
*Negotiator takes the mic*
What made you think I was trying to be your enemy? I was only saying that your hate is only going to hurt you in the end. I understand your loss. I lost my home too (my whole country in fact). I also have received death threats. And let me make this perfectly clear...
I will never.... never suck up to a muslim.
I am sorry that you take offense at my remark that you are acting alot like the "muslim throat cutting scum." But this is good stuff that you need to hear. I want these muslims defeated just as much as you do. But you call yourself a christian even though you have no mercy in your heart. I hate what they do... All the beheadings, flying planes into buildings, strapping bombs on children... but I don't hate them. Underneath all that hatred and barbarity there is still a human being. And human beings can change. You have forgotten that with G-d, all things are possible.
Once we have defeated Islam, then comes the REAL test: The test of our humanity.
And you don't want to fail that test.
Because if you do, in G-d's eyes, you are no better than them...
Respectfully,
Cyrizian
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"Because if you do, in G-d's eyes, you are no better than them..."
NOT IN TORAH!
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I was talking to a christian, newman.
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I was talking to a christian, newman.
Mosqewatch will be only too happy to tell you he believes in Torah 100%.
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I do too. But I also believe in the message of Yeshua. There are no conflicts that I can see. And neither should mosquewatch if he is indeed a christian as he claims.
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"Because if you do, in G-d's eyes, you are no better than them..."
NOT IN TORAH!
Can you tell me where it says to hate your enemies? I can see plenty about killing them, but nothing about hating them.
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Cyrizian ,
Let me first off apologize for my rude behaviour. We simply disagree on some issues and no matter what crap times I am having I should not have taken it out on you. That was wrong and I openly apologize for my distasteful behaviour. Here is where we disagree.
Quote I am sorry that you take offense at my remark that you are acting alot like the "muslim throat cutting scum." But this is good stuff that you need to hear. I have never cut the throat of anyone, nor do I plan too, nor will I ever consider it. This was , in my opinion, a bad choice of words to describe me as a human being, that would never do such a vile act. That being said the Mililtary should eradicate the enemy totally.
Quote I want these muslims defeated just as much as you do. But you call yourself a christian even though you have no mercy in your heart. I hate what they do... All the beheadings, flying planes into buildings, strapping bombs on children... but I don't hate them. Underneath all that hatred and barbarity there is still a human being. And human beings can change. You have forgotten that with G-d, all things are possible. I have no compassion of mercy for muslim terrorists, and they should be killed. I don't care what the age, gender, hair color, skin color. Do you believe we should have had mercy for the nazi germans or hitler ? On the 6'th of June 1944, no mercy was shown too the enemy, they were obliterated totally and many brave men and women died. We are at war, a war for our very existance. If you desire mercy too the enemy today, you and your family will end up with vital blood carrying vessels, spewing out the very life's blood into the streets, and I will be alive.
If you believe that muslim terrorists deserve mercy, I disagree with you.
And, in my opinion, if you believe the day will come when Muslims will one day NOT BE THE ENEMY, you are grasping at straws, while the ship is sinking.
(http://rabbiyonah.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/danielpearl.jpg)
The people that did this , do not deserve mercy, they deserve the grave.
I again apologize for my rude, and uncalled text towards you. Best of wishes too you and yours.
Jeff
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"Once we have defeated Islam, then comes the REAL test: The test of our humanity.
And you don't want to fail that test.
Because if you do, in G-d's eyes, you are no better than them..."
Yeah, once we have defeated Islam.
But we haven't done that yet, have we ?
We're not even close to defeating Islam.
And yet, you and your ilk, constantly remind us that we should be respectful, humane, and compassionate towards moozies right now, or else we're just as bad as they are.
Because believe it or not there will come a time soon when Arabs are not the enemy anymore... And what will you do then?
I'll deal with that eventuality if, and when, it ever comes to pass.
Until that time the Islamic enemy should be treated as an enemy and not given any quarter.
The enemy will cease to be an enemy only when he is defeated, and not a moment sooner.
Your insistence on treating an enemy as if he's not an enemy, based on some pie in the sky notion that he will soon be a friend, impedes taking the actions necessary to defeat the enemy.
Your logic is not only faulty, it's downright dangerous.
Mosquewatch put it perfectly;
If you believe that muslim terrorists deserve mercy, I disagree with you.
And, in my opinion, if you believe the day will come when Muslims will one day NOT BE THE ENEMY, you are grasping at straws, while the ship is sinking.
Bravo !
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Mercy means goodness towards someone beyond what they deserve. Under christian teaching anyone who truly repents can recieve forgiveness due to the grace and mercy of God.
I'm not saying we should be trying to integrate with muslims, and I'm definately not saying that we should not defend ourselves, I just think we should make sure that there is a way for the muslims to escape Islam instead of having to end up with a bullet in their brain. Of course, a muslims who committed a terrorist act and then truly repented would probably either kill themself or spend the majority of their time weeping, they could however think about how terrible what they had done was and set off to try and make sure that no one else ever did anything like it, in that case a valuable ally would have been gained. Remember Paul in the NT, he lead groups of men to murder christians before he discovered the truth.
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QuoteI'm not saying we should be trying to integrate with muslims
That's not the issue, they don't want to integrate with us. I'm asking, pleading, you have a big heart, a wonderful idea of how things should be. Reality says, when Muslims get the upper hand in numbers, non muslims suffer. I'm still not sure of what every person on this forum believes in . Bottom line to the people that believe in what I do, drop the "Jesus" complex . Our enemy wants us dead, and they live to die. It is the duty of the Military to bring this wish upon them, no mercy, none.
Rosie O'donnel made the statement "Terrorists have families too" not a direct quote, but who cares ? When the enemy wants you dead, it's killed or be killed. I will never relent, or back down that our enemies deserve anything, but too be planted under the grass.
If I am asked too have mercy for people that did this....
(http://www.mirrors.org/historical/2001-09-11-World-Trade_Center/wtc/wtc_005.jpg)
NEVER.
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"Because believe it or not there will come a time soon when Arabs are not the enemy anymore... And what will you do then?"
Excuse me for laughing, but the more I read this statement, the more amazed I am by it's stupidity.
This is really marvelous comedy.
What should I be doing now, while I'm waiting for Mohammed to no longer be an enemy ?
I mean, I wouldn't want to jeopardize the panacea that's coming soon by protecting myself and waging war against the enemy now.
So please tell me how soon I can expect Arabs to no longer be the enemy.
Because until you're able to quantify 'soon', I'm afraid I might bust a gut in the interim, laughing my ass off over your naivete.
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QuoteI'm not saying we should be trying to integrate with muslims
That's not the issue, they don't want to integrate with us. I'm asking, pleading, you have a big heart, a wonderful idea of how things should be. Reality says, when Muslims get the upper hand in numbers, non muslims suffer. I'm still not sure of what every person on this forum believes in . Bottom line to the people that believe in what I do, drop the "Jesus" complex . Our enemy wants us dead, and they live to die. It is the duty of the Military to bring this wish upon them, no mercy, none.
Rosie O'donnel made the statement "Terrorists have families too" not a direct quote, but who cares ? When the enemy wants you dead, it's killed or be killed. I will never relent, or back down that our enemies deserve anything, but too be planted under the grass.
If I am asked too have mercy for people that did this....
(http://www.mirrors.org/historical/2001-09-11-World-Trade_Center/wtc/wtc_005.jpg)
NEVER.
I'm with you mosquewatch and I am glad you posted that picture. Most members of our forum don't need it as a reminder but many other Americans do and don't see it enough. For me the animals that did this to our country and anyone that sympathizes with them need to be destroyed its just that simple.
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cjd ,
Thankyou. I don't understand why people, on this forum or off of it, desire Mercy too the enemy, when the want us dead. For the life of me I can not understand this de railed train of thought. Have we as both Jews and Christians not suffered enough at the hands of the muslim nazis?
Have we degenerated into a society that says "Understand why your enemy wants you dead ?" I try too be respectful too people , but I do not understand self hating Jews, or self hating Christians, that can't see the simple fact that loving our enemies, showing mercy too them will get you dead.
WOULD ANY ONE REPSECT A PITBULL, IF IT ATE YOUR CHILDS HEART OUT ? No. One would have that dog put down. I desire the same for the enemy. PUT THEM DOWN.
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Muslims have been the enemy of civilaztion and at war with every other religion for 1400+ years, there will never come a time when they wont be the enemy, unless they cease to exist. The "islamic eutopia" where muslims ruled and everyone "lived at peace" under their rule was BS, living as a dhimmi under islamic rule was a step below death.
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I'm getting a highly upset and this will be my last post.
(http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc_man_jumps_photo.jpg)
If any one has mercy on the people that made this man jump, I don't have a problem, you do.
See my tagline.
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I'm getting a highly upset and this will be my last post.
(http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc_man_jumps_photo.jpg)
If any one has mercy on the people that made this man jump, I don't have a problem, you do.
See my tagline.
Exactly!! The worse part of the whole thing for me was being in a place on 911 far enough to be out of danger but still being able to see the damaged buildings on that day from a distance. I watched our fighter plains circling Manhattan all morning in anticipation that we were under continued attack. After all that I get home that evening and turn on the News and see Muslim Beasts Dancing in the streets of Jersey City in celebration of what was done. How can anyone have mercy or understanding for people like that?
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I fully support using the most offensive and vile language against the muzzies. Show the enemy no mercy.
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"Because if you do, in G-d's eyes, you are no better than them..."
NOT IN TORAH!
Can you tell me where it says to hate your enemies? I can see plenty about killing them, but nothing about hating them.
Yes.
See Proverbs 8:13
Psalms 97:10 Amos 5:15 and many others.
(Now you may tell me that it says to hate "evil, not hate the "enemies", but in certain kinds of enemies, evil is their whole existence and that's why they must be killed physically-even their body has become evil-see G-d's intructions about what to do with the nation of Amelek for instance)
Psalms 9:10 is very instructive as it explains that if you love G-d you automatically must hate evil. There really is no middle ground in human psychology. If you don't hate evil, that means you still harbor some love for it.
Namecalling was used as a vital tactic in World War Two against the German Nazis as it served to demonize our enemy and therefore easier to defeat.
If you're agreeing that we can kill these kinds of enemies, I fail to see how you can say "I'll kill you...but name calling...that's just wrong".
Name calling is not obscenity. With "obscenity" I believe the rules are trying to get at the 4 letter words.
I can assure you that the rule against personal insults is not to be applied for the protection of Muslim Nazis. You can ask Chaim if you're not sure, but I'd bet the farm I'm right on this.
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"Because if you do, in G-d's eyes, you are no better than them..."
NOT IN TORAH!
Can you tell me where it says to hate your enemies? I can see plenty about killing them, but nothing about hating them.
Yes.
See Proverbs 8:13
Psalms 97:10 Amos 5:15 and many others.
(Now you may tell me that it says to hate "evil, not hate the "enemies", but in certain kinds of enemies, evil is their whole existence and that's why they must be killed physically-even their body has become evil-see G-d's intructions about what to do with the nation of Amelek for instance)
Psalms 9:10 is very instructive as it explains that if you love G-d you automatically must have evil. There really is no middle ground in human psychology. If you don't hate evil, that means you still harbor some love for it.
Namecalling was used as a vital tactic in World War Two against the German Nazis as it served to demonize our enemy and therefore easier to defeat.
If you're agreeing that we can kill these kinds of enemies, I fail to see how you can say "I'll kill you...but name calling...that's just wrong".
Name calling is not obscenity. With "obscenity" I believe the rules are trying to get at the 4 letter words.
Lubab,
Is there any screwy concept of loving your enemies and killing them at the same time in Torah as some non-Jews seem to think?
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"Because if you do, in G-d's eyes, you are no better than them..."
NOT IN TORAH!
Can you tell me where it says to hate your enemies? I can see plenty about killing them, but nothing about hating them.
Yes.
See Proverbs 8:13
Psalms 97:10 Amos 5:15 and many others.
(Now you may tell me that it says to hate "evil, not hate the "enemies", but in certain kinds of enemies, evil is their whole existence and that's why they must be killed physically-even their body has become evil-see G-d's intructions about what to do with the nation of Amelek for instance)
Psalms 9:10 is very instructive as it explains that if you love G-d you automatically must have evil. There really is no middle ground in human psychology. If you don't hate evil, that means you still harbor some love for it.
Namecalling was used as a vital tactic in World War Two against the German Nazis as it served to demonize our enemy and therefore easier to defeat.
If you're agreeing that we can kill these kinds of enemies, I fail to see how you can say "I'll kill you...but name calling...that's just wrong".
Name calling is not obscenity. With "obscenity" I believe the rules are trying to get at the 4 letter words.
Lubab,
Is there any screwy concept of loving your enemies and killing them at the same time in Torah as some non-Jews seem to think?
Yeah. Jewish mothers love their kids to death. ;D
It seems like a problem to me, because if you have love, then you will probably start finding reasons not to kill them even when G-d says you should. I dunno. It seems like it could be dangerous.
There are other kinds of enemies however, that we don't want to kill, we just want them to repent.
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Muck,
I have the sneaking suspicion that you don't believe that we can win. Well I have to respectfully disagree, I think we can and we WILL win. I don't think the Muslim terrorists have a snowball's chance in hell. It might even require the nuking of Mecca, but rest assured, those muslims will be forced to face the very frightening reality that Allah just isn't so great.
To Mosquewatch,
I figured you were just having a bad day so I didn't take it personally. But to make it perfectly clear, I was talking about the muslims who aren't terrorists. The one's who have never fired a gun or committed a crime (Yes, believe it or not muslims like these actually exist. lol) I was one of them. I never once thought about killing a Jew or Christian. I never believed whole heartedly in the Quran because to be honest, I was too ignorant to know what the Quran actually says. Like many Iranians, I didn't speak arabic and I couldn't read the Koran. There are whole cities of people who are like this. Most just try to live a good life and be good to others. What I'm trying to say is not all muslims are the enemy. I know that Islam teaches that there are no innocent non-muslims. But I was hoping that Jews and Christians didn't think that way. Because I'm telling you, there are innocent muslims out there. Lots of them. They are what I call MINOs (Muslims in name only). And I can't agree to a policy of total extermination. And I sincerly hope you don't either...
Cyrizian
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There is no such thing as a muslim who is not a terrorist. There are only terrorists and potential terrorists in islam.
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Well I'm pretty sure, newman, that even if I had stayed a muslim, I wouldn't have been a terrorist. I was born a muslim like millions of others, but I never really accepted Islam. And I can tell you that there are so many others like me. Thats why I can't in good conscience, exterminate them all. If you'll recall there were many Nazi dissenters during WWII. Not all germans were Nazis.
Cyrizian
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Cyrizian,
Quote Thats why I can't in good conscience, exterminate them all. No one said that. We say that Muslim terrorists should be eradicated. Not all Germans were Nazis at all, they just agreed with putting Jews into ovens. Not all kkk members hung blacks, they just agreed. Muslim terrorists will be exterminated like rats. Like mice, LIKE THE VERMIN THEY ARE. Wiped out, totally , will be the way of the nazi muslims. THey have no place on this planet. It seems Cyrizian , you are riding the fence, and more people will take my point of view than yours.
So be it. If you decide too have sympathy for the throat cutting scum, I don't think you will last too long on this forum. Maybe you should joing the sean hannity forum. The choice is yours. No peace without freedom, and no mercy too MUSLIM TERRORISTS THAT SHOULD BE KILLED ON A DAILY BASIS.
Cyrizian,
answer this question, should muslim terrorists be killed. Yes or no. I think your time on JTF will depend on the answer. Let me ask this again so you are not confused. SHOULD MUSLIM TERRORISTS BE ERADICATED LIKE RATS ?
THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT.
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I admit it takes time to get used to the name calling here. Personally, I have no problem whatsoever with people calling each other morons/idiots/retards/dumbasses etc, but I feel that worse name calling is usually thrown around here rather lightly. I also don't have a problem with calling Muslims nazis, because that is truly what they are- but what I've noticed is that such names have been thrown at people who simply disagreed with an opposing view. This bothers me because some people mean good and want to support JTF, but they are instantly labeled names like "nazi" if they don't agree 100% with someone's view.
Nazi is a rather harsh insult, let's keep it for the Muzzies.
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aC23 ,
I'll ask you should muslim terrorists nazis be killed or brought back into the fold ?
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To the members of JTF watch your back, we have some people that should not be welcome on this forum.
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To the members of JTF watch your back, we have some people that should not be welcome on this forum.
Unfortunately, MW some people want to peddle NT values of 'blessing our enemies, turning the other cheek, giving the enemy hugs, kisses and BJs!'
I'll go with the original bible as given to the chosen people where the pursuers of life are killed without mercy and evil doers are to be condemned and hated. I'll live longer.
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Cyrizian,
answer this question, should muslim terrorists be killed. Yes or no. I think your time on JTF will depend on the answer. Let me ask this again so you are not confused. SHOULD MUSLIM TERRORISTS BE ERADICATED LIKE RATS ?
THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT.
Most definately. If a muslim tries to kill others, then just like any murderer, they must be put down for the protection of others.
I get the strange feeling that you don't want me on this forum. Am I right?
You say I am riding the fence, but I prefer to think of it as teetering on the edge of a giant chasm. It seems some on this forum have already fallen in and given themselves to blind hatred and the unconditional slaughter of every muslim. I won't fall into that pit. Why? Because I'm a better person than that. And I know God would not approve. I'm just not that heartless and cruel. And maybe thats why I was never a good muslim...
BTW appearantly not all nazis agreed with putting Jews in ovens because some tried to assassinate Hitler.
Cyrizian
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"Muck,
I have the sneaking suspicion that you don't believe that we can win."
Nope. Au contraire, mon ami.
I'm certain we're going to win.
But only when we abandon the absurd idea that being merciless to the enemy makes us as bad as they are.
So the sooner you stop propagating that absurdity, the sooner we can actually achieve victory.
Cyrizian, I don't doubt your contempt for Islam for a moment, but I do doubt your convictions to use whatever means necessary to eradicate it.
Continuously making statements like 'that makes us just as bad as them' tells me you don't want to acknowledge the reality of what will need to be done to achieve victory.
That's understandable, but unacceptable.
The thought of millions or maybe hundreds of millions muzzies having to die is a terrifying one. Your solution of having the 'MINOs' somehow redeem the rest of the Islamic world would be preferable, but it's just not going to happen.
Your intentions are noble.
Your hopes are laudable.
But noble intentions and laudatory hopes aren't going to get the job done.
That's the harsh reality and truth of this struggle.
And until this war is won and Islam is eradicated there is simply no room for niceties or coddling the enemy in any form.
We will prevail, but we're not going to do so by convincing individual moozies that Islam is a bunch of crap or by loving them to death.
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To the members of JTF watch your back, we have some people that should not be welcome on this forum.
Unfortunately, MW some people want to peddle NT values of 'blessing our enemies, turning the other cheek, giving the enemy hugs, kisses and BJs!'
I'll go with the original bible as given to the chosen people where the pursuers of life are killed without mercy and evil doers are to be condemned and hated. I'll live longer.
If I didn't know any better, newman, I would think your trying to drive a wedge between Christians and Jews.... you might want to rethink that statement.
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aC23 ,
I'll ask you should muslim terrorists nazis be killed or brought back into the fold ?
Slaughtered to the last child. What does that have to do with the name calling though?
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To the members of JTF watch your back, we have some people that should not be welcome on this forum.
Unfortunately, MW some people want to peddle NT values of 'blessing our enemies, turning the other cheek, giving the enemy hugs, kisses and BJs!'
I'll go with the original bible as given to the chosen people where the pursuers of life are killed without mercy and evil doers are to be condemned and hated. I'll live longer.
If I didn't know any better, newman, I would think your trying to drive a wedge between Christians and Jews.... you might want to rethink that statement.
I said 'some'!.........not all or even most.....but 'some'.
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YOU ARE A FOOL, NEWMAN HAS NEVER DONE THAT, Newman has never done this. This is a false accusation, DROP THESE IDIOTS ON THE GROUND.
NEWMAN HAS NEVER DONE SUCH THINGS, WHY ALLOW OUR TRUE MEMBERS TOO BE ATTACKED LIKE THIS ? KICK THE IDIOTS TOO THE CURB.
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I know but phrases like
Unfortunately, MW some people want to peddle NT values of 'blessing our enemies, turning the other cheek, giving the enemy hugs, kisses and BJs!'
is extremely disrespectful to Christians. I am not disrespectful to Jews and Noachides and I only ask the same in return. Please refrain from such statements in the future.
Cyrizian
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WOW Mosquewatch I think you had too much coffee today... Maybe everyday... But seriously, take a chill pill. I'm not calling you an idiot am I? Please stop the insults...
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I submit that Cyrizian and ac23 be bounced into oblivion. Newman has been attacked, I was waiting on this. Drop off the planet, death too muslim terrorists, kill every son of a gun mujahadin we can find. MODS HELP!!
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I submit that Cyrizian and ac23 be bounced into oblivion. Newman has been attacked, I was waiting on this. Drop off the planet, death too muslim terrorists, kill every son of a gun mujahadin we can find. MODS HELP!!
Newman is a big boy. Let him defend himself.
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is extremely disrespectful to Christians
Im not offended nor do I feel disrespected, he has never offended me in any way. I dont believe in turning the other anything where muslims are concerned, that usually leads to your head being separated from your body. I support what he said 100%, there are bleeding heart liberal christians like there are bleeding heart anything else and they are just as dumb.
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I submit that Cyrizian and ac23 be bounced into oblivion. Newman has been attacked, I was waiting on this. Drop off the planet, death too muslim terrorists, kill every son of a gun mujahadin we can find. MODS HELP!!
It's cool MW......
I can bite these guys clean in two, but I'm being diplomatic ( by my standards, anyway). They'll keep.
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is extremely disrespectful to Christians
Im not offended nor do I feel disrespected, he has never offended me in any way. I dont believe in turning the other anything where muslims are concerned, that usually leads to your head being separated from your body. I support what he said 100%, there are bleeding heart liberal christians like there are bleeding heart anything else and they are just as dumb.
.......And THANKYOU, Iron Lady. :-*
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As forum rules go, why do we let liberal idiots infiltrate the JTF forum ? When they attack us, we allow it ? Why is this ? These idiots we let them speak and talk forever, and we know the goal. They be damned.
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As forum rules go, why do we let liberal idiots infiltrate the JTF forum ? When they attack us, we allow it ? Why is this ? These idiots we let them speak and talk forever, and we know the goal. They be darned.
Look, from time to time this difference in theology happens. We've endured idiot Quakers refusing to fight Japs, so we'll get a few christians bunging on that 'love everybody' crap. You get used to it.
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I don't get used too it, maybe that's my problem. Or maybe it is the solution. We have some rats on the JTF forum. People that in my opinion have no idea what they signed up for.
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Newman's comment about giving BJ's to mooozies was definitely a bit strong and over the top, but it served the purpose of hammering home a point.
For you to accuse him of seeking to drive a wedge between Christians and Jews or saying he's being disrespectful to Christians is uncalled for.
Since you want to play the 'disrespect' game, I find your insistence on preaching turning the other cheek and loving thy enemy to be disrespectful to Jews and driving a wedge between Christians and Jews. How do you like them apples ?
Two can play the game Cyrizian.
Cyrizian, just to show you I'm not totally opposed to turning the cheek, I'm doing so right now, and MOONING you.
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See? This kind of stuff is exactly what I'm talking about.
mosquewatch, I went against one of your views, and now you think I should be "bounced" into oblivion.
You guys turn people away way too fast. I am not talking about Muslim scum, I am talking about legitimate people who might not share your views and who, if spoken to in a civil manner, might change their views to resemble yours.
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See? This kind of stuff is exactly what I'm talking about.
mosquewatch, I went against one of your views, and now you think I should be "bounced" into oblivion.
You guys turn people away way too fast. I am not talking about Muslim scum, I am talking about legitimate people who might not share your views and who, if spoken to in a civil manner, might change their views to resemble yours.
This guy is right.
I can completely conceive of an intelligent enemy coming on this forum, pretending to be something that he is not, thus turning off potential allies.
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Muck,
You are the most vindictive person I have ever met. :D I can't help but laugh at your posts. I'm not trying to get in a conflict with you. But you seem so intent on making me an enemy. Why?
mosquewatch,
Please calm down. No one is attacking you.
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Cyr, there's nothing vindictive about my posts to you.
Do we conflict ?
You bet.
I must confess I don't like or share many of your views and by extension, I don't like you too much.
I don't really consider you an enemy.
Just a preachy, naive, somewhat annoying, poster.
We're going to continue to conflict too.
You're not about to change your views and I'm not changing mine either.
So stop whining and take your medicine like a man, because as long as you continue with some of your absurd posts, I'm going to be here pointing them out.
And I say that without any vindictiveness.
BTW, I'm STILL mooning you right now !
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Cyr, there's nothing vindictive about my posts to you.
Do we conflict ?
You bet.
I must confess I don't like or share many of your views and by extension, I don't like you too much.
I don't really consider you an enemy.
Just a preachy, naive, somewhat annoying, poster.
We're going to continue to conflict too.
You're not about to change your views and I'm not changing mine either.
So stop whining and take your medicine like a man, because as long as you continue with some of your absurd posts, I'm going to be here pointing them out.
And I say that without any vindictiveness.
BTW, I'm STILL mooning you right now !
Muck, based on what I've read of this thread, your attacks on Cyrizan seem to be...shall we say...over the top.
I'm not saying he's right. I'm saying that his view is held by many who are new to the forum and we have to deal with it and explain before we go into full-throttle psychological warfare flaming.
Doing that could really hurt the forum.
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I love you too, Muck ::)
And maybe your right. Maybe I am naive. Is it naive to believe that we don't have to kill them all? That maybe muslims can see that islam doesn't work and turn away from it all on their own?
I don't live in Israel and I have no idea what its like to fear for my life everyday. But I can't advocate the extermination of every muslim on earth. Its not practical anyway - theres like 1 billion of them.
Maybe my posts are absurd, but I was given a second chance, and I can't be a hypocrite, I have to offer this same chance to others. And I have to believe that they can see that Islam is evil too. Is that really so wrong? Is that really so naive? Is that really so absurd?
I don't know...
Cyrizian
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Sorry you feel that way, lubab.
If you think this is 'full-throttle psychological warfare flaming', you haven't really seen me in action.
As far as demolishing Cyrizian's ill advised stances and irrational beliefs being harmful to the forum, I strongly disagree.
On the contrary, that's what makes this forum lively, entertaining, thought provoking, and fun.
Can you imagine how mundane and ridiculously boring this board would be, if Cyrizian and others were able to post nonsense without being chastised and challenged ?
I thought the purpose of this forum was to enable JTFers to get together to discuss and argue issues and ideas and have fun while working for the good of Israel and America and the West. (And also blast the occasional mooozie dumb enough to come in our house.)
That's exactly what I'm doing.
And Cyrizian, I know you're reading this, and I'm STILL mooning you.
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I thought the purpose of this forum was to enable JTFers to get together to discuss and argue issues and ideas and have fun while working for the good of Israel and America and the West. (And also blast the occasional mooozie dumb enough to come in our house.)
But it's not just for JTFers. It's also for the future JTFers.
The ones who don't yet agree with us, but with time explanation and logic will come around.
I don't know if Cyrezian is one of those people, but correct me if I'm wrong, from what I've seen he's not a lost cause just yet, and I think he still deserves respect on this forum.
If he came here calling for Jihad I'd agree with you.
But this mooning is an unauthorized mooning. Mooning needs to be limited to certain situations when mooning is the last resort
If you think someone is deserving of a moon I ask that you submit your mooning request to the appropriate moderators so they can review your mooning application. ;D
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I thought the purpose of this forum was to enable JTFers to get together to discuss and argue issues and ideas and have fun while working for the good of Israel and America and the West. (And also blast the occasional mooozie dumb enough to come in our house.)
But it's not just for JTFers. It's also for the future JTFers.
The ones who don't yet agree with us, but with time explanation and logic will come around.
I don't know if Cyrezian is one of those people, but correct me if I'm wrong, from what I've seen he's not a lost cause just yet, and I think he still deserves respect on this forum.
If he came here calling for Jihad I'd agree with you.
But this mooning is an unauthorized mooning. Mooning needs to be limited to certain situations when mooning is the last resort
If you think someone is deserving of a moon I ask that you submit your mooning request to the appropriate moderators so they can review your mooning application. ;D
Bravo! ;D ;D
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I thought the purpose of this forum was to enable JTFers to get together to discuss and argue issues and ideas and have fun while working for the good of Israel and America and the West. (And also blast the occasional mooozie dumb enough to come in our house.)
But it's not just for JTFers. It's also for the future JTFers.
The ones who don't yet agree with us, but with time explanation and logic will come around.
I don't know if Cyrezian is one of those people, but correct me if I'm wrong, from what I've seen he's not a lost cause just yet, and I think he still deserves respect on this forum.
If he came here calling for Jihad I'd agree with you.
But this mooning is an unauthorized mooning. Mooning needs to be limited to certain situations when mooning is the last resort
If you think someone is deserving of a moon I ask that you submit your mooning request to the appropriate moderators so they can review your mooning application. ;D
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
We've just made history!
That's the first ever Rabbinical ruling on 'mooning'.
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Cyrizian, yes the belief that you're going to eradicate Islam by redeeming individual Muslims is naive.
That's not to say that individual mooozies that are MINOs as you once were can't be shown what evil Islam is.
Of course mooozies that haven't fully embraced Islam can be brought over to the right side.
No one is denying that.
But the idea and hope that this alone can eradicate Islam is DANGEROUSLY naive.
And when you compound this dangerously naive belief by cajoling members of this forum who advocate showing moozies no mercy as 'being no better than the moozies' you're deserving of a verbal beatdown.
Like I said Cyr, I know you mean well. Your hopes and aspirations come from a good place. I just think they're dangerously naive.
BTW Cyrizian, I've temporarily discontinued mooning you pending approval of the Rabbinical authorities !!
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Cyrizian, yes the belief that you're going to eradicate Islam by redeeming individual Muslims is naive.
That's not to say that individual mooozies that are MINOs as you once were can't be shown what evil Islam is.
Of course mooozies that haven't fully embraced Islam can be brought over to the right side.
No one is denying that.
But the idea and hope that this alone can eradicate Islam is DANGEROUSLY naive.
And when you compound this dangerously naive belief by cajoling members of this forum who advocate showing moozies no mercy as 'being no better than the moozies' you're deserving of a verbal beatdown.
Like I said Cyr, I know you mean well. Your hopes and aspirations come from a good place. I just think they're dangerously naive.
BTW Cyrizian, I've temporarily discontinued mooning you pending approval of the Rabbinical authorities !!
I'm glad you've got your pants back on where they belong.
Incidentally, I have to agree with Cyrezian in a way. I don't think it will be neccesary ever to exterminate all the Muslims.
I believe that when Jews are acting as Jews should, you will see a different Arab.
Just imagine a Torah observant uncompromising government in Israel. Think about how that would change the equasion.
Muslims get their inspiration to attack because they think they've got the moral high-ground. They think their the zealots willing to give everything for their G-d, and we're the material secularist infidels.
Imagine a Jewish government who are the real religious zealots, only zealots for a true religion, not a false one.
One that is committed to G-d true will at all costs. One that exposes and promotes the truth of the Torah to the world without apology.
One that speaks the truth because it's the truth and tell the Arabs that this land is not ours because the UN said so, but because the Torah says so and if your Koran says otherwise than it's is a pack of lies.
One that tell the Arab world that if they dare try anything against the Jewish state we'll drop a nuke on your city, not because it's the right thing to do but because that's what the G-d of Israel commands.
I think you will see a big change in the Arab world if Jews acted like that. I believe that the vast majority would drop Islam, come to respect and help the Jews.
The Messianic prophesies predict such an occurance. One in which Yishmael will repent.
In practical terms, you don't really have to kill Arabs. You just have to threaten to kill them, show them whose boss, and they fall into line.
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BTW Cyrizian, I've temporarily discontinued mooning you pending approval of the Rabbinical authorities !!
Thanks muck :D
You might get sunburn if you keep that up much longer :laugh:
But the idea and hope that this alone can eradicate Islam is DANGEROUSLY naive.
And I think killing 1 billion muslims is also pretty naive, but then again, thats just me...
Thanks lubab ;D
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I think you will see a big change in the Arab world if Jews acted like that. I believe that the vast majority would drop Islam, come to respect and help the Jews.
I think you would see some change.
But I don't think that would convince the majority of mooozies to abandon Islam and help the Jews.
Nope, don't see that happening, but it's worth a try and it's the right thing to do.
And if that doesn't work there's also the thermonuclear brand of persuasion to fall back to.
Now if Israeli scientists could find a way to isolate the moooozie gene and develop a genetic weapon, we might not have to worry about radiation.
Still, a billion rotting mooozie corpses would smell really bad and pose a health hazard to surviving humans.
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I think you will see a big change in the Arab world if Jews acted like that. I believe that the vast majority would drop Islam, come to respect and help the Jews.
I think you would see some change.
But I don't think that would convince the majority of mooozies to abandon Islam and help the Jews.
Nope, don't see that happening, but it's worth a try and it's the right thing to do.
And if that doesn't work there's also the thermonuclear brand of persuasion to fall back to.
Now if Israeli scientists could find a way to isolate the moooozie gene and develop a genetic weapon, we might not have to worry about radiation.
Still, a billion rotting mooozie corpses would smell really bad and pose a health hazard to surviving humans.
Yes, but a lot of Greater Israel is desert that needs to be fertilised. 250 million arab, muzzie carcasses would be good for that. Just spread 'em about & plough 'em in.
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I love you too, Muck ::)
And maybe your right. Maybe I am naive. Is it naive to believe that we don't have to kill them all? That maybe muslims can see that islam doesn't work and turn away from it all on their own?
Maybe my posts are absurd, but I was given a second chance, and I can't be a hypocrite, I have to offer this same chance to others. And I have to believe that they can see that Islam is evil too. Is that really so wrong? Is that really so naive? Is that really so absurd?
You were given a second chance because it was possible for you to have a second chance. You said yourself you never really believed in Islam or were even able to read the Quran, so of course you were able to drift away from Islam, because you never believed in it in the first place.
You're right about offering the same chance to MINOs, but what are MINOs? They're apostate Muslims. If you don't believe in Islam and you can't even read and don't know what's in the Quran, you are an apostate and you were never a Muslim to begin with.
When we talk about eradicating Muslims, we mean real Muslims who follow Mohammedan Islam.
If you believe that devout Muslims who follow the kind of Islam that Mohammed practiced can be redeemed and see the evil of Islam then yes, that belief is wrong.
It would be wrong because it would prevent any sort of action against Islam and it would allow Islam to spread. While you're sitting idle hoping that Muslims figure out on their own that Islam is evil, thousands of people are being converted daily. Is it wrong to let that happen? Yes, it's wrong, not only for yourself but for the people who are being converted and who are unwittingly following a Satanic religion.
Is it really so naive you ask? How many people over the centuries who fully believe in Mohammedan Islam figured out that what they're doing is evil and wrong? Is that what caused Islam to spread over the entire globe?
Is it absurd? Yes it's absurd because it's something that doesn't happen in real life. That's the definition of absurd, it's not grounded in reality.
I frankly don't care if the "peaceful Muslims" ever see the light. They aren't the threat to us, they aren't the ones strapping bombs on to kill us for "allah" (Satan) I only care whether the ones who would do us harm would find the err in their ways, and it's been demonstrated throughout history that they're not capable of that. People who believe truly in Islam have renounced their humanity and no longer have the capacity of using their critical reasoning abilities. Enoughs enough, it's much too late already to accept that true believers in Islam are beyond all redemption, at which point the necessity to physically liquidate them all comes into effect.
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Then I must ask Ze'ev, how does one distinguish between the two kinds of muslims. Or maybe you don't even try, instead you kill indiscriminately because its just too naive and absurd to spend time trying to save muslim's souls. Why? Because thats the easy way out. You just couldn't be bothered to try and show them the Koran is full of lies. You tell yourself that they will never listen so whats the point? Lets just kill them all!
Do you realize what you sound like?
Look in the mirror. You might be surprised at what you see...
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I don't agree. I do think it's a complete waste of time arguing with Muslims. The only Muslims that have the chance to have some sense knocked into them are the secular Muslims. Everyone else is a waste of time and effort
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Again I pose the question, how do you know if they are the secular kind of muslim if you don't talk to them?
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When they kill an infidel.
(http://www.prophetofdoom.net/pics/Islamic_Terrorism_Timeline_1970/Israel_bus_bomb.jpg)
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When they kill an infidel.
(http://www.prophetofdoom.net/pics/Islamic_Terrorism_Timeline_1970/Israel_bus_bomb.jpg)
I cannot agree with that assessment, because there are many muslims who are intending to kill infidels but have not yet done so.
I think the best solution would be re-education camps all muslims should be taken to camps where they will be taught not to be muslim, and would not be allowed to leave untill the supervisors are certain that they have left Islam, those who have allready committed criminal offences could then be tried for their offences after leaving the camp.
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When they kill an infidel.
(http://www.prophetofdoom.net/pics/Islamic_Terrorism_Timeline_1970/Israel_bus_bomb.jpg)
I cannot agree with that assessment, because there are many muslims who are intending to kill infidels but have not yet done so.
I think the best solution would be re-education camps all muslims should be taken to camps where they will be taught not to be muslim, and would not be allowed to leave untill the supervisors are certain that they have left Islam, those who have allready committed criminal offences could then be tried for their offences after leaving the camp.
I agree with the camps.......but not in the re-education part.
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I have an opinion on the "camp" issue. It may be highly offensive too some Jews on this forum, so I will hold off on my opinoin unless the Mods grant me permission to post before hand.
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I have an opinion on the "camp" issue. It may be highly offensive too some Jews on this forum, so I will hold off on my opinoin unless the Mods grant me permission to post before hand.
As it was me that suggested the camps idea, could you pm me your opinion?
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Ultimately, we all want the same thing... but we just have different methods. I don't have the stomach for the mass slaughter of a billion people. I'm sure we can find a more creative, practical and efficient method of destroying islam.
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It's because you DON'T HAVE THE STOMACH TOO WIN THE WAR THAT IS AGAINST US, IS WHY YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.
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When will we realize. The problem is not the Muslims. The problem is the Jews.
We are the ones who have lied to them and told them that the land of Israel does not really belong to us.
We created suicide bombers when we gave them the Oslo accords.
If we didn't keep offering them the hope of destroying us, they would lose their morale and give up.
The Midrash says that the reason gentiles hate the Jews is because we've been hiding the truth from them for so long.
When the Jewish problem is resolved, I think you will see a dramatic change in the whole geopolitical situation. I think the Arab and Muslim problems would start to dissipate as a matter of course.
Everything that goes on in the world in some way results from how the Jews behave. In the era of the Temple we saw this clearly.
When the Jews did what G-d wanted, there was rain, plenty, peace and all the rest of it.
Of course the terrorists must be killed, but not because we enjoy it, but because G-d commands it. When we do that, you'll see a lot fewer terrorists automatically.
I know this is not typical JTF speak, but this I believe is the Torah view on the situation.
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Then I must ask Ze'ev, how does one distinguish between the two kinds of muslims. Or maybe you don't even try, instead you kill indiscriminately because its just too naive and absurd to spend time trying to save muslim's souls. Why? Because thats the easy way out. You just couldn't be bothered to try and show them the Koran is full of lies. You tell yourself that they will never listen so whats the point? Lets just kill them all!
Do you realize what you sound like?
Look in the mirror. You might be surprised at what you see...
UH OH.
Here we go again with another one of Cyrizian's patented 'You're just as bad as the moooozies' comments.
What will Ze'ev see when he looks in the mirror, Cyrizian ?
A Nazi ?
Someone just as evil as the mooooozies ?
You just can't help yourself, can you ?
You insist on drawing a moral equivalency that doesn't exist in an objective reality.
I guess unless Ze'ev makes an effort to save a moooozies soul he's an indiscriminant killer.
"Ultimately, we all want the same thing... but we just have different methods. I don't have the stomach for the mass slaughter of a billion people. I'm sure we can find a more creative, practical and efficient method of destroying islam."
Can anyone in his right mind imagine fighting a war and winning with Cyrizian in charge ??
=================================================
General Cyrizian: "Private Jabotinsky, you're being brought up on charges of indiscriminantly killing Muslims !"
Private Jabotinsky: "But General, we have intelligence proving they were planning a major attack and they were armed to the teeth. "
General Cyrizian: "That might be true, but did you try to save their souls before you killed them ?"
Private Jabotinsky: "No sir, I didn't. There wasn't time and there's simply no sure or safe way to do that, sir. "
General Cyrizian: "That's immaterial, Private. You failed to act creatively, efficiently or use practical measures when facing the enemy. You're guilty of killing indiscriminantly. You made no effort to save their souls and must face the consequences."
===============================================
Tell you what, Cyrizian.
Let's put you in charge of saving moooozie souls.
You can come up with some means of identifying MINOs that might be able to be 'saved'.
Once you're satisfied that every possible moooozie that can be saved, has been saved, we'll proceed with fighting this war with the intent of winning. Of course, winning this war will mean maximizing moooozie casualties and minimizing our own.
But until you're satisfied we won't kill a single mooozie.
Wouldn't want to be accused of 'being just as bad as they are' or of 'indiscriminant killing', would we ?
We won't make a move without your specific approval detailing exactly which moooozies can be 'discriminantly' killed with your blessings.
So I suggest you get busy deciding which mooozies can be saved and how you're going to save them.
We'll all be waiting to hear from you.
I'm just afraid we'll be waiting for another 1400 years of Islamic barbarism.
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What Cyrizian is basically saying is that the Jews are just as bad as the neck cutting muslims. And it's the Jews fault. Wonderful too have such great people on this forum. I guess it's always the Jew's fault. Those evil Jews, controlling the world, the teleivision, the movies. NAZIS MAKE ME SICK.
I'M DONE WITH TROLLS.
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Then I must ask Ze'ev, how does one distinguish between the two kinds of muslims. Or maybe you don't even try, instead you kill indiscriminately because its just too naive and absurd to spend time trying to save muslim's souls. Why? Because thats the easy way out. You just couldn't be bothered to try and show them the Koran is full of lies. You tell yourself that they will never listen so whats the point? Lets just kill them all!
Do you realize what you sound like?
Look in the mirror. You might be surprised at what you see...
UH OH.
Here we go again with another one of Cyrizian's patented 'You're just as bad as the moooozies' comments.
What will Ze'ev see when he looks in the mirror, Cyrizian ?
A Nazi ?
Someone just as evil as the mooooozies ?
You just can't help yourself, can you ?
You insist on drawing a moral equivalency that doesn't exist in an objective reality.
I guess unless Ze'ev makes an effort to save a moooozies soul he's an indiscriminant killer.
"Ultimately, we all want the same thing... but we just have different methods. I don't have the stomach for the mass slaughter of a billion people. I'm sure we can find a more creative, practical and efficient method of destroying islam."
Can anyone in his right mind imagine fighting a war and winning with Cyrizian in charge ??
=================================================
General Cyrizian: "Private Jabotinsky, you're being brought up on charges of indiscriminantly killing Muslims !"
Private Jabotinsky: "But General, we have intelligence proving they were planning a major attack and they were armed to the teeth. "
General Cyrizian: "That might be true, but did you try to save their souls before you killed them ?"
Private Jabotinsky: "No sir, I didn't. There wasn't time and there's simply no sure or safe way to do that, sir. "
General Cyrizian: "That's immaterial, Private. You failed to act creatively, efficiently or use practical measures when facing the enemy. You're guilty of killing indiscriminantly. You made no effort to save their souls and must face the consequences."
===============================================
Tell you what, Cyrizian.
Let's put you in charge of saving moooozie souls.
You can come up with some means of identifying MINOs that might be able to be 'saved'.
Once you're satisfied that every possible moooozie that can be saved, has been saved, we'll proceed with fighting this war with the intent of winning. Of course, winning this war will mean maximizing moooozie casualties and minimizing our own.
But until you're satisfied we won't kill a single mooozie.
Wouldn't want to be accused of 'being just as bad as they are' or of 'indiscriminant killing', would we ?
We won't make a move without your specific approval detailing exactly which moooozies can be 'discriminantly' killed with your blessings.
So I suggest you get busy deciding which mooozies can be saved and how you're going to save them.
We'll all be waiting to hear from you.
I'm just afraid we'll be waiting for another 1400 years of Islamic barbarism.
Now this is a great post.
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Muck and mosquewatch,
Maybe we should just nuke the whole middle east and kill every single moozie Jew christian or whatever that possibly gets in the way of what we want! I want you two to know that I would gladly put a bullet in your brains if you EVER tried to do such a thing! Mindless killing is not what we are about and I would expect better from you... NO! G-d EXPECTS BETTER OF YOU!
If you had intellegence that said that they were planning a major attack and were armed to the teeth, than I would be the first one to volunteer! But I will not have you preach on this forum that we should Kill all Moozies!
you are hurting this forum and I know the Mods would not appreciate it! I can see many people coming on this forum and reading your posts and claim that we are a "racist organization that is hell bent on the mass murder of Muslims everywhere." I wonder how that would look to all the potential members we might gain.
Cyrizian
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(http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-Hitler11cx.jpg) GO SAVE THIS SOUL, YOU CAN'T HE'S DEAD , AND THANK G-D. If I am a problem with this forum the Mods will bounce me, understand this, I am not. I have spoken with some on the phone. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM ON THIS FORUM. NOT I.
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And further more you say we should have mercy too our enemies like this piece of garbage. (http://www.ocolly.okstate.edu/issues/2001_Fall/011011/pix/1.%20OSAMA%20BIN%20LADEN.jpg) I hope he is dead, if not, one day he will be . Sod your "mercy too the enemy garbage".
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People like you need to be put down just as badly as the Islamonazis. Take your mass murder supporting hate speach somewhere else!
Cyrizian
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Finally the truth comes out.
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Its always been there, too bad you can't see past your own ego to find it...
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People like you need to be put down just as badly as the Islamonazis. Take your mass murder supporting hate speach somewhere else!
Cyrizian
So I should be "Put down", what makes you better than me ?
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And how are you going too
"put me down" ? I thought you were against murder of those that disagree with you ?
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Well for one thing, I don't support the mass extermination of an entire group of people...
That must count for something.
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you evidently approve of "putting me down" explain this too the forum.
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Know this, I would not enjoy killing you, but I would do whatever it took to stop you from an act that would make hitler proud!
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Then I take it you are in favor of killing me ?
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It's a yes or no question, do you want me dead or not ?
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Answer ?
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Know this, I would not enjoy killing you, but I would do whatever it took to stop you from an act that would make hitler proud!
Death threat ?
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Know this, I would not enjoy killing you, but I would do whatever it took to stop you from an act that would make hitler proud!
Alright Cyrizian. This is about all I can take of this. Thread is locked and if I hear any more talk about killing great members of our forum consider yourself gone.
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This is COMPLETELY unacceptable!
and on a thread specifying the rules... I am in shock.
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Cyrizian, responding with a death threat over killing muslims is... beyond hypocritical.
The Bible commands the Jewish people to kill those who try to kill us. We try for peace multiple times and if it does not succeed, then there will never be peace and we are commanded to defend ourselves. Why? Because they never wanted peace to begin with. The muslims want world domination. This is not some extermination for the sake of race or religion (like the evil nazi hitler). Wake up, man! It's self defense!
What's the point? To save as many human lives as possible. When a group of people rise up together and shout "DEATH TO AMERICA! DEATH TO ISRAEL!", they aren't just kidding around or teasing. THEY MEAN IT.
So if you just let the muslims kill more and more people... then how can we answer to G-d when they kill innocent people in the name of jihad and their sick koran? How do you answer to that? We have to answer for what we do (and what we fail to do) someday. If someone broke into your home and tried to kill your family and you did nothing... how would you be able to live with yourself? We are commanded to love one another as we love ourselves - with the exception of evil people. Show compassion on the right people, Cyrizian. If you are kind to the cruel, you will eventually be cruel to the kind.
How many people, if (G-d forbid) they thought their child had died but, later, found out it was someone else who died, wouldn't celebrate? But if we were truly righteous, we would weep for others as if it was our own - because we would feel their pain (like Hashem does). We have to stop the murder. But this doesn't mean we weep for those who want MURDER and have murder embedded into their souls! Should we just allow this cycle?
So are we supposed to just do nothing and let the murder continue? I we destroyed islam, how many countless lives of good people would it save in the end? I know this is going to sound harsh to you... but remember that the Bible told us to wipe out entire groups of people! Is G-d wrong? No, of course not!
Mohammad was a desert warrior who forced his evil religion by penalty of death. This is an insane religion with one purpose... to DESTROY. There are some people who you cannot save. To think you can save them is ignorant and arrogant. You think they want you to save them? Their entire lives (and egos) are invested and their minds are poisoned beyond repair from birth.
Do I like the idea of killing people? G-d forbid!! I have respect for human life! But we CANNOT allow an evil death cult to destroy the planet because they want eternal sex with virgins.
I'm sorry, but when an entire nation of people band together for our destruction, someone has to go... and I'd rather it be evil, jealous, lazy, hate-filled, violent, racist nazis who have brought nothing to this world other than suffering and death than the chosen people who have done so much for this planet in every area of science, culture, religion, philosophy, and have been a light unto the nations... or the righteous gentiles who have worked so hard to contribute to the world in countless ways.
There are no moderate muslims. There are some so-called "muslims" who are not really muslim by definition of the koran. You cannot be a true muslim and follow the koran if your forsake jihad. It is a sick and evil religion that has no place in a civilized world. Someday... we WILL have to do something about it. This is not going to go away and, eventual, there will be a confrontation. To deny this is naive and ignorant. That's the mistake our corrupt governments have made.
Cyrizian, if you ever threaten another person on this forum, I will ban you immediately. I am not playing around with this. I'm still considering it so you are not off the hook. The ONLY reason you are not already banned is because of the relationship we have with you in the forum. I will never allow the lives of the members to be threatened. I'm waiting for you to respond with a complete apology. If you do not, then I have no choice but to ban you from this forum forever. I cannot be more clear.
Muck, you helped start this mess and instigated a fight. If you do not get control of your anger and tongue, you will not be a part of this forum. G-d forbid if I let a single person destroy the UNITY of this group because they enjoy insulting for the sake of insults. This is NOT how G-d wants us to behave. G-d does not approve of us using foul language, things that give the appearance of evil (like mooning), or a person who tempts others to anger.
Lubab, thank you for your wisdom and council. You did the right thing 100%! I thought about you earlier today and was glad we had a forum Rabbi and my respect goes out to you. We all need more Torah and you are a light in this forum.
I am unlocking this thread and awaiting an apology. Due to the circumstances, any post that is off topic will be immediately removed.
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Firstly, I want to apologize to Jeffguy. I know this has caused you considerable trouble and I want you to know I never meant for that to happen. You have been very just in your actions.
Secondly, there are some members of this forum that, frankly, scare me - and will scare future potential members as well. But I am willing to put aside my grievances with them for the sake of the movement. I know that unity is all important here and is the only way we will accomplish our goals. I know that there are muslims that have to be killed, I have never disputed that fact. But there is a line that I cannot cross called "belief in the total extermination of muslims." I will not approve of mass murder. As long as this movement does not cross that line, I am with you forever and I am willing to make sacrifices to that end.
And here is my first sacrifice:
I apologize to JTF for breaking the forum rules and threatening (in whatever capacity) another member of this forum.
If you still decide to ban me, Jeffguy, I want you to know that you have been a good friend to me and I have enjoyed my time here.
Cyrizian
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Firstly, I want to apologize to Jeffguy. I know this has caused you considerable trouble and I want you to know I never meant for that to happen. You have been very just in your actions.
Secondly, there are some members of this forum that, frankly, scare me - and will scare future potential members as well. But I am willing to put aside my grievances with them for the sake of the movement. I know that unity is all important here and is the only way we will accomplish our goals. I know that there are muslims that have to be killed, I have never disputed that fact. But there is a line that I cannot cross called "belief in the total extermination of muslims." I will not approve of mass murder. As long as this movement does not cross that line, I am with you forever and I am willing to make sacrifices to that end.
And here is my first sacrifice:
I apologize to JTF for breaking the forum rules and threatening (in whatever capacity) another member of this forum.
If you still decide to ban me, Jeffguy, I want you to know that you have been a good friend to me and I have enjoyed my time here.
Cyrizian
Bravo.
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In defense of Muck:
These problems that occasionally arise are not instigated by Muck or myself. They are instigated by a the same 1 or 2 christians every time.
And before you accuse me of attacking christians, let me point out that we have heaps of christians on this forum who cause no problems at all.
What these 1 or 2 individuals are doing is proselytising by stealth.
What is proelytising by stealth? Read their posts and you will see. These people know full well that they can't come on here and demand we accept 'that man' as Messiach. So instead, they take an underhand sneaky way of doing the same thing by insisting that we accept NT philosophies that are contrary to Torah. Take the trouble to read over their posts if you don't believe me. By declaring that G-d requies us to bless our enemies, turn the other cheek, love evil doers or anything else advocated by 'that man' in the NT (and all of which is the complete opposite of Torah) is nothing but PROSELYTISING BY STEALTH.
Everyone is free to follow the theology of his/her choice. HOWEVER, this is a JEWISH- TORAH forum. If certain individuals are going to insist on the rest of us adhering to heretical, anti-Torah, anti-Jewish BS then they should expect righteous Jews like Muck to challenge them. Muck is absolutely right to do so. All righteous people be they Jew or christian must unite in common cause, but there can be no quarter given to any attempt at proselytising no matter how subtle or sneaky. NT/ christian doctrine cannot be elevated over Jewish Torah principles.
I seek a clear ruling once and for all.
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newman, ido you check your cupboard for mad axe-wielders before going to bed at night?
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newman, ido you check your cupboard for mad axe-wielders before going to bed at night?
No need.........I AM the mad axe-wielder.
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newman, ido you check your cupboard for mad axe-wielders before going to bed at night?
No need.........I AM the mad axe-wielder.
I'm also guessing that you never drink or eat anything that you haven't prepared yourself, and bought the ingredients for yourself? While I'm at it, I presume you never open your post for fear of letter bombs?
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newman, ido you check your cupboard for mad axe-wielders before going to bed at night?
No need.........I AM the mad axe-wielder.
I'm also guessing that you never drink or eat anything that you haven't prepared yourself, and bought the ingredients for yourself? While I'm at it, I presume you never open your post for fear of letter bombs?
What's the matter, ftf?
Got a bee up your skirt because someone's on to your caper?
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Thanks for the defense Newman.
I appreciate that.
But it's not really necessary.
Honestly, this has nothing to do with proselytising in this particular instance.
I've already sent Jeffguy a private message detailing my version of what's occurred in this thread. I'm sure other posters can review the thread and come to their own conclusions as to who instigated what, the use of insults, foul language, etc. It's all there for anyone to see.
As far as Cyrizian's 'apology', I notice he apologized to Jeffguy and to JTF but not to the people he threatened to 'put a bullet in the head' of.
Kind of like when moooozies condemn their terrorism against Israelis, not because they have any genuine remorse, but because it harms the Paleostinkian cause.
Not that any apology is necessary as far as I'm concerned, because Cyrizian putting a bullet in my head is as likely to happen as his premise that Arabs will no longer be enemies of the Jews sometime soon.
But thanks for having my back Newman.
I appreciate it and you can count on me having yours too.
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newman: the idea that I was alluding to is that you are paranoid and are seeing threats that aren't there.
Muck: If you re-read Cyrizians posts, he only said that he would kill you if you were about to murder a lot of muslims without first doing anything to check that they were real muslims. Now, I tthink Cyrizian went too far in saying that he would kill you, but surely killing a lot of people who were muslims by name only would be wrong?
Cyrizian: Try and stay calm, don't post while angry or you may regret what you say later.
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newman: the idea that I was alluding to is that you are paranoid and are seeing threats that aren't there.
Muck: If you re-read Cyrizians posts, he only said that he would kill you if you were about to murder a lot of muslims without first doing anything to check that they were real muslims. Now, I tthink Cyrizian went too far in saying that he would kill you, but surely killing a lot of people who were muslims by name only would be wrong?
Cyrizian: Try and stay calm, don't post while angry or you may regret what you say later.
That's great ftf, I'll make sure to ask them if they're real muslims before I 'murder' them. I wouldn't want to risk Cyrizian pumping bullets into my skull. :D
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I think it would be far better to take them all to internment camps.
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OK, but remember to ask them if they're 'real' muslims before you camp them.
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OK, but remember to ask them if they're 'real' muslims before you camp them.
In my opinion it would be utterly impossible to determine who is and isn't a real muslim accurately, for that reason I would advocate putting all muslims in camps which they would be allowed to leave only after having proved for definite that they were not muslims, possibly by smiling while burning a quran.
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OK, but remember to ask them if they're 'real' muslims before you camp them.
In my opinion it would be utterly impossible to determine who is and isn't a real muslim accurately, for that reason I would advocate putting all muslims in camps which they would be allowed to leave only after having proved for definite that they were not muslims, possibly by smiling while burning a quran.
???
Ever heard of taqqiya? A terrorist has permission from the mullahs and imams to eat a pork chop and drink vodka for the sake of his cause. They will gladly burn a koran to fool a fool.
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Smiling while burning the Queeran, huh ?
The barbarity !
Oh, the inhumanity !
I like it.
But I still wouldn't trust 'em.
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OK, but remember to ask them if they're 'real' muslims before you camp them.
In my opinion it would be utterly impossible to determine who is and isn't a real muslim accurately, for that reason I would advocate putting all muslims in camps which they would be allowed to leave only after having proved for definite that they were not muslims, possibly by smiling while burning a quran.
???
Ever heard of taqqiya? A terrorist has permission from the mullahs and imams to eat a pork chop and drink vodka for the sake of his cause. They will gladly burn a koran to fool a fool.
I really doubt it, did you know that a member of al'quaeda gave names of other members under threat of being forced to have a bath if he didn't?
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In defense of Muck:
These problems that occasionally arise are not instigated by Muck or myself. They are instigated by a the same 1 or 2 christians every time.
And before you accuse me of attacking christians, let me point out that we have heaps of christians on this forum who cause no problems at all.
What these 1 or 2 individuals are doing is proselytising by stealth.
What is proelytising by stealth? Read their posts and you will see. These people know full well that they can't come on here and demand we accept 'that man' as Messiach. So instead, they take an underhand sneaky way of doing the same thing by insisting that we accept NT philosophies that are contrary to Torah. Take the trouble to read over their posts if you don't believe me. By declaring that G-d requies us to bless our enemies, turn the other cheek, love evil doers or anything else advocated by 'that man' in the NT (and all of which is the complete opposite of Torah) is nothing but PROSELYTISING BY STEALTH.
Everyone is free to follow the theology of his/her choice. HOWEVER, this is a JEWISH- TORAH forum. If certain individuals are going to insist on the rest of us adhering to heretical, anti-Torah, anti-Jewish BS then they should expect righteous Jews like Muck to challenge them. Muck is absolutely right to do so. All righteous people be they Jew or christian must unite in common cause, but there can be no quarter given to any attempt at proselytizing no matter how subtle or sneaky. NT/ christian doctrine cannot be elevated over Jewish Torah principles.
I seek a clear ruling once and for all.
I didn't notice this but it's irrelevant: anyone who doesn't have a half-brain to tell right from wrong (in this case, not falling for "stealth proselytizing") is probably just a mindless sheep that would fall for anything.
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In defense of Muck:
These problems that occasionally arise are not instigated by Muck or myself. They are instigated by a the same 1 or 2 christians every time.
And before you accuse me of attacking christians, let me point out that we have heaps of christians on this forum who cause no problems at all.
What these 1 or 2 individuals are doing is proselytising by stealth.
What is proelytising by stealth? Read their posts and you will see. These people know full well that they can't come on here and demand we accept 'that man' as Messiach. So instead, they take an underhand sneaky way of doing the same thing by insisting that we accept NT philosophies that are contrary to Torah. Take the trouble to read over their posts if you don't believe me. By declaring that G-d requies us to bless our enemies, turn the other cheek, love evil doers or anything else advocated by 'that man' in the NT (and all of which is the complete opposite of Torah) is nothing but PROSELYTISING BY STEALTH.
Everyone is free to follow the theology of his/her choice. HOWEVER, this is a JEWISH- TORAH forum. If certain individuals are going to insist on the rest of us adhering to heretical, anti-Torah, anti-Jewish BS then they should expect righteous Jews like Muck to challenge them. Muck is absolutely right to do so. All righteous people be they Jew or christian must unite in common cause, but there can be no quarter given to any attempt at proselytizing no matter how subtle or sneaky. NT/ christian doctrine cannot be elevated over Jewish Torah principles.
I seek a clear ruling once and for all.
I didn't notice this but it's irrelevant: anyone who doesn't have a half-brain to tell right from wrong (in this case, not falling for "stealth proselytizing") is probably just a mindless sheep that would fall for anything.
Whether anyone falls for it is not the point. The fact is it's being done. Then when someone challenges it, they get accused of driving wedges. This activity should not be attempted in the first place.
BTW: Nobody IS falling for it.
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newman, you are incredibly paranoid, you are seeing things that are most definately not there.
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I am starting to believe that newman thinks the whole world is out to (somehow stealthily) get him...
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I am starting to believe that newman thinks the whole world is out to (somehow stealthily) get him...
You have been warned by a moderator about proselytising by stealth on another thread some weeks back, Abdul. Has that slipped your memory??
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newman, there is no member here called Abdul. I believe that tyhis topic is contributing nothing possitive to the forum, therefore, locked.
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I apologize to JTF for breaking the forum rules and threatening (in whatever capacity) another member of this forum.
Cyrizian, thank you for your apology. I am glad it worked out this way. It showed a lot of maturity and humility that you decided to handle it this way. Please be careful in the future because I can't hold out like I did this time. I know you understand.
Muck, I was too hard on you. It was almost 3am and I was very unhappy about this thread. Your sarcasm towards people you are upset with is partially what I was referring to but you did not use foul language and your "moon" comment was a joke based on turn the other cheek.
The fighting that has continued in here has shown me that there are still hurt feelings. This is to be expected. You should all forgive. This will make things right with Hashem and He will bless our forum for it. We cannot be forgiven if we do not forgive... we all lose our tempters sometimes.
I do not wish for this bickering to continue so I am locking the thread. I really do care about everyone that was involved (if you really only knew) and I'm glad this is over. Now lets go fight some muslim nazis.