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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xoce on November 18, 2008, 05:26:51 PM

Title: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Xoce on November 18, 2008, 05:26:51 PM
This is from Atlasshrugs.com (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/ (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/))

Quote
Pollard's sentence is an abomination. Pure anti-semitism. Let's be frank, shall we? If Israel wanted to spy on the US, they wouldn't use a Jewish guy. Helllooooo.

This is Pollard's 24th year in prison. The median sentence for the offense Pollard committed - one count of passing classified information to an ally - is 2 to 4 years. Pollard received his life sentence without a trial, as a result of a plea bargain which he honored and the U.S. government violated.

Flood the White House with Phone Calls: Free Pollard Now!

"I'm calling to register a strong request that President  Bush issue an immediate Pardon to Jonathan Pollard."

Flood the White House with Phone Calls: Free Pollard Now!

On Friday Nov 21st Jonathan Pollard will enter his 24th year in prison.
On Sunday Nov 23rd Ehud Olmert will be meeting with President Bush for the
last time.
On Thursday Nov 27th the American people will celebrate the Thanksgiving
Holiday - a holiday traditionally associated with Presidential clemencies.
Now is the time to call upon the President:
Free Jonathan Pollard!
Call: 202-456 -1111 or 202-456-1414
(Monday to Friday 9AM to 5PM - Eastern DST)
Every phone call is important. Everyone is encouraged to start calling the
White House and to call daily, repeatedly, until Jonathan is home in
Jerusalem, alive and well.

Presidential clemencies are traditionally signed precisely at this time and
prisoners are freed in advance of the holiday to go home to their families
for Thanksgiving. What finer gesture could President Bush make to the People
of Israel when he meets with the PM this coming week? Freedom for Jonathan
Pollard!

Mr. Bush has but 2 months left in office. These two months are a time of
grace, when the out-going president traditionally grants clemencies to
prisoners. There is no legal or moral reason that requires the president to
wait until his last day in office to grant clemency. Call the White House
today! Please, Mr. President, send Jonathan Pollard home!

White House telephone lines are manned from 4 PM
To ensure a faster response, follow the instructions
for "Rotary" telephones regardless!]

"I'm calling to register a strong request that President  Bush issue an immediate Pardon to Jonathan Pollard."
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: q_q_ on November 18, 2008, 05:34:27 PM
don't put it in quotes or it goes small.
Just use quotation marks
"
...
"

Jonthan Pollard is a hero, but aside from that,  that has spent WAY too long incarcerated. He has even spent time in solitary confinement.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: muman613 on November 18, 2008, 05:40:49 PM
FREE JONATHAN POLLARD NOW!

I have signed petitions and called newspaper editors on this one. For sure Pollard was not dealt with fairly, most likely because he is Jewish and worked for Israel. It seems like he is being sacrificed for the 'peace plan'...

muman613

PS: I have found using both a <quote> tag and a <size> tag in combination gets around the small font size when quoting...


[ quote ][ size=9pt ]This is a test[ /size ][ /quote ]


Quote
This is a test
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Taylor on November 26, 2008, 04:13:03 AM
I think Pollard should be freed now! Why is he not on the Bush's pardon list.  >:(
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: JTFFan on November 26, 2008, 04:15:22 AM
Free Jonathan Pollard :usa+israel: >:(
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Raulmarrio2000 on November 26, 2008, 04:21:31 AM
He should be freed and make alyiah. Israel should strongly demand his liberation. It's silly that the US presses on Israel to make peace with terrorists with blood in their hands and free them.... and the same US refuses to liberate Pollard.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: JTFFan on November 26, 2008, 04:32:12 AM
He should be freed and make alyiah. Israel should strongly demand his liberation. It's silly that the US presses on Israel to make peace with terrorists with blood in their hands and free them.... and the same US refuses to liberate Pollard.

I definitely agree they should have freed him a long time ago.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Dr. Dan on November 26, 2008, 11:46:25 AM
He did what he had to do, got caught, went to jail because it was illegal..

But he should be set free...he got a worse punishment than people who have broke worse laws. It's an injustice.

it's equally the same type of injustice that chaim is not allowed to even visit Israel, but that murderous arabs are allowed to serve in the Knesset..

I think you get my jist.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Ulli on November 26, 2008, 11:54:37 AM
They should let him free now! It is not fair to put him for such a long time in prison.

His deeds were not as evil as those of a large quantity of terrorists and criminals, who were pardoned before.

Israel is an ally of the USA. So it is a totally different issue to give informations to an ally as to an enemy.

Imo what he did was only technical treason.

Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on November 26, 2008, 01:35:21 PM
What do I think about him?   His only "crime" is being a GOOD JEW, and it is a complete injustice and atrocious offense the way he has been kept in jail for so many years and treated like dirt, by both the US and Israeli establishments.    It's an antisemitic outrage, but Shimon Peres and the court Jews in the Israeli govt are also partly responsible!
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Ulli on November 26, 2008, 01:50:12 PM
What do I think about him?   His only "crime" is being a GOOD JEW, and it is a complete injustice and atrocious offense the way he has been kept in jail for so many years and treated like dirt, by both the US and Israeli establishments.    It's an antisemitic outrage, but Shimon Peres and the court Jews in the Israeli govt are also partly responsible!

The Israeli gouvernment is imo responsible for him. He worked for them and they should do everthing to release him. This is called loyality.

Perhaps it is the best solution to transfer him to an Israeli prison and to release him after a short time quietly.

But he should get compensation for his jail time and he should be honored for his service. Althrough I think it is impossible to find an adequate compensation for two and a half decades of his life.

I know you would like to see another solution, but the most important thing is his freedom.

His story is one of the most sad I ever heard.  :'(
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: muman613 on November 26, 2008, 03:15:28 PM
We must do what we can to free Jonathan Pollard NOW... I am sick about this case. It seems to be an obvious case of antisemitism. If he were not Jewish, and not an Israeli, he would be walking free today. If he was a Muslim Nazi he would definitely be free... The way 'justice' is done in USA is that Jews always seem to get disproportionate sentences simply because they are Jewish. The latest Agroprocessing case where the Kosher slaughterhouse which employed illegals is a case of a Jewish business being persecuted. I know that here in CA there are many businesses which employ illegals and they get away with it... The Kosher slaughterhouse is being made into a case of persecution against the Jewish people.

muman613
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on November 26, 2008, 03:29:44 PM
Ronald Reagan (who, praise G-d, is being boiled in the lake of fire as we speak) did this to Pollard as a favor to his Saudi masters.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: GodGunsAndGlory on November 26, 2008, 06:17:26 PM
Stay in jail.

The last thing I want is for our intelligence to be a open book just because the spy is giving it to an ally.

The last thing I want is godless British people with no morals selling US intelligence to Mussies.

Reagan had nothing to do with the case, Pollard never appealed until 1990 and he PLEAD guilty he admitted guilt, therefore if he ever thought he never did anything wrong, why did he plea guilty?

Paul Hill never plead guilty because he knew what he did was right, so why wouldn't Pollard if he thought what he was doing was right plea guilty?
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Dan on November 26, 2008, 06:24:30 PM
Stay in jail.

The last thing I want is for our intelligence to be a open book just because the spy is giving it to an ally.

The last thing I want is godless British people with no morals selling US intelligence to Mussies.

Reagan had nothing to do with the case, Pollard never appealed until 1990 and he PLEAD guilty he admitted guilt, therefore if he ever thought he never did anything wrong, why did he plea guilty?

Paul Hill never plead guilty because he knew what he did was right, so why wouldn't Pollard if he thought what he was doing was right plea guilty?

Are you alright GNG?!
You're begging to sound like a down right Nazi colaborator.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: muman613 on November 26, 2008, 06:26:11 PM
Stay in jail.

The last thing I want is for our intelligence to be a open book just because the spy is giving it to an ally.

The last thing I want is godless British people with no morals selling US intelligence to Mussies.

Reagan had nothing to do with the case, Pollard never appealed until 1990 and he PLEAD guilty he admitted guilt, therefore if he ever thought he never did anything wrong, why did he plea guilty?

Paul Hill never plead guilty because he knew what he did was right, so why wouldn't Pollard if he thought what he was doing was right plea guilty?

He pleaded guilty because he believed he was going to be given a deal, this is called plea bargaining, and it is a common practice in the courts. The problem is that the deal which he thought he would get was not given. I think it stinks that US promised him certain things...

Quotes from Wiki page : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard
"
Jonathan Jay Pollard (born August 7, 1954 in Galveston, Texas) is a convicted Israeli spy and a former United States Naval civilian intelligence analyst. Pollard waived the right to trial as part of a plea deal for himself and his wife, pleaded guilty and was convicted on one count of spying for Israel.
"

"
Plea agreement and trial

Pollard's plea discussions with the Government sought both to minimize his chances of receiving a life sentence and to enable Anne Pollard to plead as well, which the Government was otherwise unwilling to let her do. The government, however, was prepared to offer Anne Pollard a plea agreement only after Jonathan Pollard consented to assist the government in its damage assessment and submitted to polygraph examinations and interviews with FBI agents and Department of Justice attorneys. Accordingly, over a period of several months, Pollard cooperated with the Government's investigation, and in late May 1986, the Government offered him a plea agreement, which he accepted.

By the terms of that agreement, Pollard was bound to plead guilty to one count of conspiracy to deliver national defense information to a foreign government,[15] which carried a maximum prison term of life, and to cooperate fully with the Government's ongoing investigation. He promised not to disseminate any information concerning his crimes without submitting to pre-clearance by the Director of Naval Intelligence. His agreement further provided that failure by Anne Pollard to adhere to the terms of her agreement entitled the Government to void his agreement, and her agreement contained a mirror-image provision.

In return for Pollard's plea, the Government promised not to charge him with additional crimes, entered into a plea agreement with Anne Pollard, and made several specific representations that are very much at issue in this case. The critical provisions are paragraphs 4(a) and 4(b) of the agreement, in which the Government "agreed as follows":

    (a) When [Pollard] appears before the Court for sentencing for the offense to which he has agreed to plead guilty, the Government will bring to the Court's attention the nature, extent and value of his cooperation and testimony. Because of the classified nature of the information Mr. Pollard has provided to the Government, it is understood that particular representations concerning his cooperation may have to be made to the Court in camera. In general, however, the Government has agreed to represent that the information Mr. Pollard has provided is of considerable value to the Government's damage assessment analysis, its investigation of this criminal case, and the enforcement of the espionage laws.

    (b) Notwithstanding Mr. Pollard's cooperation, at the time of sentencing the Government will recommend that the Court impose a sentence of a substantial period of incarceration and a monetary fine. The Government retains full right of allocution at all times concerning the facts and circumstances of the offenses committed by Mr. Pollard, and will be free to correct any misstatements of fact at the time of sentencing, including representations of the defendant and his counsel in regard to the nature and extent of Mr. Pollard's cooperation. Moreover, Mr. Pollard understands that, while the Court may take his cooperation into account in determining whether or not to impose a sentence of life imprisonment, this agreement cannot and does not limit the court's discretion to impose the maximum sentence.[citation needed]

On June 4, 1986 Jonathan Pollard pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to deliver national defense information to a foreign government. Before sentencing, and in violation of the plea agreement, Pollard and his wife Anne gave defiant media interviews in which they defended their spying, and attempted to rally American Jews to their cause. In a 60 Minutes interview, Anne said, "I feel my husband and I did what we were expected to do, and what our moral obligation was as Jews, what our moral obligation was as human beings, and I have no regrets about that".[9] Three weeks before Pollard's sentencing, Wolf Blitzer, at the time a Jerusalem Post correspondent, conducted a jail-cell interview with Pollard and penned an article which also ran in The Washington Post headlined, "Pollard: Not A Bumbler, but Israel's Master Spy." published on February 15, 1987.[16] Pollard told Blitzer about some of the information he provided the Israelis: reconnaissance satellite photography of Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) headquarters in Tunisia, specific capabilities of Libya's air defenses, and "the pick of U.S. intelligence about Arab and Islamic conventional and unconventional military activity, from Morocco to Pakistan and every country in between. This included both 'friendly' and 'unfriendly' Arab countries."

According to an opinion piece by Joseph C. Goulden, the breaking of the plea agreement (in which Pollard swore not to disclose classified material he obtained while working for the Navy and swore not to "provide information for purposes of publication or dissemination," unless it was reviewed by the Director of Naval Intelligence) remains one possible reason for Pollard's remaining in prison despite a change in U.S. parole laws.[17]

Before sentencing, as noted above, Secretary Weinberger delivered a 46-page classified memorandum to the sentencing judge. According to a pro-Pollard ACLU amicus brief,[18] Wolf Blitzer,[19] former U.S. District Court Judge George N. Leighton (see below) and even Pollard's own website[20] the contents of the memo were shown to Pollard's attorneys at the time. On the day before sentencing, Weinberger delivered a supplemental four-page memorandum to the judge. Pollard and his attorneys were shown the supplemental memorandum only briefly before sentencing. Pollard alleges that, in the memorandum, Weinberger accused him of treason and suggested a lifetime prison sentence.

Pollard never faced treason charges and was convicted within the boundaries of the charge he pleaded guilty to, although many speculate that the Weinberger memorandum outlined (and the classified memorandum to the judge detailed) treasonous activities by Pollard, due to the overwhelming assertion by U.S. defense and intelligence officials that Pollard should stay imprisoned for life.

The primary investigator in the Pollard case, Ron Olive, stated in his 2006 book Capturing Jonathan Pollard, that Pollard offered classified material to four other countries besides Israel, including Pakistan. Seven former U.S. secretaries of Defense have written petitions to keep Pollard imprisoned for life, and CIA chief George Tenet threatened to resign when the issue of releasing Pollard was put forward by the Clinton administration.[21]
"
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: cjd on November 26, 2008, 07:10:28 PM
Sadly most folks here in America don't know anything in the least about Jonathan Pollard so unless the system itself of the small minority familiar with his case speak out he will be in jail for the duration. I take a dim view of people that try to undermine the America but in Pollard's case I think its high time he was freed and allowed to make aliyah. We had a president (Clinton) who did far worse when he saw fit to give sensitive rocket guidance information to Red China for campaign donations and it did not raise so much as an eyebrow by the American people. I think we may have missed the boat in petitioning President Bush to consider pardoning Pollard. Still and all we have over a month to make Bush aware of Pollard's case. It's really now or never since Bushes successor will not have any consideration for Pollard's case.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: GodGunsAndGlory on November 26, 2008, 07:28:46 PM
You guys have to understand my position before throwing out the Nazi word...

You can't be letting other countries, whether they are allies or not be having people go into the intelligence community to steal information. The US needs to show it won't tolerate any thing of that sort.

I doubt you guys would be saying the same thing if the UK or some other ally did the same thing, which is hypocritical.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: muman613 on November 26, 2008, 07:31:32 PM
You guys have to understand my position before throwing out the Nazi word...

You can't be letting other countries, whether they are allies or not be having people go into the intelligence community to steal information. The US needs to show it won't tolerate any thing of that sort.

I doubt you guys would be saying the same thing if the UK or some other ally did the same thing, which is hypocritical.

The punishment should not be cruel and unusual... In this case there are other 'spies' who have revealed more damaging information yet were not given life sentences. For this case, which he was convicted for 'conspiracy to deliver national defense information to a foreign government' the usual sentence was 2-4 years... Because Weinerberger suddenly called it treason {and he was NEVER charged with or found guilty of TREASON} he was given the life sentence... Very cruel and unusual!

muman613
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Ulli on November 26, 2008, 07:32:58 PM
You guys have to understand my position before throwing out the Nazi word...

You can't be letting other countries, whether they are allies or not be having people go into the intelligence community to steal information. The US needs to show it won't tolerate any thing of that sort.

I doubt you guys would be saying the same thing if the UK or some other ally did the same thing, which is hypocritical.

The punishment should not be cruel and unusual... In this case there are other 'spies' who have revealed more damaging information yet were not given life sentences. For this case, which he was convicted for 'conspiracy to deliver national defense information to a foreign government' the usual sentence was 2-4 years... Because Weinerberger suddenly called it treason {and he was NEVER charged with or found guilty of TREASON} he was given the life sentence... Very cruel and unusual!

muman613


Yes this is true.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on November 26, 2008, 10:08:40 PM
Stay in jail.

The last thing I want is for our intelligence to be a open book just because the spy is giving it to an ally.

The last thing I want is godless British people with no morals selling US intelligence to Mussies.

Reagan had nothing to do with the case, Pollard never appealed until 1990 and he PLEAD guilty he admitted guilt, therefore if he ever thought he never did anything wrong, why did he plea guilty?

Paul Hill never plead guilty because he knew what he did was right, so why wouldn't Pollard if he thought what he was doing was right plea guilty?
Time to ban yet another troll...
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on November 26, 2008, 10:10:29 PM
Are you alright GNG?!
You're begging to sound like a down right Nazi colaborator.
I second that. I predict that any moment Shlomo is going to give this schmuck the royal boot.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on November 26, 2008, 10:13:57 PM
The primary investigator in the Pollard case, Ron Olive, stated in his 2006 book Capturing Jonathan Pollard, that Pollard offered classified material to four other countries besides Israel, including Pakistan.
Bulls%&t.

Someone's rarin' to join his boss the Gipper in the Lake of Fire.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on November 26, 2008, 10:16:39 PM
You guys have to understand my position before throwing out the Nazi word...

You can't be letting other countries, whether they are allies or not be having people go into the intelligence community to steal information. The US needs to show it won't tolerate any thing of that sort.

I doubt you guys would be saying the same thing if the UK or some other ally did the same thing, which is hypocritical.
Save it for StørmFrønt. Only a goosestepping WN would be sad that Saddam Hussein's nuclear facilities were destroyed by the Israeli air force (thanks to Pollard doing the right thing).
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Xoce on November 26, 2008, 10:19:32 PM
Why the animosity towards Reagan?
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: q_q_ on November 26, 2008, 11:00:36 PM
You guys have to understand my position before throwing out the Nazi word...

You can't be letting other countries, whether they are allies or not be having people go into the intelligence community to steal information. The US needs to show it won't tolerate any thing of that sort.

I doubt you guys would be saying the same thing if the UK or some other ally did the same thing, which is hypocritical.


if you do a crime you can expect to pay a price. (even if the crime was a moral one)

But Jonathan Pollard has served FAR more time than others that have committed worse offences(uk we spell it with a c).

Pollard passed information to an ally.  Others have passed information to an enemy and served less prison time.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Rubystars on November 26, 2008, 11:29:01 PM
You guys have to understand my position before throwing out the Nazi word...

You can't be letting other countries, whether they are allies or not be having people go into the intelligence community to steal information. The US needs to show it won't tolerate any thing of that sort.

I doubt you guys would be saying the same thing if the UK or some other ally did the same thing, which is hypocritical.
Save it for StørmFrønt. Only a goosestepping WN would be sad that Saddam Hussein's nuclear facilities were destroyed by the Israeli air force (thanks to Pollard doing the right thing).

C.F. I think you're going a little far in attacking him. Not everyone understands the whole story here or why it's JTF's position that Pollard be freed.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Xoce on November 26, 2008, 11:46:43 PM
CF why are you so anti Reagan?
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on November 26, 2008, 11:54:03 PM
Because he was behind the prosecution of Pollard. This Saudi-fellating, Jew-hating beast was behind the prosecution of Pollard from the start. Reagan had a horrible track record on Israel. Don't forget that he sent Marines to Lebanon in order to protect the PLO headquarters and Hezbollah from the Israeli army. In the process, he got 250 Marines murdered.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Dan on November 26, 2008, 11:55:32 PM
You guys have to understand my position before throwing out the Nazi word...

You can't be letting other countries, whether they are allies or not be having people go into the intelligence community to steal information. The US needs to show it won't tolerate any thing of that sort.

I doubt you guys would be saying the same thing if the UK or some other ally did the same thing, which is hypocritical.
Save it for StørmFrønt. Only a goosestepping WN would be sad that Saddam Hussein's nuclear facilities were destroyed by the Israeli air force (thanks to Pollard doing the right thing).

C.F. I think you're going a little far in attacking him. Not everyone understands the whole story here or why it's JTF's position that Pollard be freed.
C.F. is right to be critical of GNG, JTF's position on Johnatan Pollard is Clear and without any doubt.
I think that GNG is a [censored] or a closet nazi who wanted to stir trouble again on the forum, he should be put on a short leash.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Rubystars on November 27, 2008, 01:21:18 AM
We'll have to wait and see.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: t_h_j on November 27, 2008, 01:38:36 AM
Ronald Reagan (who, praise G-d, is being boiled in the lake of fire as we speak) did this to Pollard as a favor to his Saudi masters.

pure, uncalled for idiocy
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Raulmarrio2000 on November 27, 2008, 02:02:42 AM
According to what I've read, Pollard simply deliverad information to Israel which was vital for Israeli security. Giving information to an ally without permission is a minor crime under US Law. Even if he was sure he did what is morally correct, he still plead guilty of violating US Law. Morality and Law not always go together. But the penalty for him would be four years in jail at worst, and the US gave him a life sentence!!!
And even if he really deserved a lafe sentecnce under US Law, Govts usually pardon offender in bilateral agreements. Israel released several terrorists who deserve life prison at least, jut to seek "peace". And it was endorsed by the US. Why cannot US president pardon him, and send him to Israel???
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on November 27, 2008, 02:12:54 AM
pure, uncalled for idiocy

*shh... pipe down everybody. I think a Pat Buchanan supporter was trying to squeak something, but I couldn't make it out...*
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on November 27, 2008, 02:16:18 AM
We'll have to wait and see.
What's to wait and see? This individual has deliberately chosen to spell out G-d's name in his screenname, which is offensive to Jews. Shlomo will lay a beatdown on his rear any minute now.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Taylor on November 27, 2008, 03:23:31 AM
Because he was behind the prosecution of Pollard. This Saudi-fellating, Jew-hating beast was behind the prosecution of Pollard from the start. Reagan had a horrible track record on Israel. Don't forget that he sent Marines to Lebanon in order to protect the PLO headquarters and Hezbollah from the Israeli army. In the process, he got 250 Marines murdered.

I think Reagan did more good then bad. What do you think?

FREE POLLARD NOW!
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: t_h_j on November 27, 2008, 04:21:02 PM
Because he was behind the prosecution of Pollard. This Saudi-fellating, Jew-hating beast was behind the prosecution of Pollard from the start. Reagan had a horrible track record on Israel. Don't forget that he sent Marines to Lebanon in order to protect the PLO headquarters and Hezbollah from the Israeli army. In the process, he got 250 Marines murdered.

I think Reagan did more good then bad. What do you think?

FREE POLLARD NOW!

it's clear what he thinks.  Once again, CF calls for someone to suffer.  He seems to do that with everyone he disagrees with.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on November 27, 2008, 07:01:25 PM
You guys have to understand my position before throwing out the Nazi word...

You can't be letting other countries, whether they are allies or not be having people go into the intelligence community to steal information. The US needs to show it won't tolerate any thing of that sort.

I doubt you guys would be saying the same thing if the UK or some other ally did the same thing, which is hypocritical.

The only hypocrite here is you (and people who think like you).   EVERY COUNTRY is spying on every other country.  Get that through your thick head.   In some cases agents give over information to ENEMY nations, even information that compromises US security to those enemy nations, and THEY don't get anywhere near the sentence that Pollard got.     And here, Pollard spied for not an enemy nation but AN ALLY, and he didn't give any information that put the US at any kind of security risk.   He merely provided Israel with information that was vital to its security, which the US had agreed to help provide them with anyway but were withholding it for obviously antisemitic reasons.   The same kind of reasons used by people like you who try to promote the idea that Pollard should remain in jail, chas veshalom.      May he be freed soon and let's see if you eat your words.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Ulli on November 27, 2008, 07:06:52 PM
I have heard somewhere this statement:

The gentile is excused, but the Jew is hung.

Sad but often true.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on November 27, 2008, 08:20:17 PM
it's clear what he thinks.  Once again, CF calls for someone to suffer.  He seems to do that with everyone he disagrees with.
If your friend Buchanan passed intelligence to the country that he is loyal to, Russia, I guarantee you he'd be sentenced to a lot less than Pollard was.

Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanson, who reported a dozen-odd CIA agents in Russia to the KGB, got lighter sentences than Pollard. But I'm sure you think they were framed up by a "Zionist conspiracy."
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on November 27, 2008, 08:29:57 PM
The only hypocrite here is you (and people who think like you).   EVERY COUNTRY is spying on every other country.  Get that through your thick head.   In some cases agents give over information to ENEMY nations, even information that compromises US security to those enemy nations, and THEY don't get anywhere near the sentence that Pollard got.     And here, Pollard spied for not an enemy nation but AN ALLY, and he didn't give any information that put the US at any kind of security risk.   He merely provided Israel with information that was vital to its security, which the US had agreed to help provide them with anyway but were withholding it for obviously antisemitic reasons.   The same kind of reasons used by people like you who try to promote the idea that Pollard should remain in jail, chas veshalom.      May he be freed soon and let's see if you eat your words.
Very true and well-stated, but don't expect Nazis and Pat Buchanan supporters (not that those aren't one and the same) to listen to logic and reason against their Jew-theories. Just report SatanGunsandGlory's posts. I'm going to right now.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Lisa on November 27, 2008, 09:13:25 PM
Quote
[size 9pt]The only hypocrite here is you (and people who think like you).   EVERY COUNTRY is spying on every other country.  Get that through your thick head.   In some cases agents give over information to ENEMY nations, even information that compromises US security to those enemy nations, and THEY don't get anywhere near the sentence that Pollard got.     And here, Pollard spied for not an enemy nation but AN ALLY, and he didn't give any information that put the US at any kind of security risk.   He merely provided Israel with information that was vital to its security, which the US had agreed to help provide them with anyway but were withholding it for obviously antisemitic reasons.   The same kind of reasons used by people like you who try to promote the idea that Pollard should remain in jail, chas veshalom.      May he be freed soon and let's see if you eat your words. [/size 9pt]


KWR is absolutely right.  JTF fully supports Jonathan Pollard.  Therefore any comments about how he should stay in jail will NOT be tolerated here. 
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: t_h_j on November 29, 2008, 06:32:58 PM
it's clear what he thinks.  Once again, CF calls for someone to suffer.  He seems to do that with everyone he disagrees with.
If your friend Buchanan passed intelligence to the country that he is loyal to, Russia, I guarantee you he'd be sentenced to a lot less than Pollard was.

Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanson, who reported a dozen-odd CIA agents in Russia to the KGB, got lighter sentences than Pollard. But I'm sure you think they were framed up by a "Zionist conspiracy."

another stupid post from CF.  What else is new
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on November 29, 2008, 08:54:28 PM
another stupid post from CF.  What else is new
I notice you didn't deny what I said! ;-)
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: q_q_ on November 30, 2008, 01:14:24 AM
another stupid post from CF.  What else is new
I notice you didn't deny what I said! ;-)

Normally when you make your ridiculous comments, then say

"You didn't Deny it"

you don't follow it with a wink

You have here though. This looks like a defence tactic on your part (so this time you can say that you were only joking).

Of course, it's no defence to the retort, "never a truer word spoken in jest", but it leaves you some wiggle room that you forgot to leave yourself in the past.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on November 30, 2008, 01:21:26 AM
Normally when you make your ridiculous comments, then say

"You didn't Deny it"

you don't follow it with a wink

You have here though. This looks like a defence tactic on your part (so this time you can say that you were only joking).

Of course, it's no defence to the retort, "never a truer word spoken in jest", but it leaves you some wiggle room that you forgot to leave yourself in the past.

Umm, what is your point, dude?
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: muman613 on November 30, 2008, 01:22:14 AM
Normally when you make your ridiculous comments, then say

"You didn't Deny it"

you don't follow it with a wink

You have here though. This looks like a defence tactic on your part (so this time you can say that you were only joking).

Of course, it's no defence to the retort, "never a truer word spoken in jest", but it leaves you some wiggle room that you forgot to leave yourself in the past.

Umm, what is your point, dude?

CF,

Nevermind q_q_, he enjoys giving people a hard time for no reason besides his own ego...

muman613
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on November 30, 2008, 01:25:08 AM
CF,

Nevermind q_q_, he enjoys giving people a hard time for no reason besides his own ego...

muman613


Yeah, I kind of picked up on that. ;-) Hence my deliberately simple question in response.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: GodGunsAndGlory on November 30, 2008, 02:25:42 AM
pure, uncalled for idiocy

*shh... pipe down everybody. I think a Pat Buchanan supporter was trying to squeak something, but I couldn't make it out...*

Please show me Reagan's involvement in the Pollard case.

Remember that the correlation of Reagan being president does not imply causation.

So pipe down until you can back up your idiotic claims.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: muman613 on November 30, 2008, 02:30:18 AM
pure, uncalled for idiocy

*shh... pipe down everybody. I think a Pat Buchanan supporter was trying to squeak something, but I couldn't make it out...*

Please show me Reagan's involvement in the Pollard case.

Remember that the correlation of Reagan being president does not imply causation.

So pipe down until you can back up your idiotic claims.

Caspar Weinberger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspar_Weinberger

Ronald Reagans Secretary of State was intimately involved in the persecution {sic} of Jonathan Pollard.

Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: GodGunsAndGlory on November 30, 2008, 02:54:51 AM
pure, uncalled for idiocy

*shh... pipe down everybody. I think a Pat Buchanan supporter was trying to squeak something, but I couldn't make it out...*

Please show me Reagan's involvement in the Pollard case.

Remember that the correlation of Reagan being president does not imply causation.

So pipe down until you can back up your idiotic claims.

Caspar Weinberger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspar_Weinberger

Ronald Reagans Secretary of State was intimately involved in the persecution {sic} of Jonathan Pollard.



Prosecution of someone who broke the law.

It is unconstitutional to treat anyone differently under the law and the non prosecution of Pollard could be in the future used as an excuse by lawyers to not prosecute spies from other countries whether they are a ally or not.

Suggest you read up on the 9th amendment, because you sound like a leftist who is ignorant of the constitution. Not prosecuting Pollard would send the message you are allowed to spy on America and to disparage that right from others would be unconstitutional.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: muman613 on November 30, 2008, 03:54:44 AM

<snip>

Prosecution of someone who broke the law.

It is unconstitutional to treat anyone differently under the law and the non prosecution of Pollard could be in the future used as an excuse by lawyers to not prosecute spies from other countries whether they are a ally or not.

Suggest you read up on the 9th amendment, because you sound like a leftist who is ignorant of the constitution. Not prosecuting Pollard would send the message you are allowed to spy on America and to disparage that right from others would be unconstitutional.

GGG,

You must not be familiar with the case. There was a plea agreement and it did not include Treason. Caspar Weinberger decided at the last minute to throw in Treason. The crime for which he pleaded to was only a 2 - 4 year punishment. What Caspar Weinberger did was not ethical nor was it legal, but the defense at the time was not to bright.

Maybe you should read up on the case then we can talk.



http://www.jonathanpollard.org/

http://www.jonathanpollard.org/court2000.htm

Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard
Pollard's plea discussions with the Government sought both to minimize his chances of receiving a life sentence and to enable Anne Pollard to plead as well, which the Government was otherwise unwilling to let her do. The government, however, was prepared to offer Anne Pollard a plea agreement only after Jonathan Pollard consented to assist the government in its damage assessment and submitted to polygraph examinations and interviews with FBI agents and Department of Justice attorneys. Accordingly, over a period of several months, Pollard cooperated with the Government's investigation, and in late May 1986, the Government offered him a plea agreement, which he accepted.

By the terms of that agreement, Pollard was bound to plead guilty to one count of conspiracy to deliver national defense information to a foreign government,[15] which carried a maximum prison term of life, and to cooperate fully with the Government's ongoing investigation. He promised not to disseminate any information concerning his crimes without submitting to pre-clearance by the Director of Naval Intelligence. His agreement further provided that failure by Anne Pollard to adhere to the terms of her agreement entitled the Government to void his agreement, and her agreement contained a mirror-image provision.

In return for Pollard's plea, the Government promised not to charge him with additional crimes, entered into a plea agreement with Anne Pollard, and made several specific representations that are very much at issue in this case. The critical provisions are paragraphs 4(a) and 4(b) of the agreement, in which the Government "agreed as follows":

    (a) When [Pollard] appears before the Court for sentencing for the offense to which he has agreed to plead guilty, the Government will bring to the Court's attention the nature, extent and value of his cooperation and testimony. Because of the classified nature of the information Mr. Pollard has provided to the Government, it is understood that particular representations concerning his cooperation may have to be made to the Court in camera. In general, however, the Government has agreed to represent that the information Mr. Pollard has provided is of considerable value to the Government's damage assessment analysis, its investigation of this criminal case, and the enforcement of the espionage laws.

    (b) Notwithstanding Mr. Pollard's cooperation, at the time of sentencing the Government will recommend that the Court impose a sentence of a substantial period of incarceration and a monetary fine. The Government retains full right of allocution at all times concerning the facts and circumstances of the offenses committed by Mr. Pollard, and will be free to correct any misstatements of fact at the time of sentencing, including representations of the defendant and his counsel in regard to the nature and extent of Mr. Pollard's cooperation. Moreover, Mr. Pollard understands that, while the Court may take his cooperation into account in determining whether or not to impose a sentence of life imprisonment, this agreement cannot and does not limit the court's discretion to impose the maximum sentence.[citation needed]

On June 4, 1986 Jonathan Pollard pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to deliver national defense information to a foreign government. Before sentencing, and in violation of the plea agreement, Pollard and his wife Anne gave defiant media interviews in which they defended their spying, and attempted to rally American Jews to their cause. In a 60 Minutes interview, Anne said, "I feel my husband and I did what we were expected to do, and what our moral obligation was as Jews, what our moral obligation was as human beings, and I have no regrets about that".[9] Three weeks before Pollard's sentencing, Wolf Blitzer, at the time a Jerusalem Post correspondent, conducted a jail-cell interview with Pollard and penned an article which also ran in The Washington Post headlined, "Pollard: Not A Bumbler, but Israel's Master Spy." published on February 15, 1987.[16] Pollard told Blitzer about some of the information he provided the Israelis: reconnaissance satellite photography of Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) headquarters in Tunisia, specific capabilities of Libya's air defenses, and "the pick of U.S. intelligence about Arab and Islamic conventional and unconventional military activity, from Morocco to Pakistan and every country in between. This included both 'friendly' and 'unfriendly' Arab countries."

According to an opinion piece by Joseph C. Goulden, the breaking of the plea agreement (in which Pollard swore not to disclose classified material he obtained while working for the Navy and swore not to "provide information for purposes of publication or dissemination," unless it was reviewed by the Director of Naval Intelligence) remains one possible reason for Pollard's remaining in prison despite a change in U.S. parole laws.[17]

Before sentencing, as noted above, Secretary Weinberger delivered a 46-page classified memorandum to the sentencing judge. According to a pro-Pollard ACLU amicus brief,[18] Wolf Blitzer,[19] former U.S. District Court Judge George N. Leighton (see below) and even Pollard's own website[20] the contents of the memo were shown to Pollard's attorneys at the time. On the day before sentencing, Weinberger delivered a supplemental four-page memorandum to the judge. Pollard and his attorneys were shown the supplemental memorandum only briefly before sentencing. Pollard alleges that, in the memorandum, Weinberger accused him of treason and suggested a lifetime prison sentence.

Pollard never faced treason charges and was convicted within the boundaries of the charge he pleaded guilty to, although many speculate that the Weinberger memorandum outlined (and the classified memorandum to the judge detailed) treasonous activities by Pollard, due to the overwhelming assertion by U.S. defense and intelligence officials that Pollard should stay imprisoned for life.

The primary investigator in the Pollard case, Ron Olive, stated in his 2006 book Capturing Jonathan Pollard, that Pollard offered classified material to four other countries besides Israel, including Pakistan. Seven former U.S. secretaries of Defense have written petitions to keep Pollard imprisoned for life, and CIA chief George Tenet threatened to resign when the issue of releasing Pollard was put forward by the Clinton administration.[21]
Maybe we can talk when you are a bit more knowledgeable about the facts. Pollard has been in prison for 23 years now, far longer than any other person found guilty of this crime.

Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: muman613 on November 30, 2008, 04:14:16 AM
More info concerning the Pollard case ( from http://www.jonathanpollard.org/facts.htm )

   1. Jonathan Pollard was a civilian American Naval intelligence analyst. In the mid 1980's (circa 1983-1984), Pollard discovered that information vital to Israel's security was being deliberately withheld by certain elements within the U.S. national security establishment.

   2. Israel was legally entitled to this vital security information according to a 1983 Memorandum of Understanding between the two countries.

   3. The information being withheld from Israel included Syrian, Iraqi, Libyan and Iranian nuclear, chemical, and biological warfare capabilities - being developed for use against Israel. It also included information on ballistic missile development by these countries and information on planned terrorist attacks against Israeli civilian targets.

   4. When Pollard discovered this suppression of information and asked his superiors about it, he was told to "mind his own business", and that "Jews get nervous talking about poison gas; they don't need to know."

      He also learned that the objective of cutting off the flow of information to Israel was to severely curtail Israel's ability to act independently in defense of her own interests.

   5. Pollard was painfully aware that Israeli lives were being put in jeopardy as a result of this undeclared intelligence embargo. He did everything he possibly could to stop this covert policy and to have the legal flow of information to Israel restored. When his efforts met no success, he began to give the information to Israel directly.

   6. Jonathan Pollard was an ideologue, not a mercenary. The FBI concluded after nine months of polygraphing that Pollard acted for ideological reasons only, not for profit. This fact was recognized by the sentencing judge who declined to fine Pollard. (See the addendum for further details.)

      Furthermore, on May 11, 1998, Israel formally acknowledged Jonathan Pollard had been a bona fide Israeli agent. This fact wiped out any remaining doubt about Jonathan Pollard's motives. Being an official agent is, by definition, the polar opposite of being a mercenary.

   7. In 1985, his actions were discovered by the U.S. government. His instructions from Israel were to seek refuge in the Israeli embassy in Washington. When Pollard and his former wife sought refuge there, they were at first received and then summarily thrown out into the waiting arms of the FBI.

   8. Jonathan Pollard never had a trial. At the request of both the U.S. and Israeli governments, he entered into a plea agreement, which spared both governments a long, difficult, expensive and potentially embarrassing trial.

   9. Jonathan Pollard fulfilled his end of the plea agreement, cooperating fully with the prosecution.

  10. Nevertheless, Pollard received a life sentence and a recommendation that he never be paroled - in complete violation of the plea agreement he had reached with the government.

  11. Jonathan Pollard was never indicted for harming the United States.

  12. Jonathan Pollard was never indicted for compromising codes, agents, or war plans.

  13. Jonathan Pollard was never charged with treason. [Legally, treason is a charge that is only applicable when one spies for an enemy state in time of war.]

  14. Jonathan Pollard was indicted on only one charge: one count of passing classified information to an ally, without intent to harm the United States.

  15.

      Prior to sentencing, then-Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger delivered a 46-page classified memorandum to the sentencing judge. Since then, neither Pollard nor any of his cleared attorneys have ever been allowed to access the memorandum to challenge the false charges it contains-a clear violation of Pollard's constitutional rights.

      The day before sentencing, Weinberger delivered a four-page supplemental memorandum to the sentencing judge. In it, he falsely accused Pollard of treason. Also in the supplemental memorandum, Weinberger advocated a life sentence in clear violation of Pollard's plea agreement. The implication that follows from Weinberger's false characterization of Pollard's offense as "treason" is that the country Pollard served, Israel, is an enemy state.

  16. Pollard was shown the supplemental Weinberger memorandum only once, just moments before sentencing - hardly adequate time to prepare an appropriate defense to rebut the false accusations in it.

  17. No one else in the history of the United States has ever received a life sentence for passing classified information to an ally - only Jonathan Pollard. The median sentence for this offense is two to four years. Even agents who have committed far more serious offenses on behalf of hostile nations have not received such a harsh sentence.

  18. Pollard's attorney never appealed from the life sentence. The time to file for such an appeal was within ten days of sentencing. Years later, with a different attorney, Pollard filed a habeas corpus challenge to the sentence.

      The Court of Appeals, in a two-to-one decision, rejected the challenge, largely on procedural grounds.

      The majority placed heavy emphasis on the failure to appeal from the life sentence in a timely manner, and on the resulting far heavier burden faced by Pollard in seeking to challenge the sentence via habeas corpus. [Note: "Habeas corpus" is a procedure by which an incarcerated person may bring a court challenge to the legality of his or her incarceration - often long after the underlying case has been concluded.]

      In a dissenting opinion, Court of Appeals Judge Stephen Williams called the case "a fundamental miscarriage of justice," and wrote that he would have ordered that Pollard's sentence be vacated.

  19. In November 1995, Israel granted Jonathan Pollard Israeli citizenship. The official presentation took place in January of 1996. This publicly signaled to the U.S. Israel's willingness to accept full responsibility for Pollard.

  20. U.S. government sources falsely accuse Pollard in the media of passing "rooms full of classified information" and "hundreds of thousands of documents" to Israel. This volume of information is an absurdity! Pollard would have needed to make numerous "drops" using a moving van to have transferred such a large volume of information. In actual fact, Jonathan Pollard made a grand total of eleven "drops" to the Israelis, using only a small briefcase to hold the documents.

  21. The government used an insidious formula to exaggerate the volume of information that Jonathan Pollard passed to Israel. The formula was: if only one page or a single sentence of a document was passed to the Israelis, it was counted as if the whole document had been transmitted. Even referenced documents and sources were counted as having been transmitted in toto. Using this calculation, a single page could be counted as 50 hard-bound 500 page volumes!

  22. There is no Mr. "X".

      The CIA claim that another highly-placed spy in the U.S. had to exist in order to give Jonathan Pollard his highly specific tasking orders is a complete fabrication. To understand how Pollard was tasked by Israel to secure specific documents, see: Was there another U.S. spy tasking Pollard? - Mr. ‘X' Exposed.

  23. On May 12, 1998 , in the same statement in which the Government of Israel publicly acknowledged Jonathan Pollard as an Israeli agent, it accepted full responsibility for him, and indicated its commitment to securing his release and repatriation to Israel.

  24. Jonathan Pollard has repeatedly expressed his remorse publicly and in private letters to the President and others. He regrets having broken the law, and is sorry he did not find a legal means to act upon his concerns for Israel. (See Remorse Page.)

  25. Jonathan Pollard has been openly linked to the Middle East Peace Process since 1995.

      The Israeli government recognized long ago that Jonathan's sentence was unjust, that the documents he delivered to Israel did not remotely cause the damage that the prosecution claimed but never proved. As a result of this recognition, various Israeli administrations have negotiated, as a matter of basic fairness, to secure Jonathan's release.

      Since 1995, within the context of the peace process, the US has repeatedly exploited the plight of Jonathan Pollard to extract heavy concessions from Israel.

      However despite express promises made by the United States to Israel, Jonathan Pollard remains in jail.

  26. It was the late Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin who, in 1995, first began openly to negotiate for Jonathan's release as part of the peace process.

      Although President Clinton promised Prime Minister Rabin that he would release Jonathan as part of a Middle East peace settlement, the President refused to honor his promise after Rabin was assassinated.

  27. Rabin's successor, Prime Minister Shimon Peres, continued to link Jonathan to the peace process, and even went so far as to include a spy swap proposal as part of the deal for Pollard's release.

  28. The Wye Plantation summit is a prime example of U.S. exploitation of Jonathan Pollard.

      Both before and again during the Wye summit negotiations in the fall of 1998, President Clinton promised to release Jonathan Pollard. Pollard was the deal-maker at Wye which enabled the accords to be completed.

  29. At the last minute, with the eyes of the world focused on the Wye Accords signing ceremony which was about to take place in Washington, Clinton reneged on Pollard's release, creating a storm of negative publicity for Israel.

  30. How the Wye fiasco came about:

      In September, 1998, just before the mid-term Congressional elections, President Clinton (who at the time was facing impeachment hearings and in need of a foreign policy PR victory) asked Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu to attend a three-way summit with the Palestinians at Wye River, Maryland.

      Clinton knew that a successful summit at Wye just before the Congressional elections would be good not only for his image, but would also reap great political benefits for the Democrats in their bid to regain control of Congress. As an inducement to Netanyahu, Clinton promised to release Jonathan Pollard within the context of the summit.

      Understanding the value of Jonathan Pollard for his own re-election bid, and needing him as a sweetener to sell any kind of "peace" deal to the Israeli people, Netanyahu ignored the entreaties of Republican friends like Newt Gingrich and agreed to attend the summit. (Gingrich would later repay Netanyahu by leading the Republican charge of slander and lies against Jonathan Pollard.)

  31. Once the Wye summit was underway, Clinton quickly "forgot" his promise to free Jonathan Pollard and there was little Netanyahu could do.

  32. Talks at Wye broke down over the release of Palestinian murderers with Jewish blood on their hands and over Israel's request for the extradition of Ghazi Jabali, the chief of Police in Gaza who was wanted for his role in planning and executing terrorist attacks in Israel.

  33. To break the stalemate, the Palestinians suggested Jonathan Pollard as the solution. They proposed that Pollard be sold to Netanyahu once again: the US would give Jonathan to Israel in return for Israel's freeing of hundreds of Palestinian terrorists and immunity for Ghazi Jabali.

  34. The US and Israel agreed to the Palestinian plan to swap Pollard for terrorists and murderers.

      President Clinton personally worked out the details of the deal in a late-night private session with a Palestinian and an Israeli representative.

  35. According to the deal, Prime Minister Netanyahu was to receive a side letter from President Clinton the next morning (one of approximately 30 side letters the Americans had promised) guaranteeing Pollard's release for November 11, 1998, one week after the US House elections.

      The Pollard negotiation was the deal-maker at Wye which allowed the summit to be successfully wrapped up and a signing ceremony to be planned for the next morning in Washington, on Friday October 23, 1998.

  36. Only hours before the signing ceremony, P.M. Netanyahu received all of the American side-letters that had been promised to him, except one - the one guaranteeing the release of Jonathan Pollard.

      Netanyahu threatened not to attend the signing ceremony unless he got the Pollard side letter. Clinton said, "Trust me." Netanyahu, knowing he was about to be double-crossed by Clinton over Pollard for the second time, refused.

      Netanyahu demanded that in the absence of a side letter of guarantee, Pollard should be freed into his custody immediately, or no signing ceremony. Arik Sharon supported Netanyahu and they threatened to leave Wye without signing the accords.

  37. In order to take the pressure off of President Clinton, CIA chief George Tenet quickly leaked the news of Pollard's imminent release to the media in a deliberate - and ultimately successful - attempt to torpedo the deal.

      He sent emissaries to Capitol Hill to hold emergency meetings with leading Senators and Congressmen to enlist their support in publicly denouncing Pollard's release. Many lies were told by the CIA emissaries about Jonathan Pollard to convince the legislators to act swiftly and in unison. Believing the lies, the legislators complied and began an unprecedented series of public actions to prevent the release of Jonathan Pollard.

  38. Meanwhile at Wye, under heavy pressure and still fearful that Netanyahu would not back down, Clinton quickly negotiated a private fall-back position with Netanyahu: Clinton would publicly promise to do a "speedy review"of the Pollard Case and he would use that review to free Pollard a few months later, parallel to the release of the 750 Palestinian terrorists who were part of the price Israel had agreed to pay for Pollard.

      Under heavy public pressure and betrayed by his own Minister of Defense, Yitzhak Mordecai*, who closed ranks with Clinton, Netanyahu folded and accepted this private deal. The signing ceremony was held in Washington as scheduled. *(Mordecai himself is now on trial in Israel in 2001 for sexual assault.)

  39. Netanyahu's capitulation at Wye, the public spectacle of his being brought to heel by the Americans, and the lopsided deal he brought home from Wye now that Pollard was no longer perceived to be a part of it, would shortly cost him his premiership.

  40. After Wye, the White House falsely accused Netanyahu of having injected Pollard into the Wye summit at the last moment.

      However, eye witnesses to the Pollard deal at Wye, including the Israeli and the Palestinian who had negotiated the deal with Clinton and the former Israeli Cabinet Secretary, all later contradicted the White House version of events and affirmed that President Clinton had committed himself to the release of Jonathan Pollard as an integral part of the Wye Accords.

          Note: Prime Minister Netanyahu was the first prime minster of Israel to agree to free Palestinian terrorists with Jewish blood on their hands. That is the price the Americans demanded for Pollard at Wye. To this day, this represents a keen embarrassment for Netanyahu and his party, even more so since he did not receive Pollard but the Palestinian murders were released nonetheless. That is why no official source from the Netanyahu government ever wants to publicly admit to it. They keep the details to a minimum, but all concur that Pollard's freedom was bought and paid for by "concessions"at Wye.

  41. When Netanyahu returned to Israel after Wye, he created a firestorm of publicity by releasing 200 Palestinian common criminals from Israeli prisons.

      The Palestinians were outraged, and insisted that these common criminals were not the prisoners that they had bargained for at Wye. The Americans angrily protested. Netanyahu reminded the Americans that the Wye Accords do not specify exactly which prisoners Israel must release. Critics wondered if the Prime Minister had lost his mind to antagonize the Americans this way.

      Only those close to Prime Minister Netanyahu understood that this was Netanyahu's private, pointed reminder to Bill Clinton that if he was thinking of double-crossing him yet a third time over Pollard, he should think again. No Pollard, no release for the Palestinian murderers and terrorists.

      Unfortunately for Jonathan Pollard, Netanyahu's government fell before he was able to act on this.

  42. In a meeting with Netanyahu right after his electoral defeat in the Spring of 1999, Jonathan Pollard's wife, Esther, received assurances from the former prime minister that the new prime minister, Ehud Barak, had been fully briefed about what had been agreed to at Wye and about the fall-back position; that is to say, Israel had yet to free the 750 terrorists with blood on their hands and was still supposed to receive Pollard home in a "parallel gesture" from President Clinton.

  43. Not long after Barak took office, the 750 Palestinian murderers and terrorists walked out of prison as free men. Jonathan Pollard remained in his American jail cell.

  44. In an attempt to justify Clinton's reneging at Wye, a story was leaked to the press that George Tenet, a Clinton appointee, had threatened to resign as head of the CIA if Pollard were released.

      The story, though not logical, sounded plausible and it became popular to cite the opposition of the American Intelligence community as the reason Clinton did not honor his commitment at Wye to free Pollard.

      This was soon exposed as the lame excuse it was when Clinton freed a group of unrepentant FALN terrorists in the fall of 1999, in an attempt to improve his wife's popularity with New York State's Hispanic community in her election bid for the Senate. (See Senate Race Page.)

      To this day, the same lame excuse continues to be used to justify the unjustifiable failure of Clinton to honor his commitment.

  45. In September of 1999, despite strenuous opposition from all of his government advisors and agencies, President Clinton freed 14 unrepentant Puerto Rican terrorists, members of the FALN, charged with bank robbery and various acts of terrorism, including over 130 bombings in the US, and the deaths of American police officers.

      Clinton ignored a solid wall of opposition from the Justice, Intelligence and Defense departments and Congress, invoked his powers of executive clemency and set the FALN terrorists free. In doing so, he unequivocally put the lie to the notion that any government agency might tie his hands or influence his decision in matters of clemency. (See FALN Page and Clemency Page.)

  46. More than two years elapsed after Wye. President Clinton did no review. Jonathan Pollard remained in prison while the US continued to extract Israeli concessions for his release.

  47. Those who still believed the myth that it was the American Intelligence Community that was tying the hands of President Clinton, also clung to the belief he would finally honor his many promises to release Jonathan Pollard - including the commitment he had made at Wye - at the end of his term, when he could do so without fear of political reprisal.

  48. Beginning in 1991 Rabbi Mordecai Eliyahu, the former Chief Rabbi of Israel, and Jonathan's rabbi, offered himself to the U.S. Justice Department as Jonathan's guarantor. The offer was ignored.

      Rabbi Eliyahu repeated the same offer every year after that in private letters to President Clinton.

      Every offer went unacknowledged until the fall of 2000, when Esther Pollard received a letter from the White House indicating that the President was aware of the former chief Rabbi's offer and that it would be part of the President's consideration in reaching a final decision on her husband's case.

  49. President Clinton never kept his promises.

      When he left office in January 2001, Jonathan Pollard was not included among those that to whom Clinton granted clemency:
          * in spite of his repeated express commitments to Israel to free Pollard in return for numerous heavy concessions
          * in spite of his commitment to free Pollard as an integral part if the Wye Accords
          * in spite of the appeals of the Jewish community, and
          * in spite of the gross injustices of the Pollard case which include:
                o a grossly disproportionate sentence
                o a broken plea agreement
                o use of secret evidence
                o a false charge of treason
                o ineffective assistance of counsel
                o ex parte communication between prosecutors and judge
                o a lack of due process
                o a sentencing procedure infected by false allegations and lies

      On his last day in office, Clinton granted clemency to 140 people. Many who received executive clemency had been convicted of very serious offenses, including murder, robbery and drug dealing. Some of those pardoned had served no prison time at all before being pardoned. Among those pardoned were Clinton's brother, and a former head of the CIA. (See Clemency Page.)

  50. In September of 2000, Jonathan Pollard's attorneys, Eliot Lauer and Jacques Semmelman, filed a motion in the US District Court of Columbia to vacate his sentence.

      The motion, supported by documentation, presents a compelling and very disturbing picture of serious government misconduct that went unchecked by Mr. Pollard's then-counsel. As a result of that misconduct, and as a result of his attorney's ineffectiveness Jonathan Pollard was sentenced to life in prison on the basis of false allegations, and under circumstances that violated his plea agreement. (See Legal Doc: Declaration of Jonathan Jay Pollard In Support of Motion for Resentencing. See also Legal Doc: Memorandum of Law in Support of Jonathan Jay Pollard's § 2255 Motion for Resentencing.)

  51. Since he was sentenced in 1987, none of Jonathan Pollard's security-cleared attorneys have been able to see the classified portions of the docket in order to challenge them in a court of law or to defend him in a clemency proceeding.

      In September of 2000, Jonathan Pollard's attorneys filed a separate motion requesting that attorney Eliot Lauer be allowed access to the secret portions of the Pollard court docket. (See Legal Doc: Motion to Unseal the Pollard Record.)

  52. On January 12, 2001, Chief Judge Norma Holloway Johnson denied the attorneys' request to allow Eliot Lauer access to the complete Pollard docket, upholding the government's claim that Lauer's seeing the secret portion of the record poses a risk to American national security.

      Both Lauer and Semmelman hold TOP SECRET level security clearances, which they obtained from the Justice Department in order to be eligible to see their client's full record.

      A motion for reconsideration was filed January 18, 2001. (See Legal Doc: Motion for Reconsideration of Court Order.)

  53. Amicus briefs supporting Jonathan's new legal cases have been filed by the American Civil Liberties Union, as well as by top American legal authorities. (See Amici Briefs on the Court Case Page.)

  54. Five Prime Ministers of Israel and three Presidents of Israel have requested Jonathan Pollard's release from the United States. Israel has pledged to be responsible for its agent who has served many years in prison under harsh conditions, and who has fully and repeatedly expressed his remorse. (See Remorse Page.)

      Between close friends and strong allies, that ought to be enough.
  55. On November 21, 2008, Jonathan Pollard entered the 24th year of his life sentence, with no end in sight.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Ulli on November 30, 2008, 02:09:11 PM
pure, uncalled for idiocy

*shh... pipe down everybody. I think a Pat Buchanan supporter was trying to squeak something, but I couldn't make it out...*

Please show me Reagan's involvement in the Pollard case.

Remember that the correlation of Reagan being president does not imply causation.

So pipe down until you can back up your idiotic claims.

GG&G it it right, that Pollard broke the law. I am shure he had to subscribe a security annex to his employment contract.

But do you really think that his crime was so heavy to let him die in prison?

I seriously doubt.

There are always levels in breach of regulations. And law has to account for it.
Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: muman613 on November 30, 2008, 03:15:00 PM
pure, uncalled for idiocy

*shh... pipe down everybody. I think a Pat Buchanan supporter was trying to squeak something, but I couldn't make it out...*

Please show me Reagan's involvement in the Pollard case.

Remember that the correlation of Reagan being president does not imply causation.

So pipe down until you can back up your idiotic claims.

GG&G it it right, that Pollard broke the law. I am shure he had to subscribe a security annex to his employment contract.

But do you really think that his crime was so heavy to let him die in prison?

I seriously doubt.

There are always levels in breach of regulations. And law has to account for it.

Pollard has shown and expressed remorse for what he did. He pleaded guilty to the charges to which he was charged. But he has done an inhumane amount of time for this crime. All because of a shifty move by Weinberger.

Title: Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on November 30, 2008, 05:38:31 PM

Prosecution of someone who broke the law.

It is unconstitutional to treat anyone differently under the law and the non prosecution of Pollard could be in the future used as an excuse by lawyers to not prosecute spies from other countries whether they are a ally or not.

Suggest you read up on the 9th amendment, because you sound like a leftist who is ignorant of the constitution. Not prosecuting Pollard would send the message you are allowed to spy on America and to disparage that right from others would be unconstitutional.

He wasn't just "prosecuted," you buffoon.   This went way beyond that.  He was betrayed, scapegoated, and hung out to dry.   He was TARGETED and persecuted.   And he is still persecuted to this day.   And you pay lipservice to his Jew-hating oppressors...    Sickening.