JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: muman613 on June 25, 2009, 04:31:49 PM
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This is believable but completely repulsive...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529099,00.html
(http://www.foxnews.com/images/542095/0_61_BPCS_320.jpg)
Symbols of communism and marijuana and a prediction that "capitalism will fail" aren't exactly the sort of end-of-year messages you'd expect from an eighth grader.
But that's precisely what some students at the Black Pine Circle School, a private school in Berkeley, Calif., chose to include in their "Class of 2007" mosaic.
The symbols, which are prominently displayed outside the school, have prompted questions about the appropriateness of images like a hammer and sickle and a marijuana leaf on school grounds — and have led critics to say they are blatant proof of political indoctrination of young children.
Black Pine Circle bills itself as a day school where students from kindergarten through eighth grade will be "maximally free of all the 'isms' which pervade most aspects of the world around them: from racism to sexism to the less obvious forms of discrimination," according to its Web site.
Capitalism, even if it fails, apparently isn't one of those: Tuition for a 10-month term costs more than $17,000.
Laura Wolff, assistant director and head of BPCS's Lower School, told FOXNews.com that each graduating student makes a tile to commemorate his or her time there, sometimes teaming up with other students to make a "dual tile." She said school officials do not edit or otherwise influence the end products.
"Being Berkeley, of course, we don't censor their creative expression," Wolff said. "It's fun to see what they come up with."
During a brief interview, Wolff said she was not familiar with the images in question — including the four-tile hammer and sickle depiction — and referred inquiries to John Carlstroem, director of the school, and art teachers Kieren Dutcher and Kim Buckingham. Multiple messages seeking additional comment were not returned.
Ron Reynolds, executive director of the California Association of Private School Organizations, said the images were in "bad taste," but stopped short of calling for their removal.
"I am certainly not enamored by that particular expression and I certainly disagree, but I don't think there's a law against someone expressing a stupid thought," Reynolds told FOXNews.com. "If they felt capitalism will fail, I'd be curious to see what their alternative is."
The mosaic's location on the perimeter of the school serves as an "advertisement for discriminating parents," according to Reynolds, who said he thought the images were conjured up solely by the students.
"Living in Berkeley, I don't think it's a tremendous stretch," he said. "If it were in Irvine or Van Nuys, yeah, I think there would be some raised eyebrows."
Alice Davis, 21, attended Black Pine Circle School from 1998 to 2001 and remembers painting her own tile — a "cityscape scene at nighttime." Davis, now living in Brooklyn, N.Y., said she doesn't recall receiving any instruction regarding the content of her creation.
"They left it up to a bunch of 13-year-olds to decide," Davis told FOXNews.com. "They were hands off in telling us what was appropriate and what wasn't. It was left to our judgment."
Meanwhile, Danae Condos, president of the Berkeley College Republicans, said she found the images "shocking" and not suitable for young children.
"I know some people might say it fits in with the Berkeley atmosphere, but it does say something about the type of education the students are receiving," she told FOXNews.com. "It's obvious that they're receiving some political indoctrination from the school or from their parents. There's no doubt in my mind they're being politically influenced in their education."
Condos, a 19-year-old student at the University of California-Berkeley, said she doubted that school administrators would allow any and all symbols.
"They wouldn't allow a swastika symbol," she said. "It shows where the school's standards lie. If you're seeing this at one of the top-notch schools in the area, imagine what's going on it other schools that don't have the same privileges."
Our schools are places where the communists are indoctrinating our youths with counter-culture and anti-Americanism... I think there should be a purge of teachers who subscribe to this vile propaganda.
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As scary as this sounds. Because of this, capitalism may come to an end.
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:'(
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Is this really surprising from a school in Berkley?
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Is this really surprising from a school in Berkley?
Did you mean Bezerkly?
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Is this really surprising from a school in Berkley?
Did you mean Bezerkly?
Well that's certainly more appropriate.
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I wouldn't pay for my child to go to Bezerkly.
Commonsense tells me that she would come out drawing the same pictures, if she went there.
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Education has become a draw for radicalism. Its a shame, because there are some really good teachers who are trying to do their best to educate the young generation, but they are also being poisoned by Marxism and anti-Americanism.
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Education has become a draw for radicalism. Its a shame, because there are some really good teachers who are trying to do their best to educate the young generation, but they are also being poisoned by Marxism and anti-Americanism.
Honestly, as a past public school teacher, I am still trying to get all the junk out of my head that makes me feel brain washed by the Educational system in college. The colleges teach the teachers to think "tolerance" which isn't really tolerance but indoctrination......
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Yeah, they have other "programs" as well...ie: PARENT TRAINING..where the SCHOOL has days to TRAIN parents how to be PARENTS...
I have never gone, cuz I can see what they are trying to do....
They want a bunch of robots, all doing, thinking, saying the same exact things, with their "approval".
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They are teaching the kids now about homo sex in schools. They are destroying the kids and making them into evil little demons. HOW can we SAVE these kids?
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A couple students at a private school in Berkley with a 17k a year tuition is nothing to be alarmed about. Their communist parents have obviously indoctrinated them. Grade school students have at best a rudimentary understanding of political ideologies.
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A couple students at a private school in Berkley with a 17k a year tuition is nothing to be alarmed about. Their communist parents have obviously indoctrinated them. Grade school students have at best a rudimentary understanding of political ideologies.
This is not so uncommon... We have read about stories where conservative teachers are pushed out of the schools, how public schools are indoctrinating with homosexuality and communism, and the list goes on and on.
This is just one of the most blatant examples of this phenomenon.
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Really shows how insane these people are supporting communism yet paying 17000 dollars a year to send their stupid kids to the school.
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A couple students at a private school in Berkley with a 17k a year tuition is nothing to be alarmed about. Their communist parents have obviously indoctrinated them. Grade school students have at best a rudimentary understanding of political ideologies.
This is not so uncommon... We have read about stories where conservative teachers are pushed out of the schools, how public schools are indoctrinating with homosexuality and communism, and the list goes on and on.
This is just one of the most blatant examples of this phenomenon.
I, as a young teacher of 22, years ago, begged parent to homeschool their children (and that was almost twenty years ago). I was given six homo tapes to show sixth graders. Our principal was livid because we wouldn't show the homo tapes to the children. I was horrified at what was in the schools. I refused to teach much of it. I had a friend that had the children cut some of the textbook pages out. She was pretty cool and bold. It is really much worse than parents realize. I don't have a single girlfriend who taught with me that isn't homeschooling. My friend of thirty five year retired said it is much worse than what it was when I was there. I didn't even want the details. Most parents have not even a clue at the tip of the iceberg...and, most won't believe all that I could disclose.
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Children can't be sheltered from society forever.
You have to be informed about and involved in their education.
Eventually they will have to hit the streets.
It is best to prepare them to deal with the garbage, kick the crap to the side and move forward on a moral path.
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Children can't be sheltered from society forever.
You have to be informed about and involved in their education.
Eventually they will have to hit the streets.
It is best to prepare them to deal with the garbage, kick the crap to the side and move forward on a moral path.
Sure, I think that is just what the Jewish tradition would show....hmmm....let, see...Did the Jewish people send their children to Rome to get educated? What does the Torah say about your beliefs?
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The school I went to is closing its doors forever. It was a private Catholic school cause of the lack of students. Trust me the Private schools are much better
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Children can't be sheltered from society forever.
You have to be informed about and involved in their education.
Eventually they will have to hit the streets.
It is best to prepare them to deal with the garbage, kick the crap to the side and move forward on a moral path.
Sure, I think that is just what the Jewish tradition would show....hmmm....let, see...Did the Jewish people send their children to Rome to get educated? What does the Torah say about your beliefs?
Where does it say to keep your children locked away in a closet in any holy book?
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Children can't be sheltered from society forever.
You have to be informed about and involved in their education.
Eventually they will have to hit the streets.
It is best to prepare them to deal with the garbage, kick the crap to the side and move forward on a moral path.
Sure, I think that is just what the Jewish tradition would show....hmmm....let, see...Did the Jewish people send their children to Rome to get educated? What does the Torah say about your beliefs?
Kids today need to be right in the thick of whats going on to know whats shaking out there. If they are to sheltered they will not be aware of the evil that is prevalent in today's society. A good family structure at home can overcome most of the evil that is being disseminated in today's schools. A main stream education is best in my opinion.
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Children can't be sheltered from society forever.
You have to be informed about and involved in their education.
Eventually they will have to hit the streets.
It is best to prepare them to deal with the garbage, kick the crap to the side and move forward on a moral path.
Sure, I think that is just what the Jewish tradition would show....hmmm....let, see...Did the Jewish people send their children to Rome to get educated? What does the Torah say about your beliefs?
Kids today need to be right in the thick of whats going on to know whats shaking out there. If they are to sheltered they will not be aware of the evil that is prevalent in today's society. A good family structure at home can overcome most of the evil that is being disseminated in today's schools. A main stream education is best in my opinion.
The problem is that evil is like an infection... Human nature is attracted to evil through our own yetzer hara. This is why it is so bad to look at images we are not supposed to look at. The act itself is not bad, the thoughts which result from the image are the bad thing. I do not think kids should be taught about all the evil in the world, it will end up becoming attractive to them.
I dont think it is the responsibility of schools to teach kids about the intricacies of homosexual sex. I dont think schools should teach sex education.
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Children can't be sheltered from society forever.
You have to be informed about and involved in their education.
Eventually they will have to hit the streets.
It is best to prepare them to deal with the garbage, kick the crap to the side and move forward on a moral path.
Sure, I think that is just what the Jewish tradition would show....hmmm....let, see...Did the Jewish people send their children to Rome to get educated? What does the Torah say about your beliefs?
Kids today need to be right in the thick of whats going on to know whats shaking out there. If they are to sheltered they will not be aware of the evil that is prevalent in today's society. A good family structure at home can overcome most of the evil that is being disseminated in today's schools. A main stream education is best in my opinion.
The problem is that evil is like an infection... Human nature is attracted to evil through our own yetzer hara. This is why it is so bad to look at images we are not supposed to look at. The act itself is not bad, the thoughts which result from the image are the bad thing. I do not think kids should be taught about all the evil in the world, it will end up becoming attractive to them.
I dont think it is the responsibility of schools to teach kids about the intricacies of homosexual sex. I dont think schools should teach sex education.
Isn't it impossible to shield children from all the evils in the world?
What happens when they become adults?
Never having been exposed to those things may make them even more attractive and alluring.
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Really shows how insane these people are supporting communism yet paying 17000 dollars a year to send their stupid kids to the school.
Not really. Communist elitists typically want communism for the masses, not for themselves. That's why the politicians in Washington aren't overly concerned about nationalized health care leading to rationing and long wait periods. It won't apply to them.
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Children can't be sheltered from society forever.
You have to be informed about and involved in their education.
Eventually they will have to hit the streets.
It is best to prepare them to deal with the garbage, kick the crap to the side and move forward on a moral path.
Excellent post reply Bullcat!
Very well put.
Shalom - Dox
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Children can't be sheltered from society forever.
You have to be informed about and involved in their education.
Eventually they will have to hit the streets.
It is best to prepare them to deal with the garbage, kick the crap to the side and move forward on a moral path.
Sure, I think that is just what the Jewish tradition would show....hmmm....let, see...Did the Jewish people send their children to Rome to get educated? What does the Torah say about your beliefs?
Where does it say to keep your children locked away in a closet in any holy book?
It is sad that a "Jewish" moderator would have such a lack of respect for the Torah.
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Children can't be sheltered from society forever.
You have to be informed about and involved in their education.
Eventually they will have to hit the streets.
It is best to prepare them to deal with the garbage, kick the crap to the side and move forward on a moral path.
Sure, I think that is just what the Jewish tradition would show....hmmm....let, see...Did the Jewish people send their children to Rome to get educated? What does the Torah say about your beliefs?
Where does it say to keep your children locked away in a closet in any holy book?
It is sad that a "Jewish" moderator would have such a lack of respect for the Torah.
Why put Jewish in quotes?
You are either Jewish or you are not.
There are no quotes about it.
Stop trying to stir the pot.
I did ask a question. Do you have an answer?
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My understanding of Torah is that we should provide as much shelter from the evils of the society we live in to our children. Why would one who lives in the middle of depraved San Francisco send his son or daughter to the Sodom and Gamorrah of the public school system here? Our sages have said that it is better to live in a cave, in the middle of nowhere, rather than live in a city where depravity takes place. We must seek neighbors who are righteous.
I believe that we must shelter our children from the sickness which is spreading rampantly in this country. When you take your kids to a ballgame or other entertainment, they are bombarded with immorality. I am beginning to feel that America is a cultural infection, oozing puss and stinking up the world.
Do not feel good when you think that you cannot shield children {and adults} from the infected culture. Nobody is forcing you to have a television, are they? I haven't watched the TV in almost six months now.... I am thinking of selling my flat-screen tv because there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on TV I would like to watch. The sickness of society enters the household through the TV screen. Check the statistics, I have heard that an average 15 yo sees 1000s of murders , 100000s of sexual immorality, in an average week of viewing TV.
I do believe that we must be able to control our eyes, ears, and mouths.... This society does everything it can to make us see perversion, hear abomination, and speak lashon hara...
http://www.torah.org/learning/mlife/chapter6-1.html
"It is the inherent nature of man (lit., 'it is the way of a person's creation') to be drawn, both in his attitudes and deeds, after his friends and associates, and to act in the manner of the inhabitants of his country. Therefore, a person is obligated to befriend the righteous and to constantly be in the presence of the wise in order that he learn from their acts. He should [likewise] distance himself from the wicked who go in darkness in order that he not learn from their ways. This is as Solomon stated, '[One who] walks with the wise will become wise, and one who befriends fools will suffer harm' (Proverbs 13:20). It also states, 'Fortunate is the man who did not walk in the counsel of the wicked, [and in the way of sins he did not stand, and in the sessions of the scorners he did not sit]' (Psalms 1:1).
"So too if a person is in a country in which its practices are bad and its inhabitants do not walk in the upright path, he should move to a place in which its inhabitants are righteous and act properly. And if all the countries that he knows of and has heard of act improperly -- as in our times, or he is unable to travel to a country where its practices are good because of bands of soldiers or [his own] ill health, he should dwell alone, by himself, as it states, 'Let him sit in solitude and be silent' (Lamentations 3:28). And if [his country's inhabitants] are evil and sinful [so much so] that they do not allow him to live in the country unless he is involved with them and acts in their bad ways, he should go out to caves, brier patches and deserts and not accustom himself in sinful ways, in the manner that it states, 'Who would give me in the wilderness a guest lodge...' (Jeremiah 9:1).")
We are now beginning a new chapter of the Rambam. It deals with man's relationship with his surroundings and with interpersonal relationships in general.
The overall theme this week is the extent to which man is influenced by his environment and the consequent importance of living in a healthy one. We are all familiar with the enormous pressure exerted by one's neighborhood and society and the almost palpable pressure not to stand out. (I discussed this once before in Pirkei Avos 2:14).) People will go to enormous lengths to hide their Jewishness (or any other shortcoming) in an irreligious environment or to demonstrate it in a religious one. Although such pressures are basically superficial, they are very real -- and quite difficult to overcome. And so, advises the Rambam, we must make every effort to live in a positive environment and avoid the negative -- even to the extent of withdrawing from society and finding a comfortable cave in which to dwell unmolested.
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muman, I agree with you 100% that children should be shielded however we also need to raise children that become adults that can deal in the real world. I have not watched a sitcom in 20 years and if TV was gone over night the only thing I would miss is Fox news and the old black and white movies made in the 30's and 40's. I am however the exception not the rule.... People live and die by what they see on TV. So now tell me where the city is that I would be able to raise a child and not have him or her subjected to the sickness that infects society. Does a place like this exist? Children need to be in the mainstream but they need to be taught at home the difference between right and wrong. Informed moral young people are who may save society. Sheltered people unable to deal with things they have little understanding of would not even be able to save themselves.
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I deal with the California state curriculum quite a bit, and we were just sent notices, that k-12 cannot use the terms 'Dad' and 'Mom' in school, as it is offensive to non-traditional families. I'm not joking.
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I deal with the California state curriculum quite a bit, and we were just sent notices, that k-12 cannot use the terms 'Dad' and 'Mom' in school, as it is offensive to non-traditional families. I'm not joking.
Is that just teachers that can't say it, or students too?
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Public Schools = Assimilation.
Always has, always will. Whether Public schools are worse off now should make no difference to Jews. A Jew should receive a Jewish education. There is no other option.
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I deal with the California state curriculum quite a bit, and we were just sent notices, that k-12 cannot use the terms 'Dad' and 'Mom' in school, as it is offensive to non-traditional families. I'm not joking.
That is disgusting. I think it says more about society,in general, then it does about the schools.
Home school or public school, we better prepare our children for what is out there. Pretending that there are no problems, will not make them go away. Advocating for our children might be a better choice.
We can take a lesson out of the book of Michael Jackson. We can retreat to Never Never Land. Not expose ourselves to reality. See where that takes us. Didn't do him any good.
Arming children with faith in God, morality and the smarts to keep safe will go a longer way in preparing them to deal with life.
The hard part to accept is that there are no guarantees...either way.
I am not Jewish. I can have no opinion on obtaining a Jewish education. I respect how you feel Muman and Yochai. The choice is individual.
My child attends religious education in addition to her public schooling and home 'education'.
MomofSixBabies thinks home schooling is the only way to go. It may be for her family. That doesn't make it right for all.
Not every child that attends a public school will come out the 'devil', as she had once insinuated.
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Not every child that attends a public school will come out the 'devil', as she had once insinuated.
Perhaps not but one thing's for sure. It will depend on that child's parents. If they take a hands off approach to their child's education and upbringing you can be sure that the child has a very good chance to come out the 'devil'.
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Not every child that attends a public school will come out the 'devil', as she had once insinuated.
Perhaps not but one thing's for sure. It will depend on that child's parents. If they take a hands off approach to their child's education and upbringing you can be sure that the child has a very good chance to come out the 'devil'.
Very true HiWarp. Can't argue with that. Same can be said for homeschooling. If the parents don't instill good morals, you can still end up with the devil.
I have an acquaintance who's children are homeschooled. They are super bright kids. Mean and selfish as can be though.