JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: The Shadow on November 06, 2007, 09:38:02 PM
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If you believed in black magic, and met with a group of people, to put a curse on someone you really hated, and that person died, could you ever be tried for murder?
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not even in Israel did the try Eskin after he cursed "Rabin" and then Rabin died
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Theres four types of magic, white, red, black and green.
Depending on countries laws yes you can be changed with murder.
Africa, Australia, South Pacific Islands, South America, North America, Italy, Greece, Cuba, Haiti most of the EU and Russia these laws are still in place. Those are ones I know of. I don't think many countries don't have a law somewhere about it.
But you curse or hex another it will come back on you 10 fold.
Never do it yourself there are other ways.
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not even in Israel did the try Eskin after he cursed "Rabin" and then Rabin died
That is not magic but rather Pulsa D'Nura.
Magic is idolatry.
true, but from a secular government's perspective there would probably not be too much of a difference in terms of crime etc.
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Maimonities says that there is no such thing as real magic with powers. He says only fools believe in such things.
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Maimonities says that there is no such thing as real magic with powers. He says only fools believe in such things.
Kabbalah is separate from that though
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not even in Israel did the try Eskin after he cursed "Rabin" and then Rabin died
That is not magic but rather Pulsa D'Nura.
Magic is idolatry.
I have readed, that magic exists. But there are no different species of magic. Every magic is "evil" and forbidden in the bible, because magic is worshipping of other powers than g-d. The sorcerer is not able to do anything without the help of the devil. The art of magic is only to give signs to the demons to carry out some act. But the demon is not controlled by the sorcerer. He does the act only, because he tries to bring the sorcerer away from g-d.
I have some christian books about this issues. I stay away from this things. I think horoscopes and Ouija boards are the same categorie. This is nothing for me. 8)
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Maimonities says that there is no such thing as real magic with powers. He says only fools believe in such things.
Kabbalah is separate from that though
Well, the Rambam obviously doesn't believe in these Kabbalists who think they can do magic and regards them as fools. Anyways, according to the Rambam the prohibition against practicing sorcery has nothing to do with it having powers. Anyone who tries to do sorcery violates the Torah's prohibition even though there is no special power to it.
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Maimonities says that there is no such thing as real magic with powers. He says only fools believe in such things.
Kabbalah is separate from that though
Well, the Rambam obviously doesn't believe in these Kabbalists who think they can do magic and regards them as fools. Anyways, according to the Rambam the prohibition against practicing sorcery has nothing to do with it having powers. Anyone who tries to do sorcery violates the Torah's prohibition even though there is no special power to it.
I thought Kabbala is a Philosophie. I have to learn more :)
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Maimonities says that there is no such thing as real magic with powers. He says only fools believe in such things.
Kabbalah is separate from that though
Well, the Rambam obviously doesn't believe in these Kabbalists who think they can do magic and regards them as fools. Anyways, according to the Rambam the prohibition against practicing sorcery has nothing to do with it having powers. Anyone who tries to do sorcery violates the Torah's prohibition even though there is no special power to it.
That's not the point of the question. Most people don't believe in black magic. It was a hypothetical question- just for fun
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Maimonities says that there is no such thing as real magic with powers. He says only fools believe in such things.
Kabbalah is separate from that though
Well, the Rambam obviously doesn't believe in these Kabbalists who think they can do magic and regards them as fools. Anyways, according to the Rambam the prohibition against practicing sorcery has nothing to do with it having powers. Anyone who tries to do sorcery violates the Torah's prohibition even though there is no special power to it.
That's not the point of the question. Most people don't believe in black magic. It was a hypothetical question- just for fun
Most countries believe in it, and its still widely practiced.
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not even in Israel did the try Eskin after he cursed "Rabin" and then Rabin died
That is not magic but rather Pulsa D'Nura.
Magic is idolatry.
I have readed, that magic exists. But there are no different species of magic. Every magic is "evil" and forbidden in the bible, because magic is worshipping of other powers than g-d. The sorcerer is not able to do anything without the help of the devil. The art of magic is only to give signs to the demons to carry out some act. But the demon is not controlled by the sorcerer. He does the act only, because he tries to bring the sorcerer away from g-d.
I have some christian books about this issues. I stay away from this things. I think horoscopes and Ouija boards are the same categorie. This is nothing for me. 8)
Everything comes from G-D good and evil. there is only one power. even Satan is doing the will of G-D.
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not even in Israel did the try Eskin after he cursed "Rabin" and then Rabin died
That is not magic but rather Pulsa D'Nura.
Magic is idolatry.
I have readed, that magic exists. But there are no different species of magic. Every magic is "evil" and forbidden in the bible, because magic is worshipping of other powers than g-d. The sorcerer is not able to do anything without the help of the devil. The art of magic is only to give signs to the demons to carry out some act. But the demon is not controlled by the sorcerer. He does the act only, because he tries to bring the sorcerer away from g-d.
I have some christian books about this issues. I stay away from this things. I think horoscopes and Ouija boards are the same categorie. This is nothing for me. 8)
Everything comes from G-D good and evil. there is only one power. even Satan is doing the will of G-D.
I agree. In the end the devil can do nothing without the authorization of g-d.
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http://www.mswm.org/devil.satanworship.occulthell.htm
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/other_occult_practices.html
http://www.ankerberg.com/Articles/new-age/NA0605W2.htm
Above are links to a few of those sites
This link here http://www.watchman.org/cat95.htm
Will show you the extent that it has spread over the world.
New Age spiritualism
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Everything comes from G-D good and evil. there is only one power. even Satan is doing the will of G-D.
SO you are saying god wants us to be evil? :-\
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Everything comes from G-D good and evil. there is only one power. even Satan is doing the will of G-D.
SO you are saying G-d wants us to be evil? :-\
No evil is a choice.that G-D gave us.
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You are wrong
Satan was cut off from god when he was banished from heaven
just as like someone in hell is cut off from god
satan cant do the will of got if he has no connection
and also evil doesnt come from god
god is perfect without sin
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You are wrong
Satan was cut off from G-d when he was banished from heaven
just as like someone in hell is cut off from G-d
satan cant do the will of got if he has no connection
and also evil doesnt come from G-d
G-d is perfect without sin
In Christain teaching that is how they understand. But in the Torah it is different.
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You are wrong
Satan was cut off from G-d when he was banished from heaven
just as like someone in hell is cut off from G-d
satan cant do the will of got if he has no connection
and also evil doesnt come from G-d
G-d is perfect without sin
I think Satan is cut of from G-d and want's to harm the people through different evil tricks. Magic is one of these tricks. But he is not able to harm people against the will of god, because god is almighty.
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Everything comes from G-D good and evil. there is only one power. even Satan is doing the will of G-D.
SO you are saying G-d wants us to be evil? :-\
No evil is a choice.that G-D gave us.
Evil is the absence of Good that is it. Not created by god.
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Everything comes from G-D good and evil. there is only one power. even Satan is doing the will of G-D.
SO you are saying G-d wants us to be evil? :-\
No evil is a choice.that G-D gave us.
Evil is the absence of Good that is it. Not created by G-d.
Good is never absence. adam eat of the tree of good and evil. they stand side by side for us to choose.
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I don't know anything about magic of any kind. But I have just cursed many people and all of them have died or been hurt. The only one who died too late was Saddam Hussein. And Tony Blair who still lives.
I never cursed Arafat, just because I thought that he would never make "peace", so he was more convenient that a moderate Pali willing to sign "peace" (Leftist term for "Anihilation of Jews"). I also have never cursed a traitor Jew, just for respect of his Neshama.
Once a "man" was making fun of the victims of the terror attacks in Argentina against AMIA. He passed by my home and shouted "AMIA BOOOOOM"
I told him: "The victims in AMIA died under falling bricks, as you make fun of them, now I curse you, may your head be broken by a brick". Some weeks later, a brick destroyed his head, but he survived.
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I don't know anything about magic of any kind. But I have just cursed many people and all of them have died or been hurt. The only one who died too late was Saddam Hussein. And Tony Blair who still lives.
I never cursed Arafat, just because I thought that he would never make "peace", so he was more convenient that a moderate Pali willing to sign "peace" (Leftist term for "Anihilation of Jews"). I also have never cursed a traitor Jew, just for respect of his Neshama.
Once a "man" was making fun of the victims of the terror attacks in Argentina against AMIA. He passed by my home and shouted "AMIA BOOOOOM"
I told him: "The victims in AMIA died under falling bricks, as you make fun of them, now I curse you, may your head be broken by a brick". Some weeks later, a brick destroyed his head, but he survived.
Raul, I don't want to get on your bad side!! Just in case you do have some kind of power
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Everything comes from G-D good and evil. there is only one power. even Satan is doing the will of G-D.
SO you are saying G-d wants us to be evil? :-\
No evil is a choice.that G-D gave us.
Evil is the absence of Good that is it. Not created by G-d.
Good is never absence. adam eat of the tree of good and evil. they stand side by side for us to choose.
It was the tree of knowledge and you are quite correct knowledge is both good and evil depends on how it can be used.
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No, The Shadow, it is very unlikely that he would be able to be charged with murder. Even if he confessed, they would do an autopsy and find the reason of death and find that the cause of death was not due to a typical death, but was part of a natural process and the jury and judge would believe that the death happened naturally and that the defendant is likely crazy. The prosecutor would have to prove that the death was due to the black magic beyond a reasonable doubt, and no sensible jury would believe this claim because there would be a huge doubt as to whether it was naturally caused. If a jury came back with a guilty verdict the judge would most likely throw it out, unless he was absolutely convinced that black magic was real. Theoretically you could get a conviction but you would have to prove to the lawyers, the jury, and the judge that black magic is real.
If you lived in a country where people think black magic is real, you could get a conviction, but if you lived in any Western country the chance of conviction would be as low as would a defense of murder that "God told you to do it."
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Raul, I don't want to get on your bad side!! Just in case you do have some kind of power
In fact I may have powers unfortunately, not because of the curses, but the problem is that I may also harm myself unwittingly. Anyway if you are a Jew, Jews are beyond any power. And why would I attempt to harm you?
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No, The Shadow, it is very unlikely that he would be able to be charged with murder. Even if he confessed, they would do an autopsy and find the reason of death and find that the cause of death was not due to a typical death, but was part of a natural process and the jury and judge would believe that the death happened naturally and that the defendant is likely crazy. The prosecutor would have to prove that the death was due to the black magic beyond a reasonable doubt, and no sensible jury would believe this claim because there would be a huge doubt as to whether it was naturally caused. If a jury came back with a guilty verdict the judge would most likely throw it out, unless he was absolutely convinced that black magic was real. Theoretically you could get a conviction but you would have to prove to the lawyers, the jury, and the judge that black magic is real.
If you lived in a country where people think black magic is real, you could get a conviction, but if you lived in any Western country the chance of conviction would be as low as would a defense of murder that "G-d told you to do it."
Well put Zev. I agree 100% with you.