JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Srbin on November 07, 2007, 10:21:27 AM
-
Note: Don't get this message wrong.
Listen up dear JTFer's.
I got to say that we are getting to far with insulting muslims in PUBLIC. If a muslims smells like we saw one thread about it, you don't need to show it here. Hold it for yourself. It gives us just bad reputation. After all islam is the biggest relgion in the world right now, and they have many supporters. JTF isn't trying to insult everyone right? Just nazis, terrorists and those crappies. I know that many of you us has muslim friends, and the matter of fact, me too. He is not a terrorist or any kind of an "evil" muslim. Just a human as we. And about my friends jews. All muslims don't hate jews right? (Don't know that one, explain someone.) There was just a nazicroat that made a video about JTF in a negative way (can't remember where to find the video), and there are people out there that listens too him because everything seems so logical into their eyes. It's just because they maybe have a muslim friend, and the thoughts in those peoples heads are: JTF is bad, my best friend is a muslim and they hate all muslims.
Or in some other ways. So... is it really neccassery to share thoughts in public?. It's just my opinion about this. After all, the majority of human kind believes in propaganda (not JTF :D).
JTFer's, what about a change?
-
O0
-
O0
Thx for your quick respond :)
-
I don't have any Muslim friends.
Except Sarah, I guess :'(
-
I don't have any Muslim friends.
Except Sarah, I guess :'(
Muslims are human, don't worry.
I have two Muslim freinds, actually one of tham is helping me with Arabic.
-
I don't have any Muslim friends.
Except Sarah, I guess :'(
Muslims are human, don't worry.
I have two Muslim freinds, actually one of tham is helping me in Arabic.
Laaaa, wahuwa minween bizzabt, ramalla?
-
I don't have any Muslim friends.
Except Sarah, I guess :'(
Muslims are human, don't worry.
I have two Muslim freinds, actually one of tham is helping me in Arabic.
Laaaa, wahuwa minween bizzabt, ramalla?
سالام, يىدياة نن قاباتا
;)
-
There are NO moderate muslims. Islam is a monstrous religion. ANYONE who adheres to it is a monster. Wake up!!!!!!!
-
There are NO moderate muslims. Islam is a monstrous religion. ANYONE who adheres to it is a monster. Wake up!!!!!!!
Even if it is, people support it. And we get the bad reputation talking [censored] about them.
-
There are NO moderate muslims. Islam is a monstrous religion. ANYONE who adheres to it is a monster. Wake up!!!!!!!
Do you think every Muslim read in the Quran all day ? That they actually know what their religion saying in a deep prespective ? And there are moderate Muslims, as there are Moderate people in any group/religion.
-
There are NO moderate muslims. Islam is a monstrous religion. ANYONE who adheres to it is a monster. Wake up!!!!!!!
Even if it is, people support it. And we get the bad reputation talking excrement about them.
]
Good.
As Kahane said...." We must bury respectability before respectability burries us".
Anyone who supports islmo-fascism is the enemy of all humanity.
-
There are NO moderate muslims. Islam is a monstrous religion. ANYONE who adheres to it is a monster. Wake up!!!!!!!
Do you think every Muslim read in the Quran all day ? That they actually know what their religion saying in a deep prespective ? And there are moderate Muslims, as there are Moderate people in any group/religion.
If there are 'moderate' muslims, Dexter why do we NEVER EVER see or hear them condemning the radical ones?
-
There are NO moderate muslims. Islam is a monstrous religion. ANYONE who adheres to it is a monster. Wake up!!!!!!!
Even if it is, people support it. And we get the bad reputation talking excrement about them.
]
Good.
As Kahane said...." We must bury respectability before respectability burries us".
Anyone who supports islmo-fascism is the enemy of all humanity.
Well said !!!
-
I don't have any Muslim friends.
Except Sarah, I guess :'(
Muslims are human, don't worry.
I have two Muslim freinds, actually one of tham is helping me in Arabic.
Laaaa, wahuwa minween bizzabt, ramalla?
سالام, يىدياة نن قاباتا
;)
anta ashkenazi, Batsawwar.
-
There are NO moderate muslims. Islam is a monstrous religion. ANYONE who adheres to it is a monster. Wake up!!!!!!!
Do you think every Muslim read in the Quran all day ? That they actually know what their religion saying in a deep prespective ? And there are moderate Muslims, as there are Moderate people in any group/religion.
If there are 'moderate' muslims, Dexter why do we NEVER EVER see or hear them condemning the radical ones?
We do, but very quietly or not at all. Because as some Germans tried to condem Hitler and died, the moderate Muslims can be also exectuted.
By the way:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadi
-
Well, I have two Muslim friends. One is not obesrvant, his brother is. The observant muslim is the only non-Jew I have found, who worried about my keeping the Shabat (when I aimed to convert, and he believed I was already Jewish and had to keep Shabat). One Friday night he called me to his shop to ask a question, and he warned me " Don't touch my door, there's an automatic electric bell, you may violate Shabat".
This town is sorrounded by hills, it's my custom to go up the southern hill every month to see the New Moon for the first time. When it is Ramadan, I pass by his house and tell him I have seen the moon. Of course it's not valid according to Islamic rules. The New Moon must be seen by TWO Muslims, not by ONE Noahide. But he is too old to go up the hills.
I agree with you Srbin. It's not good to insult a religion which praises the ONE. No matter if some of them are hipocrytes and violate nearly all the Noahide Laws.
I read a book wtritten by an Argetinian Jewish writer, Marcos Aguinis, about the Spanish Jews. A historic novel. One Jew of the novel said " The Christians persecuted us, and when Muslims came here (Spain), we took refuge in them. Later Muslims leaders tried to force us to convert, and we took refuge in Christian areas. Now the Christians are for us again. No refuege is safe. So we'd better abandon all refuges and give in Judaism". If had been there , I would have replied that the only safe refuge is Hashem!!!!
Shema Yisrael, Hashem Elokeinu, Hashem Echad!
-
There are NO moderate muslims. Islam is a monstrous religion. ANYONE who adheres to it is a monster. Wake up!!!!!!!
Do you think every Muslim read in the Quran all day ? That they actually know what their religion saying in a deep prespective ? And there are moderate Muslims, as there are Moderate people in any group/religion.
If there are 'moderate' muslims, Dexter why do we NEVER EVER see or hear them condemning the radical ones?
Quite often you do Newman... especially when it comes to different sects of Islam.
A big percent of the time you see it In Australia.. because they have grown up in a descent society and condemn extremist muslims
-
בס''ד
Mohammed, the founder of Islam, also became a "moderate" when he signed a "peace treaty" with the tribe Quriesh. Mohammed promised Quriesh 10 years of "peace", which he called a "hudnah" (cessation of hostilities). Two years after signing the treaty, Mohammed and the Muslims staged a surprise attack on Quriesh and murdered or enslaved every man, woman and child in the tribe.
That is Islam.
Every Muslim is commanded to believe that all non-Muslims must be either physically exterminated or forcibly converted. That is "jihad" (holy war) and it is NOT optional in Islam. Anyone who does not hate all non-Muslims is NOT a Muslim. Anyone who does not seek world conquest is NOT a Muslim. Because if they do not hate and want to murder all non-Muslims, then they are going against the Nazi Koran and the Nazi Hadith.
There are no Muslim "moderates". ALL Muslims are Nazis who believe in a Nazi religion. But Muslims are also commanded to engage in "takiya" (lying to the non-Muslims the way Mohammed did in the Koran). Muslims who issue vague statements condemning all "terrorism" are liars. If you ask them to specifically condemn Hamas, Fatah, the PLO, Hezballah, that they will not do and they in fact all defend these Islamic Nazi mass murderers.
JTF IS AGAINST THE NAZI IDEOLOGY OF ISLAM AND THAT WILL NOT CHANGE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. ANYONE WHO HAS MUSLIM "FRIENDS" IS FOOLING HIMSELF. THE KORAN ITSELF FORBIDS MUSLIMS TO ACCEPT CHRISTIANS OR JEWS AS FRIENDS. JTF WILL NEVER COMPROMISE ON THIS ISSUE. IF SOMEONE ACCEPTS THE MONSTROUS DOCTRINE OF ISLAM OR ITS FOLLOWERS, THAT IS LIKING ACCEPTING NAZISM AND SAYING THAT THERE ARE "MODERATE" NAZIS.
-
שלום,
Chaim, Mohammad destroyed many tribes, one of them was Quriesh, Mohammad also destroyed Christian tribes and non-Muslim tribes as a way to expend his little empire. The Jews, according to the Tanach, as you know, destroyed 7 whole people, and to destroy any man/woman that is decent of them is one of the 613 commends.
Islam does not wish to destroy or convert all non-Muslim, unless they are idolaters (Christians considered to be idolaters but the Muslims are commended not to destroy them). If Islam wish to destroy/convert Non-Muslims how come he didn't destroyed or convert Mizrhi Jews and Christian who lived and lives in Muslim countries for 1300 years ?
There are moderate Muslims because not all Muslims worship Mohammad the same way, and there are many sections and many sections in Islam. Also, the "Nazis" we see in pictures etc' are mostly Nationalist and Secular Arab movement and parties. PLO is secular terror organizing, and most of Anti-Israel Arabs are secular Arabs.
Muslims that are against terror aren't liars mostly, because they can be executed and they have no interests to say something that may cause them death. Also, Muslims are allowed to have Jewish friends, there is no place in the Quran that says that it isn't allowed.
If they are really moderate, they are not Muslims.
Sure they are.
-
שלום,
Chaim, Mohammad destroyed many tribes, one of tham was Quriesh, Mohammad also destroyed Christian tribes and non-Muslim tribes as a way to expend his little empire. The Jews, acorrding to the Tanach, as you know, destroyed 7 whole people, and to destroy any man/woman that is decent of tham is one of the 613 commends.
Islam does not wish to destroy or convert all non-Muslim, unless they are idolaters (Christians considerd to be idolaters but the Muslims are commended not to destroy tham). If Islam wish to destroy/convert Non-Muslims how come he didn't destroyed or convert Mizrhi Jews and Christian who lived and lives in Muslim countries for 1300 years ?
There are moderate Muslims because not all Muslims warship Mohammad the same way, and there are many sections and many sections in Islam. Also, the "Nazis" we see in pictures etc' are mostly Nationalist and Seculer Arab movment and parties. PLO is seculer terror organizion, and most of Anti-Israel Arabs are seculer Arabs.
Muslims that are against terror aren't liars mostly, because they can be exectuted and they have no interests to say something that may cause tham death. Also, Muslims are alowed to have Jewish freinds, there is no place in the Quran that says that it isn't allowd.
If they are really moderate, they are not Muslims.
Sure they are.
Dexter think.
If someone was part of a religion whose adherents would kill them for speaking out..........why would they stay in that stupid, stinking religion?
If there are so many radicals that they can threaten 'moderates' that means 'moderates' are in a tiny minority.
But, as Chaim said, "There are no moderates".
-
It is very hard to get out of Islam when you are educated to it since you are young and since you can get killed or executed.
Umm..sorry but I don't understand your second sentece...
-
It is very hard to get out of Islam when you are educated to it since you are young and since you can get killed or executed.
Umm..sorry but I don't understand your second sentece...
I mean a minority are not a threat to a majority. The majority of Americans are not threatened by radical mormans because they are a minority.
If so-called 'moderates' are threatened by radicals, then the 'moderates must be a small MINORITY and the radicals a large MAJORITY. That's logic.
-
here are NO moderate muslims. Islam is a monstrous religion. ANYONE who adheres to it is a monster. Wake up!!!!!!!
I would have debated you on this one before the 2nd Lebanon War......but I am wise enough to know better now. Its in the book: Wage Jihad against anyone that oppeses the Sharia Law. Its a sickness and there is no cure.
-
It is very hard to get out of Islam when you are educated to it since you are young and since you can get killed or executed.
Umm..sorry but I don't understand your second sentece...
I mean a minority are not a threat to a majority. The majority of Americans are not threatened by radical mormans because they are a minority.
If so-called 'moderates' are threatened by radicals, then the 'moderates must be a small MINORITY and the radicals a large MAJORITY. That's logic.
Well I can't know how many moderate Muslims there are until the Arab countries will become democrate states.
And I don't say that the moderate Muslims are a majoraty, I just said that there are moderate Muslims and that I know some.
-
It is very hard to get out of Islam when you are educated to it since you are young and since you can get killed or executed.
Umm..sorry but I don't understand your second sentece...
I mean a minority are not a threat to a majority. The majority of Americans are not threatened by radical mormans because they are a minority.
If so-called 'moderates' are threatened by radicals, then the 'moderates must be a small MINORITY and the radicals a large MAJORITY. That's logic.
Well I can't know how many moderate Muslims there are until the Arab countries will become democrate states.
And I don't say that the moderate Muslims are a majoraty, I just said that there are moderate Muslims and that I know some.
Democracy is a violation of islamic law, so it can't and won't happen. I don't believe they stay in a religious movement they can't agree with. That's BS. Silence = consent.
If you remain a member of a country club that refuses to admit Jews, you are an anti-semite, too. If these people go to mosques that chant "kill the Jews", then they agree with it.
-
Also, Muslims are allowed to have Jewish friends, there is no place in the Quran that says that it isn't allowed.
Really, Dexter? Do you know the whole Koran well enough to say that?
Have you read the Koran at: 5:50-51 where it says:
"... O YOU WHO BELIEVE! DO NOT TAKE THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS FOR FRIENDS; THEY ARE FRIENDS OF EACH OTHER; AND WHOEVER AMONGST YOU TAKES THEM FOR A FRIEND, THEN SURELY HE IS ONE OF THEM; SURELY ALLAH DOES NOT GUIDE THE UNJUST PEOPLE. (Qu'ran 5:50-51)" ?
-
It is very hard to get out of Islam when you are educated to it since you are young and since you can get killed or executed.
Umm..sorry but I don't understand your second sentece...
I mean a minority are not a threat to a majority. The majority of Americans are not threatened by radical mormans because they are a minority.
If so-called 'moderates' are threatened by radicals, then the 'moderates must be a small MINORITY and the radicals a large MAJORITY. That's logic.
Well I can't know how many moderate Muslims there are until the Arab countries will become democrate states.
And I don't say that the moderate Muslims are a majoraty, I just said that there are moderate Muslims and that I know some.
Have you considered that what you are calling "Muslims" are really:
a) People who call themselves "Muslims but do not practice the Jihad that the Koran preaches and therefore are not really Muslims.
OR
b) Real Muslims practicing Takkiya on you.
OR
c) People who really do support terrorism though you just haven't asked the right questions. For instance, ask your friends who they would support in a battle to the death between Al Quaeda/Hamas/Hizbollah and the Jewish people.
Whom did your "friends" support in the recent war against Lebanon?
-
It is very hard to get out of Islam when you are educated to it since you are young and since you can get killed or executed.
Umm..sorry but I don't understand your second sentece...
I mean a minority are not a threat to a majority. The majority of Americans are not threatened by radical mormans because they are a minority.
If so-called 'moderates' are threatened by radicals, then the 'moderates must be a small MINORITY and the radicals a large MAJORITY. That's logic.
Well I can't know how many moderate Muslims there are until the Arab countries will become democrate states.
And I don't say that the moderate Muslims are a majoraty, I just said that there are moderate Muslims and that I know some.
Democracy is a violation of islamic law, so it can't and won't happen. I don't believe they stay in a religious movement they can't agree with. That's BS. Silence = consent.
If you remain a member of a country club that refuses to admit Jews, you are an anti-semite, too. If these people go to mosques that chant "kill the Jews", then they agree with it.
Democracy is also a violation of Jewish law, that is why Israel is partly secular. The fact that they stay in it is because they are educated with it, as you will have a slight chance to convice 15 years old kid in a Communist state, that was born and educated on Communism that Communism is wrong. Also, if a Muslim will try to get out of his religion he will suffer, as Hassidic people that become seculer and lost any conecction with their family and freinds as a result of that.
Muslims don't walk to the mosque, they pray at home or any other place, at least most of them. Very few Muslims hear the Imam's speach as a result of that. And on some places Quran is nice about Jews and on others is antisimetic, what makes it irrotional religion.
Lulab, this is a wrong translation (really). The real translation is:
O you who believe, do not take certain Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them. GOD does not guide the transgressors.
-
It is very hard to get out of Islam when you are educated to it since you are young and since you can get killed or executed.
Umm..sorry but I don't understand your second sentece...
I mean a minority are not a threat to a majority. The majority of Americans are not threatened by radical mormans because they are a minority.
If so-called 'moderates' are threatened by radicals, then the 'moderates must be a small MINORITY and the radicals a large MAJORITY. That's logic.
Well I can't know how many moderate Muslims there are until the Arab countries will become democrate states.
And I don't say that the moderate Muslims are a majoraty, I just said that there are moderate Muslims and that I know some.
Have you considered that what you are calling "Muslims" are really:
a) People who call themselves "Muslims but do not practice the Jihad that the Koran preaches and therefore are not really Muslims.
OR
b) Real Muslims practicing Takkiya on you.
OR
c) People who really do support terrorism though you just haven't asked the right questions. For instance, ask your friends who they would support in a battle to the death between Al Quaeda/Hamas/Hizbollah and the Jewish people.
Whom did your "friends" support in the recent war against Lebanon?
No, my friends are children of Muslims who have been in South Lebanon Army.
-
The fact that they stay in it is because they are educated with it, as you will have a slight chance to convice 15 years old kid in a Communist state, that was born and educated on Communism that Communism is wrong. Also, if a Muslim will try to get out of his religion he will suffer, as Hassidic people that become seculer and lost any conecction with their family and freinds as a result of that..
Communist countries were full of people opposed to communism. They may not have spoken out, but they didn't consider themselves communists either.
If someone tells you he's a muslim, then he considers himself one and thus agrees with islamic views (terror, jihad, killing Jews). If he opposes those things, he's not a muslim.
Muslims in the west can leave the religion when they see fit. They can move to another city and nobody would know they're background. Instead they stay in it because they agree with it. Nobody in the free west has to stay in ANYTHING they don't agree with.
-
בס''ד
Mohammed, the founder of Islam, also became a "moderate" when he signed a "peace treaty" with the tribe Quriesh. Mohammed promised Quriesh 10 years of "peace", which he called a "hudnah" (cessation of hostilities). Two years after signing the treaty, Mohammed and the Muslims staged a surprise attack on Quriesh and murdered or enslaved every man, woman and child in the tribe.
That is Islam.
Every Muslim is commanded to believe that all non-Muslims must be either physically exterminated or forcibly converted. That is "jihad" (holy war) and it is NOT optional in Islam. Anyone who does not hate all non-Muslims is NOT a Muslim. Anyone who does not seek world conquest is NOT a Muslim. Because if they do not hate and want to murder all non-Muslims, then they are going against the Nazi Koran and the Nazi Hadith.
There are no Muslim "moderates". ALL Muslims are Nazis who believe in a Nazi religion. But Muslims are also commanded to engage in "takiya" (lying to the non-Muslims the way Mohammed did in the Koran). Muslims who issue vague statements condemning all "terrorism" are liars. If you ask them to specifically condemn Hamas, Fatah, the PLO, Hezballah, that they will not do and they in fact all defend these Islamic Nazi mass murderers.
JTF IS AGAINST THE NAZI IDEOLOGY OF ISLAM AND THAT WILL NOT CHANGE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. ANYONE WHO HAS MUSLIM "FRIENDS" IS FOOLING HIMSELF. THE KORAN ITSELF FORBIDS MUSLIMS TO ACCEPT CHRISTIANS OR JEWS AS FRIENDS. JTF WILL NEVER COMPROMISE ON THIS ISSUE. IF SOMEONE ACCEPTS THE MONSTROUS DOCTRINE OF ISLAM OR ITS FOLLOWERS, THAT IS LIKING ACCEPTING NAZISM AND SAYING THAT THERE ARE "MODERATE" NAZIS.
Oh thank you so much for this!! There are times I am made to feel like my views of islam and muslims are extreme, even on this forum, but I know Im right and know that we HAVE to fight this cancer....I dont want to leave behind an islamic mess for my child to have to deal with when he is older....thank you again Chaim, though this view isnt popular with plenty of people, its a view that I share and Im glad not to be alone O0
-
The fact that they stay in it is because they are educated with it, as you will have a slight chance to convice 15 years old kid in a Communist state, that was born and educated on Communism that Communism is wrong. Also, if a Muslim will try to get out of his religion he will suffer, as Hassidic people that become seculer and lost any conecction with their family and freinds as a result of that..
Communist countries were full of people opposed to communism. They may not have spoken out, but they didn't consider themselves communists either.
If someone tells you he's a muslim, then he considers himself one and thus agrees with islamic views (terror, jihad, killing Jews). If he opposes those things, he's not a muslim.
Muslims in the west can leave the religion when they see fit. They can move to another city and nobody would know they're background. Instead they stay in it because they agree with it. Nobody in the free west has to stay in ANYTHING they don't agree with.
No one can know how many people were against Communism, this is BS assumption, and you also can't know who cinsidered himself as Communist and who didn't. Probably most people in Stalin-Lenin era considered thamselvs as Communist.
As I said, there are moderate Muslims and Muslims who view the Quran and it things in other prespective and way.
You can't say that if someone don't do one commend in Islam (acorrding to some sections' commentaries) than he isn't a Muslim. Most of the Jews don't do MOST of the things acorrding to the Orthodox Judaism, than they aren't Jewish or "Real Jews" ? That's nonsense.
Muslims in the west live in Ghettos (Closed neighborhood), as Jews in Europe lived and that is why they were still Jews ethnicll, probably geneticly and in the religiouse aspect. As you know, most Muslims that don't live in Ghettos are seculer and acting like weasterns.
-
Muslims in the west live in Ghettos (Closed neighborhood), as Jews in Europe lived and that is why they were still Jews ethnicll, probably geneticly and in the religiouse aspect. As you know, most Muslims that don't live in Ghettos are seculer and acting like weasterns.
Dexter, that's rubbish.
The Jews were FORCED to live in ghettos.
Who's forcing the muslims to live in ghettos????
Muslims have full rights in ALL western countries. If they live in a closed community it is by their own choice.
-
Please don't forbid to insult Muzzies, Koranimals or Sandapes.
Yes I agree they are human beeings, but evil. They want to destroy our western civilisation, which is the only civilisation on this planet. When they will have success with their evil plan, our countries will turn into a desert. I am afraid of this. In my country were the evil Nazis, which put nearly whole Europe in wreckage and killed millions of rightious people including 6 million Jews. After that came the Communists continued the satanic work of the Nazis in some parts. They destroyed the believe in G-d, the free economy and civil society. Now are coming the next evil creatures from hell and want to give Europe the rest. We have every right to insult them.
This insults give us strenght for the will to victory!
-
The fact that they stay in it is because they are educated with it, as you will have a slight chance to convice 15 years old kid in a Communist state, that was born and educated on Communism that Communism is wrong. Also, if a Muslim will try to get out of his religion he will suffer, as Hassidic people that become seculer and lost any conecction with their family and freinds as a result of that..
Communist countries were full of people opposed to communism. They may not have spoken out, but they didn't consider themselves communists either.
If someone tells you he's a muslim, then he considers himself one and thus agrees with islamic views (terror, jihad, killing Jews). If he opposes those things, he's not a muslim.
Muslims in the west can leave the religion when they see fit. They can move to another city and nobody would know they're background. Instead they stay in it because they agree with it. Nobody in the free west has to stay in ANYTHING they don't agree with.
No one can know how many people were against Communism, this is BS assumption, and you also can't know who cinsidered himself as Communist and who didn't. Probably most people in Stalin-Lenin era considered thamselvs as Communist.
As I said, there are moderate Muslims and Muslims who view the Quran and it things in other prespective and way.
You can't say that if someone don't do one commend in Islam (acorrding to some sections' commentaries) than he isn't a Muslim. Most of the Jews don't do MOST of the things acorrding to the Orthodox Judaism, than they aren't Jewish or "Real Jews" ? That's nonsense.
Muslims in the west live in Ghettos (Closed neighborhood), as Jews in Europe lived and that is why they were still Jews ethnicll, probably geneticly and in the religiouse aspect. As you know, most Muslims that don't live in Ghettos are seculer and acting like weasterns.
There are a lot of different muslime-groups. But no Sunni or Schia muslime thinks, that these groups like Ahmaddiya Muslime Yamaat, Alevi, Alavi or even Sufi-movements are real muslimes. They call themselves in some cases muslimes, but I don't know if this is right.
That Muslimes, which don't live in so called Ghettos have western views is not generally right. The most fanatic muslimes in Germany, like the Muslim-Market Brothers, Pierre Abu Hamza Vogel, Ibrahim Abu Nagi or even Abu Bakr Rieger don't live in Ghettos. They are all well educated and instead of this facts very evil people.
Look for yourself:
http://www.muslim-markt.de/
http://diewahrereligion de
http://www.abubakrrieger.de/page.cgi?key=11 [In English]
-
בס''ד
Mohammed, the founder of Islam, also became a "moderate" when he signed a "peace treaty" with the tribe Quriesh. Mohammed promised Quriesh 10 years of "peace", which he called a "hudnah" (cessation of hostilities). Two years after signing the treaty, Mohammed and the Muslims staged a surprise attack on Quriesh and murdered or enslaved every man, woman and child in the tribe.
That is Islam.
Every Muslim is commanded to believe that all non-Muslims must be either physically exterminated or forcibly converted. That is "jihad" (holy war) and it is NOT optional in Islam. Anyone who does not hate all non-Muslims is NOT a Muslim. Anyone who does not seek world conquest is NOT a Muslim. Because if they do not hate and want to murder all non-Muslims, then they are going against the Nazi Koran and the Nazi Hadith.
There are no Muslim "moderates". ALL Muslims are Nazis who believe in a Nazi religion. But Muslims are also commanded to engage in "takiya" (lying to the non-Muslims the way Mohammed did in the Koran). Muslims who issue vague statements condemning all "terrorism" are liars. If you ask them to specifically condemn Hamas, Fatah, the PLO, Hezballah, that they will not do and they in fact all defend these Islamic Nazi mass murderers.
JTF IS AGAINST THE NAZI IDEOLOGY OF ISLAM AND THAT WILL NOT CHANGE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. ANYONE WHO HAS MUSLIM "FRIENDS" IS FOOLING HIMSELF. THE KORAN ITSELF FORBIDS MUSLIMS TO ACCEPT CHRISTIANS OR JEWS AS FRIENDS. JTF WILL NEVER COMPROMISE ON THIS ISSUE. IF SOMEONE ACCEPTS THE MONSTROUS DOCTRINE OF ISLAM OR ITS FOLLOWERS, THAT IS LIKING ACCEPTING NAZISM AND SAYING THAT THERE ARE "MODERATE" NAZIS.
Oh thank you so much for this!! There are times I am made to feel like my views of islam and muslims are extreme, even on this forum, but I know Im right and know that we HAVE to fight this cancer....I dont want to leave behind an islamic mess for my child to have to deal with when he is older....thank you again Chaim, though this view isnt popular with plenty of people, its a view that I share and Im glad not to be alone O0
בס''ד
Kelly, you are NOT alone. If you see our videos or our articles on our main page, you will realize that your views are supported by this movement even if they are some members who do not agree with our position. But this has always been our position and I have been speaking like this since I was teenage follower of HaRav Meir Kahane zt''l. On this issue, we will not change or compromise no matter what.
-
בס''ד
Mohammed, the founder of Islam, also became a "moderate" when he signed a "peace treaty" with the tribe Quriesh. Mohammed promised Quriesh 10 years of "peace", which he called a "hudnah" (cessation of hostilities). Two years after signing the treaty, Mohammed and the Muslims staged a surprise attack on Quriesh and murdered or enslaved every man, woman and child in the tribe.
That is Islam.
Every Muslim is commanded to believe that all non-Muslims must be either physically exterminated or forcibly converted. That is "jihad" (holy war) and it is NOT optional in Islam. Anyone who does not hate all non-Muslims is NOT a Muslim. Anyone who does not seek world conquest is NOT a Muslim. Because if they do not hate and want to murder all non-Muslims, then they are going against the Nazi Koran and the Nazi Hadith.
There are no Muslim "moderates". ALL Muslims are Nazis who believe in a Nazi religion. But Muslims are also commanded to engage in "takiya" (lying to the non-Muslims the way Mohammed did in the Koran). Muslims who issue vague statements condemning all "terrorism" are liars. If you ask them to specifically condemn Hamas, Fatah, the PLO, Hezballah, that they will not do and they in fact all defend these Islamic Nazi mass murderers.
JTF IS AGAINST THE NAZI IDEOLOGY OF ISLAM AND THAT WILL NOT CHANGE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. ANYONE WHO HAS MUSLIM "FRIENDS" IS FOOLING HIMSELF. THE KORAN ITSELF FORBIDS MUSLIMS TO ACCEPT CHRISTIANS OR JEWS AS FRIENDS. JTF WILL NEVER COMPROMISE ON THIS ISSUE. IF SOMEONE ACCEPTS THE MONSTROUS DOCTRINE OF ISLAM OR ITS FOLLOWERS, THAT IS LIKING ACCEPTING NAZISM AND SAYING THAT THERE ARE "MODERATE" NAZIS.
Oh thank you so much for this!! There are times I am made to feel like my views of islam and muslims are extreme, even on this forum, but I know Im right and know that we HAVE to fight this cancer....I dont want to leave behind an islamic mess for my child to have to deal with when he is older....thank you again Chaim, though this view isnt popular with plenty of people, its a view that I share and Im glad not to be alone O0
בס''ד
Kelly, you are NOT alone. If you see our videos or our articles on our main page, you will realize that your views are supported by this movement even if they are some members who do not agree with our position. But this has always been our position and I have been speaking like this since I was teenage follower of HaRav Meir Kahane zt''l. On this issue, we will not change or compromise no matter what.
We are definitely together.
:)
-
בס''ד
Newman, Dexter will drive you crazy with his arguing. You ain't seen nothing yet. Look at how he compares Jews to Muslims. He compares secular Muslims (Yaser Arafat, Saddam Hussein, Hafez al Assad, Abdul Nasser, Moammar Khadafi are a few examples of the wonderful secular Muslims) to secular Jews. And he compares religious Muslims to religious Jews! Try and explain to him that his comparison is obscene and grotesque. You'll be arguing with him day and night for the rest of the year, and it won't do any good.
-
Please don't forbid to insult Muzzies, Koranimals or Sandapes.
Yes I agree they are human beeings, but evil. They want to destroy our western civilisation, which is the only civilisation on this planet. When they will have success with their evil plan, our countries will turn into a desert. I am afraid of this. In my country were the evil Nazis, which put nearly whole Europe in wreckage and killed millions of rightious people including 6 million Jews. After that came the Communists continued the satanic work of the Nazis in some parts. They destroyed the believe in G-d, the free economy and civil society. Now are coming the next evil creatures from hell and want to give Europe the rest. We have every right to insult them.
This insults give us strenght for the will to victory!
As I said earlier, Islam is the biggest religion in this world, and there are many supporters. If we insult them people talk about JTF as a bad movement, but if we instead focuse on justifying ourselves it would be better.
-
בס''ד
Newman, Dexter will drive you crazy with his arguing. You ain't seen nothing yet. Look at how he compares Jews to Muslims. He compares secular Muslims (Yaser Arafat, Saddam Hussein, Hafez al Assad, Abdul Nasser, Moammar Khadafi are a few examples of the wonderful secular Muslims) to secular Jews. And he compares religious Muslims to religious Jews! Try and explain to him that his comparison is obscene and grotesque. You'll be arguing with him day and night for the rest of the year, and it won't do any good.
He's young.
The upside is he'll grow out of it.
Most sensible 35 year olds you meet believed in absolute rubbish as teenagers. :)
-
Please don't forbid to insult Muzzies, Koranimals or Sandapes.
Yes I agree they are human beeings, but evil. They want to destroy our western civilisation, which is the only civilisation on this planet. When they will have success with their evil plan, our countries will turn into a desert. I am afraid of this. In my country were the evil Nazis, which put nearly whole Europe in wreckage and killed millions of rightious people including 6 million Jews. After that came the Communists continued the satanic work of the Nazis in some parts. They destroyed the believe in G-d, the free economy and civil society. Now are coming the next evil creatures from hell and want to give Europe the rest. We have every right to insult them.
This insults give us strenght for the will to victory!
As I said earlier, Islam is the biggest religion in this world, and there are many supporters. If we insult them people talk about JTF as a bad movement, but if we instead focuse on justifying ourselves it would be better.
You are displaying the same stupid "don't upset the muslims" mentallity as the Europeans. They don't insult muslims at any price and look what's happening to them!
Muslims are insulted by anything and everything short of total submission!
I can't believe you havn't worked that out by now.
-
Note: Don't get this message wrong.
Listen up dear JTFer's.
I got to say that we are getting to far with insulting muslims in PUBLIC. If a muslims smells like we saw one thread about it, you don't need to show it here. Hold it for yourself. It gives us just bad reputation. After all islam is the biggest relgion in the world right now, and they have many supporters. JTF isn't trying to insult everyone right? Just nazis, terrorists and those crappies. I know that many of you us has muslim friends, and the matter of fact, me too. He is not a terrorist or any kind of an "evil" muslim. Just a human as we. And about my friends jews. All muslims don't hate jews right? (Don't know that one, explain someone.) There was just a nazicroat that made a video about JTF in a negative way (can't remember where to find the video), and there are people out there that listens too him because everything seems so logical into their eyes. It's just because they maybe have a muslim friend, and the thoughts in those peoples heads are: JTF is bad, my best friend is a muslim and they hate all muslims.
Or in some other ways. So... is it really neccassery to share thoughts in public?. It's just my opinion about this. After all, the majority of human kind believes in propaganda (not JTF :D).
JTFer's, what about a change?
Here is my problem with this....who is supposed to sort "good" from "bad"? As i said, my friend (she is an ex muslim) said her father was lovely to non muslims in public, in fact well liked and respected by non muslims, even held up by the non muslims in their community as an example of what a "real muslim" was.....behind closed doors with his muslim friends and in the mosque (he was a leader in the islamic community in the city they lived in...here in the US) he said vile and VIOLENT things against non muslims and professed his disdain for the US , even though in front of non muslims in public he appeared patriotic. When a muslim is caught here, such as the case of the young male muslims who were caught planning to murder servicemen at Fort Dix, what is the FIRST thing that their NON MUSLIM friends said...."oh my we are shocked, they were normal, just like us, they NEVER said anything extreme, were just normal guys like we were, they were our friends"...this scenario is played again and again when muslims are caught in western countries.
Can we afford not to be suspicious, careful, wary....I say we cant.
The problem with the "insult" thing, is this, it is NOT ILLEGAL to insult anyone in western countries, however, muslims are working towards fixing this issue, their goal is to make it illegal to insult "religion"...as they tried to do in the UN after the mohammad cartoons.....and make no mistake by "religion" they mean islam. Because they did not succeed doenst mean that they are done with this issue, they will keep trying until they do succeed, I have to wonder if they manage to pass this "insult" law including all religions....if islam will be banned because their book insults both Christians and Jews ;) that would be poetic justice indeed.
-
בס''ד
Newman, Dexter will drive you crazy with his arguing. You ain't seen nothing yet. Look at how he compares Jews to Muslims. He compares secular Muslims (Yaser Arafat, Saddam Hussein, Hafez al Assad, Abdul Nasser, Moammar Khadafi are a few examples of the wonderful secular Muslims) to secular Jews. And he compares religious Muslims to religious Jews! Try and explain to him that his comparison is obscene and grotesque. You'll be arguing with him day and night for the rest of the year, and it won't do any good.
He's young.
The upside is he'll grow out of it.
Most sensible 35 year olds you meet believed in absolute rubbish as teenagers. :)
Plus, I may be wrong but, I think he likes to play devil's advocate. :)
-
Please don't forbid to insult Muzzies, Koranimals or Sandapes.
Yes I agree they are human beeings, but evil. They want to destroy our western civilisation, which is the only civilisation on this planet. When they will have success with their evil plan, our countries will turn into a desert. I am afraid of this. In my country were the evil Nazis, which put nearly whole Europe in wreckage and killed millions of rightious people including 6 million Jews. After that came the Communists continued the satanic work of the Nazis in some parts. They destroyed the believe in G-d, the free economy and civil society. Now are coming the next evil creatures from hell and want to give Europe the rest. We have every right to insult them.
This insults give us strenght for the will to victory!
As I said earlier, Islam is the biggest religion in this world, and there are many supporters. If we insult them people talk about JTF as a bad movement, but if we instead focuse on justifying ourselves it would be better.
Muslims view JTF as a bad movement anyhow.....and islam is NOT the "biggest religion" in the world. There are over 6 billion people on earth, only 1 billion (by their estimates...and they have been caught in the US inflating their numbers) are muslims. So if the nazis could have grown to a billion in membership, then by your reasoning we would have had to be careful not to insult them so they wouldnt think we are "bad". Personally I dont give a rats arse about what any muslim thinks of me, obviously the numbers in the world are growing of people who feel the same...we are TIRED of their whining, false accusations of 'islamophobia' and ranting about 'tiny minority of extremists', I DONT CARE if they are insulted....muslims want to keep bombing crap, killing, raping and terrorizing the planet....guess what WE GET TO INSULT THEM, they can just suck it up.
Take a look at europe....appeasement doenst work. Do you think if you appease them they will kill you last?
-
Wherever there is a musslim majority,
you get an almost totally devasted landscape.
whatever musslim "country" you can quote,
there are these same cannibalistic zombies
in a quest on non-musslim's beheadings.
Waow, that's appealling !!!
:D :D :D
-
Please don't forbid to insult Muzzies, Koranimals or Sandapes.
Yes I agree they are human beeings, but evil. They want to destroy our western civilisation, which is the only civilisation on this planet. When they will have success with their evil plan, our countries will turn into a desert. I am afraid of this. In my country were the evil Nazis, which put nearly whole Europe in wreckage and killed millions of rightious people including 6 million Jews. After that came the Communists continued the satanic work of the Nazis in some parts. They destroyed the believe in G-d, the free economy and civil society. Now are coming the next evil creatures from hell and want to give Europe the rest. We have every right to insult them.
This insults give us strenght for the will to victory!
As I said earlier, Islam is the biggest religion in this world, and there are many supporters. If we insult them people talk about JTF as a bad movement, but if we instead focuse on justifying ourselves it would be better.
Muslims view JTF as a bad movement anyhow.....and islam is NOT the "biggest religion" in the world. There are over 6 billion people on earth, only 1 billion (by their estimates...and they have been caught in the US inflating their numbers) are muslims. So if the nazis could have grown to a billion in membership, then by your reasoning we would have had to be careful not to insult them so they wouldnt think we are "bad". Personally I dont give a rats arse about what any muslim thinks of me, obviously the numbers in the world are growing of people who feel the same...we are TIRED of their whining, false accusations of 'islamophobia' and ranting about 'tiny minority of extremists', I DONT CARE if they are insulted....muslims want to keep bombing crap, killing, raping and terrorizing the planet....guess what WE GET TO INSULT THEM, they can just suck it up.
Take a look at europe....appeasement doenst work. Do you think if you appease them they will kill you last?
Actually, they might. But they will still KILL you. That is the point.
-
As Winston Churchill said........ "Appeasers all think the crocodile will eat them last".
-
Please don't forbid to insult Muzzies, Koranimals or Sandapes.
Yes I agree they are human beeings, but evil. They want to destroy our western civilisation, which is the only civilisation on this planet. When they will have success with their evil plan, our countries will turn into a desert. I am afraid of this. In my country were the evil Nazis, which put nearly whole Europe in wreckage and killed millions of rightious people including 6 million Jews. After that came the Communists continued the satanic work of the Nazis in some parts. They destroyed the believe in G-d, the free economy and civil society. Now are coming the next evil creatures from hell and want to give Europe the rest. We have every right to insult them.
This insults give us strenght for the will to victory!
As I said earlier, Islam is the biggest religion in this world, and there are many supporters. If we insult them people talk about JTF as a bad movement, but if we instead focuse on justifying ourselves it would be better.
Muslims view JTF as a bad movement anyhow.....and islam is NOT the "biggest religion" in the world. There are over 6 billion people on earth, only 1 billion (by their estimates...and they have been caught in the US inflating their numbers) are muslims. So if the nazis could have grown to a billion in membership, then by your reasoning we would have had to be careful not to insult them so they wouldnt think we are "bad". Personally I dont give a rats arse about what any muslim thinks of me, obviously the numbers in the world are growing of people who feel the same...we are TIRED of their whining, false accusations of 'islamophobia' and ranting about 'tiny minority of extremists', I DONT CARE if they are insulted....muslims want to keep bombing crap, killing, raping and terrorizing the planet....guess what WE GET TO INSULT THEM, they can just suck it up.
Take a look at europe....appeasement doenst work. Do you think if you appease them they will kill you last?
Islamophobie is one of the worst words I know. It means, that we are mentally ill and belong to a mental asylum, like the communists told their opposition, because we don't like Islam.
But the Muslimes are the real menatlly ill persons.
They think they are born for ruling the world. But they have no qualifications for it. They live from social care, oil-money and foreign aid. They have never created anything. Even the great canons for the conquest of Konstantinopel made a perfidious Christ for them.
There is an intresting website about intermarried Christians with Muslimes. Hundreds of relations are failed, because the Muslime man don't want to work, was very lazy, earned no money for the family, but want to be the Pasha. Everytime the woman said to him, he should work he beated her to demonstrate, that he is the boss, because Islam said so. This is a pattern! They are mentally ill and have totally lost their sense of reality.
Look here. Mord has shown me this trick with babelfish. You can read a German page in English.
http://de.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.1001geschichte.de%2Ftext%2FB%25FCcher%2520Auswahl1.asp&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=%C3%9Cbersetzen (http://de.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.1001geschichte.de%2Ftext%2FB%25FCcher%2520Auswahl1.asp&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=%C3%9Cbersetzen)
-
muslims are mentally retarded, not ill. It makes the people in insane asylums look bad. 8;)
-
Muslims in the west live in Ghettos (Closed neighborhood), as Jews in Europe lived and that is why they were still Jews ethnicll, probably geneticly and in the religiouse aspect. As you know, most Muslims that don't live in Ghettos are seculer and acting like weasterns.
Dexter, that's rubbish.
The Jews were FORCED to live in ghettos.
Who's forcing the muslims to live in ghettos????
Muslims have full rights in ALL western countries. If they live in a closed community it is by their own choice.
I didn't said they are forced to live in ghettos ? They just do live in Ghettos.
Chaim Ben Pesach,
I never compared Jews to Muslims, I just said, and that is a fact, that most Israel haters that also murderd Jews were seculer Muslims (and this fact does not suppose to make you counclude Islam isn't voilance). Also, the fact that I compared people that come out of Islam and from Judaism in the social aspect is completly justifide. And nothing is wrong in arguing, it's a healthy and a fun thing to do as long as you don't change facts. And I, didn't.
HiWarp,
mm, nope.
-
Muslims do live in ghettos in the west. Here in England, all the muslims especially the asians live in small communities that are relatively deprived.
Its not in any way comparable to the ghettos the Nazis forced the Jews into but they are still defined as ghettos.
-
Muslims do live in ghettos in the west. Here in England, all the muslims especially the asians live in small communities that are relatively deprived.
Its not in any way comparable to the ghettos the Nazis forced the Jews into but they are still defined as ghettos.
You mean like the schvartza ghettos in America (AKA "da hood", UMM HMM!).
Yes, that is what I meant either.
-
Also, Muslims are allowed to have Jewish friends, there is no place in the Quran that says that it isn't allowed.
Really, Dexter? Do you know the whole Koran well enough to say that?
Have you read the Koran at: 5:50-51 where it says:
"... O YOU WHO BELIEVE! DO NOT TAKE THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS FOR FRIENDS; THEY ARE FRIENDS OF EACH OTHER; AND WHOEVER AMONGST YOU TAKES THEM FOR A FRIEND, THEN SURELY HE IS ONE OF THEM; SURELY ALLAH DOES NOT GUIDE THE UNJUST PEOPLE. (Qu'ran 5:50-51)" ?
Before anybody can understand the verse under discussion it is important to understand the context of this Surah and the situation under which this verse was revealed.
In the last stages of prophetic mission in Medinah, Muslims had emerged as a dominant power and had set up a society of their own. At the same time, the polytheists of Makkah as well as Jews and Christians had also established setups and in case of an armed conflict, it seemed that any of them could have emerged as victorious. In such an environment the hypocrites amongst Muslims maintained ties with Jews and Christians and supported them in secret. Their support was in order to safeguard their interests with whoever the victorious party would be. In addition, the hypocrites obviously had not accepted Islam from within their hearts and their conversion to Islam had not affected their ties with Muslims' opponents.
It is in this context that Quran revealed the following verses specifically admonishing these hypocrites amongst Muslims:
"O believers, do not take the Jews and the Christians as your friends and protectors, they are friends of each other. And whoever makes them a friend then he is from amongst them. Verily God does not guide the unjust people. And you will see that those (Muslims) in whose hearts is a disease run towards them saying 'We fear that a calamity may befall us.' So God will soon bring victory or a decision from Him, causing them regret on account of the thoughts they harbored in their hearts." (Quran 5:51-52)
The explanation above should depict the correct meaning of the verses under discussion.
In addition to the general context, it should also be noted that Quran has used the words 'the Jews' and 'the Christians' making it very clear that it is a specific group of Jews and Christians and this verse is not a general prescription. The attitude of these people has been explained further in the following verses for instance:
"O you who believe! do not take for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery and a joke, from among those who were given the Book before you and the unbelievers; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah if you are believers. And when you call to prayer they make it a mockery and a joke; this is because they are a people who do not understand." (Quran 5:57-58)
As it can be clearly seen, the Jews and Christians mentioned above are those 'who take your religion for a mockery and a joke.'
In view of the above explanation, I believe these verses should not be taken to be a general directive of the relationship with Jews and Christians. Instead the relationship with the people of other faiths should only be avoided when it becomes harmful for Muslims, and otherwise they should feel free to enjoy a comfortable relationship with Jews and Christians.
This is one of the interpretations
-------------------------------
Btw you're saying that muslims believe they shouldn't be friends with Jews.
And how about JTF and You Chaim ben pesach, would you ever befriend a muslim? Or take them as protectors? No i'm sure you wouldn't because you believe them to be the enemy. And you also believe in the commandment that you should Kill them before they Kill you.
-
Sarah, are you really a Muslim. How you feel about so many posts against Islam in this forum? Why do you still come here? Are you not affected by so many insults?
-
Mohammed, the founder of Islam, also became a "moderate" when he signed a "peace treaty" with the tribe Quriesh. Mohammed promised Quriesh 10 years of "peace", which he called a "hudnah" (cessation of hostilities). Two years after signing the treaty, Mohammed and the Muslims staged a surprise attack on Quriesh and murdered or enslaved every man, woman and child in the tribe.
What attack was this? You are talking about the treaty of Hudaybiyyah..............
In 628 AD, a group of 1,400 Muslims marched towards Mecca, in an attempt to perform the pilgrimage. The group was prepared with animals of sacrifice, as they hoped that the Quraish would honour the Arabian custom of allowing unarmed pilgrims to enter the city. The Quraish, however, intercepted the Muslim party well outside Mecca. By this time all of Arabia was aware of the military strength of the Muslims. Muhammad, the leader of the Muslims, wanted to avoid bloodshed in or near the holiest city of Islam. He said: (Bukhari B3V50H891)
We have not come to fight anyone, but to perform the 'Umra. No doubt, the war has weakened Quraish and they have suffered great losses, so if they wish, I will conclude a truce with them, during which they should refrain from interfering between me and the people, and if I have victory over those infidels, Quraish will have the option to embrace Islam as the other people do, if they wish; they will at least get strong enough to fight. But if they do not accept the truce, by Allah in Whose Hands my life is, I will fight with them defending my Cause till I get killed, but (I am sure) Allah will definitely make His Cause victorious.
The two parties decided to resolve the matter through diplomacy, rather than warfare. Hence the Quranic reference to the Sakina or Spirit of Peace. "He it is Who sent down the sakina into the hearts of the believers that they might add faith unto their faith" (48:4).
A treaty was drawn up.
The basic outline of the treaty was as follows:
"In the name of God. These are the conditions of Peace between Muhammad (SAW), son of Abdullah and Suhayl ibn Amr the envoy of Mecca. There will be no fighting for ten years. Anyone who wishes to join Muhammad (SAW) and to enter into any agreement with him is free to do so. Anyone who wishes to join the Quraish and to enter into any agreement with them is free to do so. A young man, or one whose father is alive, if he goes to Muhammad without permission from his father or guardian, will be returned to his father or guardian. But if anyone goes to the Quraish, he will not be returned. This year Muhammad (SAW) will go back without entering Mecca. But next year he and his followers can enter Mecca, spend three days, perform the circuit. During these three days the Quraish will withdraw to the surrounding hills. When Muhammad and his followers enter into Mecca, they will be unarmed except for sheathed swords which wayfarers in Arabia always have with them." (Bukhari)
The treaty was quite controversial for many reasons. Originally the treaty referred to Muhammad as the Messenger of God which was unacceptable to the Quraish ambassador Suhayl ibn Amr. Muhammad ordered Ali to strike it out, but Ali refused, after which Muhammad himself rubbed the words. (Sahih Bukhari 3:49:62, Sahih Muslim 19:4404). An objection was made by the muslims over one clause of the treaty that said that any member of Makkah entering Medina is eligible to be returned back to Makkah (if they want), while any muslim entering Makkah is not eligible to be returned to the Muslims even if Muhammad wanted. ((Sahih Bukhari 3:50:874)
After the signing of the treaty, there was still great fury amongst the Muslim side for they did not like the stipulations of the treaty. Muhammad, binding onto the Islamic ethic "Fulfill every promise" ordered that Muslims do exactly as the treaty says. A few muslims, especially Umar bin Khattab strongly objected to the treaty, and even went on as far as regarding Muhammad's decision to be wrong. Many muslims thereafter objected, when Muhammad told them (thrice) to perform their rites there and then. Later, Muhammad's wife Umm-Salama came and convinced Muhammad to perform at least his share of the rites. (Sahih Bukhari 3:50:891)
In 629 AD, the Muslims made The first pilgrimage. Two years later, in 630 AD, a skirmish between the Bedouin tribe of Khuza'a and the Banu Bakr tribe which was an ally of the Quraysh occurred; this was a breach of the treaty as one of the clauses of the treaty was 'An attack on an ally of the party, will be considered an attack on the party itself'. Muhammad offered the Quraish three alternatives:
1.Dissolve their alliance with the Banu Bakr.
2.Compensate by paying blood money.
3.State that the treaty stood dissolved.
The Quraish chose the third alternative. Thus, Muhammad was left with 'no alternative' but to march on Mecca. He, along with 10000 men, marched to Mecca where he gave orders that no old or sick man, children, men who dropped their arms, men who stayed in their homes, or people who stayed in Abu Sufyan's home were not to be harmed and no trees were to be cut. Thus, there was no bloodshed in the conquest.
Islam spread widely and quickly during the two years that the treaty was in effect. While Muhammad had one thousand four hundred followers when he signed the treaty in Hudaybiyya, he had well over ten thousand for his conquest of Mecca two years later
-
Sarah, what source did you use? If the koran was specifically addressing hypocrite muslims, it would have said so.
-
Sarah, are you really a Muslim. How you feel about so many posts against Islam in this forum? Why do you still come here? Are you not affected by so many insults?
She is not a Muslim. She became a Noahide but her father is an Arab Muslim Nazi and her mother is a British convert to Islam. Sarah is conflicted and confused but real Muslims would want to kill her for being an infidel.
Sarah is NOT a Muslim because she doesn't want to kill us.
I don't think calling her father a Nazi is OK.
Sarah..?
-
Sarah, what source did you use? If the koran was specifically addressing hypocrite muslims, it would have said so.
Sarah is a victim of taqqiya. These claims about misinterpretation are false. Islamic clerics ALL misinterpret the koran if this were to be true.
-
She is not a Muslim. She became a Noahide but her father is an Arab Muslim Nazi and her mother is a British convert to Islam.
How tragic :( My condolances, I hope that one day she leaves islam.
-
All this on the day that Pat Roberson endorses Rudy Giuliani for the Republican primaries.
This world is going mad.
-
Also, Muslims are allowed to have Jewish friends, there is no place in the Quran that says that it isn't allowed.
Really, Dexter? Do you know the whole Koran well enough to say that?
Have you read the Koran at: 5:50-51 where it says:
"... O YOU WHO BELIEVE! DO NOT TAKE THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS FOR FRIENDS; THEY ARE FRIENDS OF EACH OTHER; AND WHOEVER AMONGST YOU TAKES THEM FOR A FRIEND, THEN SURELY HE IS ONE OF THEM; SURELY ALLAH DOES NOT GUIDE THE UNJUST PEOPLE. (Qu'ran 5:50-51)" ?
Before anybody can understand the verse under discussion it is important to understand the context of this Surah and the situation under which this verse was revealed.
In the last stages of prophetic mission in Medinah, Muslims had emerged as a dominant power and had set up a society of their own. At the same time, the polytheists of Makkah as well as Jews and Christians had also established setups and in case of an armed conflict, it seemed that any of them could have emerged as victorious. In such an environment the hypocrites amongst Muslims maintained ties with Jews and Christians and supported them in secret. Their support was in order to safeguard their interests with whoever the victorious party would be. In addition, the hypocrites obviously had not accepted Islam from within their hearts and their conversion to Islam had not affected their ties with Muslims' opponents.
It is in this context that Quran revealed the following verses specifically admonishing these hypocrites amongst Muslims:
"O believers, do not take the Jews and the Christians as your friends and protectors, they are friends of each other. And whoever makes them a friend then he is from amongst them. Verily G-d does not guide the unjust people. And you will see that those (Muslims) in whose hearts is a disease run towards them saying 'We fear that a calamity may befall us.' So G-d will soon bring victory or a decision from Him, causing them regret on account of the thoughts they harbored in their hearts." (Quran 5:51-52)
The explanation above should depict the correct meaning of the verses under discussion.
In addition to the general context, it should also be noted that Quran has used the words 'the Jews' and 'the Christians' making it very clear that it is a specific group of Jews and Christians and this verse is not a general prescription. The attitude of these people has been explained further in the following verses for instance:
"O you who believe! do not take for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery and a joke, from among those who were given the Book before you and the unbelievers; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah if you are believers. And when you call to prayer they make it a mockery and a joke; this is because they are a people who do not understand." (Quran 5:57-58)
As it can be clearly seen, the Jews and Christians mentioned above are those 'who take your religion for a mockery and a joke.'
In view of the above explanation, I believe these verses should not be taken to be a general directive of the relationship with Jews and Christians. Instead the relationship with the people of other faiths should only be avoided when it becomes harmful for Muslims, and otherwise they should feel free to enjoy a comfortable relationship with Jews and Christians.
This is one of the interpretations
-------------------------------
Btw you're saying that muslims believe they shouldn't be friends with Jews.
And how about JTF and You Chaim ben pesach, would you ever befriend a muslim? Or take them as protectors? No i'm sure you wouldn't because you believe them to be the enemy. And you also believe in the commandment that you should Kill them before they Kill you.
This looks like a taquiya explanation of this verse if I ever saw one. The verse clearly says "BELIEVERS, do not take the Jews as friends etc." It does not admonish the hypocrites. The word "hypocryte is not even used there at all.
If find it interesting that Dexter added in the word "certain" Jews. Does that word appear in the Arabic? If not, why is it not in your translation? If so, which Jews are they referring to.
Of course JTF and Chaim ben Pesach will not befriend a Nazi ideology that has called for the destruction of his people!
Why would we do such an insane thing?
Sarah, you sound like every other Muslim out there trying to whitewash the hatred that is so obvious in their Koran. I am not impressed by this explanation or this tactic in the least bit.
-
Sarah is NOT a Muslim because she doesn't want to kill us.
Yes but she defends the book which does.
-
Sarah is NOT a Muslim because she doesn't want to kill us.
Yes but she defends the book which does.
I fear we may have lost her to that arab cult.
I'm just beside myself and really heartbroken. :'(
May G_d watch over dear Sarah all of her days.
-
lubab, actually I took the translation from a Quran site, I didn't added a thing.
-
If they are really moderate, they are not Muslims.
Exactly what I waned to post, Yacov O0
One can be muslim or not.
Some of them may look like "moderate" or "nonpracticing islam" but as far as I know, they will very well remember what they believe when its needed, even if he is a nice person.
Otherwise he is not muslim at all.
Muslims from Bosnia for example doesent look like muslims at all, woman wear make up, man drink alcohol.
When when it comes to confrontation with "nonbelievers" they are muslims like any other muslims on planet.
I personally hung, go to school, work, with lots of muslims from Balkan (thats where I live) still, wouldn't go so far to call those my friends.
They usually are very nice while they are in minority.
They all have same goal, I don't care if they go for pray 5 times per day every day or not, or if hes think of allah or some hot chick during hes pray :)
They all want to cleanse the world from all other religions, by any means necessary.
I agree that we shouldn't insult anyone, if it makes a bad picture of this forum.
But please people, keep that "I have two Muslim friends" story for youself ;)
Better ask yourself if your "friends" see you the same way.
-
lubab, actually I took the translation from a Quran site, I didn't added a thing.
This is the translation from the islamacity.com website.
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/5.htm
Chapter 5
"51. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."
It does not contain this word "certain" and this is a Muslim website. I would trust this website more because it has been around longer. In more recent version that are publically availabe Muslims have started adding in deceptive terms like "certain" and "in a time of war" to try and hide the truth about their religion.
Look it up in the Arabic and I bet it does not say "certain". Just look at the way it says "he amongst you that turns to them is OF THEM" as if it's some kind of crime to support Jews who are defending themselves. The whole book is full of this Nazi hate. Did the Jews do something to deserve this?
-
lubab, actually I took the translation from a Quran site, I didn't added a thing.
This is the translation from the islamacity.com website.
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/5.htm
Chapter 5
"51. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."
It does not contain this word "certain" and this is a Muslim website. I would trust this website more because it has been around longer. In more recent version that are publically availabe Muslims have started adding in deceptive terms like "certain" and "in a time of war" to try and hide the truth about their religion.
Look it up in the Arabic and I bet it does not say "certain"
I think you are right because most of the site have this type of translation.
By the way, here is a site responding to the verse:
http://www.omeriqbal.com/a/13
-
lubab, actually I took the translation from a Quran site, I didn't added a thing.
This is the translation from the islamacity.com website.
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/5.htm
Chapter 5
"51. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."
It does not contain this word "certain" and this is a Muslim website. I would trust this website more because it has been around longer. In more recent version that are publically availabe Muslims have started adding in deceptive terms like "certain" and "in a time of war" to try and hide the truth about their religion.
Look it up in the Arabic and I bet it does not say "certain"
I think you are right because most of the site have this type of translation.
By the way, here is a site responding to the verse:
http://www.omeriqbal.com/a/13
Thats the site I got my arguement from.
In arabic it does not read directly as being all Jews or Christians, but this is later understood in the following verses where it speaks of the Jews and Christians who were initiating set-ups against the prophet......people say the verse then refers to them, and not Jews in general.
-
lubab, actually I took the translation from a Quran site, I didn't added a thing.
This is the translation from the islamacity.com website.
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/5.htm
Chapter 5
"51. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."
It does not contain this word "certain" and this is a Muslim website. I would trust this website more because it has been around longer. In more recent version that are publically availabe Muslims have started adding in deceptive terms like "certain" and "in a time of war" to try and hide the truth about their religion.
Look it up in the Arabic and I bet it does not say "certain"
I think you are right because most of the site have this type of translation.
By the way, here is a site responding to the verse:
http://www.omeriqbal.com/a/13
That's funny Sarah used the exact same words to respond to the same question! What a coincidence. ::)
Sarah should realize that the point of this guy's website is to convert people to Islam and in his explanation even he states that his explanation is just his opinion. There is no indication whatsoever that his view is accepted among Muslim clerics.
And even if it was accepted, I would like to know which Jews he is refferring to? The ones who defend themselves? The one's who stay true to the Torah and don't accept this new false religion?
This explanation is itself sickening.
-
This looks like a taquiya explanation of this verse if I ever saw one. The verse clearly says "BELIEVERS, do not take the Jews as friends etc." It does not admonish the hypocrites. The word "hypocryte is not even used there at all.
I didn't write the explanation but I do not deny it. The verse says : "O you who Believe", stating it as a warning to the muslims of that time, not to follow the hypocrite muslims who sided with the Jewish and Christians so that whoever won the war, they would be accepted on both sides.
Of course JTF and Chaim ben Pesach will not befriend a Nazi ideology that has called for the destruction of his people!
Why would we do such an insane thing?
Well some muslims have the same argument. They won't befriend Jews because of the Israel-Arab conflict.
Sarah, you sound like every other Muslim out there trying to whitewash the hatred that is so obvious in their Koran. I am not impressed by this explanation or this tactic in the least bit.
So is what I stated not valid?
-
lubab, actually I took the translation from a Quran site, I didn't added a thing.
This is the translation from the islamacity.com website.
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/5.htm
Chapter 5
"51. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."
It does not contain this word "certain" and this is a Muslim website. I would trust this website more because it has been around longer. In more recent version that are publically availabe Muslims have started adding in deceptive terms like "certain" and "in a time of war" to try and hide the truth about their religion.
Look it up in the Arabic and I bet it does not say "certain"
I think you are right because most of the site have this type of translation.
By the way, here is a site responding to the verse:
http://www.omeriqbal.com/a/13
That's funny Sarah used the exact same words to respond to the same question! What a coincidence. ::)
Sarah should realize that the point of this guy's website is to convert people to Islam and in his explanation even he states that his explanation is just his opinion. There is no indication whatsoever that his view is accepted among Muslim clerics.
And even if it was accepted, I would like to know which Jews he is refferring to? The ones who defend themselves? The one's who stay true to the Torah and don't accept this new false religion?
This explanation is itself sickening.
Hey, Lubab, who is Elijah?
-
This looks like a taquiya explanation of this verse if I ever saw one. The verse clearly says "BELIEVERS, do not take the Jews as friends etc." It does not admonish the hypocrites. The word "hypocryte is not even used there at all.
I didn't write the explanation but I do not deny it. The verse says : "O you who Believe", stating it as a warning to the muslims of that time, not to follow the hypocrite muslims who sided with the Jewish and Christians so that whoever won the war, they would be accepted on both sides.
Of course JTF and Chaim ben Pesach will not befriend a Nazi ideology that has called for the destruction of his people!
Why would we do such an insane thing?
Well some muslims have the same argument. They won't befriend Jews because of the Israel-Arab conflict.
Sarah, you sound like every other Muslim out there trying to whitewash the hatred that is so obvious in their Koran. I am not impressed by this explanation or this tactic in the least bit.
So is what I stated not valid?
Yes what you stated is not valid.
Let's say I accept your explanation.
If there were Muslims who secretely were hoping for the Jews to win in any way they should be praised, not admonished. The Bible is very clear that those who support the Jews are blessed and those who don't are cursed.
Where does Islam come off supplanting the word of G-d and claiming that you're a hypocrite if you even contemplate supporting the Jews.
Right away you can see how evil a religion it is. A religion at war with the true G-d of Israel, the G-d of the Bible which will never be replaced or changed.
-
lubab, actually I took the translation from a Quran site, I didn't added a thing.
This is the translation from the islamacity.com website.
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/5.htm
Chapter 5
"51. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."
It does not contain this word "certain" and this is a Muslim website. I would trust this website more because it has been around longer. In more recent version that are publically availabe Muslims have started adding in deceptive terms like "certain" and "in a time of war" to try and hide the truth about their religion.
Look it up in the Arabic and I bet it does not say "certain"
I think you are right because most of the site have this type of translation.
By the way, here is a site responding to the verse:
http://www.omeriqbal.com/a/13
That's funny Sarah used the exact same words to respond to the same question! What a coincidence. ::)
Sarah should realize that the point of this guy's website is to convert people to Islam and in his explanation even he states that his explanation is just his opinion. There is no indication whatsoever that his view is accepted among Muslim clerics.
And even if it was accepted, I would like to know which Jews he is refferring to? The ones who defend themselves? The one's who stay true to the Torah and don't accept this new false religion?
This explanation is itself sickening.
Hey, Lubab, who is Elijah?
Sarah, you are the one on both sides of the fence here. Not me.
Another example of how the Koran steals concepts from the Torah but replaces "Jews" with "Muslims". When did this change take place, because some mass-murderer and child rapist demon possesed nut named Mohammed says so?
-
Problems with your argument, Sarah, a core concept of Islam is that the Quran is the eternal word of Allah, if it is such, how can a verse be relevent at a particular time only? You insist on a particular translation, saying it is what the arabic really says, are you fluent in arabic to know this? If Islam is peaceful, becoming a muslim would not have meant that you had to stand with one armed gang (mo's) against the defences of the christian and Jewish groups.
Regarding your talk about the breaking of the truce, can you get me some evidence, quotes from some source or other, and not a random website saying that the Quraish broke the treaty?
Regarding the topic of this thread, I agree that we shouldn't be resorting to losw personal insults, we can and should oppose Islam, but if we are going to call them camel rapers or stuff like that, many people will not not even consider taking us seriously, and besides, it isn't always accurate, in fact it is often inaccurate, that's why it's an insult not a statement, and I personally don't see any place for insults anywhere in the world. I made this clear in my recent pm to Chaim, I have also made it clear that if JTF wants low insults to be the order of the day on it's forum, I wish to resign my post as a moderator.
-
It isn't relevant to just that particular time, of course not but it was sent down as a message at the time for that certain problem, as well as being a message for muslims of all eras to follow. Many verses were sent as warnings during Muhammads time but it doesn't mean the message does not still apply.
Islam does not translate into the religion of piece, it means to surrender, to the will of God. Though through its teachings things should be carried out peacefully.
Here you are saying "against the defenses" when what the explanation said spoke of the Jews and Christians who were trying to create set-ups to catch Muhammad out. They weren't defending themselves at this point according to this view.
There were hadiths in that article, that I posted which I got from wikipedia, i'll find some other things.
Lubab muslims don't believe they are stealing them because the Quran is from the same God as was the Torah and thus the messages cannot change. They believe that after the children of Israel were punished and excessively questioned, God was angry with them and so sent down the next message, the bible-new testament-, but that was altered and so the final message was sent down to mankind and that was the Quran.
-
Sarah, I would be happy to debate Islam with you at any time and at any place.
But let me start with one thing that you may not be aware of.
In order for you to be a Muslim, you have to beleive that G-d gave divine revelation to Muhammad WHILE HE WAS ENGAGED IN SEX WITH A NINE YEAR OLD GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Muhammad says this in the Hadith.
I can furnish the quotes as soon as you think whether or not YOU beleive that G-d appears to his prophets WHILE THEY ARE HAVING SEX WITH LITTLE CHILDREN.
Sarah, you seem like a smart girl.
Do you actually beleive that?
-
Lubab muslims don't believe they are stealing them because the Quran is from the same G-d as was the Torah and thus the messages cannot change. They believe that after the children of Israel were punished and excessively questioned, G-d was angry with them and so sent down the next message, the bible-new testament-, but that was altered and so the final message was sent down to mankind and that was the Quran.
Sarah,
I ask again.....
Where is the evidence that Jews perverted Torah. If this was true, archeologists would have found old Torah scrolls with muSSlim texts in them but they DON'T exist.Every Torah scroll they unearth all over the east is allways exactly as it is today.
Secondly, do you really think that the Jews (who have proved their status as a light unto the world ) are wrong but an illiterate rapist and a tribe of smelly camel jockies are right? C'mon!
-
There are NO moderate muslims. Islam is a monstrous religion. ANYONE who adheres to it is a monster. Wake up!!!!!!!
Do you think every Muslim read in the Quran all day ? That they actually know what their religion saying in a deep prespective ? And there are moderate Muslims, as there are Moderate people in any group/religion.
Dexter, once again, you hit the nail right on the head. If there are moderate Jews and Jews that do not adhere to everything in the religion, then isn't it also reasonable to assume that the same thing may exist with muslims? I think we should differentiate between Islam and Muslims. We should fear Islam. But not all Muslims necessarily practice Islam to such an absolute and radical extreme. Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes? For me personally, only the latter applies.
Unlike in Judaism where being Jewish is something you get from birth, in Islam and most every other religion I know of it is based on your beliefs. So if someone doesn't believe in the tenents of Islam as stated in the Koran they are not a Muslim by any definition. They might call themselves a Muslim, but that is a lie.
But at the end of the day even these so called moderate Muslims will side with Al Queda long before they side with Israel and the Jews making them a serious cause for concern as well.
-
It isn't relevant to just that particular time, of course not but it was sent down as a message at the time for that certain problem, as well as being a message for muslims of all eras to follow. Many verses were sent as warnings during Muhammads time but it doesn't mean the message does not still apply.
Islam does not translate into the religion of piece, it means to surrender, to the will of G-d. Though through its teachings things should be carried out peacefully.
Here you are saying "against the defenses" when what the explanation said spoke of the Jews and Christians who were trying to create set-ups to catch Muhammad out. They weren't defending themselves at this point according to this view.
There were hadiths in that article, that I posted which I got from wikipedia, i'll find some other things.
Lubab muslims don't believe they are stealing them because the Quran is from the same G-d as was the Torah and thus the messages cannot change. They believe that after the children of Israel were punished and excessively questioned, G-d was angry with them and so sent down the next message, the bible-new testament-, but that was altered and so the final message was sent down to mankind and that was the Quran.
I honestly have no idea what you just said means. There appear to be some missing thoughts.
You can copy-paste from as many websites as you want but when Muhammed tried to convert the Jews the Bible says that is evil. When Muhammed tried to kill the Jews the Bible says that is evil too. Those are the rules G-d laid down and they don't change.
G-d sends down messages all the time, but the Koran was not such a message. The Koran was a tool Mohammed used to try to wipe out Jews and Judaism just like all the other enemies of the Jewish people before him and after him.
How do we know this? Becaue G-d said in the Bible that if someone comes along and tries to change one bit of what the Torah said he is a false prophet and must be killed. Mohammed not only tried to change a part of the Torah but fought against EVERY SINGLE THING IT STANDS FOR. He took the apple of G-d's eye and tried to destroy them and make his own followers into the chosen ones. There can be no greater evil.
Detox from your Muslim teachers. Take a month and just read the Bible yourself and see then later come back to see how everything there has been perverted, yes perverted by the Koran.
-
There are NO moderate muslims. Islam is a monstrous religion. ANYONE who adheres to it is a monster. Wake up!!!!!!!
Do you think every Muslim read in the Quran all day ? That they actually know what their religion saying in a deep prespective ? And there are moderate Muslims, as there are Moderate people in any group/religion.
Dexter, once again, you hit the nail right on the head. If there are moderate Jews and Jews that do not adhere to everything in the religion, then isn't it also reasonable to assume that the same thing may exist with muslims? I think we should differentiate between Islam and Muslims. We should fear Islam. But not all Muslims necessarily practice Islam to such an absolute and radical extreme. Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes? For me personally, only the latter applies.
Again Daniel you fail to compare apples with apples and fall into that moral equivallence trap.
Judaism is good, not evil. Someone who doesn't practice it 100% is simply falling short of an ideal. They're not bad.
Islam is an evil, nazi doctrine of mass-murder and world domination. Someone who follows half of it is still a monster.
-
Dexter, Muslims hate Jews, don't kid yourself. If it makes you feel better you can say they don't.
-
Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes
Thats sort of like saying im afraid of nazi germany but not of the SS soldiers :-\ We get told in school that "islam is peace" and I go home and turn on the TV and see muslims burning my flag and saying death to America, and its all over in muslim countries, and even some non muslim countries, not just a "few" of them. Not only the flag burning, I hear about the beheadings, rapes, murders, 'honor' killings (sorry im only 11 and to say 'honor' killing is the dumbest thing ive ever heard) and i could go on, but the point is, do I believe 'islam is peace' because someone is saying it, or do I believe what I see with my own eyes.
Lubab I like your posts!
-
Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes
Thats sort of like saying im afraid of nazi germany but not of the SS soldiers :-\ We get told in school that "islam is peace" and I go home and turn on the TV and see muslims burning my flag and saying death to America, and its all over in muslim countries, and even some non muslim countries, not just a "few" of them. Not only the flag burning, I hear about the beheadings, rapes, murders, 'honor' killings (sorry im only 11 and to say 'honor' killing is the dumbest thing ive ever heard) and i could go on, but the point is, do I believe 'islam is peace' because someone is saying it, or do I believe what I see with my own eyes.
Lubab I like your posts!
This is true and a very good empirical evidence. O0
-
Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes
Thats sort of like saying im afraid of nazi germany but not of the SS soldiers :-\ We get told in school that "islam is peace" and I go home and turn on the TV and see muslims burning my flag and saying death to America, and its all over in muslim countries, and even some non muslim countries, not just a "few" of them. Not only the flag burning, I hear about the beheadings, rapes, murders, 'honor' killings (sorry im only 11 and to say 'honor' killing is the dumbest thing ive ever heard) and i could go on, but the point is, do I believe 'islam is peace' because someone is saying it, or do I believe what I see with my own eyes.
Lubab I like your posts!
Adam,
Daniel is a school teacher and a liberal.
Just like the idiots at your school trying to tell you iSSlam means peace.
-
Islam is an evil religion. All Muslims want to kill all non-Muslims. The Koran commands them to do so. There are no buts about it. If you can't see the evils of Islam, despite everything this movement has done to expose it, then, what can I tell you? You can read the Koran for yourself, just use the link on the homepage. If you still have any doubt in your mind as to the undoubtedly evil of the religion, then, it's just pure ignorance on your part.
How can one read the Koran and see the actions of Muslim Nazis and not be able to draw a connection and classify Islam and its followers as evil?
People need to stop being so immature and accept the facts. Islam is evil, like it or not. It's not an opinion. You can't say it's a nice day outside, when there's a thunderstorm. It's just not true.
The inability for some people of this movement to not realize that Islam is evil is very disturbing. These people need to wake up. Perhaps these people have not read the Koran or seen the particular JTF videos in which it is discussed. If these people haven't, DO SO IMMEDIATELY!
-
Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes
Thats sort of like saying im afraid of nazi germany but not of the SS soldiers :-\ We get told in school that "islam is peace" and I go home and turn on the TV and see muslims burning my flag and saying death to America, and its all over in muslim countries, and even some non muslim countries, not just a "few" of them. Not only the flag burning, I hear about the beheadings, rapes, murders, 'honor' killings (sorry im only 11 and to say 'honor' killing is the dumbest thing ive ever heard) and i could go on, but the point is, do I believe 'islam is peace' because someone is saying it, or do I believe what I see with my own eyes.
Lubab I like your posts!
Adam,
Daniel is a school teacher and a liberal.
Just like the idiots at your school trying to tell you iSSlam means peace.
Well I politely listen to them, if they ask me my opinion then I tell them
Daniel is entitled to his freedom of speech of course, but I think kids who dont have parents who care about what they learn in school are getting a one sided view. I dont think the way I do just because my family thinks this way, I am told to 'go and learn for yourself' all the time, there is alot of information out there for anyone who cares to look for it.
-
Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes
Thats sort of like saying im afraid of nazi germany but not of the SS soldiers :-\ We get told in school that "islam is peace" and I go home and turn on the TV and see muslims burning my flag and saying death to America, and its all over in muslim countries, and even some non muslim countries, not just a "few" of them. Not only the flag burning, I hear about the beheadings, rapes, murders, 'honor' killings (sorry im only 11 and to say 'honor' killing is the dumbest thing ive ever heard) and i could go on, but the point is, do I believe 'islam is peace' because someone is saying it, or do I believe what I see with my own eyes.
Lubab I like your posts!
Adam,
Daniel is a school teacher and a liberal.
Just like the idiots at your school trying to tell you iSSlam means peace.
Well I politely listen to them, if they ask me my opinion then I tell them
Daniel is entitled to his freedom of speech of course, but I think kids who dont have parents who care about what they learn in school are getting a one sided view. I dont think the way I do just because my family thinks this way, I am told to 'go and learn for yourself' all the time, there is alot of information out there for anyone who cares to look for it.
Daniel doesn't deserve any respect. He's a liberal, and therefore, he wants to hurt the country.
-
Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes
Thats sort of like saying im afraid of nazi germany but not of the SS soldiers :-\ We get told in school that "islam is peace" and I go home and turn on the TV and see muslims burning my flag and saying death to America, and its all over in muslim countries, and even some non muslim countries, not just a "few" of them. Not only the flag burning, I hear about the beheadings, rapes, murders, 'honor' killings (sorry im only 11 and to say 'honor' killing is the dumbest thing ive ever heard) and i could go on, but the point is, do I believe 'islam is peace' because someone is saying it, or do I believe what I see with my own eyes.
Lubab I like your posts!
Adam,
Daniel is a school teacher and a liberal.
Just like the idiots at your school trying to tell you iSSlam means peace.
Well I politely listen to them, if they ask me my opinion then I tell them
Daniel is entitled to his freedom of speech of course, but I think kids who dont have parents who care about what they learn in school are getting a one sided view. I dont think the way I do just because my family thinks this way, I am told to 'go and learn for yourself' all the time, there is alot of information out there for anyone who cares to look for it.
Daniel doesn't deserve any respect. He's a liberal, and therefore, he wants to hurt the country.
I know but Im a kid and I have to be respectful because he is an adult, even though I dont respect liberal beliefs. All my teachers are like him, I have to be respectful, but I will still say what is on my mind(sometimes that causes problems but I dont care)...makes me not be able to wait till im an adult lol.
-
Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes
Thats sort of like saying im afraid of nazi germany but not of the SS soldiers :-\ We get told in school that "islam is peace" and I go home and turn on the TV and see muslims burning my flag and saying death to America, and its all over in muslim countries, and even some non muslim countries, not just a "few" of them. Not only the flag burning, I hear about the beheadings, rapes, murders, 'honor' killings (sorry im only 11 and to say 'honor' killing is the dumbest thing ive ever heard) and i could go on, but the point is, do I believe 'islam is peace' because someone is saying it, or do I believe what I see with my own eyes.
Lubab I like your posts!
Adam,
Daniel is a school teacher and a liberal.
Just like the idiots at your school trying to tell you iSSlam means peace.
Well I politely listen to them, if they ask me my opinion then I tell them
Daniel is entitled to his freedom of speech of course, but I think kids who dont have parents who care about what they learn in school are getting a one sided view. I dont think the way I do just because my family thinks this way, I am told to 'go and learn for yourself' all the time, there is alot of information out there for anyone who cares to look for it.
Daniel doesn't deserve any respect. He's a liberal, and therefore, he wants to hurt the country.
I know but Im a kid and I have to be respectful because he is an adult, even though I dont respect liberal beliefs. All my teachers are like him, I have to be respectful, but I will still say what is on my mind(sometimes that causes problems but I dont care)...makes me not be able to wait till im an adult lol.
Respect is not automatic. It must be earned. If your teachers are liberals they have proved to be half-witted imbeciles. You should give them no more respect than you would give to retards in a mongoloid home.
-
Are we Muslimphobes as well as Islamophobes
Thats sort of like saying im afraid of nazi germany but not of the SS soldiers :-\ We get told in school that "islam is peace" and I go home and turn on the TV and see muslims burning my flag and saying death to America, and its all over in muslim countries, and even some non muslim countries, not just a "few" of them. Not only the flag burning, I hear about the beheadings, rapes, murders, 'honor' killings (sorry im only 11 and to say 'honor' killing is the dumbest thing ive ever heard) and i could go on, but the point is, do I believe 'islam is peace' because someone is saying it, or do I believe what I see with my own eyes.
Lubab I like your posts!
Adam,
Daniel is a school teacher and a liberal.
Just like the idiots at your school trying to tell you iSSlam means peace.
Well I politely listen to them, if they ask me my opinion then I tell them
Daniel is entitled to his freedom of speech of course, but I think kids who dont have parents who care about what they learn in school are getting a one sided view. I dont think the way I do just because my family thinks this way, I am told to 'go and learn for yourself' all the time, there is alot of information out there for anyone who cares to look for it.
Daniel doesn't deserve any respect. He's a liberal, and therefore, he wants to hurt the country.
I know but Im a kid and I have to be respectful because he is an adult, even though I dont respect liberal beliefs. All my teachers are like him, I have to be respectful, but I will still say what is on my mind(sometimes that causes problems but I dont care)...makes me not be able to wait till im an adult lol.
Respect is not automatic. It must be earned. If your teachers are liberals they have proved to be half-witted imbeciles. You should give them no more respect than you would give to retards in a mongoloid home.
Oh Im allowed to tell them whats on my mind, I just cant talk to them using words they deserve :laugh:
Tell my mom cause sometimes I do have to control my language O0
-
I guess I'm answering to this thread a little late..but better late than never...
My response will be to no surprise to people here who know me...I come along the line of agreeing with the original poster and Dexter (from what I read so far)...
Here are my dilemas:
1. Sometimes a movement like JTF needs express "radical" and "extreme" positions on certain things and be stubborn about it in order to prevent it from becoming water down and ineffective in the future. Since it is a rogue movement and not a popular political movement, it has to be what it has to be, I guess. However, the majority of decent educated people get turned off by extreme and radical positions and absolutist point of views, such as, "ALL Muslims are evil" or "ALL so-in-so's are inferior." I mean sure, i know this movement hates political correctness. However, political correctness has also had positive influences. Unfortunately today it has gone way too far. Anyway, my point is that JTF as a movement, if it wants to be reasonable and popular needs to find a happy medium of certain radical and absolutist opinions.
2. when i first joined this forum, I was very uncomfortable because of what seemed absolutist in Chaim's words on Blacks and homosexuals and other types of people. However, after asking him to clarify such matters, he has continually done so in every video...that it isn't the race..it's the behavior and culture which is bad...We have even, furthermore, clarified that certain races and nationalities if the majority are evil, doesn't mean that all are evil and in those cases, we have to be more vigilant until the person proves themself righteous...the same thing would be the opposite... If there was a righteous nationality, we could assume that person was righteous until he proved himself evil. And so with this, I know I can at least trust Chaim on these matters. He, too, has decided to be politically correct to a certain extent and that's why i'm still here and alomst as a whistle blower to anyone who begins to race bait...This is a movement which looks for righteous people irregardless of race, religion, creed, etc. etc etc etc.
3. Muslims (not Islam), but Muslims are another matter. Same thing with homosexuals. I don't know where a lot of the very right wing people come from or who they hang out with or if they have had any experiences with certain types in the outside world etc etc etc.. But for me, like Dexter and many others in this forum and who know nothing about our forum, also work with and have "friends" and "acquaintenances" who just happen to be the very people that many of the far right people on this forum preach hate about (rightfully or wrongfully). I can say that I am comfortable in my own skin of those "acquaintences" that just happen to be the very people who are not supposed to like. Many of them are decent, hard working, normal human beings and are most likely not politically affiliaited to anything..perhaps just want a peaceful life and raise a decent family and want the very basics most people in this world want. So, in my mind, not ALL Muslims are evil.
4. But if I feel not ALL muslims are evil, does that mean i would trust one with my life even if it were an acquaintence? No...not in a million years..not after 9/11... Does that mean I'm going to get into a political or religious discussion everytime i see one? No, why should I? It solves nothing to scream and yell and get all heated on something...I've learned that nobody likes a preacher..or the crazy man on the street with a microphone who raves and rants in the open city...It's retarded. JTF is a tiny organization. If it is to become popular and filled with reasonable, intellectual, passionate, laid back people, it should lighten up every once in awhile and make rational opinions..and so should the forum members who are far to the right.
5. Does JTF want laid back people? In its early stage, it is better to have passionate people who will act and not be laid back...but as it grows larger and makes it out to the millions out there watching Fox news, it may be necessary to moderate itself without affecting the main platform: Make evil unpopular and righteousness very popular. Bless Israel and the Righteous. Bless Hashem.
-
Srbin(e),
Its not about Muslims as people. Its about their hateful ideology which they are greately committed to. They call Jews pigs and apes. They cannot applaud their prophet who himself, converted, murdered and expelled Jews and other non-Muslims who made Arabian Peninsula their home for 2500 years before Muhammad showed up.
Muhammad was a murderer, he was a rapist and all other things Ali Sina has accused him of. It is not about Muslims praying to Allah or believing in Allah - great, God is God, call him what you will, it is about following Muhammad, believing Muhammad and in some cases following his example.
Its like saying: 'I am a Hitler follower, and it is only those fundamentalist Hitler followers which kill Jews. Moderate Hitler followers don't kill Jews''.
-
Note: Don't get this message wrong.
Listen up dear JTFer's.
I got to say that we are getting to far with insulting muslims in PUBLIC. If a muslims smells like we saw one thread about it, you don't need to show it here. Hold it for yourself. It gives us just bad reputation. After all islam is the biggest relgion in the world right now, and they have many supporters. JTF isn't trying to insult everyone right? Just nazis, terrorists and those crappies. I know that many of you us has muslim friends, and the matter of fact, me too. He is not a terrorist or any kind of an "evil" muslim. Just a human as we. And about my friends jews. All muslims don't hate jews right? (Don't know that one, explain someone.) There was just a nazicroat that made a video about JTF in a negative way (can't remember where to find the video), and there are people out there that listens too him because everything seems so logical into their eyes. It's just because they maybe have a muslim friend, and the thoughts in those peoples heads are: JTF is bad, my best friend is a muslim and they hate all muslims.
Or in some other ways. So... is it really neccassery to share thoughts in public?. It's just my opinion about this. After all, the majority of human kind believes in propaganda (not JTF :D).
JTFer's, what about a change?
Theres no such thing as a good muslim, and none should be toleratered at all and if this forum even goes down, the brainless road of accepting any part of this religion or thought process it is lost and so are Jews.
Only good muslim is a dead one.
-
Only good muslim is a dead one.
So Western anti-Semite are even worse. Even dead ones are evil. If you kill a Muslim terrorist, he would, in the worst of cases become a "martyr". But if you kill an Inquisitor, he may become a "Saint".
-
Only good muslim is a dead one.
So Western anti-Semite are even worse. Even dead ones are evil. If you kill a Muslim terrorist, he would, in the worst of cases become a "martyr". But if you kill an Inquisitor, he may become a "Saint".
I don't care dead muslim is camel spider food, and they then are not risk to Jews or the Western world again.
They kill everything, rape women, animals and babies, they are scum. Non human.
-
Re: "...You can't say it's a nice day outside, when there's a thunderstorm. It's just not true..."
I quote Rabbi Meir Kahane:
"A Jew is a person who refuses to carry an umbrella until he's already caught pneumonia."
I've often wondered if this Jewish trait was not bestowed upon us by Ha'Shem as part of his Curse upon us for abandoning Torah.
Other than here on the forum, I know of only 2 Jews who will "see" the truth and understand what is going on.
This includes an extended family as well as an extended community. The rest "refuse to believe it"..."refuse to listen to it"..."want to know where in the world you heard those lies".
All people practice "denial" to some degree, but it would seem that only the Jew carries a genetic predisposition for refusing to believe that anyone could possibly wish him harm.
-
From what I understand the Qur'an makes no distinction between 'unbelievers' and 'evil-doers.' They are used interchangeably and refer to the same group of people.
"Hast thou seen him who considers the religion false? That fellow is the one who repulses the orphan."
"Woe on that Day to those who count it false! Did We not destroy those of former times? Then We shall cause those of later times to follow them, for thus We deal with sinners."
-
Sarah needs to understand that has she lived at the time of Mohamed, if she were to be righteous according to the Torah she would be obliged to fight alongside the Jews and try to kill Mohamed Y"sv. She would have to be among those the Koran calls the "hypocrites".
She said some Jews were trying to trick and take down Mohamed as if it was a bad thing. If only they had succeeded how many lives would have been spared.
In Muslims schools it seems they make Mohamed out to be some prince charming do-gooder. What lies innocent people like Sarah are being fed!
-
Not just a 'prince charming' but to quote from a muslim website....he is "the best example for humanity"...really....an old man who would sexually violate a child (and spare me the 'child of 9 was different back then BS...a girl of 9 was still a child) would rape, kill, lie and generally terrorize people who did not follow his beliefs is supposed to be "the best example for humanity"???
Im sorry but in order to be a muslim, you DO need to believe this, this statement (not always in those words but same meaning) is common among muslims sites...and IF you believe this then YES you are a muslim and YES when we say muslims are evil beasts we mean you.
-
3. Muslims (not Islam), but Muslims are another matter. Same thing with homosexuals. I don't know where a lot of the very right wing people come from or who they hang out with or if they have had any experiences with certain types in the outside world etc etc etc.. But for me, like Dexter and many others in this forum and who know nothing about our forum, also work with and have "friends" and "acquaintenances" who just happen to be the very people that many of the far right people on this forum preach hate about (rightfully or wrongfully). I can say that I am comfortable in my own skin of those "acquaintences" that just happen to be the very people who are not supposed to like. Many of them are decent, hard working, normal human beings and are most likely not politically affiliaited to anything..perhaps just want a peaceful life and raise a decent family and want the very basics most people in this world want. So, in my mind, not ALL Muslims are evil.
Well the facts disagree with your assessment. The polls show that the vast majority of Muslims do support bin laden and terrorism against non-muslims, though they themselves may not be willing to practice it (not everyone is a "hero").
One in four of those Muslims you meet even in AMERICA ADMIT to supporting suicide bombings when the true numbers including those who don't admit it are much higher.
JTF is right when they say all Muslims are evil, the only problem is people are not educated about what a Muslim really is. Our job is to educate them.
-
Not just a 'prince charming' but to quote from a muslim website....he is "the best example for humanity"...really....an old man who would sexually violate a child (and spare me the 'child of 9 was different back then BS...a girl of 9 was still a child) would rape, kill, lie and generally terrorize people who did not follow his beliefs is supposed to be "the best example for humanity"???
Im sorry but in order to be a muslim, you DO need to believe this, this statement (not always in those words but same meaning) is common among muslims sites...and IF you believe this then YES you are a muslim and YES when we say muslims are evil beasts we mean you.
Oh so nicely put O0
-
3. Muslims (not Islam), but Muslims are another matter. Same thing with homosexuals. I don't know where a lot of the very right wing people come from or who they hang out with or if they have had any experiences with certain types in the outside world etc etc etc.. But for me, like Dexter and many others in this forum and who know nothing about our forum, also work with and have "friends" and "acquaintenances" who just happen to be the very people that many of the far right people on this forum preach hate about (rightfully or wrongfully). I can say that I am comfortable in my own skin of those "acquaintences" that just happen to be the very people who are not supposed to like. Many of them are decent, hard working, normal human beings and are most likely not politically affiliaited to anything..perhaps just want a peaceful life and raise a decent family and want the very basics most people in this world want. So, in my mind, not ALL Muslims are evil.
Well the facts disagree with your assessment. The polls show that the vast majority of Muslims do support bin laden and terrorism against non-muslims, though they themselves may not be willing to practice it (not everyone is a "hero").
One in four of those Muslims you meet even in AMERICA ADMIT to supporting suicide bombings when the true numbers including those who don't admit it are much higher.
JTF is right when they say all Muslims are evil, the only problem is people are not educated about what a Muslim really is. Our job is to educate them.
You mean a muslim by definition who practices Islam knowingly that Mohammed was an evil doer..
What if it is a Muslim who has faith in Gd and that religion, but doesn't realize how evil the Koran really is...and truely believes that people like Bin Ladin and the terrorists are freaks? Does that mean that person isn't really a Muslim? How can we judge this? There are billions who consider themselves Muslim but how many realize they aren't practicing Islam if they fit the characterization that I was writing about earlier in the paragraph? Surely, not all Muslims practice deception...Some are true Muslims and want to kill all of us. Others are pretending to be moderates but really want to kill us. But I'm sure there are a bunch who don't know any better and want to live side by side..but then they really aren't Muslims...You get me?
I definately think the Koran and Islam as it really is is an evil evil evil religion..And anyone who follows it like that is really really really evil..And anyone who practices deception to pretend to be nice and moderate but really want to kill all of us or convert us is really really evil...but what about the rest who consider themselves Muslim, but may be honest decent people relatively speaking? I mean is that all of those Muslims are also trying to deceive us? Perhaps...or only just a few? or are we just being paranoid? Or am I just losing my mind? HELP ME!!!! :-[ ::)
-
There may be so called moderate Muslims out there, but we, at the very least, must keep a watchful eye on them. Suspicion as a matter of course. They won't like it of course, but tough. This is OUR SURVIVAL. Muslims must be made to feel uncomfortable.
-
3. Muslims (not Islam), but Muslims are another matter. Same thing with homosexuals. I don't know where a lot of the very right wing people come from or who they hang out with or if they have had any experiences with certain types in the outside world etc etc etc.. But for me, like Dexter and many others in this forum and who know nothing about our forum, also work with and have "friends" and "acquaintenances" who just happen to be the very people that many of the far right people on this forum preach hate about (rightfully or wrongfully). I can say that I am comfortable in my own skin of those "acquaintences" that just happen to be the very people who are not supposed to like. Many of them are decent, hard working, normal human beings and are most likely not politically affiliaited to anything..perhaps just want a peaceful life and raise a decent family and want the very basics most people in this world want. So, in my mind, not ALL Muslims are evil.
Well the facts disagree with your assessment. The polls show that the vast majority of Muslims do support bin laden and terrorism against non-muslims, though they themselves may not be willing to practice it (not everyone is a "hero").
One in four of those Muslims you meet even in AMERICA ADMIT to supporting suicide bombings when the true numbers including those who don't admit it are much higher.
JTF is right when they say all Muslims are evil, the only problem is people are not educated about what a Muslim really is. Our job is to educate them.
You mean a muslim by definition who practices Islam knowingly that Mohammed was an evil doer..
What if it is a Muslim who has faith in Gd and that religion, but doesn't realize how evil the Koran really is...and truely believes that people like Bin Ladin and the terrorists are freaks? Does that mean that person isn't really a Muslim? How can we judge this? There are billions who consider themselves Muslim but how many realize they aren't practicing Islam if they fit the characterization that I was writing about earlier in the paragraph? Surely, not all Muslims practice deception...Some are true Muslims and want to kill all of us. Others are pretending to be moderates but really want to kill us. But I'm sure there are a bunch who don't know any better and want to live side by side..but then they really aren't Muslims...You get me?
I definately think the Koran and Islam as it really is is an evil evil evil religion..And anyone who follows it like that is really really really evil..And anyone who practices deception to pretend to be nice and moderate but really want to kill all of us or convert us is really really evil...but what about the rest who consider themselves Muslim, but may be honest decent people relatively speaking? I mean is that all of those Muslims are also trying to deceive us? Perhaps...or only just a few? or are we just being paranoid? Or am I just losing my mind? HELP ME!!!! :-[ ::)
It's simple. The burden is on them to prove they are the exception to the rule. Otherwise we must go by the majority who wishes us harm.
-
3. Muslims (not Islam), but Muslims are another matter. Same thing with homosexuals. I don't know where a lot of the very right wing people come from or who they hang out with or if they have had any experiences with certain types in the outside world etc etc etc.. But for me, like Dexter and many others in this forum and who know nothing about our forum, also work with and have "friends" and "acquaintenances" who just happen to be the very people that many of the far right people on this forum preach hate about (rightfully or wrongfully). I can say that I am comfortable in my own skin of those "acquaintences" that just happen to be the very people who are not supposed to like. Many of them are decent, hard working, normal human beings and are most likely not politically affiliaited to anything..perhaps just want a peaceful life and raise a decent family and want the very basics most people in this world want. So, in my mind, not ALL Muslims are evil.
Well the facts disagree with your assessment. The polls show that the vast majority of Muslims do support bin laden and terrorism against non-muslims, though they themselves may not be willing to practice it (not everyone is a "hero").
One in four of those Muslims you meet even in AMERICA ADMIT to supporting suicide bombings when the true numbers including those who don't admit it are much higher.
JTF is right when they say all Muslims are evil, the only problem is people are not educated about what a Muslim really is. Our job is to educate them.
You mean a muslim by definition who practices Islam knowingly that Mohammed was an evil doer..
What if it is a Muslim who has faith in Gd and that religion, but doesn't realize how evil the Koran really is...and truely believes that people like Bin Ladin and the terrorists are freaks? Does that mean that person isn't really a Muslim? How can we judge this? There are billions who consider themselves Muslim but how many realize they aren't practicing Islam if they fit the characterization that I was writing about earlier in the paragraph? Surely, not all Muslims practice deception...Some are true Muslims and want to kill all of us. Others are pretending to be moderates but really want to kill us. But I'm sure there are a bunch who don't know any better and want to live side by side..but then they really aren't Muslims...You get me?
I definately think the Koran and Islam as it really is is an evil evil evil religion..And anyone who follows it like that is really really really evil..And anyone who practices deception to pretend to be nice and moderate but really want to kill all of us or convert us is really really evil...but what about the rest who consider themselves Muslim, but may be honest decent people relatively speaking? I mean is that all of those Muslims are also trying to deceive us? Perhaps...or only just a few? or are we just being paranoid? Or am I just losing my mind? HELP ME!!!! :-[ ::)
It's simple. The burden is on them to prove they are the exception to the rule. Otherwise we must go by the majority who wishes us harm.
Lubab, help me...I know there is a Talmudic law that you can say this about an individual person...can you paraphrase for me about a nation or a whole community and where it comes from in the Torah? Thank you.
-
Not just a 'prince charming' but to quote from a muslim website....he is "the best example for humanity"...really....an old man who would sexually violate a child (and spare me the 'child of 9 was different back then BS...a girl of 9 was still a child) would rape, kill, lie and generally terrorize people who did not follow his beliefs is supposed to be "the best example for humanity"???
Im sorry but in order to be a muslim, you DO need to believe this, this statement (not always in those words but same meaning) is common among muslims sites...and IF you believe this then YES you are a muslim and YES when we say muslims are evil beasts we mean you.
The stuff about "9 year olds being different or more mature" back then is ludicrous!
It is the opposite. Our own historical records show that girls are maturing earlier today than just 3 generations ago. A 15 year old girl at the turn of last century would resemble an 11 or 12 year old of today. If anything, a 9 year old of mo' the rapist's day would have had the sexual developement of a six year old.
-
שלום,
Chaim, Mohammad destroyed many tribes, one of them was Quriesh, Mohammad also destroyed Christian tribes and non-Muslim tribes as a way to expend his little empire. The Jews, according to the Tanach, as you know, destroyed 7 whole people, and to destroy any man/woman that is decent of them is one of the 613 commends.
Islam does not wish to destroy or convert all non-Muslim, unless they are idolaters (Christians considered to be idolaters but the Muslims are commended not to destroy them). If Islam wish to destroy/convert Non-Muslims how come he didn't destroyed or convert Mizrhi Jews and Christian who lived and lives in Muslim countries for 1300 years ?
Dhimmitude, a second class status offered to Jews & Christians who did not accept islam and who did not fight to defend themselves from islamic aggression. They could practise their religion only with severe restrictions. (See 'pact of umar') Dhimmis pay a tax called jizya in a humiliating, degrading way. Their everyday lives are hard and are in constant danger as being a dhimmi does not exempt one from being a victim of islamic tyranny. Sometimes life was too hard for dhimmis and some of them converted to islam for a better life. The jizya was a source of income for the islamic state. When Jews were commanded to destroy entire peoples by HaShem, those people attacked Jews for no reason and were an evil lot. muslims attack and destroy everything not islamic.
-
I know that..
Christians were much evil in that era, but I don't think Christianety is evil as a result (but there are some verses I don't actually like, I have to admit)
-
uhh.... I am not saying that I support islam but I am saying that MANY PEOPLE support islam SO they THINK bad of JTF! It's that what I am trying to say. Many people = support islam. Many people = hate JTF because we insult them and they defend them. If we keep like this, we will stay on 5000 supporters. If you can convince people then ok, but I don't think it will work to get 1 mil supporters,
-
uhh.... I am not saying that I support islam but I am saying that MANY PEOPLE support islam SO they THINK bad of JTF! It's that what I am trying to say. Many people = support islam. Many people = hate JTF because we insult them and they defend them. If we keep like this, we will stay on 5000 supporters. If you can convince people then ok, but I don't think it will work to get 1 mil supporters,
I think you are wrong
-
If you voice an opinion of any kind it will upset someone, I don't think its too much of a big deal. World hasn't stopped turning, life goes on.
-
uhh.... I am not saying that I support islam but I am saying that MANY PEOPLE support islam SO they THINK bad of JTF! It's that what I am trying to say. Many people = support islam. Many people = hate JTF because we insult them and they defend them. If we keep like this, we will stay on 5000 supporters. If you can convince people then ok, but I don't think it will work to get 1 mil supporters,
But many times quantity is not as important as quality. If you sacrifice your ideals in order to appeal to a larger mass of people, you weaken the organization and, inevitably, the cause you are fighting for.
I'd rather have 300 Spartans than 10,000 Immortals. :)
-
3. Muslims (not Islam), but Muslims are another matter. Same thing with homosexuals. I don't know where a lot of the very right wing people come from or who they hang out with or if they have had any experiences with certain types in the outside world etc etc etc.. But for me, like Dexter and many others in this forum and who know nothing about our forum, also work with and have "friends" and "acquaintenances" who just happen to be the very people that many of the far right people on this forum preach hate about (rightfully or wrongfully). I can say that I am comfortable in my own skin of those "acquaintences" that just happen to be the very people who are not supposed to like. Many of them are decent, hard working, normal human beings and are most likely not politically affiliaited to anything..perhaps just want a peaceful life and raise a decent family and want the very basics most people in this world want. So, in my mind, not ALL Muslims are evil.
Well the facts disagree with your assessment. The polls show that the vast majority of Muslims do support bin laden and terrorism against non-muslims, though they themselves may not be willing to practice it (not everyone is a "hero").
One in four of those Muslims you meet even in AMERICA ADMIT to supporting suicide bombings when the true numbers including those who don't admit it are much higher.
JTF is right when they say all Muslims are evil, the only problem is people are not educated about what a Muslim really is. Our job is to educate them.
You mean a muslim by definition who practices Islam knowingly that Mohammed was an evil doer..
What if it is a Muslim who has faith in Gd and that religion, but doesn't realize how evil the Koran really is...and truely believes that people like Bin Ladin and the terrorists are freaks? Does that mean that person isn't really a Muslim? How can we judge this? There are billions who consider themselves Muslim but how many realize they aren't practicing Islam if they fit the characterization that I was writing about earlier in the paragraph? Surely, not all Muslims practice deception...Some are true Muslims and want to kill all of us. Others are pretending to be moderates but really want to kill us. But I'm sure there are a bunch who don't know any better and want to live side by side..but then they really aren't Muslims...You get me?
I definately think the Koran and Islam as it really is is an evil evil evil religion..And anyone who follows it like that is really really really evil..And anyone who practices deception to pretend to be nice and moderate but really want to kill all of us or convert us is really really evil...but what about the rest who consider themselves Muslim, but may be honest decent people relatively speaking? I mean is that all of those Muslims are also trying to deceive us? Perhaps...or only just a few? or are we just being paranoid? Or am I just losing my mind? HELP ME!!!! :-[ ::)
It's simple. The burden is on them to prove they are the exception to the rule. Otherwise we must go by the majority who wishes us harm.
Lubab, help me...I know there is a Talmudic law that you can say this about an individual person...can you paraphrase for me about a nation or a whole community and where it comes from in the Torah? Thank you.
Ask Chaim that. He is very well versed in the topic of when a nation becomes an enemy nation and how the Torah deals with it.