Sodom and Gomorrah were on The Jordan Rift Valley. There is archeological proof that they were destroyed in an Earthquake accompanying what happened in Parashat Vayera.Yes i agree but Shas who is in the GOVT with olmert who has the lesbian daughter Dana and livni who is preaparing to divide Yerushalyim should leave the govt and set an example
The Jordan Rift Valley is part of THe Syrian-African Rift Valley which extends down The Red Sea into Africa wity mountains on both sides of the entire fault line.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/956334.html
Last update - 19:29 20/02/2008
Shas MK blames gays for recent earthquakes in the region
By Shahar Ilan, Haaretz Correspondent, and The Associated Press
Tags: Shas, Israel, gays
Shas MK Shlomo Benizri blamed gays Wednesday for the earthquakes that have shaken the region in recent months, telling a Knesset plenum debate on local authorities' earthquake preparedness that government action on homosexuality would do much to prevent the tremors.
Benizri said the government should not make do with reinforcing buildings, but should instead pass less legislation that encourages homosexuality and other "perversions like adoptions by lesbian couples."
The ultra-Orthodox party MK invoked passages from the Talmud and the Gemarrah to support his claims.
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"Why do earthquakes happen?" said Benizri. "One of the reasons is the things to which the Knesset gives legitimacy, to sodomy."
"A cost-effective way of averting earthquake damage," he added, "would be to stop passing legislation on how to encourage homosexual activity in the State of Israel, which anyways causes earthquakes."
Mike Hammel, who chairs Israel's Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Association said in response that "religious MKs are apparently competing to see who can disparage [the gay] community more."
"This is a sad competition that shows how dark Shas MKs are," he said.
"On one had, it is said that a religious MK doesn't believe that earthquakes are caused by G-d," he added. "On the other hand, it is flattering that he attributes supernatural powers to us."
I also blame Shas for staying in secular govt which is about to return YERUSHALAYIM, and the head Olmert has a lesbian daughter. Shas is a bad messanger.
Sounds familiar, remember when Rabbi Ovadia Yosef blamed Hurricane Katrina on the explusion of Jews from Gaza?If this is true, it's finally one thing I can agree with him on.
Your a doc let me explain it to you in this way. Lets say someone gets a heart attack, and then you look at his frige, you tell him that the fatty meat he has is what is causing him to get a heart attack, but you can say no maybe its something else, how do you know thats its the fatty meat?
Anyway about people seeing things around the world etc. That might be true for the average person, But the more someone is Spiritually Aware the more he can see the things around him and things happening to him as signs from G-d. The problem is that we cant allways attach our mentality expecially to those who are higher then us. In Judasim- when you see things going on around you, nothing is random, everything happens for a reason, and you as a Jew are obligated to get to that level of Emuna where you can slowly see more and more of it. (But thats only after reaching and doing the things before it, for example learning a lot of Torah, also believing that what G-d does for you is for your ultimate good, everything G-d does is goos, but the "bad" is because of your sins, etc., But it all starts with learning Torah and Emuna).
I would agree with Rabbi Yosef that Katrina was due to the fact that the us pushed for the gaza withdrawal. The only problem is that Ovadia Yosef himself pushed for the withdrawal from gaza and till this day is enabling the current regime to commit crimes against the jewish people by staying in the govt. Israel will be nukes by Iran if the smolmert dictatorship is not overthrown soon. I know netanyahu is a piece of drek but we have a greater chance of him taking care of Iran than ehud smolmert the proud parent of a homosexual. This is not smearing any rabbi, it is simply legitimate criticism.
I would agree with Rabbi Yosef that Katrina was due to the fact that the us pushed for the gaza withdrawal. The only problem is that Ovadia Yosef himself pushed for the withdrawal from gaza and till this day is enabling the current regime to commit crimes against the jewish people by staying in the govt. Israel will be nukes by Iran if the smolmert dictatorship is not overthrown soon. I know netanyahu is a piece of drek but we have a greater chance of him taking care of Iran than ehud smolmert the proud parent of a homosexual. This is not smearing any rabbi, it is simply legitimate criticism.
Some might argue that Rabbi Ovadia Yosef is alive today because he made the correct decision to withdraw from Gaza...So really...it can go either way.
Your a doc let me explain it to you in this way. Lets say someone gets a heart attack, and then you look at his frige, you tell him that the fatty meat he has is what is causing him to get a heart attack, but you can say no maybe its something else, how do you know thats its the fatty meat?
Anyway about people seeing things around the world etc. That might be true for the average person, But the more someone is Spiritually Aware the more he can see the things around him and things happening to him as signs from G-d. The problem is that we cant allways attach our mentality expecially to those who are higher then us. In Judasim- when you see things going on around you, nothing is random, everything happens for a reason, and you as a Jew are obligated to get to that level of Emuna where you can slowly see more and more of it. (But thats only after reaching and doing the things before it, for example learning a lot of Torah, also believing that what G-d does for you is for your ultimate good, everything G-d does is goos, but the "bad" is because of your sins, etc., But it all starts with learning Torah and Emuna).
Ok let me answer your first paragraph:
I do not tell a patient that the heart attack is from the fatty meat they eat. I will say that MOST LIKELY, the diet is not helping the situation and that he should change the diet.
It's like with gums and teeth and gum disease. Smoking does NOT cause tooth loss. However, smoking is a high RISK FACTOR for tooth loss.
As far as the second paragraph, I agree with it. However, who has emuna? There is only one man that I can say might have had it in our day: Rabbi Kahane for certain things and Rabbi Schneerson for a bunch of things.
too bad they aren't alive anymore because I probably would go with what either of them will say with more of an open mind.
However, even if either of them were to say that this earthquake was 100% for sure due to homosexuals, I would argue night and day with them about it. No one mortal person can really know what Gd is exactly thinking since He is much much larger than anything we can ever imagine and that His actions go beyond any simple reason.
The Earthquake in israel cannot have been due to somethign as simple as homosexuals wanting to march in a parade in Jerusalem and being allowed to do it. Ceratinly, I'm totally against such behavior. My point is, natural disasters and immorality? It's not for any human to give a conclusive answer that one caused the other...Not saying that it isn't possible..I'm simply saying that it is a possibility, but not definitive.
I would agree with Rabbi Yosef that Katrina was due to the fact that the us pushed for the gaza withdrawal. The only problem is that Ovadia Yosef himself pushed for the withdrawal from gazaThat's actually not true. He was against the "disengagement."
I would agree with Rabbi Yosef that Katrina was due to the fact that the us pushed for the gaza withdrawal. The only problem is that Ovadia Yosef himself pushed for the withdrawal from gazaThat's actually not true. He was against the "disengagement."
definitely, Shash doesnt belong thereSodom and Gomorrah were on The Jordan Rift Valley. There is archeological proof that they were destroyed in an Earthquake accompanying what happened in Parashat Vayera.Yes i agree but Shas who is in the GOVT with olmert who has the lesbian daughter Dana and livni who is preaparing to divide Yerushalyim should leave the govt and set an example
The Jordan Rift Valley is part of THe Syrian-African Rift Valley which extends down The Red Sea into Africa wity mountains on both sides of the entire fault line.
I would agree with Rabbi Yosef that Katrina was due to the fact that the us pushed for the gaza withdrawal. The only problem is that Ovadia Yosef himself pushed for the withdrawal from gaza and till this day is enabling the current regime to commit crimes against the jewish people by staying in the govt. Israel will be nukes by Iran if the smolmert dictatorship is not overthrown soon. I know netanyahu is a piece of drek but we have a greater chance of him taking care of Iran than ehud smolmert the proud parent of a homosexual. This is not smearing any rabbi, it is simply legitimate criticism.
Some might argue that Rabbi Ovadia Yosef is alive today because he made the correct decision to withdraw from Gaza...So really...it can go either way.
Dan, how could anyone say Ovadia Yosef is alive because of the disengagement. I am not sure I understand what you wrote. My opinion is that Ovadia Yosef could of rallied all the people in Israel who support him to rebel against the big rapist sharon and he could of stoped it without a doubt. It was a crime for the disengagement not to be stopped.
I would agree with Rabbi Yosef that Katrina was due to the fact that the us pushed for the gaza withdrawal. The only problem is that Ovadia Yosef himself pushed for the withdrawal from gaza and till this day is enabling the current regime to commit crimes against the jewish people by staying in the govt. Israel will be nukes by Iran if the smolmert dictatorship is not overthrown soon. I know netanyahu is a piece of drek but we have a greater chance of him taking care of Iran than ehud smolmert the proud parent of a homosexual. This is not smearing any rabbi, it is simply legitimate criticism.
Some might argue that Rabbi Ovadia Yosef is alive today because he made the correct decision to withdraw from Gaza...So really...it can go either way.
Dan, how could anyone say Ovadia Yosef is alive because of the disengagement. I am not sure I understand what you wrote. My opinion is that Ovadia Yosef could of rallied all the people in Israel who support him to rebel against the big rapist sharon and he could of stoped it without a doubt. It was a crime for the disengagement not to be stopped.
Ok Sharon got a massive stroke...peopel say it is Gd's punishment for the disengagement.
I dont' like being definitive on what Gd is actually thinking nor do I like it when other's do that and call themselves religious Jews..it's wrong to do that.
However, there is nothign wrong with saying that Gd MIGHT have punished Sharon for his evil deeds with a massive stroke.
well excuse me, if it says so in the Holy Books, why should it be hidden? They were trying to stop all the bullsh*t "gay rights" , and said what they said, and have things to back them up.
Why are you somewhat symapatetic with gays?
If you only agree with him on 1 thing, than you are a Rasha.Sounds familiar, remember when Rabbi Ovadia Yosef blamed Hurricane Katrina on the explusion of Jews from Gaza?If this is true, it's finally one thing I can agree with him on.
He also said that one of the reasons why expecially their was because of the blacks who lived their and the fact that they were immoral. Also because of the promiscuity of the city. After he said it the media went bananas of course the accusation of Racism came up.He said because there was a lack of torah there.
Your a doc let me explain it to you in this way. Lets say someone gets a heart attack, and then you look at his frige, you tell him that the fatty meat he has is what is causing him to get a heart attack, but you can say no maybe its something else, how do you know thats its the fatty meat?
Anyway about people seeing things around the world etc. That might be true for the average person, But the more someone is Spiritually Aware the more he can see the things around him and things happening to him as signs from G-d. The problem is that we cant allways attach our mentality expecially to those who are higher then us. In Judasim- when you see things going on around you, nothing is random, everything happens for a reason, and you as a Jew are obligated to get to that level of Emuna where you can slowly see more and more of it. (But thats only after reaching and doing the things before it, for example learning a lot of Torah, also believing that what G-d does for you is for your ultimate good, everything G-d does is goos, but the "bad" is because of your sins, etc., But it all starts with learning Torah and Emuna).
Ok let me answer your first paragraph:
I do not tell a patient that the heart attack is from the fatty meat they eat. I will say that MOST LIKELY, the diet is not helping the situation and that he should change the diet.
It's like with gums and teeth and gum disease. Smoking does NOT cause tooth loss. However, smoking is a high RISK FACTOR for tooth loss.
As far as the second paragraph, I agree with it. However, who has emuna? There is only one man that I can say might have had it in our day: Rabbi Kahane for certain things and Rabbi Schneerson for a bunch of things.
too bad they aren't alive anymore because I probably would go with what either of them will say with more of an open mind.
However, even if either of them were to say that this earthquake was 100% for sure due to homosexuals, I would argue night and day with them about it. No one mortal person can really know what Gd is exactly thinking since He is much much larger than anything we can ever imagine and that His actions go beyond any simple reason.
The Earthquake in israel cannot have been due to somethign as simple as homosexuals wanting to march in a parade in Jerusalem and being allowed to do it. Ceratinly, I'm totally against such behavior. My point is, natural disasters and immorality? It's not for any human to give a conclusive answer that one caused the other...Not saying that it isn't possible..I'm simply saying that it is a possibility, but not definitive.
Many people have Emuna, everyone on his and her level. I know its hard to understand, but once you read up on it, you might begin to understand on a level. - I suggest "the Garden of Emuna"- By Rav Shalom Arush. Also not only famous people might have a high level of Emuna. Infact its the many ordinary Jews who you will see that have Emuna. Also go check, see and learn from many of the Breslevers expecially.
+ Yes immorality does have a big impact on this world + natural disasters. The problems that Jews have is not only with the arabs (which of course is a very terrible problem, also connected with a lack of Emuna= Confidence in G-d). Their are many examples that we can see, in many of the writings that show the warnings. For example earthquakes are connected to homosexuality. Floods are connected also to sexual immorality, + when we see these things for example happening in Europe, it is like a father taking out a belt and hitting something in front of the child, if the child gets it good, if not then the next step could be taken- all in the end for the child (G-d's children- Israel) to learn. If we pass on the messages from G-d then G-d will have to send bigger messages, G-d forbid something happening to the individual, and same as the nation as a whole.
Their is a saying that goes " A whisper suffices for the wise, but a fool needs flagellation". (Midrash Mishli 22).
Re: "...Yes, gay sex is horrible thing...I hate it wtih the passion.
but a lot of gay people are sweet nice smart caring human beings...There are a lot worse people out there..."
First of all, "gay" means "happy", "cheerful", and no more insidious "double-speak" could ever be used as a substitute for homosexuals and queers.
If queers were in fact "nice" "smart" "caring", then why are homos prone to violence and homicide?
Why, if queers are truly "smart", aren't they able to recognize sick perversion for what it is?
And, if they are smart enough to recognize the difference between "normal" and "perverted", then why aren't they smart enough to cease and desist from that which obviously is an abomination in G-d's sight?
It seems that the only thing these "caring" sickos actually "care" about is violating the very natural order created by G-d!
How can any man in their right mind enjoy using their reproductive organs to mix their own seed with another man's feces in a rectum?
And how can any woman gifted with the ability to gestate, give birth to, and nourish future generations, despise her own "natural place" in G-d's ordered Creation?
Lesbozos even go so far as to renounce normal sexual activity by "strapping on" and "fisting" members of their own sex!
What follows is a true story:
Several years ago, a valedictorian high school student who had distinguished himself in sports, approached his father after dinner.
"Dad, may I have a word with you"? he asked.
"Of course, son!"
"Dad, I'm a queer and I hate G-d!"
The boy's father, at first couldn't believe his own ears!
Then, it hit him; just as if his own sick son had slapped him across the face!
Then the boy's father, without so much as blinking an eye, picked up a steak knife from the dinner table and stabbed his own son right in the heart!
Then, he calmly called the sheriff's department to report that he had just killed his own son.
When the sheriff arrived, and saw the star football player and valedictorian laying dead with a ginzu steak knive sticking out of him, he said to the boy's father, "What went on here?"
The father said, "My own son was some kind of queer!"
The sheriff, pondering what would be the best for all concerned in the tightly knit community, stroked his chin a few times and then, with complete assurance, called out for the family's man-servant "Mr. Willy".
"Willy", the sheriff yelled, "Come on over he-ah!"
The Negro soon was heard approaching.
As he entered the dining room, the Sheriff pulled his gun out, fired a warning shot into the ceiling, and screamed at the top of his lungs, "Mr. Willy!" "Mr. Willy!" "Put that knife down!" "Don't kill that fine white boy!"
Five 38 calibre slugs floored "Mr. Willy" even before he could assume a look of astonishment.
The next day, the community was shocked, thought not surprised, to hear that "Mr. Willy" tried to be a queer with a fine white boy and sports hero, and when he was rebuffed, grabbed a ginzu steak knife and killed the boy in a fit of homorectumal rage!
The sheriff had enforced the law for the entire community.
The father had rid himself of a horrible shame.
And "Mr. Willy", true to form, had served the good white community even in death!
This true story should wake up any of you out there who still believe "gay is good"!
Re: "...Yes, gay sex is horrible thing...I hate it wtih the passion.
but a lot of gay people are sweet nice smart caring human beings...There are a lot worse people out there..."
First of all, "gay" means "happy", "cheerful", and no more insidious "double-speak" could ever be used as a substitute for homosexuals and queers.
If queers were in fact "nice" "smart" "caring", then why are homos prone to violence and homicide?
Why, if queers are truly "smart", aren't they able to recognize sick perversion for what it is?
And, if they are smart enough to recognize the difference between "normal" and "perverted", then why aren't they smart enough to cease and desist from that which obviously is an abomination in G-d's sight?
It seems that the only thing these "caring" sickos actually "care" about is violating the very natural order created by G-d!
How can any man in their right mind enjoy using their reproductive organs to mix their own seed with another man's feces in a rectum?
And how can any woman gifted with the ability to gestate, give birth to, and nourish future generations, despise her own "natural place" in G-d's ordered Creation?
Lesbozos even go so far as to renounce normal sexual activity by "strapping on" and "fisting" members of their own sex!
What follows is a true story:
Several years ago, a valedictorian high school student who had distinguished himself in sports, approached his father after dinner.
"Dad, may I have a word with you"? he asked.
"Of course, son!"
"Dad, I'm a queer and I hate G-d!"
The boy's father, at first couldn't believe his own ears!
Then, it hit him; just as if his own sick son had slapped him across the face!
Then the boy's father, without so much as blinking an eye, picked up a steak knife from the dinner table and stabbed his own son right in the heart!
Then, he calmly called the sheriff's department to report that he had just killed his own son.
When the sheriff arrived, and saw the star football player and valedictorian laying dead with a ginzu steak knive sticking out of him, he said to the boy's father, "What went on here?"
The father said, "My own son was some kind of queer!"
The sheriff, pondering what would be the best for all concerned in the tightly knit community, stroked his chin a few times and then, with complete assurance, called out for the family's man-servant "Mr. Willy".
"Willy", the sheriff yelled, "Come on over he-ah!"
The Negro soon was heard approaching.
As he entered the dining room, the Sheriff pulled his gun out, fired a warning shot into the ceiling, and screamed at the top of his lungs, "Mr. Willy!" "Mr. Willy!" "Put that knife down!" "Don't kill that fine white boy!"
Five 38 calibre slugs floored "Mr. Willy" even before he could assume a look of astonishment.
The next day, the community was shocked, thought not surprised, to hear that "Mr. Willy" tried to be a queer with a fine white boy and sports hero, and when he was rebuffed, grabbed a ginzu steak knife and killed the boy in a fit of homorectumal rage!
The sheriff had enforced the law for the entire community.
The father had rid himself of a horrible shame.
And "Mr. Willy", true to form, had served the good white community even in death!
This true story should wake up any of you out there who still believe "gay is good"!
Re: "...You obviously know nothing..."Actaully, I think we'll be moving closer to a "Spartan" like society where if the child "doesn't look right" at birth, it will simply be tossed into a garbage shoot or killed and sent to the processing plant for animal food...
Well, I may not know how much a bunch of nines in a row are, but I know how to hire a bunch of smart Jew accountants to add them up for me!
But, there's a bright side to the "queer problem".
Soon, we'll all be able to pay gynecologists and neurosurgeons to take newly born babies that "don't look right", and surgically cut out the bad "queer" part of their brains.
At that age, they don't even require anesthesia, won't remember what happened, and the scars on their heads won't be noticed once they grow hair.
And modern gene therapy will soon allow us to arrest homolezbos, and inject stem cells into their heads.
You see, stem cells are these things that "stem" the flow of queer thoughts and unnatural lusts.
Re: "...You obviously know nothing..."
Well, I may not know how much a bunch of nines in a row are, but I know how to hire a bunch of smart Jew accountants to add them up for me!
But, there's a bright side to the "queer problem".
Soon, we'll all be able to pay gynecologists and neurosurgeons to take newly born babies that "don't look right", and surgically cut out the bad "queer" part of their brains.
At that age, they don't even require anesthesia, won't remember what happened, and the scars on their heads won't be noticed once they grow hair.
And modern gene therapy will soon allow us to arrest homolezbos, and inject stem cells into their heads.
You see, stem cells are these things that "stem" the flow of queer thoughts and unnatural lusts.
Re: "...because Manhattan isn't on an active fault line..."http://www.dukelabs.com/NYC%20Quake/NYCQuake.htm (http://www.dukelabs.com/NYC%20Quake/NYCQuake.htm)http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/news/story1_2_01.html (http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/news/story1_2_01.html)In fact, Manhattan is on an active fault line!
Re: "...We dont' know for sure if Gd caused an earthquake because of homosexuals..."
One of the rare events in history, for which The Jews are not blamed!
However, our Jewish Prophets foretold that the Moshiach's arrival was to be preceded with unprecedented geophysical calamities which would build in intensity until the entire Earth was affected.
Torah does teach that Ha'Shem frequently causes quakes, famines, and other natural disasters in direct response to mankind's wickedness.
Of course, it's easy "to believe" when using hindsight!
well excuse me, if it says so in the Holy Books, why should it be hidden? They were trying to stop all the bullsh*t "gay rights" , and said what they said, and have things to back them up.
Why are you somewhat symapatetic with gays?
because not all gays are terrible human beings...Yes, gay sex is horrible thing...I hate it wtih the passion.
but a lot of gay people are sweet nice smart caring human beings...There are a lot worse people out there.
But i do not defend homosexuality at all..It's a terrible thing to do.
I ask you, Tzvi, what if, Gd forbid, your son, your daughter, your brother, yoru sister, your best friend came to you and were gay? Someone you loved dearly and respected and they said they had homosexual inclinations?
It is a real life situation. thank Gd i have no one in my family or friends like that. However, what if? It happens. I have seen it with my own eyes in other families..and these families have done nothign wrong..and the person who's gay is a loving sweet great human being otherwise. I woudlnt' be defending their inclinations or fantasies..however that's the least of the problems in teh world.
The issue that is terrible with manyin teh gay community are their pride and marches and promotion and lack of privacy. I despise it..It's evil..we should denounce things like that. Homosexuality is inappropriate and very wrong..we shoudl nto promote these things.
It's funny how things turn out. I belive there is a nudist colony or one of those Club Hedonism at the southern tip of the Dead Sea, traditional Sodom... :-[
well excuse me, if it says so in the Holy Books, why should it be hidden? They were trying to stop all the bullsh*t "gay rights" , and said what they said, and have things to back them up.
Why are you somewhat symapatetic with gays?
because not all gays are terrible human beings...Yes, gay sex is horrible thing...I hate it wtih the passion.
but a lot of gay people are sweet nice smart caring human beings...There are a lot worse people out there.
But i do not defend homosexuality at all..It's a terrible thing to do.
I ask you, Tzvi, what if, Gd forbid, your son, your daughter, your brother, yoru sister, your best friend came to you and were gay? Someone you loved dearly and respected and they said they had homosexual inclinations?
It is a real life situation. thank Gd i have no one in my family or friends like that. However, what if? It happens. I have seen it with my own eyes in other families..and these families have done nothign wrong..and the person who's gay is a loving sweet great human being otherwise. I woudlnt' be defending their inclinations or fantasies..however that's the least of the problems in teh world.
The issue that is terrible with manyin teh gay community are their pride and marches and promotion and lack of privacy. I despise it..It's evil..we should denounce things like that. Homosexuality is inappropriate and very wrong..we shoudl nto promote these things.
G-d forbid. Dont even speak like that, if something like that happens to someone, even if they are close to them it still does not make a difference. The Law if the Law and their wouldn't be any justification from someone who recognizes G-d and his justice. And ill answer you just like their are laws of someone who isn't Shomer Shabbat, as much as they are a nice person (supposidly), etc. if I cant drink wine that they touched then I cant drink it, and not make excuses later (if the wine isn't Mevushal- Pasturized). Same with homos and other sins, I wouldn't EVER tell someone that it is okay. If someone is like that then they would have to live with it and not act upon their inclination. A man isn't also allowed to have relations with every lady he wants or sees, also not before marriage.
Please dont get offended but you have to get out of the reform mentality. If something is not allowed then its not, and we cant and shouldn't have "understanding" for it. By being sympathetic one becomes a partner in the crime by encouraging and accepting it. Maybe in the past and in some places their were/are people who have that tendency but since it is looked down upon it is not practiced, BUT because of the acceptance and other things, and weak talk, etc. they go and do it, which is a very terrible sin.
well excuse me, if it says so in the Holy Books, why should it be hidden? They were trying to stop all the bullsh*t "gay rights" , and said what they said, and have things to back them up.
Why are you somewhat symapatetic with gays?
because not all gays are terrible human beings...Yes, gay sex is horrible thing...I hate it wtih the passion.
but a lot of gay people are sweet nice smart caring human beings...There are a lot worse people out there.
But i do not defend homosexuality at all..It's a terrible thing to do.
I ask you, Tzvi, what if, Gd forbid, your son, your daughter, your brother, yoru sister, your best friend came to you and were gay? Someone you loved dearly and respected and they said they had homosexual inclinations?
It is a real life situation. thank Gd i have no one in my family or friends like that. However, what if? It happens. I have seen it with my own eyes in other families..and these families have done nothign wrong..and the person who's gay is a loving sweet great human being otherwise. I woudlnt' be defending their inclinations or fantasies..however that's the least of the problems in teh world.
The issue that is terrible with manyin teh gay community are their pride and marches and promotion and lack of privacy. I despise it..It's evil..we should denounce things like that. Homosexuality is inappropriate and very wrong..we shoudl nto promote these things.
G-d forbid. Dont even speak like that, if something like that happens to someone, even if they are close to them it still does not make a difference. The Law if the Law and their wouldn't be any justification from someone who recognizes G-d and his justice. And ill answer you just like their are laws of someone who isn't Shomer Shabbat, as much as they are a nice person (supposidly), etc. if I cant drink wine that they touched then I cant drink it, and not make excuses later (if the wine isn't Mevushal- Pasturized). Same with homos and other sins, I wouldn't EVER tell someone that it is okay. If someone is like that then they would have to live with it and not act upon their inclination. A man isn't also allowed to have relations with every lady he wants or sees, also not before marriage.
Please dont get offended but you have to get out of the reform mentality. If something is not allowed then its not, and we cant and shouldn't have "understanding" for it. By being sympathetic one becomes a partner in the crime by encouraging and accepting it. Maybe in the past and in some places their were/are people who have that tendency but since it is looked down upon it is not practiced, BUT because of the acceptance and other things, and weak talk, etc. they go and do it, which is a very terrible sin.
I'm not suggesting that one shoudl accept homosexuality even with a loved one. I'm asking if you would hate your son, Gd forbid, if he came to you and said that he was not attracted to women but attracted to men? And let's just say that he never acted on his instincts...that he comes to you and simply feels that way.
I have another question:
Is someone still a homosexual if they decide to lead a normal life, getting married to a woman, having kids with her, but isn't attracted to the opposite sex, but on the other hand to the same sex...just does not act upon his instincts?
I would still think this person is a homosexual, albiet not a sodomite.
Look, I will have to actually agree with Tzvi on the homosexual issue. Their is no excuse for homosexuality and people aren't born that why. How come you don't see two male lions or two male leopards in the zoo engaged in sex?
well excuse me, if it says so in the Holy Books, why should it be hidden? They were trying to stop all the bullsh*t "gay rights" , and said what they said, and have things to back them up.
Why are you somewhat symapatetic with gays?
because not all gays are terrible human beings...Yes, gay sex is horrible thing...I hate it wtih the passion.
but a lot of gay people are sweet nice smart caring human beings...There are a lot worse people out there.
But i do not defend homosexuality at all..It's a terrible thing to do.
I ask you, Tzvi, what if, Gd forbid, your son, your daughter, your brother, yoru sister, your best friend came to you and were gay? Someone you loved dearly and respected and they said they had homosexual inclinations?
It is a real life situation. thank Gd i have no one in my family or friends like that. However, what if? It happens. I have seen it with my own eyes in other families..and these families have done nothign wrong..and the person who's gay is a loving sweet great human being otherwise. I woudlnt' be defending their inclinations or fantasies..however that's the least of the problems in teh world.
The issue that is terrible with manyin teh gay community are their pride and marches and promotion and lack of privacy. I despise it..It's evil..we should denounce things like that. Homosexuality is inappropriate and very wrong..we shoudl nto promote these things.
G-d forbid. Dont even speak like that, if something like that happens to someone, even if they are close to them it still does not make a difference. The Law if the Law and their wouldn't be any justification from someone who recognizes G-d and his justice. And ill answer you just like their are laws of someone who isn't Shomer Shabbat, as much as they are a nice person (supposidly), etc. if I cant drink wine that they touched then I cant drink it, and not make excuses later (if the wine isn't Mevushal- Pasturized). Same with homos and other sins, I wouldn't EVER tell someone that it is okay. If someone is like that then they would have to live with it and not act upon their inclination. A man isn't also allowed to have relations with every lady he wants or sees, also not before marriage.
Please dont get offended but you have to get out of the reform mentality. If something is not allowed then its not, and we cant and shouldn't have "understanding" for it. By being sympathetic one becomes a partner in the crime by encouraging and accepting it. Maybe in the past and in some places their were/are people who have that tendency but since it is looked down upon it is not practiced, BUT because of the acceptance and other things, and weak talk, etc. they go and do it, which is a very terrible sin.
I'm not suggesting that one shoudl accept homosexuality even with a loved one. I'm asking if you would hate your son, Gd forbid, if he came to you and said that he was not attracted to women but attracted to men? And let's just say that he never acted on his instincts...that he comes to you and simply feels that way.
I have another question:
Is someone still a homosexual if they decide to lead a normal life, getting married to a woman, having kids with her, but isn't attracted to the opposite sex, but on the other hand to the same sex...just does not act upon his instincts?
I would still think this person is a homosexual, albiet not a sodomite.
Please for the future dont say "what if your....." Its not a good thing to speak directly about something bad that could happen, G-d forbid.
Both Questions- one is not a homo unless he or she does the act, I would tell the person that its not allowed, and that he should get married to a female and fight his evil inclination.
If your going to ask if it allready happened (the act), then I would ask you how would a parent react to a child that tells them that he has an inclination and desire to kill people and that he just killed 10 people because he cant control it? Im not a parent so I dont know how I would react, but the situation is similar.
Dr. Dan, I know you wouldnt want to wish that upon me or anyone else here, but in general its not good to talk in that way because "its giving the satan ideas"- You know what I mean.
About what is worse, etc. The reason why people say ooh murder is the worst thing is because people have been taught and "brainwashed" to believe it so. Anyway if to think about it in one perspective you can even "rationalize" about murder. What are you doing that is soo bad? You are taking a person and passing him on to the next world, whats soo bad about that, if anything a murderer should be awarded for doing the guy a favor by getting him to heaven faster.
Okay I was kidding, BUT you can see that whats decided isn't upon peoples rational, etc. Its about what G-d has set. He knows what is allowed and what is not, what is good and what isn't. So if we hear someone saying that forbidden xxx relationships are worse then murder according to the Torah or breaking Shabbat on purpose is worse, then it shouldn't be taken lighty and its not allways according to what we have been brought up to think because of society. (the media and society + evil inclination convinces you that its not that bad, or its okay and all the other excuses.).
Thats why Jews have to learn Torah and specifically Mussar to get back the sensitivity and seriousness of the things in life.
I heard its not good to talk in a negative way like that saying what if ______ happens to you, etc. G-d does control everything but every word expecially from a Jew impacts the whole creation, for good or the opposite.Dr. Dan, I know you wouldnt want to wish that upon me or anyone else here, but in general its not good to talk in that way because "its giving the satan ideas"- You know what I mean.
About what is worse, etc. The reason why people say ooh murder is the worst thing is because people have been taught and "brainwashed" to believe it so. Anyway if to think about it in one perspective you can even "rationalize" about murder. What are you doing that is soo bad? You are taking a person and passing him on to the next world, whats soo bad about that, if anything a murderer should be awarded for doing the guy a favor by getting him to heaven faster.
Okay I was kidding, BUT you can see that whats decided isn't upon peoples rational, etc. Its about what G-d has set. He knows what is allowed and what is not, what is good and what isn't. So if we hear someone saying that forbidden xxx relationships are worse then murder according to the Torah or breaking Shabbat on purpose is worse, then it shouldn't be taken lighty and its not allways according to what we have been brought up to think because of society. (the media and society + evil inclination convinces you that its not that bad, or its okay and all the other excuses.).
Thats why Jews have to learn Torah and specifically Mussar to get back the sensitivity and seriousness of the things in life.
Tzvi, what do you mean "giving satan ideas." Don't you believe g-d plans whats going to happen without external input? I am not sure that statement was appropriate.
Dr. Dan, I know you wouldnt want to wish that upon me or anyone else here, but in general its not good to talk in that way because "its giving the satan ideas"- You know what I mean.
About what is worse, etc. The reason why people say ooh murder is the worst thing is because people have been taught and "brainwashed" to believe it so. Anyway if to think about it in one perspective you can even "rationalize" about murder. What are you doing that is soo bad? You are taking a person and passing him on to the next world, whats soo bad about that, if anything a murderer should be awarded for doing the guy a favor by getting him to heaven faster.
Okay I was kidding, BUT you can see that whats decided isn't upon peoples rational, etc. Its about what G-d has set. He knows what is allowed and what is not, what is good and what isn't. So if we hear someone saying that forbidden xxx relationships are worse then murder according to the Torah or breaking Shabbat on purpose is worse, then it shouldn't be taken lighty and its not allways according to what we have been brought up to think because of society. (the media and society + evil inclination convinces you that its not that bad, or its okay and all the other excuses.).
Thats why Jews have to learn Torah and specifically Mussar to get back the sensitivity and seriousness of the things in life.
Dr. Dan, I know you wouldnt want to wish that upon me or anyone else here, but in general its not good to talk in that way because "its giving the satan ideas"- You know what I mean.
About what is worse, etc. The reason why people say ooh murder is the worst thing is because people have been taught and "brainwashed" to believe it so. Anyway if to think about it in one perspective you can even "rationalize" about murder. What are you doing that is soo bad? You are taking a person and passing him on to the next world, whats soo bad about that, if anything a murderer should be awarded for doing the guy a favor by getting him to heaven faster.
Okay I was kidding, BUT you can see that whats decided isn't upon peoples rational, etc. Its about what G-d has set. He knows what is allowed and what is not, what is good and what isn't. So if we hear someone saying that forbidden xxx relationships are worse then murder according to the Torah or breaking Shabbat on purpose is worse, then it shouldn't be taken lighty and its not allways according to what we have been brought up to think because of society. (the media and society + evil inclination convinces you that its not that bad, or its okay and all the other excuses.).
Thats why Jews have to learn Torah and specifically Mussar to get back the sensitivity and seriousness of the things in life.
Not satan's ideas: it's Devil's Advocate...I'm not cursing you when i say it, but you never know...
And i have to ask you, why is murder in the 10 commandments and not homosexuality?
thirdly, you never answered my question. Just changed the subject how breaking shabbat is worse than murder. You're not helping.
"One must wonder why Shas MKs are so obsessed with the gay community… we can all recall the case of the American senator who fiercely spoke out against gays until it was found he himself was gay." - Mike Hammel.
Yes one must wonder, indeed. One must also wonder how far anti-gay statements will really take Shas in its attempt to maintain its grip on political power in the face of immense corruption scandals and utter disregard for the premises of Judaism.
"One must wonder why Shas MKs are so obsessed with the gay community… we can all recall the case of the American senator who fiercely spoke out against gays until it was found he himself was gay." - Mike Hammel.
Yes one must wonder, indeed. One must also wonder how far anti-gay statements will really take Shas in its attempt to maintain its grip on political power in the face of immense corruption scandals and utter disregard for the premises of Judaism.
http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=8519&pst=922757;D ;D ;D
HOMOSEXUALS FOR HAMAS January 08, 2008 1:25 PM
HOMOSEXUALS FOR HAMAS LEADER LOTI IBN-BRUCE: "WE WILL DRIVE THE ZIONIST INFILTRATORS FROM OUR UPSCALE RESORT TOWNS"
Dahab, Egyptian Sinai (Boystown News Network)- In a carefully worded statement, Homosexuals for Hamas founder Loti Ibn Bruce claims that his Pink-Keffiyah Brigades were responsible for the deadly attack in this sweltering hot desert resort town. Ibn-Bruce, an ardent supporter of Hamas and a self-described "profit of homo-islamic liberation" had little sympathy for the victims of the latest attack. Ibn Bruce instead turned the blame towards Israel.
"Our Islamic Pink Keffiyah Brigades do not shed crocodile tears for the so called 'victims' of our martyrdom operations...These latest events, guided by the hand of Allah the most merciful and his prophet Mohammed PBUH, were merely a grain of sand in the vast desert of pain, desperation and humiliation that Homosexual PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis feel every day", declared the defiant Ibn-Bruce.
Elaborating upon his theme of desperation and redemption, Ibn-Lota described, in detail, the humiliating treatment that Pink Keffiyah brigades have been given at this seaside resort town.
"Where was the international condemnation last week whent the Zionist hotel owners refused to assist our homosexual bretheren. Just last week I was in the lobby of the local Hotel ManMax waiting to be served my daily glass of Zima and Mango juice. The television was blasting the latest highlights of an American Zionist football match. I politely asked the hotel maitre dis what channell was the "Lifestyle Network" so I might be able to watch a rerun of "My Two Dads" on. The hotel employee refused, stating that the hotel did not carry "Lifestyles Network" and that other guests preferred to watch football. He suggested that I instead "TiVo" "my two dads and watch it in the privacy of my own room. This is the Zionist solution to everything, TiVo! Well this is no solution at all. Perhaps this bombing will send a message to the Zionists owners of these hotels. The homosexual martyrs of Eretz Yisrael are a people yearning for freedom and justice. We will not cease our martyrdom operations until every Homosexual PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi can watch "My Two Dads" wherever they please. No Justice! No Peace!