JTF.ORG Forum
Save Western Civilization => Save Serbia => Topic started by: Dan on March 09, 2008, 07:31:44 PM
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MOSCOW -- Russia is undertaking procedures to allow for a state agreement on the abolishment of visas with Serbia.
Daily Večernje Novosti reports today that Serbians will soon be able to travel to the Russian Federation only with an original invitation or a tourist voucher.
"Russia will maximally ease conditions for entry of Serbian citizens," the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Mikhail Kamynin told journalists in Moscow.
He added that the dropping of the visa regime will influence the development of the traditionally friendly relations between the two countries.
"Many possibilities for trade, economic, scientific, sports and youth cooperation will open up," Kamynin said.
According to him, cultural and spiritual ties will also strengthen, improving communication between Russians and Serbians.
Belgrade is preparing reciprocal measures for the citizens of Russia.
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Awesome:D this could be the start of a Slavic/Orthodox Union:D
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very Good!! now it's time for Romania, Spain and Greece to abolish visas for Serbia!
Did you know that one of the reason why Serbs want to give up on Kosovo and enter in European Union is because they want to travel around Europe without visa?!?!
I even met Serbs who wanted to marry Romanian girls and get the Romanian citizenship, so they could travel much easier?!?!
Can you believe that? Thank G-d there are not many like those who want to sell their country just for their own egos!!!
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Awesome:D this could be the start of a Slavic/Orthodox Union:D
Yes, but I would like Serbia to be Serbia and still righteous Orthodox O0
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Serbia has always been strong no matter in what union. In Byzantium Serbia was strong and in Yugoslavia, even though Titos efforts to weaken Serbia.
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very Good!! now it's time for Romania, Spain and Greece to abolish visas for Serbia!
Did you know that one of the reason why Serbs want to give up on Kosovo and enter in European Union is because they want to travel around Europe without visa?!?!
I even met Serbs who wanted to marry Romanian girls and get the Romanian citizenship, so they could travel much easier?!?!
Can you believe that? Thank G-d there are not many like those who want to sell their country just for their own egos!!!
You abstracted that very good.
I can understand their frustrations!
I hope that the future will bring them better solutions/ opportunities!
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very Good!! now it's time for Romania, Spain and Greece to abolish visas for Serbia!
Did you know that one of the reason why Serbs want to give up on Kosovo and enter in European Union is because they want to travel around Europe without visa?!?!
I even met Serbs who wanted to marry Romanian girls and get the Romanian citizenship, so they could travel much easier?!?!
Can you believe that? Thank G-d there are not many like those who want to sell their country just for their own egos!!!
You abstracted that very good.
I can understand their frustrations!
I hope that the future will bring them better solutions/ opportunities!
same here
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One thing I don't understand is why everyone on this site is so pro-Christian orthodox... Orthodox Christians have been persecuting our people for years even worse than Muslims.. Look at what Russian orthodox did to Jews for so many years.. The only reason Russia is befriending Serbia is to find an ally who is against the USA.. This is the same reason that Russia is funding Iran in its pursuit of nuclear weapons as well as all the other enemies of Israel and USA. Seriously, I wonder how well Jews lived under Serbian Orthodox religion. Has anyone studied in depth, was it as good as living under the oppressive regimes of Russian and Greek Orthodox religions? Most Orthodox people I talk to say I am a "Christ killer". I wonder if Serbian Orthodox have a similar or different view...
Anyhow, I don't support Muslim state of Albania.. I just don't know why everyone is waving their flags for anti-semitic Orthodox Christian countries.
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Serbs sheltered Jews in the following situations:
1) The Crusades
2) The Crusades again
3) WW2
4) War in Yugoslavia
Serbia is the only country I know of that has ever collectively sheltered Jews.
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Serbs sheltered Jews in the following situations:
1) The Crusades
2) The Crusades again
3) WW2
4) War in Yugoslavia
Serbia is the only country I know of that has ever collectively sheltered Jews.
Don't you think now with Russia opening its arms to Serbia, it will teach the Serbs to hate Israel, like the Russians do? That is my concern, it seeems all people who align with the red beast end up being an adversary of Israel.
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Serbs sheltered Jews in the following situations:
1) The Crusades
2) The Crusades again
3) WW2
4) War in Yugoslavia
Serbia is the only country I know of that has ever collectively sheltered Jews.
Don't you think now with Russia opening its arms to Serbia, it will teach the Serbs to hate Israel, like the Russians do? That is my concern, it seeems all people who align with the red beast end up being an adversary of Israel.
What a logic is this ?? Russia is going to turn Serbs into anti-semites? How does it come that this didn't happen some centuries ago then?
The alliance between Russia and Serbia is not exactly since yesterday, but dates centuries back.
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Our Russian brothers are the best allies! We thank all other nations that support us but Russia is special to every Serb! It is probably hard for you to understand since we ( Orthodox Christians) are the One in Christ! Since you don't understand Christ well...:) we cannot expect non-orthodox to understand our world-view, which is based on the New Testament ( and Orthodox interpretation of Holy Bible, which is the most important thing).
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Our Russian brothers are the best allies! We thank all other nations that support us but Russia is special to every Serb! It is probably hard for you to understand since we ( Orthodox Christians) are the One in Christ! Since you don't understand Christ well...:) we cannot expect non-orthodox to understand our world-view, which is based on the New Testament ( and Orthodox interpretation of Holy Bible, which is the most important thing).
Jelena welcome to our forum!
Yes, it are only the Russians who are our brothers by blood and by religion!
Well said! :)
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Амин! Слава Богу!
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Romanians were brutal nazis. Russia blames all of its failings and problems on Jewish people and on Israel.
Russia has a history of siding with the islamofacist.
I support Serbia because I know that Serbians saved Jewish people during WW2.
But I will not support russia and I will not support romanians.
I am grateful that the Serbians saved Jewish people during WW2 but make no mistake I do not support marxism, fascists, islamofascists or communism.
I support Serbians only to the extent that they form an independent country and government.
But if you guys want to support russia then my support ends there.
Call me a backstabbing Jew all you want, but my gratefulness is not based on ignorance.
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Romanians were brutal nazis. Russia blames all of its failings and problems on Jewish people and on Israel.
Russia has a history of siding with the islamofacist.
I support Serbia because I know that Serbians saved Jewish people during WW2.
But I will not support russia and I will not support romanians.
I am grateful that the Serbians saved Jewish people during WW2 but make no mistake I do not support marxism, fascists, islamofascists or communism.
I support Serbians only to the extent that they form an independent country and government.
But if you guys want to support russia then my support ends there.
Call me a backstabbing Jew all you want, but my gratefulness is not based on ignorance.
Talk about backstabbing the Orthodox people who lost Kosovo to the USA Nato muzzies!
Kosovo is equally important to Russian people, as to Serbs.
Without the 24 million death Soviets, D-day would have been a lot later ... in the 50 ties.
We are all Europeans, in West or East Europe, or in America.
We must support each-other, before the whole 3d world invades us.
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Serbs sheltered Jews in the following situations:
1) The Crusades
2) The Crusades again
3) WW2
4) War in Yugoslavia
Serbia is the only country I know of that has ever collectively sheltered Jews.
Don't you think now with Russia opening its arms to Serbia, it will teach the Serbs to hate Israel, like the Russians do? That is my concern, it seeems all people who align with the red beast end up being an adversary of Israel.
What a logic is this ?? Russia is going to turn Serbs into anti-semites? How does it come that this didn't happen some centuries ago then?
The alliance between Russia and Serbia is not exactly since yesterday, but dates centuries back.
Its the logic of self-preservation. Jewish people are not muslims. We do not follow the philosophy that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. We have learned that Jewish people dont really have friends, not that we really care. But what we are asking is what kind of assurance do Jewish people have for the future that sovietsky politiks wont unduly influence Serbia to become anti-Jewish.
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Romanians were brutal nazis. Russia blames all of its failings and problems on Jewish people and on Israel.
Russia has a history of siding with the islamofacist.
I support Serbia because I know that Serbians saved Jewish people during WW2.
But I will not support russia and I will not support romanians.
I am grateful that the Serbians saved Jewish people during WW2 but make no mistake I do not support marxism, fascists, islamofascists or communism.
I support Serbians only to the extent that they form an independent country and government.
But if you guys want to support russia then my support ends there.
Call me a backstabbing Jew all you want, but my gratefulness is not based on ignorance.
Talk about backstabbing the Orthodox people who lost Kosovo to the USA Nato muzzies!
Kosovo is equally important to Russian people, as to Serbs.
Without the 24 million death Soviets, D-day would have been a lot later ... in the 50 ties.
We are all Europeans, in West or East Europe, or in America.
We must support each-other, before the whole 3d world invades us.
Excuse me partner. I am an American and I'm Jewish and I have no allegiance to russia my family fled russia for plenty of good reasons. My allegiance is to AMERICA ONLY!! and I am only interested in trying to prevent MY COUNTRY from continuing in making a bad mistake worse.
I no longer have to live under an oppression where someone elses religious beliefs are DICTATED TO ME!!
Now, what I am trying to do is I am trying to be civil and I am trying to gain some kind of assurance that sovietsky politiks do not taint Serbian nationality. I am no fool and I dont have to live in fear of the czarist regime of Putin.
So I can ask a legitimate question that address my safety and the safety of the future of the Jewish people.
I was not being disrespectful to you and I expect that you will not be disrespectful to me.
I am not condeming Serbia and I have already stated that I support Serbia.
But I DO NOT OWE YOU ANYTHING BECAUSE MY FAMILY KILLED NAZIS.
They were also slaughtered by the romanians and opressed by the russians.
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Serbs sheltered Jews in the following situations:
1) The Crusades
2) The Crusades again
3) WW2
4) War in Yugoslavia
Serbia is the only country I know of that has ever collectively sheltered Jews.
Don't you think now with Russia opening its arms to Serbia, it will teach the Serbs to hate Israel, like the Russians do? That is my concern, it seeems all people who align with the red beast end up being an adversary of Israel.
What a logic is this ?? Russia is going to turn Serbs into anti-semites? How does it come that this didn't happen some centuries ago then?
The alliance between Russia and Serbia is not exactly since yesterday, but dates centuries back.
Its the logic of self-preservation. Jewish people are not muslims. We do not follow the philosophy that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. We have learned that Jewish people dont really have friends, not that we really care. But what we are asking is what kind of assurance do Jewish people have for the future that sovietsky politiks wont unduly influence Serbia to become anti-Jewish.
Maybe it would help if liberal self-hating Jews and Gentiles worldwide should stop supporting the USA and its attempt to colonize the Kosovo, and to destroy Serbia and Russia as well.
I am Flemish, but I know I'll side with Russian and Serbian Patriots the day WWIII breaks out.
It is obvious that these people in Russia are the victims of communism, and that the same ex-communist elites still rule Russia.
This regime indeed uses anti-semitism as a tool to consolidate its power.
Lenin should never have given access to Russia by the Germans in 1907.
Many Russians regard communism of the early days as a Jewish-controlled government. That is what makes them hate you.
We all know , that in the end a Jew is always blamed for everything everywhere.
That's why Israel needs a real right wing government that can save all the Jews from destruction.
That's why we Europeans need real right wing governments, to save us as well from one-worldistan.
As long as some American Jews support the annexation of Kosovo, Russians will hate USA and Jews for this.
If Nato would pull out its troops from Orthodox soil, and EU USA would get their hands off Serbia's Holy Ground,
and Chaim would be in charge in Israel,
I think anti-semitism would drop significantly in the world.
Right now we are all fooled by our governments.
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Serbs sheltered Jews in the following situations:
1) The Crusades
2) The Crusades again
3) WW2
4) War in Yugoslavia
Serbia is the only country I know of that has ever collectively sheltered Jews.
Don't you think now with Russia opening its arms to Serbia, it will teach the Serbs to hate Israel, like the Russians do? That is my concern, it seeems all people who align with the red beast end up being an adversary of Israel.
What a logic is this ?? Russia is going to turn Serbs into anti-semites? How does it come that this didn't happen some centuries ago then?
The alliance between Russia and Serbia is not exactly since yesterday, but dates centuries back.
Its the logic of self-preservation. Jewish people are not muslims. We do not follow the philosophy that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. We have learned that Jewish people dont really have friends, not that we really care. But what we are asking is what kind of assurance do Jewish people have for the future that sovietsky politiks wont unduly influence Serbia to become anti-Jewish.
Maybe it would help if liberal self-hating Jews and Gentiles worldwide should stop supporting the USA and its attempt to colonize the Kosovo, and to destroy Serbia and Russia as well.
I am Flemish, but I know I'll side with Russian and Serbian Patriots the day WWIII breaks out.
It is obvious that these people in Russia are the victims of communism, and that the same ex-communist elites still rule Russia.
This regime indeed uses anti-semitism as a tool to consolidate its power.
Lenin should never have given access to Russia by the Germans in 1907.
Many Russians regard communism of the early days as a Jewish-controlled government. That is what makes them hate you.
We all know , that in the end a Jew is always blamed for everything everywhere.
That's why Israel needs a real right wing government that can save all the Jews from destruction.
That's why we Europeans need real right wing governments, to save us as well from one-worldistan.
As long as some American Jews support the annexation of Kosovo, Russians will hate USA and Jews for this.
If Nato would pull out its troops from Orthodox soil, and EU USA would get their hands off Serbia's Holy Ground,
and Chaim would be in charge in Israel,
I think anti-semitism would drop significantly in the world.
Right now we are all fooled by our governments.
That some audacity you display on a Jewish website. You dont know me well enough to imply hat I'm a 'self-hating liberal Jew' do you assert this claim based on the fact that I dont see myself as a european?
Furthermore it would behoove you to stick to YOUR side of the story and dont be a typical european by trying to tell me who I am.
That is the problem with most europeans today, you guys think Jewish people owe you something.
I'm going to clarify AGAIN, I said I support Serbia and what it is doing, I support Serbia because know as many russian Jewish people know they fought the nazis.
MY allegiance is with America and I am interested in helping my country in keeping from making become worse.
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With out Russia, their won't be Serbia...
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I support Serbia but I have real concerns about Russia!
Russia are too friendly with Iran, and I do believe that Russia is moving towards a dictatorship again!
I am not saying that their friendliness to Serbia is not a good thing, it is good for Serbia, however Russia is guilty of anti-semitism and their friendly stance towards Iran is very concerning!
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That some audacity you display on a Jewish website. You dont know me well enough to imply hat I'm a 'self-hating liberal Jew' do you assert this claim based on the fact that I dont see myself as a european?
Hallo? I didn't even refer to you. And of course I can't possibly know you after reading 7 of your posts.
I refer to self-hating "Jewish" and Gentile politicians in the USA, that support the destruction of Israel, of Europe, of the Western World, and thus should be put to death for treason.
They adhere to the imperial "Roman" imperial style of government.
Furthermore it would behoove you to stick to YOUR side of the story and dont be a typical european by trying to tell me who I am.
What typical European? West-European, East-European and American/Australian/South-African people of European descent are in essence the same.
If you are a Jew - defend Israel and go live there.
If you are of European descent, defend unity between all countries made by Europeans.
That is the problem with most europeans today, you guys think Jewish people owe you something.
I do not know any people stating the Jews "owe us something" ?
What exactly , according to you , do Europeans say that Jews owe us?
I'm going to clarify AGAIN, I said I support Serbia and what it is doing, I support Serbia because know as many russian Jewish people know they fought the nazis.
They defended their nation, and they will do it again against the NATO-USA-EU if neccessary, and I will join them. As will hundreds of Russian volunteers, as in the 90-ties. Albanian and Bosnian muslims must be eradicated at all cost, and the US military base in Kosovo must be abandoned.
MY allegiance is with America and I am interested in helping my country in keeping from making become worse.
Jews should not be loyal to America, or any other country, except Israel.
That, is the view of Kahane.
But OK go defend the USA, and steal our European Orthodox KOSOVO.
By supporting the USA current foreign policy, you support the destruction of Israel and Europe and Russia.
We don't need your US troops here. So get out of Europe.
And defend your own mexican border.
The troops and military might of the USA will not prevent the USA to disintegrate from the alien invasion.
Israel should be far better off, without US aid, and should be given carte blanche to expel the Arabs on Israeli soil.
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If you're this powerful with words Ambiorix, I don't want to know how you are with an AK:P
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I support Serbia but I have real concerns about Russia!
Russia are too friendly with Iran, and I do believe that Russia is moving towards a dictatorship again!
I am not saying that their friendliness to Serbia is not a good thing, it is good for Serbia, however Russia is guilty of anti-semitism and their friendly stance towards Iran is very concerning!
First: NATO is trying to occupy as much territory as it can in the Eurasian continent.
The biggest part of that continent is Russia.
So it is normal Russia fights back.
We Europeans would do ourselves a big favour to get rid of Nato, EU, and so on.
Second : no Western country really cares about Jews nor anti-semitism.
In WWII the allied forces refused to bombed the railroads to the concentration camps.
that proves enough, the the USA or England doesn't give a **** about the Jews.
The support of Russia to Iran or any Arabs is a geo-political strategy that the Soviets also used.
The USA and EU are as guilty as Russia by defending the Saudis, the Quwaitis, the Fakestinians, the Qatars, etc,...
It is a game of Chess, between Nato, and Russia, and in reality, Poetin is not at all so nationalistic as his propagandamachine tells the Russians.
The KGB guys all filled their pockets, put that money in a Swiss bank, and this maffia holds power in Russia. Those billionaires that disagree with the party-line, are eliminated.
Meanwhile, they use ultranationalist propaganda to fool the Russians.
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If you're this powerful with words Ambiorix, I don't want to know how you are with an AK:P
Our country forbid guns, and since 1990, Belgians are not required to join the army anymore.
I'll definitely need some extensive training before I can make a chance in the battlefield.
But I would love to eradicate albania O0 O0 O0 O0 and drive out the Nato whores.
Anyway, for me it seems more patriotic at this point to join the Russians and the Serbs, than joining the EU/NATO/US forces in case of WWIII.
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If you're this powerful with words Ambiorix, I don't want to know how you are with an AK:P
Our country forbid guns, and since 1990, Belgians are not required to join the army anymore.
I'll definitely need some extensive training before I can make a chance in the battlefield.
But I would love to eradicate albania O0 O0 O0 O0 and drive out the Nato whores.
Anyway, for me it seems more patriotic at this point to join the Russians and the Serbs, than joining the EU/NATO/US forces in case of WWIII.
At least I see some willingness amongst Russians to reverse the colonisation of our lands by aliens. Here in the west, men are not radical enough. Russia is better. The best we can do, if all of Europe would fall in third worlders hands, is to flee to the land of the Cossacks or the Serbs, ask permission to stay there and help to fight until the bitter end.
Cossacks, throughout the history, are as brutal as possible can get, so they'll probably have the best change of surviving a IslamiJihadiHolocaust.
I know for sure Eu will capitulate in case of a major Intifada.
They haven't done anything else the last 10 years, so it must be a policy, to unite EU and North-africa-Turkey-Arabia.
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My compliments and respect toward Ambiorix
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Same here:D
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Thanks! I get by with a little help from my friends. ;) ;)
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At present Russia should be considered on the positive side of the screen, at least limited to the context of Kosovo, Serbia and Albanian Slamics.
With Regards... :)
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I'm going to clarify AGAIN, I said I support Serbia and what it is doing, I support Serbia because know as many russian Jewish people know they fought the nazis.
MY allegiance is with America and I am interested in helping my country in keeping from making become worse.
Friend, you are not being resemble or realistic towards Russia.
You claim that Russia is an anti Semitic nation?
That is not true. Anti Semitism has it's roots coming from sources out side the Orthodox Church. If you clam that Orthodox Russia is anti Semitic than you are also saying that Orthodox Serbia is also involved with anti Semitism. The Serbs and the Russians have the same religion. You can not separate the Orthodox Church of Russia with Serbia’s.
Do not be naive.
Orthodoxism never tolerated anti Semitism.
Our church fathers always told us that anti Semitism has its roots outside the church!
We had a topic about this and you should read it and inform your self about the real relationship between Orthodoxism and anti Semitism.
I am going to tell you this as a Orthodox Christian and Serb:
The Orthodox Christian Church of Russia, Greece, Serbia and of others who kept the purity of the Christianity never compromised with theories from third parties.
The Christian religion is perfect because it is made by G-d but the Human who must obey it's teachings is not perfect! This means that the imperfect human must not modify or change something that is perfectly made! It is a shame and a crime to put changes into the Christian religion because it will be losing it’s perfection.
We the Serbs ( it counts also for the Russians) never compromised with the theory which teaches that the white “Christian” race is the chosen nation and that the Jews are evil.
This theory is accept by some protestant communities in America.
We say the role of the Jews still counts because G-d did not completely eliminate The Tanach. The new testament is more important for us Christian than The Tanach but The Tanach is not completely removed.
The Vatican has also a dark history from inquisitions, to genocide and anti Semitism.
You must know how to separate the values and the history of the Orthodox church from the one of the Vatican and of other “churches” which separated their selves from the Apostolic church of Jesus Christ which is today known as the Orthodox Church.
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I never liked Russia because i am half Ukrainian >:( they need to kill the Chechen's
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I support Serbia but I have real concerns about Russia!
Russia are too friendly with Iran, and I do believe that Russia is moving towards a dictatorship again!
I am not saying that their friendliness to Serbia is not a good thing, it is good for Serbia, however Russia is guilty of anti-semitism and their friendly stance towards Iran is very concerning!
To add to that, the Romanians were some of the most vicious fascists hence my need for clarification.
I dont have a problem with taking the side of the good. My concern is how much of a squeeze will I be when
the $hit hits the fan and I'm caught in the middle because I'm Jewish.
I really dont think that many people understand what the complications are in being Jewish. Everytime we stick our necks out it gets sliced. We've stuck our necks out before and will in all likeliness continue in the future.
Anyway, I'm glad that atleast the question of Serbia seeking to be truly independent is being considered on some level. I support Serbia in its plight, I dont support russia and dont support Romania.
America made a terrible mistake that it didnt let Serbia handle its business to that I can agree without any hesitation. I am an American whose family fled the soviet union and every russian Jewish person I know can attest to the fact that the Serbians fought the nazis. That might not be saying much but I can give it the best I can.
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Serbs were not the only people to fight the Nazis
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I never liked russia >:( they need to kill the russian muslims
You mean the chechens? They've been trying to but America keeps sticking its nose in other peoples business.
Blame this policy mostly on Clinton, just like it was when he bombed Serbia. Clinton is garbage.
Clinton is the first democrat President since Carter and that was another disaster.
Two democrats in a row screwed things up.
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yes those people but that is not why i don't like Russians
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Friend, you are not being resemble or realistic towards Russia.
You claim that Russia is an anti Semitic nation?
Sigh, such has been explained to me from first hand accounts.
I will not argue your point of view, I understand what you are saying and cannot dispute that
because I do not have enough evidence to do so.
The Vatican has also a dark history from inquisitions, to genocide and anti Semitism.
I would go far as to say that the Vatican does not want Israel to exist in any form because if Israel comes to exist the world will realize the truth. The Vatican has never spoken out against terrorism, at all, as far as I know and has never outright supported the existence of Israel.
I understand what you are saying and I appreciate the respect you have showed me by explained to me the context of the situation.
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Who is that directed towards?
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In any event, I certainly appreciate the respect you have showed me and definitely appreciate you helping me understand the difference between the Orthodox Church and the Vatican.
A lot of this interestingly seems to be making more and more sense.
So what church was Clinton in?
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I don't know what church they belong to ???
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Who is that directed towards?
My response to you was the remark about Chechens.
The other post with bold letters is to DALMACIJA
I hope this clarifies?
And yes I saw your post and am aware that there are some Croatians who fought the nazis too.
This just demonstrates how dirty and diseased the nazis were because of them europe had neighbors fighting neighbors, neighbors surrendering neighbors to the nazis. Ad-hoc executions by the side of roads, shallow graves for the executed.
The nazis absolutely disgust me for so many reasons and one more reason was because of the chaos they created.
Now if America can only get its head out of its collective @$$ and start to pick its battles more carefully.
I've read there are descendent of nazi-germans who live in Minnessota and follow shitlers teachings for crying out loud.
The only reason those people are still breathing is because people like me value our freedom more than I value their life. The only thing keeping them alive is my respect for the law.The fact that they recognize facism as a viable solution makes them a dangerous enemy that must be executed.Its not that they havent learned anything from history, its that they learned history selectively and still choose to stick with the losing side.
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That helps but i still don't like Russia no offence
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That helps but i still don't like Russia no offence
Dont worry about offending me about russia.
But I understand the context of how it falls together now with Serbia.
Clinton that idiot had it inside out. I find it remarkable how utterly stupid Clinton was.
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it has nothing to do with Serbia i don't like Russia because i am half Ukrainian and half Croat
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it has nothing to do with Serbia i don't like Russia because i am half Ukrainian and half Croat
Europeans need to unite, not to fight each-other for some nationalistic agendas. The muslim enemy is within our borders and is multiplying fast, we have no time, nor resources to fight each-other.
As far as I know, Chechens were having semi-independence under the Tsars as well.
The war was difficult only because Russia was politically weak. Now these muzzies are back under control, their muslimnazi leader is payed by Putin to control the region, and that's going well.
Lots of other muzz-regions are not going to rebell against Russia . because, they are totally dependant on Moscow and the Kremlin.
The Caucasus at the other hand is getting more problematic now.
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it has nothing to do with Serbia i don't like Russia because i am half Ukrainian and half Croat
Europeans need to unite, not to fight each-other for some nationalistic agendas. The muslim enemy is within our borders and is multiplying fast, we have no time, nor resources to fight each-other.
As far as I know, Chechens were having semi-independence under the Tsars as well.
The war was difficult only because Russia was politically weak. Now these muzzies are back under control, their muslimnazi leader is payed by Putin to control the region, and that's going well.
Lots of other muzz-regions are not going to rebell against Russia . because, they are totally dependant on Moscow and the Kremlin.
The Caucasus at the other hand is getting more problematic now.
I'm not fighting with you guys, I now understand what your saying and what was explained to me.
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Who is that directed towards?
My response to you was the remark about Chechens.
The other post with bold letters is to DALMACIJA
I hope this clarifies?
And yes I saw your post and am aware that there are some Croatians who fought the nazis too.
Friend, believe me 90% of the Croatian people supported the Croatian Nazi Ustasha government. The today's state of Croatia which is established on the principles of the Ustashi movement is still allied with Nazism.
The so called Croatian anti fascist movement was started and found by the Serbs.
The Serbian population of todays Croatia was fighting the Nazis and the Croatian Nazi government in 1941. The high majority of the Croatian people supported fanatically the Germans and their Nazi government which conducted genocide against the Serbs and the Jews.
German Nazis welcomed by the Croatian people in the Croatian capital Zagreb.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c39hqCyKVK4
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In any event, I certainly appreciate the respect you have showed me and definitely appreciate you helping me understand the difference between the Orthodox Church and the Vatican.
A lot of this interestingly seems to be making more and more sense.
So what church was Clinton in?
Good my Jewish comrade.
Know that you can trust real Orthodox Christians!
Please stay here with us and we will together like brothers solve all the misunderstandings.
Clinton was an atheist I think...
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I'm going to clarify AGAIN, I said I support Serbia and what it is doing, I support Serbia because know as many russian Jewish people know they fought the nazis.
MY allegiance is with America and I am interested in helping my country in keeping from making become worse.
Friend, you are not being resemble or realistic towards Russia.
You claim that Russia is an anti Semitic nation?
That is not true. Anti Semitism has it's roots coming from sources out side the Orthodox Church. If you clam that Orthodox Russia is anti Semitic than you are also saying that Orthodox Serbia is also involved with anti Semitism. The Serbs and the Russians have the same religion. You can not separate the Orthodox Church of Russia with Serbia’s.
Do not be naive.
Orthodoxism never tolerated anti Semitism.
Our church fathers always told us that anti Semitism has its roots outside the church!
We had a topic about this and you should read it and inform your self about the real relationship between Orthodoxism and anti Semitism.
I am going to tell you this as a Orthodox Christian and Serb:
The Orthodox Christian Church of Russia, Greece, Serbia and of others who kept the purity of the Christianity never compromised with theories from third parties.
The Christian religion is perfect because it is made by G-d but the Human who must obey it's teachings is not perfect! This means that the imperfect human must not modify or change something that is perfectly made! It is a shame and a crime to put changes into the Christian religion because it will be losing it’s perfection.
We the Serbs ( it counts also for the Russians) never compromised with the theory which teaches that the white “Christian” race is the chosen nation and that the Jews are evil.
This theory is accept by some protestant communities in America.
We say the role of the Jews still counts because G-d did not completely eliminate The Tanach. The new testament is more important for us Christian than The Tanach but The Tanach is not completely removed.
The Vatican has also a dark history from inquisitions, to genocide and anti Semitism.
You must know how to separate the values and the history of the Orthodox church from the one of the Vatican and of other “churches” which separated their selves from the Apostolic church of Jesus Christ which is today known as the Orthodox Church.
Orthodox church never tolerated anti-semitism? What about the blood libels, the persecutions of the Jews in villages, by orthodox christian members. The constant label of Christ-killer and Communist? Who is being naive? Look, I respect Serbians for fighting nazis and their helping Jews in time of need, but do not turn a blind eye to the oppression of Jewish people by Orthodox Christians. Please don't blame the Catholics alone in this, as Orthodox, Protestant along with Catholics have been responsible for the suffering and torture of Jews in Europe. Don't say that Orthodox Russia did not play a great role in persecuting Jewish people. Many of the knights of the Czar who would attack villages in Russia, were also devoted Orthodox Christians, who belived attacking the Jews was justified, since it is a common view in Orthodox and Catholic religions that Jews are the killers of Christ. Now, I know there is many Orthodox, even Catholic people, who do not hold the contemporary view that Jews are Christ killers, some believe they are Chosen people, or that not one race is to be blamed for this; but you cannot deny the treatment that Jews went from the church in those days. Even today, many Russian Orthodox I meet are highly anti-semitic and believe the Jews are responsible for all suffering in the world. I think some people need to wake up.. Even though I don't like Albanian Muslims, there is also many Orthodox Christians in Albania, and the Jews never had experienced the horrible treatment living in Albania that they did in Orthodox Russia. A good deal of Albanians in the mountains and highlands are also Christian. Albania is a 30%-40% Christian country and they are seperated from Muslims.
Does this mean I support the stripping of Kosovo from Serbia and giving to Albanians? No, not at all.. As, any muslim state can harbor terrorism and people like Iranians, Pakistanis and Arabs will take advantage of having a new Islamic state to settle.
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How many Jews lived or live in Albania?
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Many of the knights of the Czar who would attack villages in Russia, were also devoted Orthodox Christians, who belived attacking the Jews was justified, since it is a common view in Orthodox and Catholic religions that Jews are the killers of Christ
In Orthodox Christianity killing other people is never justified except if it is a war when you have to defend yourself! Some Jews did kill Christos but Christos did resurrect! :) Lord knew they would kill Him but He also knew about resurrection! it was all planned long long ago ! ( Не знам да ли знате да су * у Вечном Савету Отац и Дух Свети одобрили Сину стварање светова за љубав Сина јер је Он у бескрајној љубави према Оцу хтео да Му угоди тиме што би му створио више синова,а себи више браће!! ) :) Glory to God! It was their choice not to accept the Messiah who kept talking about Heavenly Kingdom! Jews want earthly kingdom and God respects their choice! So do we!
Furthermore, we don't justify killing Jews because their ancestors crucified Lord Christ! There is always a possibility for Jews to convert willingly , of course. And it happens! So you never know who might be your brother ( in Christ)! :) People have the choice till the very end of their earthly lives of whether to except Christ or not. Therefore, do not worry, Christians are patient and we love you all! :) God bless!
* this is an extract from the book " Kasiana" by Saint Nikolai! :)
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Many of the knights of the Czar who would attack villages in Russia, were also devoted Orthodox Christians, who belived attacking the Jews was justified, since it is a common view in Orthodox and Catholic religions that Jews are the killers of Christ
In Orthodox Christianity killing other people is never justified except if it is a war when you have to defend yourself! Some Jews did kill Christos but Christos did resurrect! :)
Be that as it may, the Russian Orthodox Church in czarist era was extremely antisemitic, Czarist Russia has d state sponsored antisemitism and persecutions. And The thing is that Russia had been antisemitic even before it acquired large population of jews (by conquering Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine and Belarus), the reason for that being the church.
I am not attacking your religion, but I must condemn the Russian Church as an antisemitic establishment.
Furthermore, we don't justify killing Jews because their ancestors crucified Lord Christ! There is always a possibility for Jews to convert willingly , of course. And it happens! So you never know who might be your brother ( in Christ)! :) People have the choice till the very end of their earthly lives of whether to except Christ or not. Therefore, do not worry, Christians are patient and we love you all! :) G-d bless!
* this is an extract from the book " Kasiana" by Saint Nikolai! :)
So you do see all jews as responsible for slaying jesus unless they convert?
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Many of the knights of the Czar who would attack villages in Russia, were also devoted Orthodox Christians, who belived attacking the Jews was justified, since it is a common view in Orthodox and Catholic religions that Jews are the killers of Christ
This is a lie.
This is also a wrong way of thinking and talking.
You are mixing lies with the truth. Half truths and lies can easily be considered as the truth..
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- It is a lie that the Orthodox Church had the same additude towards the Jews as the Roman Church of the Vatican had.
Were there anti semitic person among the Orthodox Church?
This is a lie.
This is also a wrong way of thinking and talking.
You are mixing lies with the truth. Half truths and lies can easily be considered as the truth..
Absolutely yes! Among every communities you have conceptions.
Where you have people you will always have trouble.
In contradiction to the Vatican the anti Semites among the Orthodox nation were always the minority. You can not judge the whole Orthodox Church for the crimes of it's minority.
The heads of the Vatican were involved with anti Semitism. That is a fact.
But the anti Semites of the Orthodox nations were just a minority and not the leaders of the church. Which Patriarch supported anti Semitism? Which church father propagated that anti Semitism was something good?
The former popes (4 example Hitler’s pope) and the other members of the Catholic Church were involved with anti Semitic activities.
To claim that the Orthodox Church or the Russian state had prepared, organized and conducted genocide against the Jews in the same way as the Vatican or Nazi Germany had done is considered as an anti Orthodox speech and as an serious attack against the whole Orthodox civilizations.
I am being very diplomatically right now and I am trying to give a serious answer with out emotions. Please people stop attacking the Orthodox Church and do not compare the history of the Vatican with the one of the Orthodox Church. Because that is Nazism!
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Many of the knights of the Czar who would attack villages in Russia, were also devoted Orthodox Christians, who belived attacking the Jews was justified, since it is a common view in Orthodox and Catholic religions that Jews are the killers of Christ
In Orthodox Christianity killing other people is never justified except if it is a war when you have to defend yourself! Some Jews did kill Christos but Christos did resurrect! :) Lord knew they would kill Him but He also knew about resurrection! it was all planned long long ago ! ( Не знам да ли знате да су * у Вечном Савету Отац и Дух Свети одобрили Сину стварање светова за љубав Сина јер је Он у бескрајној љубави према Оцу хтео да Му угоди тиме што би му створио више синова,а себи више браће!! ) :) Glory to G-d! It was their choice not to accept the Messiah who kept talking about Heavenly Kingdom! Jews want earthly kingdom and G-d respects their choice! So do we!
Furthermore, we don't justify killing Jews because their ancestors crucified Lord Christ! There is always a possibility for Jews to convert willingly , of course. And it happens! So you never know who might be your brother ( in Christ)! :) People have the choice till the very end of their earthly lives of whether to except Christ or not. Therefore, do not worry, Christians are patient and we love you all! :) G-d bless!
* this is an extract from the book " Kasiana" by Saint Nikolai! :)
Hello sister,
Jews should do what they thing it's the right thing.
Nobody should try to convert anyone to the Orthodox religion.
I have no problem with Jews who only respect the authority the Tanach.
The Jews still have an important role because they are the chosen people in the days of the Tanach. The new testament is highest authority of the Christians, but the Tanach is not completely removed.
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I always talk about individual people! So when I say that there is a possibility that Jews convert to Orthodoxy, it means certain Jews who want that! I see every human being as unique and special! So even when I talk with Jews,Muslims there is a possibility that one day they might be my brothers and sisters in Christ so I don't reject anybody or hate! Even if they don't convert I respect them as human beings and brothers by Adam. I respect their choice! Thank God, we all have free will and freedom to choose how to live and what to believe in!
I think that they are not chosen people anymore since we know that chosen are those who follow Christ and are part of His mystical Body ( Church) ! However, I do believe that Jews have an extremely important role to play in the not-too-distant future!
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I think that they are not chosen people anymore since we know that chosen are those who follow Christ and are part of His mystical Body ( Church) ! However, I do believe that Jews have an extremely important role to play in the not-too-distant future!
The role of the Jews today is not exactly the same as it was during the days of the Tanach. But it is not completely eliminated since the old testamentt is not totally
removed.
But God made an agreement/ promise to the Jewish people.
God's is still respecting that promise even if the Jewish people are not listening to God.
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I think that they are not chosen people anymore since we know that chosen are those who follow Christ and are part of His mystical Body ( Church) ! However, I do believe that Jews have an extremely important role to play in the not-too-distant future!
Yes, but G-d chose the Jews with purpose to bring the Messiah to the world.
It is a fact that through the Jews Jesus entered this world. A Jewish woman gave birth to Christ.
G-d made a promise to the Jewish people inwhich he said I will curse those who curse you and bless those who bless you. G-d always respects his promises.
About the Jews being the chosen people well they were it in the days of The Tanach and The Tanach is not totally removed. That means that their role is not also totally eliminated.
We non Jews can today also be connected with the G-d of Abraham, Jacob and Isac.
That is the difference between the days of the olld Tesstanment and today.
Today there is no difference anymore between a Greek and a Jew.
Because of the works of Jesus Christ we non Jews can also become one of the descants of Abraham.
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In any event, I certainly appreciate the respect you have showed me and definitely appreciate you helping me understand the difference between the Orthodox Church and the Vatican.
A lot of this interestingly seems to be making more and more sense.
So what church was Clinton in?
Good my Jewish comrade.
Know that you can trust real Orthodox Christians!
Please stay here with us and we will together like brothers solve all the misunderstandings.
Clinton was an atheist I think...
Clinton may have started out as an atheist but I think when he went on national TV and asked J.C. for forgiveness my guess is he got in bed with the Vatican at that point. From there he got it into his head to bomb Serbia, or more precisely assist kosovo. I feel that his interest lay more in weakening the Orthodox Church more than defending the kosovars.
I remember thinking in the 90's how unstylish it was to make distinctions between fascists and people who want to defend their own country. The way that whole thing was portrayed here was that we were battling russian imperialism, however vague it was. Clinton really put a spin on it. The more I think about it the more my head spins.
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I think it has more to do with geopolitical interests of the USA , than with the Vatican.
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Can you become a US president as an Atheist? I thought Clinton is Protestant Christian?!?!
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Can you become a US president as an Atheist? I thought Clinton is Protestant Christian?!?!
No idea.
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Can you become a US president as an Atheist? I thought Clinton is Protestant Christian?!?!
Yes, it doesn't matter
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I THINK EVIL KLINTON IS A BAPTIST ,MANY BAPTISTS DON'NT LIKE KKKLINTON EVEN THOUGH HE'S A BAPTIST.HILLARY IS A METHODIST
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Protestantism has nothing to do with true Christianity nor catholicism!
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Protestantism has nothing to do with true Christianity nor catholicism!
Do you know anything of the history of protestantism and it's relation the catholicism??? Have you ever talked with a Protestant Christians?
How can you know your Church is more true than others? Isn't a bit strange that every major branch of the Church claims this?
As far as I know the Schismas of the Church have much more to do with contemporary politics and national interests than with true believing in God.
Compare with Islam, it's just the same.
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Protestantism has nothing to do with true Christianity nor catholicism!
Do you know anything of the history of protestantism and it's relation the catholicism??? Have you ever talked with a Protestant Christians?
How can you know your Church is more true than others? Isn't a bit strange that every major branch of the Church claims this?
As far as I know the Schismas of the Church have much more to do with contemporary politics and national interests than with true believing in G-d.
Compare with Islam, it's just the same.
Hi Ambiorix!
On one hand, this is a very complicated issue! It would take hours of discussion and fill many volumes! Yet on the other hand Christianity is very simple to understand!
If one was to stick to the writings of Christianity - The New Testament, in The Bible in conjunction with the Hebrew scriptures, The Tanach - you will see Christianity is easy to understand!
The Gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke and John - are a record of Jesus time on earth and what he taught. The Epistles (or letters), the remaining books of the New Testament (excluding the book of Acts and the book of Revelation), are usually letters of teaching and instruction to the Church or Christians of the day. These are all still very relevant to Christians now!
Church history is complicated, but true Christianity is not! No individual Church or Church movement (such as Catholicism or Protestantism) is the authority on what Christianity or the Church should "look like". The Bible - both New Testament and Tanach - is the authority and instruction manual on what the Church/Christianity should "look like!"
Many things taught in Church movements cannot even be found in the Christian scriptures!
I have spent most of my life studying Christianity (and many other religions, cults and sects).
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This is good news, Serbs deserve to get visas for any country.
SERBS = HEROES.
TO HELL WITH ALBANIAN NAZI INVADING PIGS.
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Protestantism has nothing to do with true Christianity nor catholicism!
Do you know anything of the history of protestantism and it's relation the catholicism??? Have you ever talked with a Protestant Christians?
How can you know your Church is more true than others? Isn't a bit strange that every major branch of the Church claims this?
As far as I know the Schismas of the Church have much more to do with contemporary politics and national interests than with true believing in G-d.
Compare with Islam, it's just the same.
Hi Ambiorix!
On one hand, this is a very complicated issue! It would take hours of discussion and fill many volumes! Yet on the other hand Christianity is very simple to understand!
If one was to stick to the writings of Christianity - The New Testament, in The Bible in conjunction with the Hebrew scriptures, The Tanach - you will see Christianity is easy to understand!
The Gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke and John - are a record of Jesus time on earth and what he taught. The Epistles (or letters), the remaining books of the New Testament (excluding the book of Acts and the book of Revelation), are usually letters of teaching and instruction to the Church or Christians of the day. These are all still very relevant to Christians now!
Church history is complicated, but true Christianity is not! No individual Church or Church movement (such as Catholicism or Protestantism) is the authority on what Christianity or the Church should "look like". The Bible - both New Testament and Tanach - is the authority and instruction manual on what the Church/Christianity should "look like!"
Many things taught in Church movements cannot even be found in the Christian scriptures!
I have spent most of my life studying Christianity (and many other religions, cults and sects).
That's the best post I read in all this thread; I'm with you on christianity I don't like Russia's rulers, but germans, british and french goverments and ukrainian nationalists too; I don't have vatican mania and know that Ortodoxy can be as antisemitic as other becouse Jews were always presecuted just like non comformist christians were. Jews must be loyal to Israel only as other havens for them like Spain, Prussia and Poland turned to be deathtaps for them so the'll be prosecuted in USA in future. I'm pro Serbian becouse they're slavic, christian and fought against german nazis in WWII as they're fighting muslim nazis now.
BTW I'm christian first, Polish second, Slavic third and lastly European which is artificial term. I'm closer to Americans or Brazilians or even Israelis than Turks living in Europe even if they're white.
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Ortodoxy can be as antisemitic as other
Serbs what do you think about this one?
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Quote from: Ultra Requete
That's the best post I read in all this thread; I'm with you on christianity I don't like Russia's rulers, but germans, british and french goverments and ukrainian nationalists too; I don't have vatican mania and know that Ortodoxy can be as antisemitic as other becouse Jews were always presecuted just like non comformist christians were. Jews must be loyal to Israel only as other havens for them like Spain, Prussia and Poland turned to be deathtaps for them so the'll be prosecuted in USA in future. I'm pro Serbian becouse they're slavic, christian and fought against german nazis in WWII as they're fighting muslim nazis now.
BTW I'm christian first, Polish second, Slavic third and lastly European which is artificial term. I'm closer to Americans or Brazilians or even Israelis than Turks living in Europe even if they're white.
Thank you Ultra Requete!
I believe that our first calling is our relationship with and worship of G-d!
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Ortodoxy can be as antisemitic as other
Serbs what do you think of this one?
Guys, lets got get precious or petty over statements like this one!
We have to admit to ourselves that there have been many incidents in history and Church history where people calling themselves "Christians" have been guilty of being anti-semites! - It's true!!
Certain groupings of "Christians" during WWII were guilty of anti-semite acts, also during the crusades!
Martin Luther of the Lutheran denomination (seen as the father of Protestantism) was an anti-semite!
Just remember that Christianity in its truth and purity is NEVER anti-semitic!
There could Never have been Christianity without the Jewish nation! Everything we have as Christians is because of the Jewish nation!
Jesus is Jewish, the disciples were Jewish, the Apostle Paul who wrote 2 thirds of the New Testament was Jewish!
Without Judaism there is no Christianity!
Anyone who claims to be a Christian but is an anti-semite is NOT a Christian!
All who serve, worship and fear G-d,accept Jesus as the son and accept the Holy scriptures - New Testament And Tanach and seek to live by the scriptures is a Christian no matter which Christian denomination they are a part of or not a part of!
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To cut a long story short...Orthodox Church teaches us and ALL Holy Fathers of Eastern Orthodox Church that THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE CHURCH AND ONLY ONE TRUE CHRISTIANITY!
You can study Christianity from all possible aspects but ONLY those people who reached THEOSIS can interpret the Bible and Christ's teachings! For God's sake, Bible is not just an ordinary book, you cannot interpret the way you want! and it is NOT SIMPLE! :o
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JelenaSrb, I respect your opinion but cannot agree with this. You cannot possibly think that you as an Orthodox Christian are the only Christians! That is simply ridiculous!
I NEVER said the Bible is a "simple" book in that it is to be taken lightly or not respected as the Holy scriptures and truly the word of G-d! The Bible is to be honoured and treated as Holy, but believe me I did not say it can be interpreted in any way you want!
I am an ordained minister and I have studied Theology, I do not take the scriptures lightly - never would I do that, but people who claim to be Christians MUST read and study the Bible, it is not just for a Priest to read, all Christians must read and know the Bible. It Speaks to you, it was written as the message from G-d to ALL his people not just a Priest.
Sure, those who have reached THEOSIS could be considered "experts" and in a sense guardians of scripture, they give guidance and teaching to make sure scripture is understood correctly by their guidance. PLEASE read the scriptures it is SO IMPORTANT that Christians know the scriptures. It is G-d's manual for how He requires us to live and please Him!
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This is good news, Serbs deserve to get visas for any country.
SERBS = HEROES.
TO HELL WITH ALBANIAN NAZI INVADING PIGS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism
YOu may want to note that there is more neo nazi groups in Serbia today than Albania. Once again, I just don't think we should praise one country until we learn more about them. Why do Serbians embrace groups of peopel that butchered them in the past? And as I recall, there is no where in history that shows Albanians as Nazis.. It was the Croats and Bosnians who were part of the nazi party. Grand Mufti was a Bosnian, not an Albanian, like most people think.
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This is good news, Serbs deserve to get visas for any country.
SERBS = HEROES.
TO HELL WITH ALBANIAN NAZI INVADING PIGS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism
YOu may want to note that there is more neo nazi groups in Serbia today than Albania. Once again, I just don't think we should praise one country until we learn more about them. Why do Serbians embrace groups of peopel that butchered them in the past? And as I recall, there is no where in history that shows Albanians as Nazis.. It was the Croats and Bosnians who were part of the nazi party. Grand Mufti was a Bosnian, not an Albanian, like most people think.
Grand mufti was palestinian not bosnian, and he raised two SS divisions for shitler one bosnian, one albanian. I agree with you about Russia.
http://www.sullivan-county.com/immigration/nazi_arab.htm
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JelenaSrb, I respect your opinion but cannot agree with this. You cannot possibly think that you as an Orthodox Christian are the only Christians! That is simply ridiculous!
I NEVER said the Bible is a "simple" book in that it is to be taken lightly or not respected as the Holy scriptures and truly the word of G-d! The Bible is to be honoured and treated as Holy, but believe me I did not say it can be interpreted in any way you want!
I am an ordained minister and I have studied Theology, I do not take the scriptures lightly - never would I do that, but people who claim to be Christians MUST read and study the Bible, it is not just for a Priest to read, all Christians must read and know the Bible. It Speaks to you, it was written as the message from G-d to ALL his people not just a Priest.
Sure, those who have reached THEOSIS could be considered "experts" and in a sense guardians of scripture, they give guidance and teaching to make sure scripture is understood correctly by their guidance. PLEASE read the scriptures it is SO IMPORTANT that Christians know the scriptures. It is G-d's manual for how He requires us to live and please Him!
I'm not saying christians should not read the Bible or study theology! Where did I say that? I'm talikng about the INTERPRETATION of God's words which are not so easy to understand in the right way! Unfortunately, everyone interprets the way he or she wants and that is why there are so many sects!
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You are absolutely right! There are so many sects and cults due to incorrect interpretation. I think you and I are then on the same page.
What we Christians need most is to stand in unity against the enemies of G-d and His people!
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Yeah, then we should fight against satan and demons! :)
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Yes! We shall win!
Let G_d arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him. (Psalm 68:1)
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This is good news, Serbs deserve to get visas for any country.
SERBS = HEROES.
TO HELL WITH ALBANIAN NAZI INVADING PIGS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism
YOu may want to note that there is more neo nazi groups in Serbia today than Albania. Once again, I just don't think we should praise one country until we learn more about them. Why do Serbians embrace groups of peopel that butchered them in the past? And as I recall, there is no where in history that shows Albanians as Nazis.. It was the Croats and Bosnians who were part of the nazi party. Grand Mufti was a Bosnian, not an Albanian, like most people think.
This comments shows your ignorance!! You can't judge all Serbs because of some neo nazi cockroaches!!! By the way Western betrayal of Serbs is the result of such groups!!!!!!
I will support Serb people until their territory is returned and people like you can't stop me.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism
YOu may want to note that there is more neo nazi groups in Serbia today than Albania. Once again, I just don't think we should praise one country until we learn more about them. Why do Serbians embrace groups of peopel that butchered them in the past? And as I recall, there is no where in history that shows Albanians as Nazis.. It was the Croats and Bosnians who were part of the nazi party. Grand Mufti was a Bosnian, not an Albanian, like most people think.
It's not because you have "blood and Honnour" existing in Serbia that they are Serbs. For info, Belgrade and all towns in todays Serbia still is very multiethnic, even if it is not that obvious as it is in most of the western European towns. However, those are very small minorities, mostly result of the betrayal of Serbs by western countries for which they felt humiliated. In this betrayal predominated ugly people such as Madelaine Albright, Bernard Kouchner, etc... who appeared to be Jews. Those people identified them as Jews, and hating those awful individuals in power, they transfered their hate on all the people.
This is of course a wrong, nasty policy, but what can you expect from individuals who need psychiatric help more than anything else? Anyway, I of course condemn anyone, whoever he might be including a Serb, who expresses racism or hurts on any non-Serb, as I condemn also the neonazi behaviour of neo-oustachi and nazi albanians on Serbs and other minorities. The difference is in tradition: croatians, albanians bosnian muslim have a history of hate wht is different of them: Serbs, Jews, Roms, anyone who might be a different neighbour.
At last, let me cure your misinformation about albanian nazi past:
Falsifying History: The Holocaust and Greater Albania
By Carl K. Savich
History is in many ways a myth we create for ourselves. History is constantly falsified to justify wars and territorial claims. Albanian apologists have falsified the role Albania played in the Holocaust to justify an illegal US/NATO war against Serbia and to allow for the creation of a Greater Albania that would include the Serbian province of Kosovo-Metohija.
The Jewish victims of the Holocaust in Albania are estimated at 591 from 1941 to 1944, when a Greater Albania was sponsored by Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini. There were 33 known families of Albanian Jews living in pre-war Albania. The largest Jewish community consisted of 15 Jewish families living in Vlora. According to the 1930 census, there were 204 Jews living in Albania. At the Wannsee Conference in 1942, when the Final Solution was organized, the total Jewish population of Albania was listed as 200 Jews. By 1939 there were Jewish refugees from Germany and Austria.
The two factors that explain why more Jews in Albania were not killed are that Albania was under Italian control and Albania had a very small Jewish population. Italian forces in Albania rejected the Final Solution as "the German disease" and did not enforce anti-Jewish measures. This is why Albanian Jews were "rescued" in Albania, not because of anything the Albanians did themselves. There was no history of ideological anti-Semitism in Albania. But this was true of every country in the Balkans. A history of anti-Semitism did not exist in Greece, Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia-Hercegovina, Hungary, or Romania. So Albania was not unique in this regard in any way. The small number of Jews in Albania also played a key role in why they were not killed. During the Italian occupation, they were able to disperse and blend in the general population. When Germany occupied Albania in 1943, the Jewish population was already beyond reach.
What role did Albania play in the Holocaust? Albanian apologists maintain that no Jews were killed in Albania during the Holocaust. Is this accurate? What is the context of this statement? Albanian apologists have consciously and methodically falsified the Albanian role in the Holocaust. The way this was done was to totally suppress the fact that Kosovo-Metohija was a part of Albania from 1941 to 1944. Also left out is the fact that a Greater Albania was in fact created that included not only Kosovo-Metohija, Kosova in the Greater Albania ideology, but southern Serbian territory, territory in southern Montenegro, and western Macedonia, or Illirida. Albanian apologists distort history by implying that it was Albanians that rescued Jews. But in fact it was the Italian occupation forces that opposed the Final Solution and who rescued Jews. Another falsification is the omission of the role played by Xhafer Deva, a Kosovar Albanian Muslim, in the Greater Albanian state and in the Holocaust.
Albanian apologists falsify the history of the Holocaust by suppressing the fact that it was Adolf Hitler who first created a Greater Albania that included the Serbian province of Kosovo-Metohija. They assiduously cover-up the fact that it was Adolf Hitler who set the precedent for an "independent" Kosova, an ethnically pure Albanian Kosova. Albanian apologists have carefully suppressed and deleted this fact.
Rescue in Albania by Harvey Sarner was published in book form in 1997 just in time for the Kosovo conflict and the start of the KLA terrorism campaign sponsored by the US/EU/NATO. It began being used as a propaganda tract immediately. The book was to pave the way for US military intervention in Serbia. It was first published as a booklet in 1992 as "The Jews of Albania". It was released following the aliyah or emigration of the entire Jewish population out of Albania. They settled in Tel Aviv and other towns and cities in Israel. Little is revealed about the author. This throws up red flags. But Sarner did play a major role in the emigration of Albanian Jews to Israel. So the publication initially was payback or a goodwill gesture from Sarner for the emigration out of Albania to Israel. Israel got 300 new citizens and Albania got the pamphlet "The Jews of Albania", a thank you note.
Who is Harvey Sarner? He is a third generation American of Jewish-Polish descent. Sarner is a retired American attorney. He is not a historian. The book is essentially a hack job. Sarner has paid or "subsidized" visits to Israel of "Righteous Gentiles". He has written another book, General Anders and the Soldiers of the Second Polish Corps in 1997. He is the chairman of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Jewish Foundation for Christian Rescuers. He has worked with Jews in Poland, Ukraine, and Albania. His primary focus is on Jewish emigration to Israel and in documenting those non-Jews who have "rescued" Jews during the Holocaust.
Rescue in Albania is nothing more than a thinly-veiled propaganda tract. His subtitle is: "One Hundred Percent of Jews in Albania Rescued from Holocaust." The book features an Albanian and Israeli flag on the cover. Van Christo, the Albanian president of the Frosina Foundation, has used the book for "fund raising purposes" to obtain money for the separatist campaign in Kosovo. Lobby money can buy you a lot of lies. That is the American way. And Sarner knows that.
In this propaganda tract, Sarner says nothing about the 21st SS Division "Skanderbeg", made up primarily of Kosovar Muslim recruits, nothing about the genocide committed by Albanians against the Serbian and Jewish populations of Kosovo and Bosnia-Hercegovina, and Croatia. He says nothing about the destruction of Serbian Orthodox churches and cathedrals in Kosovo. He says nothing about the murder of Serbian Orthodox priests. Is it ignorance? It is willful ignorance. He suppresses and deletes anything negative about Albania and Albanians. A fundamental aspect of propaganda is that it is one-sided, subjective, and tells only half the story. Under this definition, Rescue in Albania is pure propaganda.
In October, 1997, the Albanian American Civic League (AACL, Lobbi Shqiptar), headed by Joe DioGuardi, began a systematic campaign to use the book by Sarner as a propaganda tool in the upcoming Kosovo separatist/terrorist war. The AACL had been founded in 1989 by DioGuardi to revive the Greater Albania ideology established by the 1878 First League of Prizren. In 1943, Nazi Germany re-established the dormant Greater Albania ideology or program by establishing the Second League of Prizren under Xhafer Deva.
Continued on: http://www.pogledi.co.yu/english/hga.php (http://www.pogledi.co.yu/english/hga.php)
Also:
Kosovo's Nazi Past: The Untold Story
By Carl Savich
1. Introduction: Genocide in Kosovo
During World War II and the Holocaust, Kosovar Albanians killed 10,000 Kosovo Serbs and expelled 100,000. Kosovo-Metohija was made a part of a Greater Albania by Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini. Hitler and Mussolini realized the Greater Albania ideology established by the 1878 League of Prizren. Albanian-settled areas of the Balkans---Kosovo-Metohija, western Macedonia, southern Montenegro---were incorporated in a Greater Albania. The Greater Albania Kosovar Albanian nationalist movement murdered Kosovo Serb civilians and took over their lands and houses. Kosovo Serb women were raped. Kosovo Serb Orthodox priests were arrested, tortured, and murdered. Serbian Orthodox churches and monasteries were attacked and destroyed. Serbian monuments, cemeteries, and gravestones were desecrated and demolished. The Greater Albania nationalist movement formed the Balli Kombetar, the Albanian Kosovo Committee, and the Skanderbeg Nazi SS Division, two-thirds of whose members were Kosovar Albanian Muslims. Kosovar Albanian Muslims played a major role in the Holocaust, the murder of European Jews. Kosovar Albanian Nazi SS troops participated in the roundup of Kosovo Jews who were later killed at Bergen-Belsen. What occurred in Kosovo during World War II was genocide. The mainstream accounts of World War II have censored and covered up the Kosovar Albanian role in the genocide against Kosovo Serbs and the role of Kosovar Albanians in the Holocaust. The Nazi past of Kosovo remains an untold story.
2. Fascist Italy and Kosovo
Albania was peremptorily and hurriedly recognized as an independent nation by the Great Powers in 1912 as a reaction to the First Balkan War to prevent Serbia from acquiring access to the Adriatic Sea and to prevent Montenegro from annexing Albanian territory settled by Montenegrins. Albania had never existed as a united and independent nation before.
The London Peace Conference of July 29, 1913 established international recognition of Kosovo as part of Serbia and also recognized the borders of Albania as an independent state. Under the April 26, 1915 Treaty of London, the Allied Powers sought to induce Italy under prime minister Antonio Salandra to enter World War I on the side of the Allies by granting Italy Albanian territory as well as German-settled territory from Austria, the Southern Tyrol, and the Dalmatian coast. Under the Treaty, Italy was granted "sovereignty" over the major Albanian port of Valona, the island of Saseno, and the surrounding territory.
Italy thus had expansionist goals in Albania and the Dalmatian coast of Yugoslavia. On October 31, 1922, King Victor Emmanuel III asked fascist political leader Benito Mussolini to come to Rome to form a new government after fascist leaders marched on Rome demanding that power be given to them. Mussolini became prime minister of a coalition government and established a fascist regime in Italy. In May, 1925, the new fascist Italian government signed a treaty with Albania that granted Italy the right to exploit the mineral resources in Albania, established the Albanian National Bank under Italian control, and gave Italian shipping companies a monopoly.
On December 13, 1924, Ahmed Beg Zogu, who was backed by Yugoslavia, seized power in Albania by overthrowing the regime of Fan Noli. On January 31, 1925, Zogu was elected president of Albania for a seven year term. In 1928, Zogu established a monarchy and emerged as King Zog I, "the King of the Albanians".
Benito Mussolini's fascist regime in Italy sought economic and political control of Albania and to establish a sphere of influence in the Adriatic Sea region throughout the 1920s and 1930s.
By 1937, Count Galeazzo Ciano, the Italian foreign minister, sought to bring Albania under direct Italian control. Ciano orchestrated the Italian foreign policy with regard to Albania in particular and the Balkans in general.
Following World War I, Italy and Albania supported Albanian terrorist activity against Yugoslavia, particularly the kachak guerrillas who were based in Albania but operated in Kosovo and Metohija. The kachak guerrillas engaged in a terrorist war against Yugoslavia to make Kosovo a part of Albania. The kachak movement was thus a secessionist conflict, a conflict to change the borders of Yugoslavia and Serbia and Montenegro. The Serbian-Albanian conflict in Kosovo-Metohija was always motivated by secession, about making Kosovo a part of Albania. This was the Greater Albania nationalist ideology established by the 1878 League of Prizren. Because Albania itself was politically, economically, and militarily weak and powerless, however, this nationalist ideology meant, in practical terms, not the takeover of Kosovo by Tirana by military force, but the takeover of Kosovo by Kosovar Albanians who would make Kosovo an Albanian land. Whether Kosova was formally or legally united to Albania proper was moot and irrelevant. What was foremost was to establish ethnic Albanian control of the Kosovo region. When all the Orthodox Serbs had been killed or expelled from Kosovo and their Orthodox churches and cemeteries destroyed, the practical realization of a Greater Albania would result, whether legally recognized or not. In other words, what Albanian nationalists sought was a Kosovo taken over by ethnic Albanian Muslims who would expel the Serbian Orthodox and other non-Albanian populations and eradicate any non-Albanian cultural or religious monuments or symbols. It entailed the total and complete extermination and eradication of any non-Albanian population or culture or religion in Kosovo. The Greater Albania nationalist ideology presupposed genocide, biological and cultural and religious.
Continued on: http://www.pogledi.co.yu/english/cs1.php (http://www.pogledi.co.yu/english/cs1.php)
Genocide in Kosovo. Albanian Skenderbeg Division
by Carl K. Savich
The historical and political precedents for the creation of a greater Sqiperia or Greater Albania was set during World War II when the Kosovo and Metohija regions along with territory Southwest of lake Skutari from Montenegro and the western region of Southern Serbia, or Juzna Srbija (now part of Macedonija), were annexed to Albania by the Axis powers led by Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, under a plan devised by Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler to dismember and to destroy the Serbian Nation and people, which the Germans and Italians perceived as the main threat to the axis powers and to the Third Reich in the Balkan.
On April 7, 1939, Italian troops invaded and occupied Albania forcing the Albanian ruler King Zog I Ahmed Bey Zogu, to flee to Greece. Italy formally annexed into the Kingdom of Italy under the Italian king Victor Immanuel and established a military government and viceroy. The Italian began a program to colonize the country when thousands of settlers emigrated to Albania. An Albanian Fascist Party was established with Albanian Black skirts based on Italian models. The Albanian Army consisted of three infantry brigades of 12 000 men.
On October 28 1940, Italy invaded Greece from Albania with 10 Italian divisions and the Albanian Army but were driven back.
Germany sought to assist the Italian-Albanian offensive by operation Alpine Violet, a plan to move a corps of tree German mountain divisions to Albania by air and sea. Instead German built up a heavy concentration of the German Twelfth Army on the northwest Greek Border with Bulgaria, from where the German invasion was launched.
On April 6, 1941, Nazi Germany and the axis powers invaded Yugoslavia, Operation Punishment, and Greece forcing the capitulation of Yugoslavia on the 17th, and Greece on the 23rd. Yugoslavia was subsequently occupied and dismembered. The Axis powers established a greater Albania or greater Shqiperia at the expense of Serbia and Montenegro. Territory from Montenegro was annexed to Greater Albania. From Serbia, the Kosovo and Metohija were ceded to greater Albania, along with the western part of Southern Serbia (Juzna Srbija), now part of Macedonia, an area which was part of Stara Srbija (Ancient Old Serbia). This Kosovo-metohija region and the surrounding territory annexed to Greater Albania was called "New Albania".
To create an ethnically pure Shqiptar Kosovo, which Albanian called "Kosova", the Shqiptari (Albanians) launched a widescale campaigns of ethnic cleansing and genocide. Ethnic Serbs in the Kosovo-Metohija regions were massacred, and their homes were burned, and survivors were brutally driven out and expelled in policy of ethnic cleansing and genocide.
The Balli Kombetar (BK or National Union) was an Albanian nationalist group led by Midhat Fresheri and Ali Klissura whose political objective was to in incorporate Kosovo-Metohija into a Greater Albania and to ethnically cleanse the region of Orthodox Serbs
The Abanian Committee of Kosovo organized massive campaigns of ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Orthodox Serbian inhabitants of Kosovo- Metohuja. A contemporary report described the ethnic cleansing and genocide of Serbs as follows:
Armed with material supplied by the Italians, the Albanians hurled themselves against helpless settlers in their homes and villages. According to the most reliable sources, the Albanian burned many Serbian settlements, killing some of the people and driving out others who escaped to the mountains. At present other Serbian settlement are being attacked and the property of individuals and of communities is either being confiscated or destroyed. It is not possible to ascertain at the present time the exact number of victims of those atrocities, but it may be estimated that at least between 30.000 and 40.000 perished.
Bedri Pejani, the Muslim leader of the Albanian National committee, called for the extermination of Ortodox Serbian Cristians in Kosovo Metohija and for a union of a Greater Albania with Bosnia and Herzegovina and the Rashka (Sandzak) region of Serbia, into a great Islamic state. The grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin El Husseini was presented to Pejani a plan which he approved as a being in the interest of Islam. The Germans however rejected the plan.
On September 3, 1943, Italy capitulated by signing an armistice with the Allies. The German were now forced to occupy Albania with the collapse of the Italian forces. The Germans sent the 100th Jaeger Division from Greece and the 297th Infantry Division from Serbia and the German 1st Mountain Division to occupy Albania. These troops were organized into the XXI Mountain Corps which was under the command of General Paul Bader.
Continued on: http://www.pogledi.co.yu/english/asd1.php (http://www.pogledi.co.yu/english/asd1.php)
And also some pictures:
(http://www.pogledi.co.yu/english/img/cs/1.jpg)
Skanderbeg SS Division arm patch showingthe Albanian national flag, the same arm patch of the KLA 50 yers later.
(http://www.pogledi.co.yu/english/img/cs/3.jpg)
Skanderbeg cuff title.
(http://www.pogledi.co.yu/english/img/cs/4.jpg)
Skanderbeg band.
(http://www.pogledi.co.yu/english/index_clip_image007.jpg)
Albanian Muslims murder Kosovo Serbian civilians in streets in 1941 after Adolf Hitler granted them "independence".
(http://www.pogledi.co.yu/english/index_clip_image004.jpg)
Muslim Albanian Nazi slaying a priest in Kosovo with dull knife during WWII.
(http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/071_files/001.jpg)
Kosovo Albanians welcome Nazi occupation with Nazi swastika flags and Albanian flags.
(http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/071_files/003.jpg)
Armed Albanian gendarmes or police under fascist-Nazi control walk in front of Nazi swastikas on walls above the fascist "V" symbol with a mosque in the background.
(http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/071_files/005.jpg)
An Albanian fascist-Nazi Ushtar or gendarme escorting a group of Albanian Muslim hodzas or clerics. He is wearing the goat's head Skanderbeg symbol on his cap, the emblem of the fascist-Nazi security forces in Greater Albania.
(http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/071_files/006.jpg)
Gunther Hausding, the Gestapo chief in Kosovska Mitrovica.
(http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/071_files/008.jpg)
Inmates in the Preza internment camp in Albania where Kosovo Jews were interned, 1942.
Solution in Kosovo
The Skanderbeg Division also contributed to the Final Solution, playing an important role in the genocide of Kosovo Jews. There was a Jewish presence in Kosovo. Based on 1931 population statistics for Yugoslavia, there were a total of 488 Jews in Kosovo-Metohija: 373 in Pristina, 109 in Kosovska Mitrovica, and 6 in Djakovica. In Pristina, the Beth Israel synagogue had been built in 1897. In Kosovo, the Skanderbeg Division rounded up the 281 Jews who were sent to the camp at Pristina and later to Bergen Belsen where they were killed.
The first operation of the Skanderbeg Nazi SS Division was to round-up 400 Kosovo Jews in Pristina on May 14, 1944. From May to June, 1944, Skanderbeg rounded-up 519 Kosovo Serbs and Jews. Haim Solomon, a Kosovo Jew from Lipljan, described how he was apprehended by the Skanderbeg SS Division:
I was captured on May 14, 1944 by troops of the SS division “Skanderbeg” which was made up of Albanian soldiers, but whose officers were German. All of us in Lipljan were captured only after a few hours after the Jews of Pristina were rounded up. From Pristina we were transported to the prison in Kosovska Mitrovica where we stayed for three weeks.
Solomon was sent to the Bergen Belsen concentration camp. On April 23, 1945 he was freed by advancing Soviet troops when prisoners from the camp were transported by rail to Czechoslovakia.
Josip Levi, a Kosovo Jew from Pristina, recalled how he was captured by the Skanderbeg division:
They captured us on the night between May 13 and 14. The round-up of us Jews in 1944 in Pristina began in the night, exactly at midnight, and lasted until eight the next day…Our round-up was conducted by the SS division “Skanderbeg” which consisted of Albanians from Kosovo and Metohija, particularly from Drenica, but the officers were German. We were captured based on addresses which the Germans had received from the Albanian fascist civil administration. In Pristina we were put in a “G” wagon, a cattle wagon, and sent to the “Sajmisate” prison in Zemun, which was under the control of “SD” police, but where the Ustasha was in charge of the administration and security.
Levi was sent to Bergen Belsen. He survived and was able return to Pristina.
Genocide against Kosovo Serbs
The ethnic cleansing and genocide committed against the Kosovo Serbs is described by Bernd Fischer as follows:
The wholesale expulsion of Serbs by the Albanians created special problems for the occupation, however, since the Serbs had performed important functions in Kosova. The Serbs had run most of the businesses, the mills, the tanneries, and the public utilities. Once the Serbs had gone, there were no pharmacists in Kosova. Serbian peasants, somewhat more technologically progressive than their Albanian counterparts, were responsible for much of the surplus agricultural production for which Kosova was so useful.
Bedri Pejani, the president of the Nazi-created Second League of Prizren, a revival of the ideology of Greater Albania, wanted 150,000 weapons from the German forces to be used to kill and drive out the remaining Serbian population in Kosovo-Metohija. The expulsion of Serbs is described as follows by Fischer:
By April 1944, German documents tell us, 40,000 Serbs had been forced to leave, and Neubacher anticipated that the Germans might have to deal with as many as 150,000 Serbs leaving Kosovo.
The policy of genocide against the Kosovo Serbian population had been officially announced in June, 1942, by Albanian Muslim Mustafa Kruja, the fascist Prime Minister of Greater Albania:
The Serbian population of Kosovo should be removed as soon as possible. Serbian settlers should be killed.
Albanian Gendarmerie under Nazi Germany
In August, the DGA office and its command were integrated into the Higher SS and Police Leader “Albania” under the command of SS Gruppenfuehrer und Generalleutnant der Waffen SS Josef Fitzhum or Fitzthum. SS Oberfuehrer Karl Gstottenbauer of the German Consular Office in Tirana was also to be attached to the HSSPF command. Fitzthum reorganized the Albanian Gendarmerie and the Army. By April, 1944, the total Albanian forces raised were two Jaeger light infantry regiments and four militia battalions.
The Albanian Order of Battle was as follows:
1. Albanian Jaeger Regiment 1
2. Albanian Jaeger Regiment 4
3. Albanian Militia Battalion “Pec”
4. Albanian Militia Battalion “Pristina”
5. Albanian Militia Battalion “Prizren”
6. Albanian Militia Battalion “Tetovo”
Three of the battalions were set up in Kosovo-Metohija, while the fourth was set up in Macedonia, known as Illirida in the Greater Albania ideology. According to German military sources, these formations were under the German Order Police or Orpo and were fighting the guerrillas. These four militia battalions were made up of 2,000 men and were under the command of Hauptmann der Schutzpolizei Spruny.
The Skanderbeg Waffen SS Division was also being formed with recruits from Kosovo and central and northern Albania. The Balli Kombetar (Shqip, National Front) also provided men for this Nazi SS Division. Between July 14 and 30, 1944, the 1st and 2nd Battalion/1st Regiment and its 1st battalion/ 2nd Regiment performed field maneuvers south of Berane in Montenegro and near Gusinje. The four militia battalions also participated in these maneuvers as did the 14th Mountain Regiment of the Prinz Eugen Division.
General Gustav von Myrdacz (1874-1945), a former Austrian officer who commanded the pre-World War II Albanian Army under Zog, was put in charge of the reorganized Albanian security police, but was captured by Communist guerrillas. Myrdacz was the liaison officer between the Albanian Army and the XXI Army Corps. He joined the Albanian Army in 1921 and became chief of staff by 1925. He had been an engineer-officer on the staff of the Austrian Army. He was a highly decorated military officer. He was awarded four Austrian orders, one Turkish war decoration, and a Grand Cordon of Skanderbeg Order from the Albanian government. During World War I, he had been the chief of staff of the XIVth division and had commanded a regiment at Tonale. He had been the chief of staff of the military commander in Sarajevo. He was involved in the engagements at Isonzo and Piave in 1917. After Myrdacz was captured, Albanian General Prenk Previsi was put in his place.
Once it became clear that Nazi Germany would lose the war, the Albanian Gendarmerie and militia battalions began deserting and switching sides.
The German occupation forces were better able to use the Albanian security and military forces than the Italians. German occupation forces were able to integrate Albanian forces into their security and military forces. Moreover, German policy was able to fully exploit the Albanian nationalist and political objective to achieve a Greater or Ethnic Albania first envisioned and enunciated by the 1878 League of Prizren. Nazi Germany revived the League of Prizren in 1943. The key to the Nazi occupation was to maintain the collaboration of the Balli Kombetar and the Albanian population by advocating a Greater Albania that would include Kosovo-Metohija. This was the crux to Nazi policy. Kosovo was the key.
(http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/071_files/014.jpg)
The leaders of the Nazi-fascist collaborationist Balli Kombetar (BK): From left, Ekrem Peshkopi, Vasil Andoni, Midhat Frasheri, Ali Klissura, Koco Muca.
Greater Albania Realized
There was widespread Albanian popular support for the Nazi occupation regime. Nazi Germany and Adolf Hitler allowed Albanian nationalists to create a Greater or Ethnic Albania. This had been an unrealized goal of Albanian nationalism since the League of Prizren in 1878. Greater Albania was realized by Nazi Germany. Kosovo was thus crucial in Nazi policy. Making Kosovo a part of Greater Albania was crucial to maintain the Nazi German occupation.
The Nazi realization of Greater Albania had implications and political repercussions for the future status of Kosovo. Albanian ultra-nationalists had a precedent and a model for Greater Albania. Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler showed them how to realize a Greater Albania. The history of a Greater Albania from 1941 to 1945 under Nazi Germany is covered-up and censored in the US and the so-called West. Consequently, it is not known that Kosovo was “independent” under Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler. Kosovo was annexed to a Greater Albania from 1941 to 1945.
Albanian popular support for fascism and Nazism was widespread. Nazi Germany exploited the Greater Albania nationalist ideology to gain popular support for the Nazi German occupation of Kosovo. Bernd Fischer noted that “numerous Allied sources give evidence of widespread support for the Germans and their government. In the north and northeast support was widespread.” The Nazi creation of a Greater Albania that incorporated Kosovo-Metohija would have future political repercussions and implications.
Bibliography
Fischer, Bernd Jurgen. Albania at War, 1939-1945. West Lafayette, IN: Purdue University Press, 1999.
Ivanov, Pavle Dzeletovic. Jevreji Kosova i Metohije. Beograd: Panpublik, 1988.
Kane, Steve. “The 21st SS Mountain Division”. Siegrunen. Volume 36. October-December 1984.
Munoz, Antonio, ed. The East Came West. NY: Axis Europa Books, 2001.
Trye, Rex. Mussolini’s Soldiers. Shrewsbury, UK: Airlife, 1995.
The entire text on: http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/071.shtml (http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/071.shtml)
I now hope that you're better informed.
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This is good news, Serbs deserve to get visas for any country.
SERBS = HEROES.
TO HELL WITH ALBANIAN NAZI INVADING PIGS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism
YOu may want to note that there is more neo nazi groups in Serbia today than Albania. Once again, I just don't think we should praise one country until we learn more about them. Why do Serbians embrace groups of peopel that butchered them in the past? And as I recall, there is no where in history that shows Albanians as Nazis.. It was the Croats and Bosnians who were part of the nazi party. Grand Mufti was a Bosnian, not an Albanian, like most people think.
Like someone said earlier, the small group of nazi-fascists in Serbia does not reflect the overall sentiment of Serbia. You have to keep in mind the fallout that occured as a result of Clintons action in the Balkans.
The minority fascists in Serbia is more a symbolic, the albanians are the ones who are vehemently and subversively nazi-facsists. If anything the albanians, kosovars, croatians are antagonizers trying to push the West into a greater war. This is a classic muzlim tactic, create a lie of mythical porportions, antagonize your enemy, play the vicitm until a more powerful 'saviour' comes along, relay the so-called atrocities and blow them out of porportion too, provoke your enemy when no one is looking. The bigger power attacks, repeat until chaos ensues.
Is it any surprised that adolfo shitler, may his name be erased was in bed with the muzlimz and the catholic church? His mom was a devout catholic. His philosophy for starting wars bear a striking resemblence to the muzlimz
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism
YOu may want to note that there is more neo nazi groups in Serbia today than Albania. Once again, I just don't think we should praise one country until we learn more about them. Why do Serbians embrace groups of peopel that butchered them in the past? And as I recall, there is no where in history that shows Albanians as Nazis.. It was the Croats and Bosnians who were part of the nazi party. Grand Mufti was a Bosnian, not an Albanian, like most people think.
Did you read anything about Serbian history and history in general?
You know very good to judge a situation without being enough informed!
First of all let me remind you that we Serbs said no to Hitler in 1941!
That is in contradiction to the policy of the Croatians, Bosnians and the Albanians because those animals started to fanatically support Hitler and participate in the genocide against the Serbs and the Jews.
You want to say that a so called skinhead organization which has a very small number of following in Serbia is connected with the Serbian state or nation?
May I remind you that some Jews from the Clinton administration were organizing and conducting genocide alongside with the fascists from Croatia, Bosnia and Albania against the Serbs who defendant them during WW2?
Is it reasonable to put all the Jews in the same context together with those scum? I do not think so.
If you are claiming that Albanians were not and today are not Nazi oriented then please read very well the article which is provided by "saintSava"!
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Just remember that Christianity in its truth and purity is NEVER anti-semitic!
There could Never have been Christianity without the Jewish nation! Everything we have as Christians is because of the Jewish nation!
Look, we all know that anti Semitism is not accepted in Christianity.
All serious Christians know that.
I will repeat again the church fathers always learned us that anti Semitism has it's roots coming from sources outside the church.
But I see post from your side that Orthodoxism was just like the Vatican involved with anti Semitism. That is a lie. That is in struggle with historical facts and a insult toward every Serb.
You can not say that the heads of the Orthodox church had the same attitude towards the Jews as the Vatican's.
That is a anti Serbian statement.
Through that lie, which was also used by Nazis in 1941 and by the today's neo Nazis like the NATO and the EU, the anti Orthodox block wants to equal the dark history of the Vatican with the history of the Orthodox church. I am repeating again! The heads of the Orthodox church and the Orthodox church in general did not commit anti Semitism!
The individuals who were Orthodox on paper do not represent the whole Orthodox civilization.
I hope that we can solve this (Orthodoxism & Roman Catholicsm = equal) together like civilized people with out attacking each others!
I understand that the members of the Catholic church have a complex towards the Orthodox church which in contradiction to the Roman church did not prepared genocide, participated in inquisitions and forsly converted people to their religion.
Hating eastern Orthodox Christian civilization will not solve anything!
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Everything we have as Christians is because of the Jewish nation!
I disagree with your statement.
Christianity has Jewish roots, and roots in the old European pagan religions.
It is in fact a religion that has a strong influence from the Roman Empire, (that split up in two parts; Rome & Constantinopel/Byzantium; hence the division between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches) that incorporated German/Slavic/Celtic elements.
Here in Flanders, the Church has incorporated all the traditions of the Druids. That's the reason we make the best beers in the world.
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Saint Sava, thank you for all that info, I feel for your people.
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Everything we have as Christians is because of the Jewish nation!
I disagree with your statement.
Christianity has Jewish roots, and roots in the old European pagan religions.
It is in fact a religion that has a strong influence from the Roman Empire, (that split up in two parts; Rome & Constantinopel/Byzantium; hence the division between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches) that incorporated German/Slavic/Celtic elements.
Here in Flanders, the Church has incorporated all the traditions of the Druids. That's the reason we make the best beers in the world.
Well said, Ambiorix O0
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Saint Sava, thank you for all that info, I feel for your people.
May those texts and pictures spread the World :'(
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Saint Sava, thank you for all that info, I feel for your people.
May those texts and pictures spread the World :'(
Don't cry my Serb friend, you need to stay focused.
Islam still exists in Serbia, in Serb territory there are muslims going to mosques practising Islam like nothing happened.
Ship muslims off to Albania, and take your people back to Serbia, treat your refugees with respect and stay united. Don't let this EU suicidal moronic propaganda change your minds, the EU is on the side of the turds, they want turds in the EU. You join the EU your nation dies.
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Don't cry my Serb friend, you need to stay focused.
Islam still exists in Serbia, in Serb territory there are muslims going to mosques practising Islam like nothing happened.
Ship muslims off to Albania, and take your people back to Serbia, treat your refugees with respect and stay united. Don't let this EU suicidal moronic propaganda change your minds, the EU is on the side of the turds, they want turds in the EU. You join the EU your nation dies.
What about the Vatican international who wants to expand it's domination towards the east?
Aren't they the real enemy of Serbia?
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Don't cry my Serb friend, you need to stay focused.
Islam still exists in Serbia, in Serb territory there are muslims going to mosques practising Islam like nothing happened.
Ship muslims off to Albania, and take your people back to Serbia, treat your refugees with respect and stay united. Don't let this EU suicidal moronic propaganda change your minds, the EU is on the side of the turds, they want turds in the EU. You join the EU your nation dies.
What about the Vatican international who wants to expand it's domination towards the east?
Aren't they the real enemy of Serbia?
I don't know what the hell you're trying to say on every thread but I hope you aren't hired by ragheaded albanian dreck.
You said that I encourage genocide, HOW? I don't, all I said that muslims of Serbia must leave Serbia because if they don't Serbs will lose more territory is that what you want YES??????? YES OR NO???
If it wasn't for people like you Serbs wouldn't have this problem now.
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Don't cry my Serb friend, you need to stay focused.
Islam still exists in Serbia, in Serb territory there are muslims going to mosques practising Islam like nothing happened.
Ship muslims off to Albania, and take your people back to Serbia, treat your refugees with respect and stay united. Don't let this EU suicidal moronic propaganda change your minds, the EU is on the side of the turds, they want turds in the EU. You join the EU your nation dies.
What about the Vatican international who wants to expand it's domination towards the east?
Aren't they the real enemy of Serbia?
I don't know what the hell you're trying to say on every thread but I hope you aren't hired by ragheaded albanian dreck.
You said that I encourage genocide, HOW? I don't, all I said that muslims of Serbia must leave Serbia because if they don't Serbs will lose more territory is that what you want YES??????? YES OR NO???
If it wasn't for people like you Serbs wouldn't have this problem now.
IslamIsCancer,
I think we have a misunderstanding here,
Dalmacija is saying Orthodox churches didn't encourage in inquisitions or pogroms or genocides.
He surely does not want any muslim to live in the Balkans, or in Europe.
We all want them dead, don't we?
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Ambiorix, look:
Quote from: IslamIsCancer on March 31, 2008, 04:56:28 PM
BALKAN MUSLIMS MUST GO, THEY ARE THE ILLEGAL REMNANTS OF THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE,
like the excrement stains that sticks on the toilet after you flush.
Screw America and Nato, every Nato soldier who took part in killing Serbs must be executed.
****** Then he replies *******
Serbs do not agree with policy of ethnic cleansing, genocide or other Nazi methods!
They are the minority of Serbia!
If the Serbs are fatithfull to their tradition, culture and religion nobody can harm them. As soon as the Serbs start to live outside the principles of the Orthodox Church than will the surrounding nations of Serbia gain control over us!
We must take firts a look at us before we start to attack others.
The Muslims are not the only surrounding nation of Serbia.
I am shure that you know that we have more of them!
******************************************************************
On the one hand he says Serbs should not surrender and other the other hand he accuses me of encouraging genocide which I'm not. If the muslims are invading your territory and you decide to defend yourself it's not a genocide it's a prevention of genocide because muslims will commit genocide against your people.
Killing the invading enemy is never a genocide it's patriotism.
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Ambiorix, look:
Quote from: IslamIsCancer on March 31, 2008, 04:56:28 PM
BALKAN MUSLIMS MUST GO, THEY ARE THE ILLEGAL REMNANTS OF THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE,
like the excrement stains that sticks on the toilet after you flush.
Screw America and Nato, every Nato soldier who took part in killing Serbs must be executed.
****** Then he replies *******
Serbs do not agree with policy of ethnic cleansing, genocide or other Nazi methods!
They are the minority of Serbia!
If the Serbs are fatithfull to their tradition, culture and religion nobody can harm them. As soon as the Serbs start to live outside the principles of the Orthodox Church than will the surrounding nations of Serbia gain control over us!
We must take firts a look at us before we start to attack others.
The Muslims are not the only surrounding nation of Serbia.
I am shure that you know that we have more of them!
******************************************************************
On the one hand he says Serbs should not surrender and other the other hand he accuses me of encouraging genocide which I'm not. If the muslims are invading your territory and you decide to defend yourself it's not a genocide it's a prevention of genocide because muslims will commit genocide against your people.
Killing the invading enemy is never a genocide it's patriotism.
I asked Chaim (ask JTF) about using the same methods that the nazis used against the Jews in the WWII, against muslims in Europe today.
He agreed that there is no problem in destroying evil.
I support a genocide on all muslims in Europe, Israel, USA, Canada, Australia, Russia, (eventually after an 24 h ultimatum for them to leave; although a surprise attack is preferable.)
I disagree with Dalmacija that "ethnical cleansing" is a nazi method in case that Serbs or Israeli use it against muslims, I call it "self-defense".
I disagree with Dalmacije that muslims are a minority in Serbia.
They stole your KOSOVO, parts of Bosnia, together with the Croats.
THEY WILL BE THE MAJORITY IN SERBIA ALSO, BECAUSE SE.RBS REPRODUCE AT A RATE 4 TIMES LOWER THEN MUZZIES.
Therefore, driving out or genociding muslims in the Balkans, taking back KOSOVO, and BYZANTINE, is a religious duty of ALL real Christians, regardless if they happen to be baptized by a Greek, a Russian, a Roman, or a German Church.
NATO (OTAN in French) must be considered SA-TAN
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I 100% agree.
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I 100% agree.
Thank you.
I know it is possible for Christians of all kinds to form a front against their collaborating leaders and the muzzies.
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I asked Chaim (ask JTF) about using the same methods that the nazis used against the Jews in the WWII, against muslims in Europe today.
He agreed that there is no problem in destroying evil.
I support a genocide on all muslims in Europe, Israel, USA, Canada, Australia, Russia, (eventually after an 24 h ultimatum for them to leave; although a surprise attack is preferable.)
I disagree with Dalmacija that "ethnical cleansing" is a nazi method in case that Serbs or Israeli use it against muslims, I call it "self-defense".
I disagree with Dalmacije that muslims are a minority in Serbia.
They stole your KOSOVO, parts of Bosnia, together with the Croats.
THEY WILL BE THE MAJORITY IN SERBIA ALSO, BECAUSE SE.RBS REPRODUCE AT A RATE 4 TIMES LOWER THEN MUZZIES.
Therefore, driving out or genociding muslims in the Balkans, taking back KOSOVO, and BYZANTINE, is a religious duty of ALL real Christians, regardless if they happen to be baptized by a Greek, a Russian, a Roman, or a German Church.
NATO (OTAN in French) must be considered SA-TAN
I strongly disagree, it is absolutely forbidden to commit genocide against civilians living under the jurisdiction of a moral nation. They must be provided with safe and free one-way passage.
The Jewish law provides protection and civil rights for the "Ger" - a gentile living in Israel, however a ger is not allowed to interfere with the politics in Israel. Since it is clear that Arabs will never agree to live peacefully under a Jewish state they must leave.
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I am not marionette of anybody.
I listen to my people to the elders of my nation.
We Serbs have our own heads and we should thing with our own mind.
Believe me I am not going to take anything from others what is in contradiction to our believes. I hope to continue to reject all the influences coming from non Orthodox sources.
I am not going to worry much about this.
All I know is that when you hate others and when you want to do evil things against other people you will become a victim of yourself. You will develop your dark side.
Every human been has two sides a good side and a dark side!
When you hate and when you do evil things you are developing your evil side!
I speak from experience. When I am involved with evil things I am getting guilty conciens and if you are not clean from inside than even the smallest things can disable you in life.
I know what I am saying.
Aggression and hate is not the same as courage and heroic deeds.
You must know to separate aggression and power.
This means that genocide can not be considered as a heroic deed!!
Those people who want to order us the Serbs to commit genocide do not know anything about us! We Serbs are on a higher lever we know better. Our forefathers showed us what means being a person of faith and honor. I know almost perfectly to say this but I must also learn to control these values. I do belong to the Serbian orthodox Church but I do not deserve to declare myself a confessed Orthodox Christian
I understand the non Serbs they are able to kill innocent people.
But we Serbs must know better.
We Serbs have Saint Sava, Saint Car Lazar, Saint Nikolaj Velimirovic those people were not killers.
Your only enemy is your self.
In this life you must fight your self you must learn to say no to your self!
If every body would gain control over their selves than this world would be a much easier and better place.
This does not count only for you it counts also for me!