JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Yonathan Ben Yakov on May 22, 2008, 03:32:23 PM
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if muhammed claimed to be a prophet why is it that he never gave a Prophecie. if prophets tell about the future muhammed didnt even have one. so how can he be a prophet
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if muhammed claimed to be a prophet why is it that he never gave a Prophecie. if prophets tell about the future muhammed didnt even have one. so how can he be a prophet
O0 I see Rav Mizrahi realy influences many people. By the way send them email asking why they didn't put up his lectures for like 6 weeks. (I sent one again, but I guess I got annoying for them by now). I also spoke to Rav Mizrahi and he said that he wasn't their for 3 weeks around Pessah, but im still wondering about the other 3 lectures.
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if muhammed claimed to be a prophet why is it that he never gave a Prophecie. if prophets tell about the future muhammed didnt even have one. so how can he be a prophet
It is not a very strong argument since Muhammad claimed to have prophecies-
1. He spoke continuously about the last day, which is yet to come.
2. He predicted vaguely the fall of Persia.
3. He predicted the "severe punishment" that Allah has prepared for his enemies, a punishment that Mo and his followers later on delivered.
Muhammad was no miracle doer though, and he claimed that his words are in fact the miracle and that they are a self evidence that they are divine. He challenged people to show him even one surah which is as magnificent as the Quran.
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if muhammed claimed to be a prophet why is it that he never gave a Prophecie. if prophets tell about the future muhammed didnt even have one. so how can he be a prophet
It is not a very strong argument since Muhammad claimed to have prophecies-
1. He spoke continuously about the last day, which is yet to come.
2. He predicted vaguely the fall of Persia.
3. He predicted the "severe punishment" that Allah has prepared for his enemies, a punishment that Mo and his followers later on delivered.
Muhammad was no miracle doer though, and he claimed that his words are in fact the miracle and that they are a self evidence that they are divine. He challenged people to show him even one surah which is as magnificent as the Quran.
The Persia issue is no prophecy, because the Arabs of this time where allies of the Byzantine empire against Persia. They fought and won. The name of the emperor who leads the allied forces was Heraklios.
After this struggle were the East Roman forces weakened and the Arabs were "self employed".
Some scientists think, that Islam is a Christian heresy of monophysite believers.
But the pagan influences in Islam are in my oppinion too big.
In my oppinion is the Islam only an ideology of the new founded arab empire.
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i predicted a girl that i'm friends with would see my best friend on the train on a certain day and it happened..I didn't tell my best friend anything about it until it happened.
Does this make me a prophet?
So...Muhammed vaguely stated persia would fall...we can also vaguely say that Iran will fall...does that make us prophets?
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i predicted a girl that i'm friends with would see my best friend on the train on a certain day and it happened..I didn't tell my best friend anything about it until it happened.
Does this make me a prophet?
So...Muhammed vaguely stated persia would fall...we can also vaguely say that Iran will fall...does that make us prophets?
Obviously I don't think he was a prophet, and the arguments I raised are no proof of a prophecy. As with most claims, it much easier for one to claim prophecy than to negate such a claim.
Muhammed never gave a sign as any other prophet from the bible had, he always spoke obscurely and he contradicted himself and the other prophet whose prophesies he wrongfully claimed to be consistent with his message.
That is no prophet, that is a meshugas
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i predicted a girl that i'm friends with would see my best friend on the train on a certain day and it happened..I didn't tell my best friend anything about it until it happened.
Does this make me a prophet?
So...Muhammed vaguely stated persia would fall...we can also vaguely say that Iran will fall...does that make us prophets?
No because any prophet after moshe is considered a false prophet
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Just an forward email I got.....about prophecies in Islam, i just copied and pasted it didn't write it myself:
Take a look.... This has been told 1400yrs ago!!!!
* Camels will no longer be used as a means of transport;
* People will ride on saddles that aren't saddles (cars?)
* The distance on earth will become short;
* Horses will not be used in wars;
* Muslims will defeat the Byzantines which will end with the conquest of Constantinople Istanbul);
* The Jews will gather again to live in Bilad Canaan;
* Very tall buildings will be built;
* The disappearance of knowledge and the appearance of ignorance, with much killing;
* Adultery will become widespread, and the drinking of wine will become common;
* The number of men will decrease and the number of women will increase until there are 50 women to be looked after by one man.
* Islam will become worn out like clothes are, until no one will know what fasting, prayer, charity and rituals are;
* Allah will send a disease to fornicators that will have no cure (Aids?);
* People will begin to believe in the stars and reject AL QADAR (THE DIVINE DECREE OF DESTINY);
* Men will pass by people's graves and say: 'Would that I was in his place'; (large amount of suicidal deaths?)
* The Euphrates will uncover a mountain of gold for which people will fight over (the river of Alfurat that lies near Syria );
* Two large groups of people will fight one another, and there will be many casualties; they will both be following the same religion ISLAM!?! Sunni and shia! No offence! );
* Approximately 30 DAJJALS will appear, each one claiming to be the messenger of ALLAH;
* Earthquakes will increase; * Time will pass quickly;
* Afflictions will appear;
* Killing will increase;
* Wealth will increase;
* Women will be wearing clothes but not wearing clothes
THE PROPHET (saw) SAID: 'IF MY UMMAH BEARS 15 TRAITS (QUALITIES), TRIBULATION WILL FOLLOW IT.' (DAY OF JUDGEMENT) SOMEONE ASKED,'WHAT ARE THEY O MESSENGER OF ALLAH?' HE (saw) SAID:
* When any gain is shared out only among the rich, with no benefit to the poor;
* When a trust becomes a means of making profit;
* When paying ZAKKAT becomes a burden;
* When voices are raised in the mosque;
* When the leader of a people is the worst of them; when people treat a man with respect because what he may do;
* When much wine is drunk; red wind or the earth swallow them, or to be transformed into animals.'
* The appearance of the MAHDI;
* The appearance of the DAJJAL (Anti Christ); * The appearance of Ya'juj and Ma'juj (biblical Gog and Magog);
* Isa (Jesus) will come during the time of Dajjal;
* The rising of the sun from the west;
* The destruction of the Ka'ba and the recovery of its treasures;
* The smoke.
* 'IMRAN IBN HUSAYN SAID: 'THE PROPHET (AS) SAID, 'SOME PEOPLE OF THIS UMMAH WILL BE SWALLOWED BY THE EARTH, TRANSFORMED INTO ANIMALS, AND SOME WILL BE BOMBARDED WITH STONES'. ONE OF THE MUSLIMS ASKED, WHEN WILL THAT BE O MESSENGER Of ALLAH?' HE SAID, 'WHEN SINGERS AND MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS WILL BECOME POPULAR, AND MUCH WINE IS DRUNK.'' THE GREATER SIGNS OF THE HOUR The Quran will disappear in one night, even from the people's hearts, and no Ayah will be left on earth. (Some groups of old people will be left who will say: 'We heard of fathers' saying 'LAILLAHA ILLA ALLAH' so we repeat it);
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i predicted a girl that i'm friends with would see my best friend on the train on a certain day and it happened..I didn't tell my best friend anything about it until it happened.
Does this make me a prophet?
So...Muhammed vaguely stated persia would fall...we can also vaguely say that Iran will fall...does that make us prophets?
No because any prophet after moshe is considered a false prophet
??? Not true. Jews had many, many real Prophets after Moshe Rabbeinu.
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Just an forward email I got.....about prophecies in Islam, i just copied and pasted it didn't write it myself:
Take a look.... This has been told 1400yrs ago!!!!
* Camels will no longer be used as a means of transport;
* People will ride on saddles that aren't saddles (cars?)
* The distance on earth will become short;
* Horses will not be used in wars;
* Muslims will defeat the Byzantines which will end with the conquest of Constantinople Istanbul);
* The Jews will gather again to live in Bilad Canaan;
* Very tall buildings will be built;
* The disappearance of knowledge and the appearance of ignorance, with much killing;
* Adultery will become widespread, and the drinking of wine will become common;
* The number of men will decrease and the number of women will increase until there are 50 women to be looked after by one man.
* Islam will become worn out like clothes are, until no one will know what fasting, prayer, charity and rituals are;
* Allah will send a disease to fornicators that will have no cure (Aids?);
* People will begin to believe in the stars and reject AL QADAR (THE DIVINE DECREE OF DESTINY);
* Men will pass by people's graves and say: 'Would that I was in his place'; (large amount of suicidal deaths?)
* The Euphrates will uncover a mountain of gold for which people will fight over (the river of Alfurat that lies near Syria );
* Two large groups of people will fight one another, and there will be many casualties; they will both be following the same religion ISLAM!?! Sunni and shia! No offence! );
* Approximately 30 DAJJALS will appear, each one claiming to be the messenger of ALLAH;
* Earthquakes will increase; * Time will pass quickly;
* Afflictions will appear;
* Killing will increase;
* Wealth will increase;
* Women will be wearing clothes but not wearing clothes
THE PROPHET (saw) SAID: 'IF MY UMMAH BEARS 15 TRAITS (QUALITIES), TRIBULATION WILL FOLLOW IT.' (DAY OF JUDGEMENT) SOMEONE ASKED,'WHAT ARE THEY O MESSENGER OF ALLAH?' HE (saw) SAID:
* When any gain is shared out only among the rich, with no benefit to the poor;
* When a trust becomes a means of making profit;
* When paying ZAKKAT becomes a burden;
* When voices are raised in the mosque;
* When the leader of a people is the worst of them; when people treat a man with respect because what he may do;
* When much wine is drunk; red wind or the earth swallow them, or to be transformed into animals.'
* The appearance of the MAHDI;
* The appearance of the DAJJAL (Anti Christ); * The appearance of Ya'juj and Ma'juj (biblical Gog and Magog);
* Isa (Jesus) will come during the time of Dajjal;
* The rising of the sun from the west;
* The destruction of the Ka'ba and the recovery of its treasures;
* The smoke.
* 'IMRAN IBN HUSAYN SAID: 'THE PROPHET (AS) SAID, 'SOME PEOPLE OF THIS UMMAH WILL BE SWALLOWED BY THE EARTH, TRANSFORMED INTO ANIMALS, AND SOME WILL BE BOMBARDED WITH STONES'. ONE OF THE MUSLIMS ASKED, WHEN WILL THAT BE O MESSENGER Of ALLAH?' HE SAID, 'WHEN SINGERS AND MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS WILL BECOME POPULAR, AND MUCH WINE IS DRUNK.'' THE GREATER SIGNS OF THE HOUR The Quran will disappear in one night, even from the people's hearts, and no Ayah will be left on earth. (Some groups of old people will be left who will say: 'We heard of fathers' saying 'LAILLAHA ILLA ALLAH' so we repeat it);
These are just generalizations. Its like me saying I bet the sun will come up tommorow mourning. Anyway when given, they should have written where in the quran it could be found. Also these things are 1- expected and 2- generalizations where something was said and then you look at something that happened and say you see it was prophesized. Their is nothing solid.
When the Real Prophets made prophecies they said things that looked totally unimaginable but then came true. Also most were not generalizations for example their was a prophecy after the first temple was destroyed and Jews were exiled, that in 70 years Jews will return to the land of Israel, and it happened. Also many many many others.
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i predicted a girl that i'm friends with would see my best friend on the train on a certain day and it happened..I didn't tell my best friend anything about it until it happened.
Does this make me a prophet?
So...Muhammed vaguely stated persia would fall...we can also vaguely say that Iran will fall...does that make us prophets?
No because any prophet after moshe is considered a false prophet
Exactly right.
No, we Jews had plenty of prophets, they are just all a step below Moshe, but they are still prophets. But of course prophecy ended around the destruction of the temple and needless to say Muhammad (circa 600 ad) was never a prophet, never recognized by Jews, and never proved any prophecy even to goyim.
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Just an forward email I got.....about prophecies in Islam, i just copied and pasted it didn't write it myself:
Take a look.... This has been told 1400yrs ago!!!!
* Camels will no longer be used as a means of transport;
* People will ride on saddles that aren't saddles (cars?)
*
And so on.
Sarah I'm getting tired of you doing Islamic missionary work on a Jewish forum. Why do you insist upon presenting the taqiya garbage on here as if you believe the imams' lies? Did you look at that other thread where I completely refuted that other bogus Muslim taqiya myth? Unfortunately it was within the last two weeks so it's gone from the forum going down, but were you not a bit surprised by that, and are you not at all mad about the muslims who are misleading you?
I'm sure most of this is a combination of 1. garbage 2. lies 3. not even in the koran too but I don't have the time now to waste going through refuting it all. You really should learn arabic and not trust any of these "scholars" who are sending you this Islamic misinformation Sarah.
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Mo forgot to include the following:
* Dogs will continue to bark
* Domesticated Cats will tend to be lazy
* Population of lions and tigers will continue to decline
* Man will land on moon
* Man will be flying in air
* America will be found
* Finally and permanently Jewish will have peaceful and benevolent sway over whole of Middle East and its southern peninsula after ~1400 years of him.
With Regards... :)
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proof muhammed copied all the righteous western religions >:( :D
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These are just generalizations. Its like me saying I bet the sun will come up tommorow mourning. Anyway when given, they should have written where in the quran it could be found. Also these things are 1- expected and 2- generalizations where something was said and then you look at something that happened and say you see it was prophesized. Their is nothing solid.
When the Real Prophets made prophecies they said things that looked totally unimaginable but then came true. Also most were not generalizations for example their was a prophecy after the first temple was destroyed and Jews were exiled, that in 70 years Jews will return to the land of Israel, and it happened. Also many many many others.
Exactly my thoughts O0
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These are just generalizations. Its like me saying I bet the sun will come up tommorow mourning. Anyway when given, they should have written where in the quran it could be found. Also these things are 1- expected and 2- generalizations where something was said and then you look at something that happened and say you see it was prophesized. Their is nothing solid.
When the Real Prophets made prophecies they said things that looked totally unimaginable but then came true. Also most were not generalizations for example their was a prophecy after the first temple was destroyed and Jews were exiled, that in 70 years Jews will return to the land of Israel, and it happened. Also many many many others.
Exactly my thoughts O0
Excellent, well said O0
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These are just generalizations. Its like me saying I bet the sun will come up tommorow mourning. Anyway when given, they should have written where in the quran it could be found. Also these things are 1- expected and 2- generalizations where something was said and then you look at something that happened and say you see it was prophesized. Their is nothing solid.
When the Real Prophets made prophecies they said things that looked totally unimaginable but then came true. Also most were not generalizations for example their was a prophecy after the first temple was destroyed and Jews were exiled, that in 70 years Jews will return to the land of Israel, and it happened. Also many many many others.
Exactly my thoughts O0
Excellent, well said O0
True, and to Sarah- it is better to raise one serious argument then a mountain of trivialities copy-pasted from a muslim spam.
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i predicted a girl that i'm friends with would see my best friend on the train on a certain day and it happened..I didn't tell my best friend anything about it until it happened.
Does this make me a prophet?
So...Muhammed vaguely stated persia would fall...we can also vaguely say that Iran will fall...does that make us prophets?
Obviously I don't think he was a prophet, and the arguments I raised are no proof of a prophecy. As with most claims, it much easier for one to claim prophecy than to negate such a claim.
Muhammed never gave a sign as any other prophet from the bible had, he always spoke obscurely and he contradicted himself and the other prophet whose prophesies he wrongfully claimed to be consistent with his message.
That is no prophet, that is a meshugas
So, in other words, let's just say that predicting the weather was an act of prophecy it would go like this for Mohammed: "Tomorrow I predic it will be sunny." and then the next day it rains and he says, "No, i said it would rain. I told you so!"
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All those who claim and believe that Mohd was a Profet, may not be even aware of the spelling of Profet.
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All those who claim and believe that Mohd was a Profet, may not be even aware of the spelling of Profet.
I know three prophecies of Mo, which are all fullfilled:
1. The vast majority of Moslems in western countries will live from welfare money.
2. The vast majority of criminal people in western countries will be Moslems, specially in drug business and prostitution.
3. The vast majority of Moslems in western countries will have no professional education and they will be jobless because of it.
Perhaps Mo. was still a prophet. :::D
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All those who claim and believe that Mohd was a Profet, may not be even aware of the spelling of Profet.
I know three prophecies of Mo, which are all fullfilled:
1. The vast majority of Moslems in western countries will live from welfare money.
2. The vast majority of criminal people in western countries will be Moslems, specially in drug business and prostitution.
3. The vast majority of Moslems in western countries will have no professional education and they will be jobless because of it.
Perhaps Mo. was still a prophet. :::D
Moe-HAM-Mad ;D
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All those who claim and believe that Mohd was a Profet, may not be even aware of the spelling of Profet.
I know three prophecies of Mo, which are all fullfilled:
1. The vast majority of Moslems in western countries will live from welfare money.
2. The vast majority of criminal people in western countries will be Moslems, specially in drug business and prostitution.
3. The vast majority of Moslems in western countries will have no professional education and they will be jobless because of it.
Perhaps Mo. was still a prophet. :::D
Further prophecies of the so-called profet could have been:
* Liberal infidels will always try to assure that all Muslamics are not Terrorists. But they will never be able to refute that "All Terrorists are Muslamics".
* Leftist intellectuals will confidently claim that America is basically behind all the Muslamic Terrorism. But they will not be able to explain as to how the Muslamic Terrorism existed in full swing even before the birth of America.
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All those who claim and believe that Mohd was a Profet, may not be even aware of the spelling of Profet.
I know three prophecies of Mo, which are all fullfilled:
1. The vast majority of Moslems in western countries will live from welfare money.
2. The vast majority of criminal people in western countries will be Moslems, specially in drug business and prostitution.
3. The vast majority of Moslems in western countries will have no professional education and they will be jobless because of it.
Perhaps Mo. was still a prophet. :::D
Further prophecies of the so-called profet could have been:
* Liberal infidels will always try to assure that all Muslamics are not Terrorists. But they will never be able to refute that "All Terrorists are Muslamics".
* Leftist intellectuals will confidently claim that America is basically behind all the Muslamic Terrorism. But they will not be able to explain as to how the Muslamic Terrorism existed in full swing even before the birth of America.
Mohammed was a great man. Mohammed was a really great man.
He he he
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Muslims as others claim that they replaced or Fulfilled (yes muslims also say similar things like that also) on what the Yehudim have messed up on. Their claims- the Jews failed in their mission and G-d sent Mohammed, or a b c or d, to finish the job and to take over, but it is incorrect because 1 - G-d said that even though He will punish the Jews, He will never replace them because of the Eternal Covenent He made with our Nation. Also fact is that Mohammed Claimed like all the other religions and cults that G-d (actualy the angel Gabriel in this case) appeared to him and gave him revelations. How many witnesses? NON. Only the Yehudim recieved a revelation and prophecy in front of MILLIONS of people ranging from 3 million the bare minimum to at least 15 million probably the more accurate number. + the whole world heard about the miracles that G-d has performed for the Yehudim, while mohammed claimed to be a prophet with absolutly no witnesses.
What also amazes me is that they call him the greatest prophet, yett they do not even claim that he spoke to G-d, but only a messanger of G-d the angel Gavriel (which is also a lie). BUT at the same time the lowest Jew at Sinai had a bigger prophecy then even the great Prophet Yezekiel later on.
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All those who claim and believe that Mohd was a Profet, may not be even aware of the spelling of Profet.
I know three prophecies of Mo, which are all fullfilled:
1. The vast majority of Moslems in western countries will live from welfare money.
2. The vast majority of criminal people in western countries will be Moslems, specially in drug business and prostitution.
3. The vast majority of Moslems in western countries will have no professional education and they will be jobless because of it.
Perhaps Mo. was still a prophet. :::D
Moe-HAM-Mad ;D
mew hum mad
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Have a look at this ... stuff:
http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Muhammad-and-Judaism/prophecies_by_mohammed.htm
"I myself was influenced by my knowledge of the Bible to accept the Prophethood of Muhammad, and have had two Jewish rabbis admitting to me in Speaker's Corner that Muhammad was the Prophet spoken of in their books. ..."
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Have a look at this ... stuff:
http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Muhammad-and-Judaism/prophecies_by_mohammed.htm
"I myself was influenced by my knowledge of the Bible to accept the Prophethood of Muhammad, and have had two Jewish rabbis admitting to me in Speaker's Corner that Muhammad was the Prophet spoken of in their books. ..."
Muslim missionary alert.
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Have a look at this ... stuff:
http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Muhammad-and-Judaism/prophecies_by_mohammed.htm
"I myself was influenced by my knowledge of the Bible to accept the Prophethood of Muhammad, and have had two Jewish rabbis admitting to me in Speaker's Corner that Muhammad was the Prophet spoken of in their books. ..."
What for a nonsense.
The 6 great hadith-collections were all written in the 9th century.
Jerusalem was since 638 under Arab Muslim control.
This prophecies about the capture of Jerusalem are nonsense. ;D
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Muslim missionary alert.
If you meant me and not the linked site:
Sorry, I didn't think anyone on this forum could take this site serious.
I believe Muhammed to be a cursed. That is what the bible tells me:
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
Galatians 1:8
Is there a way that I can delete the link?
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Have a look at this ... stuff:
http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Muhammad-and-Judaism/prophecies_by_mohammed.htm
"I myself was influenced by my knowledge of the Bible to accept the Prophethood of Muhammad, and have had two Jewish rabbis admitting to me in Speaker's Corner that Muhammad was the Prophet spoken of in their books. ..."
This is clearly from a Mad false prophetic site >:(
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Muslim missionary alert.
If you meant me and not the linked site:
Sorry, I didn't think anyone on this forum could take this site serious.
I believe Muhammed to be a cursed. That is what the bible tells me:
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
Galatians 1:8
Is there a way that I can delete the link?
could you modify your post, yes.
But don't worry. Only tzvi thought that - and accidentally! People are silly in their own ways.. I doubt you'll be misunderstood in that way by anybody else. Especially not now.
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if muhammed claimed to be a prophet why is it that he never gave a Prophecie. if prophets tell about the future muhammed didnt even have one. so how can he be a prophet
It is not a very strong argument since Muhammad claimed to have prophecies-
1. He spoke continuously about the last day, which is yet to come.
2. He predicted vaguely the fall of Persia.
3. He predicted the "severe punishment" that Allah has prepared for his enemies, a punishment that Mo and his followers later on delivered.
Muhammad was no miracle doer though, and he claimed that his words are in fact the miracle and that they are a self evidence that they are divine. He challenged people to show him even one surah which is as magnificent as the Quran.
The Persia issue is no prophecy, because the Arabs of this time where allies of the Byzantine empire against Persia. They fought and won. The name of the emperor who leads the allied forces was Heraklios.
After this struggle were the East Roman forces weakened and the Arabs were "self employed".
Some scientists think, that Islam is a Christian heresy of monophysite believers.
But the pagan influences in Islam are in my oppinion too big.
In my oppinion is the Islam only an ideology of the new founded arab empire.
Didn't the Arabs of that time attack the Byzantines? Were they really allies pheasant? I read that they took land from the byzantines.
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Muslam was only a tool for dictatorship of Mohd, for Expansionism of Arab Empire and for Global domination of the evil. >:(