JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: wonga66 on September 05, 2009, 08:44:27 PM
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Rav Kahane always said that "Likud is neveilah and and Labour is treif".
And now Katazaleh confirms this http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133274 flaying the so called "rightwing" MKs brought in by the stupid but devious NWO-operative Pipi, in order to give the Likud the imprimatura of being kosher, including the well-meaning but none-too-smart Feiglin and the lovely unmarried Hotovely
(http://www.knesset.gov.il/mk/images/members/Hotovely_Tzipi.jpg)
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Yaacov Katz is right about that. Yasher koach.
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LOL, do we need a head-to-toe photograph?
I'm not sure what you mean by this? Do you really imply that bibi as an "Nwo-operative" orchestrated for a hardliner like Feiglin to be IN likud in order to somehow make HIMSELF look more rightwing?
That could not get any nuttier. Feiglin is the most outspoken critic of Bibi in Likud. And Bibi pushed him DOWN on the Likud list, not UP. LOL. Man you need some help.
As far as the "lovely" Hotovely, the public already perceived Likud as "kosher" rightwing party long before she ever showed up, and she herself IS RIGHTWING! She is completely against the land withdrawals. So that helps bibi? Think again.
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Not everything is an "NWO conspiracy" designed to make you lose and evil win.
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Say hi to Barry for me, wonga. It seems like you talk to him a lot.
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Likud politicians such as Effie Eitam and MK Tzipi Hotovely are used to convince the political right to vote Likud, while in fact the Likud leadership has no intention of supporting right-wing policies.....He uses them to call on those he intends to harm to vote for him,” Ketzaleh said in explanation of what he termed Netanyahu's “method.” The method worked, he said – more than half of the religious-Zionist community voted for Netanyahu., he said.After using his nationalist candidates to gain support, Netanyahu betrayed his voters, Ketzaleh said. “One second after he is elected, Netanyahu trampled the most basic of the Jewish people's eternal values. What Sharon managed to do with help from Feiglin, Livnat, Yisrael Katz, Silvan Shalom, Hanegbi, Mofaz, Livni and Olmert is a stain that will never be erased, a crime, a disaster. And now, using Elkin, Hotovely and the rest, who strengthen his position, Netanyahu continues with the same crimes.....
If these 4 alone had joined Ichud Leumi, history would have been different
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_n7RltmTdk-g/R9M_v31a8SI/AAAAAAAAC64/YJYYT-uzKnk/s320/Moshe_Feiglin.jpg)
(http://www.iris.org.il/blog/uploads/amonaEitamClubbed.jpeg)
(http://www.knesset.gov.il/mk/images/members/elkin_zeev.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4fXiSULTi10/SlNxBJe6bzI/AAAAAAAADLg/E0jGGb29vZ4/s400/Hotovely188.JPG)
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Well that may be the Ichud Leumi party line, but I read of Katzelah's approval of Bibi before nuttyahu refused to accept him into the coalition. If Ichud Leumi had worked some kind of deal and joined the coalition under bibi, would ichud leumi be just one more in the list of "used enablers" and would Katzelah be admitting it publicly and blaming his own party for joining up with Bibi? KEEP DREAMING.
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Kahane was right, we don't know what Katzaleh demanded to be in the government that made Bibi reject him. I don't think Katz is accusing anyone of a grand conspiracy just saying the strategy of working within the Likud is allowing Bibi to pursue a left wing strategy without consequences from the right. I believe Chaim says the same thing.
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The Knesset has the effect of instantly subverting the ideology of even the better MKs
Only one person entered the Knesset and left the Knesset with his soul and ideology still pure: Rabbi Kahane!
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Wonga, who's that girl in your post?
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Tzipi Hotovely
http://www.knesset.gov.il/mk/eng/mk_eng.asp?mk_individual_id_t=825
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzipi_Hotovely
Wonga, who's that girl in your post?
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Tzipi Hotovely
http://www.knesset.gov.il/mk/eng/mk_eng.asp?mk_individual_id_t=825
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzipi_Hotovely
Wonga, who's that girl in your post?
She's beautiful.
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Tzipi Hotovely
http://www.knesset.gov.il/mk/eng/mk_eng.asp?mk_individual_id_t=825
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzipi_Hotovely
Wonga, who's that girl in your post?
She's beautiful.
Hello captain obvious.
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Kahane was right, we don't know what Katzaleh demanded to be in the government that made Bibi reject him. I don't think Katz is accusing anyone of a grand conspiracy just saying the strategy of working within the Likud is allowing Bibi to pursue a left wing strategy without consequences from the right. I believe Chaim says the same thing.
Ok, I agree with you that he is not accusing of grand conspiracy or NWO orchestration. Unfortunately one of our members here took Katzelah's comments to be an indication that he does believe that. Glad that you agree with me.
Now as to your statement,
What consequences?
If people like Feiglin, Danny Danon, Hotovelli etc were outside of likud and joined up with splinter parties like Ichud Leumi or Jewish Home or whatever else (or made their own like Baruch Marzel did that time, etc), what consequences would there be for Bibi? And do you realize how many votes he would lose from that? Maybe a handful, possibly 2-5 seats in knesset. That would have enabled a Kadima led coalition. So what good would that do.
Unlike what galilee is suggesting here, there is nothing historical about 6 seats for Ichud Leumi sitting in opposition as opposed to 3 seats for Ichud Leumi sitting in opposition. In either cause, Ichud Leumi can only talk, not do. They are made politically irrelevant by netanyoyo's exclusion of them from the coalition... And at the end of the day, he was able to do that because he doesn't need them. He has shas, utj, even labor, a whole host of parties who will coalition with him.
And that to me is why it is futile to try to 'fight' the ruling elite from outside the major nationalist party, Likud.
NU has been trying to fight this fight for so many years now, and they keep getting nowhere. I just refuse to keep believing in the same method that has failed countless times. The public sees NU and NU-type parties as too much of a narrow-interest group. The majority of votes will always go to the big-name parties, Likud and Labor (now Kadima, the new standard bearer of Labor, which itself has become more like meretz - more fringe, and therefore less popular).
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There needs to be a Kahane-like figure to mobilize the right and recruit across the demographic spectrum to any party that will try to fight from 'without' like Kach did. And even by the Rav, it took 3 elections before he became a major player. But with someone like him, that can work. He was able to reach Jewish society. There is NO ONE like Rabbi Kahane in Israel today.
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KWRBT, I agree that it's difficult for parties like NU or the Jewish National Front to fight the establishment without a figure like Rabbi Kahane, but I think it is much more difficult to do so from within the Likud. The Likud will always be run by people such as Netanyahu, and if people such as Moshe Feiglin criticize Netanyahu, it means nothing since that's not what the Likud as a whole stands for. This article is kind of old, but I think it's relevant today.
http://jtf.org/israel/israel.sharon.likud.victory.proves.feiglin.wrong.htm (http://jtf.org/israel/israel.sharon.likud.victory.proves.feiglin.wrong.htm)
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KWRBT, I agree that it's difficult for parties like NU or the Jewish National Front to fight the establishment without a figure like Rabbi Kahane, but I think it is much more difficult to do so from within the Likud. The Likud will always be run by people such as Netanyahu, and if people such as Moshe Feiglin criticize Netanyahu, it means nothing since that's not what the Likud as a whole stands for. This article is kind of old, but I think it's relevant today.
http://jtf.org/israel/israel.sharon.likud.victory.proves.feiglin.wrong.htm (http://jtf.org/israel/israel.sharon.likud.victory.proves.feiglin.wrong.htm)
That was then, this is now. Feiglin got second place to bibi in the Likud primary last time with 24% of the vote. Clearly support for HIM in the likud is growing and support for bibi is waning. (he had 12% the time before, and 3% the first time he ran).
Also that old article recommends the alternative of Baruch Marzel's Chayil party. Well that party didn't fare so well, although I of course liked it, but Marzel himself has given up on that idea. He currently serves as an aide to Michael Ben Ari, although I believe it was Marzel himself who was one of the people who chose Ben Ari to be on the Ichud Leumi list. I don't know where I saw it, but I think R. Baruch Marzel was one of the people who helped put together that party. Maybe this is more of a balance that can appeal to more people than Hayil and still be more inflexible than Likud, but I still believe that this is viewed as a splinter party by the Israeli public and cannot appeal to a wider base in its current format.
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That was then, this is now. Feiglin got second place to bibi in the Likud primary last time with 24% of the vote. Clearly support for HIM in the likud is growing and support for bibi is waning. (he had 12% the time before, and 3% the first time he ran).<<
I like Feiglin and have contributed money to his campaign, but how effective is he, if Nethanyahu can simply pull him off the Likud list because he did not like him, even though he got more than enough votes to have a secure position on the list?
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Although Feiglin serves a somewhat useful purpose as a gadfly in the Likud camp, when R.Kahane called Likud "neveiloh", he meant it: neveiloh can never be made kosher.
And the punishment for eating neveiloh is more severe than for eating treif!
The Likud would rather dissolve itself in to oblivion than see Feiglin as its leader.
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That was then, this is now. Feiglin got second place to bibi in the Likud primary last time with 24% of the vote. Clearly support for HIM in the likud is growing and support for bibi is waning. (he had 12% the time before, and 3% the first time he ran).<<
I like Feiglin and have contributed money to his campaign, but how effective is he, if Nethanyahu can simply pull him off the Likud list because he did not like him, even though he got more than enough votes to have a secure position on the list?
Well he will be real effective when he can win one of those primaries and be the leader of Likud. Then he'll call the shots. God willing that will be the next one. But that is really where people need to support him, when it comes time for likud primaries.
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Most Israelis are too tight and can't be bothered to pay the 70 shekels to register as a voting Likud member.
Also the cunning Likud PTB have just brought in a new rule that new Likud members can't vote in Likud primaries for 18 months! ie don't expect Feiglin to get anywhere in the Likud any time soon!
When R.Kahane turned down Begin's pleas for him to join the Likud in 1977, it was an act of righteousness!
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Is there anyone here who would actually send 70 shekels to join the Likud and support Feiglin's and Sackett's Likud faction as per their advert below?
Are you a registered Likud member?
Do you read the Manhigut Yehudit update every week and say to yourself, "Wow, they're right!"
Before you take out your old anti-Sharon signs and insert Bibi's name, do something that can really stop Bibi. Register now for the Likud. Every voter counts in this all-serious of races.
New! Register on-line in English here.
If you are not an Israeli citizen, please forward this email to friends who are.
If you are already registered, take a look around you for people who can register. Children over 18? Friends, neighbors, co-workers. Don't eat your heart out! Do something effective! Send your friends and family to register on-line at http://www.haleumi.org/121733/Registration-in-English.
Our Aim: To perfect the world in the Kingdom of the Almighty
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Yes, I would. How is that not worth 70 shekels? That's the easiest 70 shekels I could ever spend. I'd be counting down the days until the primary.
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I would never join the Likud Party, but what's so difficult about paying 70 shekels? What is that, about 15 dollars?
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I would never join the Likud Party, but what's so difficult about paying 70 shekels? What is that, about 15 dollars?
But you would be joining likud in order to vote AGAINST bibi or whatever other phony and vote for someone else to be head of likud. I don't see how that's not worth it. In principle, or in principal (17 dollars cash?). I would definitely support Moshe feiglin. And if he loses the primary, you don't have to vote likud in the national election, you can pick any party.
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This is a catch-22, because if more Feiglin supporters were to vote Ichud LEumi, then KAdima surely would have won the last election. Granted, Likud is almost as bad as Kadima, but not quite as bad.
Then again, it is always the fake right wing that makes these deals, so maybe we'd be better off with a weak emaciated Kadima in power, as Likud is much better in opposition when it pretends to be a real right-wing party. Then, when it comes into power, it always veers back left.
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So in the absence of Kach, would Rabbi Kahane from Heaven advise us today to support Feglin or Katzeleh? Or support both?!
I believe his son Binaymin Zeev would say vote for neither, either strategically, tactically or morally!
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I believe his son Binaymin Zeev would say vote for neither, either strategically, tactically or morally!
I would say neither. There isn't any alternative to voting at this time. So vote we must.
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This is a catch-22, because if more Feiglin supporters were to vote Ichud LEumi, then KAdima surely would have won the last election. Granted, Likud is almost as bad as Kadima, but not quite as bad.
Then again, it is always the fake right wing that makes these deals, so maybe we'd be better off with a weak emaciated Kadima in power, as Likud is much better in opposition when it pretends to be a real right-wing party. Then, when it comes into power, it always veers back left.
Personally, I wouldn't necessarily jump ship especially in this past election when everyone knew it was going to come down to likud and kadima. I would have voted for likud. As far as bibi's treason, Kadima would have frozen settlements 10 times over by now, and they would have made a speech calling for fakestinian state, but with a military. Basically what he does but worse. I was just saying for someone who is personally averse to casting a vote for Likud, it's a win-win situation as they can "opt out" if he doesn't win the primary.