JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ on December 07, 2008, 05:41:42 AM
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As a Hindu Nationalist organisation we are deeply hurt by what happened in Mumbai due to Islamic terrorists, Also the way the Jewish Chabad Centre was attacked.We would like to give condolences on behalf of Hindu Indian community to the family of those who were victims of such brutal,barbaric acts of Islamic aggression.Not only this, we regret the way in which the Indian socialist/communist supported government ordered killing of terrorists without caring for the hostages. The hostages could have been resuced, had the government asked the Security Forces to act intelligently with terrorists, asking them demands for freeing the hostages..then with an intelligent confrontation they could have freed the hostages and captured or killed the terrorists. It is quite apperent why the indian government did not do so,since a confrontartion with the terrorists would have exposed the Islamic agenda of those terrorirts, They cannot expose the Islamic agenda since it would mean going against their Muslim appeasment. We want to bring out the truth in front of the national/world. Let me cut it short what we want to achieve now
1) Expose the government about a lack of will to rescue the Hostages (Chabad House)
2) Why does the government provide security to Islamic holy places/mosques in India, and why not Temples and Synagogues
3) Our organisation would like to personally provide support and condolences to those affected by Chabad House attack
4) Demand for Re-location or Re-construction of the Jewish Center as its in a dilapidated condition now.
5) Inspite of knowing Pakistan as the country where terrorism originates, why was the socialist government of India in talks for a joint Iran-Pakistan-India (joint oil/gas pipleline project.(Iran being another terrorisim supportive nations).
We need some help for this from Jewish community, So i made this thread.If you know some one personally who is connected to Chabbad House of Mumbai or Some of their representatives. We would like to meet them personally and discuss with them these issues.
Well,Most of these issues will be solved when the Hindu Nationalist government (BJP - VHP's political organisation) comes to power hopefully by next year. Still we dont want to keep quite. Its our duty to oppose Islamic aggression against people of India and help people affected by Islamic extremists alike. The local unit of Shiva Sena (our sister hindu nationalist group) had tried to stop the terrorists in Chabad House in vain even before Security guards arrived, source: http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1210643
So,its seriously time we do something constructive jointly.
Please,feel free to PM me, if you think you can be of help.
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1) Expose the government about a lack of will to rescue the Hostages (Chabad House)
I am not sure that there was anything that could have been done to save the people at Chabad house. I understand they were murdered during the early phase of the attack. Moreover there should be no negotiation with terrorists (except as a delay tactic).
From what I know, India and Iran are good buddies, they have maintained cordial relations even during the BJP's government. This is a real tragedy and I hope that it would be rectified.
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I am not saying, we should have fulfilled their demands, but the government should have atleast got them to speak what their demands are, and then fake up a demand fulfilling ..and free the hostages and then kill the terrorists intelligently ... Exposing their demands would have in turn exposed their Islamic agenda, which the government wanted to prevent.
about BJP,yes that was the reason Hindu Nationalists did not vote for them and they lost the elections..
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The BJP is the best bet for India and the world. They bring Indian and Hindu pride back and can counter against the Pakistani and Muslim threat. It seems the other Indian parties have lost their sense of protection for India.
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The BJP used to have a site in english it was excellent
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The BJP are Nazis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TNyZ1xxgjw
Their militant wing, the RSS, murder people a lot.
If JTF as an organization supports BJP and the murder of my co-religionists then this is going to be a huge problem for me. Watch the video.
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If there were no moslems in India they would'nt kill
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If you have reliable information that the government knowingly avoided any attempt to save hostages lives than by all means pursue with this issue forward.
I hope that your long term goals include:
* Banning Islam from India altogether.
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If there were no moslems in India they would'nt kill
I want to use stronger words here, but bullcrap!
They murder Sikhs, Christians, and anyone who's not Hindu. They don't hate Muslims for being Muslim, they hate them because they're not Hindu.
JTF must not side with Nazis! Please! I care too much about JTF becoming a true mass movement to let this happen. You can't make an alliance with evil and have it turn out good. I think America learned that when it allied with Osama bin Laden years ago.
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If there were no moslems in India they would'nt kill
I want to use stronger words here, but bullcrap!
They murder Sikhs, Christians, and anyone who's not Hindu. They don't hate Muslims for being Muslim, they hate them because they're not Hindu.
JTF must not side with Nazis! Please! I care too much about JTF becoming a true mass movement to let this happen. You can't make an alliance with evil and have it turn out good.
I don't know that much about the party i used to look at their forum they never posted hate against anyone but moslems,anyhow i'm not an Indian Rubystars maybe you can ask Indians on the board about them
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If there were no moslems in India they would'nt kill
I want to use stronger words here, but bullcrap!
They murder Sikhs, Christians, and anyone who's not Hindu. They don't hate Muslims for being Muslim, they hate them because they're not Hindu.
JTF must not side with Nazis! Please! I care too much about JTF becoming a true mass movement to let this happen. You can't make an alliance with evil and have it turn out good. I think America learned that when it allied with Osama bin Laden years ago.
What are you basing your accusations on, what are your sources ? I've never heard of murderous persecution going on in India.
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Should JTF not support white southerners because a bunch of them belong to the KKK ?
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BJP--RSS Relationship:
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers2/paper153.htm
"Undeterred by the wide-range reaction against his presence in Agra meet of the RSS, Advani categorically asserted before the press that the "historical bond" between the RSS and BJP is such that the latter cannot dissociate itself from the former. The unbreakable bond between the BJP led coalition and the RSS is based on moral principles. Reminding his opponents about the roots of his party, he said, " We walked out of the Janata Party Government because we were told to dissociate ourselves from the RSS. The forces, which are bent on raising the issue once again should be reminded that the BJP was born after that very experiment." Equating the ties between the RSS and the BJP somewhat akin to that of Nehru led Congress Government, with Gandhian philosophy, he asked his opponents, "did anyone question the Nehru Government on Gandhian philosophy - on issues relating to cow slaughter?"
http://www.newkerala.com/topstory-fullnews-51440.html
"Hitler inspires the BJP and its ideology in a sustained manner."
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Should JTF not support white southerners because a bunch of them belong to the KKK ?
Southerners just like others will almost always oppose the KKK, and the KKK really has no power anymore anyway.
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The BJP are Nazis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TNyZ1xxgjw
Their militant wing, the RSS, murder people a lot.
If JTF as an organization supports BJP and the murder of my co-religionists then this is going to be a huge problem for me. Watch the video.
nice propoganda video, you will find a few videos like this made by socialist,commies to defame a nationalist movement..
Secondly,organisations like RSS work in many countires across the world, if they indeed are killing innocent people then i challenge the government of respective countires to ban them. If they cannot, then it simply means that there is no proof on their involvement in any kind of Genoside.
Many Muslims were killed during Gujarat Riots, but those were carried out by local Gujaratis as a retaliation to what Muslims did to them(that is burning of train carrying hindu pilgrims)
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http://www.newkerala.com/topstory-fullnews-51440.html
"Hitler inspires the BJP and its ideology in a sustained manner."
Going through the news piece, its so obvious, that its a opposition of one political party to another political party.
It is just battle between two parties making statement at other (Congress to BJP) , trying to cash in on Muslim Vote bank.
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Let me make some things clear,with an example
One man(Patriotic leader - Freedom fighter) who is dear to Hindu Nationalist organisation (BJP,RSS..etc) is Veer Savarkar. The man who started the Whole Hindu Nationalism movement. You can say he is to Hindu what Kahane is to Jewish Nationalists
http://ameyap.wordpress.com/2008/05/30/tribute-to-veer-savarkar/
Emulate Israel:
He strongly criticized the anti Israel stand adopted by Nehru and the congress and described it as a pro muslim agenda, he also congratulated the Jewish state on its formation and extended his good wishes. He saw Israel as a decisive ally of India and Hindus in general, as Israel was the only nation which could checkmate the aggressive lobbying of Muslim states from Africa to Asia. He asked Hindus to emulate the Jews. Veer Savarkar saw the Jews as allies in a common struggle. In his famous Hindutva of 1923, he wrote:
“if the Zionists’ dreams were realised, if Palestine became a Jewish State, it would gladden us almost as much as our Jewish friends.”
Savarkar had been pro-Zionist since 1908 and remained so as Bharat’s betrayers went in the opposite direction. In 1952, Savarkar looked to the Jews an example for the Hindu to emulate if they wished to be a modern nation:
“Even a tiny state like Israel has sensibly started developing fish field and sand fruits and because of that they are able to meet the needs of the countless immigrants who would have otherwise half-starved. The Jews are a brave and intelligent people. And although their State looks like a child before our great state of Bharat we must emulate its example.”
And its after so many years of boot licking the Arabs and Palestinians on the issue of Palestine conflict with Israel, which was obviously done to appease the Muslim vote bank in India, we have realised that neither the Arab states or the Palestine has hardly supported India on any issue, most importantly on the Kashmir issue where Palestine unequivocally supports Pakistan, inside and outside UN. So all out friendship with Israel has become must, if India needs to check terrorism and get high tech weapons to counter Pakistan, as well as India Israel USA axis can work well against Jihadi states like Pakistan.
Savarkar was unfortunately not taken seriously by the Secularist intellectualls of those days and even today the English press continues to lampoon him, his sacrifices, his sufferings, his patriotism, his views are all forgotten and despised just because he was a right wing Hindutvavadi. But slowly people are recognizing th futulity of Gandhism and slowly moving close to Savarkari-niti or the Savarkar way. One day we will surely realise his dream of a united Hindu nation.
Now what do you guys think, will the organisations whose vision was provided by the Leader Savarkar who was very Pro-Zionist, can ever take to Nazism?
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http://www.newkerala.com/topstory-fullnews-51440.html
"Hitler inspires the BJP and its ideology in a sustained manner."
Going through the news piece, its so obvious, that its a opposition of one political party to another political party.
It is just battle between two parties making statement at other (Congress to BJP) , trying to cash in on Muslim Vote bank.
Stop defending Nazis and those who commit genocide! BJP and RSS are Nazis! I won't shut up about this!
The RSS is slaughtering Christians and other non-Hindus right now. How can you deny what's going on in the present day?
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Obviously a lot of evil propaganda has been spread in the west by the Euro-Communists and their Indian agents.
Ultimately it has to be understood that the Euro-Communists are hands in gloves with the global Islamic Jihadi Terrorism and so many other evils that need not to be named. So one need not to be impressed by any such propaganda.
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http://www.newkerala.com/topstory-fullnews-51440.html
"Hitler inspires the BJP and its ideology in a sustained manner."
Going through the news piece, its so obvious, that its a opposition of one political party to another political party.
It is just battle between two parties making statement at other (Congress to BJP) , trying to cash in on Muslim Vote bank.
Stop defending Nazis and those who commit genocide! BJP and RSS are Nazis! I won't shut up about this!
The RSS is slaughtering Christians and other non-Hindus right now. How can you deny what's going on in the present day?
Then question the governments of USA,UK..etc to ban these organisations in their countries.. Its simple there is not substantial evidence that BJP and RSS conduct pogroms on non-Hindus..
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Obviously a lot of evil propaganda has been spread in the west by the Euro-Communists and their Indian agents.
Ultimately it has to be understood that the Euro-Communists are hands in gloves with the global Islamic Jihadi Terrorism and so many other evils that need not to be named. So one need not to be impressed by any such propaganda.
absolutely
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The only evil propganda I'm seeing is from the RSS Nazi supporters here on this forum.
Everyone needs to see the youtube video I posted earlier.
http://eurweb.com/story/eur49162.cfm
Now the stakes are even higher – and pastors have a bounty on their heads. Faiz Rahman, chairman of Good News India, said Hindu militants are targeting Christian leaders, the Christian Post reported.
"The going price to kill a pastor is $250," he said.
Rahman, a head of several orphanages in Orissa State, said he's helped 25 pastors leave refugee camps, but 250 Christian leaders are still in shelters.
"All of the pastors are high value targets," Rahman told the UK-based Release International. "We've got to get them out of the refugee camps."
An All-India Christian Council spokesman said, "People are being offered rewards to kill, and to destroy churches and Christian properties. They are being offered foreign liquor, chicken, mutton and weapons. They are given petrol and kerosene."
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Then question the governments of USA,UK..etc to ban these organisations in their countries.. Its simple there is not substantial evidence that BJP and RSS conduct pogroms on non-Hindus..
That statement is nothing but a lie. How dare you lie to the good people of this forum? How dare you take advantage of them? You have a lot of nerve.
Here's a documentary of extreme Hindu violence against others:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=67c_1187401494
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ac3_1187402009
Here's more evidence
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/19/orissa-violence-india-christianity-hinduism
"Hundreds of Christians in the Indian state of Orissa have been forced to renounce their religion and become Hindus after lynch mobs issued them with a stark ultimatum: convert or die."
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The videos you have posted have nothing to do with RSS or the BJP, its talks of Hindu extremists, there are extremists who are in every community, the society has to get rid of them.
Also what is happening in a Small village or tribal town in a state of India, does not mean its happening All over the country.
On a personal note,i am also deeply sadned by whats going on in that particular part of India,I hope sanity prevail there.
Also if there are Hindu extremists,they are in very small numbers, also the probabilty of Hindu Nationalists taking up arms is very rare, if that was the case,The British would not have ruled over India for 100 years and the Islamic rulers for more than 400 years.
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Hmmm... Creation by and the inclusion of the names like Faiz Rahman and Burhan Wazir clearly indicates that it is an IJT and/or Euro-Communist propaganda.
If someone is not able to understand such a simple thing, then it goes beyond doubt.
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The videos you have posted have nothing to do with RSS or the BJP, its talks of Hindu extremists, there are extremists who are in every community, the society has to get rid of them.
Also what is happening in a Small village or tribal town in a state of India, does not mean its happening All over the country.
On a personal note,i am also deeply sadned by whats going on in that particular part of India,I hope sanity prevail there.
Also if there are Hindu extremists,they are in very small numbers, also the probabilty of Hindu Nationalists taking up arms is very rare, if that was the case,The British would not have ruled over India for 100 years and the Islamic rulers for more than 400 years.
The Hindu Nationalist Movements all want the same things, a completely Hindu India. The first video I posted was all about the BJP and RSS. You need to learn how to lie better if you're going to keep doing it. They admire Hitler and the Nazis are emulating their behavior.
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Hmmm... Creation by and the inclusion of the names like Faiz Rahman and Burhan Wazir clearly indicates that it is an IJT and/or Euro-Communist propaganda.
If someone is not able to understand such a simple thing, then it goes beyond doubt.
You sound like a Muslim, always blaming the media for giving them a bad image.
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Hmmm... Creation by and the inclusion of the names like Faiz Rahman and Burhan Wazir clearly indicates that it is an IJT and/or Euro-Communist propaganda.
If someone is not able to understand such a simple thing, then it goes beyond doubt.
You sound like a Muslim, always blaming the media for giving them a bad image.
You seem to be supporting the Islamic Media.
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Hmmm... Creation by and the inclusion of the names like Faiz Rahman and Burhan Wazir clearly indicates that it is an IJT and/or Euro-Communist propaganda.
If someone is not able to understand such a simple thing, then it goes beyond doubt.
You sound like a Muslim, always blaming the media for giving them a bad image.
You seem to be supporting the Islamic Media.
Most documentaries about this are from Britain.
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The videos you have posted have nothing to do with RSS or the BJP, its talks of Hindu extremists, there are extremists who are in every community, the society has to get rid of them.
Also what is happening in a Small village or tribal town in a state of India, does not mean its happening All over the country.
On a personal note,i am also deeply sadned by whats going on in that particular part of India,I hope sanity prevail there.
Also if there are Hindu extremists,they are in very small numbers, also the probabilty of Hindu Nationalists taking up arms is very rare, if that was the case,The British would not have ruled over India for 100 years and the Islamic rulers for more than 400 years.
The Hindu Nationalist Movements all want the same things, a completely Hindu India. The first video I posted was all about the BJP and RSS. You need to learn how to lie better if you're going to keep doing it. They admire Hitler and the Nazis are emulating their behavior.
correction, they do not want India with complete Hindu, But India declared as Hindu State, There is nothing wrong in it, just like Israelis have Israel as a Jewish state, does not mean Jews want complete Israel to be full of Jews.
BJP and RSS and completely Zionist and pro-Semitic, a few statement of theirs have been blown out of proportion by Socialist/Commie controlled media.Remember when Modi (a leading BJP leader) was denied Visa to USA, he got visa to visit Israel without any problem.
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Hmmm... Creation by and the inclusion of the names like Faiz Rahman and Burhan Wazir clearly indicates that it is an IJT and/or Euro-Communist propaganda.
If someone is not able to understand such a simple thing, then it goes beyond doubt.
You sound like a Muslim, always blaming the media for giving them a bad image.
You seem to be supporting the Islamic Media.
Most documentaries about this are from Britain.
It certifies itself with the seal of Euro-Communism and Jihad.
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I posted an Ask JTF question about all this. I'm fed up with all the double talk and excuses. People can study this for themselves, I've posted enough information for people to get started.
I just wish that more JTFers were aware of this.
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I posted an Ask JTF question about all this. I'm fed up with all the double talk and excuses. People can study this for themselves, I've posted enough information for people to get started.
I just wish that more JTFers were aware of this.
pardon me for my ignorance, can you point me to the link of that?
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I posted an Ask JTF question about all this. I'm fed up with all the double talk and excuses. People can study this for themselves, I've posted enough information for people to get started.
I just wish that more JTFers were aware of this.
pardon me for my ignorance, can you point me to the link of that?
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,29286.0.html
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I posted an Ask JTF question about all this. I'm fed up with all the double talk and excuses. People can study this for themselves, I've posted enough information for people to get started.
I just wish that more JTFers were aware of this.
pardon me for my ignorance, can you point me to the link of that?
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,29286.0.html
Ok thanks,awaiting the answer
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For to the query you posted in that thread,I would like to point out that, Many Christian people of India support the Congress government in India,which is known to be anti-semitic, isn't that like making a pact with a devil?
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India's whole system is messed up.
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India's whole system is messed up.
Just because Jihad and Euro-Communism are not wholeheartedly welcome there? OR just because some people there are opposing Jihadi terrorism and Euro-Communism by tooth and nails?
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I'm kind of torn on this one. I know there is violence towards Christians in India which is 100% wrong but at the same time if I look from the Indian perspective they have one country for their religion and they are losing it to a large Muslim population and have no one who is doing anything about it. I think that link was biased because it was made in Britain. Britain has a huge Muslim population that has raised money for terrorism and propaganda against Indian Hindus.
There is a massive anti-Hindu movement by Muslims across the world! India is the biggest target for Muslims next to Israel and the US and there are countless Jihadist videos against India all over the web. The Muslims and Arabs hate India and want to convert the whole country. The youtube link said that the BJP was "inspired" by Hitler and Nazis but gave 0 evidence to back it up. The video was also very suspect because it misled the viewer to show the Swastika on a flag when that symbol was stolen by Hitler from the Indians to use in Germany. The Indian symbol is hundreds of years old and had nothing to with Germany or anti-semitism before he 1930's. The native Americans also used a swastika type symbol but that was also hundreds of years before Hitler as well. For that misinformation in the video, it makes it suspect that it is Muslim propaganda.
At the same time I saw that part of the video was from the 700 Club and they are good people who want to help people to come closer to God and do good and wonderful things. I was shocked to see them express outrage at anti-Muslim violence just to get at the Hindus.
Muslims are behind a lot of the anti-Indian and anti-Hindu videos, information and so on. They don't talk about the Hindu temples that have been burned to the ground by Muslim mobs to be replaced by mosques. Muslims also have compared Kahanists to Nazis. I've seen Fakestinian professors say that the Irgun wore black and marched like Nazis. I don't think marching and being in large groups makes them Nazis.
All that being said, Christians and Sieks have to be protected in India. Even if Hinduism is under threat, they cannot kill Christians for providing aid and help to the lower castes. I really hope that Christians, Jews and Hindus can come to respect each other more and hopefully fight the massive, approaching Muslim enemy.
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"The Hindu Nationalist Movements all want the same things, a completely Hindu India". India is a nation primarily of Hindus is it not? Would you prefer that they keep all their muslims who slaughter them?
The only Christians that I have heard of that Hindus have contempt for are the ones that go to India to missionise and I agree with them in their approach in curbing this problem and wish the Jews would approach it in the same manner. Many of the Bnei Menashe that were once Jews were stolen from Judaism by these same western missionaries.
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I'm kind of torn on this one. I know there is violence towards Christians in India which is 100% wrong but at the same time if I look from the Indian perspective they have one country for their religion and they are losing it to a large Muslim population and have no one who is doing anything about it. I think that link was biased because it was made in Britain. Britain has a huge Muslim population that has raised money for terrorism and propaganda against Indian Hindus.
There is a massive anti-Hindu movement by Muslims across the world! India is the biggest target for Muslims next to Israel and the US and there are countless Jihadist videos against India all over the web. The Muslims and Arabs hate India and want to convert the whole country. The youtube link said that the BJP was "inspired" by Hitler and Nazis but gave 0 evidence to back it up. The video was also very suspect because it misled the viewer to show the Swastika on a flag when that symbol was stolen by Hitler from the Indians to use in Germany. The Indian symbol is hundreds of years old and had nothing to with Germany or anti-semitism before he 1930's. The native Americans also used a swastika type symbol but that was also hundreds of years before Hitler as well. For that misinformation in the video, it makes it suspect that it is Muslim propaganda.
At the same time I saw that part of the video was from the 700 Club and they are good people who want to help people to come closer to G-d and do good and wonderful things. I was shocked to see them express outrage at anti-Muslim violence just to get at the Hindus.
Muslims are behind a lot of the anti-Indian and anti-Hindu videos, information and so on. They don't talk about the Hindu temples that have been burned to the ground by Muslim mobs to be replaced by mosques. Muslims also have compared Kahanists to Nazis. I've seen Fakestinian professors say that the Irgun wore black and marched like Nazis. I don't think marching and being in large groups makes them Nazis.
All that being said, Christians and Sieks have to be protected in India. Even if Hinduism is under threat, they cannot kill Christians for providing aid and help to the lower castes. I really hope that Christians, Jews and Hindus can come to respect each other more and hopefully fight the massive, approaching Muslim enemy.
"The Hindu Nationalist Movements all want the same things, a completely Hindu India". India is a nation primarily of Hindus is it not? Would you prefer that they keep all their muslims who slaughter them?
The only Christians that I have heard of that Hindus have contempt for are the ones that go to India to missionise and I agree with them in their approach in curbing this problem and wish the Jews would approach it in the same manner. Many of the Bnei Menashe that were once Jews were stolen from Judaism by these same western missionaries.
i am just amazed about the knowledge and understanding you guys have of India,Hindus,inspite of not being one. Hail JTF!
just a little correction, Hindu Nationalist Movements do not want a completely Hindu India, but India be declared Hindu State, how hard is that? it shudnt be a problem for people of other faiths living in India if India is declared a Hindu State, just like Jewish State of Israel
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I'm kind of torn on this one. I know there is violence towards Christians in India which is 100% wrong but at the same time if I look from the Indian perspective they have one country for their religion and they are losing it to a large Muslim population and have no one who is doing anything about it. I think that link was biased because it was made in Britain. Britain has a huge Muslim population that has raised money for terrorism and propaganda against Indian Hindus.
There is a massive anti-Hindu movement by Muslims across the world! India is the biggest target for Muslims next to Israel and the US and there are countless Jihadist videos against India all over the web. The Muslims and Arabs hate India and want to convert the whole country. The youtube link said that the BJP was "inspired" by Hitler and Nazis but gave 0 evidence to back it up. The video was also very suspect because it misled the viewer to show the Swastika on a flag when that symbol was stolen by Hitler from the Indians to use in Germany. The Indian symbol is hundreds of years old and had nothing to with Germany or anti-semitism before he 1930's. The native Americans also used a swastika type symbol but that was also hundreds of years before Hitler as well. For that misinformation in the video, it makes it suspect that it is Muslim propaganda.
At the same time I saw that part of the video was from the 700 Club and they are good people who want to help people to come closer to G-d and do good and wonderful things. I was shocked to see them express outrage at anti-Muslim violence just to get at the Hindus.
Muslims are behind a lot of the anti-Indian and anti-Hindu videos, information and so on. They don't talk about the Hindu temples that have been burned to the ground by Muslim mobs to be replaced by mosques. Muslims also have compared Kahanists to Nazis. I've seen Fakestinian professors say that the Irgun wore black and marched like Nazis. I don't think marching and being in large groups makes them Nazis.
All that being said, Christians and Sieks have to be protected in India. Even if Hinduism is under threat, they cannot kill Christians for providing aid and help to the lower castes. I really hope that Christians, Jews and Hindus can come to respect each other more and hopefully fight the massive, approaching Muslim enemy.
"The Hindu Nationalist Movements all want the same things, a completely Hindu India". India is a nation primarily of Hindus is it not? Would you prefer that they keep all their muslims who slaughter them?
The only Christians that I have heard of that Hindus have contempt for are the ones that go to India to missionise and I agree with them in their approach in curbing this problem and wish the Jews would approach it in the same manner. Many of the Bnei Menashe that were once Jews were stolen from Judaism by these same western missionaries.
i am just amazed about the knowledge and understanding you guys have of India,Hindus,inspite of not being one. Hail JTF!
just a little correction, Hindu Nationalist Movements do not want a completely Hindu India, but India be declared Hindu State, how hard is that? it shudnt be a problem for people of other faiths living in India if India is declared a Hindu State, just like Jewish State of Israel
How much kind, great and benevolent of you all for your clear, correct, nice and firm expressions. I do not have many words of gratitude.
Eternal Victory for Kahane, JTF, Jewish and Israel.
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"The Hindu Nationalist Movements all want the same things, a completely Hindu India". India is a nation primarily of Hindus is it not? Would you prefer that they keep all their muslims who slaughter them?
The only Christians that I have heard of that Hindus have contempt for are the ones that go to India to missionise and I agree with them in their approach in curbing this problem and wish the Jews would approach it in the same manner. Many of the Bnei Menashe that were once Jews were stolen from Judaism by these same western missionaries.
They murder their own people who convert to Christianity and rape and beat them and try to force them to convert to Hinduism. The Hindu nationalists are just as evil as the Muslims. They trash churches and kill pastors.
Christians aren't the only targets of Hindu terrorism either and Hinduism is NOT the only religion native to India, so no India should not be declared a Hindu state. They also murder Sikhs whose religion is Indian in origin.
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"The Hindu Nationalist Movements all want the same things, a completely Hindu India". India is a nation primarily of Hindus is it not? Would you prefer that they keep all their muslims who slaughter them?
The only Christians that I have heard of that Hindus have contempt for are the ones that go to India to missionise and I agree with them in their approach in curbing this problem and wish the Jews would approach it in the same manner. Many of the Bnei Menashe that were once Jews were stolen from Judaism by these same western missionaries.
They murder their own people who convert to Christianity and rape and beat them and try to force them to convert to Hinduism. The Hindu nationalists are just as evil as the Muslims. They trash churches and kill pastors.
Christians aren't the only targets of Hindu terrorism either and Hinduism is NOT the only religion native to India, so no India should not be declared a Hindu state. They also murder Sikhs whose religion is Indian in origin.
The State of Punjab,in India is ruled by a Sikh Political Party, which is in coalition with BJP
secondly,The Hindu Nationalist organisations are free to operate in every country around the work, which only speaks volumes of their social work,service they render to people unlike what Euro-Communist,Arab funded media claim.
and what do you mean by Hindusim is not native religion of India? please elaborate
and stop heaping insults on Hindu Nationalists, even we can claim that Chirstians in India are hypocrites, they support a anti-Semitic government in India,which would not suit the agenda of JTF.
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secondly,The Hindu Nationalist organisations are free to operate in every country around the work, which only speaks volumes of their social work,service they render to people unlike what Euro-Communist,Arab funded media claim.
http://www.khalistan.com/OpenLetters/ol042704_PunjabElectionsMay10.htm
"Congress and the BJP are both the enemies of the Sikh Nation. They both watch out for the interests of the Hindu majority at the expense of the Sikh Nation and other minorities. The BJP has murdered Muslims in Gujarat, in Kashmir, and elsewhere and Christians in Nagaland and throughout India. They have forcibly reconverted Christians back to Hinduism. They preach Hindutva (total Hindu control of the culture and society) and openly preach that if you live in India, you must either be Hindu or be subservient to Hinduism."
http://www.khalistan-affairs.org/home/khalistancalling/2008/october29.aspx
"The arrest of six activists of the Hindu Jagran Manch (including 3 Ex Army officers) having links with the Akhil Bhartiya Vidayarthi Parishad ( ABVP), a student organization of the BJP, exposes the fascist designs of the ‘Sangh Parivar’ and its nefarious plan to defame and persecute the minority communities, particularly the Muslims. Following the blasts the right wing ‘saffron brigade’ activists let loose a reign of terror in Malegaon and its neighboring areas of Dhulia on October 5. While five Muslims were killed – burnt alive inside their home - and several injured, a number of places of worship (mosques) of the minority community were also desecrated in this communal flare-up. Such serial blasts have always provided an opportunity to right wing Hindutva fanatics (like the Hindu Jagran Manch) not only to demonize the Muslim minority but also to attack them and vandalize their property and places of worship. But what makes the acts of terrorism and violence perpetrated by the Hindu Jagran Manch more reprehensible and grave is the fact that those involved in it are associated with a major political party – the BJP - which has been shielding them while they resort to such acts parading as patriots and nationalists."
"In Orissa, where the BJP is ruling in aliance with the BJD, and Karanataka,and Madhya Pradesh where it rules the ‘sangh parivar’ outfits like Bajrang Dal and VHP are currently engaged in the persecution of the Christians with the state authorities either conniving with them or behaving in an indifferent manner. The communal and terrorist character of the BJP, RSS, and its siblings which believe in the concept of India being a Hindu nation with all others like the Muslims and Christians as aliens, is widely known. Their role in the communal violence in the wake of India's partition needs no elaboration. The first act of terrorism in which those associated with the ‘sangh parivar’ was the assassination of India’s founding father, 'Mahatma' Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi -- born 2 October, 1869 and murdered on 30 January, 1948. Nathu Ram Godse, Gandhi’s assassin and his associates were inspired by the fascist Hindutva RSS ideology to resort to such a gory act. A number of RSS activists were arrested for Gandhi's assassination but later set free as a matter of political expediency."
and what do you mean by Hindusim is not native religion of India? please elaborate
Hinduism is native to India, but it's not the ONLY native religion to India. You have no right to murder people for not following Hinduism. Sikhism is an Indian religion too!
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nice twisted article from a Khalistani website which declared as Terrorist organisation Globally http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/punjab/terrorist_outfits/KZF.htm
Also the Shiromani Akal Dal which is highest Sikh Holy body do not support views espoused by Khalistani movement
Hinduism is native to India, but it's not the ONLY native religion to India. You have no right to murder people for not following Hinduism. Sikhism is an Indian religion too!
Hinduism was first religion of India and the religion practise by most people in India,secondly the incident of riots between Hindus-Christians originated due to a a famous Hindu religious leader killed allegedly by Christian missionaries along with Communist-Mao guerillas.
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On 30 January 1948, Gandhi was shot and killed while having his nightly public walk on the grounds of the Birla Bhavan (Birla House) in New Delhi. The assassin, Nathuram Godse, was a Hindu radical with links to the extremist Hindu Mahasabha, who held Gandhi responsible for weakening India by insisting upon a payment to Pakistan.Godse and his co-conspirator Narayan Apte were later tried and convicted; they were executed on 15 November 1949. Gandhi's memorial (or Samādhi) at Rāj Ghāt, New Delhi, bears the epigraph "Hē Ram", (Devanagari: हे ! राम or, He Rām), which may be translated as "Oh G-d". These are widely believed to be Gandhi's last words after he was shot, though the veracity of this statement has been disputed. Jawaharlal Nehru addressed the nation through radio
Godse assassinated Gandhi on January 30, 1948, approaching him during the evening prayer, bowing, and shooting him three times at close range with a Beretta semi-automatic pistol. Immediately after this, he surrendered himself to police
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Nathuram.jpg)
Group photo of people accused in the murder of Mahatma Gandhi. Standing: Shankar Kistaiya, Gopal Godse, Madanlal Pahwa, Digambar Badge (Approver). Seated: Narayan Apte, Vinayak D. Savarkar, Nathuram Godse, Vishnu Karkare
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nice twisted article from a Khalistani website which declared as Terrorist organisation Globally http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/punjab/terrorist_outfits/KZF.htm
Also the Shiromani Akal Dal which is highest Sikh Holy body do not support views espoused by Khalistani movement
Hinduism is native to India, but it's not the ONLY native religion to India. You have no right to murder people for not following Hinduism. Sikhism is an Indian religion too!
Hinduism was first religion of India and the religion practise by most people in India,secondly the incident of riots between Hindus-Christians originated due to a a famous Hindu religious leader killed allegedly by Christian missionaries along with Communist-Mao guerillas.
If you make it a Hindu nation then religious minorities will lose their rights. Not all Indian citizens are Hindu and you need to come to terms with that and leave people who choose another religion alone! It's not your right to tell people what religion they should follow. That's a very personal choice that's none of your business. Furthermore you have no right to say that Hinduism should be the state religion of India when it's not the only religon of Indian origin.
In America it's expected when someone is being serious that they're not hiding things or obstructing things, but just like the Muslim terrorists, when you Hindu terrorists want to convince people that you're peaceful, you tell a little bit of the truth and then a little bit of a lie and then try to claim the media is smearing you. The crimes of the BJP, RSS, and other Hindu terrorist supporters will be exposed to the world and if Israel aligns itself too closely with you, thinking you a friend, then she will also be hurt.
Sure, Jews are safe with Hindus now, but Jews were pretty safe in pre-WW2 Germany too. I am trying to sound the bell about the next wave of Nazis, who are alreday killing people who aren't like them.
There's a poem that goes like this:
"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."
I see the same thing happening in India. JTFers please don't make this mistake. They are killing unarmed Muslim women and children, and we don't speak up about that because we don't like Muslims (I don't either) and because of what Muslims do, but they are also killing Christians, and maybe JTF isn't speaking up about the Christians because JTF is a Jewish organization, and after all the Hindu nationalists are nice to the Jews right now. The Hindu nationalists are killing the Sikhs, and who is speaking up for them? So I ask, JTF, when they finally turn on you, when these neo-nazi Hindu nationalists come for the Jews, then who will stand up for you?
The crimes against humanity caused by Hindu nationalists are well known and just because you tell part of the truth in your posts doesn't make them any less of a lie. You are lying and making excuses for Hindu terrorists and criminals.
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For some little span of time, I felt that I was going through a Pak666 propaganda sponsored by Euro-Communism. Thanks it is a JTF site.
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For some little span of time, I felt that I was going through a Pak666 propaganda sponsored by Euro-Communism. Thanks it is a JTF site.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T0e-UN4uX4&feature=related
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nice twisted article from a Khalistani website which declared as Terrorist organisation Globally http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/punjab/terrorist_outfits/KZF.htm
Also the Shiromani Akal Dal which is highest Sikh Holy body do not support views espoused by Khalistani movement
Hinduism is native to India, but it's not the ONLY native religion to India. You have no right to murder people for not following Hinduism. Sikhism is an Indian religion too!
Hinduism was first religion of India and the religion practise by most people in India,secondly the incident of riots between Hindus-Christians originated due to a a famous Hindu religious leader killed allegedly by Christian missionaries along with Communist-Mao guerillas.
If you make it a Hindu nation then religious minorities will lose their rights. Not all Indian citizens are Hindu and you need to come to terms with that and leave people who choose another religion alone! It's not your right to tell people what religion they should follow. That's a very personal choice that's none of your business. Furthermore you have no right to say that Hinduism should be the state religion of India when it's not the only religon of Indian origin.
In America it's expected when someone is being serious that they're not hiding things or obstructing things, but just like the Muslim terrorists, when you Hindu terrorists want to convince people that you're peaceful, you tell a little bit of the truth and then a little bit of a lie and then try to claim the media is smearing you. The crimes of the BJP, RSS, and other Hindu terrorist supporters will be exposed to the world and if Israel aligns itself too closely with you, thinking you a friend, then she will also be hurt.
Sure, Jews are safe with Hindus now, but Jews were pretty safe in pre-WW2 Germany too. I am trying to sound the bell about the next wave of Nazis, who are alreday killing people who aren't like them.
There's a poem that goes like this:
"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."
I see the same thing happening in India. JTFers please don't make this mistake. They are killing unarmed Muslim women and children, and we don't speak up about that because we don't like Muslims (I don't either) and because of what Muslims do, but they are also killing Christians, and maybe JTF isn't speaking up about the Christians because JTF is a Jewish organization, and after all the Hindu nationalists are nice to the Jews right now. The Hindu nationalists are killing the Sikhs, and who is speaking up for them? So I ask, JTF, when they finally turn on you, when these neo-nazi Hindu nationalists come for the Jews, then who will stand up for you?
The crimes against humanity caused by Hindu nationalists are well known and just because you tell part of the truth in your posts doesn't make them any less of a lie. You are lying and making excuses for Hindu terrorists and criminals.
Tommorow some one will say non-Jew do not get civil rights in Israel because Israel is a Official Jewish state, A JTF'er will not make such statements, similar its not right no business to say that India cannot be declared as Hindu state cause non-Hindu wont get civil rights. Plain stupid.
Again,I feel you need to update you real knowledge about what goes on in India. Secondly Sikhs are living a very good life in India, India's PM is Sikh himself.Hindu do not have problem, else there would have been riots.
Sikh intermarry among Hindus according to the Constitutional Law.
There is no such thing as Hindu terrorism, it is a term manufactured by Islamic,Communist and Anti-Semitic supporter. Show me one Hindu radical group listed as terrorist organisation by CIA or the EU.
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What is stupid in my opinion is for you to make excuses for Hindu terrorism and to say it's not terrorism when people are dying and being hurt because of Hindu nationalist activities. If you make excuses for terrorists, you are a terrorist, and that's what you're doing.
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On 30 January 1948, Gandhi was shot and killed while having his nightly public walk on the grounds of the Birla Bhavan (Birla House) in New Delhi. The assassin, Nathuram Godse, was a Hindu radical with links to the extremist Hindu Mahasabha, who held Gandhi responsible for weakening India by insisting upon a payment to Pakistan.Godse and his co-conspirator Narayan Apte were later tried and convicted; they were executed on 15 November 1949. Gandhi's memorial (or Samādhi) at Rāj Ghāt, New Delhi, bears the epigraph "Hē Ram", (Devanagari: हे ! राम or, He Rām), which may be translated as "Oh G-d". These are widely believed to be Gandhi's last words after he was shot, though the veracity of this statement has been disputed. Jawaharlal Nehru addressed the nation through radio
Godse assassinated Gandhi on January 30, 1948, approaching him during the evening prayer, bowing, and shooting him three times at close range with a Beretta semi-automatic pistol. Immediately after this, he surrendered himself to police
Similar to assasination of Yitzhak Rabin, it was a need of that time, many Hindus died during India-Pakistan formation,cause Gandhi gave part of India to Pakistani elements for them to create a Islamic Republic.
Again,another instance of how the Jews and Hindus have parallel and similar history.
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On 30 January 1948, Gandhi was shot and killed while having his nightly public walk on the grounds of the Birla Bhavan (Birla House) in New Delhi. The assassin, Nathuram Godse, was a Hindu radical with links to the extremist Hindu Mahasabha, who held Gandhi responsible for weakening India by insisting upon a payment to Pakistan.Godse and his co-conspirator Narayan Apte were later tried and convicted; they were executed on 15 November 1949. Gandhi's memorial (or Samādhi) at Rāj Ghāt, New Delhi, bears the epigraph "Hē Ram", (Devanagari: हे ! राम or, He Rām), which may be translated as "Oh G-d". These are widely believed to be Gandhi's last words after he was shot, though the veracity of this statement has been disputed. Jawaharlal Nehru addressed the nation through radio
Godse assassinated Gandhi on January 30, 1948, approaching him during the evening prayer, bowing, and shooting him three times at close range with a Beretta semi-automatic pistol. Immediately after this, he surrendered himself to police
Similar to assasination of Yitzhak Rabin, it was a need of that time, many Hindus died during India-Pakistan formation,cause Gandhi gave part of India to Pakistani elements for them to create a Islamic Republic.
Again,another instance of how the Jews and Hindus have parallel and similar history.
Are you condoning Gandhi's Murder?
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For some little span of time, I felt that I was going through a Pak666 propaganda sponsored by Euro-Communism. Thanks it is a JTF site.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T0e-UN4uX4&feature=related
The Euro-Communist masters and Jihadi masterminds may be appeased by collection of such garbage.
Others are only amused.
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On 30 January 1948, Gandhi was shot and killed while having his nightly public walk on the grounds of the Birla Bhavan (Birla House) in New Delhi. The assassin, Nathuram Godse, was a Hindu radical with links to the extremist Hindu Mahasabha, who held Gandhi responsible for weakening India by insisting upon a payment to Pakistan.Godse and his co-conspirator Narayan Apte were later tried and convicted; they were executed on 15 November 1949. Gandhi's memorial (or Samādhi) at Rāj Ghāt, New Delhi, bears the epigraph "Hē Ram", (Devanagari: हे ! राम or, He Rām), which may be translated as "Oh G-d". These are widely believed to be Gandhi's last words after he was shot, though the veracity of this statement has been disputed. Jawaharlal Nehru addressed the nation through radio
Godse assassinated Gandhi on January 30, 1948, approaching him during the evening prayer, bowing, and shooting him three times at close range with a Beretta semi-automatic pistol. Immediately after this, he surrendered himself to police
Similar to assasination of Yitzhak Rabin, it was a need of that time, many Hindus died during India-Pakistan formation,cause Gandhi gave part of India to Pakistani elements for them to create a Islamic Republic.
Again,another instance of how the Jews and Hindus have parallel and similar history.
Are you condoning Gandhi's Murder?
should i be condoning Yitzhak Rabin's assasination?
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On 30 January 1948, Gandhi was shot and killed while having his nightly public walk on the grounds of the Birla Bhavan (Birla House) in New Delhi. The assassin, Nathuram Godse, was a Hindu radical with links to the extremist Hindu Mahasabha, who held Gandhi responsible for weakening India by insisting upon a payment to Pakistan.Godse and his co-conspirator Narayan Apte were later tried and convicted; they were executed on 15 November 1949. Gandhi's memorial (or Samādhi) at Rāj Ghāt, New Delhi, bears the epigraph "Hē Ram", (Devanagari: हे ! राम or, He Rām), which may be translated as "Oh G-d". These are widely believed to be Gandhi's last words after he was shot, though the veracity of this statement has been disputed. Jawaharlal Nehru addressed the nation through radio
Godse assassinated Gandhi on January 30, 1948, approaching him during the evening prayer, bowing, and shooting him three times at close range with a Beretta semi-automatic pistol. Immediately after this, he surrendered himself to police
Similar to assasination of Yitzhak Rabin, it was a need of that time, many Hindus died during India-Pakistan formation,cause Gandhi gave part of India to Pakistani elements for them to create a Islamic Republic.
Again,another instance of how the Jews and Hindus have parallel and similar history.
Are you condoning Gandhi's Murder?
should i be condoning Yitzhak Rabin's assasination?
Answer my Question do you condone Gandhi's Murder
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Similar to assasination of Yitzhak Rabin, it was a need of that time, many Hindus died during India-Pakistan formation,cause Gandhi gave part of India to Pakistani elements for them to create a Islamic Republic.
Answer my Question do you condone Gandhi's Murder
i think you missed my previous post
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Similar to assasination of Yitzhak Rabin, it was a need of that time, many Hindus died during India-Pakistan formation,cause Gandhi gave part of India to Pakistani elements for them to create a Islamic Republic.
Answer my Question do you condone Gandhi's Murder
i think you missed my previous post
Why was it need for him to be killed?
What because you do did not agree with his views on certin subjects?
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Similar to assasination of Yitzhak Rabin, it was a need of that time, many Hindus died during India-Pakistan formation,cause Gandhi gave part of India to Pakistani elements for them to create a Islamic Republic.
Answer my Question do you condone Gandhi's Murder
i think you missed my previous post
Why was it need for him to be killed?
What because you do did not agree with his views on certin subjects?
He was a Muslim appeaser,Anti-Semitic.. i have posted my views on this Gandhi thing in this thread itself, couple of pages back.
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Similar to assasination of Yitzhak Rabin, it was a need of that time, many Hindus died during India-Pakistan formation,cause Gandhi gave part of India to Pakistani elements for them to create a Islamic Republic.
Answer my Question do you condone Gandhi's Murder
i think you missed my previous post
Why was it need for him to be killed?
What because you do did not agree with his views on certin subjects?
He was a Muslim appeaser,Anti-Semitic.. i have posted my views on this Gandhi thing in this thread itself, couple of pages back.
What did he do that was Anti-Semitic?
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People, regardless of what you all think of the RSS/Hindutva movement, please don't make Ghandi out to be a better person than he really was. In older Ask JTF shows, Chaim spoke out about how Ghandi was no friend of the Jews, and how he was against the creation of Israel because he felt bad for the fakestinians. Here's more about what Ghandi thought of Jews being killed by the Nazis:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-schaefer042803.asp
It is interesting, in this regard, to recall how Gandhi himself responded to the evil perpetrated by one of Saddam’s role models, Adolf Hitler. In November, 1938, responding to Jewish pleas that he endorse the Zionist cause so as to persuade the British government to open Palestine to immigrants fleeing Hitler’s persecution, Gandhi published an open letter flatly rejecting the request. While expressing the utmost “sympathy” with the Jews and lamenting “their age-old persecution,” Gandhi explained that “the cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me,” since “Palestine belongs to the Arabs.” Instead, he urged the Jews to “make that country their home where they are born.” To demand just treatment in the lands of their current residence while also demanding that Palestine be made their home, he argued, smacked of hypocrisy. Gandhi even went so far as to remark that “this cry for the national home affords a colorable justification for the German expulsion of the Jews.”
Of course, Gandhi added, “the German persecution of the Jews seems to have no parallel in history,” and “if there ever could be a justifiable war in the name of and for humanity, a war against Germany, to prevent the wanton persecution of a whole race, would be completely justified.” Hitler’s regime was showing the world “how efficiently violence can be worked when it is not hampered by any hypocrisy or weakness masquerading as humanitarianism.” Nonetheless, the Hindu leader rejected that notion, since “I do not believe in any war.” And for Britain, France, and America to declare war on Hitler’s regime would bring them “no inner joy, no inner strength.”
Having rejected both the plea that Palestine should be offered as a place of refuge for the Jews and the idea that the Western democracies should launch a war to overthrow Hitler, Gandhi offered only one avenue for the Jews to resist their persecution while preserving their “self-respect.” Were he a German Jew, Gandhi pronounced, he would challenge the Germans to shoot or imprison him rather than “submit to discriminating treatment.” Such “voluntary” suffering, practiced by all the Jews of Germany, would bring them, he promised, immeasurable “inner strength and joy.” Indeed, “if the Jewish mind could be prepared” for such suffering, even a massacre of all German Jews “could be turned into a day of thanksgiving and joy,” since “to the God-fearing, death has no terror.”
According to Gandhi, it would (for unexplained reasons) be “easier for the Jews than for the Czechs” (then facing German occupation) to follow his prescription. As inspiration, he offered “an exact parallel” in the campaign for Indian civil rights in South Africa that he had led decades earlier. Through their strength of suffering, he promised, “the German Jews will score a lasting victory over the German Gentiles in the sense that they will have converted [them] to an appreciation of human dignity.” And the same policy ought to be followed by Jews already in Palestine enduring Arab pogroms launched against them: if only they would “discard the help of the British bayonet” for their defense, and instead “offer themselves [to the Arabs] to be shot or thrown into the Dead Sea without raising a little finger,” the Jews would win a favorable “world opinion” regarding their “religious aspiration.”
In a thoughtful personal response dated February 24, 1939, the Jewish philosopher Martin Buber — who had himself emigrated to Israel from Germany a short time earlier and combined his Zionism with earnest efforts to peacefully reconcile Jewish and Arab claims in the Holy Land — chided Gandhi for offering advice to the Jews without any recognition of their real situation. The individual acts of persecution that Indians had suffered in South Africa in the 1890’s hardly compared, Buber noted, to the synagogue burnings and concentration camps instituted by Hitler’s regime. Nor was there any evidence that the many instances in which German Jews peacefully displayed strength of spirit in response to their persecutors had exercised any influence on the latter. While Gandhi exhorted them to bear “testimony” to the world by their conduct, the fate of the Jews in Germany was to experience only an “unobserved martyrdom” without effect.
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Lisa I don't like Ghandi either. He drank urine and did all kinds of other horrible third world practices. AH unfortunately yes he was anti-Semitic. However the RSS is based on the ideology of Hitler and will turn on the Jews sooner or later as well.
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People, regardless of what you all think of the RSS/Hindutva movement, please don't make Ghandi out to be a better person than he really was. In older Ask JTF shows, Chaim spoke out about how Ghandi was no friend of the Jews, and how he was against the creation of Israel because he felt bad for the fakestinians. Here's more about what Ghandi thought of Jews being killed by the Nazis:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-schaefer042803.asp
It is interesting, in this regard, to recall how Gandhi himself responded to the evil perpetrated by one of Saddam’s role models, Adolf Hitler. In November, 1938, responding to Jewish pleas that he endorse the Zionist cause so as to persuade the British government to open Palestine to immigrants fleeing Hitler’s persecution, Gandhi published an open letter flatly rejecting the request. While expressing the utmost “sympathy” with the Jews and lamenting “their age-old persecution,” Gandhi explained that “the cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me,” since “Palestine belongs to the Arabs.” Instead, he urged the Jews to “make that country their home where they are born.” To demand just treatment in the lands of their current residence while also demanding that Palestine be made their home, he argued, smacked of hypocrisy. Gandhi even went so far as to remark that “this cry for the national home affords a colorable justification for the German expulsion of the Jews.”
Of course, Gandhi added, “the German persecution of the Jews seems to have no parallel in history,” and “if there ever could be a justifiable war in the name of and for humanity, a war against Germany, to prevent the wanton persecution of a whole race, would be completely justified.” Hitler’s regime was showing the world “how efficiently violence can be worked when it is not hampered by any hypocrisy or weakness masquerading as humanitarianism.” Nonetheless, the Hindu leader rejected that notion, since “I do not believe in any war.” And for Britain, France, and America to declare war on Hitler’s regime would bring them “no inner joy, no inner strength.”
Having rejected both the plea that Palestine should be offered as a place of refuge for the Jews and the idea that the Western democracies should launch a war to overthrow Hitler, Gandhi offered only one avenue for the Jews to resist their persecution while preserving their “self-respect.” Were he a German Jew, Gandhi pronounced, he would challenge the Germans to shoot or imprison him rather than “submit to discriminating treatment.” Such “voluntary” suffering, practiced by all the Jews of Germany, would bring them, he promised, immeasurable “inner strength and joy.” Indeed, “if the Jewish mind could be prepared” for such suffering, even a massacre of all German Jews “could be turned into a day of thanksgiving and joy,” since “to the G-d-fearing, death has no terror.”
According to Gandhi, it would (for unexplained reasons) be “easier for the Jews than for the Czechs” (then facing German occupation) to follow his prescription. As inspiration, he offered “an exact parallel” in the campaign for Indian civil rights in South Africa that he had led decades earlier. Through their strength of suffering, he promised, “the German Jews will score a lasting victory over the German Gentiles in the sense that they will have converted [them] to an appreciation of human dignity.” And the same policy ought to be followed by Jews already in Palestine enduring Arab pogroms launched against them: if only they would “discard the help of the British bayonet” for their defense, and instead “offer themselves [to the Arabs] to be shot or thrown into the Dead Sea without raising a little finger,” the Jews would win a favorable “world opinion” regarding their “religious aspiration.”
In a thoughtful personal response dated February 24, 1939, the Jewish philosopher Martin Buber — who had himself emigrated to Israel from Germany a short time earlier and combined his Zionism with earnest efforts to peacefully reconcile Jewish and Arab claims in the Holy Land — chided Gandhi for offering advice to the Jews without any recognition of their real situation. The individual acts of persecution that Indians had suffered in South Africa in the 1890’s hardly compared, Buber noted, to the synagogue burnings and concentration camps instituted by Hitler’s regime. Nor was there any evidence that the many instances in which German Jews peacefully displayed strength of spirit in response to their persecutors had exercised any influence on the latter. While Gandhi exhorted them to bear “testimony” to the world by their conduct, the fate of the Jews in Germany was to experience only an “unobserved martyrdom” without effect.
thanks for sharing, Now Gandhi has fallen down more for me.
btw here,
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Nathuram.jpg)
Group photo of people accused in the murder of Mahatma Gandhi. Standing: Shankar Kistaiya, Gopal Godse, Madanlal Pahwa, Digambar Badge (Approver). Seated: Narayan Apte, Vinayak D. Savarkar, Nathuram Godse, Vishnu Karkare
Vinayak D. Savarkar was the father of Hindutva movement, one who always opposed Gandhi, He came clean during the Investigation and Conspiracy of Gandhi assassination. I have mentioned about Savarkars support for Israel's Jewish land in this thread.Interesting isnt it?
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Lisa I don't like Ghandi either. He drank urine and did all kinds of other horrible third world practices. AH unfortunately yes he was anti-Semitic. However the RSS is based on the ideology of Hitler and will turn on the Jews sooner or later as well.
some one already cleared that up, using a Swastika does not mean they are Nazi supporters, dont fall for Islamic propoganda.
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http://www.sanghparivar.org/wiki/rashtriya-swayamsevak-sangh
RSS website..
look for "Position on Israel and Zionism"
Position on Israel and Zionism
A recent issue of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS)-backed weekly Organiser has gone out of its way to support the Zionist cause, arguing that the recent violence was the result of Palestinian intransigence.http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1722/17220140.htm. This follows the rise in support for Israel in India in recent years.Israel's War and India: Aftershocks. This has invited scathing attacks on the party from anti-Zionist elements.http://ghadar.insaf.net/June2004/MainPages/zionism.htm.
In addition. RSS welcomed the visit of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to India in 2003.Sharon's visit was widely condemned by the left-wing parties and MuslimsPress spotlight on Sharon's India visit,BBC.
The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh unilaterally condemned these protests and statements.RSS slams Left for opposing Sharon's visitGoogle Cache of above. R.S.S spokesperson Ram Madhav said:
The entire world acknowledges that Israel has effectively and ruthlessly countered terror in the Middle East. Since India and Israel are both fighting a proxy war against terrorism, therefore, we should learn a lesson or two from them. We need to have close cooperation with them in this field.
The R.S.S newspaper "Panchjanya" dubbed those advocating friendship with Pakistan as ones responsible for encouraging terrorist activities in India, and described the visit of Ariel Sharon as an opportunity for India to get closure to Israel and fight terrorism jointly .
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http://www.sanghparivar.org/wiki/rashtriya-swayamsevak-sangh
RSS website..
look for "Position on Israel and Zionism"
Position on Israel and Zionism
A recent issue of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS)-backed weekly Organiser has gone out of its way to support the Zionist cause, arguing that the recent violence was the result of Palestinian intransigence.http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1722/17220140.htm. This follows the rise in support for Israel in India in recent years.Israel's War and India: Aftershocks. This has invited scathing attacks on the party from anti-Zionist elements.http://ghadar.insaf.net/June2004/MainPages/zionism.htm.
In addition. RSS welcomed the visit of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to India in 2003.Sharon's visit was widely condemned by the left-wing parties and MuslimsPress spotlight on Sharon's India visit,BBC.
The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh unilaterally condemned these protests and statements.RSS slams Left for opposing Sharon's visitGoogle Cache of above. R.S.S spokesperson Ram Madhav said:
The entire world acknowledges that Israel has effectively and ruthlessly countered terror in the Middle East. Since India and Israel are both fighting a proxy war against terrorism, therefore, we should learn a lesson or two from them. We need to have close cooperation with them in this field.
The R.S.S newspaper "Panchjanya" dubbed those advocating friendship with Pakistan as ones responsible for encouraging terrorist activities in India, and described the visit of Ariel Sharon as an opportunity for India to get closure to Israel and fight terrorism jointly .
Hmmm.... so you are a hater of Pak666 and are advocating against the Islamic Terrorism. This does not goes well with the world subjugated by Euro-Communism and is considered a nazi pure racism.
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http://www.sanghparivar.org/wiki/rashtriya-swayamsevak-sangh
RSS website..
look for "Position on Israel and Zionism"
Position on Israel and Zionism
A recent issue of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS)-backed weekly Organiser has gone out of its way to support the Zionist cause,
Hindu Zionist,
there is an obvious alliance.. between hindus, jews, sikhs, christians, even decent atheists!
From what I know of Sikhs, they are really great citizens. How do the right wing hindu groups(eg BJP?) treat them, and what do Sikhs think of them?
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http://www.sanghparivar.org/wiki/rashtriya-swayamsevak-sangh
RSS website..
look for "Position on Israel and Zionism"
Position on Israel and Zionism
A recent issue of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS)-backed weekly Organiser has gone out of its way to support the Zionist cause,
Hindu Zionist,
there is an obvious alliance.. between hindus, jews, sikhs, christians, even decent atheists!
From what I know of Sikhs, they are really great citizens. How do the right wing hindu groups(eg BJP?) treat them, and what do Sikhs think of them?
There is a political party of Sikh named Shiromani Akali Dal which is ruling in the Indian State of Punjab. They are in alliance with the BJP.Clears almost everything.
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Statement of RSS chief views on minority
http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20081130/818/tnl-muslims-not-a-minority-parsis-and-je.html
Muslims not a minority, Parsis and Jews are: Sudarshan
Sun, Nov 30 12:27 PM
Patna, Nov 30 (IANS) The Muslim community in India is not a minority and Parsis and Jews are the 'real minority', Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) chief K.C. Sudarshan has said.
'Muslims are not a minority. They are being treated as a minority. It is part of an appeasement policy,' Sudarshan said Saturday at Muzaffarpur, about 70 km from here.
He said that despite their small numbers, Parsis and Jews neither demanded reservation nor special treatment.
'Muslims should not be described as a minority. It is wrong to say so,' Sudarshan told a meeting of RSS activists.
He claimed that 99.99 percent of Muslims and even Christians shared the 'same blood and same ancestors' with the Hindus. 'They have only changed the way of worship.'
Sudarshan, who is on a week-long visit to Bihar, said that a community should be treated as a minority if it migrates from another country, not when 'your ancestors belonged to this country'.
'India was home to the Muslims and their roots were in this country. How can they become a minority?' he asked.
With some 140 million Muslims, India is home to the world's third largest Islamic population after Indonesia and Pakistean.
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Parsi = Zoroastrianism
RSS would even call for official minority status and special privileges for Parsis and Jews in India, if they get response from the other side.
Link for Rubystars,
http://in.news.yahoo.com/32/20081120/1066/twl-uk-gives-clean-chit-to-rss-vhp.html
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@Rubystars: So far I believe you mostly quoted articled from very biased sources. Can you find any factual documents to the extent of religious persecutions in India and more importantly to the involvement of the BJP and its associated organizations in such actions ?
There are cases of violence and oppression of Hindus on Hindus, there are all sort of malicious activity which is typical to a third world country, which India to a large extent still is. I really never heard of systematic targeting of Christians in India and If there is such activity taking place over there (against any group save for the Muslims) and if the BJP is turning a blind eye rather than stop such actions than I don't think JTF should be associated with such organizations.
I do think India IS a Hindu country, if you factor out the Muslims which do not belong there, the Hindus constitute over 90% of the total population. As long as they respect the freedom of religion of other people and in some cases may be give a more formal recognition to local religions like the Sikhs in their states within the federation I see no problem.I think the national holiday's in India should be whatever the Hindu holiday's are, not Christmas or some foreign religion. And also I believe India has right to forbid foreign missionary activity.
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Hindu Zionist, just so you know, the swaztika symbol, regardless of how old it really is, or where it originated is detested by Jews and others. It represents for them the genocide conducted by the Nazis, and their evil ideology.
Now you could say that the Indians had that symbol first, which is true. But why would they want anything to do with after the way the Nazis used it?
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Hindu Zionist, just so you know, the swaztika symbol, regardless of how old it really is, or where it originated is detested by Jews and others. It represents for them the genocide conducted by the Nazis, and their evil ideology.
Now you could say that the Indians had that symbol first, which is true. But why would they want anything to do with after the way the Nazis used it?
the Swastika and the Aum Symbol are holy religious symbol of Hindus, during festives Hindus decorate their home with these symbols
Many Hindus do not even know it was used by Hitler/Nazis..
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7641/tokenzdiwidl0010of8pn0.jpg
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/2113/diwaliswastikalh8.jpg
My gf has it in her jewelery lol , neways .. Do you think we should stop using it just cause Hitler degraded it? its like Christians giving up the Cross due to KKK misusing them.
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Gandhi was an anti-zionist, anti-Indian pro-muslim cretin and he his personally responsible for the muslim atrocity that is Pakistan and for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of non-muslims since 1947. He should have been eliminated alot sooner.
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Remember Lisa, when I told you that sooner or later they'd be painting our forums with their nasty fylfots? I'm locking this topic until another moderator or an admin can deal with this.
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Hindu Zionist, if Indians want to continue using that symbol in their own country, that's up to them. However, being that this is first and foremost, a Jewish forum, I'm going to remove those pictures.
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Thank you Lisa. Regardless of the intention those images can hurt people who lost family.
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The swastika was stolen by Hitler and the Nazis from India because it was an ancient symbol that Hitler said was Aryan. He desecrated this Indian religious symbol and made it a German one when it has always been Indian.
Also, Christian missionaries should be focusing on former communist countries such as China, where there is actually a religious vacuum. There are people in China who need religious direction as there are in Eastern Europe and much of Russia. India has let many people live there but Hindusim has been the oldest faith. There have been problems between Sieks and Hindus but the BJP wants a religious Hindu state just as Kahanists want a true Jewish state in Israel. Israel has and always will let the Armenian Christians and others live in peace within their country. India will do the same and some acts of violence among more than a billion people is something that happens although it shouldn't. The Muslims are behind the anti-Indian propaganda that we get in the US.
Liberal Christians have allied themselves and stirred up trouble with Maoist terrorists in India to help the lower castes. Muslims have also tried to stir up problems among the lower castes to overthrow the Hindu society. Liberal Christians were also involved in helping the Maoist terrorist movement in Nepal overthrown the kingdom there which was endorsed by liberal Christian Jimmy Carter just this year. Also, Christians have caused some of the tension in India by giving food and housing for conversions. That tactic is not Christian and not right and similar to Jews for Jesus. Real Christians want to save souls and not overthrow governments and cause civil strife. I don't recall Mother Theresa trading souls for food and was always welcome in India and inspired many to become Christian because of her charity. (I hope I don't find out she was pro Fakestinian from someone here though). Christian missions are done by the best of the best but some of the practices in India are not right.
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Christians who are living in India are Indian citizens too and deserve rights, safety and respect. It is a religion that is growing in popularity among the Dalits and the RSS doesn't like that. They don't believe an individual has a right to choose.
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Hindu Zionist, if Indians want to continue using that symbol in their own country, that's up to them. However, being that this is first and foremost, a Jewish forum, I'm going to remove those pictures.
Thank you Lisa. Regardless of the intention those images can hurt people who lost family.
i respect the decision.
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But then do they have a right to choose in Israel as well and try to convert people there when they don't want them to? What's the difference?
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And you are 100% right that Christians there deserve to live in safety and security. No question about that.
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But then do they have a right to choose in Israel as well and try to convert people there when they don't want them to? What's the difference?
The Jews as a people are defined by their religion. Indians are Indians regardless of religion. Hinduism is not the only faith of India, not even the only native faith.
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And you are 100% right that Christians there deserve to live in safety and security. No question about that.
Then don't support the Hindu nationalists who slaughter them.
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Hinduism has always been the faith of India and they have been subject to Christian and Muslim invasions. There are druids and Christians who live in Israel and they are allowed to live there.
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Christians who are living in India are Indian citizens too and deserve rights, safety and respect. It is a religion that is growing in popularity among the Dalits and the RSS doesn't like that. They don't believe an individual has a right to choose.
many RSS members are Dalit,there are no prejudices against anyone.
Can we please stick to the topic of the thread? helping the Chabad House of Mumbai.
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Hinduism has always been the faith of India and they have been subject to Christian and Muslim invasions. There are druids and Christians who live in Israel and they are allowed to live there.
When Britain controlled India they put a stop to some of the more horrific customs or at least reduced them. I think Indians were better off under British rule. Nevertheless if India is to be independent it needs to recognize all its people, not just the Hindus.
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And you are 100% right that Christians there deserve to live in safety and security. No question about that.
Then don't support the Hindu nationalists who slaughter them.
The Hindus don't want to have their religion erased by conversions too and they don't want liberal Christians helping Maoist terrorists.
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And you are 100% right that Christians there deserve to live in safety and security. No question about that.
Then don't support the Hindu nationalists who slaughter them.
but they will support the Anti-Semitic Indian socialist government?
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And you are 100% right that Christians there deserve to live in safety and security. No question about that.
Then don't support the Hindu nationalists who slaughter them.
The Hindus don't want to have their religion erased by conversions too and they don't want liberal Christians helping Maoist terrorists.
Don't make excuses for attacks on innocent, unarmed people!
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And you are 100% right that Christians there deserve to live in safety and security. No question about that.
Then don't support the Hindu nationalists who slaughter them.
but they will support the Anti-Semitic Indian socialist government?
I don't agree with that government either. I don't think India is very well off at all right now no matter which party takes power.
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The British slaughtered thousands of unarmed Indians and invaded their nation and made them 2nd class citizens in their own land. That same British government also committed genocide against the Irish by sending food out of Ireland when people were starving.
I will submit that the British did have a great influence on the education systems around the world and stopped some bad practices but they were still not welcome.
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I do not think that Gandhi was EVIL.. He was just short sided and myopic with his hate against the British Rule... that he ignored the threat of Islam... which turned out to be the larger problem in the longer run.
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And you are 100% right that Christians there deserve to live in safety and security. No question about that.
Then don't support the Hindu nationalists who slaughter them.
The Hindus don't want to have their religion erased by conversions too and they don't want liberal Christians helping Maoist terrorists.
You're right that anyone who kills unarmed Christian civilians is evil. The BJP though, wants Hindu pride and nationalism back, not the murder of anyone. Those crimes are slander on the BJP and not connected to them.
Don't make excuses for attacks on innocent, unarmed people!
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The British slaughtered thousands of unarmed Indians and invaded their nation and made them 2nd class citizens in their own land. That same British government also committed genocide against the Irish by sending food out of Ireland when people were starving.
I will submit that the British did have a great influence on the education systems around the world and stopped some bad practices but they were still not welcome.
I'd like you and others to answer this for me. How can we say we don't want America and the West to become third world banana republics, then turn around and buddy up to a third world banana republic? This makes no sense to me.
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Let me try that again. The liberal Christians are also responsible for helping the Maoists terrorists. What nation should put up with that though?
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You're right that anyone who kills unarmed Christian civilians is evil. The BJP though, wants Hindu pride and nationalism back, not the murder of anyone. Those crimes are slander on the BJP and not connected to them.
Tell that to Christians in Orissa. See if they agree.
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Let me try that again. The liberal Christians are also responsible for helping the Maoists terrorists. What nation should put up with that though?
The Hindu nationalists think India should be a Hindu state, but where does that leave minorities? Where should they turn? Who will save them from the beasts who come to beat them, murder them and rape their wives and kill their children?
Hinduism must have its own form of Taqqiya because I've certainly seen a lot of double talk from the Hindus.
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why is the title "(Warning: Swazis in Thread)"
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why is the title "(Warning: Swazis in Thread)"
I put the warning in when the pictures were still visible because those images can hurt people.
I can remove it from the main thread now.
One of my friends sent me this text from wikipedia:
Following his assassination of Gandhi, he was put on trial beginning May 27, 1948. During the trial, he did not defend any charge and openly admitted that he killed Gandhi. On November 8, 1949 Godse was sentenced to death for the killing. Godse's legal team was savaged by critics for not introducing considerable evidence that their client was mentally unbalanced and/or manipulated by others. Among those calling for commutation of the death sentence for both defendants were Nehru and Gandhi's two sons who felt that the two men on trial were pawns of RSS higher-ups and, in any case, executing their fathers's killers would dishonor his memory and legacy which included a staunch opposition to the death penalty. Godse was hanged at Ambala Jail on November 15, 1949,along with Narayan Apte, the other conspirator. Savarkar was also charged with conspiracy in the assassination of Gandhi, but was acquitted and subsequently released. Godse stipulated that his ashes were not to be deposited in a body of water according to Hindu dictates, but rather were to be held in storage until they could be deposited in The Sindhu after Pakistan had been reunited with India. For years, his brother kept Godse's ashes over his fireplace and held an annual salute to "the hero martyrs" on the anniversary of the assassination.
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Let me try that again. The liberal Christians are also responsible for helping the Maoists terrorists. What nation should put up with that though?
The Hindu nationalists think India should be a Hindu state, but where does that leave minorities? Where should they turn? Who will save them from the beasts who come to beat them, murder them and rape their wives and kill their children?
Hinduism must have its own form of Taqqiya because I've certainly seen a lot of double talk from the Hindus.
So according to you HIndus are uncivilized and they need western forces to keep them civilized?
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It is becase Hindu,Christians are fighting among themself, Muslims are becoming stronger, Let not digress from the issue at hand.
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why is the title "(Warning: Swazis in Thread)"
Rubystars was just trying to take into account the feeling of Jewish members here.
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The British slaughtered thousands of unarmed Indians and invaded their nation and made them 2nd class citizens in their own land. That same British government also committed genocide against the Irish by sending food out of Ireland when people were starving.
I will submit that the British did have a great influence on the education systems around the world and stopped some bad practices but they were still not welcome.
I'd like you and others to answer this for me. How can we say we don't want America and the West to become third world banana republics, then turn around and buddy up to a third world banana republic? This makes no sense to me.
I don't want all of India or any nation to move their citizens here. America should be strong, culuturaly unique but can coexist with other nations. I don't want America to start conquering other nations unless they are compeltely evil. I respect Indians, they have always been hard working and respectful people. I know there are horrible problems there but as with Obama's election, we have problems too. I also think righteous, nationalist, non Nazi movements are what is needed for the coming onslaught of Muslims. I don't agree with Hinduism as a religion but they don't threaten me and they haven't been bent on regional conquest since the year 800 or something.
I think Christians who have lived in the north becasue nof the Portugese colonies there, should have their religion respected and fully practiced. I want to see Christians reach out to people and become clser to G-d but I don't like the tactice in India and they reek of hippy-liberal, problem starting liberation theology in many places. I want to live to respect other people as long as they are peaceful and have basic morals.
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why is the title "(Warning: Swazis in Thread)"
I put the warning in when the pictures were still visible because those images can hurt people.
I can remove it from the main thread now.
One of my friends sent me this text from wikipedia:
Following his assassination of Gandhi, he was put on trial beginning May 27, 1948. During the trial, he did not defend any charge and openly admitted that he killed Gandhi. On November 8, 1949 Godse was sentenced to death for the killing. Godse's legal team was savaged by critics for not introducing considerable evidence that their client was mentally unbalanced and/or manipulated by others. Among those calling for commutation of the death sentence for both defendants were Nehru and Gandhi's two sons who felt that the two men on trial were pawns of RSS higher-ups and, in any case, executing their fathers's killers would dishonor his memory and legacy which included a staunch opposition to the death penalty. Godse was hanged at Ambala Jail on November 15, 1949,along with Narayan Apte, the other conspirator. Savarkar was also charged with conspiracy in the assassination of Gandhi, but was acquitted and subsequently released. Godse stipulated that his ashes were not to be deposited in a body of water according to Hindu dictates, but rather were to be held in storage until they could be deposited in The Sindhu after Pakistan had been reunited with India. For years, his brother kept Godse's ashes over his fireplace and held an annual salute to "the hero martyrs" on the anniversary of the assassination.
ok thanks for clarifying abt the title.
i know about that wiki link.
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Let me try that again. The liberal Christians are also responsible for helping the Maoists terrorists. What nation should put up with that though?
The Hindu nationalists think India should be a Hindu state, but where does that leave minorities? Where should they turn? Who will save them from the beasts who come to beat them, murder them and rape their wives and kill their children?
Hinduism must have its own form of Taqqiya because I've certainly seen a lot of double talk from the Hindus.
So according to you HIndus are uncivilized and they need western forces to keep them civilized?
What do you call huge levels of female infanticide and abortion? Civilized? What do you call the temple of Karni Mata where a kitchen is dedicated to feeding filthy rats while the poor of India go to bed hungry? Civilized? What do you call it when cows roam the streets and people starve watching them pass by rather than make them into hamburgers? What do you call it when you have a brutal caste system that says some people, human beings, just as good as any other human being, are deemd "untouchable"? What do you call it when brides were burned if families couldn't come up with the right amount of dowry? What do you call it when a widow wasn't allowed to remarry, even if they got married as a child and didn't remember their marriage ceremony?
India has big problems and I certainly think they need to work on that. I do think every people should govern themselves if they can, but I don't know if every people is equally capable of such. Certainly the British did their best to put a halt to some of the more horrific things like Bride and Widow burning.
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India is also very, very different from other thrid world nations. They are probably not even third world anymore. I wouldn't compare them to Honudras, Vietnam or Burundi by any means. They have also treated Jews very well compared to most nations.
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Let me try that again. The liberal Christians are also responsible for helping the Maoists terrorists. What nation should put up with that though?
The Hindu nationalists think India should be a Hindu state, but where does that leave minorities? Where should they turn? Who will save them from the beasts who come to beat them, murder them and rape their wives and kill their children?
Hinduism must have its own form of Taqqiya because I've certainly seen a lot of double talk from the Hindus.
So according to you HIndus are uncivilized and they need western forces to keep them civilized?
What do you call huge levels of female infanticide and abortion? Civilized? What do you call the temple of Karni Mata where a kitchen is dedicated to feeding filthy rats while the poor of India go to bed hungry? Civilized? What do you call it when cows roam the streets and people starve watching them pass by rather than make them into hamburgers? What do you call it when you have a brutal caste system that says some people, human beings, just as good as any other human being, are deemd "untouchable"? What do you call it when brides were burned if families couldn't come up with the right amount of dowry? What do you call it when a widow wasn't allowed to remarry, even if they got married as a child and didn't remember their marriage ceremony?
India has big problems and I certainly think they need to work on that. I do think every people should govern themselves if they can, but I don't know if every people is equally capable of such. Certainly the British did their best to put a halt to some of the more horrific things like Bride and Widow burning.
This is getting kind of mean spirited here. I have a lot of Hindu friends... and they are not barbarics at all. Sure... some of their customs are strange... but don't lump them in with the scum of the planet.
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Hinduism has always been the faith of India and they have been subject to Christian and Muslim invasions. There are druids and Christians who live in Israel and they are allowed to live there.
When Britain controlled India they put a stop to some of the more horrific customs or at least reduced them. I think Indians were better off under British rule. Nevertheless if India is to be independent it needs to recognize all its people, not just the Hindus.
Independence and integrity and existence of India are not conditional and not subjective. If the matters come to such an impasse, then Hindus and Sikhs all etc. will forget all their differences and castes and all will automatically get converted to priests and warriors and G_D willing shall fight against the evil till it is completely uprooted and eliminated from the earth, whatsoever it means.
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Let me try that again. The liberal Christians are also responsible for helping the Maoists terrorists. What nation should put up with that though?
The Hindu nationalists think India should be a Hindu state, but where does that leave minorities? Where should they turn? Who will save them from the beasts who come to beat them, murder them and rape their wives and kill their children?
Hinduism must have its own form of Taqqiya because I've certainly seen a lot of double talk from the Hindus.
So according to you HIndus are uncivilized and they need western forces to keep them civilized?
What do you call huge levels of female infanticide and abortion? Civilized? What do you call the temple of Karni Mata where a kitchen is dedicated to feeding filthy rats while the poor of India go to bed hungry? Civilized? What do you call it when cows roam the streets and people starve watching them pass by rather than make them into hamburgers? What do you call it when you have a brutal caste system that says some people, human beings, just as good as any other human being, are deemd "untouchable"? What do you call it when brides were burned if families couldn't come up with the right amount of dowry? What do you call it when a widow wasn't allowed to remarry, even if they got married as a child and didn't remember their marriage ceremony?
India has big problems and I certainly think they need to work on that. I do think every people should govern themselves if they can, but I don't know if every people is equally capable of such. Certainly the British did their best to put a halt to some of the more horrific things like Bride and Widow burning.
i undersatnd your concern abt hindu women..etc i would liked to clarify that these customs have no mention in any holy books of Hindus, it came due to the situation pervalent at that time.. under Moghul Islamic rule.. will have to write in brief, this is not the thread for that, maybe some other time.
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I'm not mean spirited at all. Everything I've stated in this thread you can look up for yourself. I don't have a problem with Indians or even nice Hindu people. I just have a problem with the Hindu militants who hurt minorities. I don't agree with the Hindu religion, that's true, and there are rituals I do think the Indian government should forcibly put a stop to, but I don't hate Indians. I've been defending Indians in this entire thread, Sikhs and Christians who live in India.
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The British were the first nation to start a concentration camp in the Boer War in 1902 and killed women and children whne they were losing. They passed the "corn laws" in Ireland where they shipped corn out of the country for profit while people starved to death. The British refused to grant Israel nationhood until the Irgun made it happen. I don't have to tell you about the American experience where they shot unarmed Americans in Boston and hung Americans fighting for freedom. I still know that Britain had a huge positive impact culutrally, scientifically, economically that made the world a better place at the same time.
India keeping cows sacred and not eating animals I find totally not for me but I don't see how it's a problem. The rat temple is always on TV because it's so wierd. We have people in America who worship comets and also have offshoots from Christianity that are totally off the wall. I think India banned the practice of burning the widows a long time ago although ti may still happen.
India can't be singled out for abortions from the US or the West.
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People, please let's not all get into a fight here.
This whole thread is becoming very awkward, and I don't want that to happen. There are some things we might have to agree to disagree on.
As you all know, JTF wants a Torah-true Kahanist Jewish state of Israel. That means neutralizing and getting rid of the Arab fifth column threat. India is in a similar position to Israel, even though they're a bigger country. So with all the terrorist attacks they've faced, I can't really blame them for wanting India to be a Hindu country where Sikhs, Jains and Christians and other non-troublemakers can freely practice their religions.
As a Jew, I don't like seeing any religious group persecuted. However, I should also remind everyone that JTF vehemently opposes missionizing to Jews. So I personally will not criticize Hindu Zionist for wanting the same thing in his own country. Now with that being said, I don't think JTF should align with any political party that persecutes minorities, since Jews have always been a minority.
We need to think about this. We want America to remain a First World country (as in mostly white, with Judeo-Christian values). We want a Torah true Kahanist Jewish state in Israel. We want Europe to remain non-Muslim. So while we won't agree with Hindu Zionist on everything, we should support them against the Muslim threat.
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India is targeting girls for abortions specifically. Indian women can be beaten if they give birth to a girl.
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I think India is coming to a new part of its history.
Everything from corruption to the treatment of women probably will change. Maybe there will be a Hindu-type reformation that will treat the castes better. Whatever happens, a weak India is bad for all of us because it has 250 million Muslims and Muslim Bangladesh, China and Muslim Pakistan are at its front door. Christians would be in real trouble if it became a Muslim country as the Christians are in trouble in Pakistan. The BJP has to address the Christian-Hindu problem. The other option is the Congress party, which has many Muslims and has become an Obama type party with leadership from people like Indira Gandhi. They will ruin India and trun it towards green socialism which would be a disaster.
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India is targeting girls for abortions specifically. Indian women can be beaten if they give birth to a girl.
many Indian women have ruled India, if what you are saying was really a serious case in India, then Female rule wouldnt have been seen in India. I would like you to google Bollywood.
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People, please let's not all get into a fight here. We need to think about this. We want America to remain a First World country (as in mostly white, with Judeo-Christian values). We want a Torah true Kahanist Jewish state in Israel. We want Europe to remain white, non-Muslim. So while we won't agree with Hindu Zionist on everything, we should support them against the Muslim threat.
Lisa I don't like Muslims but one of the videos I saw was about how they had thrown acid on a Muslim woman. You could see the burn marks all over her body. The Hindu nationalists attack unarmed minorities like Christian pastors and women.
In one of the videos there was a Christian Indian woman who said she'd been raped and told she would have to give up her Christian faith and become a Hindu, but she refused, and they hurt her badly. As she told her story she started to cry. I stand with that brave and loyal woman, not with these Hindu nationalists who refuse to acknowledge the rights of their fellow Indians.
India is not a Hindu land. It's a land of Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Jews, Buddhists, and others. They have no right to force people to be Hindu or to impose a Hindu government on the minorities.
This is not like Israel at all. God gave Israel to the Jewish people. That's the difference.
I call the RSS supporters liars because they know they are lying and hiding the truth. I care about our members and don't want them to be deceived.
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India is targeting girls for abortions specifically. Indian women can be beaten if they give birth to a girl.
Thats horrible but Planned Parenthood does the same here.
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India is targeting girls for abortions specifically. Indian women can be beaten if they give birth to a girl.
Thats horrible but Planned Parenthood does the same here.
They are evil and opposed by JTF.
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People, please let's not all get into a fight here. We need to think about this. We want America to remain a First World country (as in mostly white, with Judeo-Christian values). We want a Torah true Kahanist Jewish state in Israel. We want Europe to remain white, non-Muslim. So while we won't agree with Hindu Zionist on everything, we should support them against the Muslim threat.
Lisa I don't like Muslims but one of the videos I saw was about how they had thrown acid on a Muslim woman. You could see the burn marks all over her body. The Hindu nationalists attack unarmed minorities like Christian pastors and women.
In one of the videos there was a Christian Indian woman who said she'd been raped and told she would have to give up her Christian faith and become a Hindu, but she refused, and they hurt her badly. As she told her story she started to cry. I stand with that brave and loyal woman, not with these Hindu nationalists who refuse to acknowledge the rights of their fellow Indians.
India is not a Hindu land. It's a land of Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Jews, Buddhists, and others. They have no right to force people to be Hindu or to impose a Hindu government on the minorities.
This is not like Israel at all. G-d gave Israel to the Jewish people. That's the difference.
I call the RSS supporters liars because they know they are lying and hiding the truth. I care about our members and don't want them to be deceived.
first of all you have turned a blind eye on my links, where the UK government declared RSS like organisations as not being involved in Hindu-Christian violence.
Secondly,the Muslim women thing, i would which video you saw.. the documentary "Final Solution" It was made by Commie with Muslim funding. Do you even know why Hindus reacted this way? cause 59 Hindu civilians including women and children were burnt alive by Islamic terrorists who lived in near by villages and protected by their families.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_violence
and yes Christians,Sikhs,Parsis,Jews everyone can live in Hindu State of India, just like they live in Jewish State of Israel.
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People, please let's not all get into a fight here. We need to think about this. We want America to remain a First World country (as in mostly white, with Judeo-Christian values). We want a Torah true Kahanist Jewish state in Israel. We want Europe to remain white, non-Muslim. So while we won't agree with Hindu Zionist on everything, we should support them against the Muslim threat.
Lisa I don't like Muslims but one of the videos I saw was about how they had thrown acid on a Muslim woman. You could see the burn marks all over her body. The Hindu nationalists attack unarmed minorities like Christian pastors and women.
In one of the videos there was a Christian Indian woman who said she'd been raped and told she would have to give up her Christian faith and become a Hindu, but she refused, and they hurt her badly. As she told her story she started to cry. I stand with that brave and loyal woman, not with these Hindu nationalists who refuse to acknowledge the rights of their fellow Indians.
India is not a Hindu land. It's a land of Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Jews, Buddhists, and others. They have no right to force people to be Hindu or to impose a Hindu government on the minorities.
This is not like Israel at all. G-d gave Israel to the Jewish people. That's the difference.
I call the RSS supporters liars because they know they are lying and hiding the truth. I care about our members and don't want them to be deceived.
Hindus have been the orginal and first faith in India. There have been atrocities committed against Christians but the reason they have been pushed by the NYT, ABC CBS, CNN is because Muslims want Christians and Hindus to turn against each other. Every article and video about oppressed minorities mentions the Muslims who are supposedly oppressed in India. You have to see more Muslim propaganda to see why they are pushing the Christian angle. They hope Christians will turn against Hindus and then Muslims can say, "see we belive in Jesus too." They want to divide and conquer and have an eager ear from the pro Muslim media.
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You have an excuse for every evil thing your people do HZ.
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India is targeting girls for abortions specifically. Indian women can be beaten if they give birth to a girl.
Thats horrible but Planned Parenthood does the same here.
They are evil and opposed by JTF.
and they don't represent America
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You have an excuse for every evil thing your people do.
and you seem to have no faith in American,UK,India, Israeli government which give visas to RSS/BJP organisation/leaders and allow them to operate in their shores, and rightly so.. they are not the trouble makers. Muslims are
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Tell me this, when has there been a modern nationalist movement that hasn't been anti-Semitic in some fashion? Even Zionism has been split between the real Zionists like Chaim and the fake Zionists like Sharon.
Do you really think this Hindu Nationalism will end differently?
You have an excuse for every evil thing your people do.
and you seem to have no faith in American,UK,India, Israeli government which give visas to RSS/BJP organisation/leaders and allow them to operate in their shores, and rightly so.. they are not the trouble makers. Muslims are
You're both just as evil to me.
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People, please let's not all get into a fight here.
This whole thread is becoming very awkward, and I don't want that to happen. There are some things we might have to agree to disagree on.
As you all know, JTF wants a Torah-true Kahanist Jewish state of Israel. That means neutralizing and getting rid of the Arab fifth column threat. India is in a similar position to Israel, even though they're a bigger country. So with all the terrorist attacks they've faced, I can't really blame them for wanting India to be a Hindu country where Sikhs, Jains and Christians and other non-troublemakers can freely practice their religions.
As a Jew, I don't like seeing any religious group persecuted. However, I should also remind everyone that JTF vehemently opposes missionizing to Jews. So I personally will not criticize Hindu Zionist for wanting the same thing in his own country. Now with that being said, I don't think JTF should align with any political party that persecutes minorities, since Jews have always been a minority.
We need to think about this. We want America to remain a First World country (as in mostly white, with Judeo-Christian values). We want a Torah true Kahanist Jewish state in Israel. We want Europe to remain white, non-Muslim. So while we won't agree with Hindu Zionist on everything, we should support them against the Muslim threat.
Lisa. Thanks. We have to agree to disagree.
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You have an excuse for every evil thing your people do.
and you seem to have no faith in American,UK,India, Israeli government which give visas to RSS/BJP organisation/leaders and allow them to operate in their shores, and rightly so.. they are not the trouble makers. Muslims are
I think you could end the argument if you said that the hindu militants who commit murder belong behind bars (if not executed) and that the RSS wish to have nothing to do with them or with such actions.
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You have an excuse for every evil thing your people do.
and you seem to have no faith in American,UK,India, Israeli government which give visas to RSS/BJP organisation/leaders and allow them to operate in their shores, and rightly so.. they are not the trouble makers. Muslims are
I think you could end the argument if you said that the hindu militants who commit murder belong behind bars (if not executed) and that the RSS wish to have nothing to do with them or with such actions.
The RSS are some of the militants.
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People, please let's not all get into a fight here.
This whole thread is becoming very awkward, and I don't want that to happen. There are some things we might have to agree to disagree on.
As you all know, JTF wants a Torah-true Kahanist Jewish state of Israel. That means neutralizing and getting rid of the Arab fifth column threat. India is in a similar position to Israel, even though they're a bigger country. So with all the terrorist attacks they've faced, I can't really blame them for wanting India to be a Hindu country where Sikhs, Jains and Christians and other non-troublemakers can freely practice their religions.
As a Jew, I don't like seeing any religious group persecuted. However, I should also remind everyone that JTF vehemently opposes missionizing to Jews. So I personally will not criticize Hindu Zionist for wanting the same thing in his own country. Now with that being said, I don't think JTF should align with any political party that persecutes minorities, since Jews have always been a minority.
We need to think about this. We want America to remain a First World country (as in mostly white, with Judeo-Christian values). We want a Torah true Kahanist Jewish state in Israel. We want Europe to remain white, non-Muslim. So while we won't agree with Hindu Zionist on everything, we should support them against the Muslim threat.
i missed this..
agreed every word of Gold.
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Tell me this, when has there been a modern nationalist movement that hasn't been anti-Semitic in some fashion? Even Zionism has been split between the real Zionists like Chaim and the fake Zionists like Sharon.
Do you really think this Hindu Nationalism will end differently?
You have an excuse for every evil thing your people do.
and you seem to have no faith in American,UK,India, Israeli government which give visas to RSS/BJP organisation/leaders and allow them to operate in their shores, and rightly so.. they are not the trouble makers. Muslims are
You're both just as evil to me.
Just one last thing. America was an example of nationalism and no anti-Semitism in its foundation. So were the non Marxist independence movements in Ireland, Scotland and Corsica. South Africa, Malta and the Phillipines as well.
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You have an excuse for every evil thing your people do.
and you seem to have no faith in American,UK,India, Israeli government which give visas to RSS/BJP organisation/leaders and allow them to operate in their shores, and rightly so.. they are not the trouble makers. Muslims are
I think you could end the argument if you said that the hindu militants who commit murder belong behind bars (if not executed) and that the RSS wish to have nothing to do with them or with such actions.
The RSS are some of the militants.
I don't consider some lefty/muzy 'news report' as a reliable source. You have to come up with better evidence to back this claim.
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Rubystars. I know we both have strong opinions but I agree with you on 99.99999% everything else.
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You have an excuse for every evil thing your people do.
and you seem to have no faith in American,UK,India, Israeli government which give visas to RSS/BJP organisation/leaders and allow them to operate in their shores, and rightly so.. they are not the trouble makers. Muslims are
I think you could end the argument if you said that the hindu militants who commit murder belong behind bars (if not executed) and that the RSS wish to have nothing to do with them or with such actions.
The RSS are some of the militants.
I don't consider some lefty/muzy 'news report' as a reliable source. You have to come up with better evidence to back this claim.
Turn a blind eye to the truth if you want. I know it makes it easier for everyone not to start any trouble.
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Turn a blind eye to the truth if you want. I know it makes it easier for everyone not to start any trouble.
That's the last thing I would do. I believe in things backed by reliable data. If you say that the RSS is behind some of the murderous attack, then you should bring, for example, a citation of RSS pleaders who inciting the mob to commit such actions. If I only read muslims or leftists empty accusations why should I believe them ?
And as for the other evil things you described such as child marriage and infanticide- As far as I know the BJP is pushing for modernization and for the end of such traditions, so I thing it is actually a reason to commend them.
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You have an excuse for every evil thing your people do.
and you seem to have no faith in American,UK,India, Israeli government which give visas to RSS/BJP organisation/leaders and allow them to operate in their shores, and rightly so.. they are not the trouble makers. Muslims are
I think you could end the argument if you said that the hindu militants who commit murder belong behind bars (if not executed) and that the RSS wish to have nothing to do with them or with such actions.
What on earth are you talking about Zelhar, this is a kahanist forum.
Kahanists have always been in favour of counter-terrorism, rabbi kahane never condemned that. Never!
How can you have such a blatant double standard. How unwise.
Of course, you would probably say that certain murders are Ok and certain ones aren't. But then be specific, don't make some kind of request for a formally worded condemnation and then choose the words so badly that you wouldn't agree to it yourself if you thought about it.
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I think murder is by definition WRONG. If some loss of life is caused as collateral damage due to self defense- this kind of killing is NOT murder.
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I think murder is by definition WRONG. If some loss of life is caused as collateral damage due to self defense- this kind of killing is NOT murder.
how about muslims blow up a bus, and jews blow up 2 of their busses.
that is classic kahanist counter-terrorism. Rabbi Kahane never said he was -for- it (because he wanted to stay within the law). But he always defended it and said he would not condemn it.
under a kahanist govt, it wouldn't happen, since kahanist would have an army and wouldn't have to do that. But without it, then indeed it would. This is all pure kahanism.
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If there is a better way to defend ourselves I'd consider such action as murder. Still, there are various degrees of murder, so I might consider such action as equivalent to mercy murder.
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If there is a better way to defend ourselves I'd consider such action as murder. Still, there are various degrees of murder, so I might consider such action as equivalent to mercy murder.
seems like nitpicking, anyhow
What is "mercy murder" ?
Is that supposed to be a merciful murder?
The israeli govt is not throwing the arabs out. So,
do you think blowing up a bus of muslims is "defence" ?
most wouldn't. even if most of them want to destroy israel.
It's revenge! It's fighting back to get them off our land. Which is exactly what they do to us.
Rabbi Kahane would not have condemned that. Do you?
It's perhaps the most controversial area of kahanism, but it's fairly fundamental. .
As Kahane said,
If you don't sink to their level, then you don't sink to their level, you sink 6ft under.
We should bury respectability before respectability buries us
In the arab world, if you are nice then that is percieved as weak, and that's not good, it's bad!
Kahane often said as a defence of it (see debate with dershowitz). It's the only controverisal part of it. Kahane said, "what are we suposed to do?"
Notice that Kahane never condemned arabs for terrorist attacks against us. They make their claim, we make ours. We can't both share the land.
He did say at one point, that he would have settled even for the 1948 borders, had they accepted it (I guess he woludn't have let them vote or become a majourity). But the arabs want us out.
Blowing up a bus of arabs is not really defence. Perhaps not even what we now call counter-terrorism. But it's terrorism in response to their terrorism.
Rabbi Kahane defended it and would not condemn it.
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I would not condone such act nor condemn it. I personally wouldn't take part in such act. It would feel less awful if the targeted Arabs are all adult male Islamists (such was the case in the Baruch Goldstein incident).
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Sounds like some people would be willing to worship an idol if it meant getting rid of Arabs from the land... That is not what our G-d asks from us. Idolotry is one of three sins which a Jew should die before commiting.
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Maybe it was a coincidence, but there is a good article on A7 news site which I will repost here:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/8423
Self-Restraint
Kislev 11, 5769, 08 December 08 11:53
by Prof. Paul Eidelberg
(IsraelNN.com) US Admiral Bull Halsey, a rational and responsible man, said, "Hit hard, hit fast, hit often." Rationality and responsibility are qualities quite foreign to those who shape Israel's policy toward its enemy, the Palestinian Authority. Their policy is "Hit softly, hit slowly, and hit seldom."
In Hebrew this policy is called havlaga - "self-restraint". This policy is motivated by fear of world opinion, perhaps also by the desire to display Israel's moral superiority vis-à-vis the cruelty of her Arab enemies. It is an utterly inane and immoral policy.
Havlaga prolongs the war. It therefore increases the number of Jewish as well as Arab casualties. But let me focus on the character of the government that pursues this policy of havlaga - so sickeningly obvious in its failure to retaliate against the constant bombing of Sderot by the Arabs in Gaza.
This craven policy reveals the government's lack of heartfelt concern for the lives of Jews. Paradoxical as it may seem, this government policy of havlaga undermines the sanctity of human life. It encourages the enemy and increases Arab - indeed, the world's - contempt for Israel. Havlaga is a vile policy, and its proponents must be deemed bungled or base human beings.
Yet this has been the policy of Israeli prime ministers and their cohorts since the signing of the Israel-PLO Agreement of September 1993. How demoralizing, how revolting!
And yet, not a single party in the Knesset protests against this cowardly and self-destructive policy. Even the religious parties, which proclaim the principle of pikuach nefesh - "saving life" - say nothing about the danger of havlaga to Jewish life. The religious parties are the most culpable.
The rabbis of old taught us that "whoever is merciful to the cruel, will ultimately be cruel to the merciful." Hence, we should expect the religious parties to denounce the policy of havlaga loudly and repeatedly. They should expose the irrationality of such concepts as "collateral damage" and "proportionality" when fighting against a genocidal enemy - a satanic enemy, as witnessed by how Muslims tortured before murdering Jews in Mumbai.
The rabbis should say, "Hit hard, hit fast and hit often." But this would appear "un-Jewish" and "immoral." Yet Rabbi Judah Halevi said: "With whatever is at hand, you shall kill."
King Solomon said, "To everything there is a season - a time for war and a time for peace." Each time has its own laws. There are laws for war and there are laws for peace. Havlaga is not one of the laws of war.
Consider the verse, "When you go forth to battle against your enemies...." (Deuteronomy 20:1) The sages ask: "What is meant by 'against your enemies'"? They answer: "God said, 'Confront them as enemies. Just as they show you no mercy, so should you not show them any mercy.'" (Tanchuma, Shoftim 15)
Israel's greatest monarch, King David, said:
"I have pursued mine enemies and overtaken them. Neither did I withdraw till they were consumed. I have smitten them through, so that they are not able to rise; they are fallen under my feet. For Thou has girded me with strength unto the battle. Thou hast subdued under me those that rose up against me. Thou hast also made mine enemies turn their backs unto me, and I did cut off them that hate me. ...Then did I beat them small as the dust before the wind; I did cast them out as the mire of the streets." (Psalms 18:38-43)
These words may seem cruel to effete, overly civilized Jews. They would rather Jews be the victims than the victors of war - the less to worry about anti-Semitism, or so they foolishly think. How many Jews have been murdered, how many Jewish children have been made orphans, how many Jewish men, women and children have been crippled for life, how many Jewish families have suffered so horribly because of this senseless, cowardly and futile policy of havlaga?
And how many Jews (as well as Arabs) would be alive today had the government of Israel pursued a cruel, but quick and decisive, war against the Palestinian Authority before the PA could accumulate so many weapons, and indoctrinate a generation of Arab children to hate and kill Jews?
The Jewish people are known (even by their enemies) for their kindness and mercy, which is why Arabs store weapons in hospitals and schools, and shield themselves behind women and children. In time of war, however, "do not show [your enemy] any pity" (Deuteronomy 7:17), on which verse the Ramban comments: "Through the mercy of fools all justice is lost."
Justice, justice is what Israel stands for: justice has ever been the sacred cause of the Jewish people. Today, however, inasmuch as Israeli governments display no confidence in the justice of Israel's cause, is it any wonder that the Jew-haters of this world now question whether Israel has a right to exist, indeed, call for Israel's eradication?
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I would not condone such act nor condemn it. I personally wouldn't take part in such act. It would feel less awful if the targeted Arabs are all adult male Islamists (such was the case in the Baruch Goldstein incident).
And so therefore don't expect other militant nationalists to make some ridiculous statement like "I condemn murder"!
Hindus face the same threat from muslims as Jews do.
And there are many striking natural parallels between India and Israel. It's a democratic country(as in majourity vote) with a weak leftist government and a growing muslim population and a threat from their muslim neighbour pakistan, which is essentially another state set up for the muslims.
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Sounds like some people would be willing to worship an idol if it meant getting rid of Arabs from the land... That is not what our G-d asks from us. Idolotry is one of three sins which a Jew should die before commiting.
What are the other two? I'm curious.
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Sounds like some people would be willing to worship an idol if it meant getting rid of Arabs from the land... That is not what our G-d asks from us. Idolotry is one of three sins which a Jew should die before commiting.
What are the other two? I'm curious.
Hello RubyStars,
Here is a link to Chabad:
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/581438/jewish/Is-a-Jew-required-to-die-rather-than-disobey-a-Torah-command.htm
Three Cardinal Sins
With regards to the three cardinal sins – 1 idolatry, 2 murder, and 3 sexual sins (such as adultery, incest, and homosexuality) – we are obligated to allow our lives to be sacrificed rather than transgress them. Regarding these sins, it makes no difference who is the one (or ones) compelling the Jew to transgress, or in the presence of how many people it is done.
To review... The three sins which a Jew should die before commiting are 1) Idolatry 2) Murder and 3) Sexual Sins...
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Thanks Muman I always like to learn more.
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<snip>
To review... The three sins which a Jew should die before commiting are 1) Idolatry 2) Murder and 3) Sexual Sins...
There are in a sense, 4 things. (or to be traditional, let's say 3, +1).
Those 3 if done in private. (the famous 3 cardinal sins)
But any sin if done in public
you can hear this from rabbi kahane in his talk at camp sdei chemed, but there are a number of sites online that mention this and the relevant gemara.
Sanhedrin 74A,B
http://biurchametz.blogspot.com/2005/09/pikuach-nefesh-and-land-for-peace.html
R' Yochanan said in the name of R' Shimon ben Yehotzadak: "It was decided by a vote in the loft of the house of Nitezeh in Lod: For all the transgressions in the Torah, if a man is told, 'Transgress and you will not be killed,' he should transgress and not be killed, except for idol worship and sexual relations and bloodshed." (Sanhedrin 74a)
...
in public, even for a minor commandment one should be killed rather than transgress."
What is a "minor commandment"? Rava bar R' Yitzhak said in the name of Rav: Even to change the lace of one's shoe.
And how many is "in public"? R' Yaakov said: R' Yochanan said, "'In public' requires at least ten people." (Sanhedrin 74a-b)
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Thank you too QQ.
I wanted to add that I know a lot of what I mentioned in this thread involves a touchy situation. Chaim is absolutely correct about India's nukes being a protective barrier for Israel and about Muslim evil. I would never wish to take that protection from Israel. I love Israel and would like to make sure it stays safe. I just think JTF needs to be careful who the organization deals with or make alliances with, because not every enemy of your enemy is your friend. I'll leave it at that for tonight.
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<snip>
There are in a sense, 4 things. (or to be traditional, let's say 3, +1).
Those 3 if done in private. (the famous 3 cardinal sins)
But any sin if done in public
you can hear this from rabbi kahane in his talk at camp sdei chemed, but there are a number of sites online that mention this and the relevant gemara.
Sanhedrin 74A,B
http://biurchametz.blogspot.com/2005/09/pikuach-nefesh-and-land-for-peace.html
R' Yochanan said in the name of R' Shimon ben Yehotzadak: "It was decided by a vote in the loft of the house of Nitezeh in Lod: For all the transgressions in the Torah, if a man is told, 'Transgress and you will not be killed,' he should transgress and not be killed, except for idol worship and sexual relations and bloodshed." (Sanhedrin 74a)
...
in public, even for a minor commandment one should be killed rather than transgress."
What is a "minor commandment"? Rava bar R' Yitzhak said in the name of Rav: Even to change the lace of one's shoe.
And how many is "in public"? R' Yaakov said: R' Yochanan said, "'In public' requires at least ten people." (Sanhedrin 74a-b)
Yes q_q, that Chabad site which I linked to includes this story...
From that site it is states like this:
Sha'at Hashemad
If an oppressive government arises and sets for itself the goal of eradicating Judaism and Torah, we are commanded to sacrifice our lives rather than deviate one iota from Jewish law or custom. The example given in the Talmud4 is if the prevailing Jewish custom is to wear white shoelaces, and the non-Jewish custom is to wear red shoelaces, then one must give up his life rather than change the color shoelaces he wears!
In this instance, it is irrelevant whether the transgression will be performed in public or private.
In Public
With regards to all other commandments, we are required to transgress rather than die. If, however, it is the intention of the person forcing the transgression to compel the person to sin, and the sin will be done is in the presence of a minyan (ten Jews), then one is obligated to be martyred for rather than transgress any sin.
Thus, for example, in the case of Nazi concentration camps, there was no problem with Jews working on the Shabbat – although it was done in public – because the Nazis weren't out to get the Jews to sin, they simply wanted them to work so they could benefit from their labor.
I would like to conclude with the words of Maimonides:7
"A person who encounters a situation concerning which it is stated 'be killed rather than transgress,' and he allowed himself to be killed and did no transgress—this individual has sanctified G‑d's Name. If this was in the presence of ten Jews, then he has sanctified G‑d's Name in public, like Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, and like Rabbi Akiba and his colleagues. These are the ones referred to [in the Talmud] as 'executed by the regime'—there is no higher level than their level. Concerning them it is stated,8 'For it is for Your sake that we are killed all day, that we are considered as sheep for the slaughter.' And concerning these individuals it is said,9 "Gather to Me My devoted ones, who made a covenant with Me over a sacrifice."
I pray that these words remain purely academic. Despite the incredible greatness of the mitzvah of sanctifying G‑d's Name, we've "overused" this mitzvah through the course of countless crusades, inquisitions, pogroms, and attempted Final Solutions (Click here to read one story of communal martyrdom). Now it is time for us to sanctify G‑d's holy Name by the way we live, rather than by the way we die.
4. Sanhedrin 74b.
Some Daf Yomis:
http://ohr.edu/yhiy/article.php/116
http://www.dafyomi.co.il/sanhedrin/reviewa/sn-ra-074.htm
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Sounds like some people would be willing to worship an idol if it meant getting rid of Arabs from the land... That is not what our G-d asks from us. Idolotry is one of three sins which a Jew should die before commiting.
nobody is asking to worship idols here. Just fight the common enemy.
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an important thing which I missed..
which that article pointed out ..
is it's not just sinning , it's being told to sin for the sake of sinning.
I guess that's the halachic chillul hashem..
A bit like if the arabs were to say "give up land because it's against the torah".
if it is indeed against the torah
Then even there. since the arabs are not saying that, the situation giving away land there, is not halachically a chillul hashem.. But it is biblically a chillul hashem. Because the the jewish people are weak, and G-d sanctifies his name through us, and people question G-d and say "this is your people" e.t.c. the nations look and mock and say "where is your G-d". Or in the case of muslims, they would say he is with them.
rabbi kahane spoke about (biblical ) chillul hashem and kiddush hashem in his talk to noachides.
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an important thing which I missed..
which that article pointed out ..
is it's not just sinning , it's being told to sin for the sake of sinning.
I guess that's the halachic chillul hashem..
A bit like if the arabs were to say "give up land because it's against the torah".
if it is indeed against the torah
Then even there. since the arabs are not saying that, the situation giving away land there, is not halachically a chillul hashem.. But it is biblically a chillul hashem. Because the the jewish people are weak, and G-d sanctifies his name through us, and people question G-d and say "this is your people" e.t.c. the nations look and mock and say "where is your G-d". Or in the case of muslims, they would say he is with them.
rabbi kahane spoke about (biblical ) chillul hashem and kiddush hashem in his talk to noachides.
I am pleased to say I agree fully with your understanding of these halachas in regard to the current situation. I too consider it a Chillul Hashem that Israel is so weak in the world.
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People, please let's not all get into a fight here.
This whole thread is becoming very awkward, and I don't want that to happen. There are some things we might have to agree to disagree on.
As you all know, JTF wants a Torah-true Kahanist Jewish state of Israel. That means neutralizing and getting rid of the Arab fifth column threat. India is in a similar position to Israel, even though they're a bigger country. So with all the terrorist attacks they've faced, I can't really blame them for wanting India to be a Hindu country where Sikhs, Jains and Christians and other non-troublemakers can freely practice their religions.
As a Jew, I don't like seeing any religious group persecuted. However, I should also remind everyone that JTF vehemently opposes missionizing to Jews. So I personally will not criticize Hindu Zionist for wanting the same thing in his own country. Now with that being said, I don't think JTF should align with any political party that persecutes minorities, since Jews have always been a minority.
We need to think about this. We want America to remain a First World country (as in mostly white, with Judeo-Christian values). We want a Torah true Kahanist Jewish state in Israel. We want Europe to remain white, non-Muslim. So while we won't agree with Hindu Zionist on everything, we should support them against the Muslim threat.
i missed this..
agreed every word of Gold.
Agreed.
Albeit in religious terms the Hindus and Jewish are poles apart and everybody is clear and well aware on this point. No Hindu ever wants or shall want that a single Jew should ever praise Hinduism and no Jewish ever wants or shall wish that a even a single Hindu should convert to Jewish. None of them want in any way to influence each other religiously or nationally.
And as you said {QUOTE} So while we won't agree with Hindu Zionist on everything, we should support them against the Muslim threat. {UNQUOTE}, in response we should say that "So we should agree with Jewish on everything and we should all out support them against the Muslim threat."
Actually very few of some super orthodox Hindus know very well from very ancient times and accept about the original and special relationship of G_d and Israel with the Jewish.
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People, please let's not all get into a fight here.
This whole thread is becoming very awkward, and I don't want that to happen. There are some things we might have to agree to disagree on.
As you all know, JTF wants a Torah-true Kahanist Jewish state of Israel. That means neutralizing and getting rid of the Arab fifth column threat. India is in a similar position to Israel, even though they're a bigger country. So with all the terrorist attacks they've faced, I can't really blame them for wanting India to be a Hindu country where Sikhs, Jains and Christians and other non-troublemakers can freely practice their religions.
As a Jew, I don't like seeing any religious group persecuted. However, I should also remind everyone that JTF vehemently opposes missionizing to Jews. So I personally will not criticize Hindu Zionist for wanting the same thing in his own country. Now with that being said, I don't think JTF should align with any political party that persecutes minorities, since Jews have always been a minority.
We need to think about this. We want America to remain a First World country (as in mostly white, with Judeo-Christian values). We want a Torah true Kahanist Jewish state in Israel. We want Europe to remain white, non-Muslim. So while we won't agree with Hindu Zionist on everything, we should support them against the Muslim threat.
i missed this..
agreed every word of Gold.
Agreed.
Albeit in religious terms the Hindus and Jewish are poles apart and everybody is clear and well aware on this point. No Hindu ever wants or shall want that a single Jew should ever praise Hinduism and no Jewish ever wants or shall wish that a even a single Hindu should convert to Jewish. None of them want in any way to influence each other religiously or nationally.
And as you said {QUOTE} So while we won't agree with Hindu Zionist on everything, we should support them against the Muslim threat. {UNQUOTE}, in response we should say that "So we should agree with Jewish on everything and we should all out support them against the Muslim threat."
Actually very few of some super orthodox Hindus know very well from very ancient times and accept about the original and special relationship of G_d and Israel with the Jewish.
Yes, a we should work together.
A Hindu Nationalist would even be ready to join a paramilitary of Israel and give answer to Islamic Palestine without thinking twice for his own life.
Hindus have liberated the Temple(Ayodhya) over which a mosque was standing, they wish the Israelis too do such a thing, by liberating their Temple Mount from Islamic clutches.
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I will say again that I have several friends who are from India. I called my good friend Ram on the Sunday after the Mumbai attacks and we talked for an hour. He and I used to go out to lunch virtually every day for almost 2 years when he worked at my company. We talked about a lot of politics and only very little about religion. We both started at my company about six years ago and he was the person in the cube next to mine.
I have a lot of respect for many Indians. In my current cube I work with an Indian fellow named Sri who is also very friendly and good natured. I have no problem with Indian Hindus. He never said the name of any of his gods in front of me because I told him I didn't want to hear them.
The only thing which Ram said which ticked me off, and I didn't talk to him for another 2 years, is that he could not understand why I was so upset about a restaurant named "Hitlers Cross". I tried to explain that it was a symbol of great agony and pain for the Jewish people. I understand that in his culture the symbol doesnt hold that significance but to call the place "Hitlers Cross"... The insult is obvious. In the end we made up and continue to talk. Ram said India is supportive of Israel and he hopes for Israels success against the Islamic terrorists.
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I will say again that I have several friends who are from India. I called my good friend Ram on the Sunday after the Mumbai attacks and we talked for an hour. He and I used to go out to lunch virtually every day for almost 2 years when he worked at my company. We talked about a lot of politics and only very little about religion. We both started at my company about six years ago and he was the person in the cube next to mine.
I have a lot of respect for many Indians. In my current cube I work with an Indian fellow named Sri who is also very friendly and good natured. I have no problem with Indian Hindus. He never said the name of any of his gods in front of me because I told him I didn't want to hear them.
The only thing which Ram said which ticked me off, and I didn't talk to him for another 2 years, is that he could not understand why I was so upset about a restaurant named "Hitlers Cross". I tried to explain that it was a symbol of great agony and pain for the Jewish people. I understand that in his culture the symbol doesnt hold that significance but to call the place "Hitlers Cross"... The insult is obvious. In the end we made up and continue to talk. Ram said India is supportive of Israel and he hopes for Israels success against the Islamic terrorists.
nice.
Yes Hitlers Cross, i have seen that place in South Mumbai.Cant understand why stupid people would dedicate a resto in the memory of murders, and worst how can people go and eat out over there. Good its shutdown now.
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I will say again that I have several friends who are from India. I called my good friend Ram on the Sunday after the Mumbai attacks and we talked for an hour. He and I used to go out to lunch virtually every day for almost 2 years when he worked at my company. We talked about a lot of politics and only very little about religion. We both started at my company about six years ago and he was the person in the cube next to mine.
I have a lot of respect for many Indians. In my current cube I work with an Indian fellow named Sri who is also very friendly and good natured. I have no problem with Indian Hindus. He never said the name of any of his gods in front of me because I told him I didn't want to hear them.
The only thing which Ram said which ticked me off, and I didn't talk to him for another 2 years, is that he could not understand why I was so upset about a restaurant named "Hitlers Cross". I tried to explain that it was a symbol of great agony and pain for the Jewish people. I understand that in his culture the symbol doesnt hold that significance but to call the place "Hitlers Cross"... The insult is obvious. In the end we made up and continue to talk. Ram said India is supportive of Israel and he hopes for Israels success against the Islamic terrorists.
Yikes.... 'Hitlers Cross??'
By the way... Korea had a bar that idolized the nazis:
http://rokdrop.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/hitlerbooth1.jpg
http://img.timeinc.net/time/asia/magazine/2000/0605/southkorea.theydressedwell.jpg
http://www.pusanweb.com/feature/hitlerbar/Dec15$07.jpg
And Look at this clothing shop in Hong Kong:
http://www.solomonia.com/images/august03/izzue.jpg
This does NOT mean that Koreans and People from Hong Kong are evil.. .there are just a few ignoramuses.
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http://www.prisonplanet.com/former-isi-chief-mumbai-and-911-both-inside-jobs.html
QUOTE>> Former ISI Chief: Mumbai And 9/11 Both “Inside Jobs”
Hamid Gul tells CNN that neo-cons, zionists were behind terror attacks
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Monday, December 8, 2008
General Hamid Gul, the former head of the Pakistani ISI, told CNN yesterday that both the Mumbai attacks and 9/11 were “inside jobs,” much to the chagrin of host and CFR luminary Fareed Zakaria, who told viewers that Gul’s opinions were “absolutely wrong and thoroughly discredited”.
“When you look at the full spectrum of possibilities, who could have done it, then one knows that Samjhauta Express was a similar case, in which Pakistan ISI was accused. But it turned out that it was the militant Hindus themselves who had killed 68 passengers in that train, and that it was an inside job,” said Gul.
“Now Colonel Srikant Purohit, who is a serving army officer, he has been caught in this particular case. And the whole thing has turned around.”
“So, obviously, there is an inside job.”
The revelation that Mukhtar Ahmed, a “counterinsurgency police officer who may have been on an undercover mission” working for Indian authorities was arrested for illegally buying mobile phone cards used by the Mumbai gunmen, allied with the numerous intelligence warnings proving that the method, arrival and targets of attack were all known well in advance, proves Gul right in his assertion that the terrorists could not have achieved such carnage without help from people on the inside.
Asked by Zakaria, “What is your hunch as to who did - who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks?,” Gul responded, “Well, I have been on record, and I said it is the Zionists or the neocons. They have done it. It was an inside job.”
“And they wanted to go on the world conquerors. They were looking upon it as an opportunity window, when the Muslim world was lying prostrate. Russia was nowhere in sight. China was still not an economic giant that is has turned out to be.”
“And they thought that this was a good time to go and fill those strategic areas, which are still lying without any American presence. And, of course, to control the energy tap of the world.”
“Presently, it is the Middle East, and in future it is going to be Central Asia,” added Gul.
Gul told Zakaria that the evidence for 9/11 being planned by Osama Bin Laden and executed by Al-Qaeda has not emerged and that the events are still “shrouded in mystery”.
“A lot of people have a lot of misgivings about that. And it’s not only me. I think a lot of people in America would be thinking the same way. There are scientists, there are scholars, who have written articles on it,” added Gul, calling for President elect Barack Obama to set up a new commission to investigate the attacks.
Gul said the attacks were planned inside America by people with a dangerous agenda who have “turned the world upside-down”.
Returning from a commercial break, Zakaria, editor of Newsweek, Council on Foreign Relations kingpin and also a Trilateral Commission board member, told his viewers, “Some of General Gul’s views are simply false. There is a mountain of evidence about 9/11 that refutes his assertions,” but Zakaria failed to cite any of it.
Zakaria was then joined by counter-insurgency expert David Kilcullen who said that the Mumbai attacks bore all the hallmarks of a “clandestine operation or a covert operation style activity,” but when pressed he refused to directly implicate Pakistan in the attack. <<UNQUOTE
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Hmm... Hamid Gul may be correct in his assertions, otherwise why am I not finding his name on this most wanted list. [Wink]
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1902/19020180.htm
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for anyone wants to know about RSS,cause i saw there is some misunderstanding about this organisation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRc7kgdkFi0