JTF.ORG Forum
Torah and Jewish Idea => Torah and Jewish Idea => Topic started by: Tzvi Ben Roshel1 on January 19, 2008, 06:38:35 PM
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01/08/08 Intermarriage
http://www.torahanytime.com/rav_mizrachi.html
-New Lecture, very important for all Jews to hear.
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I just added a poll to the lecture.
Why? Its not even a question, to even suggest that its allowed. But listin to it, its very important.
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Yes I agree it should be banned.
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I would just like to know who voted no (if it was a Jew).
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I voted that it should be banned. Intermarriage is insane especially when you realize that all the generations of jews before you have been cut off with your offspring.
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Who say the video? Did you like it? (im in the middle right now).
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Tzvi I am actually watching the frauds on Fox News now which is something I don't do often.
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It's only common sense that people of similar religions and cultures marry each other..
99.999% of the time whenever it is otherwise, it leads to disaster.
the .0001% that actually do it and succeed..well..I'll just .000000000000000000000000000000000000001% succeed...
So if you were to choose odds, you are better off goign with the same....
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I would just like to know who voted no (if it was a Jew).
An Anti-Semite or self-hating Jew must have voted no.
Is there a way to set the polls so admin can see who voted what?
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I would just like to know who voted no (if it was a Jew).
An Anti-Semite or self-hating Jew must have voted no.
Is there a way to set the polls so admin can see who voted what?
There is but it involves going through the database
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It's only common sense that people of similar religions and cultures marry each other..
99.999% of the time whenever it is otherwise, it leads to disaster.
the .0001% that actually do it and succeed..well..I'll just .000000000000000000000000000000000000001% succeed...
So if you were to choose odds, you are better off goign with the same....
Not in this case, this is 100% horrible and diasterous, even if the child converts and becomes the biggest Rabbi in Israel. Please hear the video, you will understand.
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It's only common sense that people of similar religions and cultures marry each other..
99.999% of the time whenever it is otherwise, it leads to disaster.
the .0001% that actually do it and succeed..well..I'll just .000000000000000000000000000000000000001% succeed...
So if you were to choose odds, you are better off goign with the same....
Not in this case, this is 100% horrible and diasterous, even if the child converts and becomes the biggest Rabbi in Israel. Please hear the video, you will understand.
Do I have to argue with you again over .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%?!
It's 99.9999999999999999999999999999% disastreous...ok? that's such an insignificant difference from 100%...
you have to have it your way or the highway right? Well, I'm not budging even .00000000000000000000000000000000001%!
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It's only common sense that people of similar religions and cultures marry each other..
99.999% of the time whenever it is otherwise, it leads to disaster.
the .0001% that actually do it and succeed..well..I'll just .000000000000000000000000000000000000001% succeed...
So if you were to choose odds, you are better off goign with the same....
Not in this case, this is 100% horrible and diasterous, even if the child converts and becomes the biggest Rabbi in Israel. Please hear the video, you will understand.
Do I have to argue with you again over .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%?!
It's 99.9999999999999999999999999999% disastreous...ok? that's such an insignificant difference from 100%...
you have to have it your way or the highway right? Well, I'm not budging even .00000000000000000000000000000000001%!
Again, this isn't my way, or the way of the Rabbi, he is only quoting from G-d's Torah. So yes once again you are wrong (sorry to hurt your feelings, but even your .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 is wrong according to the word of G-d.
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Do you mean religious or racial intermarriage? ???
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The surest method to use if you want people to engage in some particular behavior, is to ban it!
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I don't support intermarriage, I myself won't intermarry but that is a individuals decision so I voted no.
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I don't support intermarriage, I myself won't intermarry but that is a individuals decision so I voted no.
EDIT: I thought this was about interracial marriage, change my vote to yes.
But your not Jewish, if I remember correctly, unless im mistaking you with someone else.
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Do you mean religious or racial intermarriage? ???
I didn't make a poll, but this thread was put by me so that Jews would watch that important video. So its religious intermarriage specifically for Jews.
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I don't support intermarriage, I myself won't intermarry but that is a individuals decision so I voted no.
EDIT: I thought this was about interracial marriage, change my vote to yes.
But your not Jewish, if I remember correctly, unless im mistaking you with someone else.
My mothers Jewish (German Catholic originally, converted Orthodox), and my father was Jewish (hence my last name). I don't know why people keep asking this, I guess i'll have to scan my circumcision certificate.
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It's only common sense that people of similar religions and cultures marry each other..
99.999% of the time whenever it is otherwise, it leads to disaster.
the .0001% that actually do it and succeed..well..I'll just .000000000000000000000000000000000000001% succeed...
So if you were to choose odds, you are better off goign with the same....
Not in this case, this is 100% horrible and diasterous, even if the child converts and becomes the biggest Rabbi in Israel. Please hear the video, you will understand.
Do I have to argue with you again over .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%?!
It's 99.9999999999999999999999999999% disastreous...ok? that's such an insignificant difference from 100%...
you have to have it your way or the highway right? Well, I'm not budging even .00000000000000000000000000000000001%!
Again, this isn't my way, or the way of the Rabbi, he is only quoting from G-d's Torah. So yes once again you are wrong (sorry to hurt your feelings, but even your .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 is wrong according to the word of G-d.
Then I will disagree wtih Gd .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% or 10^-23%....
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I don't support intermarriage, I myself won't intermarry but that is a individuals decision so I voted no.
EDIT: I thought this was about interracial marriage, change my vote to yes.
But your not Jewish, if I remember correctly, unless im mistaking you with someone else.
My mothers Jewish (German Catholic originally, converted Orthodox), and my father was Jewish (hence my last name). I don't know why people keep asking this, I guess i'll have to scan my circumcision certificate.
Because I belive that you posted some time ago that your mothers not Jewish, I dont know. Does your mother keep all the Mitzvot applicable for a Jewish women? and are you religious?
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It's only common sense that people of similar religions and cultures marry each other..
99.999% of the time whenever it is otherwise, it leads to disaster.
the .0001% that actually do it and succeed..well..I'll just .000000000000000000000000000000000000001% succeed...
So if you were to choose odds, you are better off goign with the same....
Not in this case, this is 100% horrible and diasterous, even if the child converts and becomes the biggest Rabbi in Israel. Please hear the video, you will understand.
Do I have to argue with you again over .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%?!
It's 99.9999999999999999999999999999% disastreous...ok? that's such an insignificant difference from 100%...
you have to have it your way or the highway right? Well, I'm not budging even .00000000000000000000000000000000001%!
Again, this isn't my way, or the way of the Rabbi, he is only quoting from G-d's Torah. So yes once again you are wrong (sorry to hurt your feelings, but even your .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 is wrong according to the word of G-d.
Then I will disagree wtih Gd .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% or 10^-23%....
Then you ask people to respect you, and to make your opinions valid, as if its part of Judasim?
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Re: "...I would just like to know who voted no (if it was a Jew)..."
Well, if you didn't want anyone to vote "no", then why did you list it as one of the possible choices?
Why didn't you ban voting 'no'?
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I don't support intermarriage, I myself won't intermarry but that is a individuals decision so I voted no.
EDIT: I thought this was about interracial marriage, change my vote to yes.
But your not Jewish, if I remember correctly, unless im mistaking you with someone else.
My mothers Jewish (German Catholic originally, converted Orthodox), and my father was Jewish (hence my last name). I don't know why people keep asking this, I guess i'll have to scan my circumcision certificate.
Because I belive that you posted some time ago that your mothers not Jewish, I dont know. Does your mother keep all the Mitzvot applicable for a Jewish women? and are you religious?
I'm not religious (as in attend synagogue since there isn't one here), I don't know what my mother practices now, but some of the members may have gotten the wrong impression because I had mentioned my mother was of German background so they may have assumed that meant she wasn't Jewish? I don't think she currently considers herself Jewish but at the time of her conversion before she had kids, that would have made me Jewish.
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I would just like to know who voted no (if it was a Jew).
An Anti-Semite or self-hating Jew must have voted no.
Is there a way to set the polls so admin can see who voted what?
no :::D :::D :::D
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I don't support intermarriage, I myself won't intermarry but that is a individuals decision so I voted no.
EDIT: I thought this was about interracial marriage, change my vote to yes.
But your not Jewish, if I remember correctly, unless im mistaking you with someone else.
My mothers Jewish (German Catholic originally, converted Orthodox), and my father was Jewish (hence my last name). I don't know why people keep asking this, I guess i'll have to scan my circumcision certificate.
Because I belive that you posted some time ago that your mothers not Jewish, I dont know. Does your mother keep all the Mitzvot applicable for a Jewish women? and are you religious?
I'm not religious (as in attend synagogue since there isn't one here), I don't know what my mother practices now, but some of the members may have gotten the wrong impression because I had mentioned my mother was of German background so they may have assumed that meant she wasn't Jewish? I don't think she currently considers herself Jewish but at the time of her conversion before she had kids, that would have made me Jewish.
Shul is one thing, but not to offend you, you have to check very well with a Kosher Orthodox court, to determine your status of being Jewish or not. This is very important expecially when it will come to marriage, etc.
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Re: "...I would just like to know who voted no (if it was a Jew)..."
Well, if you didn't want anyone to vote "no", then why did you list it as one of the possible choices?
Why didn't you ban voting 'no'?
I didn't make the poll, Yakov put it on.
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I don't support intermarriage, I myself won't intermarry but that is a individuals decision so I voted no.
EDIT: I thought this was about interracial marriage, change my vote to yes.
But your not Jewish, if I remember correctly, unless im mistaking you with someone else.
My mothers Jewish (German Catholic originally, converted Orthodox), and my father was Jewish (hence my last name). I don't know why people keep asking this, I guess i'll have to scan my circumcision certificate.
Because I belive that you posted some time ago that your mothers not Jewish, I dont know. Does your mother keep all the Mitzvot applicable for a Jewish women? and are you religious?
I'm not religious (as in attend synagogue since there isn't one here), I don't know what my mother practices now, but some of the members may have gotten the wrong impression because I had mentioned my mother was of German background so they may have assumed that meant she wasn't Jewish? I don't think she currently considers herself Jewish but at the time of her conversion before she had kids, that would have made me Jewish.
Shul is one thing, but not to offend you, you have to check very well with a Kosher Orthodox court, to determine your status of being Jewish or not. This is very important expecially when it will come to marriage, etc.
Why would my Jewishness be in question if my mother converted Orthodox?
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I don't support intermarriage, I myself won't intermarry but that is a individuals decision so I voted no.
EDIT: I thought this was about interracial marriage, change my vote to yes.
But your not Jewish, if I remember correctly, unless im mistaking you with someone else.
My mothers Jewish (German Catholic originally, converted Orthodox), and my father was Jewish (hence my last name). I don't know why people keep asking this, I guess i'll have to scan my circumcision certificate.
Because I belive that you posted some time ago that your mothers not Jewish, I dont know. Does your mother keep all the Mitzvot applicable for a Jewish women? and are you religious?
I'm not religious (as in attend synagogue since there isn't one here), I don't know what my mother practices now, but some of the members may have gotten the wrong impression because I had mentioned my mother was of German background so they may have assumed that meant she wasn't Jewish? I don't think she currently considers herself Jewish but at the time of her conversion before she had kids, that would have made me Jewish.
Shul is one thing, but not to offend you, you have to check very well with a Kosher Orthodox court, to determine your status of being Jewish or not. This is very important expecially when it will come to marriage, etc.
Why would my Jewishness be in question if my mother converted Orthodox?
Because someone who converted Beemet (in Truth) wouldn't then not keep the laws. This might retroactivly invalidate the conversion, but im not a Rav, so I wont pass the judgement, but you should definitly go to a Jewish court/ or valid Rav, and tell the whole story from A to Z, asap.
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With all said and done, did any Jew here listin to the lecture?, Did you like it? Learn something new? Please add comments. (I would like to at least know if someone listined.)
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It's only common sense that people of similar religions and cultures marry each other..
99.999% of the time whenever it is otherwise, it leads to disaster.
the .0001% that actually do it and succeed..well..I'll just .000000000000000000000000000000000000001% succeed...
So if you were to choose odds, you are better off goign with the same....
Not in this case, this is 100% horrible and diasterous, even if the child converts and becomes the biggest Rabbi in Israel. Please hear the video, you will understand.
Do I have to argue with you again over .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%?!
It's 99.9999999999999999999999999999% disastreous...ok? that's such an insignificant difference from 100%...
you have to have it your way or the highway right? Well, I'm not budging even .00000000000000000000000000000000001%!
Again, this isn't my way, or the way of the Rabbi, he is only quoting from G-d's Torah. So yes once again you are wrong (sorry to hurt your feelings, but even your .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 is wrong according to the word of G-d.
Then I will disagree wtih Gd .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% or 10^-23%....
Then you ask people to respect you, and to make your opinions valid, as if its part of Judasim?
Tzvi, you are a religious nut..that's why..I'm not disagreeing with Gd..I'm disagreeing with your view on Judaism, Torah, and Gd...And I'm disagreeing with your arrogance because you act as if you are an authority to the Torah...you are as small as me in Gd's eyes..
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It's only common sense that people of similar religions and cultures marry each other..
99.999% of the time whenever it is otherwise, it leads to disaster.
the .0001% that actually do it and succeed..well..I'll just .000000000000000000000000000000000000001% succeed...
So if you were to choose odds, you are better off goign with the same....
Not in this case, this is 100% horrible and diasterous, even if the child converts and becomes the biggest Rabbi in Israel. Please hear the video, you will understand.
Do I have to argue with you again over .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%?!
It's 99.9999999999999999999999999999% disastreous...ok? that's such an insignificant difference from 100%...
you have to have it your way or the highway right? Well, I'm not budging even .00000000000000000000000000000000001%!
Again, this isn't my way, or the way of the Rabbi, he is only quoting from G-d's Torah. So yes once again you are wrong (sorry to hurt your feelings, but even your .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 is wrong according to the word of G-d.
Then I will disagree wtih Gd .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% or 10^-23%....
Then you ask people to respect you, and to make your opinions valid, as if its part of Judasim?
Tzvi, you are a religious nut..that's why..I'm not disagreeing with Gd..I'm disagreeing with your view on Judaism, Torah, and Gd...And I'm disagreeing with your arrogance because you act as if you are an authority to the Torah...you are as small as me in Gd's eyes..
::) , thank you. Listin to the lecture, I never took any credit for myself, the sources are straight from Tannah, would you agree that it is the word of G-d? or you have a question on that also? Just listin to the lecture first, you allways argue without seeing the other side, I personally dont have anything agains't you, but you cant make false claims, you want to call me arrogant, okay, G-d will judge, but at least listin to the lecture and dont make false statements (again and again) based on ignorance.
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If converted Jewish person,stops attending synagoge is that peson still Jewish or not?Can somebody answer me?
You would have to ask a Rav for this particular thing, because attending synagoge is from the Rabbis. But if its Shabb-t then I have no doubt, but either way this subject expecially should be aked to a kosher Orthodox Rabbinic court or Rabbi.
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If converted Jewish person,stops attending synagoge is that peson still Jewish or not?Can somebody answer me?
You would have to ask a Rav for this particular thing, because attending synagoge is from the Rabbis. But if its Shabbat then I have no doubt, but either way this subject expecially should be aked to a kosher Orthodox Rabbinic court or Rabbi.
What if they pray at home?
Actually it is mentioned in this particular leacture also. But I do know that their are leniencies by some to be allowed to pray alone (for example Rav Ovadia Yosef states so - if when you pray its harder for you to concentrate with a minyan), BUT the prayers are much quickly answered and better when its together with a minyan. (also check this lecture, he does mention this also here).
Either way, for example touching the light once on Shabb-t is worse then not coming to shul. (one is from the Torah and the other is great to do, but Midarabannan. - Dont get me wrong its also very great, but if one wants to know where to start, then Midaoraita is much more important to start and put more of the efforts).
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It's only common sense that people of similar religions and cultures marry each other..
99.999% of the time whenever it is otherwise, it leads to disaster.
the .0001% that actually do it and succeed..well..I'll just .000000000000000000000000000000000000001% succeed...
So if you were to choose odds, you are better off goign with the same....
Not in this case, this is 100% horrible and diasterous, even if the child converts and becomes the biggest Rabbi in Israel. Please hear the video, you will understand.
Do I have to argue with you again over .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%?!
It's 99.9999999999999999999999999999% disastreous...ok? that's such an insignificant difference from 100%...
you have to have it your way or the highway right? Well, I'm not budging even .00000000000000000000000000000000001%!
Again, this isn't my way, or the way of the Rabbi, he is only quoting from G-d's Torah. So yes once again you are wrong (sorry to hurt your feelings, but even your .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 is wrong according to the word of G-d.
Then I will disagree wtih Gd .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% or 10^-23%....
Then you ask people to respect you, and to make your opinions valid, as if its part of Judasim?
Tzvi, you are a religious nut..that's why..I'm not disagreeing with Gd..I'm disagreeing with your view on Judaism, Torah, and Gd...And I'm disagreeing with your arrogance because you act as if you are an authority to the Torah...you are as small as me in Gd's eyes..
Dan, I find it very hard to believe that you believe what you're saying. I challenge you to find one Rabbi who would tell you that intermarriage is ok, even .0000000000000000000000001 percent of the time. You are disagreeing with G-d.
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Every Jew - please watch this very important video + please send it to any Jewish male and female you know. Your merit will be great for the Torah studying + you can save a soul, if they were concidering doing this act (not only marrying but also having relations even once).
Also please speak up if you watched it.
+ he mentiones about the arabs being peri adam- I know that the Kahanists would particullarly love it.
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Thank you>
I feel if you converte into Jewish faith,then stay.Go to synagoge!
This is happening all the time!
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If converted Jewish person,stops attending synagoge is that peson still Jewish or not?Can somebody answer me?
You would have to ask a Rav for this particular thing, because attending synagoge is from the Rabbis. But if its Shabbat then I have no doubt, but either way this subject expecially should be aked to a kosher Orthodox Rabbinic court or Rabbi.
What if they pray at home?
Thats what I do, the closest synagoge for me is over an hour away.
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It's only common sense that people of similar religions and cultures marry each other..
99.999% of the time whenever it is otherwise, it leads to disaster.
the .0001% that actually do it and succeed..well..I'll just .000000000000000000000000000000000000001% succeed...
So if you were to choose odds, you are better off goign with the same....
Not in this case, this is 100% horrible and diasterous, even if the child converts and becomes the biggest Rabbi in Israel. Please hear the video, you will understand.
Do I have to argue with you again over .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%?!
It's 99.9999999999999999999999999999% disastreous...ok? that's such an insignificant difference from 100%...
you have to have it your way or the highway right? Well, I'm not budging even .00000000000000000000000000000000001%!
Again, this isn't my way, or the way of the Rabbi, he is only quoting from G-d's Torah. So yes once again you are wrong (sorry to hurt your feelings, but even your .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 is wrong according to the word of G-d.
Then I will disagree wtih Gd .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% or 10^-23%....
Then you ask people to respect you, and to make your opinions valid, as if its part of Judasim?
Tzvi, you are a religious nut..that's why..I'm not disagreeing with Gd..I'm disagreeing with your view on Judaism, Torah, and Gd...And I'm disagreeing with your arrogance because you act as if you are an authority to the Torah...you are as small as me in Gd's eyes..
Dan, I find it very hard to believe that you believe what you're saying. I challenge you to find one Rabbi who would tell you that intermarriage is ok, even .0000000000000000000000001 percent of the time. You are disagreeing with G-d.
Why do i say, "10^-23% of the time?" Because there are a lot of children born from intermarried couples...yes we dont' like it... However, by saying we are 100% against, we are claiming that those people born to intermarried couples have no right to live...So please spare me!
I would never let my own children intermarry nor shoudl any Jew. The point I'm trying to make with this 100% thing is that there are already people who exist with living offspring from these intermarraiges..and by claiming 100%, you discount their lives.
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"Why do i say, "10^-23% of the time?" Because there are a lot of children born from intermarried couples...yes we dont' like it... However, by saying we are 100% against, we are claiming that those people born to intermarried couples have no right to live...So please spare me!
I would never let my own children intermarry nor shoudl any Jew. The point I'm trying to make with this 100% thing is that there are already people who exist with living offspring from these intermarraiges..and by claiming 100%, you discount their lives."
So, cheating is allowed? even if its .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000001 % ?
beacause if we say no, and the child (who is a mamzer) might be offended?
Stop making your own rules, and "being nice" , lets stick to the rules of G-d and not be reform.
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I'm watching it right now. The problem is - it's very long, and I don't think someone who's not really interested would watch the whole thing.
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So, cheating is allowed?
Is shooting them allowed?
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I'm watching it right now. The problem is - it's very long, and I don't think someone who's not really interested would watch the whole thing.
Just 2 hours, I promise you I watched it twice tonight (so anyone can watch it once). Either way, if you send it to someone and they listin then its great (both for you and him or her), but if not then at least you took a chance, worse comes to worse, anyone can watch one hour tonight and another hour tomm for example, but I dont belive that anyone is that bissy that they can spend 2 hours (or at least an hour at a time) just watching a video.
- Also anyone who is on the computer for example, going on a forum or doing other things, surly does not have an excuse not to, because they make time reading and writing on a forum (even if its a good forum, etc.) , but cant make time to listin to words of G-d?
-And I dont know if everyone is able to do this- but people can lstin and do other things at once, like be on this forum and listin, or download it, and listin when they are walking somewhere or working out or anything that doesn't involve listiing to something else.
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" voted that it should be banned. Intermarriage is insane especially when you realize that all the generations of jews before you have been cut off with your offspring"
Generations before you cut off? What are you referring to?
In addition, your previous post referred to a potential child of intermarriage as a mamzer. But this is not what is defined as a mamzer. A Jewish child born to a non-Jewish father (ie the mother was Jewish and the father not Jewish) is not a mamzer.
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Many Jewish people adopt a child!Is it Jewish if ,child became good and honest Jewish person?
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I oppose intermarriage between Jews and Gentiles. Banning it? It's already banned by the Torah!!!!! Banning it by civil law? It would be right but....how?
Who is a Jew in the eyes of Goyshe authorities? To ban intermarriage and punish it by secular Goyshe govts, those Govts and all its officials should accept the orthodox definition of who is a Jew. That implies that they must become all pure Noahides, that all other religions must be outlawed. It's a difficult issue.
Up till 2004, Let-be-land was strictly forbidden to deal with any foreign nation which allowed intermarriage or allowed parents to bring up Jewish children not according to Torah. That clause was dropped when the Constitution was enacted. It was impossible to demand a foreign Gentile Govt. to make the hallachic distinction between a real Jew and an invalid convert!
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hmmm.
In Israel maybe. In USA no.
I also think if a guy wants to marry a non-Jewish woman who is a gentile (if she doesn't worship any idols or isn't into pushing any new age stuff), that it shouldn't be too hard for her to convert.
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I don't support intermarriage, I myself won't intermarry but that is a individuals decision so I voted no.
EDIT: I thought this was about interracial marriage, change my vote to yes.
But your not Jewish, if I remember correctly, unless im mistaking you with someone else.
My mothers Jewish (German Catholic originally, converted Orthodox), and my father was Jewish (hence my last name). I don't know why people keep asking this, I guess i'll have to scan my circumcision certificate.
Because I belive that you posted some time ago that your mothers not Jewish, I dont know. Does your mother keep all the Mitzvot applicable for a Jewish women? and are you religious?
I'm not religious (as in attend synagogue since there isn't one here), I don't know what my mother practices now, but some of the members may have gotten the wrong impression because I had mentioned my mother was of German background so they may have assumed that meant she wasn't Jewish? I don't think she currently considers herself Jewish but at the time of her conversion before she had kids, that would have made me Jewish.
Shul is one thing, but not to offend you, you have to check very well with a Kosher Orthodox court, to determine your status of being Jewish or not. This is very important expecially when it will come to marriage, etc.
Why would my Jewishness be in question if my mother converted Orthodox?
Because someone who converted Beemet (in Truth) wouldn't then not keep the laws. This might retroactivly invalidate the conversion, but im not a Rav, so I wont pass the judgement, but you should definitly go to a Jewish court/ or valid Rav, and tell the whole story from A to Z, asap.
I've heard of the retroactive invalidation as far as the MOTHER is concerned, but does the retroactive invalidation affect her offspring as well? I remember there was a controversial case that invalidated the conversion of the mother, and that those types of decisions are quite rare.
I find it hard to believe that there could be an invalidation of a woman's offspring, after he or she was Jewish for many, many years.
About the "in truth" conversion, is the fact that a woman stops observing the laws after converting automatic and conclusive evidence that she did not intend to convert in truth to begin with, or does this just tend to show a presumption that she never intended to keep the laws to begin with?
If a woman converts legitimately to Judaism, does the fact that she stops adhering to the laws after her children are born automatically make them non-Jewish (if they don't convert)?
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I didn't make a poll, but this thread was put by me so that Jews would watch that important video. So its religious intermarriage specifically for Jews.
Then I am completely against it.
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Many Jewish people adopt a child!Is it Jewish if ,child became good and honest Jewish person?
That i can answer, and yes they do O0
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Is it intermarriage, if in example a Catholic marries a Baptist?
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How about rabbis who take part in that type of marriage scenario, lose their certification of being a rabbi.
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Whoever Voted 'No', admit it.
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Whoever Voted 'No', admit it.
I have voted no, because I believe that an intermarriage-law is only the right for the Jewish state Israel.
The Jews in the dispora should choose other ways to avoid intermarriage, like social pressure and education.
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Whoever Voted 'No', admit it.
I did, what should i do check everyone and order people what to do?
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Whoever Voted 'No', admit it.
:::D :::D no one has to admit anything.
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Whoever Voted 'No', admit it.
I have voted no, because I believe that an intermarriage-law is only the right for the Jewish state Israel.
The Jews in the dispora should choose other ways to avoid intermarriage, like social pressure and education.
Maybe the author of the thread wasn't clear enough but he was referring to Jews making laws about Jews. Such as having a law that rabbis would be prohibited from doing an intermarriage ceremony.
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Whoever Voted 'No', admit it.
I have voted no, because I believe that an intermarriage-law is only the right for the Jewish state Israel.
The Jews in the dispora should choose other ways to avoid intermarriage, like social pressure and education.
Maybe the author of the thread wasn't clear enough but he was referring to Jews making laws about Jews. Such as having a law that rabbis would be prohibited from doing an intermarriage ceremony.
Sorry
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It's only common sense that people of similar religions and cultures marry each other..
99.999% of the time whenever it is otherwise, it leads to disaster.
the .0001% that actually do it and succeed..well..I'll just .000000000000000000000000000000000000001% succeed...
So if you were to choose odds, you are better off goign with the same....
Not in this case, this is 100% horrible and diasterous, even if the child converts and becomes the biggest Rabbi in Israel. Please hear the video, you will understand.
Do I have to argue with you again over .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%?!
It's 99.9999999999999999999999999999% disastreous...ok? that's such an insignificant difference from 100%...
you have to have it your way or the highway right? Well, I'm not budging even .00000000000000000000000000000000001%!
Again, this isn't my way, or the way of the Rabbi, he is only quoting from G-d's Torah. So yes once again you are wrong (sorry to hurt your feelings, but even your .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 is wrong according to the word of G-d.
Then I will disagree wtih Gd .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% or 10^-23%....
Then you ask people to respect you, and to make your opinions valid, as if its part of Judasim?
Tzvi, you are a religious nut..that's why..I'm not disagreeing with Gd..I'm disagreeing with your view on Judaism, Torah, and Gd...And I'm disagreeing with your arrogance because you act as if you are an authority to the Torah...you are as small as me in Gd's eyes..
Dan, I find it very hard to believe that you believe what you're saying. I challenge you to find one Rabbi who would tell you that intermarriage is ok, even .0000000000000000000000001 percent of the time. You are disagreeing with G-d.
Why do i say, "10^-23% of the time?" Because there are a lot of children born from intermarried couples...yes we dont' like it... However, by saying we are 100% against, we are claiming that those people born to intermarried couples have no right to live...So please spare me!
I would never let my own children intermarry nor shoudl any Jew. The point I'm trying to make with this 100% thing is that there are already people who exist with living offspring from these intermarraiges..and by claiming 100%, you discount their lives.
What? How is saying that I'm against intermarriages 100% of the time saying that the children from said couples don't have a right to live?
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I would need to know what exactly does intermarriage mean... between different religious backgrounds or what?
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How about rabbis who take part in that type of marriage scenario, lose their certification of being a rabbi.
That wouldn't be a problem, because no Rabbi would ever do such a thing.
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I would need to know what exactly does intermarriage mean... between different religious backgrounds or what?
Marriage between a Jew and a non-Jew.
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"Why do i say, "10^-23% of the time?" Because there are a lot of children born from intermarried couples...yes we dont' like it... However, by saying we are 100% against, we are claiming that those people born to intermarried couples have no right to live...So please spare me!
I would never let my own children intermarry nor shoudl any Jew. The point I'm trying to make with this 100% thing is that there are already people who exist with living offspring from these intermarraiges..and by claiming 100%, you discount their lives."
So, cheating is allowed? even if its .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000001 % ?
beacause if we say no, and the child (who is a mamzer) might be offended?
Stop making your own rules, and "being nice" , lets stick to the rules of G-d and not be reform.
Mamzer?! i wasn't talkign about cheating..I was talking about honest people who have already intermarried and have children and have happy lives...
Talk about changing the subject...Let's stick to this one about intermarriage.
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Is it intermarriage, if in example a Catholic marries a Baptist?
It depends on the catholic and baptist...
Here, we are referring to Jews marrying non-Jews.
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I admit that I said no..because the question is NOT clear to me...Ban intermarriage of whom and where in this world?
If the law of the land followed enforced Torah law, then intermarriage of a Jew to a non-Jew is automatically forbidden by the rule itself..so the question is moot and this poll is retarded, no offense Yaacov. It's not up to me to decide the law..the law is the law, I have to follow it.
In the USA, it woudl be unlawful for what this country stands for to make intermarriage illegal. Because this country is not a country that bases itself after a specific theology. Citizens can make a rule within their own families to forbid intermarraige. I know I would enforce it within my own home. I would hope all Jews would forbid their children to intermarry.
Now, some slip through the cracks and the vast majority lose themselves almost forever from the Jewish community. It's a horrible thing and therefore I would strongly forbid it in my own home and highly recommend other Jews to avoid it.
There is a teeny tiny tiny teeny fraction that actually get away with having a viable marriage with viable children who dont' lose their way and in fact become great Jews and great people...Don't ask me how..I have seen it happen. But like I said, basically hardly ever...I don't like the odds.
Likewise, didn't Moses marry a Midianite woman. Midianites are not Jews... So please explain this. Certainly, non of us are Moses, but if it is 100% forbidden and not close to a 100% by a fraction that is negligable, then aren't we defaming Moses?
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how about if a non Jew marries a Jew and the non Jew converts to Judaism in the process... or vice versa?
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How about rabbis who take part in that type of marriage scenario, lose their certification of being a rabbi.
I feel that Rabbis should not grant these intermarriage scenarios..I get sick in the stomach when i see it happen.
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It's only common sense that people of similar religions and cultures marry each other..
99.999% of the time whenever it is otherwise, it leads to disaster.
the .0001% that actually do it and succeed..well..I'll just .000000000000000000000000000000000000001% succeed...
So if you were to choose odds, you are better off goign with the same....
Not in this case, this is 100% horrible and diasterous, even if the child converts and becomes the biggest Rabbi in Israel. Please hear the video, you will understand.
Do I have to argue with you again over .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%?!
It's 99.9999999999999999999999999999% disastreous...ok? that's such an insignificant difference from 100%...
you have to have it your way or the highway right? Well, I'm not budging even .00000000000000000000000000000000001%!
Again, this isn't my way, or the way of the Rabbi, he is only quoting from G-d's Torah. So yes once again you are wrong (sorry to hurt your feelings, but even your .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 is wrong according to the word of G-d.
Then I will disagree wtih Gd .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% or 10^-23%....
Then you ask people to respect you, and to make your opinions valid, as if its part of Judasim?
Tzvi, you are a religious nut..that's why..I'm not disagreeing with Gd..I'm disagreeing with your view on Judaism, Torah, and Gd...And I'm disagreeing with your arrogance because you act as if you are an authority to the Torah...you are as small as me in Gd's eyes..
Dan, I find it very hard to believe that you believe what you're saying. I challenge you to find one Rabbi who would tell you that intermarriage is ok, even .0000000000000000000000001 percent of the time. You are disagreeing with G-d.
Why do i say, "10^-23% of the time?" Because there are a lot of children born from intermarried couples...yes we dont' like it... However, by saying we are 100% against, we are claiming that those people born to intermarried couples have no right to live...So please spare me!
I would never let my own children intermarry nor shoudl any Jew. The point I'm trying to make with this 100% thing is that there are already people who exist with living offspring from these intermarraiges..and by claiming 100%, you discount their lives.
What? How is saying that I'm against intermarriages 100% of the time saying that the children from said couples don't have a right to live?
;) You didn't...
What I'm trying to say with my percentage which might as well be 0% is that sometimes you can't stop a destiny from taking place...you can punish and you can disown and you can hate and you can scream and yell and you can put in jail etc etc...if two people of the opposite sex are goign to get together and stay together no matter what and then they end up having viable children who end up being decent people and great Jews which RARELY happens, you really can't say exactly 100%, but you can say close to it.
I added something else before this too...so i won't bother rewriting it.
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How about rabbis who take part in that type of marriage scenario, lose their certification of being a rabbi.
That wouldn't be a problem, because no Rabbi would ever do such a thing.
Real rabbis wouldn't.
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how about if a non Jew marries a Jew and the non Jew converts to Judaism in the process... or vice versa?
It depends how genuine the converting person is..If someone is converting to Judaism to get married to a Jew, then it's wrong. A lot of people get away with this.
If someone is like Mills, and is genuine in her conversion and is converting and doing a great job of it, then that's just as good as a jew marrying a jew.
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damn you..you moved it here again!
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Likewise, didn't Moses marry a Midianite woman. Midianites are not Jews... So please explain this. Certainly, non of us are Moses, but if it is 100% forbidden and not close to a 100% by a fraction that is negligable, then aren't we defaming Moses?
;D , I told you a looong time, that if you would watch the video posted, then ALL of your questions would allready be answered.
What you said was exactly what Zimri the prince from the Tribe of Shimon said, when he took the Midianite women, Moshe remained silent and he went to the tent and had relations with that women, then comes Pinhas, takes a spear and kills both of them, and is Blessed by G-d to be a special Kohen. (the difference between Moshe and the rest is that she converted properly).
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Likewise, didn't Moses marry a Midianite woman. Midianites are not Jews... So please explain this. Certainly, non of us are Moses, but if it is 100% forbidden and not close to a 100% by a fraction that is negligable, then aren't we defaming Moses?
;D , I told you a looong time, that if you would watch the video posted, then ALL of your questions would allready be answered.
What you said was exactly what Zimri the prince from the Tribe of Shimon said, when he took the Midianite women, Moshe remained silent and he went to the tent and had relations with that women, then comes Pinhas, takes a spear and kills both of them, and is Blessed by G-d to be a special Kohen. (the difference between Moshe and the rest is that she converted properly).
Wait i'm confused...
Pinhas killed Moses's wife? Or Zimri tried to imitate Moses and Pinhas killed his wife? say it again...this is interesting.
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I think this was sort of a unique situation. I could be wrong and may not have the story correct...
But didn't an enemy (was it Baalam?) send a gaggle of Midianite hookers to get dolled up and tempt the men of Israel?
I think maybe this case would be different from one where a Jew and non-Jew met regularly.
The specific set up of the Midianite women in the Pinchas story was from the beginning a plot to kill Jews.
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Likewise, didn't Moses marry a Midianite woman. Midianites are not Jews... So please explain this. Certainly, non of us are Moses, but if it is 100% forbidden and not close to a 100% by a fraction that is negligable, then aren't we defaming Moses?
;D , I told you a looong time, that if you would watch the video posted, then ALL of your questions would allready be answered.
What you said was exactly what Zimri the prince from the Tribe of Shimon said, when he took the Midianite women, Moshe remained silent and he went to the tent and had relations with that women, then comes Pinhas, takes a spear and kills both of them, and is Blessed by G-d to be a special Kohen. (the difference between Moshe and the rest is that she converted properly).
Wait i'm confused...
Pinhas killed Moses's wife? Or Zimri tried to imitate Moses and Pinhas killed his wife? say it again...this is interesting.
Pinhas killed Zimri and his midianite non-Jewish women who he was having relations with. If you are really interested then listin to the whole lecture. (also the other one named - Pinhas Gan Eden Baal Tishuva, which also deals with it).
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I think this was sort of a unique situation. I could be wrong and may not have the story correct...
But didn't an enemy (was it Baalam?) send a gaggle of Midianite hookers to get dolled up and tempt the men of Israel?
I think maybe this case would be different from one where a Jew and non-Jew met regularly.
The specific set up of the Midianite women in the Pinchas story was from the beginning a plot to kill Jews.
Yes you are right, but still its something that is allways Disgusting in G-d's eyes, even one encounter. And the Halacha Technically is that if someone is having sex with a non-Jewish women, at the exact time (not before or later), one can barge in and kill both of them, BUT the person who can do this is only someone who is like Pinhas who is Zealous for G-d, someone who is completly connected to G-d and is Zealous for G-d, and just like G-d is disgusted by this so is he (no one here is on that level, BUT we can see what G-d thinks about this act).
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I think this was sort of a unique situation. I could be wrong and may not have the story correct...
But didn't an enemy (was it Baalam?) send a gaggle of Midianite hookers to get dolled up and tempt the men of Israel?
I think maybe this case would be different from one where a Jew and non-Jew met regularly.
The specific set up of the Midianite women in the Pinchas story was from the beginning a plot to kill Jews.
Yes you are right, but still its something that is allways Disgusting in G-d's eyes, even one encounter. And the Halacha Technically is that if someone is having sex with a non-Jewish women, at the exact time (not before or later), one can barge in and kill both of them, BUT the person who can do this is only someone who is like Pinhas who is Zealous for G-d, someone who is completly connected to G-d and is Zealous for G-d, and just like G-d is disgusted by this so is he (no one here is on that level, BUT we can see what G-d thinks about this act).
yah..that's not going to happen anytime soon in our lifetime....thank goodness...
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Ok.
Let's say we're living in the land of Israel.
We've annihilated many nations in GoguMagog, we've recaptured the borders of Biblical Israel, burned out the idols from the land and reinstated the Sanhedrin.
In this case I think there would be much less incentive for Jews to intermarry.
Then I think you could possibly ban intermarriage and institute harsh penalties in the land of Israel, only because non-Jewish men and women traveling there would have to abide by Jewish law.
But this isn't exactly the case - We've been nationally defiled (well maybe not defiled, but certainly not in top form) for thousands of years - of course some Jews are tired of this and want to intermarry. Even Torah arguments say Hashem didn't mean for the exile to be this bad.
It's not like the Sea just split, we're on the other side thanking Hashem for great miracles, and some guy runs off with a non-Jewish woman.
It's more like we've been through a lot, more than some people can bear psychologically, and they want something a little less heavy, something fun and bright and happy.
So I think we have to have some compassion for the Jewish men who have intermarried. Especially when there are valid Torah arguments that Hashem didn't intend for the exile to be this harsh.
I might be in favor of allowing Jewish men to bring non-Jewish wives into Israel as long as the wives convert...And I'm not even sure it should be like a super-rigorous process. I guess they should learn Torah - but if they aren't against the idea of one G-d and aren't very attached to their other religion (like if they aren't practicing), then maybe we shouldn't hold them to a super high standard of perfection.
They (the converted wives) should enjoy Judaism, but they shouldn't feel like a rabbi is watching them constantly, and that if they miss one little thing, then they aren't a worthy convert. As long as they aren't worshiping idols and are doing some Judaism, maybe they should be ok?
I guess my point is, if the non-Jewish woman isn't really involved in any other religion (the way some Jews are secular today), maybe they are sort of like a blank slate, and their conversion shouldn't be too hard.
I will check out the lecture and post my opinions if they change.
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I think this was sort of a unique situation. I could be wrong and may not have the story correct...
But didn't an enemy (was it Baalam?) send a gaggle of Midianite hookers to get dolled up and tempt the men of Israel?
I think maybe this case would be different from one where a Jew and non-Jew met regularly.
The specific set up of the Midianite women in the Pinchas story was from the beginning a plot to kill Jews.
Yes you are right, but still its something that is allways Disgusting in G-d's eyes, even one encounter. And the Halacha Technically is that if someone is having sex with a non-Jewish women, at the exact time (not before or later), one can barge in and kill both of them, BUT the person who can do this is only someone who is like Pinhas who is Zealous for G-d, someone who is completly connected to G-d and is Zealous for G-d, and just like G-d is disgusted by this so is he (no one here is on that level, BUT we can see what G-d thinks about this act).
yah..that's not going to happen anytime soon in our lifetime....thank goodness...
Why thank goodness? Either way, the person who does this will have his soul cut off forever (unless he does REAL tishuva (with all the proper steps and never does it again + he will still experience some amount of suffering (just as a Shabbat desecrator) even in this world. Even for one act - not only "marriage".
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Ok.
Let's say we're living in the land of Israel.
We've annihilated many nations in GoguMagog, we've recaptured the borders of Biblical Israel, burned out the idols from the land and reinstated the Sanhedrin.
In this case I think there would be much less incentive for Jews to intermarry.
Then I think you could possibly ban intermarriage and institute harsh penalties in the land of Israel, only because non-Jewish men and women traveling there would have to abide by Jewish law.
But this isn't exactly the case - We've been nationally defiled (well maybe not defiled, but certainly not in top form) for thousands of years - of course some Jews are tired of this and want to intermarry. Even Torah arguments say Hashem didn't mean for the exile to be this bad.
It's not like the Sea just split, we're on the other side thanking Hashem for great miracles, and some guy runs off with a non-Jewish woman.
It's more like we've been through a lot, more than some people can bear psychologically, and they want something a little less heavy, something fun and bright and happy.
So I think we have to have some compassion for the Jewish men who have intermarried. Especially when there are valid Torah arguments that Hashem didn't intend for the exile to be this harsh.
I might be in favor of allowing Jewish men to bring non-Jewish wives into Israel as long as the wives convert...And I'm not even sure it should be like a super-rigorous process. I guess they should learn Torah - but if they aren't against the idea of one G-d and aren't very attached to their other religion (like if they aren't practicing), then maybe we shouldn't hold them to a super high standard of perfection.
They (the converted wives) should enjoy Judaism, but they shouldn't feel like a rabbi is watching them constantly, and that if they miss one little thing, then they aren't a worthy convert. As long as they aren't worshiping idols and are doing some Judaism, maybe they should be ok?
I guess my point is, if the non-Jewish woman isn't really involved in any other religion (the way some Jews are secular today), maybe they are sort of like a blank slate, and their conversion shouldn't be too hard.
I will check out the lecture and post my opinions if they change.
I was reading your post and wanted to write a lot, but then you said something smart in the last sentence, and you are smart for doing that. When you finish I would expect you to remove your above post.
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I think this was sort of a unique situation. I could be wrong and may not have the story correct...
But didn't an enemy (was it Baalam?) send a gaggle of Midianite hookers to get dolled up and tempt the men of Israel?
I think maybe this case would be different from one where a Jew and non-Jew met regularly.
The specific set up of the Midianite women in the Pinchas story was from the beginning a plot to kill Jews.
Yes you are right, but still its something that is allways Disgusting in G-d's eyes, even one encounter. And the Halacha Technically is that if someone is having sex with a non-Jewish women, at the exact time (not before or later), one can barge in and kill both of them, BUT the person who can do this is only someone who is like Pinhas who is Zealous for G-d, someone who is completly connected to G-d and is Zealous for G-d, and just like G-d is disgusted by this so is he (no one here is on that level, BUT we can see what G-d thinks about this act).
yah..that's not going to happen anytime soon in our lifetime....thank goodness...
Why thank goodness? Either way, the person who does this will have his soul cut off forever (unless he does REAL tishuva (with all the proper steps and never does it again + he will still experience some amount of suffering (just as a Shabbat desecrator) even in this world. Even for one act - not only "marriage".
Ok good..as long as one gets to live...
Gd is merciful...so should people, especially Jews.
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I think this was sort of a unique situation. I could be wrong and may not have the story correct...
But didn't an enemy (was it Baalam?) send a gaggle of Midianite hookers to get dolled up and tempt the men of Israel?
I think maybe this case would be different from one where a Jew and non-Jew met regularly.
The specific set up of the Midianite women in the Pinchas story was from the beginning a plot to kill Jews.
Yes you are right, but still its something that is allways Disgusting in G-d's eyes, even one encounter. And the Halacha Technically is that if someone is having sex with a non-Jewish women, at the exact time (not before or later), one can barge in and kill both of them, BUT the person who can do this is only someone who is like Pinhas who is Zealous for G-d, someone who is completly connected to G-d and is Zealous for G-d, and just like G-d is disgusted by this so is he (no one here is on that level, BUT we can see what G-d thinks about this act).
yah..that's not going to happen anytime soon in our lifetime....thank goodness...
Why thank goodness? Either way, the person who does this will have his soul cut off forever (unless he does REAL tishuva (with all the proper steps and never does it again + he will still experience some amount of suffering (just as a Shabbat desecrator) even in this world. Even for one act - not only "marriage".
Ok good..as long as one gets to live...
Gd is merciful...so should people, especially Jews.
(I dont want to sound annoying) but, is that all that matters? That person will be cut off, FOREVER, and all that matters is if he will get to live life here? (allthought who says that he wont also get punished in this world, either way eternity is much more important then this world which isn't the blink of an eye compared to ETERNITY.
And in this case Pinhas was given the noble Peace prize (what would have been for his time- but literally the "covenent of Peace") for his great act, and that was concidered true mercy.
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I think this was sort of a unique situation. I could be wrong and may not have the story correct...
But didn't an enemy (was it Baalam?) send a gaggle of Midianite hookers to get dolled up and tempt the men of Israel?
I think maybe this case would be different from one where a Jew and non-Jew met regularly.
The specific set up of the Midianite women in the Pinchas story was from the beginning a plot to kill Jews.
Yes you are right, but still its something that is allways Disgusting in G-d's eyes, even one encounter. And the Halacha Technically is that if someone is having sex with a non-Jewish women, at the exact time (not before or later), one can barge in and kill both of them, BUT the person who can do this is only someone who is like Pinhas who is Zealous for G-d, someone who is completly connected to G-d and is Zealous for G-d, and just like G-d is disgusted by this so is he (no one here is on that level, BUT we can see what G-d thinks about this act).
yah..that's not going to happen anytime soon in our lifetime....thank goodness...
Why thank goodness? Either way, the person who does this will have his soul cut off forever (unless he does REAL tishuva (with all the proper steps and never does it again + he will still experience some amount of suffering (just as a Shabbat desecrator) even in this world. Even for one act - not only "marriage".
Ok good..as long as one gets to live...
Gd is merciful...so should people, especially Jews.
(I dont want to sound annoying) but, is that all that matters? That person will be cut off, FOREVER, and all that matters is if he will get to live life here? (allthought who says that he wont also get punished in this world, either way eternity is much more important then this world which isn't the blink of an eye compared to ETERNITY.
And in this case Pinhas was given the noble Peace prize (what would have been for his time- but literally the "covenent of Peace") for his great act, and that was concidered true mercy.
Yes all that matters is this life...not eternity..
I'm not into any religion that emphasizes on after lives...so if you want to practice your religion that way, be my guest...
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well, I watched the video.
I'm not going to delete my other post, but I have taken the rabbi's words it into consideration and I take it somewhat seriously. A lot of what Rabbi Mizrachi said was pretty powerful.
I don't want to mislead any Jews to think it's ok. If I am mistaken in my beliefs than I hope that it is I and I alone who suffer and I don't want to mislead anyone.
Honestly, this stuff just messes with my mind way too much. It seems sadistic to be tempted day in, day out by beautiful goyas and then be told that being with just 1 for 1 second is cut off for eternity. This is not my favorite aspect of Judaism ;)
Maybe it will be easier if I move to Israel.
Also, in regards to my last post - I know all or most of the Jews that died during this exile died to sanctify G-d. Just want to clarify that, but I think if you look at some of the sexual deviance among Jews today, it can be attributed to a horrible exile that was too much mentally...Like it has warped things so extremely that I find it hard to be too judgmental towards fellow Jews who couldn't take it anymore and wanted to assimilate.
I mean, the biggest reason for massive intermarriage is probably the holocaust. Let's not say that intermarriage is the 'silent holocaust' - what a bunch of bologna - the two things aren't even comparable in my opinion. One probably led to another. I wonder what the statistics are? How many Jews intermarried and at what rate before the Holocaust, and how many intermarried and at what rate afterwards?
Also, are there any other stories in the Bible of Jews being punished for relations with Goyas? I mean it must have happened thousands of times...If it were such a huge sin, why would there only be the one mention of it, and under the circumstances where the goyas were sent as an act of war?
Also, why did the Rabbi immigrate from Israel to the USA? I am suspicious of Rabbis teaching the most hardcore aspects of Judaism who don't live in Israel (except for Chaim who literally can't go). Don't get me wrong, he is a great speaker, and I enjoy his method of teaching (maybe he is in USA to help diaspora Jews), but if you are going to preach that touching a women means you're cut off, you should probably at least be living in Israel.
Any thoughts?
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well, I watched the video.
I'm not going to delete my other post, but I have taken the rabbi's words it into consideration and I take it somewhat seriously. A lot of what Rabbi Mizrachi said was pretty powerful.
I don't want to mislead any Jews to think it's ok. If I am mistaken in my beliefs than I hope that it is I and I alone who suffer and I don't want to mislead anyone.
Honestly, this stuff just messes with my mind way too much. It seems sadistic to be tempted day in, day out by beautiful goyas and then be told that being with just 1 for 1 second is cut off for eternity. This is not my favorite aspect of Judaism ;)
Maybe it will be easier if I move to Israel.
Also, in regards to my last post - I know all or most of the Jews that died during this exile died to sanctify G-d. Just want to clarify that, but I think if you look at some of the sexual deviance among Jews today, it can be attributed to a horrible exile that was too much mentally...Like it has warped things so extremely that I find it hard to be too judgmental towards fellow Jews who couldn't take it anymore and wanted to assimilate.
I mean, the biggest reason for massive intermarriage is probably the holocaust. Let's not say that intermarriage is the 'silent holocaust' - what a bunch of bologna - the two things aren't even comparable in my opinion. One probably led to another. I wonder what the statistics are? How many Jews intermarried and at what rate before the Holocaust, and how many intermarried and at what rate afterwards?
Also, are there any other stories in the Bible of Jews being punished for relations with Goyas? I mean it must have happened thousands of times...If it were such a huge sin, why would there only be the one mention of it, and under the circumstances where the goyas were sent as an act of war?
Also, why did the Rabbi immigrate from Israel to the USA? I am suspicious of Rabbis teaching the most hardcore aspects of Judaism who don't live in Israel (except for Chaim who literally can't go). Don't get me wrong, he is a great speaker, and I enjoy his method of teaching (maybe he is in USA to help diaspora Jews), but if you are going to preach that touching a women means you're cut off, you should probably at least be living in Israel.
Any thoughts?
Yea, dont worry about the Rabbi (their are reasons also, if you really want to know personally about him, then contact him either in person in Queens, or by phone (PM me if you really care),
All what should matter for you, and also for anyone here who has sined in this aspect is to right away make a complete turn. The fact that it got to you is good, but as you know from the video which brought the sources, etc. that this is a VERY serious thing. What needs to be done right afterwards is for one (whoever that is) is to do serious Tishuva, and with Tishiva hope and pray that the sins are forgiven. And anyway, moving to Israel has nothing to do with this particular Tishuva process. If one conducts these acts with non-jewish girls here what would make them stop and not pollute the Jewish girls in Israel also?
The first step is to stop immediatly and completly since one now knows the seriousness of the sin.(and also learn right away the right steps to do Tishuva, if at least one cares about themselves.
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watching the video.
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So, cheating is allowed? even if its .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000001 % ?
beacause if we say no, and the child (who is a mamzer) might be offended?
Stop making your own rules, and "being nice" , lets stick to the rules of G-d and not be reform.
" voted that it should be banned. Intermarriage is insane especially when you realize that all the generations of jews before you have been cut off with your offspring"
Generations before you cut off? What are you referring to?
In addition, your previous post referred to a potential child of intermarriage as a mamzer. But this is not what is defined as a mamzer. A Jewish child born to a non-Jewish father (ie the mother was Jewish and the father not Jewish) is not a mamzer.
I watched the video and loved it. Rabbi Mizrachi is very interesting. I also enjoy his speaking style and pronunciation. His accent is almost identical to that of a great rabbi I learned with this summer.
This is a hypothetical question but... Is there a distinction between touching of a Jewish girl vs. touching a non Jewish girl. Is it worse because it is with a non Jew? Or are you pretty much toast either way?
What about a case of one of those 'R&C' Jews that was 'raised Jewish' but isn't really halachically Jewish, but at the time you had no idea, having met them at some Jewish function or what have you. Are you liable for having engaged in unseemly behavior with a Jewish girl or with a nonJewish girl, and do these punishments or the ramifications of these behaviors differ at all? In addition, if you fall to temptation but are sincere in your shame over the incident or sincere in your convictions that it was wrong and that you were simply weak, is it very difficult to engage in proper teshuvah? It seems the punishments are quite harsh for us for even the slightest of infractions (yes, I know this is a severe transgression, but really what aveirah isn't severe? It seems they all are. The idea of getting "cut off" for a mistake is scary indeed.)
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i saw the video too. I also enjoyed listening to him. I might not agree with the way he goes about his thing, but still a definitive teacher to add to my list.
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So, cheating is allowed? even if its .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000001 % ?
beacause if we say no, and the child (who is a mamzer) might be offended?
Stop making your own rules, and "being nice" , lets stick to the rules of G-d and not be reform.
" voted that it should be banned. Intermarriage is insane especially when you realize that all the generations of jews before you have been cut off with your offspring"
Generations before you cut off? What are you referring to?
In addition, your previous post referred to a potential child of intermarriage as a mamzer. But this is not what is defined as a mamzer. A Jewish child born to a non-Jewish father (ie the mother was Jewish and the father not Jewish) is not a mamzer.
I watched the video and loved it. Rabbi Mizrachi is very interesting. I also enjoy his speaking style and pronunciation. His accent is almost identical to that of a great rabbi I learned with this summer.
This is a hypothetical question but... Is there a distinction between touching of a Jewish girl vs. touching a non Jewish girl. Is it worse because it is with a non Jew? Or are you pretty much toast either way?
What about a case of one of those 'R&C' Jews that was 'raised Jewish' but isn't really halachically Jewish, but at the time you had no idea, having met them at some Jewish function or what have you. Are you liable for having engaged in unseemly behavior with a Jewish girl or with a nonJewish girl, and do these punishments or the ramifications of these behaviors differ at all? In addition, if you fall to temptation but are sincere in your shame over the incident or sincere in your convictions that it was wrong and that you were simply weak, is it very difficult to engage in proper teshuvah? It seems the punishments are quite harsh for us for even the slightest of infractions (yes, I know this is a severe transgression, but really what aveirah isn't severe? It seems they all are. The idea of getting "cut off" for a mistake is scary indeed.)
If your referring to me, no I didnt say that is a mamzer, I was specific, re-read the post (I said is she cheated and then produced a mamzer).
"generations cut off before you" was said by Dan.
You toast either way, because you not allowed to touch a Jewish girl before marriage either way, becuase their is the issue of nidda. (and definitly not have any relations with either of them).
- If you fell in the past, and now know the seriousness of the issue ( I belive you have a chance), but if one did these things and is expected to fall again, then what can I say - for sure 100% his Tishuva would be much harder to achive and their is a Passuk (dont have it in front of me) that says that G-d will personally prevent one who says that he will sin and then later will do Tishuva.
If one knows that they are weak, then make the proper barriers for oneself. Dont go clubbing, and other places where you know that the liklyhood is that you can fall. Also continue learning Torah daily, and have G-d in your mind at all times possible.
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whatever Tzvi.
do you also think jacking off is worse than murder?
Tell me Tzvi...In your estimation, do you think having relations with a goya is worse than homosexuality?
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whatever Tzvi.
do you also think jacking off is worse than murder?
Tell me Tzvi...In your estimation, do you think having relations with a goya is worse than homosexuality?
I dont know for both. I didn't hear an answer for either questions.
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If someone says the worst thing you can do is be with a goya then that implies that it is worse than homosexuality. In his lecture, I believe he says that it (relations with gentile) is worse than anything. See if you can find it in the first five minutes of the video.
Awaiting your response.
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If someone says the worst thing you can do is be with a goya then that implies that it is worse than homosexuality. In his lecture, I believe he says that it (relations with gentile) is worse than anything. See if you can find it in the first five minutes of the video.
Awaiting your response.
If he said that, then you got your answer, why do you need to ask me, if you got your answer.
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If someone says the worst thing you can do is be with a goya then that implies that it is worse than homosexuality. In his lecture, I believe he says that it (relations with gentile) is worse than anything. See if you can find it in the first five minutes of the video.
Awaiting your response.
well, the rabbi is implying that nobody practices homosexuality.
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I am not 100% sure he said this (or maybe I didn't hear it right or I misunderstood) and I want you to confirm.
It's part of the logic process.
Is it not a valid question?
I'm making an argument here to defend Jewish men because I think they should be allowed to have Goyas if the women convert at the time of marriage. Especially since we've been in Galut 2,000 years and circumstances are extenuating.
I'm in favor of extreme leniency on this particular issue.
I want to know, if this lecturer that you are using for your argument thinks that it would be preferable, or less of a sin for a Jewish man to do a homosexual act, than to hook up with a goya according to his understanding of Torah.
Look, I know that it may be a disgusting question...But I think it is a valid and perfectly important question and if it can't be answered straightforwardly, then I will disregard your arguments on the topic.
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::) Your not allowed to do this and your not allowed to do that, which is worse I am not personally able to answer, if you care ask the Rabbi, he will tell you your answer, but dont try to bait me to answer something and then you say see this or that, or look the other thing is worse, so I can justify doing what my lusts want. - I didn't hear him address that particullarly, BUT he did say that a Jew having relations with a goya is worse then for him to have with his mother.
The galut does not justify anything, and has nothing to do with anything. If someone is really having a problem let them find a Jewish women, marry her properly and then enjoy himself, but allowing or justifying something that is EVIL should never be done. If one has done this, he should be ashamed and their is no mitzva to confess this type of sin publicly or even worse to try to justify it.
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::) Your not allowed to do this and your not allowed to do that, which is worse I am not personally able to answer, if you care ask the Rabbi, he will tell you your answer, but dont try to bait me to answer something and then you say see this or that, or look the other thing is worse, so I can justify doing what my lusts want. - I didn't hear him address that particullarly, BUT he did say that a Jew having relations with a goya is worse then for him to have with his mother.
The galut does not justify anything, and has nothing to do with anything. If someone is really having a problem let them find a Jewish women, marry her properly and then enjoy himself, but allowing or justifying something that is EVIL should never be done. If one has done this, he should be ashamed and their is no mitzva to confess this type of sin publicly or even worse to try to justify it.
Actually, thank you for clarifying that part..it seemed confusing to me what he was implying..
So he was saying, just to clarify, that A jewish man to go with a goya, Gd forbid, is worst than he with his mother, Gd forbid...
I mean, that's a demented Jewish logic...however, I do see his point.
No one in their right mind can ever even consider having relations with his mother...it's sick and no physical normal body could ever do such a thing...so that ever happening is impossible for any decent human being...What the rabbi seems to emphasize is that it is even sicker and more disgusting than incest to be with someone of a different religion.
I don't quite agree with him with that type of logic. However, it's a fence that he is building and it is a legitimate in my eyes.
I mean if i had kids one day, Gd willing, I would raise fear in their heads with this same logic so that they never would consider being with a goya...just create that sick image of incest and that going with a goya is much much worse!
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damn you..you moved it here again!
LOL they are keeping you on your toes Doc :::D
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damn you..you moved it here again!
LOL they are keeping you on your toes Doc :::D
It's a great topic for everyone to learn from...
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damn you..you moved it here again!
LOL they are keeping you on your toes Doc :::D
It's a great topic for everyone to learn from...
ooooo. You learned a lot I see. Glad you are joining up with your Sefardic heritige.
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damn you..you moved it here again!
LOL they are keeping you on your toes Doc :::D
It's a great topic for everyone to learn from...
learning is a Jewish thing...not just a sefardic thing..
However, I remain critical to Rabbi Mizrachi...However, I dont' blame him for his method...it's somebody to learn from when one of us have children one day and need to keep them at bay.
ooooo. You learned a lot I see. Glad you are joining up with your Sefardic heritige.
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damn you..you moved it here again!
LOL they are keeping you on your toes Doc :::D
It's a great topic for everyone to learn from...
Thats life Doc we never stop learning
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::) Your not allowed to do this and your not allowed to do that, which is worse I am not personally able to answer, if you care ask the Rabbi, he will tell you your answer, but dont try to bait me to answer something and then you say see this or that, or look the other thing is worse, so I can justify doing what my lusts want. - I didn't hear him address that particullarly, BUT he did say that a Jew having relations with a goya is worse then for him to have with his mother.
The galut does not justify anything, and has nothing to do with anything. If someone is really having a problem let them find a Jewish women, marry her properly and then enjoy himself, but allowing or justifying something that is EVIL should never be done. If one has done this, he should be ashamed and their is no mitzva to confess this type of sin publicly or even worse to try to justify it.
I'll try. I want to be happy and have a good woman. I don't think I am selfish in this regard. You are probably right and I probably should be ashamed. I just haven't seen any Jewish women who I feel I could be happy with?
I don't think I'd be a good fit for an ultra-religious girl, nor for a secular girl so I'm kind of stuck.
Trust me, I do not want to go against the word of Hashem.
Yeah intermarriage sucks...I've seen it in my family and I can see some of the truths about it.
But I get so lonely and I am only young once.
Pray for me that hashem redeems me and sends me a Jewish wife that fulfills me in every way and that he forgives me for what I've done.
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::) Your not allowed to do this and your not allowed to do that, which is worse I am not personally able to answer, if you care ask the Rabbi, he will tell you your answer, but dont try to bait me to answer something and then you say see this or that, or look the other thing is worse, so I can justify doing what my lusts want. - I didn't hear him address that particullarly, BUT he did say that a Jew having relations with a goya is worse then for him to have with his mother.
The galut does not justify anything, and has nothing to do with anything. If someone is really having a problem let them find a Jewish women, marry her properly and then enjoy himself, but allowing or justifying something that is EVIL should never be done. If one has done this, he should be ashamed and their is no mitzva to confess this type of sin publicly or even worse to try to justify it.
I'll try. I want to be happy and have a good woman. I don't think I am selfish in this regard. You are probably right and I probably should be ashamed. I just haven't seen any Jewish women who I feel I could be happy with?
I don't think I'd be a good fit for an ultra-religious girl, nor for a secular girl so I'm kind of stuck.
Trust me, I do not want to go against the word of Hashem.
Yeah intermarriage sucks...I've seen it in my family and I can see some of the truths about it.
But I get so lonely and I am only young once.
Pray for me that hashem redeems me and sends me a Jewish wife that fulfills me in every way and that he forgives me for what I've done.
Where do you live? And what is your background? (American, Askenazi, or Sefaradi, etc.).
I will include you in my prayer (that you should find your correct Shidduch, and follow the laws properly), but we should realise (myself included) that even if you go to a really big Rabbi, and he gives you a blessing, etc. it still comes down to the person's own free choice. In this regard (of free choice), no one is responsible for this except the individual.
Of- course even with this the individual can pray to G-d to help him, and actually this is something that brings G-d a lot of pleasure (even though it means "defeating G-d" so to speak)
It says "(A song, a psalm) to the vicor- sing to the One who is defeated and rejoices. - (Pesachim 119a)
Rebbe Nachman in Likutei Moharan volume 10- lesson #124