JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lubab on November 18, 2008, 12:48:13 AM
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Oil and wind power are only inefficient forms of solar energy. Most all our energy comes from the sun.
Oil is made from decomposed plant-life which trapped the sunlight and gives oil its energy. Wind is also caused by heat that comes from the sun.
Why not start getting our energy directly instead of always going through a middleman? All that we need are for solar panels to get better at trapping the sunlight. They are already quite good. Only a very small portion of earth would need to be covered with solar panels and it would be enough for all our energy needs.
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Nuclear would be much cheaper. France is able to get nearly half of their energy from Nuclear power.... and we should too. Its simply a matter of getting the politicians to go along with it.
As unlikely as it seems.... its more feasible to get politicians to change a few laws than it would be build enough solar panels to feed our power demand.
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Nuclear would be much cheaper. France is able to get nearly half of their energy from Nuclear power.... and we should too. Its simply a matter of getting the politicians to go along with it.
As unlikely as it seems.... its more feasible to get politicians to change a few laws than it would be build enough solar panels to feed our power demand.
Nuclear power produces nuclear waste and lots of it. Not a great long term solution.
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Yeah.
World peace is the other answer.
:::D
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One cannot make chicken salad out of chicken drek.
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One cannot make chicken salad out of chicken drek.
Explain yourself and discuss. I'm open to whatever you have to say, but right now nobody knows what you're talking about but yourself.
You do not agree that oil's energy is really just the sun's energy after all?
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One cannot make chicken salad out of chicken drek.
Explain yourself and discuss. I'm open to whatever you have to say, but right now nobody knows what you're talking about but yourself.
If solar energy was a viable source of energy, it would have been exploited.
Many people know what I'm talking about...engineers, scientists, realists, etc.
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One cannot make chicken salad out of chicken drek.
Explain yourself and discuss. I'm open to whatever you have to say, but right now nobody knows what you're talking about but yourself.
If solar energy was a viable source of energy, it would have been exploited already.
Many people know what I'm talking about...engineers, scientists, realists, etc.
There's a big reason why it hasn't been exploited to one small fraction of it's potential. And it's called the big oil companies.
To admit that the oil's energy comes from the sun and then claim that the sun is not a viable source of energy is beyond illogical. It's insane.
The energy you are using to write these very words comes from the sun as you write "it's not a viable source of energy".
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You've been brainwashed by Limbaugh.
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To admit that the oil's energy comes from the sun and then claim that the sun is not a viable source of energy is beyond illogical. It's insane.
I don't understand.
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To admit that the oil's energy comes from the sun and then claim that the sun is not a viable source of energy is beyond illogical. It's insane.
I don't understand.
Where does oil get it's powerful energy from? It get's it from decomposed plant life. That plant life stored energy which it got from the sun.
Now do you understand what I mean? The real energy source is not the oil. It's the sun.
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You've been brainwashed by Limbaugh.
I've been influenced by many great Men...Chaim, Beethoven, Rabbi Kahane, Alexander Scriabin.
Limbaugh doesn't belong in that category but I agree with him more than I disagree with him.
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Here is the map which shows how much of earth must be covered with solar panels to provide our energy needs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Solar_land_area.png
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To admit that the oil's energy comes from the sun and then claim that the sun is not a viable source of energy is beyond illogical. It's insane.
I don't understand.
Where does oil get it's powerful energy from? It get's it from decomposed plant life. That plant life stored energy which is got from the sun.
Now do you understand what I mean? The real energy source is not the oil. It's the sun.
Rabbi, with all due respect, we ALL get our energy from the sun (through G-d, of course).
The fact that, "oil comes from the Sun" is irrelevant and your premise (that solar power is a more efficient source of energy) is erroneous.
Let's ask a well-qualified engineer or scientist about this.
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To admit that the oil's energy comes from the sun and then claim that the sun is not a viable source of energy is beyond illogical. It's insane.
I don't understand.
Where does oil get it's powerful energy from? It get's it from decomposed plant life. That plant life stored energy which is got from the sun.
Now do you understand what I mean? The real energy source is not the oil. It's the sun.
Rabbi, with all due respect, we ALL get our energy from the sun (through G-d, of course).
The fact that, "oil comes from the Sun" is irrelevant and your premise (that solar power is a more efficient source of energy is erroneous).
Let's ask a well-qualified engineer or scientist about this.
Yes most all of our energy DOES come from the sun. You are catching on.
Oil does not come from the sun. Oil's ENERGY comes from the sun. My premise is if we can trap and store sunlight half as good as plants do and fill up those little black dots you see on the map above with those solar panels...we'll have more energy than we'll ever need and "yes" it would be far more efficient than using oil.
That is true.
You can consult all the scientist you like. You can start with the ones referenced on this page: http://www.ez2c.de/ml/solar_land_area/
It's an undeniable fact.
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Here is the map which shows how much of earth must be covered with solar panels to provide our energy needs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Solar_land_area.png
So, all we need to do is build a solar panel the size of Wyoming and we're all set.
:::D
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You can consult all the scientist you like. You can start with the ones referenced on this page: http://www.ez2c.de/ml/solar_land_area/
It's an undeniable fact.
Because you say something is, "an undeniable fact", doesn't make it so.
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You can consult all the scientist you like. You can start with the ones referenced on this page: http://www.ez2c.de/ml/solar_land_area/
It's an undeniable fact.
Because you say something is, "an undeniable fact", doesn't make it so.
True. But it is also true that you can't deny that the energy from your oil comes from the sun. You can't deny that that is the true source of power and energy and if harnessed properly it can produce far more energy than oil ever could.
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You can consult all the scientist you like. You can start with the ones referenced on this page: http://www.ez2c.de/ml/solar_land_area/
It's an undeniable fact.
Because you say something is, "an undeniable fact", doesn't make it so.
Your oil comes from the sun. If harnessed properly it can produce far more energy than oil ever could.
If?
If Ha-Shem wanted to, he could end all suffering.
Doing away with oil is a wonderful goal but let's be realistic.
And its not my oil. I wish it was, I could donate millions to JTF.
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Your oil comes from the sun. If harnessed properly it can produce far more energy than oil ever could.
And its not my oil. I wish it was, I could donate millions to JTF.
Billions, for that matter.
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Nuclear would be much cheaper. France is able to get nearly half of their energy from Nuclear power.... and we should too. Its simply a matter of getting the politicians to go along with it.
As unlikely as it seems.... its more feasible to get politicians to change a few laws than it would be build enough solar panels to feed our power demand.
Nuclear power produces nuclear waste and lots of it. Not a great long term solution.
Nuclear waste is not a big problem. The Volume of nuclear waste product is very small comparing to any other industrial waste. However there isn't enough uranium to make a long term solution.
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Nuclear would be much cheaper. France is able to get nearly half of their energy from Nuclear power.... and we should too. Its simply a matter of getting the politicians to go along with it.
As unlikely as it seems.... its more feasible to get politicians to change a few laws than it would be build enough solar panels to feed our power demand.
Nuclear power produces nuclear waste and lots of it. Not a great long term solution.
Thats a big misconception. The spent Uranium is stored in such a way that it has very little residual radiation. Even many environmentalists (Not the nutty ones) believe that Nuclear power is the most feasible environmentally friendly answer.
Much has changed since the early days of Nuclear power... .We are just way behind the curve.
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One cannot make chicken salad out of chicken drek.
Explain yourself and discuss. I'm open to whatever you have to say, but right now nobody knows what you're talking about but yourself.
If solar energy was a viable source of energy, it would have been exploited.
Many people know what I'm talking about...engineers, scientists, realists, etc.
Your a very smart guy Scriabin.
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One cannot make chicken salad out of chicken drek.
Explain yourself and discuss. I'm open to whatever you have to say, but right now nobody knows what you're talking about but yourself.
If solar energy was a viable source of energy, it would have been exploited.
Many people know what I'm talking about...engineers, scientists, realists, etc.
Your a very smart guy Scriabin.
You have great judgement, Brian.
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Nuclear would be much cheaper. France is able to get nearly half of their energy from Nuclear power.... and we should too. Its simply a matter of getting the politicians to go along with it.
As unlikely as it seems.... its more feasible to get politicians to change a few laws than it would be build enough solar panels to feed our power demand.
Nuclear power produces nuclear waste and lots of it. Not a great long term solution.
Nuclear waste is not a big problem. The Volume of nuclear waste product is very small comparing to any other industrial waste. However there isn't enough uranium to make a long term solution.
Actually... Ive heard there is plenty. Its just a matter of more focus on Uranium mining.
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Hello,
I think Solar is a good option but there is a lot of work needed to perfect the efficiency of the solar panels. When we talk about solar we are talking about two different solar methods, Passive solar heating and photovoltaic energy production... Solar heating is very mature and it can save energy during the summers and winters, when energy consumption increases. But electric solar panels are not very effective at this time and need to become more efficient before we rely on this technology. I support government investment in research and development of solar technology since energy independence is a national security issue in this day an age.
muman613
See : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_energy
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Other types of energy might be even more effective
Zero point energy
Cold fussion
matter / anti matter
All of these are currently being pursued as alternatives.
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ALL matter is energy. E=mc2
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Other types of energy might be even more effective
Zero point energy
Cold fussion
matter / anti matter
All of these are currently being pursued as alternatives.
These are all science fiction energy sources.
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You can consult all the scientist you like. You can start with the ones referenced on this page: http://www.ez2c.de/ml/solar_land_area/
It's an undeniable fact.
Because you say something is, "an undeniable fact", doesn't make it so.
True. But it is also true that you can't deny that the energy from your oil comes from the sun. You can't deny that that is the true source of power and energy and if harnessed properly it can produce far more energy than oil ever could.
Its about feasibility, not getting it from the original source. Nuclear is the most Feasible option. Getting enough solar panels to generate enough power for our needs is simply unfeasible. It would be prohibitively expensive... which is why NO COUNTRY DOES THIS!!! (Unless you believe they are all part of a massive conspiracy... which you probably do)
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To admit that the oil's energy comes from the sun and then claim that the sun is not a viable source of energy is beyond illogical. It's insane.
I don't understand.
Where does oil get it's powerful energy from? It get's it from decomposed plant life. That plant life stored energy which it got from the sun.
Now do you understand what I mean? The real energy source is not the oil. It's the sun.
And the sun gets its energy from.....nuclear fusion.
So lets skip the first middleman which is the sun and lets produce our own fusion energy.
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To admit that the oil's energy comes from the sun and then claim that the sun is not a viable source of energy is beyond illogical. It's insane.
I don't understand.
Where does oil get it's powerful energy from? It get's it from decomposed plant life. That plant life stored energy which it got from the sun.
Now do you understand what I mean? The real energy source is not the oil. It's the sun.
And the sun gets its energy from.....nuclear fusion.
So lets skip the first middleman which is the sun and lets produce our own fusion energy.
Someday!!!
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Lubab is right. Oil companies are buying at least in my country systematically patents and companies, that have promising concepts for alternative energies inclusive solar power.
In addition to that it is obvious, that all power, except geothermal energy and gravitation energy has its source in the sun.
Oil and wind energy have it's source in the sun.
It is very promising because if we would be able to use it properly it would supply us until the sun ends.
Atomic energy has the same problem like coal and gas. There is not infinitive radioactive material on this planet, like there is not infinitive fossile fuel.
Perhaps fusion is a possibility, but until now we are not able to use it.
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Lubab is right. Oil companies are buying at least in my country systematically patents and companies, that have promising concepts for alternative energies inclusive solar power.
In addition to that it is obvious, that all power, except geothermal energy and gravitation energy has its source in the sun.
Oil and wind energy have it's source in the sun.
It is very promising because if we would be able to use it properly it would supply us until the sun ends.
Atomic energy has the same problem like coal and gas. There is not infinitive radioactive material on this planet, like there is not infinitive fossile fuel.
Perhaps fusion is a possibility, but until now we are not able to use it.
But nuclear fuel lasts a long, long time... Much longer than any conventional energy source. I dont think we will run out of radioactive material before the sun explodes, or the end of the world...
muman613
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Muman, I have heard, that the current places will be exhausted in the next years.
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I think the one lesson one must learn is that every source of energy is not infinite in availability. The only source which is infinite is our G-d Hashem... Once we know this we will not fear the fact that our source of energy is not 100% guaranteed.
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Muman, I have heard, that the current places will be exhausted in the next years.
I have not heard this... Could you please provide a link?
muman613
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Oil and wind power are only inefficient forms of solar energy. Most all our energy comes from the sun.
Oil is made from decomposed plant-life which trapped the sunlight and gives oil its energy. Wind is also caused by heat that comes from the sun.
Why not start getting our energy directly instead of always going through a middleman? All that we need are for solar panels to get better at trapping the sunlight. They are already quite good. Only a very small portion of earth would need to be covered with solar panels and it would be enough for all our energy needs.
Solar energy is not very advanced yet. It can hardly heat up water let alone take care of large scale energy production.
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Pheasant,
According to this : http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/fuel-supply.html
It appears there is not a shortage of material, just a shortage of mining and processing facilities. This is what should be invested in in the coming years. There is not a shortage of nuclear material, just a lack of ability to process it...
muman613
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My idea for solar energy is to create satellites which would spread large solar cell arrays to collect and store electric energy in battery cells which can be brought back to earth to be used in electric distribution plants. I am sure that the NASA scientists are considering this idea...
muman613
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My idea for solar energy is to create satellites which would spread large solar cell arrays to collect and store electric energy in battery cells which can be brought back to earth to be used in electric distribution plants. I am sure that the NASA scientists are considering this idea...
muman613
I have heard of this. There are already plans to build solar plants in the orbit. But I think there has to be found another way to transport the energy. Energy cells are not able to store this great ammount of power. Perhaps it is possible to transfer it by laser or microwaves to an earth station. But I don't know how much energy is lost on this way. :-/
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To admit that the oil's energy comes from the sun and then claim that the sun is not a viable source of energy is beyond illogical. It's insane.
I don't understand.
Where does oil get it's powerful energy from? It get's it from decomposed plant life. That plant life stored energy which it got from the sun.
Now do you understand what I mean? The real energy source is not the oil. It's the sun.
And the sun gets its energy from.....nuclear fusion.
So lets skip the first middleman which is the sun and lets produce our own fusion energy.
There is a lot of research being done on producing fusion energy, but I don't think anyone will figure out how to effectively produce fusion energy soon in the future. If we could prouce fusion energy, that would probably be the best energy source because of the abundancy of hydrogen.
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How do animals burn energy they eat?
By chemical right?
To over simplify, imagine sticking a carrot in a car and it would get you a few miles.
Then again, what would be the by-product?
I wonder if we could replicate the chemical burning that goes on in animals.
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How do animals burn energy they eat?
By chemical right?
To over simplify, imagine sticking a carrot in a car and it would get you a few miles.
Then again, what would be the by-product?
I wonder if we could replicate the chemical burning that goes on in animals.
I would imagine that the waste product would smell very bad...
muman613
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Lubab is right. Oil companies are buying at least in my country systematically patents and companies, that have promising concepts for alternative energies inclusive solar power.
In addition to that it is obvious, that all power, except geothermal energy and gravitation energy has its source in the sun.
Oil and wind energy have it's source in the sun.
It is very promising because if we would be able to use it properly it would supply us until the sun ends.
Atomic energy has the same problem like coal and gas. There is not infinitive radioactive material on this planet, like there is not infinitive fossile fuel.
Perhaps fusion is a possibility, but until now we are not able to use it.
This is nuts. There is no grand conspiracy to keep 'solar energy' down. Its just not practical.... and Nuclear is. The proof is in the pudding... There is NO country that gets any significant amount of their power from Solar... and there are multiple countries that get a majority from nuclear. If it were just as feasible as nuclear... there would have been countries utilizing it.
Also...the top environmental scientists (not the wackos) always recommend nuclear power as the most feasible way to reduce pollution.
Finally... Here in California... we tried this nonsense. (Which Obama suggested). We made it prohibitively expensive to create new power plants from anything except solar and wind... and guess what happened????? The cost of energy in California skyrocketed!!!!! it created a horrific scandal which ultimately led to our governor being recalled (Even though it was his predecessors fault). And guess what the end result was???? we now import our additional energy needs from states without these prohibitions... and we even import energy from Mexico which has NO standards.
The choice is obvious... and it is nuclear.
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The Japanese company KYOCERA produces some of the most efficient solar cells.
I have a 11inX7in solar panel with solar cells from Kyocera.
http://www.amazon.com/CDT-5w-Solar-Panel-crystalline-charger/dp/B000NP349G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1227190441&sr=8-1
I have it charging a Absorbed Glass Mat lead acid battery.
http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm
I have the solar panel mounted on my car.
It charges the AGM battery inside but on a seprate circuit from the car battery or any part of the car.
Every two days I would use the system [solar-AGM battery] to charge my PDA/phone [palm treo].
Every morning, afternoon, and sun-down, I would measure the voltage.
The morning voltage is the most accurate for measure because it has not been affected by power from the solar panel.
The average voltage during the summer was 12.8V.
The average voltage at this time is 12.5V.
My cell phone charges for about 1.5hours at .5A (or 500mA).
So, if I cover my entire car with these solar cells, it still wouldn't amount to much. However, the insignifigant amount of energy it does produce is fine for powering accessories.
It just won't power my car for daily travel.
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The Japanese company KYOCERA produces some of the most efficient solar cells.
I have a 11inX7in solar panel with solar cells from Kyocera.
http://www.amazon.com/CDT-5w-Solar-Panel-crystalline-charger/dp/B000NP349G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1227190441&sr=8-1
I have it charging a Absorbed Glass Mat lead acid battery.
http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm
I have the solar panel mounted on my car.
It charges the AGM battery inside but on a seprate circuit from the car battery or any part of the car.
Every two days I would use the system [solar-AGM battery] to charge my PDA/phone [palm treo].
Every morning, afternoon, and sun-down, I would measure the voltage.
The morning voltage is the most accurate for measure because it has not been affected by power from the solar panel.
The average voltage during the summer was 12.8V.
The average voltage at this time is 12.5V.
My cell phone charges for about 1.5hours at .5A (or 500mA).
So, if I cover my entire car with these solar cells, it still wouldn't amount to much. However, the insignifigant amount of energy it does produce is fine for powering accessories.
It just won't power my car for daily travel.
Yes... but you could power every car in the country with about 200 state of the art Nuclear power plants.... which could be built in a remarkably short time... within 10 years.... assuming the ban was lifted.
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A little bit off topic, but Kyocera builts the most economic laser-printers.
Perhaps you remember that I wanted to buy a new printer, because my old one was finished.
I decided for a Kyocera FS-1900.
Great machine and so cheap in consumption of toner and energy. :)
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The Japanese company KYOCERA produces some of the most efficient solar cells.
I have a 11inX7in solar panel with solar cells from Kyocera.
http://www.amazon.com/CDT-5w-Solar-Panel-crystalline-charger/dp/B000NP349G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1227190441&sr=8-1
I have it charging a Absorbed Glass Mat lead acid battery.
http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm
I have the solar panel mounted on my car.
It charges the AGM battery inside but on a seprate circuit from the car battery or any part of the car.
Every two days I would use the system [solar-AGM battery] to charge my PDA/phone [palm treo].
Every morning, afternoon, and sun-down, I would measure the voltage.
The morning voltage is the most accurate for measure because it has not been affected by power from the solar panel.
The average voltage during the summer was 12.8V.
The average voltage at this time is 12.5V.
My cell phone charges for about 1.5hours at .5A (or 500mA).
So, if I cover my entire car with these solar cells, it still wouldn't amount to much. However, the insignifigant amount of energy it does produce is fine for powering accessories.
It just won't power my car for daily travel.
Yes... but you could power every car in the country with about 200 state of the art Nuclear power plants.... which could be built in a remarkably short time... within 10 years.... assuming the ban was lifted.
I'll do you one better.
As Scriabin (jokingly but truthfully) pointed out you could take care of ALL of our energy needs for the entire world (not just the cars) with one solar panel the size of Idaho (actually one even smaller would do it). It leaves none of the toxic waste that nuclear power does and it's supply is endless. The techonology is ALREADY HERE and this would be CHEAP to do. It's insanity that it has not been done already and you guys are still arguing about other methods.
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To admit that the oil's energy comes from the sun and then claim that the sun is not a viable source of energy is beyond illogical. It's insane.
I don't understand.
Where does oil get it's powerful energy from? It get's it from decomposed plant life. That plant life stored energy which it got from the sun.
Now do you understand what I mean? The real energy source is not thea
You have a good point there pointing out that the power of the sun comes from nuclear fusion. But creating our own nuclear fusion in not the answer. It is a waste of energy and resources when the nuclear fusion that has already taken place in the sun naturally has already provided more than enough energy to power all our needs.