JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Irish Zionist on July 12, 2009, 05:13:18 PM
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I don't want to offend anyone, I am just asking. I heard of the Kanhanist Jew, Orthodox. Now is there such thing as Zionist Jews. And can you tell me the differences in each type of Jew. (I know very little so plz don't be offended from what I wrote maybe your all the same) I know I haven't spelt Kanhanist correct forgive me.
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Irish I am sure there are an infinite number of prefixes you could attach to Jews if you wanted to differentiate finely enough. Most people who divide up Jews religiously into categories use Orthodox, Conservative and Reform with the categories ranging from most to least observant. There is also something called Reconstructionist which I don't understand at all even though I once had a date with a woman studying for their Rabbinate.
Using terms such as Kahanist, Zionist, etc is just putting a philosophy of sorts before Jewish. It is sort of like dividing Irish people into pro IRA anti IRA pro Provisionalists etc.
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Kahanist Jews range - from Orthodox to Secular. Kahanism, as a philosophy, although deeply rooted in Torah, is a voice of common sense and appeals to most normal Jews, across all walks of life, across different political and religious beliefs. I do think, however, that majority of Kahanist Jews are Orthodox, Conservative and Nationalist. I suspect that a number of Kahanist secular Jews would also be significantly greater than Kahanist reform Jews.
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Technically there is orthodox and non orthodox jews. That's it
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There are Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, I think those are the two biggest ethnic groups. There are also Ethiopian Jews. I'm sure there are more groups.
As for political ideology it seems like they are as diverse as the rest of us. Right wing, left wing, etc
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Technically there is orthodox and non orthodox jews. That's it
Let me spread this out a little bit
You have orthodox and non orthodox jews to describe their religiosity
Then you have ashkenazi and sephardic which describe the type of tradition and ethnicity.
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I understand now i think ;D
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In Israel we have the following major classifications of religious observing: Secular, Masorty, Observant. All three are nominally orthodox. We also have a division to Ashkenazi, Mizrachi, Yemani traditions. Each of them have a different tradition about how to pronounce and sing the prayers, and there are also few variations in the prayer scrolls and in few other things.
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i think its, Orthodox Jews,Conservative Jews,Sefardic Jews,Messianic Jews, Reformist Jews,Baghdadi jews, Mizo Jews,Ethiopian jews.
But i too dont know difference between them. Muman can answer it better.
and IZ, what the heck is Zionist Jew, i think all Jews are Zionist Jews.
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Two types of divisions, religious and geographical.
I myself though, do not feel it is too productive for JEws to classify themselves based on where their family lived in the Galut. Israel is the only geographical home of the Jews.
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i think its, Orthodox Jews,Conservative Jews,Sefardic Jews,Messianic Jews, Reformist Jews,Baghdadi jews, Mizo Jews,Ethiopian jews.
But i too dont know difference between them. Muman can answer it better.
and IZ, what the heck is Zionist Jew, i think all Jews are Zionist Jews.
um..let me make more sense of this for you Hindu Zionist:
Amongst the Ashkanazi group of Jews you have orthodox and non orthodox
Amongst the Orthodox Jews you have different ideological groups
Amongst the Non-Orthodox Jews you groups such as Reform, Reconstructionist, Conservative
There is no such thing as a Messianic "Jewish" type movement also known as "Jews" for Jesus. These are not Jewish movements...rather they are "Christian" movements who attempt to fool unknowing Jews to convert to Christianity without realizing it.
Sephardic Jews who are mostly North African, middle eastern, asian, oriental..etc...they don't have orthodox or non orthodox. Bagdadi, Persian, Indian Ethiopian Jews etc etc...all of those are names of regional traditions and areas that certain Jews come from.
Zionist Jew...well, that makes no sense because by definition, an aspect of Judaism and Torah is Zionism-a hope and return to the homeland. Therefore, a Jew by definition, should be a "zionist". There are Jews who are anti-zionist...they are doing the wrong thing.
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Dr. Dan, you just helped me put a big piece of the puzzle together in my own understanding of Judaism.
"Zionist Jew...well, that makes no sense because by definition, an aspect of Judaism and Torah is Zionism-a hope and return to the homeland. Therefore, a Jew by definition, should be a "zionist". There are Jews who are anti-zionist...they are doing the wrong thing."
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Dr. Dan, you just helped me put a big piece of the puzzle together in my own understanding of Judaism.
"Zionist Jew...well, that makes no sense because by definition, an aspect of Judaism and Torah is Zionism-a hope and return to the homeland. Therefore, a Jew by definition, should be a "zionist". There are Jews who are anti-zionist...they are doing the wrong thing."
i mean, come on! The Torah goes into depth about Gd's promise to the Jewish people to have a homeland in Eretz Yisrael...For a Jew to be against such a Jewish country makes him making the wrong decision. That's one of the things Meir Kahane was about and JTF.
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thank you Dr. Dan, i did not know all this.
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are there Jews identified as Kalbalah Jews? As i found that not all Jews can read Kalbalah. so is there some distinction?
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A Zionist is anyone who believes that a Jewish nation should exist--Jewish or Gentile, secular or religious.
An Orthodox Jew is someone who takes literally all of the commandments of the Torah and Talmud--in short, a devout Jew.
A Kahanist Jew is a Jew who supports the teachings (especially the political ideology) of HaRav Meir David Kahane (zt"l). Kahanists can be either secular or observant (Orthodox), but most of them are religious. There are Kahanist Gentiles too, however.
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are there Jews identified as Kalbalah Jews? As i found that not all Jews can read Kalbalah. so is there some distinction?
I am sure there are people who identify themselves as such. In this age every concept has been deconstucted and abused.
But still there is no sense in such definition. Kabalah is Jewish mysticism. It is not valid as a source to makes rules or judgments. It deals with wither pure isotherics things or sometimes with "magic" like supposedly curing diseases and finding a match. It is entirely based on faith in the bible, the midrash, and the study of these sources. So for someone to believe in Kaballah and not believe in Judaism is an absurd.
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are there Jews identified as Kalbalah Jews? As i found that not all Jews can read Kalbalah. so is there some distinction?
I am sure there are people who identify themselves as such. In this age every concept has been deconstucted and abused.
But still there is no sense in such definition. Kabalah is Jewish mysticism. It is not valid as a source to makes rules or judgments. It deals with wither pure isotherics things or sometimes with "magic" like supposedly curing diseases and finding a match. It is entirely based on faith in the bible, the midrash, and the study of these sources. So for someone to believe in Kaballah and not believe in Judaism is an absurd.
Madonna
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are there Jews identified as Kalbalah Jews? As i found that not all Jews can read Kalbalah. so is there some distinction?
What do you mean 'read kabbalah'? Kabbalah simply means the received , oral mystical tradition... Kabbalah means to receive...
There is no such thing as reading kabbalah unless you mean reading Kabbalistic sources..
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Muman you know that traditionally someone has to be versed in the Talmud and pass the age of 40 before he start studying Kabbalah. I am sure that's what HZ means.
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There is also the "traitor kind of kike" called Neturei Karta:
http://www.nkusa.org/ >:(
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Muman you know that traditionally someone has to be versed in the Talmud and pass the age of 40 before he start studying Kabbalah. I am sure that's what HZ means.
Of course I am aware of this... But I doubt that was what he was referring to... There are many Jews who are over 40 and have studied talmud. It still would not be considered 'reading' kabbalah, but learning kabbalah...
PS: I have been wondering if Rabbi Akiva, who didn't make Teshuva till the age of 40, learned Kabbalah... I am sure that he did but it must have been a struggle with such a late start.
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are there Jews identified as Kalbalah Jews? As i found that not all Jews can read Kalbalah. so is there some distinction?
What do you mean 'read kabbalah'? Kabbalah simply means the received , oral mystical tradition... Kabbalah means to receive...
There is no such thing as reading kabbalah unless you mean reading Kabbalistic sources..
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yes, i meant the sourcesare there Jews identified as Kalbalah Jews? As i found that not all Jews can read Kalbalah. so is there some distinction?
I am sure there are people who identify themselves as such. In this age every concept has been deconstucted and abused.
But still there is no sense in such definition. Kabalah is Jewish mysticism. It is not valid as a source to makes rules or judgments. It deals with wither pure isotherics things or sometimes with "magic" like supposedly curing diseases and finding a match. It is entirely based on faith in the bible, the midrash, and the study of these sources. So for someone to believe in Kaballah and not believe in Judaism is an absurd.
now i get it! thank you
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are there Jews identified as Kalbalah Jews? As i found that not all Jews can read Kalbalah. so is there some distinction?
Kaballah is a Jewish mystical and even considered secret text that is very very very very deep. I learned that those who are well versed in Torah and Talmud and over the age of 40 are qualified to learn from it. Anyone else who tries to read it will not understand it the way it was intended to.
Therefore there is no such thing as a "Kabbalah" Jew.
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i have heard a few things about Haredi Jews, and they are too good. I feel majority of the Jews should become Haredi. I'm sorry if i have offended non-Haredics, maybe i dont know much.
does someone have more info about Rabbi Yehuda Deri, he seems to be a great man, Israel needs more such Rabbis!
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I'm a Zionist Jew, I support Israel as a Jewish homeland because 1) I think it's about time Jewish people stop living of Europeans and 2) I don't want Jewish people waiting for another pogrom and being blamed for trying to dominate the world if they achieve places of power.
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i think its, Orthodox Jews,Conservative Jews,Sefardic Jews,Messianic Jews, Reformist Jews,Baghdadi jews, Mizo Jews,Ethiopian jews.
But i too dont know difference between them. Muman can answer it better.
and IZ, what the heck is Zionist Jew, i think all Jews are Zionist Jews.
um..let me make more sense of this for you Hindu Zionist:
Amongst the Ashkanazi group of Jews you have orthodox and non orthodox
Amongst the Orthodox Jews you have different ideological groups
Amongst the Non-Orthodox Jews you groups such as Reform, Reconstructionist, Conservative
There is no such thing as a Messianic "Jewish" type movement also known as "Jews" for Jesus. These are not Jewish movements...rather they are "Christian" movements who attempt to fool unknowing Jews to convert to Christianity without realizing it.
Sefardic Jews who are mostly North African, middle eastern, asian, oriental..etc...they don't have orthodox or non orthodox. Bagdadi, Persian, Indian Ethiopian Jews etc etc...all of those are names of regional traditions and areas that certain Jews come from.
Zionist Jew...well, that makes no sense because by definition, an aspect of Judaism and Torah is Zionism-a hope and return to the homeland. Therefore, a Jew by definition, should be a "zionist". There are Jews who are anti-zionist...they are doing the wrong thing.
Dr. Dan which tradition follow Ethopian Jews?
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i have heard a few things about Haredi Jews, and they are too good. I feel majority of the Jews should become Haredi. I'm sorry if i have offended non-Haredics, maybe i dont know much.
does someone have more info about Rabbi Yehuda Deri, he seems to be a great man, Israel needs more such Rabbis!
Hasidim, at least majority of them, are part of the Haredim. The non-Hasidim Ashkenzim, whom are called Litvaks (Lithuaneans) are actually a minority of Haredim, but their lead rabbis are the most influential Ashkenazi rabbis. The Mizrahi/Sefaradi Haredim (from the $ha$ party ) are basically mimicking the Litvaks.
If majority of the Jews would be Haredim, then we would be in big troubles. The Haredim in Israel encourage their men not to serve in the army and not to go to work, but rather dedicate all their time for study. They are depending on state funding and other types of funding form rich Haredim home and abroad. If they increase too much without changing their way of life, our economy would surely collapse.
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i think its, Orthodox Jews,Conservative Jews,Sefardic Jews,Messianic Jews, Reformist Jews,Baghdadi jews, Mizo Jews,Ethiopian jews.
But i too dont know difference between them. Muman can answer it better.
and IZ, what the heck is Zionist Jew, i think all Jews are Zionist Jews.
um..let me make more sense of this for you Hindu Zionist:
Amongst the Ashkanazi group of Jews you have orthodox and non orthodox
Amongst the Orthodox Jews you have different ideological groups
Amongst the Non-Orthodox Jews you groups such as Reform, Reconstructionist, Conservative
There is no such thing as a Messianic "Jewish" type movement also known as "Jews" for Jesus. These are not Jewish movements...rather they are "Christian" movements who attempt to fool unknowing Jews to convert to Christianity without realizing it.
Sefardic Jews who are mostly North African, middle eastern, asian, oriental..etc...they don't have orthodox or non orthodox. Bagdadi, Persian, Indian Ethiopian Jews etc etc...all of those are names of regional traditions and areas that certain Jews come from.
Zionist Jew...well, that makes no sense because by definition, an aspect of Judaism and Torah is Zionism-a hope and return to the homeland. Therefore, a Jew by definition, should be a "zionist". There are Jews who are anti-zionist...they are doing the wrong thing.
Dr. Dan which tradition follow Ethopian Jews?
They belong to their own tradition. They even call the rabbi "keis". But since they didn't kept the studying of Talmud in Ethiopia they study in mizrahi yeshivot.
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Thank you. :)
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There is also something called Reconstructionist which I don't understand at all even though I once had a date with a woman studying for their Rabbinate.
The difference between Reform and Reconstructionist Jews was explained to me thusly (by a Reconstructionist Rabbi): the Reform Jews are not observant, but they believe in G-d, while the Reconstructionist Jews try to be observant (not as observant as the Orthodox, but not as "anything goes" as the Reform), but they don't believe in G-d. I asked this Rabbi why they bother to be observant if they don't believe in G-d. His answer was that observing the Jewish tradition is meaningful in itself and gives Jews the sense of belonging and structure.
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Its deconstructionists. Not reconstuctionist
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There is also something called Reconstructionist which I don't understand at all even though I once had a date with a woman studying for their Rabbinate.
The difference between Reform and Reconstructionist Jews was explained to me thusly (by a Reconstructionist Rabbi): the Reform Jews are not observant, but they believe in G-d, while the Reconstructionist Jews try to be observant (not as observant as the Orthodox, but not as "anything goes" as the Reform), but they don't believe in G-d. I asked this Rabbi why they bother to be observant if they don't believe in G-d. His answer was that observing the Jewish tradition is meaningful in itself and gives Jews the sense of belonging and structure.
That doesn't make much sense. Whatever the differences are, Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist are all un-Jewish movements. Conservative is at least a little better than Reform and Reconstructionist. Most of my family is Conservative, and at least they don't eat cheeseburgers, eat pork, and go to synagogues where people play instruments on shabbat unlike my Reform relatives.