JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Yisrael on November 01, 2007, 03:29:05 AM
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I think we can enjoy them as long as we don't cause them needless pain and suffering.
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Not all animals are the same.
Dogs, cats, great apes and (particularly) whales are sentient creatures and should have legal protection.
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I deal with animals all the time not just the two legged kind.
Anyone that touchs my animals I would kill them.
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Any race that eats dogs, cats, horses, monkies or whales should be wiped out.
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Since I was a child I opposed even using milk, since we don't ask the cow for permission to take it. But what about plants? I was vegetarian until someone told me that I was unfair to plants, b/c I eat them, while I claimed to respect any living being. I was troubled and stormed several weeks, until I decided that since lions hunt to get food, we can also eat meat. However I don't dare to kill an animal, but buy meat at the butcher's.
Perhaps it would be better to eat only fruits so as to not hurt either animals or plants, and even be carefull to save the seeds inside each fruit. But that's imposible. Sometimes I have felt guilty for eating even bread, since it's made from wheat grain, a potential plant.
But hunting just for pleasure is objectionable, not only for the right of the animal, but because it makes us savage, and strengthens our evil inclination to enjoy cruelty
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Animal cruelty is not only against Jewish law but is also one of the seven noachide laws. Any human who inflicts needless cruelty on any animal should be tortured themselves.
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Animal cruelty is not only against Jewish law but is also one of the seven noachide laws. Any human who inflicts needless cruelty on any animal should be tortured themselves.
I agree. Painlessly slaying a domestic cow (in the Hallachic manner) is fine. Inflicting pain, terror and death on sentient creatures like whales, dogs etc is a crime.
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I agree. Animals can be eaten and slaughtered, but should not have to endure ANY suffering.
Newman :), just a question? What makes a whale any different from any other fish?
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I agree. Animals can be eaten and slaughtered, but should not have to endure ANY suffering.
Newman :), just a question? What makes a whale any different from any other fish?
A whale is not a fish. It's a mammal.(warm blooded, live young suckled with milk)
They are highly intelligent (more than dogs, cats or horses) and they suffer great physical pain and mental stress when hunted and killed. Not only that, sea mammals like whales have such an advanced social order and sonar vocabulary many scientists feel it could be concieved as 'culture'.
I believe animals like killer whales have a more advanced brain than the average black.
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ah ok, i wasn't aware that it's a Mammal :o
But then again, so is sheep and cows etc.
BUT, as you say, they endure much stress when hunted, then im with you on this ;)
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ah ok, i wasn't aware that it's a Mammal :o
But then again, so is sheep and cows etc.
BUT, as you say, they endure much stress when hunted, then im with you on this ;)
There is a difference between domestic cows/ sheep (on one hand) and horses/dogs or wild mammals (on the other).
The difference has to do with their sense of death. Domestic livestock can be quietly and painlessly slaughtered without panic and terror (hence the saying...'like lambs to the slaughter'). Other animals have a highly developed sense of death and suffer terror and panic (as humans do).
That is the reason for kosher food laws regarding animals(cloven hooves, chews the cud ie: cows, sheep and goats only). It's not an issue of cleanliness but one of suffering.
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somewhere between choice 2 and 3.
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If you hunt it needs to be shift and clean, I can't stand hunting as a rule, but understand sometimes culling needs to be done.
If you kill to survive for food, thats ok.
For Sport thats a different issue.
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If you hunt it needs to be shift and clean, I can't stand hunting as a rule, but understand sometimes culling needs to be done.
If you kill to survive for food, thats ok.
For Sport thats a different issue.
I totally agree infidel!
Also, killing in order to cull pests is also acceptable (e.g Rabbits and foxes)
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If you hunt it needs to be shift and clean, I can't stand hunting as a rule, but understand sometimes culling needs to be done.
If you kill to survive for food, thats ok.
For Sport thats a different issue.
I totally agree infidel!
Also, killing in order to cull pests is also acceptable (e.g Rabbits and foxes)
That's right. Take the Australian feral pig.
They're just like muslims. Ugly, smelly, savage, don't belong here and destroy the environment they live in. No problem erradicating them.
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If you hunt it needs to be shift and clean, I can't stand hunting as a rule, but understand sometimes culling needs to be done.
If you kill to survive for food, thats ok.
For Sport thats a different issue.
I totally agree infidel!
Also, killing in order to cull pests is also acceptable (e.g Rabbits and foxes)
That's right. Take the Australian feral pig.
They're just like muslims. Ugly, smelly, savage, don't belong here and destroy the environment they live in. No problem erradicating them.
hahahahahahha :D :D :D :D :D
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If you hunt it needs to be shift and clean, I can't stand hunting as a rule, but understand sometimes culling needs to be done.
If you kill to survive for food, thats ok.
For Sport thats a different issue.
I totally agree infidel!
Also, killing in order to cull pests is also acceptable (e.g Rabbits and foxes)
That's right. Take the Australian feral pig.
They're just like muslims. Ugly, smelly, savage, don't belong here and destroy the environment they live in. No problem erradicating them.
And breed uncontrolled, creating plague populations.
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Choice 3... otherwise we might join with PETA and begin to care more about animals than people!
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Choice 3... otherwise we might join with PETA and begin to care more about animals than people!
We should care more about animals than SOME people. If I see a dog and an arab both drowning 100 yards apart, I'll save the dog and laugh at the arab.
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Choice 3... otherwise we might join with PETA and begin to care more about animals than people!
We should care more about animals than SOME people. If I see a dog and an arab both drowning 100 yards apart, I'll save the dog and laugh at the arab.
arab is too nonspecific... how about an arab muslim nazi and a skunk?
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Choice 3... otherwise we might join with PETA and begin to care more about animals than people!
We should care more about animals than SOME people. If I see a dog and an arab both drowning 100 yards apart, I'll save the dog and laugh at the arab.
arab is too nonspecific... how about an arab muslim nazi and a skunk?
Only about 2% of arabs are non-muslim and 1.5% of them are Jew-hating scum. A shark is more worth saving.
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OK, I didn't know that... I thought that there would be more Non-Muslim Arabs :o!
The media seems to make it as though ONLY a small minority are Anti-Israel and that those are the militants who target Israel in rocket and suicide bomb attacks.
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I have no problem with slaughtering an animal myself for food, because that is nature. We have canine teeth for a reason.
I love making fun of greenpeace, because they are stupid people that think, animals are same as human beings. Of course animals have also personalities. I have two Pugs. They are completely different. And if someone inflicted pain on them I'd probably react as someone has killed my mother or sibling.
I'm for regulated hunting because we have to keep some animal populations to a limit. Like moose in sweden.
Im a pure carnivore, I eat meat Every single day and I love it. Especially pork... and Wild boar:D
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Genesis 9:1-4
1And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
2And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
3Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
We shud not be unnascesery cruel like muslims to them but all this animal rights; Gaya worship eco sensitivity trainings or rather worship are NEW AGE inventions made up by neo pagan eco-loons.
Wales and dolphins are suposedlu inteligent species but did somenone realy talked to them? Can they be converted to monotheist religion? :D
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Wales and dolphins are suposedlu inteligent species but did somenone realy talked to them? Can they be converted to monotheist religion? :D
No, but as creatures of a higher intelligence than all others they are entitled to our protection and greater consideration than sheep & cattle.
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Wales and dolphins are suposedlu inteligent species but did somenone realy talked to them? Can they be converted to monotheist religion? :D
No, but as creatures of a higher intelligence than all others they are entitled to our protection and greater consideration than sheep & cattle.
Well We can live without food harvested from them; That's I'm sure. :)
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Funny ,I dreamed about cows and sheep and then I saw the pigs,not cute but disgusting!weird.I don't eat it anymore.Full of worms.Vile! :)
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Whats this post about??? Muslims should not have rights !!!!!!!!!!
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I agree with your point. ;)
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Choice 3... otherwise we might join with PETA and begin to care more about animals than people!
We should care more about animals than SOME people. If I see a dog and an arab both drowning 100 yards apart, I'll save the dog and laugh at the arab.
arab is too nonspecific... how about an arab muslim nazi and a skunk?
Only about 2% of arabs are non-muslim and 1.5% of them are Jew-hating scum. A shark is more worth saving.
I like sharks.
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Whats this post about??? Muslims should not have rights !!!!!!!!!!
What post? ???
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I like candy. ;) :)
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Whats this post about??? Muslims should not have rights !!!!!!!!!!
What post? ???
Animal rights, get it (Muslims are animals....lol)?
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I believe that we have a duty to be as kind as possible to all animals and to prevent their suffering up to a reasonable point. Harm should only be done to certain animals when the benefit derived from doing so is great and when the pain caused to the animal is minimal. I have no problem with slaughtering some animals for food because the nourishment we get is so important to our health and happiness. I don't have a problem with hunting certain types of animals, as long as it is for non-frivolous food and as long as the entire edible part of the animal is eaten. This doesn't include any animal that has superstitious or supposed spiritual benefits like eating the brains of a monkey, or eating certain types of meat that are supposed to increase your sexual dynamism.
Hunting creatures such as whales and dolphins is as much or more of a crime than killing a human being. The way the Chinese eat dogs and cats and use animals for their fur, ripping their skin off of them alive and allowing their naked corpses to die a slow death is on the level of mass atrocities. Anyone who treats such a large amount of animals in such a way deserves to die himself.
I am opposed to all furs because they not only are very unattractive and gaudy, but they are completely unnecessary and the animals that are killed to make fur are killed and nothing is done with the body. I don't have a problem with leather as long as the leather is from cows that were slaughtered for meat.
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This doesn't include any animal that has superstitious or supposed spiritual benefits like eating the brains of a monkey, or eating certain types of meat that are supposed to increase your sexual dynamism.
Hunting creatures such as whales and dolphins is as much or more of a crime than killing a human being. The way the Chinese eat dogs and cats and use animals for their fur, ripping their skin off of them alive and allowing their naked corpses to die a slow death is on the level of mass atrocities. Anyone who treats such a large amount of animals in such a way deserves to die himself.
Disgusting, little zipper-heads who kill endangered species just to get more sexual prowess ought to be killed. There's over a billion of the little monkies now, what's there sexual problem?
Killing highly intelligent, man-friendly creatures like whales, dogs and cats should be considered murder. Many scientists who study killer whales and dolphins have observed that their family/social structures are extremely close and complex. They also have such a highly diverse 'vocabulary' with their sonar calls that these scientists believe it constitutes a form of culture, not simple, instinctive animal behaviour. As such, they should be considered as a community, not just animals.
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Whats this post about??? Muslims should not have rights !!!!!!!!!!
What post? ???
Animal rights, get it (Muslims are animals....lol)?
LOL sorry only two hours sleep :-[ :laugh:
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Animal rights, get it (Muslims are animals....lol)?
So are black widow spiders, rattlesnakes and scorpions!
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The country which had the most "advanced" legislation for "animal rights" was Nazi Germany.
The Nazis were the most fanatic in their demand for "animal rights" to the extent that they created laws giving all animals the same "equal rights" as human beings...simultaneously while they created laws declaring a Jew to be a subhuman which had to be eliminated from the planet.
Anyone causing distress to an animal in Hitler's Germany was subject to the most severe punishment and prosecution, while anyone murdering and torturing Jews in Hitler's Germany was to receive the highest praise and rewards of good citizenship.
Surprised?
Perhaps you thought legislating "animal rights" was something "new", something reflective of our "advanced consciousness"?
Here's something I guarantee you can count on:
If and when a society declares animals to have the same "rights" as do humans (Germany legislated this just recently), that society and those like it will simultaneously reduce the Jew to sub-human and sub-animal status.
And, this has already happened and is playing out before your very eyes every day all across the globe...
Nazi Muslim drek murder and maim Jews every single day, and the same people "concerned" about "animal rights" turn a blind eye.
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Animal rights, get it (Muslims are animals....lol)?
So are black widow spiders, rattlesnakes and scorpions!
but I'd prefer being near one of those, to being near a muslim :::D
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The country which had the most "advanced" legislation for "animal rights" was Nazi Germany.
The Nazis were the most fanatic in their demand for "animal rights" to the extent that they created laws giving all animals the same "equal rights" as human beings...simultaneously while they created laws declaring a Jew to be a subhuman which had to be eliminated from the planet.
Anyone causing distress to an animal in Hitler's Germany was subject to the most severe punishment and prosecution, while anyone murdering and torturing Jews in Hitler's Germany was to receive the highest praise and rewards of good citizenship.
Surprised?
Perhaps you thought legislating "animal rights" was something "new", something reflective of our "advanced consciousness"?
Here's something I guarantee you can count on:
If and when a society declares animals to have the same "rights" as do humans (Germany legislated this just recently), that society and those like it will simultaneously reduce the Jew to sub-human and sub-animal status.
And, this has already happened and is playing out before your very eyes every day all across the globe...
Nazi Muslim drek murder and maim Jews every single day, and the same people "concerned" about "animal rights" turn a blind eye.
You can't make that link. It's like saying that the biggest beer drinkers in the USA are southern KKK rednecks, so beer consumption leads to anti-semitism.
The western concept of animal rights came to us via Judaism (like all our concepts of morallity/ kindness).
Nobody is saying we should accord animals equal status (who said they should own real estate or vote?). We are saying they have SOME rights. Children do NOT have equal rights! They are told where to live, where and when to attend school, get spanked, what to eat etc. You can do NONE of those things to an adult.They DO, however have protection under the law. Animals should be accorded similar consideration.
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There is no prohibition to non-Jews on the type of animals that they can eat. Therefore dolphins and apes would be in the same category as lambs and cows. The important part is the fact that they are dead before any part of them is removed for consumption.
The laws of Noah are a bare minimum, not the be all and end all.
Because there is no prohibition in the sheva mitvot on something, doesn't mean nations cannot prohibit something undesirable under secular law.
There is no prohibition under the Sheva Mitzvot on pornography, prostitution or sex with 13 year olds. Should we NOT the right to outlaw those things?
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Re: "...You can't make that link..."
I can.
I did.
I can back it up with documentation.
And I stand behind every word in the post.
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There is no prohibition to non-Jews on the type of animals that they can eat. Therefore dolphins and apes would be in the same category as lambs and cows. The important part is the fact that they are dead before any part of them is removed for consumption.
The laws of Noah are a bare minimum, not the be all and end all.
Because there is no prohibition in the sheva mitvot on something, doesn't mean nations cannot prohibit something undesirable under secular law.
There is no prohibition under the Sheva Mitzvot on pornography, prostitution or sex with 13 year olds. Should we NOT the right to outlaw those things?
In eyes of Hashem, killing a cat or dog is not considered "murder" for a non-Jew any more than killing a kosher animal. Yeah, it's possible to make more civil laws, but those would just be according to a particular nation's opinion and not necessarily affect the rest of the world. Therefore a nation that just did the bare minimum would not be wrong. And in my opinion, it's not right to kill people for eating monkey if the monkey was slaughtered properly, even if I personally would not eat monkey. I also don't believe people should be killed for pornography or prostitution, which are "lewdness" but not a capital crime. So when making general judgments like this that apply to the whole world, it's best to speak where the Halacha speaks and be silent where it is silent.
The 7 Laws are only a foundation. Rabbis have expressed the view that a whole raft of secular laws may be enacted by nations as adjuncts to the 7 laws. Treason is not a violation of the 7 Laws but it is still a capital crime (under secular law). Consentual sex with a 13 year old girl is NOT prohibited under the 7 laws but it is punnishable by very long prison terms.
Secondly, the book is NOT closed on Rabbinical interpretation of the Seven Laws. Look at the time, place and circumstances they were first written down. Those people had ZERO knowledge or understanding of any animals beyond their livestock, fish catches or the occasional lion. They had NO understanding of the nature of whales or great apes. They thought whales were fish! So there views on the eating of whales relative to the 7 Laws are null and void. They had no way of knowing a gorilla has 98% human DNA. If they did, they might have considered it cannibalism.
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In eyes of Hashem, killing a cat or dog is not considered "murder" for a non-Jew any more than killing a kosher animal
How do you know?
The commandment is "Though shalt not murder". There is no qualification on murder. If a Doctor operates on a patient while drunk, we don't consider it 'murder' in our courts but 'manslaughter' or some other term.. Religious law might. Similarly, a farmer/butcher is allowed to slaughter domestic animals for consumption. Doing the same to a cat or dog is 'agravated cruelty' and a criminal offense. My point is that 'agravated cruelty' or 'manslaughter' are just alternative terms for a different degree of murder.
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It's not rabbis with a limited knowledge who permitted man to kill any animal he wanted for consumption, but G-d himself, and this is the basis for the rabbis' interpretation:
Genesis 9: 2-5:
2. And your fear and your dread shall be upon all the beasts of the earth and upon all the fowl of the heaven; upon everything that creeps upon the ground and upon all the fish of the sea, [for] they have been given into your hands.
3. Every moving thing that lives shall be yours to eat; like the green vegetation, I have given you everything.
4. But, flesh with its soul, its blood, you shall not eat.
5. But your blood, of your souls, I will demand [an account]; from the hand of every beast I will demand it, and from the hand of man, from the hand of each man, his brother, I will demand the soul of man.
This is the verse where G-d sticks it to PETA. Bottom line, it's not the species that matters, but the method of killing that matters.
You are making the same mistake as christians. You are grabbing translted versus from Torah and attempting to interperate them yourself. Any Rabbi will tell you you CAN'T interperate Torah PROPERLY without Talmud.
Smoking was NOT prohibited (in Judaism) until recently because scienific evidence proved it's harm.
The scientific jury is still out on the nature of great apes and whales.
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I think we can enjoy them as long as we don't cause them needless pain and suffering.
I agree
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But the Torah doesn't mention Crack or date rape drugs either! ;)
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I'm not really doing what Christians do, because I'm taking the Tanach in context. Christians' problem is that they read meanings into the text that aren't there. I'm going by the plain meaning of the text, known as the p'shat. If it says "every moving thing that lives" then we can be pretty sure that G-d doesn't consider it "murder" for non-Jews to kill any particular animal for consumption. And the Talmud has not contradicted this. Also, smoking wasn't explicitly stated by G-d as being permissible to people.
So you are in favour of pornography and prostitution for gentiles because they are NOT prohibited by the 7 Laws?
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I'm not really doing what Christians do, because I'm taking the Tanach in context. Christians' problem is that they read meanings into the text that aren't there. I'm going by the plain meaning of the text, known as the p'shat. If it says "every moving thing that lives" then we can be pretty sure that G-d doesn't consider it "murder" for non-Jews to kill any particular animal for consumption. And the Talmud has not contradicted this. Also, smoking wasn't explicitly stated by G-d as being permissible to people.
So you are in favour of pornography and prostitution for gentiles because they are NOT prohibited by the 7 Laws?
It's not the place of Jews to force non-Jews to do any more than the 7 laws. After that it is up to individual non-Jews as to what they want to do. The reason that Jews are hated so much in the black community is that liberal Jews came in and explained to blacks that they deserve equality, so that after they attain it they can give up their individual culture and become "citizens of the world." Bottom line, beyond the 7 laws, Jews have no rights to tell non-Jews how to act.
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ouch! ;)
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I'm not really doing what Christians do, because I'm taking the Tanach in context. Christians' problem is that they read meanings into the text that aren't there. I'm going by the plain meaning of the text, known as the p'shat. If it says "every moving thing that lives" then we can be pretty sure that G-d doesn't consider it "murder" for non-Jews to kill any particular animal for consumption. And the Talmud has not contradicted this. Also, smoking wasn't explicitly stated by G-d as being permissible to people.
So you are in favour of pornography and prostitution for gentiles because they are NOT prohibited by the 7 Laws?
No, but G-d didn't explicitly permit those either. And if they were outlawed, I would not favor a punishment as extreme as the punishment for transgressing the actual 7 Laws.
What is noyt prohibited IS allowed.
My point is that Nations have every right to enact Laws beyond the Laws of Noah as long as nobody makes a claim that they are holy commandments. This is Rabbinical oppinion.
As for severity, there is no prohibition in the 7 Laws against treason, yet we punnish it by death. Same applies to killing whales, apes, dogs cats or horses IMO.
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I chose other.
I would have chosen:"Enjoy them for food, clothing, medicine, just don't hurt them needlessly"
But I am against the clothing thing. I just don't' believe in wearing fur, it's sick in my opinion. With women specially, why would ANY woman need a fur coat? I mean, back in the olden days, yes humans needed to wear animals in order to keep warm etc...but now we have other materials, we don't need animal skin. I also avoid leather although my family likes leather...I'm tolerant.
G_d gave all living things to us as food...BUT, there is a proviso in Talmud that we are NOT to cause "unneccessary" suffering.
The point here is that with crops, fish and regular livestock widely available, killing sentient creatures like whales and great apes is UNNECCESSARY. Think about it. The amount of resources involved in the contruction of a whaling fleet, the fuel and labour involved would build huge feedlots and farms for sheep and cattle and poduce far more kilojoules than the amount of whalemeat they harvest.
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So true Newman!
My reason also for being against wearing animals ESPECIALLY for women is that a fur coat is a source of vanity for a female. I mean, they are too expensive and all they want to do is show off their fur coat (like an expensive minx coat) Pure vanity and I am against it since I am into more modesty. Also, who eats minxes or foxes? They are only hunted and killed for fur, to feed a woman's vanity. So that is my issue.
Also, with leather, some people also wear it for vanity, to show off their big expensive leather purse. Of course, not all, but some do, some leahter products range from cheap to expensive.
Exactly.
I don't know what the dollar cost of whale meat/kilojuol is but I bet it's rediculous. The Japs only do it out of arrogance. They hate being told what to do. The market for whale meat in Japan continues to shrink with tons of it remaining unsold in freezers.
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[Japs] hate being told what to do.
Who doesn't?
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As long as it isnt Saar Baale Chaim.
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Funny ,I dreamed about cows and sheep and then I saw the pigs,not cute but disgusting!weird.I don't eat it anymore.Full of worms.Vile! :)
You have to check the meat before consumption, and other animals also have parasites.
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Choice 3... otherwise we might join with PETA and begin to care more about animals than people!
We should care more about animals than SOME people. If I see a dog and an arab both drowning 100 yards apart, I'll save the dog and laugh at the arab.
:::D So will I
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So true Newman!
My reason also for being against wearing animals ESPECIALLY for women is that a fur coat is a source of vanity for a female. I mean, they are too expensive and all they want to do is show off their fur coat (like an expensive minx coat) Pure vanity and I am against it since I am into more modesty. Also, who eats minxes or foxes? They are only hunted and killed for fur, to feed a woman's vanity. So that is my issue.
Also, with leather, some people also wear it for vanity, to show off their big expensive leather purse. Of course, not all, but some do, some leahter products range from cheap to expensive.
Exactly.
I don't know what the dollar cost of whale meat/kilojuol is but I bet it's rediculous. The Japs only do it out of arrogance. They hate being told what to do. The market for whale meat in Japan continues to shrink with tons of it remaining unsold in freezers.
the leather is best for shoes, jacket and belts for ex; the weraing of sintetics is harmful to your health as its couses alergies; I wore only 100% natural clothes ; but the purses, satchels etc... can be made from synthetic leather. The pigs and cows are slughtered for meat anyway and their hides are relatively inexpensive. BTW Torah allow to eat fish but wales and dolphins are mamals and we don't to eat them in first place.
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I think #3 sums it up perfectly! Animals should be slaughtered only for food and materials, and should only be slaughtered in the quickest and most humane way possible. There's no reasons to stomp on the chickens and throw them against the wall. PETA has a video on this which I saw one time. It made me absolutely sick to my stomach. PETA might be a bunch of fanatics. But their videos are enough to make even the most cold hearted and strongest stomachs to really be affected.
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Very true indeed Daniel
Animals should be killed in the most humane way. I saw a video clip of the baby seals and its quite a shock how they smash their skulls mercilessly. I'd like to take a baseball bat and smash one of the hunter's for a change.
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Very true indeed Daniel
Animals should be killed in the most humane way. I saw a video clip of the baby seals and its quite a shock how they smash their skulls mercilessly. I'd like to take a baseball bat and smash one of the hunter's for a change.
That also reminds me of a video I saw on TV one time which showed how in Asian countries, they capture a certain type of shark, they cut off their fins with the shark being fully conscious and alive, bleeding all over the place. They then dump the shark into the water where it plummets uncontrollably to the bottom of the ocean and drowns. It was one of the most horrifying and inhumane things I've ever seen!
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Its sad stuff..... :'(
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That shark story is horrible! Reminds me of a show I saw on Animal Planet where the ASPCA officers go and protect animals in residential areas. One time they went to investigate a complaint about hearing animals yelping for help. THey went to a house and heard yelping in a garbage bin. Opened it and found 8 newborn puppies in a plastic bag under a whole bunch of garbage... a lot of them died of suffocation and only 2 survived - barely... Very sad.. and I too agree that animals should only be killed when necessary and when done in the most humane/quickest way possible.
I have recently started to enjoy the sport of target shooting with rifles/bow and arrows. And I sometimes go out on hunting trips with friends of mine and watch them hunt deer - they do so both for pleasure and for food (the actual HUNT is a pleasure, not the killing of the animal - I hope you know what I mean). I have never actually killed a deer myself because I am pretty squeemish when it comes to the skinning/fileting... When they 'take' the deer as they call it, they do so in a very efficient manner - always trying to get them in the heart or head with one shot. And if they ever fail in the instant kill, they very quickly go to the wounded animal and finish it off. I'm just telling you this in case anyone has a grudge against deer hunters and may not know exactly how it's done. I think the whole practice of hunting is a very natural thing. Again, as long as it's done where you're going to eat the animal and there is no unneeded suffering I think it's fine.
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That shark story is horrible! Reminds me of a show I saw on Animal Planet where the ASPCA officers go and protect animals in residential areas. One time they went to investigate a complaint about hearing animals yelping for help. THey went to a house and heard yelping in a garbage bin. Opened it and found 8 newborn puppies in a plastic bag under a whole bunch of garbage... a lot of them died of suffocation and only 2 survived - barely... Very sad.. and I too agree that animals should only be killed when necessary and when done in the most humane/quickest way possible.
I have recently started to enjoy the sport of target shooting with rifles/bow and arrows. And I sometimes go out on hunting trips with friends of mine and watch them hunt deer - they do so both for pleasure and for food (the actual HUNT is a pleasure, not the killing of the animal - I hope you know what I mean). I have never actually killed a deer myself because I am pretty squeemish when it comes to the skinning/fileting... When they 'take' the deer as they call it, they do so in a very efficient manner - always trying to get them in the heart or head with one shot. And if they ever fail in the instant kill, they very quickly go to the wounded animal and finish it off. I'm just telling you this in case anyone has a grudge against deer hunters and may not know exactly how it's done. I think the whole practice of hunting is a very natural thing. Again, as long as it's done where you're going to eat the animal and there is no unneeded suffering I think it's fine.
You should watch the movie Powder. There's this great scene where this obnoxious guy shoots a deer and laughs about it as the deer lay dying on the ground. Powder touches the deer and then touches the guy and the guy experiences the exact feelings that the deer is experiencing. The guy completely freeks out and is never able to go hunting again afterwards.
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I don't think the Torah distinguishes between dolphins/whales and other fish/water creatures in general. The reason is because the Torah doesn't use the same classification system as modern scientists use. For example, in Leviticus 11:19 the bat ("atalef") is included among the bird species that are forbidden for Jews to eat, but the bat is not classified as a bird by modern scientists. So dolphins and whales would probably be included in the fish/water creature category, and would only be forbidden to Jews because they don't meet the Torah's requirement of having both fins and scales. Another indicator that the Torah included them in the fish category comes from the fact that the prophet Jonah was swallowed by a probable whale, which is referred to as a "dag" in the Hebrew, which translates to "fish" and is the same word used in Genesis 9 when G-d permits all fish of the sea to Noah's descendants.
Whales are NOT FISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They're MAMMALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Besides, the Torah forbids "unneccessary suffering". Given that whales suffer hugely when slaughtered (there is NO humane way to kill a whale) the killing of ANY of them constitutes unneccessary suffering!