JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: americankahanist on June 22, 2008, 08:19:48 PM
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Video is my hobby and business. I was hired to tape an Elvis impersonator singing Elvis gospell tunes at the United Assembly Church of God in Farmingdale Long Island. In the front of the altar was an American flag and on the other side, a flag that I did not recognize. Maybe it was a church flag. However on the altar, just as big as the other flags, was the Israeli flag and to the side, a wooden plaque with the Jewish star engraved on it.
Obviously, this church followes the Bible and supports Israel and the Jewish people.
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Possibly a Mormon Church? The Star of David for some odd reason is a symbol of theirs and big supporters of Israel as well! Farmingdale, are you from there? Originally, I'm from Commack in Suffolk County.
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they use jewish symbols to win jews over to christianity.
calling jesus "yeshu",
avoiding the term christianity, and calling it messianic judaism.. Some even call their churches "messianic synagogues". And their ministers "Rabbi". And they vary to te extent of their use of jewish symbols. Some even wear jewish prayer garments. All to win over ignorant jews.
There may be one or two that use them innocently - maybe!! But don't start embracing these groups. Honest christians are better.
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they use jewish symbols to win jews over to christianity.
calling jesus "yeshu",
avoiding the term christianity, and calling it messianic judaism.. Some even call their churches "messianic synagogues". And their ministers "Rabbi". And they vary to te extent of their use of jewish symbols. Some even wear jewish prayer garments. All to win over ignorant jews.
There may be one or two that use them innocently - maybe!! But don't start embracing these groups. Honest christians are better.
The strange thing is things like Wikipedia call these people "Jewish Christians".
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they use jewish symbols to win jews over to christianity.
calling jesus "yeshu",
avoiding the term christianity, and calling it messianic judaism.. Some even call their churches "messianic synagogues". And their ministers "Rabbi". And they vary to te extent of their use of jewish symbols. Some even wear jewish prayer garments. All to win over ignorant jews.
There may be one or two that use them innocently - maybe!! But don't start embracing these groups. Honest christians are better.
Good post you know your stuff. Crazy brainwashing going on inside.
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they use jewish symbols to win jews over to christianity.
calling jesus "yeshu",
avoiding the term christianity, and calling it messianic judaism.. Some even call their churches "messianic synagogues". And their ministers "Rabbi". And they vary to te extent of their use of jewish symbols. Some even wear jewish prayer garments. All to win over ignorant jews.
There may be one or two that use them innocently - maybe!! But don't start embracing these groups. Honest christians are better.
The strange thing is things like Wikipedia call these people "Jewish Christians".
well, people have all sorts of ideas about what "jewish" means.
and in orthodox judaism, anybody is jewish if their mother is jewish, or they converted. simple rule, no confusion.
So, people who are born jewish, may be atheists , or any kind of bad jew, but they are still jewish.
Of Jews that don't believe in judaism , most still call themselves jews, but it's a bit meaningless. They may mean culturally jewish, or ethnically jewish. The only way they may be culturally jewish is they eat bagels. Ethnicity- sounds like just some racial thing, pathetic really. A pathetic reason to "be jewish". So calling themselves jews becomes a psychological mess.
They are self hating and really define it according to how Hitler would have. Anybody with a jewish grandparent. is jewish enough for hitler, and would have been killed for being a jew.. and so how can you be so cruel as to say they weren't jewish!
I read somewhere that 30% of american buddists are jews. Some or most of the dalai larma's best disciples are jews. (bad , off the rails, disbelieving jews, but jews).
The christian missionaries know that jews don't like to throw away the fact that they are jewish. Their parents and parent's parents kept the religion, and the ignorant jews don't want to feel like they are completely betraying their heritage. So they say you can be a jewish christian.. (And unfortunately, I think they are correct e.g. you can have jewish atheists). But they imply that that is ok, that it's not bad. And saying he is jewish gives the ignorant jew a psychological cushion. So he can say he is still jewish. If calls himself jewish for religious reasons e.g. according to judaism, then he should accept he is a bad jew. If he calls himself that for ethnic reasons then that's a pathetic racial thing. And if he calls himself that for cultural reasons , then that's just rubbish, then any muslim anti-semite can be as jewish as him by eating bagels. It is very unjewish in culture and religion! I wouldn't delve into whether are jewish or aren't jewish.. If they are then they are bad jews, so they shouldn't let calling themselves jewish be a consolation.
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No- all this means is that they support Israel, and probably donate to Israel as well. They are not trying to win ANYBODY, churched are having a hard enough time keeping their own pews filled. Thats the truth.
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No- all this means is that they support Israel, and probably donate to Israel as well. They are not trying to win ANYBODY, churched are having a hard enough time keeping their own pews filled. Thats the truth.
I know you won't like it, but these messianic churches are a serious problem..
And if I was to ask you
a)are you jewish? (yes, no)
So, yes or no?
b)do you deny that jesus/yeshu was/is the messiah? say Deny if you deny that he is/was the messiah. Say Accept if you accept him as the messiah (deny,accept)
So, deny or accept?
then what is your response to those 2 questions?
one word answer for each of them
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Video is my hobby and business. I was hired to tape an Elvis impersonator singing Elvis gospell tunes at the United Assembly Church of G-d in Farmingdale Long Island. In the front of the altar was an American flag and on the other side, a flag that I did not recognize. Maybe it was a church flag. However on the altar, just as big as the other flags, was the Israeli flag and to the side, a wooden plaque with the Jewish star engraved on it.
Obviously, this church followes the Bible and supports Israel and the Jewish people.
How was the Elvis impersonator?
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No- all this means is that they support Israel, and probably donate to Israel as well. They are not trying to win ANYBODY, churched are having a hard enough time keeping their own pews filled. Thats the truth.
I know you won't like it, but these messianic churches are a serious problem..
And if I was to ask you
a)are you jewish? (yes, no)
So, yes or no?
b)do you deny that jesus/yeshu was/is the messiah? say Deny if you deny that he is/was the messiah. Say Accept if you accept him as the messiah (deny,accept)
So, deny or accept?
then what is your response to those 2 questions?
one word answer for each of them
First of all, An Assembly of G-d church, is not a Messianic Synogogue. I KNOW how much trouble churches that represent "Christianity" they are clearly NOT of the N.T., they show NO love to ANYONE. But, I know for SURE that the Assembly of G-d churches support Israel and send money for Jews that are still stuck in Russia- $1500- for a family of 4. IF ANYONE knows what I face on my email threads, and in my personal life, with FRAUD "Christians" I would like to know if YOU have as many neo-nazi's in YOUR life. I have spent a LOT of time, in temples/synogogues, churches, and messianic synogogues, my father was a stained glass glazier, on Long Island, NY, EVERY Church AND Synogogue pre 1970, MY father did ALL of the stained glass windows- about 80% of them, NOT "The Sommers" My father & HIS father did them ALL.
Option #3. I have already discussed this with you q_q.
Being Crypto-Jew, I dont appreciate being put under a gun, I respect you, but I absolutely detest when this is forced on me, this makes me feel like I felt as a kid, with people were pushing me, and I HATE this.
FACTS:
#1. I give hours to JTF with TRUE intentions in my heart.
#2. I dont "missionize" for the Jewish faith OR ANY other faith, and would not even presume to, and show me WHERE I EVER have, it is against EVERYTHING in me.
#3. I do the BEST I can to champion for the young Jewish and Christian men and women of the JTF.
#4. David ben Moshe is my future husband.
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First of all, An Assembly of G-d church, is not a Messianic Synogogue. I KNOW how much trouble churches that represent "Christianity" they are clearly NOT of the N.T., they show NO love to ANYONE. But, I know for SURE that the Assembly of G-d churches support Israel and send money for Jews that are still stuck in Russia- $1500- for a family of 4. IF ANYONE knows what I face on my email threads, and in my personal life, with FRAUD "Christians" I would like to know if YOU have as many neo-nazi's in YOUR life. I have spent a LOT of time, in temples/synogogues, churches, and messianic synogogues, my father was a stained glass glazier, on Long Island, NY, EVERY Church AND Synogogue pre 1970, MY father did ALL of the stained glass windows- about 80% of them, NOT "The Sommers" My father & HIS father did them ALL.
Option #3. I have already discussed this with you q_q.
Being Crypto-Jew, I dont appreciate being put under a gun, I respect you, but I absolutely detest when this is forced on me, this makes me feel like I felt as a kid, with people were pushing me, and I HATE this.
FACTS:
#1. I give hours to JTF with TRUE intentions in my heart.
#2. I dont "missionize" for the Jewish faith OR ANY other faith, and would not even presume to, and show me WHERE I EVER have, it is against EVERYTHING in me.
#3. I do the BEST I can to champion for the young Jewish and Christian men and women of the JTF.
#4. David ben Moshe is my future husband.
Don't worry about q q. He's that way.
He insulted my Mother.
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No- all this means is that they support Israel, and probably donate to Israel as well. They are not trying to win ANYBODY, churched are having a hard enough time keeping their own pews filled. Thats the truth.
I know you won't like it, but these messianic churches are a serious problem..
And if I was to ask you
a)are you jewish? (yes, no)
So, yes or no?
b)do you deny that jesus/yeshu was/is the messiah? say Deny if you deny that he is/was the messiah. Say Accept if you accept him as the messiah (deny,accept)
So, deny or accept?
then what is your response to those 2 questions?
one word answer for each of them
First of all, An Assembly of G-d church, is not a Messianic Synogogue. I KNOW how much trouble churches that represent "Christianity" they are clearly NOT of the N.T., they show NO love to ANYONE. But, I know for SURE that the Assembly of G-d churches support Israel and send money for Jews that are still stuck in Russia- $1500- for a family of 4. IF ANYONE knows what I face on my email threads, and in my personal life, with FRAUD "Christians" I would like to know if YOU have as many neo-nazi's in YOUR life. I have spent a LOT of time, in temples/synogogues, churches, and messianic synogogues, my father was a stained glass glazier, on Long Island, NY, EVERY Church AND Synogogue pre 1970, MY father did ALL of the stained glass windows- about 80% of them, NOT "The Sommers" My father & HIS father did them ALL.
Option #3. I have already discussed this with you q_q.
Being Crypto-Jew, I dont appreciate being put under a gun, I respect you, but I absolutely detest when this is forced on me, this makes me feel like I felt as a kid, with people were pushing me, and I HATE this.
FACTS:
#1. I give hours to JTF with TRUE intentions in my heart.
#2. I dont "missionize" for the Jewish faith OR ANY other faith, and would not even presume to, and show me WHERE I EVER have, it is against EVERYTHING in me.
#3. I do the BEST I can to champion for the young Jewish and Christian men and women of the JTF.
#4. David ben Moshe is my future husband.
I understand..
But I just wanted to make the point that the fact that you would not answer those questions directly and confidently, because you are somewhat jewish and christian.
This means that your comments about messianic churchs or a messianic "synagogue", are going to be bias.
I know you don't like being asked those questions, and I am not forcing you to. And you don't have to . You've made your point, and mine. Which is not against you.
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<snip>
Don't worry about q q. He's that way.
He insulted my Mother.
This is only the second time I have reported a post to moderators.
The first time was a pornographic picture.
You are a gentile, and should not be cursing people in jewish religious terms that you have no understanding of. Coming from a jew , your comment would also be unacceptable.
And when I insulted you, (many threads ago) and made a joke about your mother, it was when you insulted/offended some of the great women on this forum, by saying they were mentally less than men.
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q_q
Yes, I know what I look like, you think I DONT KNOW>? Do you have ANY idea how it is to have BOTH faiths in your family>? this is PRECISELY WHY I did not have children. I like you and think your posts are exc. however, Scriabin is def. taking up for me, b/c I also am 1,000,000,000% AGAINST the femnazi movement, and for sure- I AM the White Anglo Saxon Mans CHAMPION. In paltalk, b/c of my very POWERFUL stance against that sick movement, many men have been fighting these ugly she-beasts, I am FOR the Scriabins of the USA.
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Guys, guys, let's not go down this road. It is going to get ugly, fast.
This forum has a rule against missionizing. So far I have not seen anyone doing that.
Let's let this die, or better yet, lock the thread.
Chaimfan
PS: AoG churches are not "Messianic". They may support Israel, but they are not the same as "Messianic synagogues" by any stretch.
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q-q:
This means that your comments about messianic churchs or a messianic "synagogue", are going to be bias
No, there is a MAJOR difference in a messianic synogogue. the most recent one that I went to was in 1999, and they are clearly not anything like a church in the LEAST bit.
Most churches that have the Star- DEF support Israel. They are friends of Jews, and huge friends of Israel. So, I am def. NOT biased, they also do NOT NOT NOT try to win over Jewish people, Messianic missionary 'evangelists' do.
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Paulette, let's let this thread die. These debates always get nasty.
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q_q
Yes, I know what I look like, you think I DONT KNOW>? Do you have ANY idea how it is to have BOTH faiths in your family>? <snip>
i'm sure it is very tough. I know you have a crypto background..
I asked you a painful question, but it was to avert a great danger, which was I didn't want people to be misled into thinking that a church with a star of david is normal. And it's important that people know about messianic churches, they would use jewish symbols.
If this church is not messianic, then i'm glad. But many are.. And people should be aware of that. And that they use jewish symbols..
As soon as you gave your answer I said that's fine.. you didn't need to. It was
Now..
I didn't say it was or was not messianic...
I think a conclusion here, is that
assuming that you are correct, that Assembly of G-d church is not messianic.. and not out to get jews.
The fact is, that if you see a church with jewish symbols, then don't suspect that it is good for JTF to ally with it.. I think you should suspect that it is messianic..
This church may be ok, - NOT because of the star of david .
But because it is called an "Assembly of G-d church", and some regulars are familiar with that group of church.
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Paulette, let's let this thread die. These debates always get nasty.
OK.. NP. Just tell people not to push me, I am a fighter- I am NO good to fight with. I lived with fighters my whole life. They told me as a little tiny girl: You fight until the person you are fighting with is humbled.
So-
OK, N.P. CF.
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I attended an AoG church for many years. It is a mainstream evangelical Christian denomination. It is not a Messianic organization. They want everyone to believe in Christ, but do not specifically target anyone for witnessing.
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I attended an AoG church for many years. It is a mainstream evangelical Christian denomination. It is not a Messianic organization. They want everyone to believe in Christ, but do not specifically target anyone for witnessing.
yes, I gathered that.
And my point is still that it's OK because regulars here know the AoG church.
But if you see a church with jewish symbols, then your antennae have to go up. There are messianic churches around.
It may be that stars of david are common amongst non messianic churches too.. That is worth knowing. But I would still be suspicious . Not of AoG, but of a church with any jewish symbols, that it might be messianic.
AoG is removed from suspicion, because your own experience with it suggests that it is not messianic.
certainly though if a church has more jewish symbols then a star of david, then be very suspicious!
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Evangelical Christians want everyone to believe in Jesus--not just one particular group. I don't know the motives of every single church that uses the seal of Solomon, but I am completely positive that AoG does not base itself upon converting Jews. In fact, it seems like most AoG churches around here are primarily geared towards the Hispanic community.
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Evangelical Christians want everyone to believe in Jesus--not just one particular group. I don't know the motives of every single church that uses the seal of Solomon, but I am completely positive that AoG does not base itself upon converting Jews. In fact, it seems like most AoG churches around here are primarily geared towards the Hispanic community.
I know evangelicals are very good and sincere.. better zionists than most jews!
Liberals smirk and say "oh they just want you all to become christian" ..
An anti missionary once joked that they say "you are very very special, the chosen people.. you know how important you are... You are the *sacrifical lamb*"!!!! (I don't know if he was correct.. he said they want us gathered there for armageddon)
Point is though, their beliefs don't affect us. We have our beliefs, they have theirs, and that's fine. Religious jews aren't bothered by that.. even if christians believe we are all going to hell.. that's fine - just doing knock on our doors or accost us or jewish children on public transport!
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"Church of God" is not a Messianic congregation. There is a wide gap between Messianics and mainstream Christians. In many cases we get along very well with Jewish organizations like JTF rather than with the Messianics. The biggest problem we have with Messiancis is their attempt to develop "Messianic Halacha" which has no place in NT Christianity. NT strongly supports zionism but does not agree with the concept of Oral law. However many Messianics attempt to bridge Oral law and NT which is impossible. Just as an FYI... Oral law in the time of Jesus was known as "the tradition of the elders". NT recongizes that there was something called "the tradition of the elders" but does not give Divine authority to it.
My Church has a US flag and an Israeli flag on either side in the main santuary. We are part of Pastor John Hagee's "Christians United for Israel" network. We do not target Jews for conversion. Even some Rabbis are very good friends with my Pastor. Our Church strongly supports zionism and the restoration of Israel.
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Good points by all. By the way, it should be pointed out that the early Christians (such as Paul) never actually condemned Judaism or told people they had to give their Jewishness up. This is a lie that was invented by anti-Semites hundreds of years later in the church. Paul (who never renounced his membership in the Pharisaical branch of Judaism) taught that keeping halacha is optional and not mandatory for salvation, not something wrongful that had to be stopped.
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"Church of G-d" is not a Messianic congregation. There is a wide gap between Messianics and mainstream Christians. In many cases we get along very well with Jewish organizations like JTF rather than with the Messianics. The biggest problem we have with Messiancis is their attempt to develop "Messianic Halacha" which has no place in NT Christianity. NT strongly supports zionism but does not agree with the concept of Oral law. However many Messianics attempt to bridge Oral law and NT which is impossible. Just as an FYI... Oral law in the time of Jesus was known as "the tradition of the elders". NT recongizes that there was something called "the tradition of the elders" but does not give Divine authority to it.
My Church has a US flag and an Israeli flag on either side in the main santuary. We are part of Pastor John Hagee's "Christians United for Israel" network. We do not target Jews for conversion. Even some Rabbis are very good friends with my Pastor. Our Church strongly supports zionism and the restoration of Israel.
that's great..
here's a question .
walking into a mainstream church vs a messianic church.
just -looking-
what would be the differences.
I ask, since some people won't be able to delve into their theology or rituals, or if they do then they're finding out a bit late.
I have heard of some messianic churches having a tallit rack - a rack for jewish prayer garmants..
what other jewish symbols would they have? some gentiles might not notice something like a tallit/tallus rack.
This is what a tallit looks like (and I think these are actually ignorant reform/conservative jews each, including the old man - probably their "rabbi", is wearing treif-non kosher- tallit which is probably quite accurate in terms of what you'd see in a messianic synagogue.. that style of tallit)
http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/images/objects/tallit-men.jpg
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Well, there are many different kinds of Messianic churches, and they have very variable beliefs. It is not a single movement. Some of them are basically mainstream Christian churches with a Judaized appearance/focus, and some of them are an actual hybrid of Judaism and Christianity, as Christian Zionist mentioned. This latter variety is definitely heretical by all standards of Christendom.
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Good points by all. By the way, it should be pointed out that the early Christians (such as Paul) never actually condemned Judaism or told people they had to give their Jewishness up. This is a lie that was invented by anti-Semites hundreds of years later in the church. Paul (who never renounced his membership in the Pharisaical branch of Judaism) taught that keeping halacha is optional and not mandatory for salvation, not something wrongful that had to be stopped.
Paul himself said something along the lines of
To the jews I am as a jew so that I may win them over..
e.t.c.
1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became like a Jew in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became like a man under the law, in order to win those under the law (although I myself am not under the law).
sounds like he would renounce judaism to me, and adopt it when it suited him. And the brackets say that he had renounced it!
Not under the law means renouncing judaism. Or as you call it, pharaisic judaism.
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Well, there are many different kinds of Messianic churches, and they have very variable beliefs. It is not a single movement. Some of them are basically mainstream Christian churches with a Judaized appearance/focus, and some of them are an actual hybrid of Judaism and Christianity, as Christian Zionist mentioned. This latter variety is definitely heretical by all standards of Christendom.
as far as judaism is concerned, they are all forbidden to jews..
so aside from their beliefs, I am wondering what signs there are, i.e., signs that one sees with one's eyes, that indicate it is messianic.
I personally don't need to know since I would not go in a church, but some gentiles here like the original poster, might stand to gain from knowing.
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He knew that he did not have to abide by the law in order to reach salvation. He never actually rejected it. What he condemned was telling people that they must practice all of Torah in order to get to heaven.
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so aside from their beliefs, I am wondering what signs there are, i.e., signs that one sees with one's eyes, that indicate it is messianic.
They almost invariably have a Hebrew name or are called a temple rather than a church.
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He knew that he did not have to abide by the law in order to reach salvation. He never actually rejected it. What he condemned was telling people that they must practice all of Torah in order to get to heaven.
The idea that you have to practice all of torah to get to heaven, when christians refer to that, they mean without any sin, which is impossible. And that is how they present pharaisic judaism, as teaching that one has to keep -all- of it perfectly. So they teach that you go to hell unless you accept J.
nobody actually taught what Paul claimed.. (assuming it was paul that claimed that and not another gospel writer).
But he was rejecting pharaisic judaism by saying that. He was just twisting it in order to help turn people away from it. He wasn't condemning a belief that didn't exist.. His condemnation was his twist on pharaisic judaism, which was what he was condemning.
pharaisic judaism is belief in keeping the law.. condemning what he condemned was meant to condemn pharaisic judaism
note- christian theology is not my area of expertise!
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Good points by all. By the way, it should be pointed out that the early Christians (such as Paul) never actually condemned Judaism or told people they had to give their Jewishness up. This is a lie that was invented by anti-Semites hundreds of years later in the church. Paul (who never renounced his membership in the Pharisaical branch of Judaism) taught that keeping halacha is optional and not mandatory for salvation, not something wrongful that had to be stopped.
Paul himself said something along the lines of
To the jews I am as a jew so that I may win them over..
e.t.c.
1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became like a Jew in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became like a man under the law, in order to win those under the law (although I myself am not under the law).
sounds like he would renounce judaism to me, and adopt it when it suited him. And the brackets say that he had renounced it!
Not under the law means renouncing judaism. Or as you call it, pharaisic judaism.
(although I myself am not under the law).
1. Paul here is not referring to the Oral law but only to the written Torah. In those days the Oral law was yet to be codified as Mishna. So Paul here obviously refers to the written law (first 5 books of the Tanach). Also there is no concept of Oral law in Christianity
2. Not under the law means..... A dead person is not under the law. God gave the Jews Torah and made covenant with them. They are eternal and God's convenant cannot be changed or cancelled by anyone. The only way for a human being to come out of the law is by death. A dead person cannot be prosecuted. Here Paul means he was dead when Jesus died (as a planet would collapse when the solar system collapses). The same is applicable to
every true Christian. For example I, who is a Bible believing Christian do not believe that NT cancelled the Tanach. All commandments listed in the first 5 books of the Tanach are still vaild but by death (which we believe by faith) we Christians get around the law.
As Chaim Fan pointed out observing the law is not mandatory for salvation.
Even some Christian Churches display Jewish symbols and Pastor preach on specific themes related to Jewish festivals. The best way to distinguish a main stream Church and a Messianic congregation is by the title displayed on the sign boards. Messianics do not use the term Christian in their labels.
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Good points by all. By the way, it should be pointed out that the early Christians (such as Paul) never actually condemned Judaism or told people they had to give their Jewishness up. This is a lie that was invented by anti-Semites hundreds of years later in the church. Paul (who never renounced his membership in the Pharisaical branch of Judaism) taught that keeping halacha is optional and not mandatory for salvation, not something wrongful that had to be stopped.
Paul himself said something along the lines of
To the jews I am as a jew so that I may win them over..
e.t.c.
1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became like a Jew in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became like a man under the law, in order to win those under the law (although I myself am not under the law).
sounds like he would renounce judaism to me, and adopt it when it suited him. And the brackets say that he had renounced it!
Not under the law means renouncing judaism. Or as you call it, pharaisic judaism.
(although I myself am not under the law).
1. Paul here is not referring to the Oral law but only to the written Torah. In those days the Oral law was yet to be codified as Mishna. So Paul here obviously refers to the written law (first 5 books of the Tanach). Also there is no concept of Oral law in Christianity
2. Not under the law means..... A dead person is not under the law. G-d gave the Jews Torah and made covenant with them. They are eternal and G-d's convenant cannot be changed or cancelled by anyone. The only way for a human being to come out of the law is by death. A dead person cannot be prosecuted. Here Paul means he was dead when Jesus died (as a planet would collapse when the solar system collapses). The same is applicable to
every true Christian. For example I, who is a Bible believing Christian do not believe that NT cancelled the Tanach. All commandments listed in the first 5 books of the Tanach are still vaild but by death (which we believe by faith) we Christians get around the law.
As Chaim Fan pointed out observing the law is not mandatory for salvation.
Even some Christian Churches display Jewish symbols and Pastor preach on specific themes related to Jewish festivals. The best way to distinguish a main stream Church and a Messianic congregation is by the title displayed on the sign boards. Messianics do not use the term Christian in their labels.
the oral law existed prior to the mishna being written.
and pharisees to which he often referred to, did keep the torah - oral and written.
(Or rather, keep the oral, and the written touches implicitly or explicitly, on everything in it , so really the whole written, like eating matza, and capital punishment- which requires a sanhedrin.. is kept too)
When it says to the jews I am as a jew.. To those under the law I become under the law..
I don't think he is just referring to saducees(the karaites of their time - they just kept the written).
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<snip>
Maybe some diseased Palestinian deleted it.
are you referring to a moderator?
BTW, did you learn to curse me from listening to Chaim curse Hitler?
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<snip>
Maybe some diseased Palestinian deleted it.
are you referring to a moderator?
Yes.
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<snip>
Maybe some diseased Palestinian deleted it.
did you learn to curse me from listening to Chaim curse Hitler?
I think it was Al Sharpton.
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<snip>
Maybe some diseased Palestinian deleted it.
did you learn to curse me from listening to Chaim curse Hitler?
I think it was Al Sharpton.
him too then..
But you would know that it is most commonly used after people such as Hitler ,Arafat, Haj Amin al Husseini..
Are you aware of that?
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<snip>
Maybe some diseased Palestinian deleted it.
did you learn to curse me from listening to Chaim curse Hitler?
I think it was Al Sharpton.
him too then..
But you would know that it is most commonly used after people such as Hitler ,Arafat, Haj Amin al Husseini..
Are you aware of that?
Yes. It is like insulting a person's Mother.
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Yes, Oral law existed before the codification of Mishna. NT calls Oral law as "the tradition of the elders". Jesus and His disciples recongnized the existence of Oral traditions but did not believe that it was divinely inspired. According to NT Sadducees did not believe in resurrection and angels. Sadducees also followed only the first 5 books. However Pharisees believed in the entire Tanach plus the Oral traditions. Jesus, His followers and Paul recognized only the Tanach as the Divinely inspired scriptures like the Karites.
Well, I do not want to post anymore in this thread. That will unnecessarilly cause division among us. Let us focus on Zionism and on defeating BHO.
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<snip>
Maybe some diseased Palestinian deleted it.
did you learn to curse me from listening to Chaim curse Hitler?
I think it was Al Sharpton.
him too then..
But you would know that it is most commonly used after people such as Hitler ,Arafat, Haj Amin al Husseini..
Are you aware of that?
Yes. It is like insulting a person's Mother.
Don't play dumb..
You are not so stupid that you think saying that curse is like saying
Hitler's mother was stupid e.t.c.
You are not so stupid that you think when Jews curse Hitler or Arafat, they are saying something that is "like insulting a person's mother".
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you can find plenty of pictures on google and articles about that
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<snip>
Maybe some diseased Palestinian deleted it.
did you learn to curse me from listening to Chaim curse Hitler?
I think it was Al Sharpton.
him too then..
But you would know that it is most commonly used after people such as Hitler ,Arafat, Haj Amin al Husseini..
Are you aware of that?
Yes. It is like insulting a person's Mother.
Don't play dumb..
You are not so stupid that you think saying that curse is like saying
Hitler's mother was stupid e.t.c.
You are not so stupid that you think when Jews curse Hitler or Arafat, they are saying something that is "like insulting a person's mother".
Get bent.
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<snip>
Maybe some diseased Palestinian deleted it.
did you learn to curse me from listening to Chaim curse Hitler?
I think it was Al Sharpton.
him too then..
But you would know that it is most commonly used after people such as Hitler ,Arafat, Haj Amin al Husseini..
Are you aware of that?
Yes. It is like insulting a person's Mother.
Don't play dumb..
You are not so stupid that you think saying that curse is like saying
Hitler's mother was stupid e.t.c.
You are not so stupid that you think when Jews curse Hitler or Arafat, they are saying something that is "like insulting a person's mother".
Get bent.
Are you seriously so stupid that you think when Jews curse Hitler or Arafat, they are saying something that is "like insulting a person's mother". ?
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OK, this is getting absurd. You ladies take this offline.
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OK, this is getting absurd. You ladies take this offline.
Ladies?
That's something, coming from someone who doesn't have the guts to meet with fellow JTF supporters.
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Maybe some diseased Palestinian deleted it.
I deleted it. Let's be careful about insulting the moderators and the other administration on JTF. They deserve more respect than that for volunteering their time and all the work they do as charity to JTF. Thankfully it was me and it can end here.
We do not curse Jewish members of the forum (Chaim has repeated this over and over again) and we do not call their mothers a whore. This makes us look terrible and is a huge sin.
I will not allow the Jews on this forum to have the curses said to them. Those curses are NOT to be taken lightly and are reserved only for the most evil of all mankind.
This thread is locked.