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Kahanist Singles => Jewish Singles => Topic started by: admin on October 09, 2007, 03:19:58 PM

Title: Do You Think Pants Are Modest For Women?
Post by: admin on October 09, 2007, 03:19:58 PM
I think they should only wear dresses and skirts.

Skirts are also very attractive because they are womanly.

Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Ultra Requete on October 09, 2007, 04:16:53 PM
yes and no; I agree on your points; but pants aren't immoral per se; but they're were intruduced by Germans ::); Ancient Israelite men didn't wear them too. 8;)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on October 09, 2007, 04:50:12 PM
to each their own...

But men shoudl not wear skirts or women's clothes...Women shoudl not wear suits..but pants are fashionable for both sexes.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Ultra Requete on October 09, 2007, 05:00:38 PM
to each their own...

But men shoudl not wear skirts or women's clothes...Women shoudl not wear suits..but pants are fashionable for both sexes.

I meant of course tunics or garbs (I  don't know English word for this) the Prophets from Tanath on all this fims wore not women's skirts.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Daniel on October 09, 2007, 05:20:37 PM
No, I don't think women should wear pants. I agree that they look much more attractive without pants  :::D
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Lisa on October 09, 2007, 06:07:51 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Sarah on October 22, 2007, 02:27:59 PM
How would you be able to jump over walls, hop on a bike or even run, to your fullest potential!!

I think trousers/ jeans are fine since they've been designed for women especially and men have different cuts or styles, so they are different. Even in the case of suits, womens suits are feminine not manly! So everyone sticks to representing their own sex.


I wear skirts occasionally but I usually feel older then I am in them. Plus they're quite cold. ;D
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: White Israelite on October 22, 2007, 02:54:40 PM
I don't really care what they wear.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: croatian_girl on November 04, 2007, 12:26:00 AM
i cant believe you guys are discussing if pants are moral??? its 2007, its more comfortable than skirts sometimes and in all honesty, since in 2007 women work - pants are a much better option!

and p.s for someone up there who said men shouldnt wear skirts - skirts aka kilt - sound familiar?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on November 04, 2007, 12:32:48 AM
i cant believe you guys are discussing if pants are moral??? its 2007, its more comfortable than skirts sometimes and in all honesty, since in 2007 women work - pants are a much better option!

and p.s for someone up there who said men shouldnt wear skirts - skirts aka kilt - sound familiar?

I agree. Everybody should wear what they please within the bounds of decency.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: kellymaureen on November 04, 2007, 12:33:31 AM
I wear jeans alot at home, they are comfortable and I live where its cold most of the year.
In the summer and spring I prefer dresses, in the fall, skirts with knee length boots.

Quote
But men shoudl not wear skirts

I quite like a scottish man in a kilt ;)

Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on November 04, 2007, 12:35:17 AM
I wear jeans alot at home, they are comfortable and I live where its cold most of the year.
In the summer and spring I prefer dresses, in the fall, skirts with knee length boots.

Quote
But men shoudl not wear skirts

I quite like a scottish man in a kilt ;)



Aye, yer a fine, wee lassie! ;)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: jdl4ever on November 04, 2007, 12:37:11 AM
I think nowadays it's perfectly fine for girls to wear pants.  Pants used to be worn only by men, but for the last 50 years most women wear them as well. 
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on November 04, 2007, 12:43:43 AM
I think nowadays it's perfectly fine for girls to wear pants.  Pants used to be worn only by men, but for the last 50 years most women wear them as well. 

I believe the Talmudic prohibition is not on pants for women, but on "women dressing like men". Given that women's pants are cut, styled and worn differently to men's pants, I can't see the problem
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: kellymaureen on November 04, 2007, 12:49:52 AM
Quote
lol, Kellymaureen! Kilts!

Lol...yes I really like that O0
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on November 04, 2007, 12:51:26 AM
It is all about intention, such as:

1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.

Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on November 04, 2007, 12:56:29 AM
It is all about intention, such as:

1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.



The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

What is the prohibition on women wearing loose slacks that are clearly a women's style of cut and fabric?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Joe Schmo on November 04, 2007, 01:00:33 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on November 04, 2007, 01:45:56 AM
It is all about intention, such as:

1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.



The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

What is the prohibition on women wearing loose slacks that are clearly a women's style of cut and fabric?

Since pants were invented relatively late in the history, Jewish men had never worn pants in the Ancient Land of Israel. Therefore we can't even say that pants are purely masculine type of clothing.

And thus, in addtion to the prohibition against unisex, the main rule here is the intention and reasonable approach.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Kiwi on November 04, 2007, 01:18:31 AM
Theres a time and place to wear both.

Depends on what you are doing at the time  8;)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: croatian_girl on November 04, 2007, 01:59:55 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.




"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Joe Schmo on November 04, 2007, 02:05:53 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.
I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.
When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.
As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.
"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/

I'm not Jewish, nor a fruitcake.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: croatian_girl on November 04, 2007, 02:11:52 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.




"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/

Would you rather he just called them fags?

nice way to show your lack of regard for other human being.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: croatian_girl on November 04, 2007, 02:18:04 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.




"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/

Would you rather he just called them fags?

nice way to show your lack of regard for other human being.

So when a homo dances around in the street with a pink thong, is that also regarding his fellow man (no pun intended)?

dude. i live in nyc for last 7 years and I havent seen one gay man prancing around in a pink thong in my life. and i lived in chealsea and village. do you even know a gay person? I think watching too much Tyra Banks show got to you
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: croatian_girl on November 04, 2007, 02:35:07 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.




"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/

Would you rather he just called them fags?

nice way to show your lack of regard for other human being.

So when a homo dances around in the street with a pink thong, is that also regarding his fellow man (no pun intended)?

dude. i live in nyc for last 7 years and I havent seen one gay man prancing around in a pink thong in my life. and i lived in chealsea and village. do you even know a gay person? I think watching too much Tyra Banks show got to you

We had a guy in my high school who used to come during the day dressed in a tight, short skirt and a tight shirt (sometimes women's tank-tops). I do know some other gay people besides him, but that's just one example. Also, I'm sure if you took a look at the nasty footage of the gay pride parades that take place in San Fransisco, and sadly, Jerusalem, you'd see more and worse than what I'm talking about. Calling these people, or anyone for that matter, fruitcakes is no hateful term; in fact, it is an understatement.


well maybe if you are lucky enough you will have a child that is gay, and you will supress it so much until it decides to kill him/herself so you could finally realize that love is love, no matter what form it comes in. and also look into transgender. there is a difference with people having sex identity disorder and just being gay + gay parades are meant to be for fun, just like halloween, where you have chicks asses falling out and whatnot.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: croatian_girl on November 04, 2007, 02:53:34 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.




"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/

Would you rather he just called them fags?

nice way to show your lack of regard for other human being.

So when a homo dances around in the street with a pink thong, is that also regarding his fellow man (no pun intended)?

dude. i live in nyc for last 7 years and I havent seen one gay man prancing around in a pink thong in my life. and i lived in chealsea and village. do you even know a gay person? I think watching too much Tyra Banks show got to you

We had a guy in my high school who used to come during the day dressed in a tight, short skirt and a tight shirt (sometimes women's tank-tops). I do know some other gay people besides him, but that's just one example. Also, I'm sure if you took a look at the nasty footage of the gay pride parades that take place in San Fransisco, and sadly, Jerusalem, you'd see more and worse than what I'm talking about. Calling these people, or anyone for that matter, fruitcakes is no hateful term; in fact, it is an understatement.


well maybe if you are lucky enough you will have a child that is gay, and you will supress it so much until it decides to kill him/herself so you could finally realize that love is love, no matter what form it comes in. and also look into transgender. there is a difference with people having sex identity disorder and just being gay + gay parades are meant to be for fun, just like halloween, where you have chicks donkeys falling out and whatnot.


G-d forbid. You are a bigot for wishing that upon such a righteous Jew.



and you are a bigot for supporting any form of discrimination
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Kiwi on November 04, 2007, 03:24:31 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.




"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/

Would you rather he just called them fags?

nice way to show your lack of regard for other human being.

So when a homo dances around in the street with a pink thong, is that also regarding his fellow man (no pun intended)?

dude. i live in nyc for last 7 years and I havent seen one gay man prancing around in a pink thong in my life. and i lived in chealsea and village. do you even know a gay person? I think watching too much Tyra Banks show got to you

You never been to Melbourne Australia have you.  ;)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Kiwi on November 04, 2007, 03:27:34 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.




"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/

Would you rather he just called them fags?

nice way to show your lack of regard for other human being.

So when a homo dances around in the street with a pink thong, is that also regarding his fellow man (no pun intended)?

dude. i live in nyc for last 7 years and I havent seen one gay man prancing around in a pink thong in my life. and i lived in chealsea and village. do you even know a gay person? I think watching too much Tyra Banks show got to you

We had a guy in my high school who used to come during the day dressed in a tight, short skirt and a tight shirt (sometimes women's tank-tops). I do know some other gay people besides him, but that's just one example. Also, I'm sure if you took a look at the nasty footage of the gay pride parades that take place in San Fransisco, and sadly, Jerusalem, you'd see more and worse than what I'm talking about. Calling these people, or anyone for that matter, fruitcakes is no hateful term; in fact, it is an understatement.


well maybe if you are lucky enough you will have a child that is gay, and you will supress it so much until it decides to kill him/herself so you could finally realize that love is love, no matter what form it comes in. and also look into transgender. there is a difference with people having sex identity disorder and just being gay + gay parades are meant to be for fun, just like halloween, where you have chicks donkeys falling out and whatnot.


G-d forbid. You are a bigot for wishing that upon such a righteous Jew.



and you are a bigot for supporting any form of discrimination

Yacov is no bigot.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on November 04, 2007, 03:44:48 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.




"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/

Would you rather he just called them fags?

nice way to show your lack of regard for other human being.

So when a homo dances around in the street with a pink thong, is that also regarding his fellow man (no pun intended)?

dude. i live in nyc for last 7 years and I havent seen one gay man prancing around in a pink thong in my life. and i lived in chealsea and village. do you even know a gay person? I think watching too much Tyra Banks show got to you

We had a guy in my high school who used to come during the day dressed in a tight, short skirt and a tight shirt (sometimes women's tank-tops). I do know some other gay people besides him, but that's just one example. Also, I'm sure if you took a look at the nasty footage of the gay pride parades that take place in San Fransisco, and sadly, Jerusalem, you'd see more and worse than what I'm talking about. Calling these people, or anyone for that matter, fruitcakes is no hateful term; in fact, it is an understatement.


well maybe if you are lucky enough you will have a child that is gay, and you will supress it so much until it decides to kill him/herself so you could finally realize that love is love, no matter what form it comes in. and also look into transgender. there is a difference with people having sex identity disorder and just being gay + gay parades are meant to be for fun, just like halloween, where you have chicks donkeys falling out and whatnot.


G-d forbid. You are a bigot for wishing that upon such a righteous Jew.



What do you expect?

Croats are a bunch of Jew-hating, baby-butchering nazis.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: croatian_girl on November 04, 2007, 04:08:04 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.




"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/

Would you rather he just called them fags?

nice way to show your lack of regard for other human being.

So when a homo dances around in the street with a pink thong, is that also regarding his fellow man (no pun intended)?

dude. i live in nyc for last 7 years and I havent seen one gay man prancing around in a pink thong in my life. and i lived in chealsea and village. do you even know a gay person? I think watching too much Tyra Banks show got to you

We had a guy in my high school who used to come during the day dressed in a tight, short skirt and a tight shirt (sometimes women's tank-tops). I do know some other gay people besides him, but that's just one example. Also, I'm sure if you took a look at the nasty footage of the gay pride parades that take place in San Fransisco, and sadly, Jerusalem, you'd see more and worse than what I'm talking about. Calling these people, or anyone for that matter, fruitcakes is no hateful term; in fact, it is an understatement.


well maybe if you are lucky enough you will have a child that is gay, and you will supress it so much until it decides to kill him/herself so you could finally realize that love is love, no matter what form it comes in. and also look into transgender. there is a difference with people having sex identity disorder and just being gay + gay parades are meant to be for fun, just like halloween, where you have chicks donkeys falling out and whatnot.


G-d forbid. You are a bigot for wishing that upon such a righteous Jew.



What do you expect?

Croats are a bunch of Jew-hating, baby-butchering nazis.

i dont hate jews...but i also dont hate gays.
learn how to tolerate, you might like life much more.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on November 04, 2007, 04:09:55 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.




"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/

Would you rather he just called them fags?

nice way to show your lack of regard for other human being.

So when a homo dances around in the street with a pink thong, is that also regarding his fellow man (no pun intended)?

dude. i live in nyc for last 7 years and I havent seen one gay man prancing around in a pink thong in my life. and i lived in chealsea and village. do you even know a gay person? I think watching too much Tyra Banks show got to you

We had a guy in my high school who used to come during the day dressed in a tight, short skirt and a tight shirt (sometimes women's tank-tops). I do know some other gay people besides him, but that's just one example. Also, I'm sure if you took a look at the nasty footage of the gay pride parades that take place in San Fransisco, and sadly, Jerusalem, you'd see more and worse than what I'm talking about. Calling these people, or anyone for that matter, fruitcakes is no hateful term; in fact, it is an understatement.


well maybe if you are lucky enough you will have a child that is gay, and you will supress it so much until it decides to kill him/herself so you could finally realize that love is love, no matter what form it comes in. and also look into transgender. there is a difference with people having sex identity disorder and just being gay + gay parades are meant to be for fun, just like halloween, where you have chicks donkeys falling out and whatnot.


G-d forbid. You are a bigot for wishing that upon such a righteous Jew.



What do you expect?

Croats are a bunch of Jew-hating, baby-butchering nazis.

i dont hate jews...but i also dont hate gays.
learn how to tolerate, you might like life much more.

We do tollerate gays, but we don't accept them.

Learn the difference between "tollerance" and "acceptance".
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: croatian_girl on November 04, 2007, 04:12:09 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.




"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/

Would you rather he just called them fags?

nice way to show your lack of regard for other human being.

So when a homo dances around in the street with a pink thong, is that also regarding his fellow man (no pun intended)?

dude. i live in nyc for last 7 years and I havent seen one gay man prancing around in a pink thong in my life. and i lived in chealsea and village. do you even know a gay person? I think watching too much Tyra Banks show got to you

We had a guy in my high school who used to come during the day dressed in a tight, short skirt and a tight shirt (sometimes women's tank-tops). I do know some other gay people besides him, but that's just one example. Also, I'm sure if you took a look at the nasty footage of the gay pride parades that take place in San Fransisco, and sadly, Jerusalem, you'd see more and worse than what I'm talking about. Calling these people, or anyone for that matter, fruitcakes is no hateful term; in fact, it is an understatement.


well maybe if you are lucky enough you will have a child that is gay, and you will supress it so much until it decides to kill him/herself so you could finally realize that love is love, no matter what form it comes in. and also look into transgender. there is a difference with people having sex identity disorder and just being gay + gay parades are meant to be for fun, just like halloween, where you have chicks donkeys falling out and whatnot.


G-d forbid. You are a bigot for wishing that upon such a righteous Jew.



What do you expect?

Croats are a bunch of Jew-hating, baby-butchering nazis.

i dont hate jews...but i also dont hate gays.
learn how to tolerate, you might like life much more.

We do tollerate gays, but we don't accept them.

Learn the difference between "tollerance" and "acceptance".


i didnt ask to accept i asked to respect by using a proper term.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on November 04, 2007, 04:20:25 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.




"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/

Would you rather he just called them fags?

nice way to show your lack of regard for other human being.

So when a homo dances around in the street with a pink thong, is that also regarding his fellow man (no pun intended)?

dude. i live in nyc for last 7 years and I havent seen one gay man prancing around in a pink thong in my life. and i lived in chealsea and village. do you even know a gay person? I think watching too much Tyra Banks show got to you

We had a guy in my high school who used to come during the day dressed in a tight, short skirt and a tight shirt (sometimes women's tank-tops). I do know some other gay people besides him, but that's just one example. Also, I'm sure if you took a look at the nasty footage of the gay pride parades that take place in San Fransisco, and sadly, Jerusalem, you'd see more and worse than what I'm talking about. Calling these people, or anyone for that matter, fruitcakes is no hateful term; in fact, it is an understatement.


well maybe if you are lucky enough you will have a child that is gay, and you will supress it so much until it decides to kill him/herself so you could finally realize that love is love, no matter what form it comes in. and also look into transgender. there is a difference with people having sex identity disorder and just being gay + gay parades are meant to be for fun, just like halloween, where you have chicks donkeys falling out and whatnot.


G-d forbid. You are a bigot for wishing that upon such a righteous Jew.



What do you expect?

Croats are a bunch of Jew-hating, baby-butchering nazis.

i dont hate jews...but i also dont hate gays.
learn how to tolerate, you might like life much more.

We do tollerate gays, but we don't accept them.

Learn the difference between "tollerance" and "acceptance".


i didnt ask to accept i asked to respect by using a proper term.

Nobody can demand respect or acceptance. The fag lobby has gone way beyond the struggle to be left alone of 30 years ago. Now they DEMAND acceptance. Those poo-eating perverts will get no respect from me.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: croatian_girl on November 04, 2007, 04:24:37 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.




"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/

Would you rather he just called them fags?

nice way to show your lack of regard for other human being.

So when a homo dances around in the street with a pink thong, is that also regarding his fellow man (no pun intended)?

dude. i live in nyc for last 7 years and I havent seen one gay man prancing around in a pink thong in my life. and i lived in chealsea and village. do you even know a gay person? I think watching too much Tyra Banks show got to you

We had a guy in my high school who used to come during the day dressed in a tight, short skirt and a tight shirt (sometimes women's tank-tops). I do know some other gay people besides him, but that's just one example. Also, I'm sure if you took a look at the nasty footage of the gay pride parades that take place in San Fransisco, and sadly, Jerusalem, you'd see more and worse than what I'm talking about. Calling these people, or anyone for that matter, fruitcakes is no hateful term; in fact, it is an understatement.


well maybe if you are lucky enough you will have a child that is gay, and you will supress it so much until it decides to kill him/herself so you could finally realize that love is love, no matter what form it comes in. and also look into transgender. there is a difference with people having sex identity disorder and just being gay + gay parades are meant to be for fun, just like halloween, where you have chicks donkeys falling out and whatnot.


G-d forbid. You are a bigot for wishing that upon such a righteous Jew.



What do you expect?

Croats are a bunch of Jew-hating, baby-butchering nazis.

i dont hate jews...but i also dont hate gays.
learn how to tolerate, you might like life much more.

We do tollerate gays, but we don't accept them.

Learn the difference between "tollerance" and "acceptance".


i didnt ask to accept i asked to respect by using a proper term.

Nobody can demand respect or acceptance. The fag lobby has gone way beyond the struggle to be left alone of 30 years ago. Now they DEMAND acceptance. Those poo-eating perverts will get no respect from me.

you are of sad hateful existance. goodnight
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Kiwi on November 04, 2007, 04:28:30 AM
Quote
poo-eating perverts

I never knew they ate Pooh, I live such a sheltered life........

Can't say we are not educational. 
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on November 04, 2007, 04:33:55 AM
Quote
poo-eating perverts

I never knew they ate Pooh, I live such a sheltered life........

Can't say we are not educational. 

Yeah, fags are like krauts. They love fecal play! (YUK!!!)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on November 04, 2007, 04:40:37 AM


We don't hate gays. But we hate the ones who chose evil and perform homosexual acts. G-d gave them free will. They can chose not to act on their urges to do evil.



Most of us don't even care about the evil they do behind closed doors with consenting adults. But their continual lobbying for acceptance, demanding the right to the holy sacrament of marriage, demands to addopt children and wanting to give "It's OK to be gay" talks in schools is evil and must stop immediately.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Kiwi on November 04, 2007, 04:41:38 AM
Quote
poo-eating perverts

I never knew they ate Pooh, I live such a sheltered life........

Can't say we are not educational. 

Yeah, fags are like krauts. They love fecal play! (YUK!!!)

Thankfully I have already eaten  :(
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Ultra Requete on November 04, 2007, 05:19:12 AM
We're not only forced to accept them our children are brain washed to praise this pervetion. :( Only thing that "tolerant" libs don't tolerate are people with different opinions and religius jews and christians ; who's the bigot here. ??? ::) 
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on November 04, 2007, 05:21:32 AM
We're not only forced to accept them our children are brain washed to praise this pervetion. :( Only thing that "tolerant" libs don't tolerate are people with different opinions and religius jews and christians ; who's the bigot here. ??? ::) 
"tolerant" libs are the biggest fascists and totalitarians of all.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Jasmina on November 04, 2007, 07:37:09 AM
  yes, It's ok for a girl to wear pants! why not???
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Hail Columbia on November 04, 2007, 09:44:29 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.




"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/

Would you rather he just called them fags?

nice way to show your lack of regard for other human being.

Since this is a Jewish forum, instead of calling homosexuals fags, we shall call them feygeles.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on November 04, 2007, 09:58:46 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.




"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/

Would you rather he just called them fags?

nice way to show your lack of regard for other human being.

Since this is a Jewish forum, instead of calling homosexuals fags, we shall call them feygeles.

What's that eggplant word for spooks again?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Hail Columbia on November 04, 2007, 10:02:13 AM
Melangina.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on November 04, 2007, 10:03:58 AM
Melangina.

Sounds like a woman's privates!

Pronounced  mel-an-jina ? (Chaim had a hard time with it once) :)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: cjd on November 04, 2007, 10:05:09 AM
It is all about intention, such as:
1) Women should not wear short skirts, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
2) Women should not wear tight pants, since in 99% the intention is vulgar.
The question was about pants, not tight pants.

I'm sure orthodox Jewery would frown on men wearing pants so tight they displayed the outline of ones manhood.

When Women wear pants, they always wear tight pants.

As far as men are concerned, only fruitcakes wear tight pants.




"nice" choice of words for a man of homosexual nature... im sure you wouldn't appriciate somebody calling you a derrogatory jewish term :/

Would you rather he just called them fags?

nice way to show your lack of regard for other human being.

Since this is a Jewish forum, instead of calling homosexuals fags, we shall call them feygeles.

What's that eggplant word for spooks again?
The Slang word is "Mulli"  or "Yamms" Mullinayma  the spellings may be wrong ;D
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dan on November 04, 2007, 10:17:56 AM
I think that wearing pants is fine... I think that in the Bible the warning was not against women wearing pants but it was a warning of the times when Women will want to be like men and take their role and vice versa, as we see in todays society. For example: Rosie O'Donnell, you can not get more vile and disgusting then her!
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on November 04, 2007, 10:21:44 AM
I think that wearing pants is fine... I think that in the Bible the warning was not against women wearing pants but it was a warning of the times when Women will want to be like men and take their role and vice versa, as we see in todays society. For example: Rosie O'Donnell, you can not get more vile and disgusting then her!

I think you're right. The problem is not women's style slacks, but women acting like men......boozing it up, going to strip shows etc. It's happening now.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: New Yorker on November 04, 2007, 02:08:36 PM
I think that wearing pants is fine... I think that in the Bible the warning was not against women wearing pants but it was a warning of the times when Women will want to be like men and take their role and vice versa, as we see in todays society. For example: Rosie O'Donnell, you can not get more vile and disgusting then her!

I think you're right. The problem is not women's style slacks, but women acting like men......boozing it up, going to strip shows etc. It's happening now.

Exactly, it's horrible, makes women completely unlovable when they act that way, I'm not interested in being with a [censored] man in the shape of a woman, I want to be with a woman, soft, sweet, girlie and demure.  :)  
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Kiwi on November 04, 2007, 06:25:09 PM
I think that wearing pants is fine... I think that in the Bible the warning was not against women wearing pants but it was a warning of the times when Women will want to be like men and take their role and vice versa, as we see in todays society. For example: Rosie O'Donnell, you can not get more vile and disgusting then her!

I think you're right. The problem is not women's style slacks, but women acting like men......boozing it up, going to strip shows etc. It's happening now.

You see the ones that wear the suit and ties  :o

I can't stand that
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Ultra Requete on November 07, 2007, 04:51:13 AM

We had a guy in my high school who used to come during the day dressed in a tight, short skirt and a tight shirt (sometimes women's tank-tops). I do know some other gay people besides him, but that's just one example. Also, I'm sure if you took a look at the nasty footage of the gay pride parades that take place in San Fransisco, and sadly, Jerusalem, you'd see more and worse than what I'm talking about. Calling these people, or anyone for that matter, fruitcakes is no hateful term; in fact, it is an understatement.


well maybe if you are lucky enough you will have a child that is gay, and you will supress it so much until it decides to kill him/herself so you could finally realize that love is love, no matter what form it comes in. and also look into transgender. there is a difference with people having sex identity disorder and just being gay + gay parades are meant to be for fun, just like halloween, where you have chicks donkeys falling out and whatnot.

Why would I want my son to be infected with AIDS when he grows up Halila weHas? How dare you wish this misery upon me and my family? You have no clue what love is. You are the same type of person who would tell someone that you loved him and then break up with him a couple of months later. Don't give me your cheapened view of love.

Is it love to go and infect your "partner" with HIV-AIDS as is done on a regular basis with these people, because they are so addicted to these actions that, "Well, we're in love, so let's skip this minor detail."

I suppose you'd rather us be like the sick Romans and Greeks, where homosexuality was considered macho and heterosexuality was a necessary evil. Over ninety-percent of the so-called men in these societies engaged in this repulsive behaivor, so much so that people were worried that their populations would shrink, so they passed mandatory breeding laws. Don't tell me that all of these people were born gay, that fact is that in a society that strongly encourages homosexuality, more people will think it is perfectly fine and legitimate to be a fag. It is the same with every habit and addiction.

The mass spreading and aceptence of Homosexuality among ancient  Greeks and Romans is the homo lobby mith too. See this -
Homophylophilia in Ancient Greece - The Myth is Collapsing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHk9JoXoBMY
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on November 07, 2007, 04:55:29 AM
I can prove Michaelangelo was gay.

If he'd been straight, the Sistine Chapel would have got two coats of off-white! :D
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Ultra Requete on November 07, 2007, 04:57:58 AM
I can prove Michaelangelo was gay.

If he'd been straight, the Sistine Chapel would have got two coats of off-white! :D

And Nicholaus Kopernikus was German gay woman too. :D
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Kiwi on November 07, 2007, 05:04:29 AM
I can prove Michaelangelo was gay.

If he'd been straight, the Sistine Chapel would have got two coats of off-white! :D

Ok there a point  ???
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 25, 2008, 03:40:09 AM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 25, 2008, 01:04:19 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.

There is no mitzva against women wearing pants, per se. It is only against 'dressing as men' and immodesty. Pants or slacks of an exclusivly female cut or style that are not skin tight should be entirely appropriate.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on January 25, 2008, 01:06:07 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.

There is no mitzva against women wearing pants, per se. It is only against 'dressing as men' and immodesty. Pants or slacks of an exclusivly female cut or style that are not skin tight should be entirely appropriate.
For Gentiles, not Jews.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: kellymaureen on January 25, 2008, 01:17:58 PM
Its 20 below zero today, Im heading 5 hours up north for a tournament where it will be even colder, Im wearing pants ;)  I dont think I look like a man wearing pants :-\
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 25, 2008, 01:27:25 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.

There is no mitzva against women wearing pants, per se. It is only against 'dressing as men' and immodesty. Pants or slacks of an exclusivly female cut or style that are not skin tight should be entirely appropriate.
For Gentiles, not Jews.

No, for Jewesses too. There is no mention of 'pants'. I heard an orthodox rabbi discuss it one day. Most religious have just assumed that 'like a man' means pants. But that could refer to blouses (which are like mens shirts) if you take it that far.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: judeanoncapta on January 25, 2008, 02:00:44 PM
yes and no; I agree on your points; but pants aren't immoral per se; but they're were intruduced by Germans ::); Ancient Israelite men didn't wear them too. 8;)

Actually some did.

But they were considered to be like underwear and an Israelite would never walk around with the pants uncovered for anyone to see.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: judeanoncapta on January 25, 2008, 02:01:55 PM
to each their own...

But men shoudl not wear skirts or women's clothes...Women shoudl not wear suits..but pants are fashionable for both sexes.

I meant of course tunics or garbs (I  don't know English word for this) the Prophets from Tanath on all this fims wore not women's skirts.

I know the Hebrew word for this garment.

Haluq.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: kellymaureen on January 25, 2008, 02:04:06 PM
Its 20 below zero today, Im heading 5 hours up north for a tournament where it will be even colder, Im wearing pants ;)  I dont think I look like a man wearing pants :-\

Well I object on moral grounds!

If I was there I'd demand their immediate removal!

 :::D  frostbite in 3...2...1
I really hate the cold :(
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: judeanoncapta on January 25, 2008, 02:04:55 PM
i cant believe you guys are discussing if pants are moral??? its 2007, its more comfortable than skirts sometimes and in all honesty, since in 2007 women work - pants are a much better option!

and p.s for someone up there who said men shouldnt wear skirts - skirts aka kilt - sound familiar?

Beleive it.

Israelite women from the time of Abraham through about fifty years ago NEVER wore pants.

So, 2007 or not. There are good reasons to refrain, atleast for Jews. I'm not trying to tell Gentiles what to do, but for Jews it goes against our tradition.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on January 25, 2008, 02:25:46 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.

There is no mitzva against women wearing pants, per se. It is only against 'dressing as men' and immodesty. Pants or slacks of an exclusivly female cut or style that are not skin tight should be entirely appropriate.
For Gentiles, not Jews.

No, for Jewesses too. There is no mention of 'pants'. I heard an orthodox rabbi discuss it one day. Most religious have just assumed that 'like a man' means pants. But that could refer to blouses (which are like mens shirts) if you take it that far.
I doubt there is a single Posek who will tell you that pants are ok for Women.  Jewesses need to stick to skirts...
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 25, 2008, 02:32:51 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.

There is no mitzva against women wearing pants, per se. It is only against 'dressing as men' and immodesty. Pants or slacks of an exclusivly female cut or style that are not skin tight should be entirely appropriate.
For Gentiles, not Jews.

No, for Jewesses too. There is no mention of 'pants'. I heard an orthodox rabbi discuss it one day. Most religious have just assumed that 'like a man' means pants. But that could refer to blouses (which are like mens shirts) if you take it that far.
I doubt there is a single Posek who will tell you that pants are ok for Women.  Jewesses need to stick to skirts...

It's probably tradition, custom and Rabbinical ruling, but the only mention of pants in the Bible is the commandment for the high priests to wear them under their tunics so as not to expose themselves.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on January 26, 2008, 08:44:27 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.

There is no mitzva against women wearing pants, per se. It is only against 'dressing as men' and immodesty. Pants or slacks of an exclusivly female cut or style that are not skin tight should be entirely appropriate.
For Gentiles, not Jews.

No, for Jewesses too. There is no mention of 'pants'. I heard an orthodox rabbi discuss it one day. Most religious have just assumed that 'like a man' means pants. But that could refer to blouses (which are like mens shirts) if you take it that far.
I doubt there is a single Posek who will tell you that pants are ok for Women.  Jewesses need to stick to skirts...
It's probably tradition, custom and Rabbinical ruling, but the only mention of pants in the Bible is the commandment for the high priests to wear them under their tunics so as not to expose themselves.
Could be, but Mitzvos D'Rabbanan still need to be followed...
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 26, 2008, 09:00:15 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: jdl4ever on January 27, 2008, 01:05:50 AM
The reason why in the past women did not wear pants was because pants was exclusively male clothing and a woman wearing a man's clothes is forbidden from the Torah.  However nowadays pants are not exclusively a male's form dress since a lot of women wear pants as well so there is a good reason to allow it.  Personally I think there is no problem with women wearing pants today. 
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 02:30:38 AM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on January 27, 2008, 11:19:29 AM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 01:56:23 PM
How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 02:32:23 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair. We're not living in a world where women should be held captive and told what to do and how to do it. I'm  a Christian and I understand that I don't have to impress God with what I wear. I don't feel that I or any other woman should have to dress up to go to church. God said, come as you are, not dress in your Sunday's best. I doubt that when I get to heaven, God will be conducting a head to toe inspection.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 02:40:17 PM
How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on January 27, 2008, 03:05:14 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 03:21:24 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.
What's wrong with the female form? What? Are we supposed to be box-shaped or something? I think some men here are very sexist. Skirts can show form also. Unless you're looking for a woman who looks as if she's wearing a nun's habit or something like that. I also want to say something that will probably make you mad. In muslim communities women are ordered to wear the hijab which covers their hair (most times their faces), arms, hands, and the rest of their body. They also think that their women would look imorral if they wore pants...like they'd be disrespecting their bodies. I don't get either philosophy...but hey, I'm not a part of either religion.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 03:32:42 PM
I'm sorry, I hate to just barge in.... but about this post and women wearing skirts....
But isn't this ONLY for Jewish women? For Tznius purposes.
Not for Gentile women since they have other laws that apply to them.
I'm sorry but I thought that the "only-Skirt...no pants" thing does not apply to gentile women.

I await opinions on this...I'll be back later I have to step out right now
Remember, Mills, what some people think about Jewish women here, they think that the entire female population should follow suit. If a Jewish woman, or ANY woman decides to wear a skirt every day on her own, without a man telling them "I'm not comfortable with you wearing pants..", I'm supportive of that. I'm not comfortable with someone or anyone telling all women that wearing pants will send them to hell. I love skirts but I enjoy the freedom of choosing whether to wear a skirt, a pair of pants, or a pair of shorts on occasion. To some women, wearing pants isn't considered imorral.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on January 27, 2008, 03:39:26 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.
What's wrong with the female form? What? Are we supposed to be box-shaped or something? I think some men here are very sexist. Skirts can show form also.
What's wrong with the female form is this - to be honest, for the most part, men are a lot less "mature" than women, and you're not allowed to "put a stumbling block in front of the blind man."  And Mills, you are probably right about goyim wearing pants, but I certainly don't want anyone to thing that they're universally acceptable...
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 03:57:29 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.
What's wrong with the female form? What? Are we supposed to be box-shaped or something? I think some men here are very sexist. Skirts can show form also.
What's wrong with the female form is this - to be honest, for the most part, men are a lot less "mature" than women, and you're not allowed to "put a stumbling block in front of the blind man."  And Mills, you are probably right about goyim wearing pants, but I certainly don't want anyone to thing that they're universally acceptable...
Your first statement didn't make sense. Could you clarify please? Of course, men are a lot less 'mature' than women because we're each built differently. Now women are supposed to look more feminine but tone it down a bit so that no men 'stumble over their beauty'? I don't understand that. I already know that wearing pants for women is  not universally acceptable...I'm just saying that no woman will go to hell because she is wearing a pair of pants.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 27, 2008, 04:18:08 PM

Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

Women wear blouses and they show form.

Blouses are also the 'same' as a man's shirt.

Yet..........Jewish women can wear blouses.

The Rabbinical ruling seems contradictory at the very least.

Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: jdl4ever on January 27, 2008, 04:20:08 PM
This discussion only applies for Jews.  I don't buy the nonsense that regular pants "show a woman's figure" unless they are very tight pants.  Normal pants are worn today by more women than skirts are worn by women so there should be no problem with Jewish women wearing pants today in my opinion.  It is a Biblical Prohibition against men wearing women's clothing and women wearing men's clothing, no Rabbinical prohibitions here.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 27, 2008, 04:28:30 PM
This discussion only applies for Jews.  I don't buy the nonsense that regular pants "show a woman's figure" unless they are very tight pants.  Normal pants are worn today by more women than skirts are worn by women so there should be no problem with Jewish women wearing pants today in my opinion.  It is a Biblical Prohibition against men wearing women's clothing and women wearing men's clothing, no Rabbinical prohibitions here.

That's the point.

Women slacks (female style & cut) are NOT 'mens' clothing. If a man was to try wearing females slacks: 1/ They wouln't fit. 2/ It would look so obvious that they were female garb. Therefore the prohibition (I think) refers to women wearing MEN'S (male style & cut) clothes and vica versa.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 04:56:40 PM
This discussion only applies for Jews.  I don't buy the nonsense that regular pants "show a woman's figure" unless they are very tight pants.  Normal pants are worn today by more women than skirts are worn by women so there should be no problem with Jewish women wearing pants today in my opinion.  It is a Biblical Prohibition against men wearing women's clothing and women wearing men's clothing, no Rabbinical prohibitions here.
That's the point.

Women slacks (female style & cut) are NOT 'mens' clothing. If a man was to try wearing females slacks: 1/ They wouln't fit. 2/ It would look so obvious that they were female garb. Therefore the prohibition (I think) refers to women wearing MEN'S (male style & cut) clothes and vica versa.
I was going to say that, Newman. Women are built differently than men so naturally the cut of each pair of pants will be different. The front (crotch area around the zipper and such) is slightly longer than that of the women's pants. I don't think women look good in men's pants either however there are some women who work in industrial sites who have to wear coveralls that are cut to a man's build. I love female dress suits with pants. I don't like tight fitting clothing.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on January 27, 2008, 04:58:16 PM
This discussion only applies for Jews.  I don't buy the nonsense that regular pants "show a woman's figure" unless they are very tight pants.  Normal pants are worn today by more women than skirts are worn by women so there should be no problem with Jewish women wearing pants today in my opinion.  It is a Biblical Prohibition against men wearing women's clothing and women wearing men's clothing, no Rabbinical prohibitions here.

That's the point.

Women slacks (female style & cut) are NOT 'mens' clothing. If a man was to try wearing females slacks: 1/ They wouln't fit. 2/ It would look so obvious that they were female garb. Therefore the prohibition (I think) refers to women wearing MEN'S (male style & cut) clothes and vica versa.
Well, virtually every Rabbi disagrees with you, though.  If you put a different cage on a hockey helmet, it's still a hockey helmet...
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 27, 2008, 05:17:58 PM
This discussion only applies for Jews.  I don't buy the nonsense that regular pants "show a woman's figure" unless they are very tight pants.  Normal pants are worn today by more women than skirts are worn by women so there should be no problem with Jewish women wearing pants today in my opinion.  It is a Biblical Prohibition against men wearing women's clothing and women wearing men's clothing, no Rabbinical prohibitions here.

That's the point.

Women slacks (female style & cut) are NOT 'mens' clothing. If a man was to try wearing females slacks: 1/ They wouln't fit. 2/ It would look so obvious that they were female garb. Therefore the prohibition (I think) refers to women wearing MEN'S (male style & cut) clothes and vica versa.
Well, virtually every Rabbi disagrees with you, though.  If you put a different cage on a hockey helmet, it's still a hockey helmet...

But they allow women to wear blouses (which are the same as mens shirts) so they are contradicting themselves.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 27, 2008, 06:02:18 PM
This discussion only applies for Jews.  I don't buy the nonsense that regular pants "show a woman's figure" unless they are very tight pants.  Normal pants are worn today by more women than skirts are worn by women so there should be no problem with Jewish women wearing pants today in my opinion.  It is a Biblical Prohibition against men wearing women's clothing and women wearing men's clothing, no Rabbinical prohibitions here.

That's the point.

Women slacks (female style & cut) are NOT 'mens' clothing. If a man was to try wearing females slacks: 1/ They wouln't fit. 2/ It would look so obvious that they were female garb. Therefore the prohibition (I think) refers to women wearing MEN'S (male style & cut) clothes and vica versa.
Well, virtually every Rabbi disagrees with you, though.  If you put a different cage on a hockey helmet, it's still a hockey helmet...

But they allow women to wear blouses (which are the same as mens shirts) so they are contradicting themselves.


So then what are "women's shirts"?



Good question, and that's my point.

Womens shirts are only as different (or the same) from mens shirts as womens pants are from mens pants. So why is one allowed and not the other?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 06:27:43 PM
This discussion only applies for Jews.  I don't buy the nonsense that regular pants "show a woman's figure" unless they are very tight pants.  Normal pants are worn today by more women than skirts are worn by women so there should be no problem with Jewish women wearing pants today in my opinion.  It is a Biblical Prohibition against men wearing women's clothing and women wearing men's clothing, no Rabbinical prohibitions here.

That's the point.

Women slacks (female style & cut) are NOT 'mens' clothing. If a man was to try wearing females slacks: 1/ They wouln't fit. 2/ It would look so obvious that they were female garb. Therefore the prohibition (I think) refers to women wearing MEN'S (male style & cut) clothes and vica versa.
Well, virtually every Rabbi disagrees with you, though.  If you put a different cage on a hockey helmet, it's still a hockey helmet...

But they allow women to wear blouses (which are the same as mens shirts) so they are contradicting themselves.


So then what are "women's shirts"?


Women's shirts are blouses.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 06:39:30 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 06:52:46 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 06:57:59 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.

We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air.  Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".

Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 07:04:57 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.

We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air.  Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".


If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 08:54:15 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.

We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air.  Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".


If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.

In my opinion, fantasies about other women while a man is married to his own wife isn't such a good thing..although I'm sure it happens to the best of every single one of us..female and male.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 09:18:10 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.

We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air.  Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".


If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.

In my opinion, fantasies about other women while a man is married to his own wife isn't such a good thing..although I'm sure it happens to the best of every single one of us..female and male.
I never mentioned it being okay if a married male has fantasies about other women. A decent man doesn't always mean a married man.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 27, 2008, 09:20:57 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.

I don't care what you wear. You are not Jewish, therefore the laws of modesty do not apply to you. The issue here isn't so much the Torah prohibition against crossdressing, it is the prohibition against immodesty on both men and women. Tight-fitting skirts or pants are also prohibited.

Second, I'm not threatened by women who wear pants. If you want to look like a man, go ahead. If that's the way you want to express your feminist liberation, by all means.
There is the sexist in you. I don't wear pants to look like a man. That's why women have slacks that cater to their body type. Pants aren't a MAN thing... everyone should have the right to wear pants if they want to. I look feminine in pants.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on January 27, 2008, 09:32:27 PM
OdKahaneChai: Can you please explain, for a friend of mine, why a woman
 is allowed to wear a blouse, but not pants?
OdKahaneChai: He contends that it's the same concept, and that the
 Rabbonim are contradicting themselves
Rabbi Velvel: The reason Halachah discourages women from wearing pants
 is because the pant garment more clearly emphasizes the women's body
 outline as opposed to a skirt.
Rabbi Velvel: How can the same be said about the blouse?
Rabbi Velvel: Pants might be considered more suggestive and less
 concealing then a skirt/dress
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 09:50:32 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.

We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air.  Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".


If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.

In my opinion, fantasies about other women while a man is married to his own wife isn't such a good thing..although I'm sure it happens to the best of every single one of us..female and male.
I never mentioned it being okay if a married male has fantasies about other women. A decent man doesn't always mean a married man.

So then you proved my point...A married man will still look..but if there are no opportunities to look he'll be better off and a better husband.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 09:52:20 PM
OdKahaneChai: Can you please explain, for a friend of mine, why a woman
 is allowed to wear a blouse, but not pants?
OdKahaneChai: He contends that it's the same concept, and that the
 Rabbonim are contradicting themselves
Rabbi Velvel: The reason Halachah discourages women from wearing pants
 is because the pant garment more clearly emphasizes the women's body
 outline as opposed to a skirt.
Rabbi Velvel: How can the same be said about the blouse?
Rabbi Velvel: Pants might be considered more suggestive and less
 concealing then a skirt/dress

Not entirely true...Those skirts can look really pretty on a woman.....
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 27, 2008, 10:01:29 PM
OdKahaneChai: Can you please explain, for a friend of mine, why a woman
 is allowed to wear a blouse, but not pants?
OdKahaneChai: He contends that it's the same concept, and that the
 Rabbonim are contradicting themselves
Rabbi Velvel: The reason Halachah discourages women from wearing pants
 is because the pant garment more clearly emphasizes the women's body
 outline as opposed to a skirt.
Rabbi Velvel: How can the same be said about the blouse?
Rabbi Velvel: Pants might be considered more suggestive and less
 concealing then a skirt/dress
That answer does not explain why blouses are allowed since blouses clearly show as much (if not more) form than pants.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on January 27, 2008, 10:03:44 PM
OdKahaneChai: Can you please explain, for a friend of mine, why a woman
 is allowed to wear a blouse, but not pants?
OdKahaneChai: He contends that it's the same concept, and that the
 Rabbonim are contradicting themselves
Rabbi Velvel: The reason Halachah discourages women from wearing pants
 is because the pant garment more clearly emphasizes the women's body
 outline as opposed to a skirt.
Rabbi Velvel: How can the same be said about the blouse?
Rabbi Velvel: Pants might be considered more suggestive and less
 concealing then a skirt/dress
Not entirely true...Those skirts can look really pretty on a woman.....
Who said anything about looking pretty?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on January 27, 2008, 10:12:32 PM
OdKahaneChai: Can you please explain, for a friend of mine, why a woman
 is allowed to wear a blouse, but not pants?
OdKahaneChai: He contends that it's the same concept, and that the
 Rabbonim are contradicting themselves
Rabbi Velvel: The reason Halachah discourages women from wearing pants
 is because the pant garment more clearly emphasizes the women's body
 outline as opposed to a skirt.
Rabbi Velvel: How can the same be said about the blouse?
Rabbi Velvel: Pants might be considered more suggestive and less
 concealing then a skirt/dress
Not entirely true...Those skirts can look really pretty on a woman.....
Who said anything about looking pretty?

So this rabbi suggests that a woman wearing pants shows off the shape of her body better than a skirt.  And the body can cause a man to stray from knowing the woman's brain.
However, if the pants are baggy or designed in such a way that it doesn't extentuate the body, it woud lhave to be permitted.
Therefore, it is not that pants are a man's clothing that a woman shouldn't wear it, but that she wearing pants may in fact compromise the modesty.
This type of modesty is a fence around the torah.
All i have to say is be careful of other fences that might come from this one..the next step might be wearing a burka, Gd forbid.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 27, 2008, 11:06:34 PM
OdKahaneChai: Can you please explain, for a friend of mine, why a woman
 is allowed to wear a blouse, but not pants?
OdKahaneChai: He contends that it's the same concept, and that the
 Rabbonim are contradicting themselves
Rabbi Velvel: The reason Halachah discourages women from wearing pants
 is because the pant garment more clearly emphasizes the women's body
 outline as opposed to a skirt.
Rabbi Velvel: How can the same be said about the blouse?
Rabbi Velvel: Pants might be considered more suggestive and less
 concealing then a skirt/dress
Not entirely true...Those skirts can look really pretty on a woman.....
Who said anything about looking pretty?

So this rabbi suggests that a woman wearing pants shows off the shape of her body better than a skirt.  And the body can cause a man to stray from knowing the woman's brain.
However, if the pants are baggy or designed in such a way that it doesn't extentuate the body, it woud lhave to be permitted.
Therefore, it is not that pants are a man's clothing that a woman shouldn't wear it, but that she wearing pants may in fact compromise the modesty.
This type of modesty is a fence around the torah.
All i have to say is be careful of other fences that might come from this one..the next step might be wearing a burka, Gd forbid.

There's a name for a man who can't look at a woman without being driven to a lustfull, raping frenzy............................a "muSSlim".
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 28, 2008, 04:51:34 AM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.

We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air.  Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".


If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.

In my opinion, fantasies about other women while a man is married to his own wife isn't such a good thing..although I'm sure it happens to the best of every single one of us..female and male.
I never mentioned it being okay if a married male has fantasies about other women. A decent man doesn't always mean a married man.

So then you proved my point...A married man will still look..but if there are no opportunities to look he'll be better off and a better husband.
So if men were blind and stripped of the right to admire the beauty of a woman,  they'd be better suited husbands? lol Women can look attractive in any way. Some men think women who don't wear makeup are attractive, while some men think that women who wear skirts are attractive. Is it wrong for a man to even think that a woman is attractive when he first meets her, or even sees her on the street?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on January 28, 2008, 07:47:50 AM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.

We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air.  Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".


If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.

In my opinion, fantasies about other women while a man is married to his own wife isn't such a good thing..although I'm sure it happens to the best of every single one of us..female and male.
I never mentioned it being okay if a married male has fantasies about other women. A decent man doesn't always mean a married man.

So then you proved my point...A married man will still look..but if there are no opportunities to look he'll be better off and a better husband.
So if men were blind and stripped of the right to admire the beauty of a woman,  they'd be better suited husbands? lol Women can look attractive in any way. Some men think women who don't wear makeup are attractive, while some men think that women who wear skirts are attractive. Is it wrong for a man to even think that a woman is attractive when he first meets her, or even sees her on the street?

That's not what I said.  One can admire beauty...it's taking the beauty and making something sexual to it.

Some women are wholesome pretty with makeup wearing nice clothes..even pants...

Other women, distract attention from their face and brain to their cleavage or butt. 

Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 28, 2008, 08:43:29 AM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.

We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air.  Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".


If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.

In my opinion, fantasies about other women while a man is married to his own wife isn't such a good thing..although I'm sure it happens to the best of every single one of us..female and male.
I never mentioned it being okay if a married male has fantasies about other women. A decent man doesn't always mean a married man.

So then you proved my point...A married man will still look..but if there are no opportunities to look he'll be better off and a better husband.
So if men were blind and stripped of the right to admire the beauty of a woman,  they'd be better suited husbands? lol Women can look attractive in any way. Some men think women who don't wear makeup are attractive, while some men think that women who wear skirts are attractive. Is it wrong for a man to even think that a woman is attractive when he first meets her, or even sees her on the street?

That's not what I said.  One can admire beauty...it's taking the beauty and making something sexual to it.

Some women are wholesome pretty with makeup wearing nice clothes..even pants...

Other women, distract attention from their face and brain to their cleavage or butt. 


When did the discussion take a turn into inappropriate blouses and tight pants? I thought that some of you (not necessarily you, Dan) were against women wearing ANY kind of pants; even baggy pants.

Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Lisa on January 28, 2008, 10:18:47 AM
Here's my perspective on the whole pants/skirts issue as a Jewish woman. 

I think a skirt can be immodest just as very low rise or tight pants can be immodest.  It all depends on the style. 

But there's one more thing.  Regardless of their religious beliefs (or lack thereof) many women will find ways of showing off their bodies.  I have seen this first hand   There was a woman in my parents synagogue wearing a long modest skirt.  But her top was skin tight, and *really* emphasized her cleavage.  And somehow I did not think it was a matter of not being able to afford a properly fitting top. 

Anyway, at another singles event, there was the wife of this rabbi wearing a long, modest skirt, but again, her top was skin tight, which emphasized *everything.*  And I doubt these are the only two women wearing tight tops. 

A cousin of mine married a nice religious Jewish girl.  She and I were talking, and she said flat out this it's natural for young women who want to show off their bodies.  She also said that many religious girls get around the long skirt rule by wearing very tight clothes. 
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: mord on January 28, 2008, 10:22:24 AM
I think it's a good idea for women to wear pants it's better then if they go out in public without pants on
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on January 28, 2008, 01:11:28 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.

We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air.  Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".


If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.

In my opinion, fantasies about other women while a man is married to his own wife isn't such a good thing..although I'm sure it happens to the best of every single one of us..female and male.
I never mentioned it being okay if a married male has fantasies about other women. A decent man doesn't always mean a married man.

So then you proved my point...A married man will still look..but if there are no opportunities to look he'll be better off and a better husband.
So if men were blind and stripped of the right to admire the beauty of a woman,  they'd be better suited husbands? lol Women can look attractive in any way. Some men think women who don't wear makeup are attractive, while some men think that women who wear skirts are attractive. Is it wrong for a man to even think that a woman is attractive when he first meets her, or even sees her on the street?

That's not what I said.  One can admire beauty...it's taking the beauty and making something sexual to it.

Some women are wholesome pretty with makeup wearing nice clothes..even pants...

Other women, distract attention from their face and brain to their cleavage or butt. 


When did the discussion take a turn into inappropriate blouses and tight pants? I thought that some of you (not necessarily you, Dan) were against women wearing ANY kind of pants; even baggy pants.



Many Jewish religious and observant circles believe that women should wear skirts and men wear pants.  This doesn't necessarily mean that this should apply to non-Jews...so you're in the clear, Erica.

The reasoning by some rabbis about the skirts are two that I know of.  That pants are men's clothing and that cross-dressing is wrong.  Jewihs women wear women's clothing and men men's clothing.  The second one is that pants may extentuate the female form more than a skirt and therefore reduces her modesty.

NOt all rabbis feel this way, but I respect those who do feel this way.

The bottom line, i believe, to these rules is that:

1. Cross dressing can lead to confusion...Look at the trans sexuals today...the ones that do a good job of it look like women...and woa would be a man who gets attractd to that thinking it is a woman...not a good thing.

2. THe female form is very sexy and can potentially lead some men astray.

So these rabbinical rules are fences...

I'll give you an example...waiting for a subway there is a yellow line that no one should cross so that no accidents should befall them.  Some people wait right behind the yellow line. HOwever, I wait far away from the yellow line.  These Jewish fences are similar also.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on January 28, 2008, 01:15:34 PM
Here's my perspective on the whole pants/skirts issue as a Jewish woman. 

I think a skirt can be immodest just as very low rise or tight pants can be immodest.  It all depends on the style. 

But there's one more thing.  Regardless of their religious beliefs (or lack thereof) many women will find ways of showing off their bodies.  I have seen this first hand   There was a woman in my parents synagogue wearing a long modest skirt.  But her top was skin tight, and *really* emphasized her cleavage.  And somehow I did not think it was a matter of not being able to afford a properly fitting top. 

Anyway, at another singles event, there was the wife of this rabbi wearing a long, modest skirt, but again, her top was skin tight, which emphasized *everything.*  And I doubt these are the only two women wearing tight tops. 

A cousin of mine married a nice religious Jewish girl.  She and I were talking, and she said flat out this it's natural for young women who want to show off their bodies.  She also said that many religious girls get around the long skirt rule by wearing very tight clothes. 

I'm sure there is a way to bend the rules....

HOwever, a wise female (who i'm currently dating) said to me that she doesn't dress in these ways because it will cause the man she is dating to stray away from her brain.  And certainly, on our first date and so on, she has not worn anything that would let my eyes go astray from her face and her mind.

THese other women, religious or not, who might not show cleavage, but wear something tight to show off the size of their boobs aren't doing justice to themselves if they want to find a man who will like her for her mind and not her body.

To add, there is nothing wrong with men liking sexy women, but i think it's better to first like a woman's mind before likeing her physical form.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 28, 2008, 03:17:08 PM
With western cities and transit systems full of raping muSSlims and blacks a lot of women feel safer in sturdy pants than a dress or skirt.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on January 28, 2008, 03:37:17 PM
OdKahaneChai: Can you please explain, for a friend of mine, why a woman
 is allowed to wear a blouse, but not pants?
OdKahaneChai: He contends that it's the same concept, and that the
 Rabbonim are contradicting themselves
Rabbi Velvel: The reason Halachah discourages women from wearing pants
 is because the pant garment more clearly emphasizes the women's body
 outline as opposed to a skirt.
Rabbi Velvel: How can the same be said about the blouse?
Rabbi Velvel: Pants might be considered more suggestive and less
 concealing then a skirt/dress
Not entirely true...Those skirts can look really pretty on a woman.....
Who said anything about looking pretty?

So this rabbi suggests that a woman wearing pants shows off the shape of her body better than a skirt.  And the body can cause a man to stray from knowing the woman's brain.
However, if the pants are baggy or designed in such a way that it doesn't extentuate the body, it woud lhave to be permitted.
Therefore, it is not that pants are a man's clothing that a woman shouldn't wear it, but that she wearing pants may in fact compromise the modesty.
This type of modesty is a fence around the torah.
All i have to say is be careful of other fences that might come from this one..the next step might be wearing a burka, Gd forbid.
One is not allowed to cover the face.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on January 28, 2008, 03:52:36 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.

We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air.  Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".


If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.

In my opinion, fantasies about other women while a man is married to his own wife isn't such a good thing..although I'm sure it happens to the best of every single one of us..female and male.
I never mentioned it being okay if a married male has fantasies about other women. A decent man doesn't always mean a married man.

So then you proved my point...A married man will still look..but if there are no opportunities to look he'll be better off and a better husband.
So if men were blind and stripped of the right to admire the beauty of a woman,  they'd be better suited husbands? lol Women can look attractive in any way. Some men think women who don't wear makeup are attractive, while some men think that women who wear skirts are attractive. Is it wrong for a man to even think that a woman is attractive when he first meets her, or even sees her on the street?

That's not what I said.  One can admire beauty...it's taking the beauty and making something sexual to it.

Some women are wholesome pretty with makeup wearing nice clothes..even pants...

Other women, distract attention from their face and brain to their cleavage or butt. 


When did the discussion take a turn into inappropriate blouses and tight pants? I thought that some of you (not necessarily you, Dan) were against women wearing ANY kind of pants; even baggy pants.



Many Jewish religious and observant circles believe that women should wear skirts and men wear pants.  This doesn't necessarily mean that this should apply to non-Jews...so you're in the clear, Erica.

The reasoning by some rabbis about the skirts are two that I know of.  That pants are men's clothing and that cross-dressing is wrong.  Jewihs women wear women's clothing and men men's clothing.  The second one is that pants may extentuate the female form more than a skirt and therefore reduces her modesty.

NOt all rabbis feel this way, but I respect those who do feel this way.

The bottom line, i believe, to these rules is that:

1. Cross dressing can lead to confusion...Look at the trans sexuals today...the ones that do a good job of it look like women...and woa would be a man who gets attractd to that thinking it is a woman...not a good thing.

2. THe female form is very sexy and can potentially lead some men astray.

So these rabbinical rules are fences...

I'll give you an example...waiting for a subway there is a yellow line that no one should cross so that no accidents should befall them.  Some people wait right behind the yellow line. HOwever, I wait far away from the yellow line.  These Jewish fences are similar also.
Except for they're required.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 28, 2008, 05:17:10 PM
With western cities and transit systems full of raping muSSlims and blacks a lot of women feel safer in sturdy pants than a dress or skirt.
Newman, we have argued about this before. There are white rapists also and a lot don't seek out women wearing certain types of clothing... in the end rape isn't about what you have on, it's about an animal's power over you. Little girls are raped or molested every day, do you think it's because of the clothes they have on?

***ANYONE who has ever raped should not only be cut out from the rest of society but should have something 'cut off' in the process.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on January 28, 2008, 05:33:35 PM
OdKahaneChai: Can you please explain, for a friend of mine, why a woman
 is allowed to wear a blouse, but not pants?
OdKahaneChai: He contends that it's the same concept, and that the
 Rabbonim are contradicting themselves
Rabbi Velvel: The reason Halachah discourages women from wearing pants
 is because the pant garment more clearly emphasizes the women's body
 outline as opposed to a skirt.
Rabbi Velvel: How can the same be said about the blouse?
Rabbi Velvel: Pants might be considered more suggestive and less
 concealing then a skirt/dress
Not entirely true...Those skirts can look really pretty on a woman.....
Who said anything about looking pretty?

So this rabbi suggests that a woman wearing pants shows off the shape of her body better than a skirt.  And the body can cause a man to stray from knowing the woman's brain.
However, if the pants are baggy or designed in such a way that it doesn't extentuate the body, it woud lhave to be permitted.
Therefore, it is not that pants are a man's clothing that a woman shouldn't wear it, but that she wearing pants may in fact compromise the modesty.
This type of modesty is a fence around the torah.
All i have to say is be careful of other fences that might come from this one..the next step might be wearing a burka, Gd forbid.
One is not allowed to cover the face.

what about shadore.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on January 28, 2008, 05:34:51 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.

We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air.  Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".


If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.

In my opinion, fantasies about other women while a man is married to his own wife isn't such a good thing..although I'm sure it happens to the best of every single one of us..female and male.
I never mentioned it being okay if a married male has fantasies about other women. A decent man doesn't always mean a married man.

So then you proved my point...A married man will still look..but if there are no opportunities to look he'll be better off and a better husband.
So if men were blind and stripped of the right to admire the beauty of a woman,  they'd be better suited husbands? lol Women can look attractive in any way. Some men think women who don't wear makeup are attractive, while some men think that women who wear skirts are attractive. Is it wrong for a man to even think that a woman is attractive when he first meets her, or even sees her on the street?

That's not what I said.  One can admire beauty...it's taking the beauty and making something sexual to it.

Some women are wholesome pretty with makeup wearing nice clothes..even pants...

Other women, distract attention from their face and brain to their cleavage or butt. 


When did the discussion take a turn into inappropriate blouses and tight pants? I thought that some of you (not necessarily you, Dan) were against women wearing ANY kind of pants; even baggy pants.



Many Jewish religious and observant circles believe that women should wear skirts and men wear pants.  This doesn't necessarily mean that this should apply to non-Jews...so you're in the clear, Erica.

The reasoning by some rabbis about the skirts are two that I know of.  That pants are men's clothing and that cross-dressing is wrong.  Jewihs women wear women's clothing and men men's clothing.  The second one is that pants may extentuate the female form more than a skirt and therefore reduces her modesty.

NOt all rabbis feel this way, but I respect those who do feel this way.

The bottom line, i believe, to these rules is that:

1. Cross dressing can lead to confusion...Look at the trans sexuals today...the ones that do a good job of it look like women...and woa would be a man who gets attractd to that thinking it is a woman...not a good thing.

2. THe female form is very sexy and can potentially lead some men astray.

So these rabbinical rules are fences...

I'll give you an example...waiting for a subway there is a yellow line that no one should cross so that no accidents should befall them.  Some people wait right behind the yellow line. HOwever, I wait far away from the yellow line.  These Jewish fences are similar also.
Except for they're required.

Women are not required to wear skirts. They are required to cover their knees and elbows... Men are required to NOT where women's garb.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 28, 2008, 05:35:45 PM
With western cities and transit systems full of raping muSSlims and blacks a lot of women feel safer in sturdy pants than a dress or skirt.
Newman, we have argued about this before. There are white rapists also and a lot don't seek out women wearing certain types of clothing... in the end rape isn't about what you have on, it's about an animal's power over you. Little girls are raped or molested every day, do you think it's because of the clothes they have on?

***ANYONE who has ever raped should not only be cut out from the rest of society but should have something 'cut off' in the process.

1/ I'm not saying clothes make any difference to a rapist. They'll go for a woman in a power suit just as quick as one in a mini skirt. I'm just saying some women feel more secure in jeans because access to their privates is harder for a would-be attacker.

2/ Do I have to explain statistics to you for the 100th time? There are far more balack rapists per capita than white as you well know. In europe the tiny (5%) muSSlim population account for over 50% of all rapes. I imagine the blacks of the USA have a similar showing in the rape statistics relative to there overall % of population.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 28, 2008, 05:50:30 PM
OdKahaneChai: Can you please explain, for a friend of mine, why a woman
 is allowed to wear a blouse, but not pants?
OdKahaneChai: He contends that it's the same concept, and that the
 Rabbonim are contradicting themselves
Rabbi Velvel: The reason Halachah discourages women from wearing pants
 is because the pant garment more clearly emphasizes the women's body
 outline as opposed to a skirt.
Rabbi Velvel: How can the same be said about the blouse?
Rabbi Velvel: Pants might be considered more suggestive and less
 concealing then a skirt/dress
Not entirely true...Those skirts can look really pretty on a woman.....
Who said anything about looking pretty?

So this rabbi suggests that a woman wearing pants shows off the shape of her body better than a skirt.  And the body can cause a man to stray from knowing the woman's brain.
However, if the pants are baggy or designed in such a way that it doesn't extentuate the body, it woud lhave to be permitted.
Therefore, it is not that pants are a man's clothing that a woman shouldn't wear it, but that she wearing pants may in fact compromise the modesty.
This type of modesty is a fence around the torah.
All i have to say is be careful of other fences that might come from this one..the next step might be wearing a burka, Gd forbid.
One is not allowed to cover the face.
But to most men, faces are beautiful also. So what do you do about that? If a man can look at a woman's elbow and decide that the woman is beautiful, why can't he feel the same about her face?

My point is that putting sanctions on what a woman should or shouldn't wear is pointless because no matter what, a man will find something beautiful about her. She could be hajib'ed from head to toe but to some men, the way she walks is attractive also.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 28, 2008, 05:52:15 PM
With western cities and transit systems full of raping muSSlims and blacks a lot of women feel safer in sturdy pants than a dress or skirt.
Newman, we have argued about this before. There are white rapists also and a lot don't seek out women wearing certain types of clothing... in the end rape isn't about what you have on, it's about an animal's power over you. Little girls are raped or molested every day, do you think it's because of the clothes they have on?

***ANYONE who has ever raped should not only be cut out from the rest of society but should have something 'cut off' in the process.

1/ I'm not saying clothes make any difference to a rapist. They'll go for a woman in a power suit just as quick as one in a mini skirt. I'm just saying some women feel more secure in jeans because access to their privates is harder for a would-be attacker.

2/ Do I have to explain statistics to you for the 100th time? There are far more balack rapists per capita than white as you well know. In europe the tiny (5%) muSSlim population account for over 50% of all rapes. I imagine the blacks of the USA have a similar showing in the rape statistics relative to there overall % of population.
I don't care, really because in reality, anyone who rapes is a threat to females and males everywhere. My point is that there are whites in the fold also who rape. I'm not going out looking for 5% of Muslim men to rape me, I'm looking out for ANY man who'd try.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 28, 2008, 06:00:07 PM
With western cities and transit systems full of raping muSSlims and blacks a lot of women feel safer in sturdy pants than a dress or skirt.
Newman, we have argued about this before. There are white rapists also and a lot don't seek out women wearing certain types of clothing... in the end rape isn't about what you have on, it's about an animal's power over you. Little girls are raped or molested every day, do you think it's because of the clothes they have on?

***ANYONE who has ever raped should not only be cut out from the rest of society but should have something 'cut off' in the process.

1/ I'm not saying clothes make any difference to a rapist. They'll go for a woman in a power suit just as quick as one in a mini skirt. I'm just saying some women feel more secure in jeans because access to their privates is harder for a would-be attacker.

2/ Do I have to explain statistics to you for the 100th time? There are far more balack rapists per capita than white as you well know. In europe the tiny (5%) muSSlim population account for over 50% of all rapes. I imagine the blacks of the USA have a similar showing in the rape statistics relative to there overall % of population.
I don't care, really because in reality, anyone who rapes is a threat to females and males everywhere. My point is that there are whites in the fold also who rape. I'm not going out looking for 5% of Muslim men to rape me, I'm looking out for ANY man who'd try.

You've missed the point as usual.

A large % of pitbulls bite. A small % of poodles bite. Therefore we are more concerned about pitbulls than poodles.

A large % of russian Lada cars are lemons. A tiny % of Toyotas are lemons. Therefore we avoid buying Ladas in favour of Toyotas.

Get it?

So.................

Because a large% of black males rape, mug, stick-up and kill and a much much smaller % of whites   (                   "                     ), we are more cautious of blacks than whites.

This is the 500th time I (along with Ze'ev, Bullcat and others) have had to explain this concept to you. Why does it not sink in?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 28, 2008, 06:02:54 PM
With western cities and transit systems full of raping muSSlims and blacks a lot of women feel safer in sturdy pants than a dress or skirt.
Newman, we have argued about this before. There are white rapists also and a lot don't seek out women wearing certain types of clothing... in the end rape isn't about what you have on, it's about an animal's power over you. Little girls are raped or molested every day, do you think it's because of the clothes they have on?

***ANYONE who has ever raped should not only be cut out from the rest of society but should have something 'cut off' in the process.

1/ I'm not saying clothes make any difference to a rapist. They'll go for a woman in a power suit just as quick as one in a mini skirt. I'm just saying some women feel more secure in jeans because access to their privates is harder for a would-be attacker.

2/ Do I have to explain statistics to you for the 100th time? There are far more balack rapists per capita than white as you well know. In europe the tiny (5%) muSSlim population account for over 50% of all rapes. I imagine the blacks of the USA have a similar showing in the rape statistics relative to there overall % of population.
I don't care, really because in reality, anyone who rapes is a threat to females and males everywhere. My point is that there are whites in the fold also who rape. I'm not going out looking for 5% of Muslim men to rape me, I'm looking out for ANY man who'd try.

You've missed the point as usual.

A large % of pitbulls bite. A small % of poodles bite. Therefore we are more concerned about pitbulls than poodles.

A large % of russian Lada cars are lemons. A tiny % of Toyotas are lemons. Therefore we avoid buying Ladas in favour of Toyotas.

Get it?

So.................

Because a large% of black males rape, mug, stick-up and kill and a much much smaller % of whites   (                   "                     ), we are more cautious of blacks than whites.

This is the 500th time I (along with Ze'ev, Bullcat and others) have had to explain this concept to you. Why does it not sink in?
You and your analogies...like I said, I'm not going out looking for black men or muslim men to rape me or my girls. I'm safeguarding them and teaching them to fear ANY stranger who may have thoughts of hurting them. Percentages aren't on my mind at this time. As soon as I start thinking of which percentage of Muslims will rape me, a black man will try. As soon as I start thinking of which percentage of black or white men will rape me, a Muslim will try. I just choose to be leary of people I get bad vibes from..not necessarily someone of a certain race.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 28, 2008, 06:10:24 PM
With western cities and transit systems full of raping muSSlims and blacks a lot of women feel safer in sturdy pants than a dress or skirt.
Newman, we have argued about this before. There are white rapists also and a lot don't seek out women wearing certain types of clothing... in the end rape isn't about what you have on, it's about an animal's power over you. Little girls are raped or molested every day, do you think it's because of the clothes they have on?

***ANYONE who has ever raped should not only be cut out from the rest of society but should have something 'cut off' in the process.

1/ I'm not saying clothes make any difference to a rapist. They'll go for a woman in a power suit just as quick as one in a mini skirt. I'm just saying some women feel more secure in jeans because access to their privates is harder for a would-be attacker.

2/ Do I have to explain statistics to you for the 100th time? There are far more balack rapists per capita than white as you well know. In europe the tiny (5%) muSSlim population account for over 50% of all rapes. I imagine the blacks of the USA have a similar showing in the rape statistics relative to there overall % of population.
I don't care, really because in reality, anyone who rapes is a threat to females and males everywhere. My point is that there are whites in the fold also who rape. I'm not going out looking for 5% of Muslim men to rape me, I'm looking out for ANY man who'd try.

You've missed the point as usual.

A large % of pitbulls bite. A small % of poodles bite. Therefore we are more concerned about pitbulls than poodles.

A large % of russian Lada cars are lemons. A tiny % of Toyotas are lemons. Therefore we avoid buying Ladas in favour of Toyotas.

Get it?

So.................

Because a large% of black males rape, mug, stick-up and kill and a much much smaller % of whites   (                   "                     ), we are more cautious of blacks than whites.

This is the 500th time I (along with Ze'ev, Bullcat and others) have had to explain this concept to you. Why does it not sink in?
You and your analogies...like I said, I'm not going out looking for black men or muslim men to rape me or my girls. I'm safeguarding them and teaching them to fear ANY stranger who may have thoughts of hurting them. Percentages aren't on my mind at this time. As soon as I start thinking of which percentage of Muslims will rape me, a black man will try. As soon as I start thinking of which percentage of black or white men will rape me, a Muslim will try. I just choose to be leary of people I get bad vibes from..not necessarily someone of a certain race.

You're avoiding the issue.

Why did you say .......
Quote
There are white rapists also
?

What point were you trying to make?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 28, 2008, 06:18:26 PM
With western cities and transit systems full of raping muSSlims and blacks a lot of women feel safer in sturdy pants than a dress or skirt.
Newman, we have argued about this before. There are white rapists also and a lot don't seek out women wearing certain types of clothing... in the end rape isn't about what you have on, it's about an animal's power over you. Little girls are raped or molested every day, do you think it's because of the clothes they have on?

***ANYONE who has ever raped should not only be cut out from the rest of society but should have something 'cut off' in the process.

1/ I'm not saying clothes make any difference to a rapist. They'll go for a woman in a power suit just as quick as one in a mini skirt. I'm just saying some women feel more secure in jeans because access to their privates is harder for a would-be attacker.

2/ Do I have to explain statistics to you for the 100th time? There are far more balack rapists per capita than white as you well know. In europe the tiny (5%) muSSlim population account for over 50% of all rapes. I imagine the blacks of the USA have a similar showing in the rape statistics relative to there overall % of population.
I don't care, really because in reality, anyone who rapes is a threat to females and males everywhere. My point is that there are whites in the fold also who rape. I'm not going out looking for 5% of Muslim men to rape me, I'm looking out for ANY man who'd try.

You've missed the point as usual.

A large % of pitbulls bite. A small % of poodles bite. Therefore we are more concerned about pitbulls than poodles.

A large % of russian Lada cars are lemons. A tiny % of Toyotas are lemons. Therefore we avoid buying Ladas in favour of Toyotas.

Get it?

So.................

Because a large% of black males rape, mug, stick-up and kill and a much much smaller % of whites   (                   "                     ), we are more cautious of blacks than whites.

This is the 500th time I (along with Ze'ev, Bullcat and others) have had to explain this concept to you. Why does it not sink in?
You and your analogies...like I said, I'm not going out looking for black men or muslim men to rape me or my girls. I'm safeguarding them and teaching them to fear ANY stranger who may have thoughts of hurting them. Percentages aren't on my mind at this time. As soon as I start thinking of which percentage of Muslims will rape me, a black man will try. As soon as I start thinking of which percentage of black or white men will rape me, a Muslim will try. I just choose to be leary of people I get bad vibes from..not necessarily someone of a certain race.

You're avoiding the issue.

Why did you say .......
Quote
There are white rapists also
?

What point were you trying to make?
Because you never bring up white rapists when we have these discussions. NEVER. You make it seem as though they don't exist. Give every evil rapist equal bashing.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 28, 2008, 06:29:16 PM
With western cities and transit systems full of raping muSSlims and blacks a lot of women feel safer in sturdy pants than a dress or skirt.
Newman, we have argued about this before. There are white rapists also and a lot don't seek out women wearing certain types of clothing... in the end rape isn't about what you have on, it's about an animal's power over you. Little girls are raped or molested every day, do you think it's because of the clothes they have on?

***ANYONE who has ever raped should not only be cut out from the rest of society but should have something 'cut off' in the process.

1/ I'm not saying clothes make any difference to a rapist. They'll go for a woman in a power suit just as quick as one in a mini skirt. I'm just saying some women feel more secure in jeans because access to their privates is harder for a would-be attacker.

2/ Do I have to explain statistics to you for the 100th time? There are far more balack rapists per capita than white as you well know. In europe the tiny (5%) muSSlim population account for over 50% of all rapes. I imagine the blacks of the USA have a similar showing in the rape statistics relative to there overall % of population.
I don't care, really because in reality, anyone who rapes is a threat to females and males everywhere. My point is that there are whites in the fold also who rape. I'm not going out looking for 5% of Muslim men to rape me, I'm looking out for ANY man who'd try.

You've missed the point as usual.

A large % of pitbulls bite. A small % of poodles bite. Therefore we are more concerned about pitbulls than poodles.

A large % of russian Lada cars are lemons. A tiny % of Toyotas are lemons. Therefore we avoid buying Ladas in favour of Toyotas.

Get it?

So.................

Because a large% of black males rape, mug, stick-up and kill and a much much smaller % of whites   (                   "                     ), we are more cautious of blacks than whites.

This is the 500th time I (along with Ze'ev, Bullcat and others) have had to explain this concept to you. Why does it not sink in?
You and your analogies...like I said, I'm not going out looking for black men or muslim men to rape me or my girls. I'm safeguarding them and teaching them to fear ANY stranger who may have thoughts of hurting them. Percentages aren't on my mind at this time. As soon as I start thinking of which percentage of Muslims will rape me, a black man will try. As soon as I start thinking of which percentage of black or white men will rape me, a Muslim will try. I just choose to be leary of people I get bad vibes from..not necessarily someone of a certain race.

You're avoiding the issue.

Why did you say .......
Quote
There are white rapists also
?

What point were you trying to make?
Because you never bring up white rapists when we have these discussions. NEVER. You make it seem as though they don't exist. Give every evil rapist equal bashing.

That's like saying somebody complains about unreliable De Loreans but doesn't mention unreliable Toyotas. There's a reason.............. PROPORTIONALITY.

I repeat (and I'll keep repeating it 'til it sinks in):
Quote
A large % of pitbulls bite. A small % of poodles bite. Therefore we are more concerned about pitbulls than poodles.

A large % of russian Lada cars are lemons. A tiny % of Toyotas are lemons. Therefore we avoid buying Ladas in favour of Toyotas.

Get it?

So.................

Because a large% of black males rape, mug, stick-up and kill and a much much smaller % of whites   (                   "                     ), we are more cautious of blacks than whites.

Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 28, 2008, 06:32:52 PM
With western cities and transit systems full of raping muSSlims and blacks a lot of women feel safer in sturdy pants than a dress or skirt.
Newman, we have argued about this before. There are white rapists also and a lot don't seek out women wearing certain types of clothing... in the end rape isn't about what you have on, it's about an animal's power over you. Little girls are raped or molested every day, do you think it's because of the clothes they have on?

***ANYONE who has ever raped should not only be cut out from the rest of society but should have something 'cut off' in the process.

1/ I'm not saying clothes make any difference to a rapist. They'll go for a woman in a power suit just as quick as one in a mini skirt. I'm just saying some women feel more secure in jeans because access to their privates is harder for a would-be attacker.

2/ Do I have to explain statistics to you for the 100th time? There are far more balack rapists per capita than white as you well know. In europe the tiny (5%) muSSlim population account for over 50% of all rapes. I imagine the blacks of the USA have a similar showing in the rape statistics relative to there overall % of population.
I don't care, really because in reality, anyone who rapes is a threat to females and males everywhere. My point is that there are whites in the fold also who rape. I'm not going out looking for 5% of Muslim men to rape me, I'm looking out for ANY man who'd try.

You've missed the point as usual.

A large % of pitbulls bite. A small % of poodles bite. Therefore we are more concerned about pitbulls than poodles.

A large % of russian Lada cars are lemons. A tiny % of Toyotas are lemons. Therefore we avoid buying Ladas in favour of Toyotas.

Get it?

So.................

Because a large% of black males rape, mug, stick-up and kill and a much much smaller % of whites   (                   "                     ), we are more cautious of blacks than whites.

This is the 500th time I (along with Ze'ev, Bullcat and others) have had to explain this concept to you. Why does it not sink in?
You and your analogies...like I said, I'm not going out looking for black men or muslim men to rape me or my girls. I'm safeguarding them and teaching them to fear ANY stranger who may have thoughts of hurting them. Percentages aren't on my mind at this time. As soon as I start thinking of which percentage of Muslims will rape me, a black man will try. As soon as I start thinking of which percentage of black or white men will rape me, a Muslim will try. I just choose to be leary of people I get bad vibes from..not necessarily someone of a certain race.

You're avoiding the issue.

Why did you say .......
Quote
There are white rapists also
?

What point were you trying to make?
Because you never bring up white rapists when we have these discussions. NEVER. You make it seem as though they don't exist. Give every evil rapist equal bashing.

That's like saying somebody complains about unreliable De Loreans but doesn't mention unreliable Toyotas. There's a reason.............. PROPORTIONALITY.

I repeat (and I'll keep repeating it 'til it sinks in):
Quote
A large % of pitbulls bite. A small % of poodles bite. Therefore we are more concerned about pitbulls than poodles.

A large % of russian Lada cars are lemons. A tiny % of Toyotas are lemons. Therefore we avoid buying Ladas in favour of Toyotas.

Get it?

So.................

Because a large% of black males rape, mug, stick-up and kill and a much much smaller % of whites   (                   "                     ), we are more cautious of blacks than whites.


And I'll keep saying THIS until it sinks in (which it never will). You make it seem as though the white men who rape aren't doing anything wrong because black men are raping more than they are. When you neglect to even bring ALL evil rapists into question, you make it seem as though one group is better than the other.

I don't have an issue with the statistics, I have an issue with you not adding EVERYONE who rapes in the same bunch.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 28, 2008, 06:45:06 PM
With western cities and transit systems full of raping muSSlims and blacks a lot of women feel safer in sturdy pants than a dress or skirt.
Newman, we have argued about this before. There are white rapists also and a lot don't seek out women wearing certain types of clothing... in the end rape isn't about what you have on, it's about an animal's power over you. Little girls are raped or molested every day, do you think it's because of the clothes they have on?

***ANYONE who has ever raped should not only be cut out from the rest of society but should have something 'cut off' in the process.

1/ I'm not saying clothes make any difference to a rapist. They'll go for a woman in a power suit just as quick as one in a mini skirt. I'm just saying some women feel more secure in jeans because access to their privates is harder for a would-be attacker.

2/ Do I have to explain statistics to you for the 100th time? There are far more balack rapists per capita than white as you well know. In europe the tiny (5%) muSSlim population account for over 50% of all rapes. I imagine the blacks of the USA have a similar showing in the rape statistics relative to there overall % of population.
I don't care, really because in reality, anyone who rapes is a threat to females and males everywhere. My point is that there are whites in the fold also who rape. I'm not going out looking for 5% of Muslim men to rape me, I'm looking out for ANY man who'd try.

You've missed the point as usual.

A large % of pitbulls bite. A small % of poodles bite. Therefore we are more concerned about pitbulls than poodles.

A large % of russian Lada cars are lemons. A tiny % of Toyotas are lemons. Therefore we avoid buying Ladas in favour of Toyotas.

Get it?

So.................

Because a large% of black males rape, mug, stick-up and kill and a much much smaller % of whites   (                   "                     ), we are more cautious of blacks than whites.

This is the 500th time I (along with Ze'ev, Bullcat and others) have had to explain this concept to you. Why does it not sink in?
You and your analogies...like I said, I'm not going out looking for black men or muslim men to rape me or my girls. I'm safeguarding them and teaching them to fear ANY stranger who may have thoughts of hurting them. Percentages aren't on my mind at this time. As soon as I start thinking of which percentage of Muslims will rape me, a black man will try. As soon as I start thinking of which percentage of black or white men will rape me, a Muslim will try. I just choose to be leary of people I get bad vibes from..not necessarily someone of a certain race.

You're avoiding the issue.

Why did you say .......
Quote
There are white rapists also
?

What point were you trying to make?
Because you never bring up white rapists when we have these discussions. NEVER. You make it seem as though they don't exist. Give every evil rapist equal bashing.

That's like saying somebody complains about unreliable De Loreans but doesn't mention unreliable Toyotas. There's a reason.............. PROPORTIONALITY.

I repeat (and I'll keep repeating it 'til it sinks in):
Quote
A large % of pitbulls bite. A small % of poodles bite. Therefore we are more concerned about pitbulls than poodles.

A large % of russian Lada cars are lemons. A tiny % of Toyotas are lemons. Therefore we avoid buying Ladas in favour of Toyotas.

Get it?

So.................

Because a large% of black males rape, mug, stick-up and kill and a much much smaller % of whites   (                   "                     ), we are more cautious of blacks than whites.


And I'll keep saying THIS until it sinks in (which it never will). You make it seem as though the white men who rape aren't doing anything wrong because black men are raping more than they are. When you neglect to even bring ALL evil rapists into question, you make it seem as though one group is better than the other.

I don't have an issue with the statistics, I have an issue with you not adding EVERYONE who rapes in the same bunch.

That's an invention.

I NEVER said whites who rape are doing nothing wrong. I just don't mention them because there are not enough in % terms to worry about as far as generalisations about ethnicity go.

That's why jesse jackson was releved to see white kids behind him and not black ones. Now, I'm sure jesse would tell you there are bad white kids, too. But HE understands the concept of proportionality.



Get it now?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on January 28, 2008, 06:52:00 PM
Well I don't know how I can explain it any more ways, the Halacha is what the Halacha is.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: jdl4ever on January 28, 2008, 07:00:40 PM
Rabbis are not allowed to make any new Rabbinical decrees in our time (with rare exceptions like the Gadol Hador making one accepted by most of Israel) since there is no Sanhedrin.  Just about all Rabbincal decrees ever made are recorded in the Talmud.  Therefore, there is no "Rabbinical Decree" ever made specifically against wearing pants anywhere in the Talmud.  I don't know who made this nonsense up.  The only reason why it used to be forbidden was that it used to be a male's only form of clothing and this is a Torah prohibition.  Nowadays I see no logic why pants should not be allowed as more women wear pants than skirts in many areas.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 28, 2008, 07:04:29 PM
Rabbis are not allowed to make any new Rabbinical decrees in our time (with rare exceptions like the Gadol Hador making one accepted by most of Israel) since there is no Sanhedrin.  Just about all Rabbincal decrees ever made are recorded in the Talmud.  Therefore, there is no "Rabbinical Decree" ever made specifically against wearing pants anywhere in the Talmud.  I don't know who made this nonsense up.  The only reason why it used to be forbidden was that it used to be a male's only form of clothing and this is a Torah prohibition.  Nowadays I see no logic why pants should not be allowed as more women wear pants than skirts in many areas.

Yes.

African men wear long 'dresses', so why aren't they banned as 'mens clothing'.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on January 28, 2008, 07:13:11 PM
Rabbis are not allowed to make any new Rabbinical decrees in our time (with rare exceptions like the Gadol Hador making one accepted by most of Israel) since there is no Sanhedrin.  Just about all Rabbincal decrees ever made are recorded in the Talmud.  Therefore, there is no "Rabbinical Decree" ever made specifically against wearing pants anywhere in the Talmud.  I don't know who made this nonsense up.  The only reason why it used to be forbidden was that it used to be a male's only form of clothing and this is a Torah prohibition.  Nowadays I see no logic why pants should not be allowed as more women wear pants than skirts in many areas.
Yes.

African men wear long 'dresses', so why aren't they banned as 'mens clothing'.
And this custom is widely accepted?  ::)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 28, 2008, 07:20:14 PM
Rabbis are not allowed to make any new Rabbinical decrees in our time (with rare exceptions like the Gadol Hador making one accepted by most of Israel) since there is no Sanhedrin.  Just about all Rabbincal decrees ever made are recorded in the Talmud.  Therefore, there is no "Rabbinical Decree" ever made specifically against wearing pants anywhere in the Talmud.  I don't know who made this nonsense up.  The only reason why it used to be forbidden was that it used to be a male's only form of clothing and this is a Torah prohibition.  Nowadays I see no logic why pants should not be allowed as more women wear pants than skirts in many areas.
Yes.

African men wear long 'dresses', so why aren't they banned as 'mens clothing'.
And this custom is widely accepted?  ::)

By hundreds of millions of africans and Indians, yes.

In Scottland men wear kilts.

The point is; who is to say what constitutes 'mens' clothing and in what country does the Rabbinical ruling apply?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on January 28, 2008, 07:25:43 PM
Rabbis are not allowed to make any new Rabbinical decrees in our time (with rare exceptions like the Gadol Hador making one accepted by most of Israel) since there is no Sanhedrin.  Just about all Rabbincal decrees ever made are recorded in the Talmud.  Therefore, there is no "Rabbinical Decree" ever made specifically against wearing pants anywhere in the Talmud.  I don't know who made this nonsense up.  The only reason why it used to be forbidden was that it used to be a male's only form of clothing and this is a Torah prohibition.  Nowadays I see no logic why pants should not be allowed as more women wear pants than skirts in many areas.
Yes.

African men wear long 'dresses', so why aren't they banned as 'mens clothing'.
And this custom is widely accepted?  ::)

By hundreds of millions of africans and Indians, yes.

In Scottland men wear kilts.

The point is; who is to say what constitutes 'mens' clothing and in what country does the Rabbinical ruling apply?
The Rabbis are to say what constitutes men's clothing, and you'd have to ask one of them if it applies in such countries (even though said garments are usually very different from skirts).
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on January 28, 2008, 07:31:27 PM
Rabbis are not allowed to make any new Rabbinical decrees in our time (with rare exceptions like the Gadol Hador making one accepted by most of Israel) since there is no Sanhedrin.  Just about all Rabbincal decrees ever made are recorded in the Talmud.  Therefore, there is no "Rabbinical Decree" ever made specifically against wearing pants anywhere in the Talmud.  I don't know who made this nonsense up.  The only reason why it used to be forbidden was that it used to be a male's only form of clothing and this is a Torah prohibition.  Nowadays I see no logic why pants should not be allowed as more women wear pants than skirts in many areas.
Yes.

African men wear long 'dresses', so why aren't they banned as 'mens clothing'.
And this custom is widely accepted?  ::)

By hundreds of millions of africans and Indians, yes.

In Scottland men wear kilts.

The point is; who is to say what constitutes 'mens' clothing and in what country does the Rabbinical ruling apply?
The Rabbis are to say what constitutes men's clothing, and you'd have to ask one of them if it applies in such countries (even though said garments are usually very different from skirts).

They are only as different from skirts as womens slacks are from male trousers.

I wonder if Jewesses are obliged to wear pants in a country where men wear skirt-type garments.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on January 28, 2008, 07:34:30 PM
Rabbis are not allowed to make any new Rabbinical decrees in our time (with rare exceptions like the Gadol Hador making one accepted by most of Israel) since there is no Sanhedrin.  Just about all Rabbincal decrees ever made are recorded in the Talmud.  Therefore, there is no "Rabbinical Decree" ever made specifically against wearing pants anywhere in the Talmud.  I don't know who made this nonsense up.  The only reason why it used to be forbidden was that it used to be a male's only form of clothing and this is a Torah prohibition.  Nowadays I see no logic why pants should not be allowed as more women wear pants than skirts in many areas.
Yes.

African men wear long 'dresses', so why aren't they banned as 'mens clothing'.
And this custom is widely accepted?  ::)

By hundreds of millions of africans and Indians, yes.

In Scottland men wear kilts.

The point is; who is to say what constitutes 'mens' clothing and in what country does the Rabbinical ruling apply?
The Rabbis are to say what constitutes men's clothing, and you'd have to ask one of them if it applies in such countries (even though said garments are usually very different from skirts).

They are only as different from skirts as womens slacks are from male trousers.

I wonder if Jewesses are obliged to wear pants in a country where men wear skirt-type garments.
I highly doubt it, because there's still the Tznius issue.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on January 28, 2008, 07:51:34 PM
Re:  "...The point is; who is to say what constitutes 'mens' clothing...?"

Oh!  That's an easy one!

Consult Mr. Sheldon Lapidus, General Proprietor of Sheldon & Sons, Haberdashery for Big and Tall Men, 55804 1/2 Flatbush Ave., Atlantic City, New Jersey!

He will have the definitive answers!
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on January 29, 2008, 07:06:05 AM
With western cities and transit systems full of raping muSSlims and blacks a lot of women feel safer in sturdy pants than a dress or skirt.
Newman, we have argued about this before. There are white rapists also and a lot don't seek out women wearing certain types of clothing... in the end rape isn't about what you have on, it's about an animal's power over you. Little girls are raped or molested every day, do you think it's because of the clothes they have on?

***ANYONE who has ever raped should not only be cut out from the rest of society but should have something 'cut off' in the process.

1/ I'm not saying clothes make any difference to a rapist. They'll go for a woman in a power suit just as quick as one in a mini skirt. I'm just saying some women feel more secure in jeans because access to their privates is harder for a would-be attacker.

2/ Do I have to explain statistics to you for the 100th time? There are far more balack rapists per capita than white as you well know. In europe the tiny (5%) muSSlim population account for over 50% of all rapes. I imagine the blacks of the USA have a similar showing in the rape statistics relative to there overall % of population.
I don't care, really because in reality, anyone who rapes is a threat to females and males everywhere. My point is that there are whites in the fold also who rape. I'm not going out looking for 5% of Muslim men to rape me, I'm looking out for ANY man who'd try.

You've missed the point as usual.

A large % of pitbulls bite. A small % of poodles bite. Therefore we are more concerned about pitbulls than poodles.

A large % of russian Lada cars are lemons. A tiny % of Toyotas are lemons. Therefore we avoid buying Ladas in favour of Toyotas.

Get it?

So.................

Because a large% of black males rape, mug, stick-up and kill and a much much smaller % of whites   (                   "                     ), we are more cautious of blacks than whites.

This is the 500th time I (along with Ze'ev, Bullcat and others) have had to explain this concept to you. Why does it not sink in?
You and your analogies...like I said, I'm not going out looking for black men or muslim men to rape me or my girls. I'm safeguarding them and teaching them to fear ANY stranger who may have thoughts of hurting them. Percentages aren't on my mind at this time. As soon as I start thinking of which percentage of Muslims will rape me, a black man will try. As soon as I start thinking of which percentage of black or white men will rape me, a Muslim will try. I just choose to be leary of people I get bad vibes from..not necessarily someone of a certain race.

You're avoiding the issue.

Why did you say .......
Quote
There are white rapists also
?

What point were you trying to make?
Because you never bring up white rapists when we have these discussions. NEVER. You make it seem as though they don't exist. Give every evil rapist equal bashing.

That's like saying somebody complains about unreliable De Loreans but doesn't mention unreliable Toyotas. There's a reason.............. PROPORTIONALITY.

I repeat (and I'll keep repeating it 'til it sinks in):
Quote
A large % of pitbulls bite. A small % of poodles bite. Therefore we are more concerned about pitbulls than poodles.

A large % of russian Lada cars are lemons. A tiny % of Toyotas are lemons. Therefore we avoid buying Ladas in favour of Toyotas.

Get it?

So.................

Because a large% of black males rape, mug, stick-up and kill and a much much smaller % of whites   (                   "                     ), we are more cautious of blacks than whites.


And I'll keep saying THIS until it sinks in (which it never will). You make it seem as though the white men who rape aren't doing anything wrong because black men are raping more than they are. When you neglect to even bring ALL evil rapists into question, you make it seem as though one group is better than the other.

I don't have an issue with the statistics, I have an issue with you not adding EVERYONE who rapes in the same bunch.

That's an invention.

I NEVER said whites who rape are doing nothing wrong. I just don't mention them because there are not enough in % terms to worry about as far as generalisations about ethnicity go.

That's why jesse jackson was releved to see white kids behind him and not black ones. Now, I'm sure jesse would tell you there are bad white kids, too. But HE understands the concept of proportionality.



Get it now?

Here...If I'm driving in a predominantly black neighborhood, I'm goign to make sure my doors are locked...in a neighborhood that isn't like that...i admit, I might forget to check.

Either way, my car automatically locks itself whenever I'm driving.  I just double check when and if i'm in Newark NJ or Harlem...
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Just Erica on January 29, 2008, 06:40:45 PM
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.

I don't care what you wear. You are not Jewish, therefore the laws of modesty do not apply to you. The issue here isn't so much the Torah prohibition against crossdressing, it is the prohibition against immodesty on both men and women. Tight-fitting skirts or pants are also prohibited.

Second, I'm not threatened by women who wear pants. If you want to look like a man, go ahead. If that's the way you want to express your feminist liberation, by all means.
There is the sexist in you. I don't wear pants to look like a man. That's why women have slacks that cater to their body type. Pants aren't a MAN thing... everyone should have the right to wear pants if they want to. I look feminine in pants.

No, there's the gentleman in me that wants to see a woman take on a more feminine look and identity. In addition, I also do not want to see an outline of some of a woman's lower body parts. I despise short shorts and skirts and think they are sick. And it is not proper to go to a beach where the sexes are together, just like it's not proper to look at you, G-d have mercy, in your bra and underwear. I also practice a level of ahabath yisrael, loving your fellow Jew, in that I try my best not to look at the body of a Jewish girl that is dressed immodestly, for her sake in addition to mine.
It's improper to dress in a swimsuit while at the beach? What is proper attire for the beach in your opinion?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: kellymaureen on February 01, 2008, 12:56:45 AM
I think some men look GREAT in a kilt ;)
I had to wear one to school and I dont think I looked like a man
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 01, 2008, 01:09:41 AM
I think some men look GREAT in a kilt ;)
I had to wear one to school and I dont think I looked like a man

I am proud when we have the Highland games and I see the Scotsmen in Kilts.  O0

Its an honor to wear the tartan  ;)

And I can just imagine a wee bonny Scot being told to remove thy kilt  :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D

YOU WILL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!!!!  8;)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 01, 2008, 01:19:49 AM
I think some men look GREAT in a kilt ;)
I had to wear one to school and I dont think I looked like a man

I am proud when we have the Highland games and I see the Scotsmen in Kilts.  O0

Its an honor to wear the tartan  ;)

And I can just imagine a wee bonny Scot being told to remove thy kilt  :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D

YOU WILL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!!!!  8;)

I know. It ROCKS!
I also live a man in a kilt. They DO look GOOD as Kelly said.
Too bad I'm not Scotish or Irish. My ancestors come from England (we were the bad guys in Braveheart, lol )

 I thought about asking  this because some people were saying that women should not wear pants because we cannot dress like men. SO...I was curious if they would have an issue with us wearing kilts. Would it be forbidden for the sake of us not "dressing like men"? 
I can't wait to hear what people think about this. So curious!  :D

LOL true I want to see if they know there Scottish history  :::D :::D

The history of the Kilt  ^-^
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on February 01, 2008, 08:49:54 AM
a Jew should not be in a mixed beach.

This is so true. I hate the beach first of all, and I hate wearing bathing suits period. I just don't like it. If I go to the beach, I just wear regular clothes.
Even if I went to an all women beach or swimming pool, I still could not wear a bathing suit. I don't like how its all skin tight and shows legs and sometimes the back is exposed. Even if the only ones who would see me are other women it doesn't matter to me, because I'm in the open air, under the sky and it just doesn't feel right to be so exposed anywhere like that. But that's just me.
 And when you get out of the beach, you get all sandy. Ugh I don't like it.

----------------------------
I also just thought of something...people here were giving great responses on whether its ok for women to wear pants or not.
What about the other way around, when a man wears a Kilt. Its a cultural thing. So are women not allowed to wear a kilt then? To avoid dressing like the opposite sex?

What about when a man wears the long skirts...that are also a cultural thing like these men: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJlUjjRZ9c4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJlUjjRZ9c4&feature=related)
Would they be forbidden for women to wear for the sake of not dressing like men?
I'm curious and just thought about it.

Also, a kilt wearing Celtic (yey) man:
(http://vassifer.blogs.com/alexinnyc/images/2007/04/25/rtn_raconte04401.jpg)

Actually, I know that some (single) Orthodox women when they go to a public pool they go in with all of their clothes on...like a body suit but the suit is a skirt.  When I was in Isael this summer, at our hotel, the observant women would do that.

Certainly, it's a fence of modesty which is acceptable..

But getting wet like that in all that clothes is still pretty hot...can create more of an imagination for the man with what's underneat all that.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on February 01, 2008, 09:04:26 AM
I think some men look GREAT in a kilt ;)
I had to wear one to school and I dont think I looked like a man

I am proud when we have the Highland games and I see the Scotsmen in Kilts.  O0

Its an honor to wear the tartan  ;)

And I can just imagine a wee bonny Scot being told to remove thy kilt  :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D

YOU WILL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!!!!  8;)

I know. It ROCKS!
I also live a man in a kilt. They DO look GOOD as Kelly said.
Too bad I'm not Scotish or Irish. My ancestors come from England (we were the bad guys in Braveheart, lol )

 I thought about asking  this because some people were saying that women should not wear pants because we cannot dress like men. SO...I was curious if they would have an issue with us wearing kilts. Would it be forbidden for the sake of us not "dressing like men"? 
I can't wait to hear what people think about this. So curious!  :D

I think the Torah prohibition is that men and women should not cross dress...or dress in such a way that a man might take a nother woman for a man or vice versa...and like wise with women the same way.

In other words, it's not good to try to look like the opposite sex because it can create confusion.

And so the Rabbis built additional fences so that a man or woman is no where near being confused for the opposite sex.

With these fences we have to be careful of what the actual Torah reason is for a certain commandment and not make a new commandment out of it. That's just my two cents.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 01, 2008, 09:06:33 AM
I think some men look GREAT in a kilt ;)
I had to wear one to school and I dont think I looked like a man

I am proud when we have the Highland games and I see the Scotsmen in Kilts.  O0

Its an honor to wear the tartan  ;)

And I can just imagine a wee bonny Scot being told to remove thy kilt  :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D

YOU WILL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!!!!  8;)

I know. It ROCKS!
I also live a man in a kilt. They DO look GOOD as Kelly said.
Too bad I'm not Scotish or Irish. My ancestors come from England (we were the bad guys in Braveheart, lol )

 I thought about asking  this because some people were saying that women should not wear pants because we cannot dress like men. SO...I was curious if they would have an issue with us wearing kilts. Would it be forbidden for the sake of us not "dressing like men"? 
I can't wait to hear what people think about this. So curious!  :D

I think the Torah prohibition is that men and women should not cross dress...or dress in such a way that a man might take a nother woman for a man or vice versa...and like wise with women the same way.

In other words, it's not good to try to look like the opposite sex because it can create confusion.

And so the Rabbis built additional fences so that a man or woman is no where near being confused for the opposite sex.

With these fences we have to be careful of what the actual Torah reason is for a certain commandment and not make a new commandment out of it. That's just my two cents.

But you are aware the kilt is not a womans dress. It was solely a mans. So they are not dressing as a woman.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on February 01, 2008, 09:34:47 AM
I think some men look GREAT in a kilt ;)
I had to wear one to school and I dont think I looked like a man

I am proud when we have the Highland games and I see the Scotsmen in Kilts.  O0

Its an honor to wear the tartan  ;)

And I can just imagine a wee bonny Scot being told to remove thy kilt  :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D

YOU WILL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!!!!  8;)

I know. It ROCKS!
I also live a man in a kilt. They DO look GOOD as Kelly said.
Too bad I'm not Scotish or Irish. My ancestors come from England (we were the bad guys in Braveheart, lol )

 I thought about asking  this because some people were saying that women should not wear pants because we cannot dress like men. SO...I was curious if they would have an issue with us wearing kilts. Would it be forbidden for the sake of us not "dressing like men"? 
I can't wait to hear what people think about this. So curious!  :D

I think the Torah prohibition is that men and women should not cross dress...or dress in such a way that a man might take a nother woman for a man or vice versa...and like wise with women the same way.

In other words, it's not good to try to look like the opposite sex because it can create confusion.

And so the Rabbis built additional fences so that a man or woman is no where near being confused for the opposite sex.

With these fences we have to be careful of what the actual Torah reason is for a certain commandment and not make a new commandment out of it. That's just my two cents.

But you are aware the kilt is not a womans dress. It was solely a mans. So they are not dressing as a woman.

precisely.  In the scottish culture, this is men's clothing.  Nobody can mix this male celt with a woman.

But literal cross dressers..Men who wear dresses, wear wigs, stuff their boobs to appear as women..well, that's prohibited..
Or women who cut their hair really short, where a suit and a tie, put a mustache over their face, hide their chest...well that's prohibited..

And to build a fence around it, I belive the rabbis had to really extend it further out all the way to the point that men not wear anything that was female and that females not wear what is male, including pants so that niether would come close to even breaking the actual rule.

Somteimes it APPEARS to me that some very religious jews make the actual rabbinicial fence the commandment..without going straight to the bottom line of what Gd actually meant in the Torah.  i have no problem with fences if it is meant to keep those from coming close to the sin..that's the whole point of the fence..to keep one far away from screwing up.  However, it seems that some make the fence the actual rule from the Torah.

My take is that some get tempted more easily than others and therefore they need a fence that is 10 miles wide while others need a fence 100 yards wide.  Howver, everyone shoudl have a fence just to be safe.

Like being addicted to cigarettes and knowing it's bad to smoke.  Some are tempted to smoke by the smell of the cigarettes and therefore stay in another room to not smell it, while others are soooooooooooooo tempted, that they will not stay in the same building as someone smoking a cigarette (obviously that's an exagerration..however, I think you see my personal point of view)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 01, 2008, 09:48:10 AM
Fence sitters always give me the pip, but its up to them. BTW you are in fine form today, with lots of examples 

But since its 2am I say good night, and allow you to continue.  ;)

Oh and yeah the kilt is not a piece of clothing, it first was the blanket the soldiers used for bedding. Because they come from mainly the highlanders the needed two hands to battle the country side and then the enemy, and it was easier to wrap it about them instead of carrying it. Each part of a highlanders dress was to allow quick and easy travel.

Very Clan had its own pattern and colours, so they could tell each family from a distance.

William Wallis was famous for the Braveheart cry, because the enemy couldn't understand where these men had come from because no camps and been located days before. They believed the men rose from the land itself.

Aye I'm a wee bonney Lassie, well the other half of me anyway  :::D




Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on February 01, 2008, 09:55:35 AM
Fence sitters always give me the pip, but its up to them. BTW you are in fine form today, with lots of examples 

But since its 2am I say good night, and allow you to continue.  ;)

Oh and yeah the kilt is not a piece of clothing, it first was the blanket the soldiers used for bedding. Because they come from mainly the highlanders the needed two hands to battle the country side and then the enemy, and it was easier to wrap it about them instead of carrying it. Each part of a highlanders dress was to allow quick and easy travel.

Very Clan had its own pattern and colours, so they could tell each family from a distance.

William Wallis was famous for the Braveheart cry, because the enemy couldn't understand where these men had come from because no camps and been located days before. They believed the men rose from the land itself.

Aye I'm a wee bonney Lassie, well the other half of me anyway  :::D






interesting
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on February 01, 2008, 12:36:06 PM
I think some men look GREAT in a kilt ;)
I had to wear one to school and I dont think I looked like a man

I am proud when we have the Highland games and I see the Scotsmen in Kilts.  O0

Its an honor to wear the tartan  ;)

And I can just imagine a wee bonny Scot being told to remove thy kilt  :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D

YOU WILL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!!!!  8;)

I know. It ROCKS!
I also live a man in a kilt. They DO look GOOD as Kelly said.
Too bad I'm not Scotish or Irish. My ancestors come from England (we were the bad guys in Braveheart, lol )

 I thought about asking  this because some people were saying that women should not wear pants because we cannot dress like men. SO...I was curious if they would have an issue with us wearing kilts. Would it be forbidden for the sake of us not "dressing like men"? 
I can't wait to hear what people think about this. So curious!  :D

I think the Torah prohibition is that men and women should not cross dress...or dress in such a way that a man might take a nother woman for a man or vice versa...and like wise with women the same way.

In other words, it's not good to try to look like the opposite sex because it can create confusion.

And so the Rabbis built additional fences so that a man or woman is no where near being confused for the opposite sex.

With these fences we have to be careful of what the actual Torah reason is for a certain commandment and not make a new commandment out of it. That's just my two cents.

precisely.  In the scottish culture, this is men's clothing.  Nobody can mix this male celt with a woman.

But literal cross dressers..Men who wear dresses, wear wigs, stuff their boobs to appear as women..well, that's prohibited..
Or women who cut their hair really short, where a suit and a tie, put a mustache over their face, hide their chest...well that's prohibited..

And to build a fence around it, I belive the rabbis had to really extend it further out all the way to the point that men not wear anything that was female and that females not wear what is male, including pants so that niether would come close to even breaking the actual rule.

Somteimes it APPEARS to me that some very religious jews make the actual rabbinicial fence the commandment..without going straight to the bottom line of what Gd actually meant in the Torah.  i have no problem with fences if it is meant to keep those from coming close to the sin..that's the whole point of the fence..to keep one far away from screwing up.  However, it seems that some make the fence the actual rule from the Torah.

My take is that some get tempted more easily than others and therefore they need a fence that is 10 miles wide while others need a fence 100 yards wide.  Howver, everyone shoudl have a fence just to be safe.

Like being addicted to cigarettes and knowing it's bad to smoke.  Some are tempted to smoke by the smell of the cigarettes and therefore stay in another room to not smell it, while others are soooooooooooooo tempted, that they will not stay in the same building as someone smoking a cigarette (obviously that's an exagerration..however, I think you see my personal point of view)

You are a Love Doctor, not a Rabbi. Instead of speculative theorizing on the intent of the modesty laws, why do you ask someone to open up for you a Shulhan Aruch or a Beth Yosef and see for yourself what the source is for these prohibitions? That goes for everyone here as well.

I understand that your pro-crossdresser conserved "rabbi" is not a legit source, but I'm sure there is a Chabad or some orthodox synagogue available around you to answer these questions.

I wasn't speculating or theorizing modesty laws. I was merely describing the prohibition against cross dressing and that it can lead to confusion of one's sex. I think that passage about the prohibition of men wearing women's clothing is written in Leviticus. This isn't speculation. Any human being can read the tanach and say, "Ah so...that makes sense."

Now as far as modesty...there is a Torah rule on modesty..I agree entirely with that. Immodest-ware can lead certain men to become more tempted and do evil things.  Some rabbis feel that pants are immodest on a woman. If this is your rabbi, then do as he is telling you.  but dont' impose your orthodox chabad rabbi on me...he's a human being like every other rabbi on this earth.

And my rabbi is not  a pro-crossdresser conserved rabbi..watch your mouth before you spit hate like that! SHAME ON YOU!
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on February 01, 2008, 01:43:02 PM
What Jew would wear a kilt anyway?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on February 01, 2008, 01:46:51 PM
What Jew would wear a kilt anyway?

very few if any.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on February 01, 2008, 01:48:28 PM
What Jew would wear a kilt anyway?
very few if any.
So there ya go.  Problem solved...  ;)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on February 01, 2008, 01:52:01 PM
What Jew would wear a kilt anyway?
very few if any.
So there ya go.  Problem solved...  ;)

Precisely..But the transexuals out there...wow..they really look like women...very very frightening these evil people.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on February 01, 2008, 01:55:03 PM
What Jew would wear a kilt anyway?

Yea Celtic converts! (like 5)

Welcome to the club!  We need some new genes added to our gene pool! ;)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on February 03, 2008, 03:01:43 AM
I think some men look GREAT in a kilt ;)
I had to wear one to school and I dont think I looked like a man

I am proud when we have the Highland games and I see the Scotsmen in Kilts.  O0

Its an honor to wear the tartan  ;)

And I can just imagine a wee bonny Scot being told to remove thy kilt  :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D

YOU WILL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!!!!  8;)

I know. It ROCKS!
I also live a man in a kilt. They DO look GOOD as Kelly said.
Too bad I'm not Scotish or Irish. My ancestors come from England (we were the bad guys in Braveheart, lol )

 I thought about asking  this because some people were saying that women should not wear pants because we cannot dress like men. SO...I was curious if they would have an issue with us wearing kilts. Would it be forbidden for the sake of us not "dressing like men"? 
I can't wait to hear what people think about this. So curious!  :D

I think the Torah prohibition is that men and women should not cross dress...or dress in such a way that a man might take a nother woman for a man or vice versa...and like wise with women the same way.

In other words, it's not good to try to look like the opposite sex because it can create confusion.

And so the Rabbis built additional fences so that a man or woman is no where near being confused for the opposite sex.

With these fences we have to be careful of what the actual Torah reason is for a certain commandment and not make a new commandment out of it. That's just my two cents.

precisely.  In the scottish culture, this is men's clothing.  Nobody can mix this male celt with a woman.

But literal cross dressers..Men who wear dresses, wear wigs, stuff their boobs to appear as women..well, that's prohibited..
Or women who cut their hair really short, where a suit and a tie, put a mustache over their face, hide their chest...well that's prohibited..

And to build a fence around it, I belive the rabbis had to really extend it further out all the way to the point that men not wear anything that was female and that females not wear what is male, including pants so that niether would come close to even breaking the actual rule.

Somteimes it APPEARS to me that some very religious jews make the actual rabbinicial fence the commandment..without going straight to the bottom line of what Gd actually meant in the Torah.  i have no problem with fences if it is meant to keep those from coming close to the sin..that's the whole point of the fence..to keep one far away from screwing up.  However, it seems that some make the fence the actual rule from the Torah.

My take is that some get tempted more easily than others and therefore they need a fence that is 10 miles wide while others need a fence 100 yards wide.  Howver, everyone shoudl have a fence just to be safe.

Like being addicted to cigarettes and knowing it's bad to smoke.  Some are tempted to smoke by the smell of the cigarettes and therefore stay in another room to not smell it, while others are soooooooooooooo tempted, that they will not stay in the same building as someone smoking a cigarette (obviously that's an exagerration..however, I think you see my personal point of view)

You are a Love Doctor, not a Rabbi. Instead of speculative theorizing on the intent of the modesty laws, why do you ask someone to open up for you a Shulhan Aruch or a Beth Yosef and see for yourself what the source is for these prohibitions? That goes for everyone here as well.

I understand that your pro-crossdresser conserved "rabbi" is not a legit source, but I'm sure there is a Chabad or some orthodox synagogue available around you to answer these questions.

I wasn't speculating or theorizing modesty laws. I was merely describing the prohibition against cross dressing and that it can lead to confusion of one's sex. I think that passage about the prohibition of men wearing women's clothing is written in Leviticus. This isn't speculation. Any human being can read the tanach and say, "Ah so...that makes sense."

Now as far as modesty...there is a Torah rule on modesty..I agree entirely with that. Immodest-ware can lead certain men to become more tempted and do evil things.  Some rabbis feel that pants are immodest on a woman. If this is your rabbi, then do as he is telling you.  but dont' impose your orthodox chabad rabbi on me...he's a human being like every other rabbi on this earth.

And my rabbi is not  a pro-crossdresser conserved rabbi..watch your mouth before you spit hate like that! SHAME ON YOU!

The problem is that, like others here, it seems from your posts that are trying to construe the crossdressing prohibitions to somehow be related to the entirely separate modesty laws, such as the avoidance of wearing pants.

As far as your rabbi goes, I would never say such a thing without basis:

and so he want on to say we shoudln't turn away Jews..we shoudl accept them (as if Orthodox Jews turned away men who were admittedly homosexual which is absolutely false!!!)  and he went off on a tangent how the hebrew for abomination can also mean to be lead astray..etc etc.  and that he woudl be glad to marry two jewish men and allow them to adopt children etc etc... just went off on the whole thing...

Someone who says this on Yom Kippur really has issues.

Cross dressing is not related to modesty laws...they are two separate things...
I was referring to the women wearing pants as what i believed was the cross dressing rule and not the modesty rule...
You guys did shed some light on the modesty rule. I cannot come between you guys and this fence..Some people are tempted by looking at women's bodies and pants might show more to you guys..It doesn't to me, but that's fine.
However as cross dressing and pants on women?  once again, I will not dare come between your traditions on that and tell you that you are wrong. I agree that men shoudl only wear men's clothes and women, women's clothes...but it's the fine line...some need a certain type of fence. That's all.

As far as my rabbi...My concept of thinking doesn't come from this particular rabbi, but the one I had before him does.  And he has an interesting way of approaching Judaism that is different from many Orthodox Jews..Very thought provoking too..Not just going out and saying, "oh Rabbi so and so said this on this parsha on this chapter on this page and therefore..."  I think it's a good thing to have that in one's education. HOwever, as Jews, we have to be careful not think too much like robots, but sometimes questions what we are reading and learning and seeing everything in perspective.

Now with that current Rabbi on Yom Kippur...I believe he is very mistaken with what he is saying and being misleading.  Till this day, I want to go up to him and say, "what was your point? Are you trying to change the Torah because of current times? because, you konw, we aren't supposed to do that.  Maybe perhaps it's mistaken with what you said.  That in reality times have gotten worse and we need to return to Torah."
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 03, 2008, 03:20:31 AM
Some things I hate about Braveheart:
-mel gibson the Jew  hater was in it
-Men were not wearing the right costumes
Quote
"Tartan and such checkered cloths of this type did not begin to appear until 16th century, and were not worn in battle until the Battle of Culloden in the 1700s. It would not have been worn in the 13th century."
-They didn't wear blue paint either at that time
AND:
-It made us English look bad  >:(

I've seen women wear kilts too. Not the entire kilt regalia (not the sporran etc)

Since the kilt was used by men, it should be forbidden for women? To avoid dressing like a man and causing "confusion"?

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Highland_Dance_002.jpg/200px-Highland_Dance_002.jpg)

The highland women travelled with their men and the armys, same principal applies.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on February 03, 2008, 03:27:08 AM
Some things I hate about Braveheart:
-mel gibson the Jew  hater was in it
-Men were not wearing the right costumes
Quote
"Tartan and such checkered cloths of this type did not begin to appear until 16th century, and were not worn in battle until the Battle of Culloden in the 1700s. It would not have been worn in the 13th century."
-They didn't wear blue paint either at that time
AND:
-It made us English look bad  >:(

I've seen women wear kilts too. Not the entire kilt regalia (not the sporran etc)

Since the kilt was used by men, it should be forbidden for women? To avoid dressing like a man and causing "confusion"?

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Highland_Dance_002.jpg/200px-Highland_Dance_002.jpg)

The highland women travelled with their men and the armys, same principal applies.

Don't post any pics of scottsmen tossing their kaibers whatever you do!  :o
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 03, 2008, 04:13:12 AM
How can you say no to this, cuteness factor is out of this world.  8;)

(http://www.highlandxpress.com/BABY/AIDEN2.jpg)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on February 03, 2008, 04:22:15 AM
OH! That's such a cute picture!

I soo wish I were Scottish!

Can you make up your mind which culture you wish to adopt, or is it..... "anything but the one i've got will do"?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 03, 2008, 06:41:52 AM
OH! That's such a cute picture!

I soo wish I were Scottish!

LOL I am Half Scot Half Italian, two strong fiery stubborn races, and a Jew to boot and proud of it  O0

Just never eat haggis  :-\ :-\ :-\

But oat cakes Yummy  O0
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on February 03, 2008, 06:54:50 AM
OH! That's such a cute picture!

I soo wish I were Scottish!

LOL I am Half Scot Half Italian, two strong fiery stubborn races, and a Jew to boot and proud of it  O0

Just never eat haggis  :-\ :-\ :-\

But oat cakes Yummy  O0

Admit it, Skip'..............

You wanna be like Mills and be a jap......or a mexican..........or was it marry one?

Ah, I forget now.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 03, 2008, 07:24:00 AM
OH! That's such a cute picture!

I soo wish I were Scottish!

LOL I am Half Scot Half Italian, two strong fiery stubborn races, and a Jew to boot and proud of it  O0

Just never eat haggis  :-\ :-\ :-\

But oat cakes Yummy  O0

Admit it, Skip'..............

You wanna be like Mills and be a jap......or a mexican..........or was it marry one?

Ah, I forget now.

Nope I want my hunky Yankeeboy   :::D :::D
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on February 03, 2008, 08:18:04 AM


You wanna be like Mills and be a jap......or a mexican..........or was it marry one?

Ah, I forget now.

Ha ha, so did you get to answer my last question?
Was it ALL Mexicans or just 99.9% ?

Who cares and what's the difference?

Does anyone care if all the africans have AIDS or just 99.9%?

BTW, I think it was in another thread.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Ambiorix on February 03, 2008, 10:19:28 AM
In my opinion women have the right the wear pants, yes.

I do like women, that wear skirts. They are very rare here.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on February 06, 2008, 11:03:23 AM
Cross dressing is not related to modesty laws...they are two separate things...
I was referring to the women wearing pants as what i believed was the cross dressing rule and not the modesty rule...
You guys did shed some light on the modesty rule. I cannot come between you guys and this fence..Some people are tempted by looking at women's bodies and pants might show more to you guys..It doesn't to me, but that's fine.
However as cross dressing and pants on women?  once again, I will not dare come between your traditions on that and tell you that you are wrong. I agree that men shoudl only wear men's clothes and women, women's clothes...but it's the fine line...some need a certain type of fence. That's all.

Pants is under the modesty laws, not the crossdressing laws.


Thank you..i didn't know that..I thought it was cross dressing laws..Ok...so modesty, fine...some communities need that as a rule, but it's not for all communities.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on February 06, 2008, 03:27:29 PM
Cross dressing is not related to modesty laws...they are two separate things...
I was referring to the women wearing pants as what i believed was the cross dressing rule and not the modesty rule...
You guys did shed some light on the modesty rule. I cannot come between you guys and this fence..Some people are tempted by looking at women's bodies and pants might show more to you guys..It doesn't to me, but that's fine.
However as cross dressing and pants on women?  once again, I will not dare come between your traditions on that and tell you that you are wrong. I agree that men shoudl only wear men's clothes and women, women's clothes...but it's the fine line...some need a certain type of fence. That's all.
Pants is under the modesty laws, not the crossdressing laws.
Thank you..i didn't know that..I thought it was cross dressing laws..Ok...so modesty, fine...some communities need that as a rule, but it's not for all communities.
It's really a problem with both.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Dr. Dan on February 06, 2008, 09:06:32 PM
Cross dressing is not related to modesty laws...they are two separate things...
I was referring to the women wearing pants as what i believed was the cross dressing rule and not the modesty rule...
You guys did shed some light on the modesty rule. I cannot come between you guys and this fence..Some people are tempted by looking at women's bodies and pants might show more to you guys..It doesn't to me, but that's fine.
However as cross dressing and pants on women?  once again, I will not dare come between your traditions on that and tell you that you are wrong. I agree that men shoudl only wear men's clothes and women, women's clothes...but it's the fine line...some need a certain type of fence. That's all.
Pants is under the modesty laws, not the crossdressing laws.
Thank you..i didn't know that..I thought it was cross dressing laws..Ok...so modesty, fine...some communities need that as a rule, but it's not for all communities.
It's really a problem with both.

What's probably a problem with both?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 06, 2008, 09:09:32 PM
Cross dressing is not related to modesty laws...they are two separate things...
I was referring to the women wearing pants as what i believed was the cross dressing rule and not the modesty rule...
You guys did shed some light on the modesty rule. I cannot come between you guys and this fence..Some people are tempted by looking at women's bodies and pants might show more to you guys..It doesn't to me, but that's fine.
However as cross dressing and pants on women?  once again, I will not dare come between your traditions on that and tell you that you are wrong. I agree that men shoudl only wear men's clothes and women, women's clothes...but it's the fine line...some need a certain type of fence. That's all.
Pants is under the modesty laws, not the crossdressing laws.
Thank you..i didn't know that..I thought it was cross dressing laws..Ok...so modesty, fine...some communities need that as a rule, but it's not for all communities.
It's really a problem with both.

I don't as long as they guys don't wear my clothes I am happy  :::D
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Ultra Requete on February 07, 2008, 06:37:20 AM
Cross dressing is not related to modesty laws...they are two separate things...
I was referring to the women wearing pants as what i believed was the cross dressing rule and not the modesty rule...
You guys did shed some light on the modesty rule. I cannot come between you guys and this fence..Some people are tempted by looking at women's bodies and pants might show more to you guys..It doesn't to me, but that's fine.
However as cross dressing and pants on women?  once again, I will not dare come between your traditions on that and tell you that you are wrong. I agree that men shoudl only wear men's clothes and women, women's clothes...but it's the fine line...some need a certain type of fence. That's all.
Pants is under the modesty laws, not the crossdressing laws.
Thank you..i didn't know that..I thought it was cross dressing laws..Ok...so modesty, fine...some communities need that as a rule, but it's not for all communities.
It's really a problem with both.

I don't as long as they guys don't wear my clothes I am happy  :::D

 :::D :::D :::D O0
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Lisa on February 09, 2008, 09:18:13 PM
That little Flocke polar bear cub is absolutely precious!
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 20, 2008, 08:46:49 AM
While talking to my son, I came up with why women can were pants. Because if you are riding a motorbike, its not a good idea to do it in a skirt.  :::D
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: newman on February 20, 2008, 08:58:44 AM
While talking to my son, I came up with why women can were pants. Because if you are riding a motorbike, its not a good idea to do it in a skirt.  :::D

Or climbing ladders or hiking or any number of things.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 20, 2008, 09:03:09 AM
While talking to my son, I came up with why women can were pants. Because if you are riding a motorbike, its not a good idea to do it in a skirt.  :::D

Or climbing ladders or hiking or any number of things.

Bingo!  ^-^
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on February 20, 2008, 03:47:08 PM
While talking to my son, I came up with why women can were pants. Because if you are riding a motorbike, its not a good idea to do it in a skirt.  :::D
So then don't ride a motorbike...
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 20, 2008, 06:51:18 PM
While talking to my son, I came up with why women can were pants. Because if you are riding a motorbike, its not a good idea to do it in a skirt.  :::D
So then don't ride a motorbike...

I love my motorbike, where does it state women can't ride one  ::) ::)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on February 20, 2008, 09:04:49 PM
While talking to my son, I came up with why women can were pants. Because if you are riding a motorbike, its not a good idea to do it in a skirt.  :::D
So then don't ride a motorbike...
I love my motorbike, where does it state women can't ride one  ::) ::)
Nowhere.  But they still can't ride on in pants...
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 20, 2008, 09:10:38 PM
While talking to my son, I came up with why women can were pants. Because if you are riding a motorbike, its not a good idea to do it in a skirt.  :::D
So then don't ride a motorbike...
I love my motorbike, where does it state women can't ride one  ::) ::)
Nowhere.  But they still can't ride on in pants...
Ever tried it in a skirt  :-\ Its a little breezy.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on February 20, 2008, 09:16:54 PM
While talking to my son, I came up with why women can were pants. Because if you are riding a motorbike, its not a good idea to do it in a skirt.  :::D
So then don't ride a motorbike...
I love my motorbike, where does it state women can't ride one  ::) ::)
Nowhere.  But they still can't ride on in pants...
Ever tried it in a skirt  :-\ Its a little breezy.
Well no, I've never tried wearing a skirt, let alone while riding a motorcycle.  That would be just weird...

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 20, 2008, 09:32:01 PM
While talking to my son, I came up with why women can were pants. Because if you are riding a motorbike, its not a good idea to do it in a skirt.  :::D
So then don't ride a motorbike...
I love my motorbike, where does it state women can't ride one  ::) ::)
Nowhere.  But they still can't ride on in pants...
Ever tried it in a skirt  :-\ Its a little breezy.
Well no, I've never tried wearing a skirt, let alone while riding a motorcycle.  That would be just weird...

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?

For safety reason you wear leathers, because if you crash you really need good leathers to stop yourself from being skinned. And Also because of the length of the skirt it can get into the workings of the engine and wheels when riding.

I have what is called a cruiser, which is built for distance. 

And anything with bikes is its safety first not fashion.

example of a cruiser

(http://www.moccsplace.com/images/studs/stud2.jpg)

And these are leathers (mine are all black they are not very sexy you look like a stuffed banana lol)

(http://img.alibaba.com/photo/11304458/Motor_Bike_Suit.jpg)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on February 20, 2008, 10:53:12 PM
While talking to my son, I came up with why women can were pants. Because if you are riding a motorbike, its not a good idea to do it in a skirt.  :::D
So then don't ride a motorbike...
I love my motorbike, where does it state women can't ride one  ::) ::)
Nowhere.  But they still can't ride on in pants...
Ever tried it in a skirt  :-\ Its a little breezy.
Well no, I've never tried wearing a skirt, let alone while riding a motorcycle.  That would be just weird...

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
For safety reason you wear leathers, because if you crash you really need good leathers to stop yourself from being skinned. And Also because of the length of the skirt it can get into the workings of the engine and wheels when riding.

I have what is called a cruiser, which is built for distance. 

And anything with bikes is its safety first not fashion.
Modesty and fashion are two very different things, Skippy.

It is an interesting question though.  Perhaps, beacuase there's not anyone else on the motorcycle with you, it would be permitted, only while you're riding the motorcycle of course...
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 20, 2008, 10:56:09 PM
While talking to my son, I came up with why women can were pants. Because if you are riding a motorbike, its not a good idea to do it in a skirt.  :::D
So then don't ride a motorbike...
I love my motorbike, where does it state women can't ride one  ::) ::)
Nowhere.  But they still can't ride on in pants...
Ever tried it in a skirt  :-\ Its a little breezy.
Well no, I've never tried wearing a skirt, let alone while riding a motorcycle.  That would be just weird...

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
For safety reason you wear leathers, because if you crash you really need good leathers to stop yourself from being skinned. And Also because of the length of the skirt it can get into the workings of the engine and wheels when riding.

I have what is called a cruiser, which is built for distance. 

And anything with bikes is its safety first not fashion.
Modesty and fashion are two very different things, Skippy.

It is an interesting question though.  Perhaps, beacuase there's not anyone else on the motorcycle with you, it would be permitted, only while you're riding the motorcycle of course...


Yes I never thought about it before.............. :-\ Because if you take a male passenger they have to hang on to you.  ???

I will ask Chaim  :)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: OdKahaneChai on February 20, 2008, 11:02:10 PM
While talking to my son, I came up with why women can were pants. Because if you are riding a motorbike, its not a good idea to do it in a skirt.  :::D
So then don't ride a motorbike...
I love my motorbike, where does it state women can't ride one  ::) ::)
Nowhere.  But they still can't ride on in pants...
Ever tried it in a skirt  :-\ Its a little breezy.
Well no, I've never tried wearing a skirt, let alone while riding a motorcycle.  That would be just weird...

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
For safety reason you wear leathers, because if you crash you really need good leathers to stop yourself from being skinned. And Also because of the length of the skirt it can get into the workings of the engine and wheels when riding.

I have what is called a cruiser, which is built for distance. 

And anything with bikes is its safety first not fashion.
Modesty and fashion are two very different things, Skippy.

It is an interesting question though.  Perhaps, beacuase there's not anyone else on the motorcycle with you, it would be permitted, only while you're riding the motorcycle of course...
Yes I never thought about it before.............. :-\ Because if you take a male passenger they have to hang on to you.  ???
Well that is a problem in and of if itself (if he's not in your immediate family).

And just remember that Chaim is not a Posek.  I would ask a Rabbi.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 20, 2008, 11:05:24 PM
While talking to my son, I came up with why women can were pants. Because if you are riding a motorbike, its not a good idea to do it in a skirt.  :::D
So then don't ride a motorbike...
I love my motorbike, where does it state women can't ride one  ::) ::)
Nowhere.  But they still can't ride on in pants...
Ever tried it in a skirt  :-\ Its a little breezy.
Well no, I've never tried wearing a skirt, let alone while riding a motorcycle.  That would be just weird...

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
For safety reason you wear leathers, because if you crash you really need good leathers to stop yourself from being skinned. And Also because of the length of the skirt it can get into the workings of the engine and wheels when riding.

I have what is called a cruiser, which is built for distance. 

And anything with bikes is its safety first not fashion.
Modesty and fashion are two very different things, Skippy.

It is an interesting question though.  Perhaps, beacuase there's not anyone else on the motorcycle with you, it would be permitted, only while you're riding the motorcycle of course...
Yes I never thought about it before.............. :-\ Because if you take a male passenger they have to hang on to you.  ???
Well that is a problem in and of if itself (if he's not in your immediate family).

And just remember that Chaim is not a Posek.  I would ask a Rabbi.

Well true, but I like Chaim's answers  ;)

Yes I will ask Lubab too   :)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Sarah on February 21, 2008, 11:50:12 AM
I once rode a horse with a skirt on.  :)
I was offered the oppurtunity and couldn't say no, so I improvised by half kneeling on the saddle in some odd position.....and it worked out. If you tuck your skirt in around your legs it won't fly up.......this worked when i used to ride a bike with a skirt on.  :D
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Tina Greco - Melbourne on February 21, 2008, 04:45:39 PM
I once rode a horse with a skirt on.  :)
I was offered the oppurtunity and couldn't say no, so I improvised by half kneeling on the saddle in some odd position.....and it worked out. If you tuck your skirt in around your legs it won't fly up.......this worked when i used to ride a bike with a skirt on.  :D

 I used to ride horses when I was younger in skirts, but they very flowing like Gypsy skirts. Full saddle and side saddle  :::D
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Yonatan777 on March 20, 2008, 02:32:23 AM
Is it ok for a man to wear a dress??  Maybe if I am a Scot.. OOPS , sorry.... a kilt not a dress.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: JelenaSrb on April 03, 2008, 05:29:53 AM
Women are allowed to wear pants especially when they go to work but they should definitely wear long skirts and scarves when they go to Church or the place where they worship God! :)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: q_q_ on June 03, 2008, 06:39:41 PM
I think they should only wear dresses and skirts.

Skirts are also very attractive because they are womanly.



since it is an international forum, you may want to say "trousers"..

In britain, pants means underpants.  Though for women, one calls them knickers - in britain anyway.

Saying pants to mean trousers is purely a fairly amusing americanism.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Katie on June 04, 2008, 03:27:06 AM
lol of course its okay for women to wear pants, i don't see why not, its not all about what men find attractive, its also what women find better :) and i like a mix of both, but pants are always a good choice, sometimes when dressing up sure a skirt or dress goes great though, just really depends on what you're doing.. and its certainly not immoral for a woman to wear pants haha thats pretty rediculous, cant get much more sexist than that
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: DownwithIslam on February 28, 2009, 07:38:13 PM
Another quality thread started by the oysvarf who used to call himself "chief administrator."
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Americanhero1 on February 28, 2009, 08:03:15 PM
Another quality thread started by the oysvarf who used to call himself "chief administrator."

Why bring an old topic back to the front?
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Inquiring Mind on March 01, 2009, 12:01:34 AM
yes woman should be allowed to wear pants
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: The One and Only Mo on March 01, 2009, 12:54:53 AM
Where's the " It depends on how frum they are" option? :P
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: MosheTheZionist on March 06, 2009, 07:59:58 AM
If the pants are loose...
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: nessuno on March 06, 2009, 08:48:37 AM
 ::)
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: SW on March 15, 2009, 06:19:27 PM
I don't care what they wear. At least they wear something!
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: The One and Only Mo on March 17, 2009, 11:48:40 AM
I don't care what they wear. At least they wear something!
Right, cause we want to dress them up.
Title: Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
Post by: Adrian Wainer on April 10, 2009, 10:54:58 AM
Women are allowed to wear pants especially when they go to work but they should definitely wear long skirts and scarves when they go to Church or the place where they worship G-d! :)

There are issues I would believe in Judaism in respect of women, wearing trousers, so I would think in many Jewish synagogues wearing trousers would be disrespectful, however depending on the particular ethos of a synagogue, I could not see anything wrong with the short skirts, worn as part a business suit type outfit as worn by many business women in Western countries. Also in Spain, there are some very religious Christian women, which would attend Church in the sort of clothing I have previously described,

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer
Title: Re: Do You Think Pants Are Modest For Women?
Post by: drlmg on April 20, 2009, 12:09:33 PM
I think it is all according to how old they are and what they look like. Personally there are cases where I prefer they wear pants, cases where I prefer a VERY short skirt, a LONG skirt, and in most cases I prefer they wear NOTHING !!!!


JOKING..... I think it is not for me to decide, however if I were a female I would wear pants most of the time. I would wear a skirt or dress to church or to formal events. I would be very choosy with pant suits, most of them look manly and are downright creepy looking.