JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: doom777 on February 24, 2008, 11:38:01 PM
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Can somebody influential tell downwithislam not to come on kahane.org forums, and start taking down everyone who is not a JTF backer? I understand that you guys have your own way, and that your goals are very good for Jewish people, and that Chaim ben Pesach is a great guys. But seriously, people like him who start trouble only bring division to our movements and make us spend time and resourses and anger firing at each other, instead of our real enemies. So let's all be friends, and tell downwithislam to back of, m`kay?
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A few people have tried...
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If he worships Chaim Ben Pesach so much, just let Chaim tell him to stop this.
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I only listen to people who have shown themselves to be fair and respectful in all situations.
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Here's the deal Shroom:
We stop flaming your little tea party when your idol Guzofsky and his cronies stop flaming Chaim, "goyim", and Christians, and stop associating with self-hating informers like Roni and Irv Rubin.
It's not Chaim's fault that our movement is much larger than yours, even though Guzofsky has been in Israel for 25 years and Chaim hasn't been allowed to spend one day there.
YOU shut up. Loser.
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Here's the deal Shroom:
We stop flaming your little tea party when your idol Guzofsky and his cronies stop flaming Chaim, "goyim", and Christians, and stop associating with self-hating informers like Roni and Irv Rubin.
It's not Chaim's fault that our movement is much larger than yours, even though Guzofsky has been in Israel for 25 years and Chaim hasn't been allowed to spend one day there.
YOU shut up. Loser.
Mike Guzofsky who was Rabbi Kahane zt'l most trusted aide has never flamed Chaim, though the decision to tolerate Goyim and Christians by Chaim is just that his choice, as we have explained in the past; Chaim follows the Meiri, a minority and extremely tolerant opinion. Most Jews dont follow the Meiri and very few Kahanists do.
I dont know what the Roni comment has to do with anything since he has never been involved with Kahane.org, Irv was not a religious Jew and because of this made mistakes, he never informed on anyone though he said foolish things and did his best to do teshuva I am aware Chaim doesnt like him.
Yes, the JTF forum is much larger then Kahane.org, but its Yekutiel who is actually doing work on the ground in Israel.
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Most Jews dont follow the Meiri and very few Kahanists do.
Source please? Obviously the founder of Kahanism disagreed!
I dont know what the Roni comment has to do with anything since he has never been involved with Kahane.org, Irv was not a religious Jew and because of this made mistakes, he never informed on anyone though he said foolish things and did his best to do teshuva I am aware Chaim doesnt like him.
Roni was one of Guzofsky's mods for many months last year. I don't know that they met, but it is fact that for a long time he tolerated his "the European Jews were disloyal to their governments" dreck. And you are right about Irv Rubin, who indeed ate pork and in fact dissed religious Judaism many times, but that didn't stop Guzofsky from befriending him.
Yes, the JTF forum is much larger then Kahane.org, but its Yekutiel who is actually doing work on the ground in Israel.
He runs a kennel. He passed around a few petitions last year. Big whoop. Did the army ever beat him black and blue for refusing to leave a hilltop? LOL.
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Here's the deal Shroom:
We stop flaming your little tea party when your idol Guzofsky and his cronies stop flaming Chaim, "goyim", and Christians, and stop associating with self-hating informers like Roni and Irv Rubin.
It's not Chaim's fault that our movement is much larger than yours, even though Guzofsky has been in Israel for 25 years and Chaim hasn't been allowed to spend one day there.
YOU shut up. Loser.
Mike Guzofsky who was Rabbi Kahane zt'l most trusted aide has never flamed Chaim, though the decision to tolerate Goyim and Christians by Chaim is just that his choice, as we have explained in the past; Chaim follows the Meiri, a minority and extremely tolerant opinion. Most Jews dont follow the Meiri and very few Kahanists do.
I dont know what the Roni comment has to do with anything since he has never been involved with Kahane.org, Irv was not a religious Jew and because of this made mistakes, he never informed on anyone though he said foolish things and did his best to do teshuva I am aware Chaim doesnt like him.
Yes, the JTF forum is much larger then Kahane.org, but its Yekutiel who is actually doing work on the ground in Israel.
KahaneLoyalist, you have to realize that Yekutiel is not the future. He is not successful and he is not very good at garnering support to say the least. If you go to his forum, he has the same two shmucks online all the time spewing hatred at Chaim and JTF. In Israel, nobody outside his immediate community even knows his name. He cannot excite and attract people like Chaim. 25 years in Israel and he didn't even have a handful of people he could direct to resist expulsion. We could either keep on throing our marbles into that never ending tunnel or we could look to Chaim who shows us so much promise. Besides, this is Chaims forum so lets have some respect for him.
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I am supporting DownwithIslam....
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בס''ד
doom, your message is that we should not fight each other. And how do you convey that message? By coming on our forum and telling one of our best members to "shut up".
Might I also remind you that downwithislam was only RESPONDING to the non-stop anti-JTF hate and slander that he saw on your forum. For many years, Yekutiel has allowed a torrent of the most vicious hatred against JTF in general and against me personally. At the same time, Yekutiel defends the informer traitor Irv Rubin ys''v.
kahaneloyalist, with all due respect, your description of my position on working with Christians and gentiles is quite inaccurate. You say that I represent a small minority position. Can you cite a single leading rabbinic authority today who says that we should not work with Christians and gentiles who want to help Israel? In the religious nationalist camp, ALL of the leading rabbinic authorities today work with Christians and gentiles or at least try to. HaRav Dov Lior, HaRav Zalman Melamed, HaRav Mordechai Eliyahu, HaRav Yisrael Lau, and many others ALL meet with and try to convince Christian and gentile visitors to Israel to work together with rightwing Jews in America against Israeli territorial retreats. Whenever Christians and gentiles join demonstrations, Arutz 7 and the other religious nationalist media in Israel praise their participation.
Much more disturbing is your defense of the informer traitor Irv Rubin ys''v. You say he was not an informer. Rubin went on national television in front of 30 million Americans to incite them against the hero Jonathan Pollard. Here's what the person you are defending said: "Jonathan Pollard used his trusted position in the Defense Department to betray his country and pass secrets to a foreign nation. Someone who commits treason does not deserve a life sentence. If I could, I would sentence Pollard to death." The audience burst into frenzied applause and cheers, and the program host Merv Griffin and his other guest William F. Buckley also happily applauded and cheered.
THE PERSON WHO REALLY DESERVED THE DEATH SENTENCE WAS RUBIN, AND BARUCH HASHEM, HE RECEIVED IT.
On the Barry Farber radio show, Rubin also condemned Reuven Manning as a "terrorist murderer" when Manning was sentenced to life imprisonment.
And Rubin said on the Geraldo Rivera television show, "Victor Vancier is a dangerous terrorist fanatic who brings shame to the Jewish people. You don't release live teargas in an audience of 4,000 ballet fans. And you don't run around New York and Washington blowing cars up and bombing the entrance to Lincoln Center. They should lock up crazy terrorists like Vancier and throw the key away."
For your information, kahaneloyalist, publicly urging death and imprisonment for fellow Jews IS informing.
Rubin's "tshuva" (repentence) only came when he saw that Jewish activists and religious Jews would not support someone who had said such things. His "tshuva" was completely insincere, and you cannot do tshuva unless you compensate the people you have wronged. How could Rubin compensate Pollard for inciting 30 million people against him, or Manning for inciting the radio audience, or me for inciting millions of Geraldo's viewers?
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בס''ד
downwithislam, doom has come to our forum asking that I urge you not to post on their forum any more.
I wouldn't want to disappoint doom. And so, this is my personal opinion: downwithislam, you are too good and too valuable a Jew to waste your time on a forum that defends informers and traitors, that spews hatred and lies against real Jewish activists, and that hates righteous gentiles.
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That is all that needs to be said! Thanks Chaim. Kahane.org could be so much more than it actually is. Well, whatever, JTF is THE place for learning. It might come slowly, but the movement WILL grow stronger.
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בס''ד
doom, your message is that we should not fight each other. And how do you convey that message? By coming on our forum and telling one of our best members to "shut up".
Might I also remind you that downwithislam was only RESPONDING to the non-stop anti-JTF hate and slander that he saw on your forum. For many years, Yekutiel has allowed a torrent of the most vicious hatred against JTF in general and against me personally. At the same time, Yekutiel defends the informer traitor Irv Rubin ys''v.
kahaneloyalist, with all due respect, your description of my position on working with Christians and gentiles is quite inaccurate. You say that I represent a small minority position. Can you cite a single leading rabbinic authority today who says that we should not work with Christians and gentiles who want to help Israel? In the religious nationalist camp, ALL of the leading rabbinic authorities today work with Christians and gentiles or at least try to. HaRav Dov Lior, HaRav Zalman Melamed, HaRav Mordechai Eliyahu, HaRav Yisrael Lau, and many others ALL meet with and try to convince Christian and gentile visitors to Israel to work together with rightwing Jews in America against Israeli territorial retreats. Whenever Christians and gentiles join demonstrations, Arutz 7 and the other religious nationalist media in Israel praise their participation.
Much more disturbing is your defense of the informer traitor Irv Rubin ys''v. You say he was not an informer. Rubin went on national television in front of 30 million Americans to incite them against the hero Jonathan Pollard. Here's what the person you are defending said: "Jonathan Pollard used his trusted position in the Defense Department to betray his country and pass secrets to a foreign nation. Someone who commits treason does not deserve a life sentence. If I could, I would sentence Pollard to death." The audience burst into frenzied applause and cheers, and the program host Merv Griffin and his other guest William F. Buckley also happily applauded and cheered.
THE PERSON WHO REALLY DESERVED THE DEATH SENTENCE WAS RUBIN, AND BARUCH HASHEM, HE RECEIVED IT.
On the Barry Farber radio show, Rubin also condemned Reuven Manning as a "terrorist murderer" when Manning was sentenced to life imprisonment.
And Rubin said on the Geraldo Rivera television show, "Victor Vancier is a dangerous terrorist fanatic who brings shame to the Jewish people. You don't release live teargas in an audience of 4,000 ballet fans. And you don't run around New York and Washington blowing cars up and bombing the entrance to Lincoln Center. They should lock up crazy terrorists like Vancier and throw the key away."
For your information, kahaneloyalist, publicly urging death and imprisonment for fellow Jews IS informing.
Rubin's "tshuva" (repentence) only came when he saw that Jewish activists and religious Jews would not support someone who had said such things. His "tshuva" was completely insincere, and you cannot do tshuva unless you compensate the people you have wronged. How could Rubin compensate Pollard for inciting 30 million people against him, or Manning for inciting the radio audience, or me for inciting millions of Geraldo's viewers?
I don't know much about Rubin. When I was at New Kach, I think I remember someone told me that JDL was not doing a good work, but many people in the forum lamnted his assasination.
In fact, one of the most important reasons why I am sometimes bitter about USA, is the fact that he and Krugel were assasinated there. How can a Jew say Ymach Shemo to another Jew who was assasinated by Anti-Semites?????????? How can a Jew say B"H at the murder of another Jew???????????
I mourned for Rubin and Kruggel. Reading this is too much for me to endure!!!!!!!!!!!! :'(
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Most Jews dont follow the Meiri and very few Kahanists do.
Source please? Obviously the founder of Kahanism disagreed!
I dont know what the Roni comment has to do with anything since he has never been involved with Kahane.org, Irv was not a religious Jew and because of this made mistakes, he never informed on anyone though he said foolish things and did his best to do teshuva I am aware Chaim doesnt like him.
Roni was one of Guzofsky's mods for many months last year. I don't know that they met, but it is fact that for a long time he tolerated his "the European Jews were disloyal to their governments" dreck. And you are right about Irv Rubin, who indeed ate pork and in fact dissed religious Judaism many times, but that didn't stop Guzofsky from befriending him.
Yes, the JTF forum is much larger then Kahane.org, but its Yekutiel who is actually doing work on the ground in Israel.
He runs a kennel. He passed around a few petitions last year. Big whoop. Did the army ever beat him black and blue for refusing to leave a hilltop? LOL.
Roni was working for Baruch Marzel, of the Hazit party moderator not Yekutiel, they are in no way connected.
Yes in fact Yekutiel has had many altercations with the army, it was Yekutiel who has been helping Yitzhack Hershkovitz get his Arab occupied land back, often with violent confrontations with both the Arabs and police.
Chaim, I told Jimmy Sullivan out of respect for you I would not post on the Notsri issue, I have made no secret that I follow the Rambam in this regard.
Irv Rubin did indeed do some very bad things, but from what I have heard from the people who knew him and knew Rabbi Kahane zt'l is Irv's actions came out of ignorance rather then malice, I understand your position though.
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Yes, the JTF forum is much larger then Kahane.org, but its Yekutiel who is actually doing work on the ground in Israel.
Don't you think that Chaim would like to do 'work on the ground in Israel'?
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It's funny how all the jtf haters like to minimize the bad that Irv Rubin Yimach Shmo did while minimizing the good Chaim did. Once I see that I know what the person is all about.
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It's too bad that many kahanists fight each other when the goal is one and the same.
I believe JTF is the best of the kahanist group because they include all walks of life to dialogue with one another even if there are huge disagreements of how to get to that point.
Chaim is right...don't waste your time posting on those other forums. It's one thing to go and read what they write. And if what they say is wrong or makes you angry, and you need to say something, say it mildly that you disagree and step aside. YOu shouldn't go into someone else's home and tell them how to live. The only thing you can say is that you don't like the way they live and let it be.
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Chaim is right...don't waste your time posting on those other forums. It's one thing to go and read what they write.
They always write the same things about JTF:
'Melting pot forum', 'goyish ideas', etc.
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Kahaneloyalist, you are the only Jew on this forum who is constantly trying to start crap with Christians. Get over it: the vast majority of your brothers and sisters do not hate us, and never will. I don't know what rebbe you follow, or what verses you derive this from, but Chaim and others have constantly explained to you that you are completely mistaken and wrong on this issue, and we have all told you time and time again to stop this, and yet you are more interested in bashing Christians than attacking the Arabs and self-hating Israeli/Jewish establishment or defending Chaim, Jonathan Pollard, and other good and loyal Jews from backstabbing Judenrats (like your hero Irv Rubin [ys"vz]).
Is JTF really the place for you, Aaron? Perhaps you would find more like-minded friends over at Revava, if you are really more interested in railing against the goy than in helping save Israel.
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Most Jews dont follow the Meiri and very few Kahanists do.
Source please? Obviously the founder of Kahanism disagreed!
Not true. R' Kahane held by the Rambam.
I dont know what the Roni comment has to do with anything since he has never been involved with Kahane.org, Irv was not a religious Jew and because of this made mistakes, he never informed on anyone though he said foolish things and did his best to do teshuva I am aware Chaim doesnt like him.
Roni was one of Guzofsky's mods for many months last year.
So, I assume you can tell me what his username was?
Yes, the JTF forum is much larger then Kahane.org, but its Yekutiel who is actually doing work on the ground in Israel.
He runs a kennel. He passed around a few petitions last year. Big whoop. Did the army ever beat him black and blue for refusing to leave a hilltop? LOL.
I wouldn't be surprised. He was kicked out of his home for three months, has been charged with the absurd crime of "incitement to racism," and those probably won't be the last things that'll be done to him.
And his dog program has done a very good job of protecting Tapuach. And most importantly, he runs a Yeshiva.
Now quit it with your slander.
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Yes, the JTF forum is much larger then Kahane.org, but its Yekutiel who is actually doing work on the ground in Israel.
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Wholeheartedly agree! O0
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Kahaneloyalist, you are the only Jew on this forum who is constantly trying to start crap with Christians. Get over it: the vast majority of your brothers and sisters do not hate us, and never will. I don't know what rebbe you follow, or what verses you derive this from, but Chaim and others have constantly explained to you that you are completely mistaken and wrong on this issue, and we have all told you time and time again to stop this, and yet you are more interested in bashing Christians than attacking the Arabs and self-hating Israeli/Jewish establishment or defending Chaim, Jonathan Pollard, and other good and loyal Jews from backstabbing Judenrats (like your hero Irv Rubin [ys"vz]).
Is JTF really the place for you, Aaron? Perhaps you would find more like-minded friends over at Revava, if you are really more interested in railing against the goy than in helping save Israel.
What is the number one killer of people in the history of the world? Christianity
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Kahaneloyalist, you are the only Jew on this forum who is constantly trying to start crap with Christians. Get over it: the vast majority of your brothers and sisters do not hate us, and never will. I don't know what rebbe you follow, or what verses you derive this from, but Chaim and others have constantly explained to you that you are completely mistaken and wrong on this issue, and we have all told you time and time again to stop this, and yet you are more interested in bashing Christians than attacking the Arabs and self-hating Israeli/Jewish establishment or defending Chaim, Jonathan Pollard, and other good and loyal Jews from backstabbing Judenrats (like your hero Irv Rubin [ys"vz]).
Is JTF really the place for you, Aaron? Perhaps you would find more like-minded friends over at Revava, if you are really more interested in railing against the goy than in helping save Israel.
What is the number one killer of people in the history of the world? Christianity
No, it was probably the Egyptians back in biblical times....or even the Romans around 70 C.E.
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I can understand the reasons some Jews dont like Christians, same reason most Serbs don't like Americans or Muslims. In the end, not all Christians or Jews are the same so what Chaim is doing is providing a common denominator for the greater good and i think that's a very rightous and much needed thing to do. I havn't seen anyone speak out for Serbs the way Chaim and a few other Jews have, and though i always considered Jews friends of Serbs, seeing them go out of their way for us only makes me respect you more, especially when the liberal ones like Madelline Alrbright and Tom Lantos are for whatever reason, anti-serb. It's plain to see how what Chaim is doing benefits both Jews and Christians, and not only that but all rightous people out there (that includes blacks, asians, indian people etc.) He might even help some Muslims question their faith and seek god. The world has gone past the point where we can just worry about ourselves and those around us, if we want to survive and ensure a prosperous future we all have to come together for a common cause, and that's what i see JTF as. Chaim is one of the only people in the world who will speak the truth with clarity, even when it is politically incorrect and that's what we need more of today in politics.
Long live Serbia! Long live Israel !Long live Cham! Long live JTF!
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Kahaneloyalist, you are the only Jew on this forum who is constantly trying to start crap with Christians. Get over it: the vast majority of your brothers and sisters do not hate us, and never will. I don't know what rebbe you follow, or what verses you derive this from, but Chaim and others have constantly explained to you that you are completely mistaken and wrong on this issue, and we have all told you time and time again to stop this, and yet you are more interested in bashing Christians than attacking the Arabs and self-hating Israeli/Jewish establishment or defending Chaim, Jonathan Pollard, and other good and loyal Jews from backstabbing Judenrats (like your hero Irv Rubin [ys"vz]).
Is JTF really the place for you, Aaron? Perhaps you would find more like-minded friends over at Revava, if you are really more interested in railing against the goy than in helping save Israel.
What is the number one killer of people in the history of the world? Christianity
Yes, you are right Christians have been the number one in murder. But all that Christians who did murder no longer exist. We can't live in the past. However, a bit of memory is good. One never knows the future......
But religion does not murder, it's man who uses or misuses it.
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Fake "Christian" NAZIS Croats and Germans killed a million of my people during WW2!
You have to realize, those Christians your talking about also killed many Christians, not just non-Christians, so it's different then Muslims extremists who TODAY believe in killing anyone who is not a Muslim. There were many jews who we're anti-christian too, everyone was killing everyone in the old days, the difference is our religion doesn't condone it! We can't hold religions responsible for when individuals in those religions do bad things, but we can definitelly hold a religion responsible when it is based on evil and gives orders to kill everyone who is not a part of that religion, and has no history at all of living in peace with other religions. The people who did the crusades were clearly not real Christians, and are the same nazi Christians who despise real orthidox Christians today! They may have killed in the name of Christianity, but if they had actually read the bible they would know what their doing is forbidden and not part of real Christianity! UNfortunatelly, false Christianity was always more political then about God and the Bible.
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No, it was probably the Egyptians back in biblical times....or even the Romans around 70 C.E.
Haha... Dominanus gets told by a fellow Jew... ;D
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No, it was probably the Egyptians back in biblical times....or even the Romans around 70 C.E.
Haha... Dominanus gets told by a fellow Jew... ;D
Whats so funny ??? . dan and myself aren't Askenazim, (so I probably cant and wont be able to fully feel what they feel), but people have strong feelings based on history that doesn't get errased in a second.
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No, it was probably the Egyptians back in biblical times....or even the Romans around 70 C.E.
Haha... Dominanus gets told by a fellow Jew... ;D
Whats so funny ??? . dan and myself aren't Askenazim, (so I probably cant and wont be able to fully feel what they feel), but people have strong feelings based on history that doesn't get errased in a second.
I'll add to this...the German Nazis during WWII...The Europeans who murdered Jews in teh name of Christianity did it 100's upon 1000 years ago...big difference from 60 years ago, I think...but even for me personally, it's hard for me to hate Germans although i dont' blame Jews to continue to hate Germany today because of the Nazis.
I'll add that there is nothing wrong with being vigilant.
But to claim that Christians are as murderous as they were way back then is to me a sign of paranoa...WIth times like today, you can trust a fellow Jew with your life also? Next thing you know, you can only put your trust in Gd, but what if Gd goes the other way and doesn't protect you?
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Dr. Dan, I am not going to continue this stupid fight any longer because Yacov told me to knock it off, but I did want to thank you for defending Christians here--it really did mean a lot to me. :)
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No, it was probably the Egyptians back in biblical times....or even the Romans around 70 C.E.
Haha... Dominanus gets told by a fellow Jew... ;D
Whats so funny ??? . dan and myself aren't Askenazim, (so I probably cant and wont be able to fully feel what they feel), but people have strong feelings based on history that doesn't get errased in a second.
I'll add to this...the German Nazis during WWII...The Europeans who murdered Jews in teh name of Christianity did it 100's upon 1000 years ago...big difference from 60 years ago, I think...but even for me personally, it's hard for me to hate Germans although i dont' blame Jews to continue to hate Germany today because of the Nazis.
I'll add that there is nothing wrong with being vigilant.
But to claim that Christians are as murderous as they were way back then is to me a sign of paranoa...WIth times like today, you can trust a fellow Jew with your life also? Next thing you know, you can only put your trust in Gd, but what if Gd goes the other way and doesn't protect you?
watch out for some european social-democrats and anti-globalists , they are the new anti-semites.
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New Western Anti-Semitism is disguised as Anti-Zionism because of the perceived injustice done to the "ancient Balelstinian Beoble". When European Anti-Semites became atheist, they need a new reason to hate Jews so rather than hate us for being "Christ killers", they hated us for being Semites and Non-European which is where the term Anti-Semitism comes from. It is a 19th Century German nationalist invention. But now they just disguise it as Anti-Zionism.
that's what is happening now in Europe. Is it also happening in the USA or Canada/Australia/Russia?
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I've known downwithislam for a while and have the utmost respect for him. I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, but I support whatever downwithislam has done.
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Dr. Dan, I am not going to continue this stupid fight any longer because Yacov told me to knock it off, but I did want to thank you for defending Christians here--it really did mean a lot to me. :)
i can defend christians a lot better than Germans since what the Germans did is still fresh in our minds...
But Chaim said it on many ask JTFs. What those Romans and Europeans did during the Diaspora only did it in the name of christianity...but what they did to us was very unchristian. The first christians were Jews. the second Christians were Romans and practiced a form of idolatry in the name of Christianity. The third christians were the protestants who steered away from a physical idolatry to a more invisible kind. The fourth christians are the born-agains and evangelicals who are coming to terms with the first christians who were Jews but this time these Christians are gentiles and not Jews. Some of these Christians are beginning to adopt certain halakha such as kashrut and even shabbat. In the end, moshiach will follow, but it won't make a difference who it will be because the fourth type of christians will believe, in essentially the same things Jews believe.
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New Western Anti-Semitism is disguised as Anti-Zionism because of the perceived injustice done to the "ancient Balelstinian Beoble". When European Anti-Semites became atheist, they need a new reason to hate Jews so rather than hate us for being "Christ killers", they hated us for being Semites and Non-European which is where the term Anti-Semitism comes from. It is a 19th Century German nationalist invention. But now they just disguise it as Anti-Zionism.
exactly correct!
Therefore the first anti-semites who murdered us did so in the wrong name of Christianity.. A real Christian back then woudl have never allowed this! So today, the real christians who remain are people like CF...the new anti-semites are these socialist athiests.