JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: vikram on July 22, 2008, 02:45:47 PM
-
Hi my Jewish friends. I agree with a lot of what I read on here, but I used to visit some "White Nationalist" websites like StørmFrønt that are very anti-Jewish and I want to know what you think of them. I know you agree with some of their ideas (i.e. against race mixing of Jews with other groups, just like they're against race mixing of Whites with other groups) but at the same time you despise their anti-Semitism (I do too). So on what other issues do you agree and disagree? What do you think about immigration, for example? Obviously, everyone in America is the descendent of immigrants, some more recent than others (Mostly WASPs first, then other whites, various other groups, and of course my parents who are from India). And what do you think about immigration to Israel? These are some of the things I want to know, although if you have any other ideas of what I should know then please tell me. Thanks!
Vikram
-
I'm not sure if there is a such thing as Jewish nationalism, perhaps right wing ideaology that adheres to a Jewish state.
America was founded by whites for whites, Chinese were brought in as cheap labor for the railroads/coal mines, blacks were used for the agriculture (which was a big mistake in my opinion), and picking the cotton.
There is also evidence of Vikings having been here long before the native Americans.
Since I consider the majority of Jews white, I still seek a majority white America.
-
I'm not sure if there is a such thing as Jewish nationalism, perhaps right wing ideaology that adheres to a Jewish state.
America was founded by whites for whites, Chinese were brought in as cheap labor for the railroads/coal mines, blacks were used for the agriculture (which was a big mistake in my opinion), and picking the cotton.
There is also evidence of Vikings having been here long before the native Americans.
Since I consider the majority of Jews white, I still seek a majority white America.
Agreed on the blacks for agriculture...what were they thinking? (or were they?)
As far as a majority white America, I'm all for it, although I did not realize that Vikings came here before Native Americans.
Then what do you think of people who say Jews are not white? On white nationalist boards they are always saying Jews are a mix of Middle Eastern Semitic and White, and therefore they are not pure whites and don't belong in America or any White countries. Also they are always pointing out how Jewish liberals are always pro-immigration and undermining White unity. What do you think?
Vikram
-
First off, there are plenty of ethno-masochistic white liberals. So it's not just liberal Jews.
Also, the people at StørmFrønt dislike blacks and people of other races because of the color of their skin. Or they say that other races have lower IQ's than whites. Chaim Ben Pesach doesn't believe in any of that. He, and most of us believe that black and Hispanic cultures are by and large evil in that they don't value education or a solid family, and instead promote illegitimacy, delinquency and violence.
-
First off, there are plenty of ethno-masochistic white liberals. So it's not just liberal Jews.
Also, the people at StørmFrønt dislike blacks and people of other races because of the color of their skin. Or they say that other races have lower IQ's than whites. Chaim Ben Pesach doesn't believe in any of that. He, and most of us believe that black and Hispanic cultures are by and large evil in that they don't value education or a solid family, and instead promote illegitimacy, delinquency and violence.
Yes this is a good answer. We are as righteous as we try to be.
-
Everyone is welcome in America (and JTF) if they are righteous, good people. Chaim has said he would not want to see Indians and Asians sent away from America as they work towards a better country. It all depends on culture. Black America has some righteous people like Alan Keyes but the culture is, or at least has become, evil. Certain Immigration is bad for America and the white majority should not be broken as being a minority is never a good situation to be in. Muslims immigration should be outlawed and all Americans should be required to take a loyaty oath or lose thier citizenship.
-
Also, there are quite a few white nationalists who support Obama because they believe he'll be bad for the Jews.
-
I dont think we share anything with the Nazi racists. I have nothing against any race of people. My problem stems from accepted cultures withing races. I strongly despise the african american culture of gangsterism in the inner cities and the glorification of it in the media. But I also appreciate other forms of music from African Americans including Blues, Rock, and Reggae. Several members of my congregation are african americans and in my eyes they are righteous Jews. I also live amongst several hard working latinos and I have no problem as long as they come here legally. To me this is not an issue of race, but of culture. Jews come from all kinds of ethnic backgrounds. There are African Jews, Chinese Jews, European Jews, Russian Jews, etc. etc.
muman613
-
Also, there are quite a few white nationalists who support Obama because they believe he'll be bad for the Jews.
Yes I am not surprised. In my country, they do this regulary.
They beg for money and bank accounts from Achmadinedschads Iran.
To hurt the Jews they will sacrifice themselves and their families to the quranimals. This is the ultimative self-hate.
-
I dont consider Jews to be white. Traditional Jews are believed to be descended from Semitic races which are most certainly not white like caucasians {whitey ;)} .
-
Let's clarify a few things first:
"white" nationalism is nationalism for those with the genetics of white skin
Jewish "nationalism" describes Jews as a religion to stick with Jews.
Genetics is something one is born with. To say one is genetically "inferior" or "superior" because of skin color, eye color, hair color is true racism. There is no superiority in any genetics. Only physical attraction and nothing more.
Judaism is NOT a race. It is a religion/culture. Someone who is truely Jewish has a Jewish mother and can be any genetics..Tall, short, skinny, fat, blue eye, brown eye, black hair, blonde hair, negroid, caucesoid, mongoloid...A Jew is a Jew. And if someone truely wants to convert and do it properly, it doesn't matter what background they came from racially or genetically or even culturally.
So to sum it up. StørmFrønt is a racist white nationalistic nazi KKK movement. THey are racists of the worst kind..Just as bad as the Black Panthers et al.
As far as Jews marrying Jews...that's what our religion prescribes. It's not for genetic reasons..it's for religious reasons and cultural reasons.
If a white person wants to marry another white person of the same religion and doesn't prefer a black person, it doesn't make him a racist. It might simply mean that he's attracted to white skin and not black skin...big deal. But if someone says, "I won't marry a black person because they are racially inferior," then that's racism. If someone says, "i don't want to marry a black person because I disagree with African/Black American culture," that's not racism.
JTF is a movement which judges solely on what it considers evil behavior, evil culture, evil religion, and evil ideology irregardless of the race of the person.
-
I dont consider Jews to be white. Traditional Jews are believed to be descended from Semitic races which are most certainly not white like caucasians {whitey Wink}
I don't know about that Muman613. On my mother's side of the family, I have quite a few fair haired, blue eyed relatives.
-
Well not in my family... not a single blonde in the bunch {well maybe if they dyed their hair}. But as I have said in other threads, Jews come from all different backgrounds and there is no single characteristic which defines us. True, there are blondes , redheads, blue eyes, etc. But I have always noticed that my skin is not quite WHITE like caucasians.
muman613
-
I'm not sure if there is a such thing as Jewish nationalism, perhaps right wing ideaology that adheres to a Jewish state.
America was founded by whites for whites, Chinese were brought in as cheap labor for the railroads/coal mines, blacks were used for the agriculture (which was a big mistake in my opinion), and picking the cotton.
There is also evidence of Vikings having been here long before the native Americans.
Since I consider the majority of Jews white, I still seek a majority white America.
Agreed on the blacks for agriculture...what were they thinking? (or were they?)
As far as a majority white America, I'm all for it, although I did not realize that Vikings came here before Native Americans.
Then what do you think of people who say Jews are not white? On white nationalist boards they are always saying Jews are a mix of Middle Eastern Semitic and White, and therefore they are not pure whites and don't belong in America or any White countries. Also they are always pointing out how Jewish liberals are always pro-immigration and undermining White unity. What do you think?
Vikram
I am against a White majority in American because White people can choose to follow degenerate cultures and ideologies. Rather, I believe in an American filled with righteous people white or nonwhite!!!!!
White means nothing to me..Black means nothing to me. Purple means nothing to me. Tan means nothing to me. Righteous means A LOT to me...and it should mean a lot to you irregardless of the color. Righteous cultures and ideologies shoudl mean a lot even if it comes from a black person..and you should hate evil white people as much as you should hate evil black people...
So enough of this race baiting garbage..we dont' care for superior races and white groupings or black groupings! We want righteous people to stick together against evil people.
-
Okay, I understand now...thanks for the responses :)
Vikram
-
There is a tiny fringe minority of Jews, probably less then .005% (one-half of one percent), i.e. the two main splinter organizations (Voice of Judea and Revava) and some of the lunatic cults of Judaism (i.e. Satmarism) who are supremacist [censored]. They hate all Gentiles and all Jews who do not subscribe to their own elitist, exclusivist mentalities. If I am not mistaken, the Satmar and their offshoots the NK actually define all non-Satmar/NK Jews as goyim.
I even understand that a few Satmar have been known to indulge in immorality with shiksas and then justify it by claiming that since the women were goy, their indiscretions do not count since they were not actually involved with a human being.
Like all so-called "supremacists", such as the "white nationalists" who are voting for Obama in order to stick it to Jews (who, by and large, are white), these fools are complete hypocrites. They love to rattle the saber and beat their chests with idle talk of saving Israel, but they are really only out to try to destroy real Jewish nationalists they are jealous of (i.e. HaYamin HaAmiti). They hate JTF and Chaim more than they hate Arabs and Nazis, and as we all know, one of their organizations actually befriended and worked with known Nazis for a while. >:( ::)
-
Well not in my family... not a single blonde in the bunch {well maybe if they dyed their hair}. But as I have said in other threads, Jews come from all different backgrounds and there is no single characteristic which defines us. True, there are blondes , redheads, blue eyes, etc. But I have always noticed that my skin is not quite WHITE like caucasians.
muman613
"Olive Skin" is still white, much like southern italians, morrocans, algerians, some romanians and serbs have a darker complexian and greeks, this is all mediterranean background. It's still Caucasoid but darker complexion. Look at the Lebanese and Syrians for example, they look white. Arabs colonized the area and bastardized the races.
-
I dont consider Jews to be white. Traditional Jews are believed to be descended from Semitic races which are most certainly not white like caucasians {whitey ;)} .
And do tell me--what is this supposed to mean?
-
There is a tiny fringe minority of Jews, probably less then .005% (one-half of one percent), i.e. the two main splinter organizations (Voice of Judea and Revava) and some of the lunatic cults of Judaism (i.e. Satmarism) who are supremacist schmucks. They hate all Gentiles and all Jews who do not subscribe to their own elitist, exclusivist mentalities. If I am not mistaken, the Satmar and their offshoots the NK actually define all non-Satmar/NK Jews as goyim.
I even understand that a few Satmar have been known to indulge in immorality with shiksas and then justify it by claiming that since the women were goy, their indiscretions do not count since they were not actually involved with a human being.
Like all so-called "supremacists", such as the "white nationalists" who are voting for Obama in order to stick it to Jews (who, by and large, are white), these fools are complete hypocrites. They love to rattle the saber and beat their chests with idle talk of saving Israel, but they are really only out to try to destroy real Jewish nationalists they are jealous of (i.e. HaYamin HaAmiti). They hate JTF and Chaim more than they hate Arabs and Nazis, and as we all know, one of their organizations actually befriended and worked with known Nazis for a while. >:( ::)
Please nobody make judgements agains't Jews from something that this goy rants. (and what im saying is not inappropriate)
(End of discussion)!
-
Hi my Jewish friends. I agree with a lot of what I read on here, but I used to visit some "White Nationalist" websites like StørmFrønt that are very anti-Jewish and I want to know what you think of them. I know you agree with some of their ideas (i.e. against race mixing of Jews with other groups, just like they're against race mixing of Whites with other groups) but at the same time you despise their anti-Semitism (I do too). So on what other issues do you agree and disagree? What do you think about immigration, for example? Obviously, everyone in America is the descendent of immigrants, some more recent than others (Mostly WASPs first, then other whites, various other groups, and of course my parents who are from India). And what do you think about immigration to Israel? These are some of the things I want to know, although if you have any other ideas of what I should know then please tell me. Thanks!
Vikram
Firstly.. Im glad to see you here. Anyone who has a small trace of goodness and patriotism can be rescued from so-called white nationalism (IE German National Socialism)
American Naitonalism IS NOT white nationalism. The two are NOT THE SAME. American Nationalism can also include Hispanics who have no allegiance to their hispanic country of origin, and the same goes for Asians. Most importanly... American Nationalism can even include American Indians as they were here before the founding fathers and their culture has contributed to our culture.
This is a far cry from BLACK nationalism which hates America and hates Judeo-Christianity... and WHITE naitonalism which unfortunately is still modeled after German National Socialism which is ANTI-american at its core.. and HATES Judeo-Christianity... and wishes to replace it with German Paganism.
So WHITE NATIONALISM in its current form, IS ANTI-American and ANTI-American Nationalism. I can prove this to you beyond a reasonable doubt... but it should be pretty obvious.
-
Let's clarify a few things first:
"white" nationalism is nationalism for those with the genetics of white skin
Jewish "nationalism" describes Jews as a religion to stick with Jews.
Genetics is something one is born with. To say one is genetically "inferior" or "superior" because of skin color, eye color, hair color is true racism. There is no superiority in any genetics. Only physical attraction and nothing more.
Judaism is NOT a race. It is a religion/culture. Someone who is truely Jewish has a Jewish mother and can be any genetics..Tall, short, skinny, fat, blue eye, brown eye, black hair, blonde hair, negroid, caucesoid, mongoloid...A Jew is a Jew. And if someone truely wants to convert and do it properly, it doesn't matter what background they came from racially or genetically or even culturally.
So to sum it up. StørmFrønt is a racist white nationalistic nazi KKK movement. THey are racists of the worst kind..Just as bad as the Black Panthers et al.
As far as Jews marrying Jews...that's what our religion prescribes. It's not for genetic reasons..it's for religious reasons and cultural reasons.
If a white person wants to marry another white person of the same religion and doesn't prefer a black person, it doesn't make him a racist. It might simply mean that he's attracted to white skin and not black skin...big deal. But if someone says, "I won't marry a black person because they are racially inferior," then that's racism. If someone says, "i don't want to marry a black person because I disagree with African/Black American culture," that's not racism.
JTF is a movement which judges solely on what it considers evil behavior, evil culture, evil religion, and evil ideology irregardless of the race of the person.
Thank you Dr. Dan.
-
Let's clarify a few things first:
"white" nationalism is nationalism for those with the genetics of white skin
Jewish "nationalism" describes Jews as a religion to stick with Jews.
Genetics is something one is born with. To say one is genetically "inferior" or "superior" because of skin color, eye color, hair color is true racism. There is no superiority in any genetics. Only physical attraction and nothing more.
Judaism is NOT a race. It is a religion/culture. Someone who is truely Jewish has a Jewish mother and can be any genetics..Tall, short, skinny, fat, blue eye, brown eye, black hair, blonde hair, negroid, caucesoid, mongoloid...A Jew is a Jew. And if someone truely wants to convert and do it properly, it doesn't matter what background they came from racially or genetically or even culturally.
So to sum it up. StørmFrønt is a racist white nationalistic nazi KKK movement. THey are racists of the worst kind..Just as bad as the Black Panthers et al.
As far as Jews marrying Jews...that's what our religion prescribes. It's not for genetic reasons..it's for religious reasons and cultural reasons.
If a white person wants to marry another white person of the same religion and doesn't prefer a black person, it doesn't make him a racist. It might simply mean that he's attracted to white skin and not black skin...big deal. But if someone says, "I won't marry a black person because they are racially inferior," then that's racism. If someone says, "i don't want to marry a black person because I disagree with African/Black American culture," that's not racism.
JTF is a movement which judges solely on what it considers evil behavior, evil culture, evil religion, and evil ideology irregardless of the race of the person.
Thank you Dr. Dan.
really I can't stand the lunecy of some people...what does white nationalism have anything to do wtih JTF? This is how we got people like Tina and Kelly amongst many others on this forum. We have nothing to do with so called white nationalism..it is an heinous as black nationalism and yellow nationalism and tan nationalism...No decent person a part of JTF should have any sympathies with those freaks on any of those race nationalistic camps...
-
Please nobody make judgements agains't Jews from something that this goy rants. (and what im saying is not inappropriate)
(End of discussion)!
Gee... I wonder why you would be so personally offended by what I wrote. Hmmm... ::) ;D
-
Allies!!! O0
-
cf didn't you promise to take a break from the forum?
-
Breakytime done! ;)
-
I'm not sure if there is a such thing as Jewish nationalism, perhaps right wing ideaology that adheres to a Jewish state.
America was founded by whites for whites, Chinese were brought in as cheap labor for the railroads/coal mines, blacks were used for the agriculture (which was a big mistake in my opinion), and picking the cotton.
There is also evidence of Vikings having been here long before the native Americans.
Since I consider the majority of Jews white, I still seek a majority white America.
Agreed on the blacks for agriculture...what were they thinking? (or were they?)
As far as a majority white America, I'm all for it, although I did not realize that Vikings came here before Native Americans.
Then what do you think of people who say Jews are not white? On white nationalist boards they are always saying Jews are a mix of Middle Eastern Semitic and White, and therefore they are not pure whites and don't belong in America or any White countries. Also they are always pointing out how Jewish liberals are always pro-immigration and undermining White unity. What do you think?
Vikram
I am against a White majority in American because White people can choose to follow degenerate cultures and ideologies. Rather, I believe in an American filled with righteous people white or nonwhite!!!!!
White means nothing to me..Black means nothing to me. Purple means nothing to me. Tan means nothing to me. Righteous means A LOT to me...and it should mean a lot to you irregardless of the color. Righteous cultures and ideologies shoudl mean a lot even if it comes from a black person..and you should hate evil white people as much as you should hate evil black people...
So enough of this race baiting garbage..we dont' care for superior races and white groupings or black groupings! We want righteous people to stick together against evil people.
I completely agree with Dr. Dan, well said. O0
I'm not attracted to Africans as far as beauty and looks. However, most importantly is their evil culture why I would never want my children to be raised in such an evil culture, I think blacks are perfectly capable of being brilliant, genius and inventing new things, there is no genetic barrier, but their evil culture has prevented them from this.
"I won't marry a black person because they are racially inferior," - That is just pure racism and hatred. Sometimes bad evil cultural experiences with these blacks can make some people say such a terrible thing like the amount of black on white crime and blacks raping whites, because they aren't around righteous blacks.
-
There is a tiny fringe minority of Jews, probably less then .005% (one-half of one percent), i.e. the two main splinter organizations (Voice of Judea and Revava) and some of the lunatic cults of Judaism (i.e. Satmarism) who are supremacist schmucks. They hate all Gentiles and all Jews who do not subscribe to their own elitist, exclusivist mentalities. If I am not mistaken, the Satmar and their offshoots the NK actually define all non-Satmar/NK Jews as goyim.
I even understand that a few Satmar have been known to indulge in immorality with shiksas and then justify it by claiming that since the women were goy, their indiscretions do not count since they were not actually involved with a human being.
Like all so-called "supremacists", such as the "white nationalists" who are voting for Obama in order to stick it to Jews (who, by and large, are white), these fools are complete hypocrites. They love to rattle the saber and beat their chests with idle talk of saving Israel, but they are really only out to try to destroy real Jewish nationalists they are jealous of (i.e. HaYamin HaAmiti). They hate JTF and Chaim more than they hate Arabs and Nazis, and as we all know, one of their organizations actually befriended and worked with known Nazis for a while. >:( ::)
I just read the story of Gitty Grunwald in the July 21 issue of New York Magazine who escaped from life as a Satmar wife
and lost her daughter in the process. That story horrified me as do many of the practices of Hasidic Jews. But this one
in particular made me feel ashamed to share a religion with these people.
Frankly, reading about the Satmar Jews didn't seem all that much different from the Muslim fundamentalists.
-
Those pigs (the Satmar) don't deserve to be called Jews. They don't consider non-Satmar Jews to be Jewish, so why should we extend them the same courtesy?
And you are right--they are very much like Islamic fundamentalists. They certainly support Muslims worldwide.
-
There is a tiny fringe minority of Jews, probably less then .005% (one-half of one percent), i.e. the two main splinter organizations (Voice of Judea and Revava) and some of the lunatic cults of Judaism (i.e. Satmarism) who are supremacist schmucks. They hate all Gentiles and all Jews who do not subscribe to their own elitist, exclusivist mentalities. If I am not mistaken, the Satmar and their offshoots the NK actually define all non-Satmar/NK Jews as goyim.
I even understand that a few Satmar have been known to indulge in immorality with shiksas and then justify it by claiming that since the women were goy, their indiscretions do not count since they were not actually involved with a human being.
There's really no reason to say stuff like this. This sounds like wild speculation, and I doubt you could (which you likely won't try) find any actual proof of this, anywhere in satmar thought or writings, etc. If there are people in satmar doing that, they are the rebels of satmar. There are rebels in every group. I don't think it's a good idea to go around saying certain groups of Jews are "jewish supremacists." I don't think it's true.
-
You didn't actually deny what I said. It is well-known that Satmar view Zionist Jews--and especially former Satmars who have left the cult--as goyim. They regularly curse Zionists of all kinds, especially Lubavitchim.
Yes, this is a microscopic fringe cult of Judaism, which lies about its numbers (likely 30,000 at most worldwide), but they do exist and are a pernicious influence on all around them.
-
You didn't actually deny what I said. It is well-known that Satmar view Zionist Jews--and especially former Satmars who have left the cult--as goyim.
As goyim??? Or as Jews not following Judaism?
-
Well not in my family... not a single blonde in the bunch {well maybe if they dyed their hair}. But as I have said in other threads, Jews come from all different backgrounds and there is no single characteristic which defines us. True, there are blondes , redheads, blue eyes, etc. But I have always noticed that my skin is not quite WHITE like caucasians.
muman613
"Olive Skin" is still white, much like southern italians, morrocans, algerians, some romanians and serbs have a darker complexian and greeks, this is all mediterranean background. It's still Caucasoid but darker complexion. Look at the Lebanese and Syrians for example, they look white. Arabs colonized the area and bastardized the races.
lebanese and syrians do not consider themselves "white." Neither do Arabs.
-
There is a tiny fringe minority of Jews, probably less then .005% (one-half of one percent), i.e. the two main splinter organizations (Voice of Judea and Revava) and some of the lunatic cults of Judaism (i.e. Satmarism) who are supremacist schmucks. They hate all Gentiles and all Jews who do not subscribe to their own elitist, exclusivist mentalities. If I am not mistaken, the Satmar and their offshoots the NK actually define all non-Satmar/NK Jews as goyim.
I even understand that a few Satmar have been known to indulge in immorality with shiksas and then justify it by claiming that since the women were goy, their indiscretions do not count since they were not actually involved with a human being.
Like all so-called "supremacists", such as the "white nationalists" who are voting for Obama in order to stick it to Jews (who, by and large, are white), these fools are complete hypocrites. They love to rattle the saber and beat their chests with idle talk of saving Israel, but they are really only out to try to destroy real Jewish nationalists they are jealous of (i.e. HaYamin HaAmiti). They hate JTF and Chaim more than they hate Arabs and Nazis, and as we all know, one of their organizations actually befriended and worked with known Nazis for a while. >:( ::)
I just read the story of Gitty Grunwald in the July 21 issue of New York Magazine who escaped from life as a Satmar wife
and lost her daughter in the process. That story horrified me as do many of the practices of Hasidic Jews. But this one
in particular made me feel ashamed to share a religion with these people.
Frankly, reading about the Satmar Jews didn't seem all that much different from the Muslim fundamentalists.
There's more to that story than meets the eye.
I also find it troubling that the knee-jerk reaction nowadays is automatically to assume the father is a criminal and the mother deserves custody any time parents split up. T his is atrocious.
Fact: The woman was getting high with hasidic rebels in the woods. (and I won't suggest about her other behaviors. But the getting stoned part was documented fact, in the article, And in the drug test!!!). How can you possibly think the woman deserves custody? SHe is not fit to be a mother if she is running off to the woods to get high and act out against her upbringing! That is childish and irresponsible. The author of the article sympathizes on her because 1 he probably has a crush on her and 2 he is anti orthodoxy and another knee jerk liberal who automatically assumes the mother is just in every case, so the article takes that form and you get only her side of the story, which seems disturbing and twisted even when its biased towards her!
-
You didn't actually deny what I said.
Actually I did. "I don't think it's true."
-
I don't follow Satmarism, but to take the 'gitty grunwald' case as a condemnation of all satmars is twisted. Just as it is to take some criminal satmars to represent all of them. I don't think that's right.
-
I'm a racial separatist, and I also believe to a degree genetics and culture are linked, but that doesn't reflect the official views of JTF. They are just my own views. Even IF someone had a genetic tendency to be a certain way, I think God gives every person the ability to choose good or evil, to choose to be righteous or to choose not to be righteous.
-
Well not in my family... not a single blonde in the bunch {well maybe if they dyed their hair}. But as I have said in other threads, Jews come from all different backgrounds and there is no single characteristic which defines us. True, there are blondes , redheads, blue eyes, etc. But I have always noticed that my skin is not quite WHITE like caucasians.
muman613
"Olive Skin" is still white, much like southern italians, morrocans, algerians, some romanians and serbs have a darker complexian and greeks, this is all mediterranean background. It's still Caucasoid but darker complexion. Look at the Lebanese and Syrians for example, they look white. Arabs colonized the area and bastardized the races.
lebanese and syrians do not consider themselves "white." Neither do Arabs.
Arabs aren't white, but lebanese aren't Arab, their like a mixture of a few different thinks, some greek blood. My bosses wife is Lebanese and considers herself white, shes Christian.
-
It may not be against the law to spew vicious hate against fellow Jews and call them goyim if they believe in a Jewish State, but it is certainly evil. That's all I need to know. I don't care if individual Satmar beat their wives or torture puppies or whatever. What they believe and do is bad enough.
I don't know anything about Gitty Grunwald, but I can imagine that a lifetime of growing up in such a sick cult can cause mental illness and highly destructive lifestyle choices. I too would probably feel like getting high in the woods if I had to endure that madness day-in, day-out forever.
-
There is a tiny fringe minority of Jews, probably less then .005% (one-half of one percent), i.e. the two main splinter organizations (Voice of Judea and Revava) and some of the lunatic cults of Judaism (i.e. Satmarism) who are supremacist schmucks. They hate all Gentiles and all Jews who do not subscribe to their own elitist, exclusivist mentalities. If I am not mistaken, the Satmar and their offshoots the NK actually define all non-Satmar/NK Jews as goyim.
I even understand that a few Satmar have been known to indulge in immorality with shiksas and then justify it by claiming that since the women were goy, their indiscretions do not count since they were not actually involved with a human being.
Like all so-called "supremacists", such as the "white nationalists" who are voting for Obama in order to stick it to Jews (who, by and large, are white), these fools are complete hypocrites. They love to rattle the saber and beat their chests with idle talk of saving Israel, but they are really only out to try to destroy real Jewish nationalists they are jealous of (i.e. HaYamin HaAmiti). They hate JTF and Chaim more than they hate Arabs and Nazis, and as we all know, one of their organizations actually befriended and worked with known Nazis for a while. >:( ::)
I just read the story of Gitty Grunwald in the July 21 issue of New York Magazine who escaped from life as a Satmar wife
and lost her daughter in the process. That story horrified me as do many of the practices of Hasidic Jews. But this one
in particular made me feel ashamed to share a religion with these people.
Frankly, reading about the Satmar Jews didn't seem all that much different from the Muslim fundamentalists.
There's more to that story than meets the eye.
I also find it troubling that the knee-jerk reaction nowadays is automatically to assume the father is a criminal and the mother deserves custody any time parents split up. T his is atrocious.
Fact: The woman was getting high with hasidic rebels in the woods. (and I won't suggest about her other behaviors. But the getting stoned part was documented fact, in the article, And in the drug test!!!). How can you possibly think the woman deserves custody? SHe is not fit to be a mother if she is running off to the woods to get high and act out against her upbringing! That is childish and irresponsible. The author of the article sympathizes on her because 1 he probably has a crush on her and 2 he is anti orthodoxy and another knee jerk liberal who automatically assumes the mother is just in every case, so the article takes that form and you get only her side of the story, which seems disturbing and twisted even when its biased towards her!
How do you know she was getting high with rebels in the woods? You got proof? A drug test that wouldn't pass muster in any court of law? Why is she an unfit mother
just because she chose to reject the Satmar life where she is nothing more than a baby making machine with little freedom to do what she wants. Most US courts do grant custody to the mother as they should. She has a job, an apartment, and is not a junkie. She should get custody. To say the writer had the hots for her is childish.
I thought I've read a lot of criticism from time to time on this site re: the Satmars. Aren't they the ones who reject Israel as the Jewish state? Aren't they just like
the Muslims (minus the killing) in this opinion?
-
Well not in my family... not a single blonde in the bunch {well maybe if they dyed their hair}. But as I have said in other threads, Jews come from all different backgrounds and there is no single characteristic which defines us. True, there are blondes , redheads, blue eyes, etc. But I have always noticed that my skin is not quite WHITE like caucasians.
muman613
"Olive Skin" is still white, much like southern italians, morrocans, algerians, some romanians and serbs have a darker complexian and greeks, this is all mediterranean background. It's still Caucasoid but darker complexion. Look at the Lebanese and Syrians for example, they look white. Arabs colonized the area and bastardized the races.
lebanese and syrians do not consider themselves "white." Neither do Arabs.
Arabs aren't white, but lebanese aren't Arab, their like a mixture of a few different thinks, some greek blood. My bosses wife is Lebanese and considers herself white, shes Christian.
I don't really find the skin color issue relevant to anything, but all I'll say is that whether lebanese are cannanite or phoenician or arab or a mixture of all of these, whatever their skin color is today , for the vast majority of them, they are not "white." I don't really care if they are or they aren't. ANd they can consider themselves whatever they want, but I'm just saying that a middle eastern looking person looks middle eastern, not European. "Whites" are associated with the european look. Blacks african. And Asians look asian, etc etc. The bottom line is if muman traces himself to an ashkenazi or eastern european or sephardi or any Jewish population in the world, he doesn't have to consider himself "white" especially considering originally we were a semitic people who branched out to various locations throughout the world. And often times there WAS a distinction in skin color between east european surrounding non-Jews compared to the Jews. Unfortunately this motivated nazi propaganda against Jews leading to the shoah, but simply by looking, one could see that in general Jews had a sort of different skin color from the surrounding "whites." But that's because we originally were semitic!
I once read that Begin said two of the Ashkenazi Jews in the Irgun were darker skinned than any of the Sephardim in the Irgun. It's an oversimplification to say that ashkenazi jews are "white" and sephardi Jews are "middle eastern" or what have you. But this is mostly an irrelevant issue.
-
Yes, Horselady, you are absolutely right. They are like Muslims without the killing. They teach that Zionist Jews are goyim, and at times even hold rallies in support of Muslims.
-
They teach that Zionist Jews are goyim,
You've now claimed this 100 times.
I challenge you to prove it. Quote something. A document . A source. The Satmar rebbe, Anybody.
If you are saying they believe zionism is not kosher, or that zionist Jews are doing something evil, ok I would think they do. But they can't just go around defining Jews as non-Jews, and no group does this!
-
I can't read Yiddish, so I can't translate the original documents. But it is common knowledge.
Here: http://kvetcher.net/2007/02/05/aish-hatorah-and-tinok-shenishbu/
why don’t you look into the great works of the Satmar Rebbe, where he describes secular jews in horrid terms. Since almost all secular Jews are Zionists, the Satmar Rebbe says you will burn in hell if you even pray for them.
Sure, just listen to the way Satmar kids refer to even Modern Orthodox teachers in Cheder. They call them Goyim. And they treat them like Goyim.
-
Change of subject--I don't buy all this racial hair-splitting. This is preposterous. There is no such thing as a Jewish race, but physically speaking, most Jews, at least in America, are white. "White" is purely a phenotypical (outside characteristics) term that says nothing about genetic makeup. Someone with fair skin and generally Caucasoid features is "white."
Now, pretty much all whites are Caucasoid, and the Semites (not that they really exist as a race anymore, but let's pretend that they do) are Caucasoid as well. Thus, Semites are Caucasians. Thus, muman613 is wrong.
However, there is no Jewish race, again. Jews pretty much look like whatever the majority population of their country of origin is, and while most Jews are white, there are also black Jews, Asiatic Jews, and mestizo (mixed European and indigenous Indian) Jews. This topic is getting pretty old.
-
I can't read Yiddish, so I can't translate the original documents. But it is common knowledge.
Here: http
why don’t you look into the great works of the Satmar Rebbe, where he describes secular jews in horrid terms. Since almost all secular Jews are Zionists, the Satmar Rebbe says you will burn in hell if you even pray for them.
Sure, just listen to the way Satmar kids refer to even Modern Orthodox teachers in Cheder. They call them Goyim. And they treat them like Goyim.
If you think this is a source to document your claim, it shows you really can't do proper research at all nor do you comprehend what this discussion is all about.
CF, this is an anonymous quote on a page of a guy who rants against orthodox judaism. Aside from the fact that posting a link to this site on jtf forum is completely inappropriate, as the site is trashing all haredim, it contains nothing about satmar beliefs!
-
I don't blame him. Obviously the only "orthodox Judaism" he has been exposed to are the Satmar/NK beasts. He clearly appears to be a Zionist, and he has some very real beefs with what the Satmar in particular do, and not just Judaism in general.
You should be wanting to help this guy see the light instead of condemning him. He has legitimate concerns, but doesn't know any better and goes too far.
-
Oh, and PS:
posting a link to this site on jtf forum is completely inappropriate, as the site is trashing all haredim
I don't see this site trashing Lubavitch Haredim. In fact, I almost never see cynical anti-religious Jews dissing the Chabadim.
-
I don't blame him. Obviously the only "orthodox Judaism" he has been exposed to are the Satmar/NK beasts. He clearly appears to be a Zionist, and he has some very real beefs with what the Satmar in particular do, and not just Judaism in general.
You should be wanting to help this guy see the light instead of condemning him. He has legitimate concerns, but doesn't know any better and goes too far.
CF, once again you have no idea what you are talking about. I can condemn someone who is part of an anti-circumcision lobby. That is my right. You are making statements knowing nothing about this.
Obviously the only "orthodox Judaism" he has been exposed to are the Satmar/NK
Says who? Have you read any of his site? I have news for you CF, Aish Hatorah, Ohr Sameach, NCSY and countless other things he condemns ARE NOT SATMAR and NOT NK! Not even close! So where does your statement come from other than ignorance and assumption? Take my word for it this is a hateful site. But even if it was reliable. You quoted an anonymous comment about satmar school kids! Do you not see the absurdity of presenting this as "evidence" ?
You should be wanting to help this guy see the light
I'm not a psychologist and I have never conversed with this person. I can't see how ascribing to me nefarious motives somehow contributes to this discussion. ????
He has legitimate concerns,
really, says who?
but doesn't know any better
really, says who?
and goes too far.
really, says who?
CF, you are simply not an authority on this issue because you are ignorant of what that site is even about (as shown by your labelling of it as "anti satmar" when its actually anti orthodox of all types), and I can't see how any of this supports your claim that the satmar belief is that zionists are really non Jews?
-
Oh, and PS:
posting a link to this site on jtf forum is completely inappropriate, as the site is trashing all haredim
I don't see this site trashing Lubavitch Haredim. In fact, I almost never see cynical anti-religious Jews dissing the Chabadim.
CF are you insane? The site is anti-haredi. That INCLUDES Lubavitch chassidim. They consider themselves haredim. Whether you can find a specific rant against Lubavitch or not. ANd I'm not sure why you think that if you can't find anything specifically citing Lubavitch (although I'm sure he finds time in his day to rant against them too, but won't bother searching for it) why this excuses the anti ncsy anti aish and anti-all-other-orthodox propaganda on the site. I'm not sure why you think it appropriate to link to on JTF. Probably ignorance.
-
Oh, and PS:
posting a link to this site on jtf forum is completely inappropriate, as the site is trashing all haredim
I don't see this site trashing Lubavitch Haredim. In fact, I almost never see cynical anti-religious Jews dissing the Chabadim.
Are you saying that all Jews other than Chabad should be condemned?
-
Oh, and PS:
posting a link to this site on jtf forum is completely inappropriate, as the site is trashing all haredim
I don't see this site trashing Lubavitch Haredim. In fact, I almost never see cynical anti-religious Jews dissing the Chabadim.
CF are you insane? The site is anti-haredi. That INCLUDES Lubavitch chassidim. They consider themselves haredim. Whether you can find a specific rant against Lubavitch or not. ANd I'm not sure why you think that if you can't find anything specifically citing Lubavitch (although I'm sure he finds time in his day to rant against them too, but won't bother searching for it) why this excuses the anti ncsy anti aish and anti-all-other-orthodox propaganda on the site. I'm not sure why you think it appropriate to link to on JTF. Probably ignorance.
Did you listen to what Chaim told me on this week's Ask JTF?
He very clearly said that we shouldn't be looking to condemn fellow Jews who are mistaken, but should try to look for the good in them and show them the way. There is a big difference between this guy, who has very real beefs with the behavior of some who call themselves Orthodox Jews, and the Satmar, who outright declare that everybody who disagrees with their religious cult should die and go to hell. I don't see this fellow who you despise preaching the destruction of the state of Israel or defending Muslims.
I happen to think that this guy is right, in terms of the essence of what he believes and teaches, and simply hasn't had a lot of exposure to sincere, genuine Orthodox Jews. I doubt very much that he does attack Lubavitch, and I am sure that if he did meet them, he would be won over completely by their lifestyle and character witness regardless of whether he felt that the Lubavitch rebbe is the messiah. For you to just keep flaming him for no other reason than that he is critical of the hypocrisy of many Haredim is Lashon Hara. I feel bad for him and want to correct him, not condemn him.
-
Oh, and PS:
posting a link to this site on jtf forum is completely inappropriate, as the site is trashing all haredim
I don't see this site trashing Lubavitch Haredim. In fact, I almost never see cynical anti-religious Jews dissing the Chabadim.
CF are you insane? The site is anti-haredi. That INCLUDES Lubavitch chassidim. They consider themselves haredim. Whether you can find a specific rant against Lubavitch or not. ANd I'm not sure why you think that if you can't find anything specifically citing Lubavitch (although I'm sure he finds time in his day to rant against them too, but won't bother searching for it) why this excuses the anti ncsy anti aish and anti-all-other-orthodox propaganda on the site. I'm not sure why you think it appropriate to link to on JTF. Probably ignorance.
Did you listen to what Chaim told me on this week's Ask JTF?
He very clearly said that we shouldn't be looking to condemn fellow Jews who are mistaken, but should try to look for the good in them and show them the way. There is a big difference between this guy, who has very real beefs with the behavior of some who call themselves Orthodox Jews, and the Satmar, who outright declare that everybody who disagrees with their religious cult should die and go to hell. I don't see this fellow who you despise preaching the destruction of the state of Israel or defending Muslims.
I happen to think that this guy is right, in terms of the essence of what he believes and teaches, and simply hasn't had a lot of exposure to sincere, genuine Orthodox Jews. I doubt very much that he does attack Lubavitch, and I am sure that if he did meet them, he would be won over completely by their lifestyle and character witness regardless of whether he felt that the Lubavitch rebbe is the messiah. For you to just keep flaming him for no other reason than that he is critical of the hypocrisy of many Haredim is Lashon Hara. I feel bad for him and want to correct him, not condemn him.
CF. what are you talking about? Where do you get these ideas from? You are shooting from the hip, it's enough already. I'm not going to fight against speculation all day from someone (cf) who has no idea what he's talking about but has all sorts of preformed opinions on the subject.
I doubt very much that he does attack Lubavitch, and I am sure that if he did meet them, he would be won over completely by their lifestyle and character
What are you this guy's brother? His long-lost best friend from second grade? Where do you get these theories from? Why do you jump to defend this propagandist who you know nothing about, on a subject you know nothing about? I'm sick of your slander of religious Jews . It's enough already. You can't hide behind "But Lubavitch I don't condemn" and then use that as a cover for attacking everyone else that either isn't a secular Jew or isn't lubavitch.
-
I'm sick of your slander of religious Jews . It's enough already. You can't hide behind "But Lubavitch I don't condemn" and then use that as a cover for attacking everyone else that either isn't a secular Jew or isn't lubavitch.
I am equally sick of your slander of that webmaster, who happens to be 100% right about the Satmar. You don't know any more about him than I do. What I can discern is that this guy is a Zionist and doesn't tolerate hypocrisy. I said that it is sad that he assumes that all religious Jews are like Satmar and needs to be corrected. He most certainly is never going to see the error of that with the example of condemnations such as yours.
You speak Lashon Hara of mistaken Jews, such as the above, but refuse to criticize the Satmar, who teach that you are a goy who is going to hell because you believe in the state of Israel--what is up with that?
-
How many times am I going to repeat this, ncsy is not satmar. Or sameach is not satmar. Aish is not satmar. And you didn't even quote the webmaster. You quoted an anonymous commenter to his blog.
You're not going to "tolerate" my "Slander" of a guy who is an anti circumcision lobbyist? I could give to ____'s about what you think you can tolerate or not.
You don't know any more about him than I do.
Because you found this site tonight and you thought it was the end-all and be-all of Jewish opinion, that means I know nothing about it? What I can discern is that
Anyone has an ability to discern by reading. Why are you the monopoly on truth by what you read and discerned in the past couple of hours? or if you frequent that site habitually, why do you have a monopoly on what can be discerned from it? The previous sentence you said I don't know more than you do- what kind of statement is that? Absurd.
Don't accuse me of lashon hara because you have no idea what it is.
I'm sick of you trying to hijack Judaism and spin it against other members here. Enough with these guilt trips.
-
There is a tiny fringe minority of Jews, probably less then .005% (one-half of one percent), i.e. the two main splinter organizations (Voice of Judea and Revava) and some of the lunatic cults of Judaism (i.e. Satmarism) who are supremacist schmucks. They hate all Gentiles and all Jews who do not subscribe to their own elitist, exclusivist mentalities. If I am not mistaken, the Satmar and their offshoots the NK actually define all non-Satmar/NK Jews as goyim.
I even understand that a few Satmar have been known to indulge in immorality with shiksas and then justify it by claiming that since the women were goy, their indiscretions do not count since they were not actually involved with a human being.
Like all so-called "supremacists", such as the "white nationalists" who are voting for Obama in order to stick it to Jews (who, by and large, are white), these fools are complete hypocrites. They love to rattle the saber and beat their chests with idle talk of saving Israel, but they are really only out to try to destroy real Jewish nationalists they are jealous of (i.e. HaYamin HaAmiti). They hate JTF and Chaim more than they hate Arabs and Nazis, and as we all know, one of their organizations actually befriended and worked with known Nazis for a while. >:( ::)
I just read the story of Gitty Grunwald in the July 21 issue of New York Magazine who escaped from life as a Satmar wife
and lost her daughter in the process. That story horrified me as do many of the practices of Hasidic Jews. But this one
in particular made me feel ashamed to share a religion with these people.
Frankly, reading about the Satmar Jews didn't seem all that much different from the Muslim fundamentalists.
There's more to that story than meets the eye.
I also find it troubling that the knee-jerk reaction nowadays is automatically to assume the father is a criminal and the mother deserves custody any time parents split up. T his is atrocious.
Fact: The woman was getting high with hasidic rebels in the woods. (and I won't suggest about her other behaviors. But the getting stoned part was documented fact, in the article, And in the drug test!!!). How can you possibly think the woman deserves custody? SHe is not fit to be a mother if she is running off to the woods to get high and act out against her upbringing! That is childish and irresponsible. The author of the article sympathizes on her because 1 he probably has a crush on her and 2 he is anti orthodoxy and another knee jerk liberal who automatically assumes the mother is just in every case, so the article takes that form and you get only her side of the story, which seems disturbing and twisted even when its biased towards her!
How do you know she was getting high with rebels in the woods? You got proof?
IT'S IN THE ARTICLE. SHE ADMITTED THIS. ARE YOU BLIND?
Why is she an unfit mother
BECAUSE SHE'S SMOKING DOPE.
-
Dude, why are you going so crazy here? What is the deal, really?
Tell me what your beef is and also why you are screaming at Horselady, equally for no reason. (And I think that drug abuse, as wrongful and self-destructive as it is, does not compare to calling down hideous curses on your brothers and sisters and treating them as goyim because they don't believe what you do and don't accept your own "rebbe" as messiah.)
Where did I say that David Kelsey (owner of Kvetcher.net) has it all right or is a voice for all of Judaism? As you always do, you imagine that I say whatever you want me to! I used ONE excerpt from ONE poster to his blog in order to illustrate what is really common knowledge amongst NYC Jews as to what the Satmar believe. I do not know Yiddish and don't have any translations of what the Satmar rebbe himself wrote and taught offhand, but everybody knows what these guys are all about. They even live in a compound and cut themselves off from the rest of society because they don't want to be defiled by other Jews.
I don't know David Kelsey. From what I skimmed of Kvetcher, he strikes me as a guy who has seen a lot of stuff that has made him jaded and cynical, and because of that he sadly has the belief that all religious Jews are hypocritical and no-damn-good. Chaim said, in response to my post on Ask JTF, that when a fellow Jew is mistaken, our duty is to go out of our way to look for the good in him or her and correct him--indeed, that that is one of the hallmarks of Judaic philosophy that differentiates it from Christian theology. That is what we should be doing--acknowledging that he has seen stuff that has made him jaded and cynical, but telling him why he is wrong and why the things he attributes to all religious Jews are false. But with you it's just hate, hate, hate and condemn, condemn, condemn. That is Lashon Hara. You are speaking evil things of Kelsey, period. End of story.
Unless you can show me where I said that Kelsey is right to attack all religious Jews, I really am not interested in having this debate anymore, whatsoever. If, though, the only way you can win arguments is by putting words in your opponents' mouths, then I am having nothing more to do with this.
-
Dude, why are you going so crazy here? What is the deal, really?
(And I think that drug abuse, as wrongful and self-destructive as it is, does not compare to calling down hideous curses on your brothers and sisters and treating them as goyim because they don't believe what you do and don't accept your own "rebbe" as messiah.)
Did I compare this to drug abuse?
-
You called Gitty Gershwin (or whatever her name is) an unfit mother because of her drug use.
-
I don't know David Kelsey. From what I skimmed of Kvetcher, he strikes me as a guy who has seen a lot of stuff that has made him jaded and cynical, and because of that he sadly has the belief that all religious Jews are hypocritical and no-damn-good.
And this is relevant how?
But with you it's just hate, hate, hate and condemn, condemn, condemn.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Only I don't hate hate hate despite what you say here. This is just a lie. Do I need to repeat that I am sick of your baseless slander? That is Lashon Hara.
Can you stop pretending you are an expert of Judaism? really, can you stop?
You are speaking evil things of Kelsey, period.
I am? Quote me. I have not spoken evil things. QUOTE ME.
If, though, the only way you can win arguments is by putting words in your opponents' mouths, then I am having nothing more to do with this.
But that's your expertise and that is how this started. You stated that Satmar believe zionists are non Jews. I asked you to prove it. You failed miserably.
-
You called Gitty Gershwin (or whatever her name is) an unfit mother because of her drug use.
This wasn't a conversation with you, it was with someone else. And mostly it has to do with me being tired of feminism and liberal leftism which says the man is always at fault. I merely called out the hypocrisy.
Also, if the man is religious, forget about it. Then he's doubly at fault.
-
I dont think this kind of squabbling is good for any of the parties involved. I happen to come down on KWRBTs side on this because as a Jew he is more knowledgeable about what Satmar is compared to CF whose opinion is valued, but only as opinion. Personally I dont defend the Satmar sect and believe it is completely wrong about its understanding of Moshiach.
But it seems that KWRBT is more forgiving of this sects ability to turn its back on its Jewish bretheren who struggle to make aliyah to the holy land. Not wanting to start a war but wanting to reveal my true feelings, in some ways I understand what they are saying. As I quoted from Torah in a recent posting, Hashem can vomit the Jewish people from the promised land if they dont keep the commandments. When I look at the current Israeli government I wonder if this is really what Hashem wanted. I too get so depressed when the gays march on the Holy City in defiance of Hashems will. The corrupt Olmert government raking in the bucks on the backs of the settlers who sacrificed everything to make Israel strong. Sometimes it is disgusting and makes me cry in my bed.
We have just begun the period in Judaism known as "The Three Weeks". From Sunday, June 20 through Sunday, August 10 are a period of national mourning, during which we focus on disasters that befell the Jewish people throughout history. One particularly significant tragedy is that on Tish B'Av {Ninth of the month Av} Moses broke the 1st tablets he brought down from Sinai when he saw the people dancing around the idol of the golden calf. On this day the 1st temple was destroyed by the Babylonians.
It is believed much of this tragedy was caused because of baseless hatred and evil speech. I would truely love it if all of us can make an example of our ability to come together on issues and not be divisive. This is a very tough challenge, and I myself am challenged.
May Hashem bless us with the strength to resist battle which is not necessary and strength to enter battle which is required.
muman613
-
Chaim said, in response to my post on Ask JTF, that when a fellow Jew is mistaken, our duty is to go out of our way to look for the good in him or her and correct him--indeed, that that is one of the hallmarks of Judaic philosophy that differentiates it from Christian theology.
Unlike you, I an NOT ignorant of Judaism, so what Chaim said was nothing new to me. What's incredibly funny about all this though is that you refuse to take this approach with Jewish groups that YOU disagree with. You seem to think it only applies to Lubavitch and secular Jews, all of whom get a free pass with you while all other Jews are considered evil, like you consider Satmar. I got news for you CF, I'm not Lubavitch, and I'm not secular, I'm a religious Jew, so why don't you call me "satmar" now or slander me to my face again?
-
Muman, I disagree very strongly with Satmar beliefs and think they're wrong about a lot of stuff. The difference is, I don't automatically hate them. And they are not all the same either. I also happen to disagree with some Chabad ideas, but according to cf that will probably label me as a "chabad-hater" which couldn't be further from the truth. I'm not Lubavitch but I LOVE Chabad, and have had only positive experience with Chabadniks.
-
My experience with Chabad is awesome. I love my Chabad Rabbi and he loves me. You should see some of the pictures from last Purim party. I have nothing against Chabad except for the issue of Messianic Chabad. My good friend Yosef grew up in a Chabad family {of 12 brothers} and he tells me that only some Chabad rabbis really believe the Rebbe was Moshiach. But it is clear to any level headed Jew that Moshiachs mission must be complete in his lifetime.
The problem with Satmars view of Moshiach is that they believe that the Jews cannot enter the Holy Land until the other nations allow them to do so. Then Moshiach will come and the 3rd Temple will descend from heaven. I completely disagree with this understanding of the Moshiach.
Keep up the good work KWRBT but please lets keep the namecalling and animosity down as we move toward Tish B'Av.
Shalom Alechem,
muman613
-
There is a tiny fringe minority of Jews, probably less then .005% (one-half of one percent), i.e. the two main splinter organizations (Voice of Judea and Revava) and some of the lunatic cults of Judaism (i.e. Satmarism) who are supremacist schmucks. They hate all Gentiles and all Jews who do not subscribe to their own elitist, exclusivist mentalities. If I am not mistaken, the Satmar and their offshoots the NK actually define all non-Satmar/NK Jews as goyim.
I even understand that a few Satmar have been known to indulge in immorality with shiksas and then justify it by claiming that since the women were goy, their indiscretions do not count since they were not actually involved with a human being.
Like all so-called "supremacists", such as the "white nationalists" who are voting for Obama in order to stick it to Jews (who, by and large, are white), these fools are complete hypocrites. They love to rattle the saber and beat their chests with idle talk of saving Israel, but they are really only out to try to destroy real Jewish nationalists they are jealous of (i.e. HaYamin HaAmiti). They hate JTF and Chaim more than they hate Arabs and Nazis, and as we all know, one of their organizations actually befriended and worked with known Nazis for a while. >:( ::)
I just read the story of Gitty Grunwald in the July 21 issue of New York Magazine who escaped from life as a Satmar wife
and lost her daughter in the process. That story horrified me as do many of the practices of Hasidic Jews. But this one
in particular made me feel ashamed to share a religion with these people.
Frankly, reading about the Satmar Jews didn't seem all that much different from the Muslim fundamentalists.
There's more to that story than meets the eye.
I also find it troubling that the knee-jerk reaction nowadays is automatically to assume the father is a criminal and the mother deserves custody any time parents split up. T his is atrocious.
Fact: The woman was getting high with hasidic rebels in the woods. (and I won't suggest about her other behaviors. But the getting stoned part was documented fact, in the article, And in the drug test!!!). How can you possibly think the woman deserves custody? SHe is not fit to be a mother if she is running off to the woods to get high and act out against her upbringing! That is childish and irresponsible. The author of the article sympathizes on her because 1 he probably has a crush on her and 2 he is anti orthodoxy and another knee jerk liberal who automatically assumes the mother is just in every case, so the article takes that form and you get only her side of the story, which seems disturbing and twisted even when its biased towards her!
How do you know she was getting high with rebels in the woods? You got proof? A drug test that wouldn't pass muster in any court of law? Why is she an unfit mother
just because she chose to reject the Satmar life where she is nothing more than a baby making machine with little freedom to do what she wants. Most US courts do grant custody to the mother as they should. She has a job, an apartment, and is not a junkie. She should get custody. To say the writer had the hots for her is childish.
I thought I've read a lot of criticism from time to time on this site re: the Satmars. Aren't they the ones who reject Israel as the Jewish state? Aren't they just like
the Muslims (minus the killing) in this opinion?
Look here is a story about her (of course from a leftist point of view):
http://nymag.com/news/features/48532/
I have read a part of the story and have seen the pictures of Gitty.
This woman is totally nuts. She uses her daughter to get attention from the media. The private life of righteous people doesn't belong to the public.
And she looks for me like a prostitute and I am not so Victorian ::)
In my oppinion the little girl should be educated by the religious Jews and not by such a raven-mother. Perhaps she has to renounce some things, but in a long term she will be very lucky about this fact.
-
I also read that NY Magazine article. That Gitty did not help her case by allowing herself to be photographed in those immodest poses.
-
I also read that NY Magazine article. That Gitty did not help her case by allowing herself to be photographed in those immodest poses.
Wow it was very long. I just finished it.
Sorry - Gitty is a total mentalcase.
She lost custody, because she was smoking cannabis. How stupid can somebody be?
And I don't believe, that the Rabbis watches the underwear of every women after the end of her cycle. This is so overstated. If this would be the case they would have no time for other tasks.
-
I think we can agree to agree that Gitty has many problems, and is messed-up, and is no example that any Jew should follow in the least. That being said, I am sure that the cultic environment of the Satmar didn't do anything whatsoever for her mental health. Both she and her Satmar family are utterly unfit to care for as much as a frog. However, that being said, in my opinion, I think G-d will judge someone who deliberately chooses hatred of fellow Jews, and who sides with the Muslims against Israel, over a garden-variety drug-addled nutcase.
I still do not agree with this wanton hatred of David Kelsey, who as far as I can see is just really misguided and ignorant and not a kapo. I am quite sure that if he met genuine, true religious Jews such as Chaim Ben Pesach, that he would change his tune, or at least stop and think about his worldview. The reason why I judge Satmar much more harshly than him is because although he is deeply critical of religious Judaism, he is not supporting Islam or arguing that Israel should not exist. There is a difference in the magnitude of what they are doing.
-
And she looks for me like a prostitute and I am not so Victorian ::)
Good grief. (http://bestsmileys.com/anxious/1.gif)
-
I think G-d will judge someone who deliberately chooses hatred of fellow Jews, and who sides with the Muslims against Israel, over a garden-variety drug-addled nutcase.
The reason why I judge Satmar much more harshly than him is because although he is deeply critical of religious Judaism, he is not supporting Islam or arguing that Israel should not exist. There is a difference in the magnitude of what they are doing.
I agree.
-
She looks to me like a young girl that did not and does not have the strong and healthy influence and support of a mother and father.
-
Whatever according to cf's view next time a mexican rapes and kills somebody we then should have a right to blame him for it because he is mexican. Or the next time a white guy does a crime all whities should be concidered criminals. ::) This guy hates Jews and is a sicko. If I meet him on the street and he would say something like that I would punch him in the face and call him an anti-semite.
P.S. to Jews, we need unity and to love eachother, we shouldn't let some sickos try to divide us, even if they claim they support Jews ::) .