JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: briann on March 13, 2008, 12:43:32 PM
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Let me know if I need to edit my answers.
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under Jewish law Abortion is forbidden except when the mothers life is in danger then it is a requirment
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Only when the Mother is in danger and Rape and Incest that is my view
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It's somethign medical doctors need to seriously get together and discuss ethically with the help of spiritual leaders and then a proper law should be passed for when it should be permissable and not permissable. I only suggest this for gentile nations.
In Israel, only if the mother's life is danger. I just needs to be cleared up what mother's life in danger means.
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I changed the 2nd option to add the part about mothers life in danger.
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I only believe that it's justifiable when the mother's life is in danger. Any other reason is wrong.
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I know for shure, that it is forbidden for me (to have anything to do with it).
I will never say anything in order to justify it.
But I don't care a fig for what all the evil people *, but in my country do. I am simply not intrested.
In anyway I don't want to have anything to do with them.
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* I mean not all people, but the leftists, Nazis and Muzzies
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i wanted to clarify my opinion
The Jewish view of abortion should not be imposed on gentiles in gentile nations. They need to decide what is right based on what prescirbed...Medical doctors, ethicists, and spiritual leaders need to get together and talk about it seriously in each instant and then laws shoudl be passed by the government.
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Thanks for the clarification Dr. Dan. :)
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Yacov thanks for adding the option because I couldn't vote for any of the options that were up there.
Edit: I wish it worked that way in real life elections, to where you could just add an option
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Yaakov, the Noaahide Laws are Seven and their derivatives, not just abortion and homosexuality. What about adultery, idolatry, ever min hachai.........
And regarding abortion, only if the Mother's life is in danger. In no way for anyother reason, incest does not produce mamzerin among Gentiles, and being a Mamzer does not carry the death penalty, let alone infanticide. A child cannot be executed!!!!!
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The anti-semite mother of "Rev" Al Sharpton should have had an Abortion when she was Pregnant with Sharpton..l.
Heck, Al Sharpton's mom should have thrown Sharpton into a Garbage can and left him to die
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In the U.S. it should not only be legal but the government should pay for it.
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I know there are certain people we'd like to retro-actively abort.
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It should be legal if the mothers physical OR mental health is in danger AND in the case of rape or incest.
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It should be legal if the mothers physical OR mental health is in danger AND in the case of rape or incest.
Mental health????? Lots of women experience mental problems when their hormones are out of whack from the pregnancy.
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It should be legal if the mothers physical OR mental health is in danger AND in the case of rape or incest.
Mental health????? Lots of women experience mental problems when their hormones are out of whack from the pregnancy.
I'm talking more of a pack-raped teenager.
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It should be legal if the mothers physical OR mental health is in danger AND in the case of rape or incest.
Mental health????? Lots of women experience mental problems when their hormones are out of whack from the pregnancy.
I'm talking more of a pack-raped teenager.
oohhhhh...
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i wanted to clarify my opinion
The Jewish view of abortion should not be imposed on gentiles in gentile nations. They need to decide what is right based on what prescribed...Medical doctors, ethicists, and spiritual leaders need to get together and talk about it seriously in each instant and then laws should be passed by the government.
It's worse for Gentiles nations to permit abortion. Abortion and homosexuality are the two sins that G-d will destroy a whole Gentile nation for permitting. G-d completely obliterated Sodom and Gomorrah for homosexuality. Ancient Greece and Rome fell for permitting homosexuality.
Just like you can't be loyal to any country without being Pro-Israel because G-d will curse a nation that goes against Israel, you also can't be loyal to a country without being against homosexuality and abortion.
Yaacov, can you place an exact quote from Talmud and/or Torah about Abortions (since it is the topic here) by gentile nations (specifically) leading to their demise?
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I prefer that the supreme court justices chosen shoudl be the types who are very sensitive towards the life of the innocent... (notice that this can have a double meaning)
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under Jewish law Abortion is forbidden except when the mothers life is in danger then it is a requirment
kahaneloyalist, by no means am I doubting what you expressed regarding the Jewish law exception to the rule. This is something I was totally unaware of. I'm interested to learn more about this. If you or someone else can mention the specific passage in the Tanach or other book of Jewish law, it would be appreciated.
In the past, I've been totally against abortion under any circumstance. Believing strongly that life begins at Conception.
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In the U.S. it should not only be legal but the government should pay for it.
Interesting. Why do you think the government should pay for it?
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under Jewish law Abortion is forbidden except when the mothers life is in danger then it is a requirment
kahaneloyalist, by no means am I doubting what you expressed regarding the Jewish law exception to the rule. This is something I was totally unaware of. I'm interested to learn more about this. If you or someone else can mention the specific passage in The Tanach or other book of Jewish law, it would be appreciated.
In the past, I've been totally against abortion under any circumstance. Believing strongly that life begins at Conception.
IN the tanach, it is written (and i think somewhere in Leviticus...but not sure)
"If a pregnant woman is pushed and it causes a miscarriage, a fine is paid. If, the pregnant woman dies, then it is life for life."
-note that there is a fine if a miscarriage takes place, but when the living mother is killed, it is capital punishment as is found with murder. It is to imply that the status of life of a fetus is not equivalent to the mother.
-fellow jews, feel free to correct what i wrote.
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Only in cases of rape, Incest, severe genetic disease, mothers life in danger
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I can't believe i was the only one who put:
"The government has no right to interfere with a woman's decision to an abortion"
once you start allowing the government to start making decisions on what people can say and do then inevitably you loose your rights to democracy....
even if all the religions of the world agreed that having abortions is wrong there should not be a prohibition just because it was written thousands of years ago... while some laws should never change i don't believe that abortions should be made illegal on any level
thats my two cents
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I can't believe i was the only one who put:
"The government has no right to interfere with a woman's decision to an abortion"
once you start allowing the government to start making decisions on what people can say and do then inevitably you loose your rights to democracy....
even if all the religions of the world agreed that having abortions is wrong there should not be a prohibition just because it was written thousands of years ago... while some laws should never change i don't believe that abortions should be made illegal on any level
thats my two cents
sergio, i will put it quite simply the stance every government should make..
-better to err on the side of life than on the side of death. Better to be sensitive to life than to death.
now, this itself is open to interpretation...and i think for most governments, it better to put this as the stance and be oblique about specifics..leave it to Jews to decide the specifics for our own people.
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I can't believe i was the only one who put:
"The government has no right to interfere with a woman's decision to an abortion"
once you start allowing the government to start making decisions on what people can say and do then inevitably you loose your rights to democracy....
even if all the religions of the world agreed that having abortions is wrong there should not be a prohibition just because it was written thousands of years ago... while some laws should never change i don't believe that abortions should be made illegal on any level
thats my two cents
sergio, i will put it quite simply the stance every government should make..
-better to err on the side of life than on the side of death. Better to be sensitive to life than to death.
now, this itself is open to interpretation...and i think for most governments, it better to put this as the stance and be oblique about specifics..leave it to Jews to decide the specifics for our own people.
regardless of whether any government (crypto facist or otherwise) might install such prohibitions the conflict lies within at what stage is a person become a person and how old must the "being" be before it is considered murder...
i wouldn't suport the killing of another human being (unless it be absoulutely nessesary) but the question is when does a human being become one ... is it at birth, fetus in the womb or even earlier to constitute the notion of murder at any stage...
these things should be decided by the sunhedrin in Israel and if people choose to follow the words of Hashem then may they be blessed if one has doubts even after that one cannot be blamed for have individualistic thought on when does a human being become a separate entity, in of itself...
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Hi Sergio.
I think your missing something in your analysis.
I completely agree that the government should NOT tell us what to do, with one obvious exception... when our actions are CLEARLY interfering with the rights of someone else.
Basically that means, I can't go up to a random person and cut their fingers off, because that would be infringing on that OTHER person's rights, to live without being mutilated.
SO ergo..... By a mother, making a decision to terminate a baby/fetus... that IS CLEARLY infringing on the right of the unborn... unless of course you don't consider the unborn to have any rights because you fell they are not a living human, etc. and that is really what I'm trying to get at with this poll.
Brian
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Let me just revert back to my earlier statement or rather question ... at what point does a person become a person ?
is there a boundary that can be drawn to distinguish a human from a process of life being born... what is worse may ask... a government that takes away peoples rights to decide for themselves to do as they will within the court of law, bound by religion and theoretical doctrine? .... or freewill for people to decide what they think is the right choice by them ?...
you mentioned that killing an unborn baby is still murder and termination of anyone is evil but in the case you mentioned, the mother deciding upon circumstances and the fetus in the womb are not separate entities that baby is still a part of her...
its a complicated matter.. one which bears no real answer only religious law and doctrine which tells the people how to act not a law made by the act of the people...
Good topic though with only suggestive understanding in how a senario may be played out in real life.
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Let me just revert back to my earlier statement or rather question ... at what point does a person become a person ?
is there a boundary that can be drawn to distinguish a human from a process of life being born... what is worse may ask... a government that takes away peoples rights to decide for themselves to do as they will within the court of law, bound by religion and theoretical doctrine? .... or freewill for people to decide what they think is the right choice by them ?...
you mentioned that killing an unborn baby is still murder and termination of anyone is evil but in the case you mentioned, the mother deciding upon circumstances and the fetus in the womb are not separate entities that baby is still a part of her...
its a complicated matter.. one which bears no real answer only religious law and doctrine which tells the people how to act not a law made by the act of the people...
Good topic though with only suggestive understanding in how a senario may be played out in real life.
Thats why I have the poll. :)
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I can't believe i was the only one who put:
"The government has no right to interfere with a woman's decision to an abortion"
once you start allowing the government to start making decisions on what people can say and do then inevitably you loose your rights to democracy....
even if all the religions of the world agreed that having abortions is wrong there should not be a prohibition just because it was written thousands of years ago... while some laws should never change i don't believe that abortions should be made illegal on any level
thats my two cents
sergio, i will put it quite simply the stance every government should make..
-better to err on the side of life than on the side of death. Better to be sensitive to life than to death.
now, this itself is open to interpretation...and i think for most governments, it better to put this as the stance and be oblique about specifics..leave it to Jews to decide the specifics for our own people.
regardless of whether any government (crypto facist or otherwise) might install such prohibitions the conflict lies within at what stage is a person become a person and how old must the "being" be before it is considered murder...
i wouldn't suport the killing of another human being (unless it be absoulutely nessesary) but the question is when does a human being become one ... is it at birth, fetus in the womb or even earlier to constitute the notion of murder at any stage...
these things should be decided by the sunhedrin in Israel and if people choose to follow the words of Hashem then may they be blessed if one has doubts even after that one cannot be blamed for have individualistic thought on when does a human being become a separate entity, in of itself...
once again, the specifics is not up to any of us..based on that nation, the govt should go with the understanding that it is better to err on the side of life..and based on their culture/religion, they decide with the help of doctors and spiritual leaders what life means.