JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Trumpeldor on October 24, 2007, 07:59:50 PM
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400,000 views today
Good place to promote JTF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3nYsOL_pTU
Amir was right!
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too bad a good Jew still sits in jail
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divorced her husband
I can't support this under any circumstances. What she did is terribly, horribly wrong, regardless of what a noble Jewish martyr Amir is. I have no respect for Mrs. Amir whatsoever. She desecrated her marriage and her entire womanhood.
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Yes, I agree that if this is true, it is crazy. No normal woman would leave their husband to chase after some celebrity. Are you sure that this is true?
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Shes a great Jewish lady. She said that she didnt connect with her ex and devorced him. Then she got involved with Amir and is married to him now.
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Shes a great Jewish lady. She said that she didnt connect with her ex and devorced him. Then she got involved with Amir and is married to him now.
Oh did you hear her interview with Israel National radio? You're right, she did say that.
I dont remember where, but I heard that a long time ago.
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400,000 views today
Good place to promote JTF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3nYsOL_pTU
Amir was right!
This video is not new. If you have not seen this then you have not followed any of the rabin conspiracy story.
This is the kempler video, it was on Israel TV - though 2 different versions were put out.
Barry Chamish included it in his video and mentioned it in his book.
And later, David Rutstein put it online, he doesn`t seem to know the conspiracy that well but he is very good at publicising things! He set up all the URLs like yigalamir.com and shimonperes.com and so on, and made noise at the rabin memorials, and got huge posters put up.
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too bad a good Jew still sits in jail
Let the bastard rot in jail - we take out our leaders through ballots, not bullets.
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too bad a good Jew still sits in jail
Let the bastard rot in jail - we take out our leaders through ballots, not bullets.
I'm not saying it was right to take him out through bullets, but nonetheless he should be released.
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too bad a good Jew still sits in jail
Let the bastard rot in jail - we take out our leaders through ballots, not bullets.
He's a hero not a "bastard" like you describe him. Watch you language.
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A source - Josh Backon - may not be reliable , but he said that police records show yigal amir to be a pedophile. He is friendly with a main police detective at the time. David Rutstein says pedo too, I am not sure whether he has an independent source.
I think chaim is of the theory that Yigal Amir swapped the bullets for real ones. In which case that theory is that yigal amir did kill rabin. I`d like to know the source of that theory.
Yigal Amir worked with Avishai Raviv. He is not a friend of the right. Avishai Raviv was a leftist israeli agent whose job it was to act extreme to make the right look bad on TV, so the left would not vote likud, they`d vote labour. It worked, Shimon Peres succeeded Rabin as PM.
Avishai Raviv printed and/or distributed T shirts of rabin in nazi uniform . This was israeli intelligence. Yigal Amir worked with Avishai Raviv - knowingly or unknowingly is another matter. But either way it is bad.
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A source - Josh Backon - may not be reliable , but he said that police records show yigal amir to be a pedophile. He is friendly with a main police detective at the time. David Rutstein says pedo too, I am not sure whether he has an independent source.
I think chaim is of the theory that Yigal Amir swapped the bullets for real ones. In which case that theory is that yigal amir did kill rabin. I`d like to know the source of that theory.
Yigal Amir worked with Avishai Raviv. He is not a friend of the right. Avishai Raviv was a leftist israeli agent whose job it was to act extreme to make the right look bad on TV, so the left would not vote likud, they`d vote labour. It worked, Shimon Peres succeeded Rabin as PM.
Avishai Raviv printed and/or distributed T shirts of rabin in nazi uniform . This was israeli intelligence. Yigal Amir worked with Avishai Raviv - knowingly or unknowingly is another matter. But either way it is bad.
Please dont write something evil by suspecting a fellow Jew of such a crime. It is certainly wronge and forbidden. Listining and spreading garbage like this is uncalled for and one of the worst crimes a person can do (evil gossip and even more than that which is pure lies).
About Yigal being with Avishai- Avishai had a lot of people fooled. According to Chaim and others, Avishai convinced Yigal to kill the Hiloni while pretending to be an ordinary guy and not telling him hes an agent.
Either way I see this discussion pointless. Yigal killed him, yes, soo what? Right wing and religious Jews should stop pretending like this was a real crime and make it as if we should or are disassociating with Yigal and his actions.
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A source - Josh Backon - may not be reliable , but he said that police records show yigal amir to be a pedophile. He is friendly with a main police detective at the time. David Rutstein says pedo too, I am not sure whether he has an independent source.
I think chaim is of the theory that Yigal Amir swapped the bullets for real ones. In which case that theory is that yigal amir did kill rabin. I`d like to know the source of that theory.
Yigal Amir worked with Avishai Raviv. He is not a friend of the right. Avishai Raviv was a leftist israeli agent whose job it was to act extreme to make the right look bad on TV, so the left would not vote likud, they`d vote labour. It worked, Shimon Peres succeeded Rabin as PM.
Avishai Raviv printed and/or distributed T shirts of rabin in nazi uniform . This was israeli intelligence. Yigal Amir worked with Avishai Raviv - knowingly or unknowingly is another matter. But either way it is bad.
Please dont write something evil by suspecting a fellow Jew of such a crime. It is certainly wronge and forbidden. Listining and spreading garbage like this is uncalled for and one of the worst crimes a person can do (evil gossip and even more than that which is pure lies).
About Yigal being with Avishai- Avishai had a lot of people fooled. According to Chaim and others, Avishai convinced Yigal to kill the Hiloni while pretending to be an ordinary guy and not telling him hes an agent.
Either way I see this discussion pointless. Yigal killed him, yes, soo what? Right wing and religious Jews should stop pretending like this was a real crime and make it as if we should or are disassociating with Yigal and his actions.
josh backon - who happens to be a Rabbi as well as a professor and dr, if that makes any difference to you - sits next to the police detective on the case, in his shul. This is not just some rumour.
Yigal Amir did not kill rabin. The medical records prove it. As do the witness testimony. The medical records describe in great detail, a frontal wound, entering the upper lobe of the right lung and exitting shattering vertibrae at D5-6. It is written there. You don`t even need hebrew to see it.
Yigal Amir could not have shot him from the front. He was standing behind.
Chief inspector baruch gladstein in the protocols of yigal amir`s trial, (available, quoted at length in chamish`s book), testified to their being a point blank or near point blank shot. This was based on an analysis of Rabin`s clothing. There was a tear that was standard kind of tear made from blast of air from the gun at close range.
Natan Gefen sat in the trial, and saw how originally it was claimed that yigal amir shot from 30cm, but because of that testimony, they wrote over it, 10cm, to make it closer so the story matched. Yigal Amir could not have done that shot either.
There was a shot entering the right shoulder exitting through the right nipple. Yigal Amir was not shooting at that angle.
Rabin had a shattered spine, this is shown in medical reports. He could not have been able to get into the car. Witnesses said rabin seemed fine. If he had a shattered vertibrae he would have collaposed. He did have a shattered vertibrae. It was shattered AFTER the rabin scene.
The killing shots took place in the car or hospital. Chamish thinks - twice in the car, once in the hospital. There was an incident where everybody was ordered out of the hospital, but one guy remained there.
And there is tons of evidence of shabak then covering things up further.. But the key is that yigal amir did not kill him, he could not have. Shabak did. Rabin was in the hands of Shabak. And then they covered it all up.. Sloppily.
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Whatever it doesnt matter.
The real poll question should be- In the case that Yigal did kill him, would you have supported it?
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I don't know if any of you listen to Sha'i ben Tekoa from Www.DeprogramProgram.Com on the netcast: Rabin, King of the Sabras. He seems to think that Amir did a bad thing and that he disserves the death penalty. Didn't Rabin murder Irgun and Lahey members during the Altalena Affair while in the Haganna? How many Jews and Christians were murdered since Oslo? Was he not a drunk? Was he too not a Socialist like Ben Gurion, Moshe Dyan, Gold Meir, Moshe Sharrett?
If someone is learned on this subject, please pm me with your opinions of Yigal Amir
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I don't know if any of you listen to Sha'i ben Tekoa from Www.DeprogramProgram.Com on the netcast: Rabin, King of the Sabras. He seems to think that Amir did a bad thing and that he disserves the death penalty. Didn't Rabin murder Irgun and Lahey members during the Altalena Affair while in the Haganna? How many Jews and Christians were murdered since Oslo? Was he not a drunk? Was he too not a Socialist like Ben Gurion, Moshe Dyan, Gold Meir, Moshe Sharrett?
If someone is learned on this subject, please pm me with your opinions of Yigal Amir
I have listened to SBT of DPP. He used to be on israelnn - free. I didn`t hear him much though.
The story you discuss is one I first learnt of while reading the Book next to your picture . To eliminate the opiate vol 2 by rabbi antelman. He includes a letter by Joel Bainerman that discusses it. I have also heard Kahane mention it in audio. Bainerman discusses it in detail. He also points out an amazing thing. Apparently rabin was shot from a similar place where he shot at the Altalena.
Look at these former PMs..
Ben Gurion(PM at the time) ordered (then defence minister) Yitzchak Rabin to kill Menachem Begin and others on the altalena !!!!!!!! (I guess it inclued killing menachem begin, not sure if it was explicit)
BG was PM at the time. YR was defence minister.
Golda Meir may fit into it somewhere. There is a pattern of them getting rewarded... YR was rewarded..
I have read that rabin was a drunk, from prof paul eidelberg.
similarly, according to chamish, based partly on what Benni Begin(Menachem`s son) told him. Sharon was rewarded for betraying Begin (and I guess causing a massacre - sabra and shatilla arab-arab massacre). It was an outside plan, prob american, to get Begin out of power. This is how things work. it`s sick.
I suggest finding the part in that book you have where the letter is. It does go into detail about the incident.
In one of kahane`s books, he mentions that when his car was hit with a rock, the press said something like "blessed be the holy canon that fired on the altalena, and the rock that hit kahane`s car".
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Shai was very intellectual. When I listened to him I often had to take notes, it`d have been better if he wrote articles. He was great though..
You missed a very important name. The most exciting guy I ever heard on radio.. The year was 2002 ,
DANIEL BEN AVRAHAM !!! (remember the music too?)
political and financial analysis , mostly political, but he related them! A program on how to protect yourself against chemical biological and nuclear weapons.
A killer debater. The only time I have ever really been interested in politics. (he really had news, and it was so interesting and so well delivered)
I lived for it!!! he must`ve got a buzz from it too, I think he was on some strange hours of the morning, for 6 hours straight!!! You could hear him eating too. I imagine him as looking like michael moore , but a suped up anti michael moore. But that doesn`t do him justice. I think I saved one or two of his programs on my computer.
one where he debated lefty louis, and called him a crook, and everything else, because he left peoples` money in the stock market even when the market was going down, because of the idea that the market would come back up. I remember louis was talking about buying at any time. DBA said "BUY BUY BUY BUY BUY, BYE BYE YOUR MONEY", and he argued it so well too.
Another I have is the one on chemical nuclear and biological weapons.. Though I think he decided it was all futile in the end, because the govt won`t come to help you. I never bought the nuclear weapons suit. He said You can survive that, it is a matter of filtering out the tiny particles. The blast itself is , i think he said 10 square blocks or something.
If mentioning those GOOD DAYS of israel national radio - before they cut their budget - then you have to mention SBT AND DBA. DBA was soon after SBT left. When DBA left, israel national radio jumped the shark. The only good thing left are some of tamar yonah`s interviews. Yishai says some interesting stuff, and Malka is nice ... But does not compare to SBT or DBA. 2 very different people, 2 giants.
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He's a hero not a "bastard" like you describe him. Watch you language.
No disrespect Tzvi but your hypocracy is second to none.
Yigal killed a fellow Jew. Thats agaist G-d's will.....and you have the nerve for crtiticizing someone for eating pork ? You talk about G-d's will and how much we should follow the Mitzvot and you seem to be encouraging us to do the complete opposite.
It appears that someone's Kosherness is more important than the life of a fellow Jew.... Sad stuff.
Rabin was no saint but we don't dispose of our own leaders by killing them. At the end of the day - HE WAS ELECTED
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He's a hero not a "bastard" like you describe him. Watch you language.
No disrespect Tzvi but your hypocracy is second to none.
Yigal killed a fellow Jew. Thats agaist G-d's will.....and you have the nerve for crtiticizing someone for eating pork ? You talk about G-d's will and how much we should follow the Mitzvot and you seem to be encouraging us to do the complete opposite.
It appears that someone's Kosherness is more important than the life of a fellow Jew.... Sad stuff.
Rabin was no saint but we don't dispose of our own leaders by killing them. At the end of the day - HE WAS ELECTED
What are you talking about? There are many examples of heros in Jewish History of Jews killing other un/non-Jewish Jews. In 167 BCE, after Antiochus issued decrees in Judea forbidding Jewish religious practice, a rural Jewish priest from Modiin, Mattathias the Hasmonean, sparked the revolt against the Seleucid empire by refusing to worship the Greek gods. Mattathias slew a Hellenistic Jew (like Rabin, Perez, Chomsky, Marx, Olmert, Beilin etc.) who stepped forward to offer a sacrifice to an idol in Mattathias' place. He and his five sons fled to the wilderness of Judea. After Mattathias' death about one year later, his son Yahuda haMaccabee led an army of Jewish dissidents to victory over the Seleucid dynasty's Hellenized occupation. Pharisees Jews, like Yahuda haMaccabee killed many Greek/Hellenized Sadducees during this revolt/civil war... no?
So qq, you like SBT. I like him as well, although I do not agree with everything he places forward. Do you agree that Yigal Amir murdered Yitzak Rabin and disserves the death penalty, or do you believe that, (now polls are showing over 50% have their suspicians re: Government corruption) what Amir did was akin to a real Jew acting against an anti-Jew in trying to stop this awarding the murders of Jews with another Bolistinian State in the heartland of Biblica Judea?
I simply don't know. SBT seems to disregard any and all information that lessens the degree of what happened for Yigal Amir.......
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If he was going to start sacrifices for other gods then in essence he was no longer a Jew was he ?
Rabin who was also Jewish was democratically elected by the people of the state of Israel. Only the people or G-d have the right to remove him. No one had the right to kill him.
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If he was going to start sacrifices for other gods then in essence he was no longer a Jew was he ?
Rabin who was also Jewish was democratically elected by the people of the state of Israel. Only the people or G-d have the right to remove him. No one had the right to kill him.
If a Jew sacrifices to idols, he's still a Jew but doesn't practice Judaism (according to Halacha). Kahane, for example, was thrown in jail by the same Bolsheviks to keep him off the campaign trail, while being democratically elected to the Knesset.... Olmert wasn't "democratically" elected but Sharon was, who are destroying the State and have cause/are causing the deaths of many Jews.
Kiddush HaShem is a concept in Judaism where protecting the Jewish people, or acting in good deed for the benefitting of the Jewish people is a sanctification of HaShem's name. Thus, the commandment to eliminate evilness or enemies of the Jewish people, as Moses smote the Egyptian beating the Jew, Lev: 19:16, etc. would apply.
I truly, don't know, but I can see both sides of the coin here. Hypathetically, if someone would have taken out Sharon, or if Sharon would have had the stroke prior to the expulsion of Gush Katif, that incodent might have not happened thus saving the lives of many Jews, specifically in Sderot...
Playing devils advocate here.... ;)
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Sharon & Rabin were destroying Israel due to negligence & stupidity. Not because they intentionally wanted to side with the Muslim/Nazis and have us exterminated.
No worries...I can still see your point. :)
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Did Rabin deserve to die for the Altalena massacre and Oslo ?
Alot of people would probably say yes.
It's hard to argue against this.
Oslo was an illegal criminal action that did irreparable harm to Israel and has resulted in the death and maiming of thousands of Jews.
The Altalena massacre was inexcusable even if it was committed during the pangs of rebirth of the nascent Jewish State.
Still, it's always painful to see Jews killing Jews.
One thing is for sure, I'm not sorry he's gone and I wish Peres and Olmert would join him.
I can't say I'd like to see them assassinated, but they need to be removed from power before they do any more damage to Israel.
Ideally, they should be tried for treason and appropriately punished. That's a far better alternative than assassination.
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Did Rabin deserve to die for the Altalena massacre and Oslo ?
Alot of people would probably say yes.
It's hard to argue against this.
Oslo was an illegal criminal action that did irreparable harm to Israel and has resulted in the death and maiming of thousands of Jews.
The Altalena massacre was inexcusable even if it was committed during the pangs of rebirth of the nascent Jewish State.
Still, it's always painful to see Jews killing Jews.
One thing is for sure, I'm not sorry he's gone and I wish Peres and Olmert would join him.
I can't say I'd like to see them assassinated, but they need to be removed from power before they do any more damage to Israel.
Ideally, they should be tried for treason and appropriately punished. That's a far better alternative than assassination.
How about hanging, firing squad, electric chair, hung-draw and quartered, bring back the old "Iron Maiden" or the rack for these bastards. I believe that it is logical to eliminate evilness from the Earth. There is nothing worse than a Jewish anti-Jew in my opinion....
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He's a hero not a "bastard" like you describe him. Watch you language.
No disrespect Tzvi but your hypocracy is second to none.
Yigal killed a fellow Jew. Thats agaist G-d's will.....and you have the nerve for crtiticizing someone for eating pork ? You talk about G-d's will and how much we should follow the Mitzvot and you seem to be encouraging us to do the complete opposite.
It appears that someone's Kosherness is more important than the life of a fellow Jew.... Sad stuff.
Rabin was no saint but we don't dispose of our own leaders by killing them. At the end of the day - HE WAS ELECTED
MarZutra answered a lot of what I was going to write. (thanks).
Let me ask you a question. If a fellow Jew would pose a threat against you and would want to kill you, if you had the chance (and couldnt do anything else) would you kill him, yes or no?
If you say yes (which I presume, unless you are really nuts) then according to your logic how would you be allowed? isnt that agains't G-d's will.
With you post I see, like I did before that theirs a serious and even harder problem real Jews have with the Eruv Rav. Not only is it an enemy, it disguises itself as a soo called friend and "fellow Jew".
Your comment about democracy is laughable. Who cares about democracy. Where does it say in the Torah that you have to follow any of the rules of the majority in Israel. + on top of that its not even a democracy. Either way it wouldnt matter.
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If a fellow Jew would pose a threat against you and would want to kill you
This doesn't apply. How does this relate to Rabin ? Rabin did not DELIBERATLEY want to kill any Jews. He like many others erronously thought you could make peace with the Arabs by surrendering land. In the long run he was doing what he thought was best for Israel.
Your comment about democracy is laughable. Who cares about democracy. Where does it say in the Torah that you have to follow any of the rules of the majority in Israel.
Why is it laughable ? Did Rabin not get elected. Did the Labour Party & its supporters overthrow the governement ? Where does it say in the Torah that you can kill a Jew.
I hate Shmolmert with all my guts but that doesn't give me the right to kill him.
Don't forget the Jewish land, property, and holy sites that were destroyed. Not just Gush Katif and Northern Samaria. Joseph's Tomb was destroyed and The Shalom Al-Yisrael Synagogue in Jericho was burned to the ground. And they surrendered historical and archeological sites in Jericho as well. Jericho National Park should be an Israeli national park. It has the remains of the oldest city in The World (Even older than Biblical Man) and it is no longer part a National Park because The PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis occupy it and they most likely removed all Hebrew writing from exhibits there. YIMACH SHEMAM VEZICHRAM!
I am against any withdrawls.
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If a fellow Jew would pose a threat against you and would want to kill you
This doesn't apply. How does this relate to Rabin ? Rabin did not DELIBERATLEY want to kill any Jews. He like many others erronously thought you could make peace with the Arabs by surrendering land. In the long run he was doing what he thought was best for Israel.
Your comment about democracy is laughable. Who cares about democracy. Where does it say in the Torah that you have to follow any of the rules of the majority in Israel.
Why is it laughable ? Did Rabin not get elected. Did the Labour Party & its supporters overthrow the governement ? Where does it say in the Torah that you can kill a Jew.
I hate Shmolmert with all my guts but that doesn't give me the right to kill him.
Don't forget the Jewish land, property, and holy sites that were destroyed. Not just Gush Katif and Northern Samaria. Joseph's Tomb was destroyed and The Shalom Al-Yisrael Synagogue in Jericho was burned to the ground. And they surrendered historical and archeological sites in Jericho as well. Jericho National Park should be an Israeli national park. It has the remains of the oldest city in The World (Even older than Biblical Man) and it is no longer part a National Park because The PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis occupy it and they most likely removed all Hebrew writing from exhibits there. YIMACH SHEMAM VEZICHRAM!
I am against any withdrawls.
DILEBRETELY ?
He didnt diliberatly shoot Jewish men at the altalena incident?
He didnt dilebratly run the state and furthur trying to currupt Jewish souls with anti-Judaism state run schools, media and the whole system.
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Merkava and Tzvi, you both are attacking the same problem but from different angles. Of course the Torah says not to MURDER while killing is absolutely fine. A very good example is when G-d told Joshaua to drive them out or when, in Genesis, HaShem killed off those evil people from the flood, Sodom and Gamorrah, Egyptians, Jews in the Sinai and the command for Joshaua to "drive them out" etc. for a full liberation of Eretz Yisrael. Sadly, today we have not learnd thanks to the infection of Globalism, Egalitarianism and "multiculturalism" to "tolerate" many savages that profess to cultures, faiths and amoral beleifs that cause "thorns in thine eyes and thistles in thine side".... The Jews then, like today, must DRIVE them OUT and make a JEWISH State as commanded in the Bible...imo..
This is the case where I believe the Talmud goes into immense detail about the difference between Murder and Killing as I briefly stated earlier with the Jewish concepts of Kidush HaShem and Chilul HaShem (National Sanctification of HaShem and National Disgracing of HaShem's name).
I, personally, don't know two much about Yigal Amir but I am of the opinion that, like Perez, Ben Gurion, Olmert, Beilin and many others, Yitzak Rabin was a Socialist Judenrot with little pride nor respect for Jews, Jewish history, Jewish culture and most assuradly Judaism. On that regard, like Dr. Goldstein, I do hope one day there will be a park or even a highway named after them.
There are many Jewish anti-Jews of little self worth, that do immense damage to Jewry in their quest towards "utopia"; in this case a "Jewish" Utopia with the main example: Perfidy- Ben Hect which too outlines the Aetalina affair.
You know, if one is a Christian that happens to be reading this you might read up on the Jacobins or the Fabian Socialist Society and see the "Christian" anti-Christians working to undermine Christians and Christianity...
.....to be continued......
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He's a hero not a "bastard" like you describe him. Watch you language.
No disrespect Tzvi but your hypocracy is second to none.
Yigal killed a fellow Jew. Thats agaist G-d's will.....and you have the nerve for crtiticizing someone for eating pork ? You talk about G-d's will and how much we should follow the Mitzvot and you seem to be encouraging us to do the complete opposite.
It appears that someone's Kosherness is more important than the life of a fellow Jew.... Sad stuff.
Rabin was no saint but we don't dispose of our own leaders by killing them. At the end of the day - HE WAS ELECTED
What are you talking about? There are many examples of heros in Jewish History of Jews killing other un/non-Jewish Jews. In 167 BCE, after Antiochus issued decrees in Judea forbidding Jewish religious practice, a rural Jewish priest from Modiin, Mattathias the Hasmonean, sparked the revolt against the Seleucid empire by refusing to worship the Greek gods. Mattathias slew a Hellenistic Jew (like Rabin, Perez, Chomsky, Marx, Olmert, Beilin etc.) who stepped forward to offer a sacrifice to an idol in Mattathias' place. He and his five sons fled to the wilderness of Judea. After Mattathias' death about one year later, his son Yahuda haMaccabee led an army of Jewish dissidents to victory over the Seleucid dynasty's Hellenized occupation. Pharisees Jews, like Yahuda haMaccabee killed many Greek/Hellenized Sadducees during this revolt/civil war... no?
So qq, you like SBT. I like him as well, although I do not agree with everything he places forward. Do you agree that Yigal Amir murdered Yitzak Rabin and disserves the death penalty, or do you believe that, (now polls are showing over 50% have their suspicians re: Government corruption) what Amir did was akin to a real Jew acting against an anti-Jew in trying to stop this awarding the murders of Jews with another Bolistinian State in the heartland of Biblica Judea?
I simply don't know. SBT seems to disregard any and all information that lessens the degree of what happened for Yigal Amir.......
I am convinced, as Barry Chamish , and I think Natan Gefen too, have shown, that Yigal Amir DID NOT kill Yitzchak Rabin. Israeli Intelligence was behind the people that shot him, he was shot after he got or was pushed into the car.
Even if he had killed him, and leaving aside the moral and halachic issues of doing so. It didn`t help, it led to shimon peres being elected next prime minister. He did not stop anything.
We know little of yigal amir`s motives. Do not assume he was even some great jew following what he thought was Halacha. From what I understand, he had a background in intelligence himself, he was a trainee lawyer. Do not think he did not know what was going on, I think it is very likely that he was in on the plan to frame the right. I recall reading in Chamish`s book, a written source showing that he actually described a whole conspiracy shortly after being arrested, or maybe under interrogation. But later he went quiet about that.
And I think it likely that the source I mentioned, that police records say he was a pedophile , is accurate. He was ideal for israeli intelligence to use since he could be blackmailed.
And even if he we pretend that he thought he was following halacha, then considering what he did, you have to be absolutely sure what he did was halachically correct. I am not even close to sure.
And shooting prime ministers sets a bad precedent.
I am interested in where you read about the maccabees - to apply it here? I know they are not mentioned in kahane audio or video currently available online. You could be right about militarily removing evil.. It is an interesting example.. I asked a rabbi about it, and he said see story about pinchas and zimri, it is similar. He wasn`t that clear, but when I said "I thought it needed a temple and sanhedrin and witnesses and the guy to agree, .. " before you can do the death penalty. He said this is a serious sin, leading the people to idolatry. I didn`t get a halachic source for it though. That`d be the important thing!
THe maccabees are quite deep into the bible, if there at all, they may even be only apocryphal
Maccabees 1 and 2 <-- apocryphal i think - prob not allowed to read it.
midrash chanukah
Megillat antiochus
I have not read any of them. I doubt most jews have.
And I have never really been that into history.. I`ll get to it eventually!
I`d like to know what neturei karta would make of that. They think we have to be subservient to the nations.
I asked a rabbi about moses killing the egyptian - how that was halachic if the halacha is somebody coming to kill you kill him first. He said there is a tradition that the egyptian was beating the hebrew to death, and the halacha is if somebody is coming to kill anybody(just a fellow jew?), then kill him first. A knowledgeable jew agreed, and said "We are all responsible for one another, I am my brother`s keeper" . He also said, that even if the egyptian was not going to kill the hebrew, moses would`ve been right to strike - not necessarily kill - but strike, the egyptian, because we do not gamble with each others lives.
SBT is very intellectual and interesting, but when I started listening to israel national radio, he left, then DBA came, I stayed listening, then he left, and I mostly stopped listening. Apart from the odd interview tamar yonah does. You can discover interesting people just from googling the name of the interviewee sometimes. Though I haven`t done that in a along while
The pinchas and zimri thing, and maccabees are things I only really now ran into/ thought about, since your post. I haven`t got any answers on them yet. I`m glad you brought it up..
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If he was going to start sacrifices for other gods then in essence he was no longer a Jew was he ?
Rabin who was also Jewish was democratically elected by the people of the state of Israel. Only the people or G-d have the right to remove him. No one had the right to kill him.
Once again, you and I have very similar intellects and opinions. Pretty soon, people on here are going to suspect us to be the same person ;)
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DILEBRETELY ?
He didnt diliberatly shoot Jewish men at the altalena incident?
No one ever said that Yitzak was innocent.
He didnt dilebratly run the state and furthur trying to currupt Jewish souls with anti-Judaism state run schools, media and the whole system.
How exactly did he corrupt Jewish souls? Was it by allowing Jurassic Park & Cheeseburgers into the state ?
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Once again, you and I have very similar intellects and opinions. Pretty soon, people on here are going to suspect us to be the same person
Great minds think alike ! :)