JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: MasterWolf1 on January 02, 2008, 09:49:20 PM
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I had rabbit in Europe and horse, yes horse, Carne di Cavalo, and the rabbit is actually lighter then chicken meat, and if you eat beef and you had meat from a horse and you wouldn't know you couldn't tell the difference it taste fairly the same but the horse has I tad darker color then cow.
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I had rabbit in Europe and horse, yes horse, Carne di Cavalo, and the rabbit is actually lighter then chicken meat, and if you eat beef and you had meat from a horse and you wouldn't know you couldn't tell the difference it taste fairly the same but the horse has I tad darker color then cow.
Nothing like a Bugs Bunny lunch..eh?
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I had rabbit in Europe and horse, yes horse, Carne di Cavalo, and the rabbit is actually lighter then chicken meat, and if you eat beef and you had meat from a horse and you wouldn't know you couldn't tell the difference it taste fairly the same but the horse has I tad darker color then cow.
Nothing like a Bugs Bunny lunch..eh?
Eww, according to the Holy books, the souls of homosexuals get reincarnated into Rabbits.
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I had rabbit in Europe and horse, yes horse, Carne di Cavalo, and the rabbit is actually lighter then chicken meat, and if you eat beef and you had meat from a horse and you wouldn't know you couldn't tell the difference it taste fairly the same but the horse has I tad darker color then cow.
Nothing like a Bugs Bunny lunch..eh?
Eww, according to the Holy books, the souls of homosexuals get reincarnated into Rabbits.
Oh no...I'm going have to stick with Kermit the frog legs... :P
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I don't eat non-kosher animals, even though I'm not Jewish. If I ate some, I'd do publicly and choose those which people here feel aversion to. Why? Just because most Gentiles here feel aversion to many animals but eat pork and make fun of Jews for avoiding pork. So I'd like to see what they'd say if I ate rats, insects.... Surely they would criticize me for eating "dirty animals"!!!! And I'd reply: "Weren't you who said dietary laws are superstition and people can eat everything?"
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Well what meats sold in the US do you eat? (Kosher for Jews,,, Non Kosher for Gentiles)
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I had rabbit in Europe and horse, yes horse, Carne di Cavalo, and the rabbit is actually lighter then chicken meat, and if you eat beef and you had meat from a horse and you wouldn't know you couldn't tell the difference it taste fairly the same but the horse has I tad darker color then cow.
Nothing like a Bugs Bunny lunch..eh?
Eww, according to the Holy books, the souls of homosexuals get reincarnated into Rabbits.
I have a pet bunny you know... >:( :P ;D
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Rabbit meat taste no different then chicken in fact the meat is very lighter compared to chicken. And actually a very healthy meat.
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Frankly I don't buy this "healthy meat, non-healthy meat" nonsense (as in you are only supposed to eat the white and not the dark meat). Dark meat is tastier and richer and that's how G-d intended it to be. It has more calories, which for the vast majority of human history was a GOOD thing. Calories and saturated fat are NOT evil, boys and girls. They are a source of ENERGY--that is it.
Our real enemy is synthetic hydrogenated oils (trans fats), which cause 90% of artery disease in our country, contribute to diabetes and cancer, and belong only on the axles of your car, not in your body.
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But aren't chicken skins and fat used to make the broth for soup? Hey you guys are Jewish, where the concept came from,,,,the oldest remedy for a cold is Chicken Soup
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I differ with Chaim on this issue. Chicken skin is SUPPOSED to be tasty because it has more fat. That is part of design and basic biology. G-d knew it would be loaded with energy, so he made it extra-tasty. For most of history, mankind has been in a state of hunger, not obesity.
Calories are NOT bad unless you take in more than you burn!
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imo I'd say it's because of the fat which gives it the flavour roughly. ;)
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Alligator tongue..mmm mm delicious!
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I had rabbit in Europe and horse, yes horse, Carne di Cavalo, and the rabbit is actually lighter then chicken meat, and if you eat beef and you had meat from a horse and you wouldn't know you couldn't tell the difference it taste fairly the same but the horse has I tad darker color then cow.
Nothing like a Bugs Bunny lunch..eh?
Eww, according to the Holy books, the souls of homosexuals get reincarnated into Rabbits.
:o
Can you provide a source ? sounds intresting...
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I had rabbit in Europe and horse, yes horse, Carne di Cavalo, and the rabbit is actually lighter then chicken meat, and if you eat beef and you had meat from a horse and you wouldn't know you couldn't tell the difference it taste fairly the same but the horse has I tad darker color then cow.
Nothing like a Bugs Bunny lunch..eh?
Eww, according to the Holy books, the souls of homosexuals get reincarnated into Rabbits.
:o
Can you provide a source ? sounds intresting...
Seconded, please provide a source.
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I had rabbit in Europe and horse, yes horse, Carne di Cavalo, and the rabbit is actually lighter then chicken meat, and if you eat beef and you had meat from a horse and you wouldn't know you couldn't tell the difference it taste fairly the same but the horse has I tad darker color then cow.
Nothing like a Bugs Bunny lunch..eh?
Eww, according to the Holy books, the souls of homosexuals get reincarnated into Rabbits.
:o
Can you provide a source ? sounds intresting...
Seconded, please provide a source.
Perhaps it's the bunny rabbits who become reincarnated into Homosexuals...
It's the chicken or the egg my friends..
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I've never seen anything in the bible to suggest that re-incarnation occurs.
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I had rabbit in Europe and horse, yes horse, Carne di Cavalo, and the rabbit is actually lighter then chicken meat, and if you eat beef and you had meat from a horse and you wouldn't know you couldn't tell the difference it taste fairly the same but the horse has I tad darker color then cow.
Nothing like a Bugs Bunny lunch..eh?
Eww, according to the Holy books, the souls of homosexuals get reincarnated into Rabbits.
:o
Can you provide a source ? sounds intresting...
"One who commits the sin of homosexuality will reincarnate as a male or female rabbit,
depending on which aspect of the sin he commited."
http://koshertorah.com/PDF/arizalteshuva.pdf
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As far as I can see, all of the quotes are from the talmud which I personally do not set any store by, I see no quotes there from the tanakh.
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As far as I can see, all of the quotes are from the talmud which I personally do not set any store by, I see no quotes there from the tanakh.
I wasn't addressing you. And I personally dont need or want to prove anything to you.
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As far as I can see, all of the quotes are from the talmud which I personally do not set any store by, I see no quotes there from the tanakh.
I wasn't addressing you. And I personally dont need or want to prove anything to you.
....I was one who had asked for the information, and I was just giving my opinion, thanks for the link, sorry if I acted in an unfriendly manner.
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I had rabbit in Europe and horse, yes horse, Carne di Cavalo, and the rabbit is actually lighter then chicken meat, and if you eat beef and you had meat from a horse and you wouldn't know you couldn't tell the difference it taste fairly the same but the horse has I tad darker color then cow.
Nothing like a Bugs Bunny lunch..eh?
Eww, according to the Holy books, the souls of homosexuals get reincarnated into Rabbits.
:o
Can you provide a source ? sounds intresting...
"One who commits the sin of homosexuality will reincarnate as a male or female rabbit,
depending on which aspect of the sin he commited."
http://koshertorah.com/PDF/arizalteshuva.pdf
How do you know if someone will be a male or female rabbit?
I think the article said that the penetrator will be a male rabbit and the penetrated will be a female rabbit, it doesn't cover the idea of someone who's done both.
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Wait, reincarnated? I never knew Jews believed in Reincarnation?
Or is this not Judaism?
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Eww, according to the Holy books, the souls of homosexuals get reincarnated into Rabbits.
Can you please provide the sources where this is found?
I allready did, check one of the above posts. Sarah- the vast majority do, only a tiny minority say they dont (becuause in truth they didn't learn it, and therefor are ignorant about this subject).
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Reincarnated into this world? :o
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Reincarnated into this world? :o
The foundation for this belief is found only in the Talmud, not in the Bible, and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud, I don't think it should be trusted in any way whatsoever, Jews would of course disagree with me on this.
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Reincarnated into this world? :o
The foundation for this belief is found only in the Talmud, not in the Bible, and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud, I don't think it should be trusted in any way whatsoever, Jews would of course disagree with me on this.
Actually its found in the Kabbalah, not Talmud.
"and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud" - what do you mean by this? Is this a negative imply?
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Reincarnated into this world? :o
The foundation for this belief is found only in the Talmud, not in the Bible, and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud, I don't think it should be trusted in any way whatsoever, Jews would of course disagree with me on this.
Actually its found in the Kabbalah, not Talmud.
"and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud" - what do you mean by this? Is this a negative imply?
Sorry, I did not know of the Kabbalah, so I assumed they were Talmud quotes as they obviously weren't from the Tanakh.
And, yes, I do personally have a negative opinion of the Talmud. I do not however intend to say anything further on the matter.
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ftf, I don't think holding a negative view of the Talmud will go over well on a Jewish forum. This was uncalled for. If you have this belief, either keep it to yourself or politely state that you differ with the Talmud on this issue.
Tzvi, stop baiting him.
If you guys want to settle this, ask Chaim and see what he says on this subject.
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ftf, I don't think holding a negative view of the Talmud will go over well on a Jewish forum. This was uncalled for. If you have this belief, either keep it to yourself or politely state that you differ with the Talmud on this issue.
Tzvi, stop baiting him.
If you guys want to settle this, ask Chaim and see what he says on this subject.
I have nothing I wish to settle, the topic came up, I gave my opinion, as far as I'm concerned, issue closed, unless someone wants to make something of it.
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Spotted owl... mm mm mm mm
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Just something I wanted to share with my fellow Jews on the topic on Talmud and Rabbis.
http://www.torahanytime.com/rav_mizrachi.html
01/21/07 "The Power of our Sages"
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eh, life as a rabbit is simple..not the end of the world..
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Reincarnated into this world? :o
The foundation for this belief is found only in the Talmud, not in the Bible, and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud, I don't think it should be trusted in any way whatsoever, Jews would of course disagree with me on this.
Actually its found in the Kabbalah, not Talmud.
"and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud" - what do you mean by this? Is this a negative imply?
I think no one here as a right to comment about the Kabbalah unless they are a Torah and Talmud scholar over a certain age, a male, and married with children...
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Reincarnated into this world? :o
The foundation for this belief is found only in the Talmud, not in the Bible, and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud, I don't think it should be trusted in any way whatsoever, Jews would of course disagree with me on this.
Actually its found in the Kabbalah, not Talmud.
"and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud" - what do you mean by this? Is this a negative imply?
I think no one here as a right to comment about the Kabbalah unless they are a Torah and Talmud scholar over a certain age, a male, and married with children...
If you are going to apply that kind of logic to your holy books, it should be applied to everyone's holy books, that would mean that we can't comment about the Quran or Hadiths either.
The very idea you are suggesting makes no sense, if a book contains information from God intended for people, God will have made sure the people can understand it.
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eh, life as a rabbit is simple..not the end of the world..
Is that a confession? (just joking, I hope your not). But anyway, its not because who said that its just one time, it could be many many times until if you merit it you then have a chance to again become a Jew (if you merit it and dont loose your shot), and then when one completes his mission then he can merit his place in the world to come.
Either way a Jew is obligated- step #0 before anything to start learning Torah. then afterwards understand his mission and what he needs to do.
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Reincarnated into this world? :o
The foundation for this belief is found only in the Talmud, not in the Bible, and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud, I don't think it should be trusted in any way whatsoever, Jews would of course disagree with me on this.
Actually its found in the Kabbalah, not Talmud.
"and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud" - what do you mean by this? Is this a negative imply?
I think no one here as a right to comment about the Kabbalah unless they are a Torah and Talmud scholar over a certain age, a male, and married with children...
Maybe you are partially right, but that would be in a situation where if someone derives his own meaning and lesson/ thought based on Kabbalah, but if just quoting and giving over something that is public knowledge then its not a problem and actually something great if one gets Jews to learn some Torah.
Besides that yes some things in Kabbalah is not good to be learnt by an am Haaretz (someone who doesn't know anything/much), for example some Meditations and Holy names and other things where one might become crazy if one goes into it too quick and without the proper guidence.
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I agree with Chaimfan and Yacov.
FTF, it's not a good idea to say on a Jewish forum that you don't care for the Talmud. And Yacov is right about the Kabbalah. It's not meant to be studied by young beginners who would take the material out of context.
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Reincarnated into this world? :o
The foundation for this belief is found only in the Talmud, not in the Bible, and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud, I don't think it should be trusted in any way whatsoever, Jews would of course disagree with me on this.
Actually its found in the Kabbalah, not Talmud.
"and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud" - what do you mean by this? Is this a negative imply?
I think no one here as a right to comment about the Kabbalah unless they are a Torah and Talmud scholar over a certain age, a male, and married with children...
If you are going to apply that kind of logic to your holy books, it should be applied to everyone's holy books, that would mean that we can't comment about the Quran or Hadiths either.
The very idea you are suggesting makes no sense, if a book contains information from G-d intended for people, G-d will have made sure the people can understand it.
Actually FTF, i don't think you understand where the Kabalah comes from...It's a very deep secret text...those who do not understand the talmud and torah fully will never accurately understand the kabalah..that includes me as well..and a lot of religious Jews too...So just letting you know. The kabala is very very deep...VERY DEEP...
The Koran is not deep..it's plagarized made up stuff...
so don't get me wrong..
The bunny-homosexuality comment in regards to what might be written in teh kaballa is not meant for me, tzvi, Chaim, TANIA or anyone else here to comment on..we are by no means any where close to be deserving in interpreting what was meant by what written about it if it was written
Got it?
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ftf, I resent your insulting remarks against the Talmud, which you know absolutely nothing about. Your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance. I am not going to get into a religious debate with you here, even though I could easily win the debate, and by the end of the debate, you would be seriously doubting your own beliefs.
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Good comments from everybody. ftf, what you said was extremely insensitive, and you really upset Chaim (who NEVER goes off like this on JTF members). I think you owe the Jews of the forum an apology.
Dr. Dan is right. It is not the place of us Gentiles to judge Jewish holy books. If someone dissents from a Torahic/Talmudic teaching, they should either bite their tongue or find a respectful way to state it. I have a pet rabbit, and haven't ever quite heard before that she may have been a homosexual in a previous life (nor do I know how to respond to that), but I have no right--and no reason--to insult Judaism's holiest texts just because I can't accept it.
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I do get angered when people rip Christianity. That's why I understand how everyone feels now about him dissing the Talmud.
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Heh, off topic, I wonder if I should change my ferret avatar to another one besides the ferret with the rabbit ears? lol I don't want people to think I have a reincarnated gay ferret in my posts. :::D
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He didn't just state his beliefs, Ruby. He said the Talmud is worthless or something like that. There was no reason for him to insult Judaism like that.
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But Noahide laws are included within all that Christianity holds true. You can be a non-Noahide (as I am) and still support Noahide laws.
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ftf, I resent your insulting remarks against the Talmud, which you know absolutely nothing about. Your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance. I am not going to get into a religious debate with you here, even though I could easily win the debate, and by the end of the debate, you would be seriously doubting your own beliefs.
Arrogance? Ignorance? All I said is that some components of the Talmud give me a negative opinion of it. I would not say that if I did not have something to back it up, but as it is not something I really want to debate here, I have no intention of going into any detail. I do not think I am being particularly arrogant, you do not call me arrogant or ignorant when I tear Islamic texts apart, and if you look at my posts about them, you will see that I always back up my arguments in great detail, as I have not seen any Jews doing anything that I believe needs to be opposed based on what is written in Jewish scriptures, I see no need to attack them, but as a Christian, I cannot personally hold them (Jewish texts) in a positive light. I have no wish for a debate between us, but if you wish to have one, I have no doubt that I could tear you apart, I may be but 17, but I have been in many religious debates, and I have never lost even a single point in any of them.
I have no intention of causing upset or insult, and if I have done so I apologise, but surely, in a forum in which people follow different faiths, it is obvious that their views will differ. If we behave in a grown up manner, though, we should be able to accept our differing and work together for he common good.
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eh, life as a rabbit is simple..not the end of the world..
Is that a confession? (just joking, I hope your not). But anyway, its not because who said that its just one time, it could be many many times until if you merit it you then have a chance to again become a Jew (if you merit it and dont loose your shot), and then when one completes his mission then he can merit his place in the world to come.
Either way a Jew is obligated- step #0 before anything to start learning Torah. then afterwards understand his mission and what he needs to do.
What if it were a confession, CF? You would have a gay homosexual who is pro JTF...now what? What if it was someone you cared about?
chaim actually answered a quuestion about this a year ago..that if Gd forbid, a child of ours was gay or had tendencies, we shoudl help him and be compassionate...But we shoudl not tolerate teh behavior itself.
For the record, I'm as straight as can be...:)
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Reincarnated into this world? :o
The foundation for this belief is found only in the Talmud, not in the Bible, and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud, I don't think it should be trusted in any way whatsoever, Jews would of course disagree with me on this.
Actually its found in the Kabbalah, not Talmud.
"and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud" - what do you mean by this? Is this a negative imply?
I think no one here as a right to comment about the Kabbalah unless they are a Torah and Talmud scholar over a certain age, a male, and married with children...
Maybe you are partially right, but that would be in a situation where if someone derives his own meaning and lesson/ thought based on Kabbalah, but if just quoting and giving over something that is public knowledge then its not a problem and actually something great if one gets Jews to learn some Torah.
Besides that yes some things in Kabbalah is not good to be learnt by an am Haaretz (someone who doesn't know anything/much), for example some Meditations and Holy names and other things where one might become crazy if one goes into it too quick and without the proper guidence.
It's ok to quote stuff, but if you aren't a kabbalist, you have to put on the disclaimer that it is just a quote and that the meaning is completely complicated that you nor anyone who isn't a torah and talmud scholar over the age of 46 or 50 and not married nor has children can really interpret it properly.
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ftf, I resent your insulting remarks against the Talmud, which you know absolutely nothing about. Your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance. I am not going to get into a religious debate with you here, even though I could easily win the debate, and by the end of the debate, you would be seriously doubting your own beliefs.
Arrogance? Ignorance? All I said is that some components of the Talmud give me a negative opinion of it. I would not say that if I did not have something to back it up, but as it is not something I really want to debate here, I have no intention of going into any detail. I do not think I am being particularly arrogant, you do not call me arrogant or ignorant when I tear Islamic texts apart, and if you look at my posts about them, you will see that I always back up my arguments in great detail, as I have not seen any Jews doing anything that I believe needs to be opposed based on what is written in Jewish scriptures, I see no need to attack them, but as a Christian, I cannot personally hold them (Jewish texts) in a positive light. I have no wish for a debate between us, but if you wish to have one, I have no doubt that I could tear you apart, I may be but 17, but I have been in many religious debates, and I have never lost even a single point in any of them.
I have no intention of causing upset or insult, and if I have done so I apologise, but surely, in a forum in which people follow different faiths, it is obvious that their views will differ. If we behave in a grown up manner, though, we should be able to accept our differing and work together for he common good.
I woudl love to see a debate between you and Chaim!
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ftf, I resent your insulting remarks against the Talmud, which you know absolutely nothing about. Your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance. I am not going to get into a religious debate with you here, even though I could easily win the debate, and by the end of the debate, you would be seriously doubting your own beliefs.
Arrogance? Ignorance? All I said is that some components of the Talmud give me a negative opinion of it. I would not say that if I did not have something to back it up, but as it is not something I really want to debate here, I have no intention of going into any detail. I do not think I am being particularly arrogant, you do not call me arrogant or ignorant when I tear Islamic texts apart, and if you look at my posts about them, you will see that I always back up my arguments in great detail, as I have not seen any Jews doing anything that I believe needs to be opposed based on what is written in Jewish scriptures, I see no need to attack them, but as a Christian, I cannot personally hold them (Jewish texts) in a positive light. I have no wish for a debate between us, but if you wish to have one, I have no doubt that I could tear you apart, I may be but 17, but I have been in many religious debates, and I have never lost even a single point in any of them.
I have no intention of causing upset or insult, and if I have done so I apologise, but surely, in a forum in which people follow different faiths, it is obvious that their views will differ. If we behave in a grown up manner, though, we should be able to accept our differing and work together for he common good.
I woudl love to see a debate between you and Chaim!
I have no wish whatsoever to have such a debate. I thought the idea of JTF was that we would ignore our differences and work together to oppose common threats such as Islam.
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you wrote "I have no wish for a debate between us, but if you wish to have one, I have no doubt that I could tear you apart, I may be but 17, but I have been in many religious debates, and I have never lost even a single point in any of them."
Them fightin' words. I'm not suggesting doing it in public on this forum for those who dont' want to listen to it. But if you're calling chaim out, and the two of you decide to do it in private, let me know..I would love to watch.
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FTF, you are WAY out of line here! I don't care if you follow the Talmud or not. But you do not come on a Jewish forum and say you have a negative opinion about one of Judaism's holiest books! And don't you dare try and back away from your fighting words by saying you don't want to cause trouble. I have news for you, FTF. You already have!
Let me refresh your selective memory:
The foundation for this belief is found only in the Talmud, not in the Bible, and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud, I don't think it should be trusted in any way whatsoever, Jews would of course disagree with me on this.
Now I'm an admin here, and I don't see the Jews saying that the NT should not be trusted whatsoever. We don't follow its teachings, but no one here would be so stupid or tactless to post such an insulting comment!
And you continue:
And, yes, I do personally have a negative opinion of the Talmud. I do not however intend to say anything further on the matter.
I really don't care what you personally think of the Talmud. You are entitled to your opinion. But you don't come here and make such incendiary remarks, and then say you don't want to discuss it or cause trouble. You already have caused trouble!
I have nothing I wish to settle, the topic came up, I gave my opinion, as far as I'm concerned, issue closed, unless someone wants to make something of it.
Don't even think of worming your way out of this one!
Arrogance? Ignorance? All I said is that some components of the Talmud give me a negative opinion of it. I would not say that if I did not have something to back it up, but as it is not something I really want to debate here, I have no intention of going into any detail. I do not think I am being particularly arrogant, you do not call me arrogant or ignorant when I tear Islamic texts apart, and if you look at my posts about them, you will see that I always back up my arguments in great detail, as I have not seen any Jews doing anything that I believe needs to be opposed based on what is written in Jewish scriptures, I see no need to attack them, but as a Christian, I cannot personally hold them (Jewish texts) in a positive light. I have no wish for a debate between us, but if you wish to have one, I have no doubt that I could tear you apart, I may be but 17, but I have been in many religious debates, and I have never lost even a single point in any of them.
HOW DARE YOU threaten to tear apart dear Chaim! Would you ever go as a guest to a Jewish person's home, and make the comments you made here, then threaten to tear apart your host? Well I have news for you, FTF. This is Chaim's home on the web. He pays for the hosting fees, and what he says goes!
I have no intention of causing upset or insult, and if I have done so I apologise, but surely, in a forum in which people follow different faiths, it is obvious that their views will differ. If we behave in a grown up manner, though, we should be able to accept our differing and work together for he common good.
Oh spare me that line about working together for the common good! That only applies to people who are respectful, which you, clearly are not!
Now people, you know that I am for the most part very calm and easy going on this forum. But this is the last straw. You either apologize to Chaim and every Jew here, or I'll ban you myself!
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I really had no intention of causing all of this upset, so, to address what Lisa has raised:
When I refer to tearing someone apart, I mean winning a debate against them, as in tearing up their points by picking logical holes in them, I do not mean anything physical.
From what I have seen of the Talmud it contains many expressly anti-Christian comments, and refers to Jesus Christ as a sorcerer, as being illegitimate, as burning in hell, and many other things, this is the basis for my negative opinion of the Talmud, if I have been deceived in some way and it truly does not say such things, I am sorry for having spoke negatively of it. If it does say these things, (I have seen quotes, so unless someone has falsified these quotes, it does), I can not be a Christian unless I am negative about it.
If you think that no one here is so negative about Christianity, you've been rather selective in which topics you've read...
Now if you want to ban me, don't bother, I will consider myself banned from now on and will not make another post unless I receive permission from you or another admin, I came here to fight Islam, but I refuse to throw away my faith in order to do so it is more important to me than my life.
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FTF, of course I realize you did not mean physically tearing Chaim apart. But still, that language is very insulting. And once again, I doubt you would go as a guest in the home of a Jew and address your host using such language.
Now regarding the Talmud, I have not read it, so I can't say what the book does or doesn't say about Jesus. On the other hand, I have been told there are passages in the NT that can be construed as being anti-Jewish. But so what? Does that mean I'm going to go around acting like a victim and saying I can't be a Jew unless I criticize the NT? No! We don't want to go there.
As for my selective memory, there is a big difference between some people being sceptical about working with non-Jews, vs. someone openly belittling the religious texts of a different faith. So while the leadership of JTF welcomes righteous gentiles in its movement, we do not tolerate having our holy books belittled, or having a member threaten to tear apart our leader.
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All I wanted to know was for Non Kosher food for Gentiles on this thread and anarchy breaks out??? LOL SHeesh
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From what I have seen of the Talmud it contains many expressly anti-Christian comments, and refers to Jesus Christ as a sorcerer, as being illegitimate, as burning in hell, and many other things, this is the basis for my negative opinion of the Talmud, if I have been deceived in some way and it truly does not say such things, I am sorry for having spoke negatively of it. If it does say these things, (I have seen quotes, so unless someone has falsified these quotes, it does), I can not be a Christian unless I am negative about it.
If you think that no one here is so negative about Christianity, you've been rather selective in which topics you've read...
ftf,
Keep on studying the Talmud vs. New Testament vs Kkkoran, then ask questions about it, then make your conclusions.
I think you still have a long way to go. But you really know already a lot for a young man.
did you think about this?
Maybe the New Testament is full of expressely anti-Jewish comments?
Maybe that's why Jews have been murdered defending their faith during the centuries in Diaspora?
Maybe that's why Jews have been murdered defending their nation/culture/history in the Nazi-camps?
Maybe that's why your comments are inevitably way out of line?
You say defending your faith is more important than your life.
I think you can take an example of the Jewish members of this forum.
All their ancestors for millennia have been doing that.
Do we want to loose the battle against our common enemies??
Do you want the Christians to betray on the Jews and Israel, so that HAMAS will drive them in the sea, before they come to eradicate us??
Mustn't the 2000 year old divisions be ignored, after all what history teaches us?
Everybody is doing some water in the wine, so we Christians are supposed to equally respect Jewish beliefs, as they respect ours.
That doesn't mean agree, just respect somebody with another opinion.
Even if there are posts that criticise Jesus, you should refrain from starting fighting over it.
Because the main purpose is to work together, to fight together, and who knows god forbid, to die together.
In order to respect someone's opinion, you have to study the basics where this opinion is based on.
Or at least make an attempt.
Citing quotes, isn't good enough. If you want to debate this, you need to do your homework.
Otherwise, you keep quiet.
In my opinion, you still have a bright future before you.
Just learn you cannot attack the leader of the organisation like that.
In any company, you'd be fired.
In the house of a muslim, you 'd be cut into pieces.
so ? Isn't this house tolerant?
What's it going to be? You choose for division, or for coalition?
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I do not like people saying how I have to have my beliefs and I don't think its fair ftf that Christians do the same with Jews. We all have our beliefs. Grant it I am not too familiar witht he Talmud as I am with the Christian Bible, but thats fine. I am not going to slander their beliefs cause it is different then what I was taught by the nuns in school.
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ftf- you dont even need Chaim to debate- if you are so confident then watch and answer to me these questions presented http://www.torahanytime.com/rav_mizrachi.html
"The Debate - Rabbi vs. Christian Part 1 and2" (I dont know maybe you are smarter then that missionary, and smarter then the previous pope and other priests who couldn't answer thse questions.)- (P.S.- if the admins dont want this public then you could P.M. me with your answers if you have any).
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ftf, you are absolutely out of control. You are acting exactly like Anus-T.
Give us one good reason not to ban you.
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From what I have seen of the Talmud it contains many expressly anti-Christian comments, and refers to Jesus Christ as a sorcerer, as being illegitimate, as burning in hell, and many other things, this is the basis for my negative opinion of the Talmud, if I have been deceived in some way and it truly does not say such things, I am sorry for having spoke negatively of it. If it does say these things, (I have seen quotes, so unless someone has falsified these quotes, it does), I can not be a Christian unless I am negative about it.
You were most likely reading Anti-Semitic websites about Talmud "quotes". When The Talmud mentions Yeshu, it isn't referring to Jesus, because the Yeshu in question lived much earlier than the time of Jesus.
That is maybe somethinf the YouTube crowd should be informed about!
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Maybe the New Testament is full of expressely anti-Jewish comments?
Maybe that's why Jews have been murdered defending their faith during the centuries in Diaspora?
Maybe that's why Jews have been murdered defending their nation/culture/history in the Nazi-camps?
Maybe that's why your comments are inevitably way out of line?
FTF should know all about this because he is Jewish since since his mother's mother herself was a Jew who survived The Holocaust. This is how he treats his own people? His ancestors that died for Judaism would be ashamed of him.
FTF is only 17...how is it that his mother was a survivor of the Shoah unless she gave birth to him when she was 50..or her late 40's
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Maybe the New Testament is full of expressely anti-Jewish comments?
Maybe that's why Jews have been murdered defending their faith during the centuries in Diaspora?
Maybe that's why Jews have been murdered defending their nation/culture/history in the Nazi-camps?
Maybe that's why your comments are inevitably way out of line?
FTF should know all about this because he is Jewish since since his mother's mother herself was a Jew who survived The Holocaust. This is how he treats his own people? His ancestors that died for Judaism would be ashamed of him.
FTF is only 17...how is it that his mother was a survivor of the Shoah unless she gave birth to him when she was 50..or her late 40's
I said his mother's mother, not his mother.
oops
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FTF should know all about this because he is Jewish since since his mother's mother herself was a Jew who survived The Holocaust. This is how he treats his own people? His ancestors that died for Judaism would be ashamed of him.
Yacov have you ever thought what a stupid statement.
Can I ask you, have you family member that was in the Holocaust?
Not one of ftf's ancestors would be ashamed of him.
I am shocked you would even use that as a weapon against a fellow Jew.
:-\
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The following is an easy solution:
Somebody proves to ftf that there is no reason for him to detest these Holy Writings of Judaism which he has taken offence to.
Could we ask Lubab in the Torah section?
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FTF should know all about this because he is Jewish since since his mother's mother herself was a Jew who survived The Holocaust. This is how he treats his own people? His ancestors that died for Judaism would be ashamed of him.
Yacov have you ever thought what a stupid statement.
Can I ask you, have you family member that was in the Holocaust?
Not one of ftf's ancestors would be ashamed of him.
I am shocked you would even use that as a weapon against a fellow Jew.
:-\
I know FTF chooses to call himself a Christian, fine, but FTF needs to learn a little kavod--honor for the 3000 years of tradition that his ancestors died for, instead of making a totally ignorant and arrogant statement based on the stupid websites that he's visiting.
exactly. I'd like to emphasise that respect for your ancestors is a requirement for Jews and Christians.
Falsify this statement, if my assumption is wrong.
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FTF should know all about this because he is Jewish since since his mother's mother herself was a Jew who survived The Holocaust. This is how he treats his own people? His ancestors that died for Judaism would be ashamed of him.
Yacov have you ever thought what a stupid statement.
Can I ask you, have you family member that was in the Holocaust?
Not one of ftf's ancestors would be ashamed of him.
I am shocked you would even use that as a weapon against a fellow Jew.
:-\
I know FTF chooses to call himself a Christian, fine, but FTF needs to learn a little kavod--honor for the 3000 years of tradition that his ancestors died for, instead of making a totally ignorant and arrogant statement based on the stupid websites that he's visiting.
There is ways and means, and that statement Yacov made I think is unforgivable.
I don't care what ftf thinks he is or claims.
There are limits.
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Limits have been overstepped on both sides. Can we all be mature please.
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skippy dont attach Yakov. The fact remains what it is. First of all I didnt even know that ftf was Jewish (we still dont know because who said that his mothers mother was Halahically Jewish, maybe yes maybe no), but assuming she was, if she died or went through the holocaust becuase she was a Jew, then of-course she would be ashamed and disappointed at her offspring who went agains't Judaism (if knowingly), fact is that throughout history most Jews would have preferred their children slaughtered in front of them, then instead of going agains't Judaism. So assuming she was an average Jewish lady, then of course she would have been ashamed.
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I am not attacking Yacov as a person, just using that statement I find highly offensive, regardless of who had written it, I would of said the same thing.
You all know I have deep respect of Yacov.
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Hey folks,
Can we please leave FTF's grandparents and parents out of this?
After all, they're not really the issue. Let me remind you that the issue is FTF's insensitive, belittling comments about the Talmud. Nothing else.
Like I wrote earlier, I have not read the Talmud. So I don't know what is does, or doesn't say about Jesus. But I find it interesting that the only people who criticize it are white nationalist neo nazis and Muslims. How is it that Pat Robertson, and others like him don't have such complaints. Sure they don't follow it. But I've never heard of them complaining about how "evil" it is. Still for those of you who are curious, asking Lubab would be a good idea. But ultimately that's not the real issue either.
Every religion teaches that theirs is the correct path. The New Testament has parts that can be construed as being anti-semitic. And there have been past Christian leaders who have made anti-Jewish comments. So what? Most Jews don't hate Chrisitians over that or wish them ill. They certainly don't go around acting like victims over it. And that is especially why I found FTF's comment offensive.
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I had agreed not to make any more posts until this issue was resolved, however, considering what has been posted here, I have requested and been granted permission to defend myself.
As my ancestry has been brought up, allow me to clarify, my mother's mother fled Germany to escape the holocaust, she was not a practising Jew, but she had Jewish blood, her mother, died in the gas chambers, she also was not a practising Jew, but had Jewish blood, I do not know anything about her parents though, so I cannot go any further back.
Also to clarify, I believe that Israel belongs to the Jews, and as a Christian I believe that I should think of Jews as close family members (this comes from the NT), and therefore as they are close family members, I should help them hold onto and protect their land.
Now, regarding what I said of the Talmud, all I said is that I have a negative opinion of it, I said this as it came up in the topic, I did not intend this as any kind of attack, this opinion could well be misplaced, if someone would like to prove that it is, I ask that they provide a link to what is in their opinion a reliable English translation of it, I do not ask for any arguments about it, just link me to a copy you would call accurate, and let me see if my opinion is misplaced, if it is, I will apologise for having stated that I have a negative opinion of it.
I would like to add that I am sorry if anything I have said on this issue has been personally insulting to anyone, I have not intended to be so, and if I have been I am truly sorry.
I would also like to add, that I consider the way that many members of this forum have spoken of me regarding this unacceptable, and considering the other things I could be putting the time to that I put to posting here, I will be leaving this forum if certain people do not apologise to me.
Unless this issue is cleared up in a positive manner, this will be my final post in this forum.
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I agree with what Lisa wrote all the way!
Besides, when it comes to these issues, I was once a Christian so I understand it better than if I had never been one.
I just don't think the Talmud should have even been mentioned at all, I mean why was it even mentioned anyways? All I know is that currently many muslim and other nazi groups go around posting attacks against it. They make up quotes or twist others and then post them in books or online and say "SEE, SEE it's in their Talmud!". I also think people must be sensitive to the matter. I am not a Talmud expert and I never will, and others (including me) should should not mention it if we don't really know it. It is something that those who do, make a serious study of it, not alone but with either a partner or a class.
I do invite you, FTF, to hear a free lecture about the attacks against the Talmud .
Here is what the website says:
Does the Talmud Condone Murder, Pedophilia, and Idolatry?
In a shocking assault on Judaism, anti-Semitic groups make a forceful argument that the Talmud, the sacred compendium of the Oral Torah, advocates the vilest crimes known to man. Tragically, these despicable allegations are made by both Christian and Moslem anti-Semites. How is it possible to slander this revered tome which contains the sacred moral foundation of the Jewish faith? In this eye-opening presentation, Rabbi Singer steps forward to expose some of the most vicious and deceptive charges made against the sages of Israel . He demonstrates how statement in the Talmud are manipulated and misquoted by anti-Semites in order to slander the children of Israel.
Download
Listen Order
Here's the link:
http://outreachjudaism.org/mp3/Attack%20on%20Talmud.mp3 (http://outreachjudaism.org/mp3/Attack%20on%20Talmud.mp3)
If that doesn't work try this one:
(You will have to scroll all the way down. Its the second to the last lecture.http://www.outreachjudaism.org/biblical.html# (http://www.outreachjudaism.org/biblical.html#)
ok, thanks for the link to it. ;)
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I had agreed not to make any more posts until this issue was resolved, however, considering what has been posted here, I have requested and been granted permission to defend myself.
As my ancestry has been brought up, allow me to clarify, my mother's mother fled Germany to escape the holocaust, she was not a practising Jew, but she had Jewish blood, her mother, died in the gas chambers, she also was not a practising Jew, but had Jewish blood, I do not know anything about her parents though, so I cannot go any further back.
Also to clarify, I believe that Israel belongs to the Jews, and as a Christian I believe that I should think of Jews as close family members (this comes from the NT), and therefore as they are close family members, I should help them hold onto and protect their land.
Now, regarding what I said of the Talmud, all I said is that I have a negative opinion of it, I said this as it came up in the topic, I did not intend this as any kind of attack, this opinion could well be misplaced, if someone would like to prove that it is, I ask that they provide a link to what is in their opinion a reliable English translation of it, I do not ask for any arguments about it, just link me to a copy you would call accurate, and let me see if my opinion is misplaced, if it is, I will apologise for having stated that I have a negative opinion of it.
I would like to add that I am sorry if anything I have said on this issue has been personally insulting to anyone, I have not intended to be so, and if I have been I am truly sorry.
I would also like to add, that I consider the way that many members of this forum have spoken of me regarding this unacceptable, and considering the other things I could be putting the time to that I put to posting here, I will be leaving this forum if certain people do not apologise to me.
Unless this issue is cleared up in a positive manner, this will be my final post in this forum.
Personally, FTF, for what it's worth, I forgive you. I would like to add, however, that it would be a good idea, when you have the opportunity in college to a take course, if available, about Talmud and read some of it and learn about it. From what I have read so far, it is quite an amazing text made by human beings so wise and ahead of their time. The type of logic and arguements is astounding!!! I think there is no text out there created by human beings that can come even close to what is written in the Talmud. There are certain conclusions that people today make of what the Rabbis back then concluded that i might disagree with, but that's it..it doesn't make me right or wrong to simply disagree or have a different opinion...We are all mortal and are capable of making mistakes with our interpretations of books made by wise people..and books inspired by Gd's finger. So, I do appreciate your apology and I, for one, forgive you. But when you head to college, look for a course about Talmud and at least get a sample of what this amazing book says. I'm not telling you to become an expert in it or a rabbi or convert or anything. I just want you to see what it is.
The Kabbala on the other hand is meant to be a secret. I personally will not go near it or draw any type of conclusion on it except for the fact that it is very very very deep and that I will leave it to the righteous experts to study it. The Kabballa is not the way to go if one is devoid of Torah AND Talmud...You have to start with knowing Torah really well first...and then knowing Talmud really well second..than you need to be 40 years old, married, and with children and then you can learn Kabballa and know its true deep meaning.
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Reincarnated into this world? :o
The foundation for this belief is found only in the Talmud, not in the Bible, and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud, I don't think it should be trusted in any way whatsoever, Jews would of course disagree with me on this.
Actually its found in the Kabbalah, not Talmud.
"and considering some of the other things that can be found in the Talmud" - what do you mean by this? Is this a negative imply?
I think no one here as a right to comment about the Kabbalah unless they are a Torah and Talmud scholar over a certain age, a male, and married with children...
If you are going to apply that kind of logic to your holy books, it should be applied to everyone's holy books, that would mean that we can't comment about the Quran or Hadiths either.
The very idea you are suggesting makes no sense, if a book contains information from G-d intended for people, G-d will have made sure the people can understand it.
Not so.
Just as novice priests don't learn rights of exorcism and 7th grade physics students don't learn the Theory of Relativity, novice Torah schollars don't learn Kabbalah. These higher aspects require solid grounding in the fundamentals before they can be effectively tackled.
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FTF are you aiming for the Shahid Oscar Award or something?
It is obvious that Christians follow only the NT, whereas the Jews follow the Torah and the Talmud. So if you didn't want to start an argument about the Talmud, you should have just kept your mouth shut. But to keep on repeating that you don't want an argument after making several belittling comments about our holy book is just plain hostile and passive aggressive. And you didn't even leave it at that! You then put the onus on all of us to defend our faith! So you can just stop acting like a victim this minute! Your martyr routine is getting very old, and you will not win your Shahid Oscar award here!
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I had agreed not to make any more posts until this issue was resolved, however, considering what has been posted here, I have requested and been granted permission to defend myself.
As my ancestry has been brought up, allow me to clarify, my mother's mother fled Germany to escape the holocaust, she was not a practising Jew, but she had Jewish blood, her mother, died in the gas chambers, she also was not a practising Jew, but had Jewish blood, I do not know anything about her parents though, so I cannot go any further back.
Also to clarify, I believe that Israel belongs to the Jews, and as a Christian I believe that I should think of Jews as close family members (this comes from the NT), and therefore as they are close family members, I should help them hold onto and protect their land.
Now, regarding what I said of the Talmud, all I said is that I have a negative opinion of it, I said this as it came up in the topic, I did not intend this as any kind of attack, this opinion could well be misplaced, if someone would like to prove that it is, I ask that they provide a link to what is in their opinion a reliable English translation of it, I do not ask for any arguments about it, just link me to a copy you would call accurate, and let me see if my opinion is misplaced, if it is, I will apologise for having stated that I have a negative opinion of it.
I would like to add that I am sorry if anything I have said on this issue has been personally insulting to anyone, I have not intended to be so, and if I have been I am truly sorry.
I would also like to add, that I consider the way that many members of this forum have spoken of me regarding this unacceptable, and considering the other things I could be putting the time to that I put to posting here, I will be leaving this forum if certain people do not apologise to me.
Unless this issue is cleared up in a positive manner, this will be my final post in this forum.
Personally, FTF, for what it's worth, I forgive you. I would like to add, however, that it would be a good idea, when you have the opportunity in college to a take course, if available, about Talmud and read some of it and learn about it. From what I have read so far, it is quite an amazing text made by human beings so wise and ahead of their time. The type of logic and arguements is astounding!!! I think there is no text out there created by human beings that can come even close to what is written in the Talmud. There are certain conclusions that people today make of what the Rabbis back then concluded that i might disagree with, but that's it..it doesn't make me right or wrong to simply disagree or have a different opinion...We are all mortal and are capable of making mistakes with our interpretations of books made by wise people..and books inspired by Gd's finger. So, I do appreciate your apology and I, for one, forgive you. But when you head to college, look for a course about Talmud and at least get a sample of what this amazing book says. I'm not telling you to become an expert in it or a rabbi or convert or anything. I just want you to see what it is.
The Kabbala on the other hand is meant to be a secret. I personally will not go near it or draw any type of conclusion on it except for the fact that it is very very very deep and that I will leave it to the righteous experts to study it. The Kabballa is not the way to go if one is devoid of Torah AND Talmud...You have to start with knowing Torah really well first...and then knowing Talmud really well second..than you need to be 40 years old, married, and with children and then you can learn Kabballa and know its true deep meaning.
Yea finding a Talmud Torah class in College. ::) , College and Torah rarly go hand in hand and of they did have a course in Judaism its allmost allways distorted and taught by some haskala moran. (except this one guy in Queens College- named professor Acker, who actually is and was a great teacher). Anyway in College as I know, one needs to know at least basic Hebrew to get into a class like that when its rarly available. If one wants to know some of the wisdom of the Talmud, one either can go to a Yeshiva learn with some people who can translate or some online. Anyway the Talmud has soo much Divine wisdom, and even science and other things that people only discovered centuries later (and actually took credit for themselves).
Maybe I will post some of the Divine information that is written in the Talmud.
ex- The cure for rabbies was written in the Talmud, also Halies commet, also the exact # of stars in the Universe, electricity, and many more things.
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I had agreed not to make any more posts until this issue was resolved, however, considering what has been posted here, I have requested and been granted permission to defend myself.
As my ancestry has been brought up, allow me to clarify, my mother's mother fled Germany to escape the holocaust, she was not a practising Jew, but she had Jewish blood, her mother, died in the gas chambers, she also was not a practising Jew, but had Jewish blood, I do not know anything about her parents though, so I cannot go any further back.
Also to clarify, I believe that Israel belongs to the Jews, and as a Christian I believe that I should think of Jews as close family members (this comes from the NT), and therefore as they are close family members, I should help them hold onto and protect their land.
Now, regarding what I said of the Talmud, all I said is that I have a negative opinion of it, I said this as it came up in the topic, I did not intend this as any kind of attack, this opinion could well be misplaced, if someone would like to prove that it is, I ask that they provide a link to what is in their opinion a reliable English translation of it, I do not ask for any arguments about it, just link me to a copy you would call accurate, and let me see if my opinion is misplaced, if it is, I will apologise for having stated that I have a negative opinion of it.
I would like to add that I am sorry if anything I have said on this issue has been personally insulting to anyone, I have not intended to be so, and if I have been I am truly sorry.
I would also like to add, that I consider the way that many members of this forum have spoken of me regarding this unacceptable, and considering the other things I could be putting the time to that I put to posting here, I will be leaving this forum if certain people do not apologise to me.
Unless this issue is cleared up in a positive manner, this will be my final post in this forum.
Personally, FTF, for what it's worth, I forgive you. I would like to add, however, that it would be a good idea, when you have the opportunity in college to a take course, if available, about Talmud and read some of it and learn about it. From what I have read so far, it is quite an amazing text made by human beings so wise and ahead of their time. The type of logic and arguements is astounding!!! I think there is no text out there created by human beings that can come even close to what is written in the Talmud. There are certain conclusions that people today make of what the Rabbis back then concluded that i might disagree with, but that's it..it doesn't make me right or wrong to simply disagree or have a different opinion...We are all mortal and are capable of making mistakes with our interpretations of books made by wise people..and books inspired by Gd's finger. So, I do appreciate your apology and I, for one, forgive you. But when you head to college, look for a course about Talmud and at least get a sample of what this amazing book says. I'm not telling you to become an expert in it or a rabbi or convert or anything. I just want you to see what it is.
The Kabbala on the other hand is meant to be a secret. I personally will not go near it or draw any type of conclusion on it except for the fact that it is very very very deep and that I will leave it to the righteous experts to study it. The Kabballa is not the way to go if one is devoid of Torah AND Talmud...You have to start with knowing Torah really well first...and then knowing Talmud really well second..than you need to be 40 years old, married, and with children and then you can learn Kabballa and know its true deep meaning.
Yea finding a Talmud Torah class in College. ::) , College and Torah rarly go hand in hand and of they did have a course in Judaism its allmost allways distorted and taught by some haskala moran. (except this one guy in Queens College- named professor Acker, who actually is and was a great teacher). Anyway in College as I know, one needs to know at least basic Hebrew to get into a class like that when its rarly available. If one wants to know some of the wisdom of the Talmud, one either can go to a Yeshiva learn with some people who can translate or some online. Anyway the Talmud has soo much Divine wisdom, and even science and other things that people only discovered centuries later (and actually took credit for themselves).
Maybe I will post some of the Divine information that is written in the Talmud.
ex- The cure for rabbies was written in the Talmud, also Halies commet, also the exact # of stars in the Universe, electricity, and many more things.
Actually, I went to Drew University and in the relgious post grad program they had an intro course on Talmud. It was taught by a Christian attempting to be like the early Christians were really Jews, but believed Jesus was the Messiah...but nevertheless, for someone like me, who knew nothing nor ever read the Talmud, it was an excellent intro seminar course...and till this day I haven't forgotten it. For me it was a good course and a course like that might be good for FTF.
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When will people wake up & smell the coffee regarding ftf?
1/ At the time of the allen-t fiasco he (ftf) openly stated his (supposed) 'right' to attempt to convert Jews. HE HAS NEVER RECANTED.
2/ He has repeatedly proselytised by stealth (demanding Jew AND gentile adhere to non-Torah, non-Jewish, NT priniples such as 'loving our enemies').
3/ His posts on this thread are just some of SEVERAL attempts he's made to undermine Jewish texts and beliefs.
This has been going on for months and months (as long as I've been here, anyway). He has repeatedly been warned and demoted but NOTHING has changed!
NOW HEAR THIS:
FTF IS A MISSIONARY! HE WILL NOT STOP TRYING TO UNDERMINE JEWISH BELIEFS. HE WILL NOT STOP TRYING TO CONVERT JEWS. HE'S LIKE A 'NERDY' TERMINATOR SENT TO MURDER JEWISH SOULS.
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I had agreed not to make any more posts until this issue was resolved, however, considering what has been posted here, I have requested and been granted permission to defend myself.
As my ancestry has been brought up, allow me to clarify, my mother's mother fled Germany to escape the holocaust, she was not a practising Jew, but she had Jewish blood, her mother, died in the gas chambers, she also was not a practising Jew, but had Jewish blood, I do not know anything about her parents though, so I cannot go any further back.
Also to clarify, I believe that Israel belongs to the Jews, and as a Christian I believe that I should think of Jews as close family members (this comes from the NT), and therefore as they are close family members, I should help them hold onto and protect their land.
Now, regarding what I said of the Talmud, all I said is that I have a negative opinion of it, I said this as it came up in the topic, I did not intend this as any kind of attack, this opinion could well be misplaced, if someone would like to prove that it is, I ask that they provide a link to what is in their opinion a reliable English translation of it, I do not ask for any arguments about it, just link me to a copy you would call accurate, and let me see if my opinion is misplaced, if it is, I will apologise for having stated that I have a negative opinion of it.
I would like to add that I am sorry if anything I have said on this issue has been personally insulting to anyone, I have not intended to be so, and if I have been I am truly sorry.
I would also like to add, that I consider the way that many members of this forum have spoken of me regarding this unacceptable, and considering the other things I could be putting the time to that I put to posting here, I will be leaving this forum if certain people do not apologise to me.
Unless this issue is cleared up in a positive manner, this will be my final post in this forum.
Personally, FTF, for what it's worth, I forgive you. I would like to add, however, that it would be a good idea, when you have the opportunity in college to a take course, if available, about Talmud and read some of it and learn about it. From what I have read so far, it is quite an amazing text made by human beings so wise and ahead of their time. The type of logic and arguements is astounding!!! I think there is no text out there created by human beings that can come even close to what is written in the Talmud. There are certain conclusions that people today make of what the Rabbis back then concluded that i might disagree with, but that's it..it doesn't make me right or wrong to simply disagree or have a different opinion...We are all mortal and are capable of making mistakes with our interpretations of books made by wise people..and books inspired by Gd's finger. So, I do appreciate your apology and I, for one, forgive you. But when you head to college, look for a course about Talmud and at least get a sample of what this amazing book says. I'm not telling you to become an expert in it or a rabbi or convert or anything. I just want you to see what it is.
The Kabbala on the other hand is meant to be a secret. I personally will not go near it or draw any type of conclusion on it except for the fact that it is very very very deep and that I will leave it to the righteous experts to study it. The Kabballa is not the way to go if one is devoid of Torah AND Talmud...You have to start with knowing Torah really well first...and then knowing Talmud really well second..than you need to be 40 years old, married, and with children and then you can learn Kabballa and know its true deep meaning.
Yea finding a Talmud Torah class in College. ::) , College and Torah rarly go hand in hand and of they did have a course in Judaism its allmost allways distorted and taught by some haskala moran. (except this one guy in Queens College- named professor Acker, who actually is and was a great teacher). Anyway in College as I know, one needs to know at least basic Hebrew to get into a class like that when its rarly available. If one wants to know some of the wisdom of the Talmud, one either can go to a Yeshiva learn with some people who can translate or some online. Anyway the Talmud has soo much Divine wisdom, and even science and other things that people only discovered centuries later (and actually took credit for themselves).
Maybe I will post some of the Divine information that is written in the Talmud.
ex- The cure for rabbies was written in the Talmud, also Halies commet, also the exact # of stars in the Universe, electricity, and many more things.
Actually, I went to Drew University and in the relgious post grad program they had an intro course on Talmud. It was taught by a Christian attempting to be like the early Christians were really Jews, but believed Jesus was the Messiah...but nevertheless, for someone like me, who knew nothing nor ever read the Talmud, it was an excellent intro seminar course...and till this day I haven't forgotten it. For me it was a good course and a course like that might be good for FTF.
Thats what I mean. You didn't really learn the sweatness of the Talmud. Learning the Talmud from a Christian wont and as I can see didn't bring you the real deepness and truth hidden in it. Their is soo much you will learn once you connect to the true Tzaddikim and teachers of Torah. A Jew that is connected would want to learn more and also acquire the Knowledge and Love/ Fear of G-d that is needed. I suggest(ed also) that you and every Jew learn Torah/ Talmud from the many great Rabbanim that teach it very well and would connect you to Judasim properly.
-learning it from anyone else, or as a history book, or in college for who knows how many hours, wont get the evil enclination opposing it, becuase that wont get you closer to G-d, but putting on a video for 2 hours, will have the yetzer hara telling you that you cant, or you dont have the time, you cant focus, and allllll the other excuses. But one has to be stronge and once one passes that obsticale one will taste the sweatness of the hidden light of the Torah.
-
HE'S LIKE A 'NERDY' TERMINATOR SENT TO MURDER JEWISH SOULS.[/size][/color]
Newman, thank you for caring so much for Jewish souls! O0
How great it is to know people like you!
Self-interest, My Dear.
We gentiles NEED religious, Torah-true Jews. They don't need us.
-
I had agreed not to make any more posts until this issue was resolved, however, considering what has been posted here, I have requested and been granted permission to defend myself.
As my ancestry has been brought up, allow me to clarify, my mother's mother fled Germany to escape the holocaust, she was not a practising Jew, but she had Jewish blood, her mother, died in the gas chambers, she also was not a practising Jew, but had Jewish blood, I do not know anything about her parents though, so I cannot go any further back.
Also to clarify, I believe that Israel belongs to the Jews, and as a Christian I believe that I should think of Jews as close family members (this comes from the NT), and therefore as they are close family members, I should help them hold onto and protect their land.
Now, regarding what I said of the Talmud, all I said is that I have a negative opinion of it, I said this as it came up in the topic, I did not intend this as any kind of attack, this opinion could well be misplaced, if someone would like to prove that it is, I ask that they provide a link to what is in their opinion a reliable English translation of it, I do not ask for any arguments about it, just link me to a copy you would call accurate, and let me see if my opinion is misplaced, if it is, I will apologise for having stated that I have a negative opinion of it.
I would like to add that I am sorry if anything I have said on this issue has been personally insulting to anyone, I have not intended to be so, and if I have been I am truly sorry.
I would also like to add, that I consider the way that many members of this forum have spoken of me regarding this unacceptable, and considering the other things I could be putting the time to that I put to posting here, I will be leaving this forum if certain people do not apologise to me.
Unless this issue is cleared up in a positive manner, this will be my final post in this forum.
Personally, FTF, for what it's worth, I forgive you. I would like to add, however, that it would be a good idea, when you have the opportunity in college to a take course, if available, about Talmud and read some of it and learn about it. From what I have read so far, it is quite an amazing text made by human beings so wise and ahead of their time. The type of logic and arguements is astounding!!! I think there is no text out there created by human beings that can come even close to what is written in the Talmud. There are certain conclusions that people today make of what the Rabbis back then concluded that i might disagree with, but that's it..it doesn't make me right or wrong to simply disagree or have a different opinion...We are all mortal and are capable of making mistakes with our interpretations of books made by wise people..and books inspired by Gd's finger. So, I do appreciate your apology and I, for one, forgive you. But when you head to college, look for a course about Talmud and at least get a sample of what this amazing book says. I'm not telling you to become an expert in it or a rabbi or convert or anything. I just want you to see what it is.
The Kabbala on the other hand is meant to be a secret. I personally will not go near it or draw any type of conclusion on it except for the fact that it is very very very deep and that I will leave it to the righteous experts to study it. The Kabballa is not the way to go if one is devoid of Torah AND Talmud...You have to start with knowing Torah really well first...and then knowing Talmud really well second..than you need to be 40 years old, married, and with children and then you can learn Kabballa and know its true deep meaning.
Yea finding a Talmud Torah class in College. ::) , College and Torah rarly go hand in hand and of they did have a course in Judaism its allmost allways distorted and taught by some haskala moran. (except this one guy in Queens College- named professor Acker, who actually is and was a great teacher). Anyway in College as I know, one needs to know at least basic Hebrew to get into a class like that when its rarly available. If one wants to know some of the wisdom of the Talmud, one either can go to a Yeshiva learn with some people who can translate or some online. Anyway the Talmud has soo much Divine wisdom, and even science and other things that people only discovered centuries later (and actually took credit for themselves).
Maybe I will post some of the Divine information that is written in the Talmud.
ex- The cure for rabbies was written in the Talmud, also Halies commet, also the exact # of stars in the Universe, electricity, and many more things.
Actually, I went to Drew University and in the relgious post grad program they had an intro course on Talmud. It was taught by a Christian attempting to be like the early Christians were really Jews, but believed Jesus was the Messiah...but nevertheless, for someone like me, who knew nothing nor ever read the Talmud, it was an excellent intro seminar course...and till this day I haven't forgotten it. For me it was a good course and a course like that might be good for FTF.
Your a religious studies major?
-
to Dr. Dan
THE ARIZAL SAID THAT IN THE LATER GENERATIONS
IT IS A MITZVAH TO REVEAL THE
WISDOM OF THE ZOHAR
Thus it is Pnimiut HaTorah which is the Tree of Life, which is the revelation of
G-dliness, which leads to 'a perfect heart,' i.e., the love and fear [of G-d] which is
the essence of our occupation with the Torah and its mitzvos. For this reason, the
essence of Pnimiut HaTorah was revealed in these later generations. Thus Tanya,
Iggeres HaKodesh, Epistle 26, quotes the AriZal as stating that it is in these later
generations that it is permitted - and indeed, it is a mitzvah - to reveal this
wisdom. For in the earlier generations, this was not necessary. They were totally
righteous men [whose souls] stemmed from high [spiritual] rungs. Because of the
tremendous power of their souls, they possessed genuine love and fear [of G-d]
and studied the Torah lishmah. [To attain these levels] they did not require the
revelation of Pnimiut HaTorah. [Therefore these teachings were hidden, for] 'It is
the glory of G-d to conceal a matter. In [these] later generations, by contrast, the
souls do not stem from such high rungs, and [the spiritual potential of our] hearts
has diminished. Therefore, it is a mitzvah to reveal [this wisdom]. In each
successive generation, the revelation of Pnimiut HaTorah becomes even more
necessary so that [it becomes possible] to know G-d and [experience] love and
fear of Him Since the spiritual level of the souls have descended and they have
become more materially oriented, and there are a multitude of veils and
concealment, [were it not for the revelation of Pnimiut HaTorah, even those who
THE IMPORTANCE OF THE STUDY OF THE ZOHAR 9
cling to the Torah would not know G-d, and would not [experience] genuine love
and fear [of Him]. For love and fear are dependent on the knowledge and
comprehension of G-dliness. How is it possible to love something when you do
not know what it is?
RABBI SHALOM DOV BER MI LUBAVITCH ZTK’L
KUNTRES ETZ CHAYYIM
-
I had agreed not to make any more posts until this issue was resolved, however, considering what has been posted here, I have requested and been granted permission to defend myself.
As my ancestry has been brought up, allow me to clarify, my mother's mother fled Germany to escape the holocaust, she was not a practising Jew, but she had Jewish blood, her mother, died in the gas chambers, she also was not a practising Jew, but had Jewish blood, I do not know anything about her parents though, so I cannot go any further back.
Also to clarify, I believe that Israel belongs to the Jews, and as a Christian I believe that I should think of Jews as close family members (this comes from the NT), and therefore as they are close family members, I should help them hold onto and protect their land.
Now, regarding what I said of the Talmud, all I said is that I have a negative opinion of it, I said this as it came up in the topic, I did not intend this as any kind of attack, this opinion could well be misplaced, if someone would like to prove that it is, I ask that they provide a link to what is in their opinion a reliable English translation of it, I do not ask for any arguments about it, just link me to a copy you would call accurate, and let me see if my opinion is misplaced, if it is, I will apologise for having stated that I have a negative opinion of it.
I would like to add that I am sorry if anything I have said on this issue has been personally insulting to anyone, I have not intended to be so, and if I have been I am truly sorry.
I would also like to add, that I consider the way that many members of this forum have spoken of me regarding this unacceptable, and considering the other things I could be putting the time to that I put to posting here, I will be leaving this forum if certain people do not apologise to me.
Unless this issue is cleared up in a positive manner, this will be my final post in this forum.
Personally, FTF, for what it's worth, I forgive you. I would like to add, however, that it would be a good idea, when you have the opportunity in college to a take course, if available, about Talmud and read some of it and learn about it. From what I have read so far, it is quite an amazing text made by human beings so wise and ahead of their time. The type of logic and arguements is astounding!!! I think there is no text out there created by human beings that can come even close to what is written in the Talmud. There are certain conclusions that people today make of what the Rabbis back then concluded that i might disagree with, but that's it..it doesn't make me right or wrong to simply disagree or have a different opinion...We are all mortal and are capable of making mistakes with our interpretations of books made by wise people..and books inspired by Gd's finger. So, I do appreciate your apology and I, for one, forgive you. But when you head to college, look for a course about Talmud and at least get a sample of what this amazing book says. I'm not telling you to become an expert in it or a rabbi or convert or anything. I just want you to see what it is.
The Kabbala on the other hand is meant to be a secret. I personally will not go near it or draw any type of conclusion on it except for the fact that it is very very very deep and that I will leave it to the righteous experts to study it. The Kabballa is not the way to go if one is devoid of Torah AND Talmud...You have to start with knowing Torah really well first...and then knowing Talmud really well second..than you need to be 40 years old, married, and with children and then you can learn Kabballa and know its true deep meaning.
Yea finding a Talmud Torah class in College. ::) , College and Torah rarly go hand in hand and of they did have a course in Judaism its allmost allways distorted and taught by some haskala moran. (except this one guy in Queens College- named professor Acker, who actually is and was a great teacher). Anyway in College as I know, one needs to know at least basic Hebrew to get into a class like that when its rarly available. If one wants to know some of the wisdom of the Talmud, one either can go to a Yeshiva learn with some people who can translate or some online. Anyway the Talmud has soo much Divine wisdom, and even science and other things that people only discovered centuries later (and actually took credit for themselves).
Maybe I will post some of the Divine information that is written in the Talmud.
ex- The cure for rabbies was written in the Talmud, also Halies commet, also the exact # of stars in the Universe, electricity, and many more things.
Actually, I went to Drew University and in the relgious post grad program they had an intro course on Talmud. It was taught by a Christian attempting to be like the early Christians were really Jews, but believed Jesus was the Messiah...but nevertheless, for someone like me, who knew nothing nor ever read the Talmud, it was an excellent intro seminar course...and till this day I haven't forgotten it. For me it was a good course and a course like that might be good for FTF.
Thats what I mean. You didn't really learn the sweatness of the Talmud. Learning the Talmud from a Christian wont and as I can see didn't bring you the real deepness and truth hidden in it. Their is soo much you will learn once you connect to the true Tzaddikim and teachers of Torah. A Jew that is connected would want to learn more and also acquire the Knowledge and Love/ Fear of G-d that is needed. I suggest(ed also) that you and every Jew learn Torah/ Talmud from the many great Rabbanim that teach it very well and would connect you to Judasim properly.
-learning it from anyone else, or as a history book, or in college for who knows how many hours, wont get the evil enclination opposing it, becuase that wont get you closer to G-d, but putting on a video for 2 hours, will have the yetzer hara telling you that you cant, or you dont have the time, you cant focus, and allllll the other excuses. But one has to be stronge and once one passes that obsticale one will taste the sweatness of the hidden light of the Torah.
i think you're wrong..I understood the sweetness of the Talmud from that class...do you hear me say that I hated it? I loved it and will not forget it! You don't know what i went through, so stop being so judgemental!
-
I had agreed not to make any more posts until this issue was resolved, however, considering what has been posted here, I have requested and been granted permission to defend myself.
As my ancestry has been brought up, allow me to clarify, my mother's mother fled Germany to escape the holocaust, she was not a practising Jew, but she had Jewish blood, her mother, died in the gas chambers, she also was not a practising Jew, but had Jewish blood, I do not know anything about her parents though, so I cannot go any further back.
Also to clarify, I believe that Israel belongs to the Jews, and as a Christian I believe that I should think of Jews as close family members (this comes from the NT), and therefore as they are close family members, I should help them hold onto and protect their land.
Now, regarding what I said of the Talmud, all I said is that I have a negative opinion of it, I said this as it came up in the topic, I did not intend this as any kind of attack, this opinion could well be misplaced, if someone would like to prove that it is, I ask that they provide a link to what is in their opinion a reliable English translation of it, I do not ask for any arguments about it, just link me to a copy you would call accurate, and let me see if my opinion is misplaced, if it is, I will apologise for having stated that I have a negative opinion of it.
I would like to add that I am sorry if anything I have said on this issue has been personally insulting to anyone, I have not intended to be so, and if I have been I am truly sorry.
I would also like to add, that I consider the way that many members of this forum have spoken of me regarding this unacceptable, and considering the other things I could be putting the time to that I put to posting here, I will be leaving this forum if certain people do not apologise to me.
Unless this issue is cleared up in a positive manner, this will be my final post in this forum.
Personally, FTF, for what it's worth, I forgive you. I would like to add, however, that it would be a good idea, when you have the opportunity in college to a take course, if available, about Talmud and read some of it and learn about it. From what I have read so far, it is quite an amazing text made by human beings so wise and ahead of their time. The type of logic and arguements is astounding!!! I think there is no text out there created by human beings that can come even close to what is written in the Talmud. There are certain conclusions that people today make of what the Rabbis back then concluded that i might disagree with, but that's it..it doesn't make me right or wrong to simply disagree or have a different opinion...We are all mortal and are capable of making mistakes with our interpretations of books made by wise people..and books inspired by Gd's finger. So, I do appreciate your apology and I, for one, forgive you. But when you head to college, look for a course about Talmud and at least get a sample of what this amazing book says. I'm not telling you to become an expert in it or a rabbi or convert or anything. I just want you to see what it is.
The Kabbala on the other hand is meant to be a secret. I personally will not go near it or draw any type of conclusion on it except for the fact that it is very very very deep and that I will leave it to the righteous experts to study it. The Kabballa is not the way to go if one is devoid of Torah AND Talmud...You have to start with knowing Torah really well first...and then knowing Talmud really well second..than you need to be 40 years old, married, and with children and then you can learn Kabballa and know its true deep meaning.
Yea finding a Talmud Torah class in College. ::) , College and Torah rarly go hand in hand and of they did have a course in Judaism its allmost allways distorted and taught by some haskala moran. (except this one guy in Queens College- named professor Acker, who actually is and was a great teacher). Anyway in College as I know, one needs to know at least basic Hebrew to get into a class like that when its rarly available. If one wants to know some of the wisdom of the Talmud, one either can go to a Yeshiva learn with some people who can translate or some online. Anyway the Talmud has soo much Divine wisdom, and even science and other things that people only discovered centuries later (and actually took credit for themselves).
Maybe I will post some of the Divine information that is written in the Talmud.
ex- The cure for rabbies was written in the Talmud, also Halies commet, also the exact # of stars in the Universe, electricity, and many more things.
Actually, I went to Drew University and in the relgious post grad program they had an intro course on Talmud. It was taught by a Christian attempting to be like the early Christians were really Jews, but believed Jesus was the Messiah...but nevertheless, for someone like me, who knew nothing nor ever read the Talmud, it was an excellent intro seminar course...and till this day I haven't forgotten it. For me it was a good course and a course like that might be good for FTF.
Your a religious studies major?
Was a psychobiology major..had to take this class to fullfill my requirements...good thing i accidently came across it..was very worthwhile for me.
Tzvi, you are hardcore..if it works for you then go for it..I'm not as hardcore as you and would prefer not to go for something unfamiliar in a very intense manner..or else I will hate it...so what i gained from that class was good for me in an introductory sense...for you, it wouldn't have..got it?
-
to Dr. Dan
THE ARIZAL SAID THAT IN THE LATER GENERATIONS
IT IS A MITZVAH TO REVEAL THE
WISDOM OF THE ZOHAR
Thus it is Pnimiut HaTorah which is the Tree of Life, which is the revelation of
G-dliness, which leads to 'a perfect heart,' i.e., the love and fear [of G-d] which is
the essence of our occupation with the Torah and its mitzvos. For this reason, the
essence of Pnimiut HaTorah was revealed in these later generations. Thus Tanya,
Iggeres HaKodesh, Epistle 26, quotes the AriZal as stating that it is in these later
generations that it is permitted - and indeed, it is a mitzvah - to reveal this
wisdom. For in the earlier generations, this was not necessary. They were totally
righteous men [whose souls] stemmed from high [spiritual] rungs. Because of the
tremendous power of their souls, they possessed genuine love and fear [of G-d]
and studied the Torah lishmah. [To attain these levels] they did not require the
revelation of Pnimiut HaTorah. [Therefore these teachings were hidden, for] 'It is
the glory of G-d to conceal a matter. In [these] later generations, by contrast, the
souls do not stem from such high rungs, and [the spiritual potential of our] hearts
has diminished. Therefore, it is a mitzvah to reveal [this wisdom]. In each
successive generation, the revelation of Pnimiut HaTorah becomes even more
necessary so that [it becomes possible] to know G-d and [experience] love and
fear of Him Since the spiritual level of the souls have descended and they have
become more materially oriented, and there are a multitude of veils and
concealment, [were it not for the revelation of Pnimiut HaTorah, even those who
THE IMPORTANCE OF THE STUDY OF THE ZOHAR 9
cling to the Torah would not know G-d, and would not [experience] genuine love
and fear [of Him]. For love and fear are dependent on the knowledge and
comprehension of G-dliness. How is it possible to love something when you do
not know what it is?
RABBI SHALOM DOV BER MI LUBAVITCH ZTK’L
KUNTRES ETZ CHAYYIM
see what I mean? This is too intense for me..i got lost in the first five words of this paragraph.. good for you? yes..not for me..
-
I agree that he should be banned. I'm so glad that at least he's not a moderator anymore.
Banning ftf would be a DISASTER for JTF. He represents a significant number of Christians who are not fully aware of lots of things relating to Judaism. Instead of banning him, he should be shown that he is wrong. If this can be done, all Christians like him (of which there are MANY, at least in the UK) could then (in the long term) sympathise to JTF.
Also he was a fantastic moderator, like it or not, his series on "What does Islam say about..." was one of the best things on this website.
-
But aren't chicken skins and fat used to make the broth for soup? Hey you guys are Jewish, where the concept came from,,,,the oldest remedy for a cold is Chicken Soup
My family has a recipe to cook pieces of chicken with certain vegetables in water and then remove them after it is done cooking and the water turns into the soup so it is soaking the whole meat.
I was taught to cook the chicken soup with the chicken parts and then remove the meat and allow the soup to cool. The fat and grease will jell at the top of the pot and then can be removed. Then you can spice the soup wit some dill and other spice to taste while reheating it. If the broth is use for Matzoh Ball soup the soup will not be as greasy. If you want to make regular soup and you like some meat in it you can also put some of the meat back in and the soup and it will not have the high grease and fat content.
-
I agree that he should be banned. I'm so glad that at least he's not a moderator anymore.
Banning ftf would be a DISASTER for JTF. He represents a significant number of Christians who are not fully aware of lots of things relating to Judaism. Instead of banning him, he should be shown that he is wrong. If this can be done, all Christians like him (of which there are MANY, at least in the UK) could then (in the long term) sympathise to JTF.
Also he was a fantastic moderator, like it or not, his series on "What does Islam say about..." was one of the best things on this website.
To have mercy means to be human..
I agree with you CJD.
I think a lot of people here on this forum lack mercy...For Gd's sake! this is ONLY a forum..nobody murdered anyone here, Gd forbid!!
-
I agree that he should be banned. I'm so glad that at least he's not a moderator anymore.
Banning ftf would be a DISASTER for JTF. He represents a significant number of Christians who are not fully aware of lots of things relating to Judaism. Instead of banning him, he should be shown that he is wrong. If this can be done, all Christians like him (of which there are MANY, at least in the UK) could then (in the long term) sympathise to JTF.
Also he was a fantastic moderator, like it or not, his series on "What does Islam say about..." was one of the best things on this website.
Nic,
Ftf is not merely making innocent oversights out of ignorance. What he's doing is deliberate and calculated.
1/ At the time of the allen-t fiasco he (ftf) openly stated his (supposed) 'right' to attempt to convert Jews. HE HAS NEVER RECANTED.
2/ He has repeatedly proselytised by stealth (demanding Jew AND gentile adhere to non-Torah, non-Jewish, NT priniples such as 'loving our enemies').
3/ His posts on this thread are just some of SEVERAL attempts he's made to undermine Jewish texts and beliefs.
This has been going on for months and months (as long as I've been here, anyway). He has repeatedly been warned and demoted but NOTHING has changed!
-
I agree that he should be banned. I'm so glad that at least he's not a moderator anymore.
Banning ftf would be a DISASTER for JTF. He represents a significant number of Christians who are not fully aware of lots of things relating to Judaism. Instead of banning him, he should be shown that he is wrong. If this can be done, all Christians like him (of which there are MANY, at least in the UK) could then (in the long term) sympathise to JTF.
Also he was a fantastic moderator, like it or not, his series on "What does Islam say about..." was one of the best things on this website.
Nic,
Ftf is not merely making innocent oversights out of ignorance. What he's doing is deliberate and calculated.
1/ At the time of the allen-t fiasco he (ftf) openly stated his (supposed) 'right' to attempt to convert Jews. HE HAS NEVER RECANTED.
2/ He has repeatedly proselytised by stealth (demanding Jew AND gentile adhere to non-Torah, non-Jewish, NT priniples such as 'loving our enemies').
3/ His posts on this thread are just some of SEVERAL attempts he's made to undermine Jewish texts and beliefs.
This has been going on for months and months (as long as I've been here, anyway). He has repeatedly been warned and demoted but NOTHING has changed!
Well he's gone anyway, it's not worth talking about here.
Back to non kosher food, who's up for some beef in cream sauce? :p
-
I agree that he should be banned. I'm so glad that at least he's not a moderator anymore.
Banning ftf would be a DISASTER for JTF. He represents a significant number of Christians who are not fully aware of lots of things relating to Judaism. Instead of banning him, he should be shown that he is wrong. If this can be done, all Christians like him (of which there are MANY, at least in the UK) could then (in the long term) sympathise to JTF.
Also he was a fantastic moderator, like it or not, his series on "What does Islam say about..." was one of the best things on this website.
Nic,
Ftf is not merely making innocent oversights out of ignorance. What he's doing is deliberate and calculated.
1/ At the time of the allen-t fiasco he (ftf) openly stated his (supposed) 'right' to attempt to convert Jews. HE HAS NEVER RECANTED.
2/ He has repeatedly proselytised by stealth (demanding Jew AND gentile adhere to non-Torah, non-Jewish, NT priniples such as 'loving our enemies').
3/ His posts on this thread are just some of SEVERAL attempts he's made to undermine Jewish texts and beliefs.
This has been going on for months and months (as long as I've been here, anyway). He has repeatedly been warned and demoted but NOTHING has changed!
Well he's gone anyway, it's not worth talking about here.
Back to non kosher food, who's up for some beef in cream sauce? :p
Cows should quake on their hooves when I approach since I must have eaten an entire heard of them on my own but beef in cream sauce thats not only non kosher its disgusting >:(
-
I disagree, beef in a cream, white wine and black peppercorn sauce is TASTY!
-
in 1994 I ate a chilli cheese burrito from Taco Hell. Even though it wasn't kosher it was delicious...and guess what happened to me? Got really really bad diarrhea...
Just comes to show...
-
I like bacon cheeseburgers, from Whataburger. Chili dogs piled high with both chili and cheese and accompanied by fritos piled high with same are delicious.
ugh!
-
I had agreed not to make any more posts until this issue was resolved, however, considering what has been posted here, I have requested and been granted permission to defend myself.
As my ancestry has been brought up, allow me to clarify, my mother's mother fled Germany to escape the holocaust, she was not a practising Jew, but she had Jewish blood, her mother, died in the gas chambers, she also was not a practising Jew, but had Jewish blood, I do not know anything about her parents though, so I cannot go any further back.
Also to clarify, I believe that Israel belongs to the Jews, and as a Christian I believe that I should think of Jews as close family members (this comes from the NT), and therefore as they are close family members, I should help them hold onto and protect their land.
Now, regarding what I said of the Talmud, all I said is that I have a negative opinion of it, I said this as it came up in the topic, I did not intend this as any kind of attack, this opinion could well be misplaced, if someone would like to prove that it is, I ask that they provide a link to what is in their opinion a reliable English translation of it, I do not ask for any arguments about it, just link me to a copy you would call accurate, and let me see if my opinion is misplaced, if it is, I will apologise for having stated that I have a negative opinion of it.
I would like to add that I am sorry if anything I have said on this issue has been personally insulting to anyone, I have not intended to be so, and if I have been I am truly sorry.
I would also like to add, that I consider the way that many members of this forum have spoken of me regarding this unacceptable, and considering the other things I could be putting the time to that I put to posting here, I will be leaving this forum if certain people do not apologise to me.
Unless this issue is cleared up in a positive manner, this will be my final post in this forum.
Personally, FTF, for what it's worth, I forgive you. I would like to add, however, that it would be a good idea, when you have the opportunity in college to a take course, if available, about Talmud and read some of it and learn about it. From what I have read so far, it is quite an amazing text made by human beings so wise and ahead of their time. The type of logic and arguements is astounding!!! I think there is no text out there created by human beings that can come even close to what is written in the Talmud. There are certain conclusions that people today make of what the Rabbis back then concluded that i might disagree with, but that's it..it doesn't make me right or wrong to simply disagree or have a different opinion...We are all mortal and are capable of making mistakes with our interpretations of books made by wise people..and books inspired by Gd's finger. So, I do appreciate your apology and I, for one, forgive you. But when you head to college, look for a course about Talmud and at least get a sample of what this amazing book says. I'm not telling you to become an expert in it or a rabbi or convert or anything. I just want you to see what it is.
The Kabbala on the other hand is meant to be a secret. I personally will not go near it or draw any type of conclusion on it except for the fact that it is very very very deep and that I will leave it to the righteous experts to study it. The Kabballa is not the way to go if one is devoid of Torah AND Talmud...You have to start with knowing Torah really well first...and then knowing Talmud really well second..than you need to be 40 years old, married, and with children and then you can learn Kabballa and know its true deep meaning.
Yea finding a Talmud Torah class in College. ::) , College and Torah rarly go hand in hand and of they did have a course in Judaism its allmost allways distorted and taught by some haskala moran. (except this one guy in Queens College- named professor Acker, who actually is and was a great teacher). Anyway in College as I know, one needs to know at least basic Hebrew to get into a class like that when its rarly available. If one wants to know some of the wisdom of the Talmud, one either can go to a Yeshiva learn with some people who can translate or some online. Anyway the Talmud has soo much Divine wisdom, and even science and other things that people only discovered centuries later (and actually took credit for themselves).
Maybe I will post some of the Divine information that is written in the Talmud.
ex- The cure for rabbies was written in the Talmud, also Halies commet, also the exact # of stars in the Universe, electricity, and many more things.
Actually, I went to Drew University and in the relgious post grad program they had an intro course on Talmud. It was taught by a Christian attempting to be like the early Christians were really Jews, but believed Jesus was the Messiah...but nevertheless, for someone like me, who knew nothing nor ever read the Talmud, it was an excellent intro seminar course...and till this day I haven't forgotten it. For me it was a good course and a course like that might be good for FTF.
Thats what I mean. You didn't really learn the sweatness of the Talmud. Learning the Talmud from a Christian wont and as I can see didn't bring you the real deepness and truth hidden in it. Their is soo much you will learn once you connect to the true Tzaddikim and teachers of Torah. A Jew that is connected would want to learn more and also acquire the Knowledge and Love/ Fear of G-d that is needed. I suggest(ed also) that you and every Jew learn Torah/ Talmud from the many great Rabbanim that teach it very well and would connect you to Judasim properly.
-learning it from anyone else, or as a history book, or in college for who knows how many hours, wont get the evil enclination opposing it, becuase that wont get you closer to G-d, but putting on a video for 2 hours, will have the yetzer hara telling you that you cant, or you dont have the time, you cant focus, and allllll the other excuses. But one has to be stronge and once one passes that obsticale one will taste the sweatness of the hidden light of the Torah.
i think you're wrong..I understood the sweetness of the Talmud from that class...do you hear me say that I hated it? I loved it and will not forget it! You don't know what i went through, so stop being so judgemental!
Relax, why do some people allways feel that they are being judged by others ??? . I didnt say you hated it, but was just suggesting for you (and others) to learn a little more then taking a class with a christian in college. No one is asking you to be "hardcore" and im sure im not in that category either. Will maybe spending an hour or 2 listining to a lecture be sooo hard and impossible to accomplish?
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I like bacon cheeseburgers, from Whataburger. Chili dogs piled high with both chili and cheese and accompanied by fritos piled high with same are delicious.
quite healthy ;D
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Treif (non-kosher) food is gooooood!
Beef Stroganoff (cream), Tandoori Chicken (yogurt), King Prawns (big, Aussie shrimp) and mud crabs...............YUMMMMMM!
.................And I'd drive a truck through a muSSlim kindergarten for a feed of oysters Kilpatrick. ;)
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in 1994 I ate a chilli cheese burrito from Taco Hell. Even though it wasn't kosher it was delicious...and guess what happened to me? Got really really bad diarrhea...
Just comes to show...
:::D :::D :::D
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I like bacon cheeseburgers, from Whataburger. Chili dogs piled high with both chili and cheese and accompanied by fritos piled high with same are delicious.
I hope you didn't eat that all at once. :D
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I like bacon cheeseburgers, from Whataburger. Chili dogs piled high with both chili and cheese and accompanied by fritos piled high with same are delicious.
I hope you didn't eat that all at once. :D
;D