JTF.ORG Forum

The Worldwide Crisis of Islam => The Truth About Islam => Topic started by: El Cabong! on September 05, 2006, 06:46:22 PM

Title: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: El Cabong! on September 05, 2006, 06:46:22 PM
Osama is going to be allowed to stay indefinitely in Pakistan's northern tribal areas if he leads a "peaceful" life. Al queda has managed to kick the Pakistan's army ass and they are pulling out and even returning captured taliban troops and weapons. What a country!

Article:

Osama bin Laden, America's most wanted man, will not face capture in Pakistan if he agrees to lead a "peaceful life," Pakistani officials tell ABC News.

"What this means is that the Taliban and al Qaeda leadership have effectively carved out a sanctuary inside Pakistan," said ABC News consultant Richard Clarke, the former White House counter-terrorism director.

The agreement was signed on the same day President Bush said the United States was working with its allies "to deny terrorists the enclaves they seek to establish in ungoverned areas across the world."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/09/bin_laden_gets_.html
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 05, 2006, 07:06:54 PM
Pakistan is a muslim coutry, so this is to be expected.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Hail Columbia on September 05, 2006, 07:45:54 PM
Does anyone remember when Bush said that any country that harbors terrorists is to be considered a terrorist nation?  When are we, and India, going to invade Pakistan?
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: cjd on September 05, 2006, 07:57:04 PM
Does anyone remember when Bush said that any country that harbors terrorists is to be considered a terrorist nation?  When are we, and India, going to invade Pakistan?

I think you would be playing with fire with that one. Honestly if they really know thats where Bin Ladden is it wont be long before they pluck him off. I am surprised that with the bounty he has on his head he isn't gone already. It must be them peacefull Muslims again spairing him.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: El Cabong! on September 05, 2006, 09:06:11 PM
Does anyone remember when Bush said that any country that harbors terrorists is to be considered a terrorist nation?  When are we, and India, going to invade Pakistan?

I think you would be playing with fire with that one. Honestly if they really know thats where Bin Ladden is it wont be long before they pluck him off. I am surprised that with the bounty he has on his head he isn't gone already. It must be them peacefull Muslims again spairing him.

Yes, CJd, I'm thinking it's some kind of setup or something. Get the Pakistani troops out, then bomb the hell out of them.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Christian Zionist on September 05, 2006, 10:01:19 PM
Does anyone remember when Bush said that any country that harbors terrorists is to be considered a terrorist nation?  When are we, and India, going to invade Pakistan?

India's muslim population is greater than the total population of Pakistan.  Post Christian Europe is helping Pakistan and this traitor Bush also consider's Pakistan as an ally in the war on terror.  The Western world is being destroyed because of sexual immoraility and liberalism.  That is the reason terrorist muslim countries are thriving.

http://www.pakistan-facts.com/


"...two-thirds of the organizations designated as having a terrorist link by the United States and the United Nations have a connection in Pakistan, according to the Treasury Department..."
Carlotta Gall
New York Times


"It's true the Pakistanis have helped us to capture some of the leading al-Qaeda figures, but you also have to wonder: Why do we find them all in Pakistan?"
Professor Jessica Stern, Harvard
New York Times

Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: cjd on September 06, 2006, 05:51:49 AM
Does anyone remember when Bush said that any country that harbors terrorists is to be considered a terrorist nation?  When are we, and India, going to invade Pakistan?

I think you would be playing with fire with that one. Honestly if they really know thats where Bin Ladden is it wont be long before they pluck him off. I am surprised that with the bounty he has on his head he isn't gone already. It must be them peacefull Muslims again spairing him.

Yes, CJd, I'm thinking it's some kind of setup or something. Get the Pakistani troops out, then bomb the hell out of them.

El Cabong  I'm with you in theory however the whole Pakistan situation is a tinderbox . I haven't quite figured out Mousharrf's game yet. He seems helpful to the United States however it seems his abilities are limited. I am skeptical but I can see the position he is in being Packston's Muslim make up.
The local where Bin Ladden is said to be hiding  is said to be remote and not exactly in control of Pakistan's central government. It is also said if Musharraf's was to allow the American forces to bomb this location it could  enrage the Packston population and cause his ouster. Musharraf's has been helpful to a point and what would  replaced him be better or worse. Is Bin Ladden worth it ? If they can at least be sure he is there we could at the very least watch him well and courtail any of his activities.
Title: Pakistan Now Denies bin laden Story
Post by: El Cabong! on September 06, 2006, 08:44:29 AM
Pakistan Denies Bin Laden Gets a Pass
September 06, 2006 6:20 AM

Brian Ross Reports:

The government of Pakistan today denied it would allow Osama bin Laden to avoid capture under terms of a peace agreement it signed with Taliban leaders in the country's North Waziristan area.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/09/pakistan_denies.html
Title: Re: Pakistan Now Denies bin laden Story
Post by: Shlomo on September 06, 2006, 12:59:42 PM
Pakistan Denies Bin Laden Gets a Pass
September 06, 2006 6:20 AM

Brian Ross Reports:

The government of Pakistan today denied it would allow Osama bin Laden to avoid capture under terms of a peace agreement it signed with Taliban leaders in the country's North Waziristan area.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/09/pakistan_denies.html

Ya... that's because Pakistan smokes crackistan. Muslims are muslims...
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 06, 2006, 02:12:49 PM
Something I should point out, a military strike on Pakistan may not be the best idea, Pakistan has nuclear weaponry.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: jewishron on September 06, 2006, 10:41:37 PM
This may be a good idea in that it can create a sense of normalcy for the psycho muslim nazi bin laden. If he starts to relax and makes himself visable again perhaps we can finally capture him.   
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 07, 2006, 06:43:01 PM
This may be a good idea in that it can create a sense of normalcy for the psycho muslim nazi bin laden. If he starts to relax and makes himself visable again perhaps we can finally capture him.   
How on earth would we capture him, if pakistan has granted him sanctuary?
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Shlomo on September 07, 2006, 10:43:59 PM
I think instead of blaming everything on that looser bin laden, we need to put the blame where it belongs... on the muslim people as a whole. And then second in the blame are the elitists that do nothing about it.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 08, 2006, 12:03:22 PM
I agree fully with the post above me... But, blaming alone doesn't do anything.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: khaan on September 08, 2006, 12:10:38 PM
Quote
When are we, and India, going to invade Pakistan?
Woo hoo! Reversing the split!
although the nukes thing is a good point ...

Uhhh you know, I really despise the pakistani government. They forbid a peaceful sect from existing (not very successfully, theyre a bit clumsy) yet allow a mass murderer and a terrorist to enjoy their country!!!
Growl!
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Shlomo on September 08, 2006, 02:13:30 PM
I agree fully with the post above me... But, blaming alone doesn't do anything.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I think we should start by destroying those nuclear sites in Iran...

and then stop by on the way back and bomb mecca. We could use the pieces of that rock to build toilets in the new building that replaces the twin towers.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: khaan on September 08, 2006, 02:18:44 PM
How is it that you DEMAND respect for yourself and judaism and israel and yet fail to return it to virtually anyone?
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 08, 2006, 02:32:55 PM
Bombing mecca would be counter productive. Think about all the involved issues.

It would involve death on a massive scale, and we would not be able to justify it as direct self defense. Also, due to the particular city just hink what pakistan would do with those nuclear weapons it "doesn't" have.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Shlomo on September 08, 2006, 02:34:57 PM
How is it that you DEMAND respect for yourself and judaism and israel and yet fail to return it to virtually anyone?

#1. I don't DEMAND respect... I don't need your respect. We never got respect from muslims anyway. Why woud I expect anything different? Unlike you, I learn from history.

#2. I only give respect to those who deserve it. Just like I give respect to (most) Christians in this forum even though I am not a Christian myself. Would they constitute "virtually anyone"?

But I won't show respect with people who are commanded to hate me. That's just dumb. Let's make my point with Surah:

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Shlomo on September 08, 2006, 02:40:35 PM
Bombing mecca would be counter productive. Think about all the involved issues.

It would involve death on a massive scale, and we would not be able to justify it as direct self defense. Also, due to the particular city just hink what pakistan would do with those nuclear weapons it "doesn't" have.

They have already declared war against us. Bombing mecca may actually demoralize them. I know it's not going to happen with the current governments but those idiots there are NOT innocent. Those are the worst of the insane.

As for Pakistupid... I seriously doubt they'd do a thing. They know if they launched, it would be utter destruction of their entire country.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: khaan on September 08, 2006, 02:42:54 PM
Quote
Bombing mecca may actually demoralize them.
Actually it would put truckloads more terrorists on your doorstep
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 08, 2006, 02:59:06 PM
Umm, but if USA had first hit mecca, they'd probably be of the opinion that they'd be hit anyway.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: poocho93 on September 08, 2006, 03:49:03 PM
Bombing mecca would be counter productive. Think about all the involved issues.

It would involve death on a massive scale, and we would not be able to justify it as direct self defense. Also, due to the particular city just hink what pakistan would do with those nuclear weapons it "doesn't" have.

They have already declared war against us. Bombing mecca may actually demoralize them. I know it's not going to happen with the current governments but those idiots there are NOT innocent. Those are the worst of the insane.

As for Pakistupid... I seriously doubt they'd do a thing. They know if they launched, it would be utter destruction of their entire country.

Islam has never declared war on "us". BinLaden has declared war on the West ON BEHALF of Islam. One man cannot speak on behalf of almost 25% of the earth's population. Soon after the invasion of Afganistan, BinLaden called on all muslims to take arms against the united states, i didnt see suicide bombings in McDonalds or a biological attack in Manhatten. As for the destruction of Mecca; it will not only be immoral and unjust, it will be suicidal for the West. And if one missle is launched anywhere in Pakistan of India, it wont destroy the countries, itll destroy the world.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: poocho93 on September 08, 2006, 03:53:51 PM
"O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends: They are but friends to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust." (Surah 5:51) - this is a commonly misquoted verse.

The word "Awliya" does not mean friend it means protector.
 
5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your protectors: They are but protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
Therefore, the referred verse does not prohibit friendship with Non-Muslims at all.
Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi writes:
The Qur'an does not say that non-Muslims cannot be Muslims' friends, nor does it forbid Muslims to be friendly to non-Muslims. There are many non-Muslims who are good friends of Muslim individuals and the Muslim community. There are also many good Muslims who truly and sincerely observe their faith and are very friendly to many non-Muslims at the same time. Islam teaches us that we should be friendly to all people. Islam teaches us that we should deal even with our enemies with justice and fairness. Allah says in the Qur'an in the beginning of the same Surah Al-Ma’dah:
“O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah as witnesses to fair dealings and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just, that is next to piety. Fear Allah, indeed Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do.” (Al-Ma’dah :8)

In another place in the Qur'an, Allah Almighty says:

 “Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them. For Allah loves those who are just. Allah only forbids you with regard to those who fight you for your faith, and drive you out of your homes and support others in driving you out, from turning to them for protection (or taking them as wali). Those who seek their protection they are indeed wrong- doers.” (Al-Mumtahinah: 8-9)
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: khaan on September 08, 2006, 03:57:21 PM
@ poocho: thanks for that, i was getting into trouble by myself.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Shlomo on September 08, 2006, 04:45:26 PM
Islam has never declared war on "us". BinLaden has declared war on the West ON BEHALF of Islam. One man cannot speak on behalf of almost 25% of the earth's population. Soon after the invasion of Afganistan, BinLaden called on all muslims to take arms against the united states, i didnt see suicide bombings in McDonalds or a biological attack in Manhatten. As for the destruction of Mecca; it will not only be immoral and unjust, it will be suicidal for the West. And if one missle is launched anywhere in Pakistan of India, it wont destroy the countries, itll destroy the world.

The word "Awliya" does not mean friend it means protector.

#1. Ummm... YES... They have declared war on the west. That's why you see those MASSES screaming "Death to America! Death to Israel!". That would be declaring war unless you don't want to be intellectually honest.

#2. We have actually stopped most of the terrorist attack but did you forget about 9-11 and all the missles launched into Israel? Again... not intellectually honest.

#3. Ok, so if it means protector... what about the other "verses"? I didn't see any rebuttal on those like "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them". Still looks like a vicious religion of hate and death to me. What about this?

What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, while Allah has made them return (to unbelief) for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him. THEY DESIRE THAT YOU SHOULD DISBELIEVE AS THEY HAVE DISBELIEVED, SO THAT YOU MIGHT BE ALL ALIKE; THEREFORE TAKE NOT FROM AMONG THEM FRIENDS UNTIL THEY FLY THEIR HOMES IN ALLAH'S WAY; BUT IF THEY TURN BACK, THEN SEIZE THEM AND KILL THEM WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE NOT FROM AMONG THEM A FRIEND OR A HELPER. (4:89)

#4. "Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi" (I wonder what he's a doctor of... camels?) is a muslim. Of course he's going to feebly try to defend his beliefs. It still doesn't make it right!

And you asked for it... here's a few more from your "peaceful" koran and the idiot evil dictator and desert sand warrior who converted his army by death sentence, mohammed:


Khaan and Poocho's Religion of Peace

Announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve (9:3)

(http://bibleprobe.com/zawahiri3.jpg)

O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred... (8:65)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve (8:55)

(http://bibleprobe.com/Ashoura2.jpg)

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah...And the Jews say Ezra is the son of God;  and the Christians say Christ is the son of God; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; Allah's curse be on them; how they are turned away!" (Koran 9:29-30)

And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah (8:39)

When the sacred months have passed away, THEN SLAY THE IDOLATERS WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE THEM CAPTIVES AND BESIEGE THEM AND LIE IN WAIT FOR THEM IN EVERY AMBUSH, then if they repent and keep up prayer [become believers] and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them (9:5)

(http://bibleprobe.com/muslimgathering.jpg)

And if they intend to act unfaithfully towards you, so indeed they acted unfaithfully towards Allah before, but He GAVE YOU MASTERY OVER THEM (8:71)

FIGHT THEM: ALLAH WILL PUNISH THEM BY YOUR HANDS AND BRING THEM TO DISGRACE, AND ASSIST YOU AGAINST THEM. (9:14)

FIGHT THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, NOR FOLLOW THE RELIGION OF TRUTH, OUT OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE BOOK [Christians and Jews], until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and THEY ARE IN A STATE OF SUBJECTION. (9:29)

O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination. (9:73)

(http://bibleprobe.com/stoning.jpg)

O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). (9:123)

I WILL CAST TERROR INTO THE HEARTS OF THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE. THEREFORE STRIKE OFF THEIR HEADS AND STRIKE OFF EVERY FINGERTIP OF THEM. THIS IS BECAUSE THEY ACTED ADVERSELY TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER; AND WHOEVER ACTS ADVERSELY TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER - THEN SURELY ALLAH IS SEVERE IN REQUITING (EVIL). THIS - TASTE IT, AND (KNOW) THAT FOR THE UNBELIEVERS IS THE PUNISHMENT OF FIRE. O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them. And whoever shall turn his back to them on that day - unless he turn aside for the sake of fighting or withdraws to a company - then he, indeed, becomes deserving of Allah's wrath, and his abode is hell; and an evil destination shall it be. So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy) but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; (8:12-17)

The punishment of those who pit themselves against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, except those who repent before you have them in your power (5:33-34)

Believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one god: far be it from his glory that He should have a son. (4:171)

(http://bibleprobe.com/islamic-pedophilia.jpg)

As for those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the punishment (4:56)

Surely they who disbelieve in the communications of Allah - they shall have a severe punishment; and Allah is Mighty, the lord of retribution. (3:4)

Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)" (Hadith 4:52:196)

(Isolated incident) ...then prostrated himself, and all who were with him prostrated too. But an old man took a handful of dust and touched his forehead with it saying, "This is sufficient for me." Later on I saw him killed as an infidel. (Hadith 5:59:311)

[yes the Jews and Muslims are both descendents of Abraham, but here is the attitude towards descendants of Abraham through Isaac (the Jews]: "If they find you, they will be your enemies, and will stretch forth towards you their hands and their tongues with evil, and they ardently desire that you may disbelieve. Your relationship would not profit you, nor your children, on the day of resurrection; He will decide between you; and Allah sees what you do. Indeed, there is for you a good example in Abraham and those with him when they said to their people: Surely we are clear of you and of what you serve besides Allah; WE DECLARE OURSELVES TO BE CLEAR OF YOU, AND ENMITY AND HATRED  HAVE APPEARED BETWEEN US AND YOU FOREVER UNTIL YOU BELIEVE IN ALLAH ALONE (60:2-4)

(http://bibleprobe.com/pales21.jpg)
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: jsullivan on September 08, 2006, 04:58:00 PM
Anyone who believes the lies being peddled here by poocho93 and khaan needs to have their heads examined.

THE MUSLIMS THEMSELVES TRANSLATE VERSE 5:51 AS SAYING THAT IT IS FORBIDDEN TO HAVE CHRISTIANS AND JEWS AS YOUR FRIENDS.  GO TO THE JTF WEB SITE, SCROLL DOWN TO THE SECTION ENTITLED "THE KORAN," AND CLICK ON "I WANT TO READ THE KORAN IN ITS OWN WORDS."  THEN GO TO CHAPTER 5, VERSE 51 TO SEE HOW THE MUSLIMS THEMSELVES TRANSLATE THE VERSE.  THIS IS A MUSLIM WEB SITE TRANSLATING THE KORAN INTO ENGLISH.

AND THIS IS ONE OF THE LEAST VIOLENT VERSES IN THE NAZI SATANIC KORAN.  READ IT FOR YOURSELVES.  AND READ THE HADITH, WHICH MUSLIMS MUST ALSO BELIEVE IN.  YOU'LL SEE THAT THE TERRORIST, MASS MURDERER, PEDOPHILE MOHAMMED LIED TO THE INFIDELS TO TRICK THEM BEFORE EXTERMINATING THEM COMPLETELY IN THE ARABIAN PENINSULA.



Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 08, 2006, 05:02:52 PM
We already know these things, it's just that my friend khaan does not yet understand... Give me time, I'm working on him.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: khaan on September 08, 2006, 05:28:08 PM
Jeffguy, the VAST MAJORITY of the verses you posted are from Surahs 8 and 9. These were revealed to Mohammad before various battles. In the Quran, it doesnt give context, this is only availible with commentary. The reason there is no context is that it would sound pretty silly for god to say: "In six whatever ad, mohammad did so and so, even though that date wont happen for another three years" (you get the pictyre).

With regards to the punishment for apostasy, well, ive already explained that one elsewhere.

And btw, youve COMPLETELY MISQUOTED 60:2 - 4 (and you might want to read 60:1 for the beginning of that bit).

You posted photographs of various "Muslims."
I can proudly declare that none of them are Ahmadis or have anything to do with Ahmadiyat
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Shlomo on September 08, 2006, 07:26:11 PM
Jeffguy, the VAST MAJORITY of the verses you posted are from Surahs 8 and 9. These were revealed to Mohammad before various battles. In the Quran, it doesnt give context, this is only availible with commentary. The reason there is no context is that it would sound pretty silly for god to say: "In six whatever ad, mohammad did so and so, even though that date wont happen for another three years" (you get the pictyre).

With regards to the punishment for apostasy, well, ive already explained that one elsewhere.

And btw, youve COMPLETELY MISQUOTED 60:2 - 4 (and you might want to read 60:1 for the beginning of that bit).

You posted photographs of various "Muslims."
I can proudly declare that none of them are Ahmadis or have anything to do with Ahmadiyat

That's all you have to say? I messed up on one quote and it's out of context? Shheess... you are going to believe whatever it is you want to believe.

There's really not much to argue about what the koran is saying in those texts. And I've given you texts from all different places including Surah.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: poocho93 on September 08, 2006, 09:18:45 PM
http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=32680
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 08, 2006, 09:30:17 PM
The context in the quran does not support the arguments that are being presneted there.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Shlomo on September 09, 2006, 10:55:18 PM
http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=32680

Poopoo... I think your islam jihad forum is down.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: El Cabong! on September 10, 2006, 10:48:03 AM
How is it that you DEMAND respect for yourself and Judaism and Israel and yet fail to return it to virtually anyone?

Because muslims don't respect any other religion on earth that's why. The day they start respecting other religion, is the day people like us may think about respecting theirs.

And the reason to bomb mecca? Iran's holiest leaders have said that if Israel destroys mecca first, then the Jewish G-d is greater that the islamic allah. They also said that if muslims destroy Israel first, then their islamic allah is greater. See the stupid logic involved involved it the thinking of these islamic cannibals? And all this was said in an assembly of their equivalent to our House of Congress.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Shlomo on September 10, 2006, 01:56:37 PM
How is it that you DEMAND respect for yourself and Judaism and Israel and yet fail to return it to virtually anyone?

Because muslims don't respect any other religion on earth that's why. The day they start respecting other religion, is the day people like us may think about respecting theirs.

And the reason to bomb mecca? Iran's holiest leaders have said that if Israel destroys mecca first, then the Jewish G-d is greater that the islamic allah. They also said that if muslims destroy Israel first, then their islamic allah is greater. See the stupid logic involved involved it the thinking of these islamic cannibals? And all this was said in an assembly of their equivalent to our House of Congress.

Yup... that's what I'm talking about. Then they will think that allah deserted them. It would be a crushing blow.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 10, 2006, 03:24:59 PM
Thinking about it, wihout mecca, Islam couldn't hold together, I think that the quran states that mecca will stand forever...
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Shlomo on September 10, 2006, 10:30:34 PM
Now, would the arabs cut off the oil out of spite? I don't think so... the rich arab elite class want to stay rich. A lot of them have even been irritated with islam and have wondered how to control it. This would make islam fall apart and the rich elite could care less about islam... they care more about themselves. Just a thought...

Also, would it be good to televise the count down? Like 24 hours in advance? It would be mecca from satelite with a big cross-hair over it. Or would that cause more saber rattling and possibly cause problems? Anyone have an opinion?
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: El Cabong! on September 11, 2006, 07:45:22 AM


Also, would it be good to televise the count down? Like 24 hours in advance? It would be mecca from satelite with a big cross-hair over it. Or would that cause more saber rattling and possibly cause problems? Anyone have an opinion?

No warning. Wait until they do that pilgrimige to mecca when about 1 million of them are walking around that stupid rock dressed in rags. Then fly a few jets into them filled with fuel and watch them burn so they know the end of islam is coming. Then drop the big one on them.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 11, 2006, 02:34:27 PM
Unnecessary death is simply that, unnecessary, and evil too.

We should drop troops to force all the people out of mecca, then we should blow it up.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: El Cabong! on September 11, 2006, 02:58:00 PM
Unnecessary death is simply that, unnecessary, and evil too.

We should drop troops to force [ball[/b] the people out of mecca, then we should blow it up.

Doing what you said and sending in our troops IS unecessary killing. Choose your side, don't sit on the fence.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 11, 2006, 04:03:52 PM
I am against Islam, but I am not against the people, they have been indoctrinated, it is not their fault, to me, killing them is like killing babies.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: El Cabong! on September 11, 2006, 04:09:23 PM
I am against Islam, but I am not against the people, they have been indoctrinated, it is not their fault, to me, killing them is like killing babies.

Better to kill them than to have our people killed. If they are indoctrinated, that's not our problem. There is no justification to sacrifice our men killed just to save our enemies, whether it's their fault or not. That is just pure misguided do-gooder nonsene.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 11, 2006, 04:22:41 PM
I would risk my own life to save others.

I would hope that other people would be prepared to do so.

The quran is my nemy, and Satan who I believe guided muhammed in the creation of the quran is my enemy, innocent people who ahve been indoctrinated are not my enemies.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: NeverMore on September 11, 2006, 04:39:50 PM
I would risk my own life to save others.

I would hope that other people would be prepared to do so.

The quran is my nemy, and Satan who I believe guided muhammed in the creation of the quran is my enemy, innocent people who ahve been indoctrinated are not my enemies.

people who think like you end up being killed by the hands of these "not your enemies".
you should really stop thinking that you are moral, because you're not! what can be more immoral than to offer sending your people to die, in order to save the ENEMY who tries to kill YOU and your people?
extremely illogical.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 11, 2006, 04:48:49 PM
Think about it from all angles, the muslims are not our enemies, they are the enemy's slaves.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: NeverMore on September 11, 2006, 04:56:18 PM
Think about it from all angles, the muslims are not our enemies, they are the enemy's slaves.

i dont care, and no one should care about the proper definition.
you have people, who want to kill you. look at it in whatever angle you want. it shouldnt make any difference in the way you deal with them.
and by the way, i am also against killing "just like that", im against hurting ANY righteous man. a righteose man (or woman of course) will be defined as one who doesnd want to hurt anyone who doesnt want to hurt him, and living accordingly (like helping the other righteous people and so on..).
that "love the sinner hate the sin" approach you have, you will never be able to defend it logically when it comes to surviving the threat of being killed by these sinners you mention. or when these sinners fight you, for example. its purely WRONG logically, if your logics support YOUR own survival.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 11, 2006, 05:18:33 PM
I would rather be killed than murder millions of inocent slaves.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: NeverMore on September 11, 2006, 05:33:12 PM
I would rather be killed than murder millions of inocent slaves.

so you say you better would prefer to see Jews die rather than taking potentially deadly action against the arabs?
because its direct logical continuation- better kill one Jew than million arabs=> better kill one Jew than 1000 arabs, because 1000000 and 1000 deads are both huge tragedies to them. you say actually that i, as a Jew, need to prefer dying rather than fighting them and killing if neccessary a big number of enemies who want to kill me, if i follow your way of thinking.

its so bad that you quantify and make equations of deads to be of the same value your life is.
if so, what is the number of enemies who want you dead are you allowing to die to save you?
these innocent slaves aint so inocent, and aint so slaves. they are grown up men, who can decide on their own between good and bad, and surely not innocent, because they want YOU dead and may have already killed Jews, for example.

i cant understand how can you seal yourself out from reality and remain locked on these suicidal ideas.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 11, 2006, 05:39:12 PM
If it was a direct situation, i.e. A muslim is about to cut someone's throat, and I'm standing behind the muslim with a knife I would kill. If it was a kill or be killed situation, I would kill. If I was on an aeroplane and muslims tried to take control of it, I would fight them with whatever I had, but I would never arrange the death of muslims in a situation when there is a different available course of action that doesn't involve death on our side.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: NeverMore on September 11, 2006, 05:47:51 PM
If it was a direct situation, i.e. A muslim is about to cut someone's throat, and I'm standing behind the muslim with a knife I would kill. If it was a kill or be killed situation, I would kill. If I was on an aeroplane and muslims tried to take control of it, I would fight them with whatever I had, but I would never arrange the death of muslims in a situation when there is a different available course of action that doesn't involve death on our side.

i fully agree with you, Rhuan.
its only that in some cases you have to choose to go to war and do these inevitable killings, that every war has, even if there is no "direct" situation. Israel has no "direct" situation now with lebanon, so we sit and do talkings with killers and other similar business. later, and due to that, the "direct situation" arises, and then, to win it and avoid the killing of your whole people, Jewish lives are lost, just like happened in the last lebanon war. 
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 11, 2006, 05:54:00 PM
Regarding Lebanon, I think Israel should have never pulled out.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: yephora on September 11, 2006, 06:02:12 PM
Rhuan wrote: but I would never arrange the death of muslims in a situation when there is a different available course of action that doesn't involve death on our side.

There is no different available course. Look into the future if you can - and you can by extending current trends. Muslims are overrunning Western civilization (Europe) and America's next. They are being radicalized in their mosques to jihadist intent. They are beating the west demographically (birthrate). The west is suicidally politically correct, they are anything but. The west doesn't have the will (to live) to use all its might in this war. Muslims will use anything they can get their filthy hands on. They are driven by religious fervor. The west has no fervor except for sex and sports. It doesn't even have the muscle to get bin Laden (for symbolic reasons if not tactical).

Given the above who do you think is going to win?

I don't care how religious you are. If a horde of Islamaniacs were coming for you and your family tell me you wouldn't grab a machine gun and blast away til the last clip? I know I would!
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: NeverMore on September 11, 2006, 06:02:46 PM
Regarding Lebanon, I think Israel should have never pulled out.

yey!  :)

Dude, you seem to hold some logically wrong ideas (like your infamous phrase hehe), some logically wrong opinions about how not avoiding getting murdered by these muslim killers.

luckily for me, when it comes to practical questions you seem to agree with me on all we've talked anout until now.

i'm sure there's some kind of collision and non-adaptability between the theories "they" tought you and the correct things YOU believe in.

about lebanon- you are right again, i believe. every leader who loves his people and seeks afrer his people's security and defense, would have first finnished hizballah off, and then pull out, if ever.

 ;)
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: NeverMore on September 11, 2006, 06:06:39 PM
Rhuan wrote: but I would never arrange the death of muslims in a situation when there is a different available course of action that doesn't involve death on our side.

There is no different available course. Look into the future if you can - and you can by extending current trends. Muslims are overrunning Western civilization (Europe) and America's next. They are being radicalized in their mosques to jihadist intent. They are beating the west demographically (birthrate). The west is suicidally politically correct, they are anything but. The west doesn't have the will (to live) to use all its might in this war. They are driven by religious fervor. The west has no fervor except for sex and sports. It doesn't even have the muscle to get bin Laden (for symbolic reasons if not tactical).

Given the above who do you think is going to win?

I don't care how religious you are. If a horde of Islamaniacs were coming for you and your family tell me you wouldn't grab a machine gun and blast away til the last clip? I know I wouldn't have to think twice!!

Yephora, you got some good ways of putting things together. well said.
however, i must note that Rhuan would have also agreed with your last sentence, as he mentioned in his theory of "direct" situations above.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 11, 2006, 06:09:11 PM
Thanks for agreeing with me on some points, NeverMore, it's nice when that happens.

I personally think that Israel should have destroyed hezbollah, and then should have maintained a presence in Lebanon until a totally peaceful (read non-muslim) government was established.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: NeverMore on September 11, 2006, 06:14:00 PM
Thanbks for agreeing with me on some points, NeverMore, it's nice when that happens.

I personally think that Israel should have destroyed hezbollah, and then should have maintained a presence in Lebanon until a totally peaceful (read non-muslim) government was established.

oh, here i cant agree, sorry!
you ask why? look at iraq. the arab people doesnt stop fighting and no peace is achieved until every "infidel" is out of "arab" territory. of course that arab territory includes the whole world by the kuran, but the first step is to get the "infidels" out of currently arab controlled territory.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Rhuan on September 11, 2006, 06:17:04 PM
I didn't ask "why?" about anything...

Anyway, if we have to have muslim countries, they should be run the way turkey has been for many years, the cities that is anyway... (total ban on the hijab etc)
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: NeverMore on September 11, 2006, 06:27:00 PM
I didn't ask "why?" about anything...

Anyway, if we have to have muslim countries, they should be run the way turkey has been for many years, the cities that is anyway... (total ban on the hijab etc)

even if so these countries will always have these terrorist organisations inside them, just like turkey has.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Scriabin on September 12, 2006, 11:22:05 AM
I believe that bin-laden is dead.  We've seen no new video of him in several years...we only have audio. 

Liberals use bin-laden's name and call for his death in order to appear hawkish, and to maintain the illusion that, "only a FEW muslims are bad."  They are good cop, bad copping us to death.  Of course he must die, but I believe that he already is dead. 

At this point he bin-laden has become a media distraction.

We must remember that we are not at war with 'radical islam,' or with 'terrorists.'  We are at war with islam ITSELF.  We can NEVER win a war on terror.  We must convince all sane people that this is a WAR ON ISLAM.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: NeverMore on September 12, 2006, 11:29:14 AM
Quote
Liberals use bin-laden's name and call for his death in order to appear hawkish, and to maintain the illusion that, "only a FEW muslims are bad."  They are good cop, bad copping us to death.

only fews here agree with me that there are good muslims at all. i say that only a few muslims are good, but there must be some good people among them too. "tsadik ehad be sdom" one righteous in sdom. at least one arab is righteous.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Scriabin on September 12, 2006, 11:34:37 AM
Quote
Liberals use bin-laden's name and call for his death in order to appear hawkish, and to maintain the illusion that, "only a FEW muslims are bad."  They are good cop, bad copping us to death.

only fews here agree with me that there are good muslims at all. i say that only a few muslims are good, but there must be some good people among them too. "tsadik ehad be sdom" one righteous in sdom. at least one arab is righteous.
Your point is reasonable, but I don't think that we can afford to worry about a tiny number of people who might be good. 
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: NeverMore on September 12, 2006, 11:36:59 AM
Quote
Liberals use bin-laden's name and call for his death in order to appear hawkish, and to maintain the illusion that, "only a FEW muslims are bad."  They are good cop, bad copping us to death.

only fews here agree with me that there are good muslims at all. i say that only a few muslims are good, but there must be some good people among them too. "tsadik ehad be sdom" one righteous in sdom. at least one arab is righteous.
Your point is reasonable, but I don't think that we can afford to worry about a tiny number of people who might be good. 


sure, we need to deal with the threat the arab PEOPLE poses on us, regardless of wether there are also good arabs. its only a philosophycal question.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Scriabin on October 12, 2006, 11:25:13 AM
Let me put a nail into this coffin! Why does anyone as a muslim have to explain themselves to a bunch of Racist jews on here! I say f.uc.k them, and there stupid theories. They want to take on Pakistan then let them try, if a country that small can hold the might of INIDA of then what chance has a couple of jews in f16's no chance. I am sick of muslims on here ass licking these losers. Before I came onto this forum, i didn't mind jews at all, in matter of fact have friends, but now next time I see one on the road, he's getting a load of verbal!!!

This place is a JOKE, but I will stick it out!

Rabbi Kahane said, "There are no moderate [muslims].  There are intelligent [muslims] and there are stupid [muslims]."  (He used the word 'Arab'.)

Stupid muslims speak and act as they think.  Intelligent muslims hide behind the veil of false diplomacy.

Stupid muslims want to blow us up now.  Intelligent muslims want to breed us out eventually.

BOTH groups however want us destroyed.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Shlomo on October 13, 2006, 01:51:00 AM
Let me put a nail into this coffin! Why does anyone as a muslim have to explain themselves to a bunch of Racist jews on here! I say f.uc.k them, and there stupid theories. They want to take on Pakistan then let them try, if a country that small can hold the might of INIDA of then what chance has a couple of jews in f16's no chance. I am sick of muslims on here ass licking these losers. Before I came onto this forum, i didn't mind jews at all, in matter of fact have friends, but now next time I see one on the road, he's getting a load of verbal!!!

This place is a JOKE, but I will stick it out!

First you get the MONEY
Then U get the POWER
The U kill the ****

So you call us racist and then you say stuff like this??? Are you nuts? So all Jews are going to get it from you now?

Do us a favor... don't "stick it out"... just take your non-sense somewhere else. You should be embarrassed for this garbage you've posted.

Spare the Jews on the road... you already gave us a "load of your verbal".
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: cjd on October 13, 2006, 07:06:04 AM
Let me put a nail into this coffin! Why does anyone as a muslim have to explain themselves to a bunch of Racist jews on here! I say f.uc.k them, and there stupid theories. They want to take on Pakistan then let them try, if a country that small can hold the might of INIDA of then what chance has a couple of jews in f16's no chance. I am sick of muslims on here ass licking these losers. Before I came onto this forum, i didn't mind jews at all, in matter of fact have friends, but now next time I see one on the road, he's getting a load of verbal!!!

This place is a JOKE, but I will stick it out!
Honestly your quite comical! Who really cares what you mind ! Save your coffin nails they will be needed elsewhere. Pakistan is like a ticking bomb one bump in the road and its own population will turn against itself. The great thing about Muslims is that they are so nuts they will even kill fellow Muslims.  You say "This place is a JOKE, but I will stick it out!" . By all means stick around we need an example of warped Muslim thinking and the stupidity of people who try to defend it. Finally you should pay attention to your driving it would be ashame for you to rearend something in one of you verbal tirades against Jews.
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: keyser on October 13, 2006, 07:09:29 AM
Ooooooo....seems I hit a sore point here....easy to dish your rubbish out, but be men as you claim to be when you get it back!
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: Shlomo on October 13, 2006, 11:47:17 AM
Ooooooo....seems I hit a sore point here....easy to dish your rubbish out, but be men as you claim to be when you get it back!

The only nerve you hit was wasting my time. I never dished rubbish out on you, sir. You seem like such an angry little man... everything you say is so vile and hateful.

And if you disagree with that so much, then why on earth would you dish it back? If you hate us so much, why on EARTH are you wasting your time posting here?? Aren't you actually exibiting the same behavior that you claim to hate? Am I alone on this or are other having a hard time taking this guy seriously? I suppose the internet has all kinds...
Title: Re: Bin Laden Allowed To Stay Unbothered in Pakistan
Post by: El Cabong! on October 13, 2006, 09:31:41 PM
His feeble comebacks are reminiscent of Pee Wee Herman, lol. "I know you are but what am I?" What and uneducated moron. And he claims to be some computer programmer or something. This coming from the people who raise their kids to kill themselves. Even rodents defend their offspring and protect them from harm. These muslim animals send their own children to their deaths. This is what differentiates us from them, our love and our kindness, of which they have none of. We love and protect our children while they hate everything so much, their hearts have no room for even the scarcest affection for their own children.