JTF.ORG Forum
Guns and Self-Defense => Guns/Firearms => Topic started by: White Israelite on January 03, 2008, 06:40:40 PM
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This is rather disturbing. I've seen this group (RAC) marching against gun ownership. Read it for yourself. These are the "holocaust mentality" Jews I refer to when they want us to rely on the government.
http://rac.org/advocacy/issues/issuegc/
Jewish Values and Gun Control
Mark J. Pelavin
Associate Director,
The Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism
September, 1999
In recent weeks, my office has received more than a dozen letters this week lambasting the Reform Movement's support for gun control. While the number of letters is relatively small, it is more feedback than many other controversial issues have garnered. In sum, these letters assert that the shootings at the Los Angeles Jewish Community Center summer camp underscore the folly of Jews supporting gun control; they cite historical precedent (mainly the Warsaw Ghetto uprising) as support for the assertion that only when Jews have guns have they been able to preserve Jewish honor and dignity. They point to Israel as an example of Jews' need for guns, and they use both Constitutional and Talmudic citations to rebut any attempt to limit access to firearms.
Yet, despite their appeals to history and the Judaic tradition, these pleas to oppose gun control are far from convincing. To argue that as Jews we must respond to gun violence with a paranoid impulse to grab our guns in self defense is a provincial and dangerous perspective. Such an argument assumes that a vast majority of the gun violence tearing America apart is specifically aimed at Jews, or, at a minimum, that the Jewish community has no stake in addressing the larger national epidemic of gun violence. Despite a rash of highly-publicized anti-Semitic incidents, it is simply not the case that Jews are disproportionate victims of gun violence. While we as a community undoubtedly feel under attack at the moment, the bigger picture does not support an ethos of constant persecution in America today.
In fact, study after study clearly demonstrates that the use of a firearm to resist a violent attack increases the likelihood of injury to the gun owner. According to the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, "residents of homes where a gun is present are five times more likely to experience a suicide and three times more likely to experience a homicide than residents of homes without guns. Additionally, a gun kept in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a member of the household, or friend, than an intruder." Guns certainly endanger the rest of us. Every year, 35,000 Americans die from gun-inflicted injuries; 14 children are lost to gun violence every day in this country; and American children are more than 12 times as likely to die from gun violence as are the children of any other developed nation. If trends continue, 2003 will see gun violence overtake automobile accidents as the leading cause of fatalities in the United States.
The effort to call Jews to arms in self defense could have significant, and troubling, effects on our society. Arming ourselves to the teeth in a quest to protect our community would be questionably effective in accomplishing its goals, but it would undoubtedly lead to a greater balkanization within the United States. We would alienate ourselves from the larger society, and we would be seen (correctly in this case) as arming ourselves in direct opposition to those with whom we share this country. Just as most of us would be dismayed to see the African-American community or the gay and lesbian community self-segregate and stockpile weapons, so would the rest of America view Jews who did the same with suspicion and fear. The inadvertent but inescapable effect would be heightened incidents of prejudice, vandalism, and hate-fueled violence.
Our tradition calls for each of us to participate in tikkun olam, repair of the world. For us to insist that America's culture of gun violence — and the epidemic of killing that it has wrought — is important to us only as it effects our fellow Jews is to turn our backs on the rest of America. Admittedly, addressing society's problems is an overwhelming and perhaps unattainable goal, but our tradition demands no less. It is not up to us to complete the task, but neither are we free to desist from it.
We face a critical time: a period of unprecedented technology, of wondrous prosperity, and yet of great fear. We can choose to turn inward as a community, to protect only ourselves and our narrow interests, or we can look beyond our community, into our nation and our world, seeking common solutions, and working for the general welfare. The latter is the much harder path, but I believe that it is the one that will provide our children a better world, the one to which we as Jews are committed, and the one to which we should all rededicate ourselves. Let that commitment be our resolution for the new year.
Note: This op-ed ran in Jewish newspapers nationwide.
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Well Rabbi Kahane said that one of major problems is assumlating into the culture of the Nation that the Jewish People are living in.
Your correct this mindset smacks of Pre Holocaust mindset.
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Of course Reform [Deformed] are anti gun they are against everything normal
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"holocaust mentality" ? I have never heard of that before.
And I can quite understand why some don't wish to be around guns.
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The environment in which the Jewish People were in prior to the Holocaust is complete faith in the Government or State to protect them.
The Jewish people over time had their rights taken away slowly(sound familiar). In the end only the Police and the Military had the weapons and look what happend.
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The environment in which the Jewish People were in prior to the Holocaust is complete faith in the Government or State to protect them.
The Jewish people over time had their rights taken away slowly(sound familiar). In the end only the Police and the Military had the weapons and look what happend.
Do you quite honestly believe the Holocaust was caused because the Jews had no guns?
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The environment in which the Jewish People were in prior to the Holocaust is complete faith in the Government or State to protect them.
The Jewish people over time had their rights taken away slowly(sound familiar). In the end only the Police and the Military had the weapons and look what happend.
Do you quite honestly believe the Holocaust was caused because the Jews had no guns?
It wasn't caused because Jews had no guns, it was one of the direct results that resulted in so many deaths of Jews not being able to defend themselves due to Nazi Germany passing laws against Jews being able to legally arm themselves. The advanced documentation and records was what allowed the Nazis to know who had guns and allowed them to confiscate them from Jews living in Germany. As a result, Jews were hoarded up and sent to the death camps in lines unable to do anything. Had more Jews been armed, then the holocaust would not have included so many Jewish deaths. Why do you think Hitler didn't bother invading Switzerland? He knew every citizen was armed and he would have to kill everyone to invade the country, it was suicide.
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The environment in which the Jewish People were in prior to the Holocaust is complete faith in the Government or State to protect them.
The Jewish people over time had their rights taken away slowly(sound familiar). In the end only the Police and the Military had the weapons and look what happend.
Do you quite honestly believe the Holocaust was caused because the Jews had no guns?
It wasn't caused because Jews had no guns, it was one of the direct results that resulted in so many deaths of Jews not being able to defend themselves due to Nazi Germany passing laws against Jews being able to legally arm themselves. The advanced documentation and records was what allowed the Nazis to know who had guns and allowed them to confiscate them from Jews living in Germany. As a result, Jews were hoarded up and sent to the death camps in lines unable to do anything. Had more Jews been armed, then the holocaust would not have included so many Jewish deaths. Why do you think Hitler didn't bother invading Switzerland? He knew every citizen was armed and he would have to kill everyone to invade the country, it was suicide.
I think you are grasping at straws.
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The environment in which the Jewish People were in prior to the Holocaust is complete faith in the Government or State to protect them.
The Jewish people over time had their rights taken away slowly(sound familiar). In the end only the Police and the Military had the weapons and look what happend.
Do you quite honestly believe the Holocaust was caused because the Jews had no guns?
It wasn't caused because Jews had no guns, it was one of the direct results that resulted in so many deaths of Jews not being able to defend themselves due to Nazi Germany passing laws against Jews being able to legally arm themselves. The advanced documentation and records was what allowed the Nazis to know who had guns and allowed them to confiscate them from Jews living in Germany. As a result, Jews were hoarded up and sent to the death camps in lines unable to do anything. Had more Jews been armed, then the holocaust would not have included so many Jewish deaths. Why do you think Hitler didn't bother invading Switzerland? He knew every citizen was armed and he would have to kill everyone to invade the country, it was suicide.
I think you are grasping at straws.
Have you ever read the Nazi Gun Control laws of 1938? Are you implying that had Jews been armed that more wouldn't have survived?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/860211/posts
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Have you ever read the Nazi Gun Control laws of 1938? Are you implying that had Jews been armed that more wouldn't have survived?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/860211/posts
I have read it, and I know that it would of made little difference. Did you know England and the USA sat back and watched the death camps in action and could do nothing.
Two mighty countries full of soldiers, guns, weapons of all kinds. Could do nothing.
You think the Jews there did not know what it was, what they were facing. I tell you this they knew, and they walked proud, and faced it.
Gun or no gun, when you walk into the belly of hell, only G-ds will, will save you.
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Have you ever read the Nazi Gun Control laws of 1938? Are you implying that had Jews been armed that more wouldn't have survived?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/860211/posts
I have read it, and I know that it would of made little difference. Did you know England and the USA sat back and watched the death camps in action and could do nothing.
Two mighty countries full of soldiers, guns, weapons of all kinds. Could do nothing.
You think the Jews there did not know what it was, what they were facing. I tell you this they knew, and they walked proud, and faced it.
Gun or no gun, when you walk into the belly of hell, only G-ds will, will save you.
God helps those who help themselves.
United States didn't get involved because it was isolationist, the UK and America didn't go into World War II to help the Jews nor did the Soviets. It was in their best interests as Germany was becoming expansionist.
The few Jews who were armed held off for almost a month because they were armed despite the superior numbers of the German military. You can't rely on government to protect you or have control of the firearms, because we all know where that led to with Nazi Germany. There were few Jews who were armed but if they were able to contain Nazis at bay for a month, can you imagine just 1 million Jews? Some people say this would have made the situation worse or that the superior might of the 3rd reich would have crushed them. I disagree, I don't mean to compare the situation but look at Russia and Chechnya, the Chechnyas (yes they are muslims) have been giving the Russians hell since their existance and yet the Russians can't defeat them despite the fact they have destroyed entire cities in Chechnya, what the Chechnyans have done is pretty cowardly (Beslan school massacre) but the fact that a country like Russia can't defeat a minority of people armed only with a few guns pretty much shows that people armed can resist against a larger government.
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It's just another left-leaning pinko front group masquerading as Jews.
Nothing wrong with 'em that a good bull-whippin' wouldn't fix.
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G-d helps those who help themselves.
Wrong, but good PR by America PC crowd I guess. The Allies didn't do anything because of a few reasons,
One they thought the Germans would not make the Death camps large scale,
Two Auschwitz-Birkenau was seen as a large scale problem the railway that entered the camp, was the only mass transport in or out and the Allies choose not to target it, because they wanted to use it.
Three Sobibor and Treblinka were fully operating, and seen by the Allies as small production, and numbers of people kill could not be that great. Afterall only Jews were being killed at that stage.
Four America and their self centred attitude was brought into the war due to the Japs attacking Peril Harbour, and once Americans where Jap's POWs and that changed their minds. And suddenly their cute little ways Hitler now could target them.
Five after they realised the real agenda to Hitlers camps, they knew even their combined skills and limited weapons were useless.
Six the Brits and the yanks felt if the bombed the camps more people would die. Ironic isn't it.
Auschwitz-Birkenau became a symbol of Nazism, you know why the families did not want it destroyed.
Its not just a symbol of the collective 6 million Jews that died, it is a symbol to the world powers that sat back and watched, that we shall never forget the most dangerous actions and most hurtful lies are said in silence.
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G-d helps those who help themselves.
Wrong, but good PR by America PC crowd I guess. The Allies didn't do anything because of a few reasons,
One they thought the Germans would not make the Death camps large scale,
Two Auschwitz-Birkenau was seen as a large scale problem the railway that entered the camp, was the only mass transport in or out and the Allies choose not to target it, because they wanted to use it.
Three Sobibor and Treblinka were fully operating, and seen by the Allies as small production, and numbers of people kill could not be that great. Afterall only Jews were being killed at that stage.
Four America and their self centred attitude was brought into the war due to the Japs attacking Peril Harbour, and once Americans where Jap's POWs and that changed their minds. And suddenly their cute little ways Hitler now could target them.
Five after they realised the real agenda to Hitlers camps, they knew even their combined skills and limited weapons were useless.
Six the Brits and the yanks felt if the bombed the camps more people would die. Ironic isn't it.
Auschwitz-Birkenau became a symbol of Nazism, you know why the families did not want it destroyed.
Its not just a symbol of the collective 6 million Jews that died, it is a symbol to the world powers that sat back and watched, that we shall never forget the most dangerous actions and most hurtful lies are said in silence.
The world also sits silent while people are being disarmed by their governments in the name of a "safer society". The purpose why the allies didn't get involved or help the Jews can be disputed, but the fact remains that Jews were systematically disarmed by the German government and by relying on government to pull us out of trouble or keep us safe is suicidal. This is clearly what we mean by "holocaust mentality"
The fact of the matter is we can sit here and get depressed how so many of our people were killed and yell until we're blue in the face but it doesn't change the past. We have a quote "Never Again", education isn't enough to stop another holocaust from happening, i've choose to arm myself and will promote my children and fellow Jews to arm themselves to stick true to that quote.
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Tell me how many people of different races have experienced genocide? How many of those races where armed as apart of there lifestyles? How many deaths did that prevent?
What difference did it make?
Arming yourself I am not against, I support it. But Arming yourself for the wrong reason and mentality is wrong.
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Tell me how many people of different races have experienced genocide? How many of those races where armed as apart of there lifestyles? How many deaths did that prevent?
What difference did it make?
Arming yourself I am not against, I support it. But Arming yourself for the wrong reason and mentality is wrong.
* In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953 approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
* In 1911 Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
* In 1928 Germany established gun control. From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill and other who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
* In 1935, China established gun control. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
* In 1964 Guatemala established gun control. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
* In 1970 Uganda established gun control. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
* In 1956, Cambodia, established gun control. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
That doesn't even include modern day where people in America have been disarmed and turned into victims in the cities, or South Africa which has effectively disarmed whites, Rwanda, and others. You need to check out the documentary "Innocents Betrayed", I can send you it if you like.
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Soviet Union are armed and military trained civvies
Turkey a warrior race never unarmed.
Germany speaks for its self, the Germans were not unarmed.
China warrior race, skilled in armed and unarmed combat, farmers were their army.
Guatemala were 14 year olds have AK47's yes very unarmed ::)
Uganda legal gun trade captial of Africa
Cambodia drugs porn and guns ::)
All armed all killed yes see that made a huge difference.
What about the Serbs did you forget them or don't the count.
And Nam does that not fit your bill either, where the Asians fought the Americans with knives and sharp sticks, while the Yanks had, guns, mines, napalm.
What does this all prove through history no matter what country or race they are, no matter how armed they are, you need the will of the people to fight for thier freedom.
You having a gun will not stop it.
Quite Honestly I agree with your idea of self protection, but you have never been in a situation where all your theory you have had to put into practice.
Step back and rethink your position Cohen.
Until you have served four tours then come and tell me how a gun in a hand of a civvy, will change history and wipe out anti semites. Only good it will do is protect you on the street from the common retard.
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skippy to cohen: "...tell me how a gun in a hand of a civvy, will change history and wipe out anti semites.."
Nobel Prize winning author Alexander Solzhenitsyn agrees with cohen's position; that if each and every time 'jack-booted thugs' knocking on your door at 4am in the morning were met with a hail of bullets, then there would be no Secret Police and there would be no concentration camps.
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skippy to cohen: "...tell me how a gun in a hand of a civvy, will change history and wipe out anti semites.."
Nobel Prize winning author Alexander Solzhenitsyn agrees with cohen's position; that if each and every time 'jack-booted thugs' knocking on your door at 4am in the morning were met with a hail of bullets, then there would be no Secret Police and there would be no concentration camps.
Ok 4 am boot through your door, you are woken from a deep sleep, theres lights in your eyes, wheres your gun? Oh does it matter because there are 15 guns all pointing at your head at once ::)
Wake up and smell the coffee, these people are military trained, well out class a wannabe know it all.
The same methods used by the NAZI's were used by countless militaries over the world. And even law enforcement today.
Its effective and it works no matter how armed you are. If it didn't then the police would never arrest anyone, because ......oh lookie here the crims are ARMED ....fancy that ::)
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skippy to cohen: "...tell me how a gun in a hand of a civvy, will change history and wipe out anti semites.."
Nobel Prize winning author Alexander Solzhenitsyn agrees with cohen's position; that if each and every time 'jack-booted thugs' knocking on your door at 4am in the morning were met with a hail of bullets, then there would be no Secret Police and there would be no concentration camps.
Ok 4 am boot through your door, you are woken from a deep sleep, theres lights in your eyes, wheres your gun? Oh does it matter because there are 15 guns all pointing at your head at once ::)
Wake up and smell the coffee, these people are military trained, well out class a wannabe know it all.
The same methods used by the NAZI's were used by countless militaries over the world. And even law enforcement today.
Its effective and it works no matter how armed you are. If it didn't then the police would never arrest anyone, because ......oh lookie here the crims are ARMED ....fancy that ::)
There are still regions of the US that police will not step foot due to the level of armed gangs.
Look at the L.A. riots, a bunch of blacks went nuts and the people who stopped them were armed Korean store owners.
While it's true that SWAT kicking down someones door (thanks to no knock warrants) leaves the person fairly defenseless but they can't do it to every American, the number of armed Americans outnumber the police. The US government knows this and therefore realizes a gun ban would be suicide therefore they slowly take away our rights while justifying it in the name of a "safer society". It's all a baby step process.
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Yes civvies with gun's went nuts. And you want more civvies with more gun's unchecked.
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Yes civvies with gun's went nuts. And you want more civvies with more gun's unchecked.
Why is it the governments business what guns I own or what anyone else owns? The government should violate the constitution to keep people in check? A gun is a tool, we aren't responsible for what people decide to do with that tool. Civilians were left "unchecked" previous to 1968 and our murder rates were lower than they are now. I'm not willing to sacrifice my freedoms because society has supposedly changed.
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Make up your mind Cohen, you complain of crims with guns ruining your streets because the police can't get there, because of no controls on their gun ownership. Then you say the government has no business knowing about gun ownership. :-\
You can't have it both ways. You can't have a free for all without, people abusing the system or lack of it.
You are going around and around and not proving your point at all. As far as I see it, you are just sounding like a children wanting a new toy.
Give me solutions to the problems, not kiddy blabble.
Tell how would you create a law to protect the disabled.
This is the situation it this, pretend there are no gun laws at all. A person in a wheelchair gets in the way of a 16 year old kid. The kid gets angry, goes to the shop buys a gun, shots the wheelchair person dead. He gets away with it because the gun is untraceable.
You want a lawless society regarding guns, how did that protect the disabled, What would you do?
Then the kid goes, Frig off its my gun, I aint gonna give up, my right to own a gun.
Kids now 18 an adult, goes to a shop buys an AK47 and theres a bus load of wheelchair people............
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Oh yeah didn't think it doesn't happen, how many school shottings in America do you have because of kids with wannabe attitudes....... ::)
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Make up your mind Cohen, you complain of crims with guns ruining your streets because the police can't get there, because of no controls on their gun ownership. Then you say the government has no business knowing about gun ownership. :-\
You can't have it both ways. You can't have a free for all without, people abusing the system or lack of it.
You are going around and around and not proving your point at all. As far as I see it, you are just sounding like a children wanting a new toy.
Give me solutions to the problems, not kiddy blabble.
Tell how would you create a law to protect the disabled.
This is the situation it this, pretend there are no gun laws at all. A person in a wheelchair gets in the way of a 16 year old kid. The kid gets angry, goes to the shop buys a gun, shots the wheelchair person dead. He gets away with it because the gun is untraceable.
You want a lawless society regarding guns, how did that protect the disabled, What would you do?
Then the kid goes, Frig off its my gun, I aint gonna give up, my right to own a gun.
Kids now 18 an adult, goes to a shop buys an AK47 and theres a bus load of wheelchair people............
Of course there are criminals running around with guns, they break the law and get the guns illegally. Most criminals that are committing gun crimes are repeat offenders or convicted felons therefore they steal the guns or obtain them from the black market.
The disabled are already victims, many disabled take advantage of gun rights and are able to defend their lives to make up for their physical capability.
Notice how most of the shootings are in gun free zones where people can't legally own guns, odd how we don't see these mass shootings at NRA conventions or gun shows.
Again most of these school shootings are by kids who got the guns illegally, how do you think the Columbine kids got their guns? They didn't get them from their parents. They were both convicted on felony counts which prohibited them from legally possessing guns. Dylan Klebold obtained his TEC-DC9 from a private dealer which is a crime to sell a minor a handgun.
Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris obtained the 3 rifles (2 shotguns, 1 hi-point 995 rifle) through a strawpurchase (Robyn Anderson who was 18 years old).
If a person wants to break the law, they will do it.
More armed people = less criminals in society who are weeded out of the gene pool by armed citizens.
Solution to criminals? Stop giving them plea bargains and allowing them back onto the streets, keep them locked up or execute them. We are too soft on criminals.
Israel used to have a problem with school shootings as well, know how they fixed it? They armed the teachers and they haven't had a school shooting since.
The debate is counterproductive, so rather than focusing on "Gun control is bad, gun control is good" "My dad can beat up your dad" type arguments, lets hear what type of "reasonable" gun control you support and debate on the individual gun control issues and why they are ineffective.
Can you imagine if we called for bans on sports cars or raise the age of drivers license each time a 25 year old gets drunk with his friends and goes 80 mph down the road? Punish the individual, not the people who are responsible drivers.
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Solution to criminals? Stop giving them plea bargains and allowing them back onto the streets, keep them locked up or execute them. We are too soft on criminals.
So you would increase the laws on punishment like Nazi Germany did?
Is that your only solution?
OK you tighten punishments, the 18 year old kid now is 40 years old just got out of the nick, goes buys more guns and goes on a hunt of the people who punished him. Kills more people.....
So instead of stopping the killing you have just increased it.
What can you do to stop this man and many others???
BTW Disabled people are not victims ::)
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Solution to criminals? Stop giving them plea bargains and allowing them back onto the streets, keep them locked up or execute them. We are too soft on criminals.
So you would increase the laws on punishment like Nazi Germany did?
Is that your only solution?
OK you tighten punishments, the 18 year old kid now is 40 years old just got out of the nick, goes buys more guns and goes on a hunt of the people who punished him. Kills more people.....
So instead of stopping the killing you have just increased it.
What can you do to stop this man and many others???
BTW Disabled people are not victims ::)
I'm saying we are too lenient on punishment for criminals, we put rapists in prison and then they get released a few years later on a plea bargain and get to live in society again registered as a sex offender. Once a rapist, always a rapist. Best to execute them or keep them locked up.
Same with people who commit gun crimes, they get out on a plea bargain, the gun is blamed and apparently the individual is just "misguided", they get maybe a year or two in prison and free education through our prison system from tax payer dollars and then they are back to a life of crime because they realize no one will hire a convicted felon and end up hating the world even more after being in prison.
illegal immigration, another issue. Our borders are wide open, how many gang members do you think come into this country? MS13 and others, obviously gangs need to protect their interests (drugs), why are these people released back into society? Execute them or keep them locked up.
Poverty, most of the crime ridden areas are poor blacks living in the city, why should we blame the guns? Lets call a spade a spade and admit there is a huge problem in this country with black on black crime.
Yes we have our white criminals that occasionally go on a shooting spree, allow people to be armed and they will be able to legally defend themselves. Gun free zones are victim disarmament zones. Look at the recent church shootings in Colorado, a lady with a concealment permit was able to kill the gunman before he was able to do anymore damage.
There have been many cases on college campuses where students who were armed were able to stop shooting like the Appalachian school of law. Virginia Tech had a policy against students being able to have guns so people were killed.
Again, we obviously didn't have near the murder rates previous to 1968 that we do now yet are gun laws are even more strict. Maybe it's because decent law abiding citizens can't arm themselves. Funny how some of the most violent areas in this country are regions of the US with the most strict gun laws like California or Washington DC, Chicago. Chicagos murder rate is so high that they've started to rule murders as "accidents" so it doesn't hurt tourism.
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the 18 year old kid now is 40 years old just got out of the nick, goes buys more guns and goes on a hunt of the people who punished him. Kills more people.....
How do you know that 40 year old will do that? Maybe he learned his lesson. With age (sometimes) comes wisdom.
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the 18 year old kid now is 40 years old just got out of the nick, goes buys more guns and goes on a hunt of the people who punished him. Kills more people.....
How do you know that 40 year old will do that? Maybe he learned his lesson. With age (sometimes) comes wisdom.
Gday Bob very easy, 22 years in a prison system they do not mellow.
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Gday :)
Gday Bob very easy, 22 years in a prison system they do not mellow.
I would think that most will, after many years in prison, I'm sure they would not want to go back or waste any more time on an event that was so Juvenal to begin with. Try being more optimistic and not so pessimistic, trust me, It's good for the soul. :)
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Again, we obviously didn't have near the murder rates previous to 1968 that we do now yet are gun laws are even more strict. Maybe it's because decent law abiding citizens can't arm themselves.
Correct me if I am wrong America has a culture belonging to the wild west, where the "law abiding citizens" slang a gun on there hips. And quite franky most of America has not advanced too much from that.
And yet even than many refused to carry a weapon.
And the logic was not to be afraid of a gun just be afraid of the shooter.
There was laws then, and many killings too. Did it prevent crime because you carried a gun? No it made little difference.
Why you ask?
Because as I have been trying to get you to think about was the men back then are far different to the men now.
A gun back then was a tool, something to be used, it rank as important as a good saddle and a horse.
Now a days it is seen as a measure of your manhood. Which is wrong.
Regardless of gun or not, the man standing in front of you must not be different at any stage.
Proof of this a good soldier can fight with what ever they can lay there hands on, or even bare handed.
Their gun is only a tool which they can use, and ranks in importance as their helmet, knife, pac.
Can you see the difference, I am saying you need to be more than just someone who carries a gun.
We spoke about C18, those guys are nothing with a weapon, do you want to be like them. You want Jews to have a false belief in weapons, instead of their own abilities.
Weapons in the hands of brainless twats are dangerous but easy to over power, weapons in the hands of skilled focused people are unstoppable.
You can only become skilled and learned if you are taught, and structured.
Not willy nilly gun ownership.
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Gday :)
Gday Bob very easy, 22 years in a prison system they do not mellow.
I would think that most will, after many years in prison, I'm sure they would not want to go back or waste any more time on an event that was so Juvenal to begin with. Try being more optimistic and not so pessimistic, trust me, It's good for the soul. :)
I am not optimistic or pessimistic I am a realist.
Welcome to the forum, wanna do an intro post O0 I am sure the rest of the forum will be glad to meet you.
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Your posts seem to indicate a more pessimistic tone than opptomistic, thats why I mentioned it. Im more a realist myself also. The USA is not still in the wild west culture, yet thats what people in other countries always seem to think, probably because they see nothing but Hollywood movies that dramatize those old days. Things are different here now, of course. I carry on a regular basis a 2" Bbl .38 Special, but Im not
carrying it so that I can measure my manhood, just for self protection. Carrying a firearm has not changed my everyday behavior. I still take the same precautions that I used to before I carried. The only difference is that I am armed now, most everywhere I go. I ain't John Wayne or a gangster wannabe.
BTW, A gun is still just a tool and gun ownership is not "nilly willy", in America, it's our 2nd Amendment right.
:)
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Your posts seem to indicate a more pessimistic tone than opptomistic, thats why I mentioned it. Im more a realist myself also. The USA is not still in the wild west culture, yet thats what people in other countries always seem to think, probably because they see nothing but Hollywood movies that dramatize those old days. Things are different here now, of course. I carry on a regular basis a 2" Bbl .38 Special, but Im not
carrying it so that I can measure my manhood, just for self protection. Carrying a firearm has not changed my everyday behavior. I still take the same precautions that I used to before I carried. The only difference is that I am armed now, most everywhere I go. I ain't John Wayne or a gangster wannabe.
BTW, A gun is still just a tool and gun ownership is not "nilly willy", in America, it's our 2nd Amendment right.
:)
Right or not, responsible gun ownership is not a catch phrase that America is famous for. More of its Famous for this phrase "rooting, tooting and shooting". :)
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Your posts seem to indicate a more pessimistic tone than opptomistic, thats why I mentioned it. Im more a realist myself also. The USA is not still in the wild west culture, yet thats what people in other countries always seem to think, probably because they see nothing but Hollywood movies that dramatize those old days. Things are different here now, of course. I carry on a regular basis a 2" Bbl .38 Special, but Im not
carrying it so that I can measure my manhood, just for self protection. Carrying a firearm has not changed my everyday behavior. I still take the same precautions that I used to before I carried. The only difference is that I am armed now, most everywhere I go. I ain't John Wayne or a gangster wannabe.
BTW, A gun is still just a tool and gun ownership is not "nilly willy", in America, it's our 2nd Amendment right.
:)
Right or not, responsible gun ownership is not a catch phrase that America is famous for. More of its Famous for this phrase "rooting, tooting and shooting". :)
yes ;)
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Interesting thoughts expressed here on this thread. You may say I am basised and your correct. My training and background dicates my activities.
I for one will always have a tool on me and or near me at all times. Due to enviroment I live in and my experiences in dealing with criminal elements in my society. Now if it causes someone to have a negative opinion of me so be it. When I am standing and breathing after a confrontation with an armed thug. Will your opinion still matter to me. I think Not. We can all go out and have a beer later and enjoy Life. :P