JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: FreedomFighter08 on September 05, 2009, 11:21:23 PM
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Just want to know.
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Orthodox Judaism, and very zionist.
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non-denominational Christianity
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ISLAM!!!*
*j/k
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Pastafarianism :laugh:
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ISLAM!!!*
The you should be banned :laugh:
*j/k
*j/k
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Orthodox Judaism, and very zionist.
I'm trying to associate myself more with the Yeshivish crowd. Do you know the difference between Orthodox and Hareidi?
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Christian Zionist Kahanist
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Christian Zionist Kahanist
Say THAT 10 times quickly. :laugh:
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Christianity. Glad no one picked Islam.
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Christian Zionist Kahanist
Say THAT 10 times quickly. :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh:
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Orthodox Judaism, and very zionist.
I'm trying to associate myself more with the Yeshivish crowd. Do you know the difference between Orthodox and Hareidi?
In Israel:
Orthodox wear knitted kippas. Their "major" is the Settlement and Defence of the Land of Israel. JTF is Orthodox.
Hareidi (aka "Ultra-Orthodox") wear black hats and suits. Their "major" is Torah study. There are anti-Zionist ones (like Satmar Chassidim) and non-Zionist (other kind of Chassidim, Litayim ("Litvaks"), and some Sefaradim).
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BTW, "non-Zionist" means they are not against the very idea of the Jewish state but are strongly against the secular and non-Jewish way it is governed.
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Orthodox Judaism, and very zionist.
I'm trying to associate myself more with the Yeshivish crowd. Do you know the difference between Orthodox and Hareidi?
Yes, and that is why I do not identify as haredi. Yeshivish is a branch of haredi.
The haredi outlook separates nationalism from Judaism, and to me that is less than honest. That is only one of the reasons, but in general, haredim can be seen wearing black hats and believe in the "learn-Torah-only" philosophy to change the world. And the "daas Toyrah" concept that is all the rage these days, really stifles independent thought, and I personally think that is dangerous and wrong for Jewish culture. In truth, there are sources for such a concept and against such a concept, but you wouldn't think that based on hanging out in haredi groups or society. They'd have you believe it's all or nothing, their way, and nothing else is legitimate Judaism. I find that is a problem in general with their outlook on Judaism.
Re: the learn-Torah-only philosophy. A lot gets sacrificed in order to feed such an ideal. Working and feeding family is one of them. I don't believe in that. Orthodox to me is sensible, real Judaism, not an outgrowth over the past century or so. It strives for a balance, ala Rambam, it is in this world, practical, and there is a place for nationalism and activism and the use of one's own intellect and rational thought. And perhaps less mystical. Rabbi Kahane was haredi in observance of halacha, but his hashkafa was certainly not. This is where I probably fall, somewhere in a similar category to him. I identify strongly with Dati Leumi, much more so than Modern Orthodox. I hope I will live in Israel eventually.
(And when I say observance of halacha for Rabbi Kahane, that of course does not include how he viewed his relationship to his Rav, or how he determined when it was appropriate to act for the Jewish people and when it was not. Because in that case, some haredim would argue the halacha is always against that - including his rosh yeshiva who refused to do anything to help Soviet Jews and attacked Rabbi Kahane for doing something. People often cite this rabbi's "disapproval" as somehow making Rabbi Kahane or his views "pasul" chas veshalom. They like to say, look he was an extremist look at what his rosh yeshiva said... yadda yadda yadda. These people are irritating in their ignorance.
I remind them of what I read about the incident where Rabbi Kahane challenged his Rosh Yeshiva by saying something like "you don't believe in activism, you're against the protests and the things I do, fine, I understand that. You can believe that. But not ONE TIME when I was in your yeshiva, did you even once say tehillim or lead a prayer on behalf of Soviet Jews." I think the story goes that the next day that rabbi was having his talmidim say tehillim along with him for Soviet Jews).
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The haredi outlook separates nationalism from Judaism, and to me that is less than honest. That is only one of the reasons, but in general, haredim can be seen wearing black hats and believe in the "learn-Torah-only" philosophy to change the world. And the "daas Toyrah" concept that is all the rage these days, really stifles independent thought, and I personally think that is dangerous and wrong for Jewish culture. In truth, there are sources for such a concept and against such a concept, but you wouldn't think that based on hanging out in haredi groups or society. They'd have you believe it's all or nothing, their way, and nothing else is legitimate Judaism. I find that is a problem in general with their outlook on Judaism.
Re: the learn-Torah-only philosophy. A lot gets sacrificed in order to feed such an ideal. Working and feeding family is one of them. I don't believe in that. Orthodox to me is sensible, real Judaism, not an outgrowth over the past century or so. It strives for a balance, ala Rambam, it is in this world, practical, and there is a place for nationalism and activism and the use of one's own intellect and rational thought. And perhaps less mystical. Rabbi Kahane was haredi in observance of halacha, but his hashkafa was certainly not. This is where I probably fall, somewhere in a similar category to him. I identify strongly with Dati Leumi, much more so than Modern Orthodox. I hope I will live in Israel eventually.
(And when I say observance of halacha for Rabbi Kahane, that of course does not include how he viewed his relationship to his Rav, or how he determined when it was appropriate to act for the Jewish people and when it was not. Because in that case, some haredim would argue the halacha is always against that.)
I agree with this to a great degree.
KWRBT, do you know what Haredim say what you tell them about balance ala Rambam? They state Rambam says: 12 hours of day must be divided in the following way: 3 to study Written Torah, 3 to study Mishnah, 3 to study Talmud (or Halacha, I'm not sure) and 3 to earn a living. I wonder whether he indeed said that and in what context.
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The haredi outlook separates nationalism from Judaism, and to me that is less than honest. That is only one of the reasons, but in general, haredim can be seen wearing black hats and believe in the "learn-Torah-only" philosophy to change the world. And the "daas Toyrah" concept that is all the rage these days, really stifles independent thought, and I personally think that is dangerous and wrong for Jewish culture. In truth, there are sources for such a concept and against such a concept, but you wouldn't think that based on hanging out in haredi groups or society. They'd have you believe it's all or nothing, their way, and nothing else is legitimate Judaism. I find that is a problem in general with their outlook on Judaism.
Re: the learn-Torah-only philosophy. A lot gets sacrificed in order to feed such an ideal. Working and feeding family is one of them. I don't believe in that. Orthodox to me is sensible, real Judaism, not an outgrowth over the past century or so. It strives for a balance, ala Rambam, it is in this world, practical, and there is a place for nationalism and activism and the use of one's own intellect and rational thought. And perhaps less mystical. Rabbi Kahane was haredi in observance of halacha, but his hashkafa was certainly not. This is where I probably fall, somewhere in a similar category to him. I identify strongly with Dati Leumi, much more so than Modern Orthodox. I hope I will live in Israel eventually.
(And when I say observance of halacha for Rabbi Kahane, that of course does not include how he viewed his relationship to his Rav, or how he determined when it was appropriate to act for the Jewish people and when it was not. Because in that case, some haredim would argue the halacha is always against that.)
I agree with this to a great degree.
KWRBT, do you know what Haredim say what you tell them about balance ala Rambam? They state Rambam says: 12 hours of day must be divided in the following way: 3 to study Written Torah, 3 to study Mishnah, 3 to study Talmud (or Halacha, I'm not sure) and 3 to earn a living. I wonder whether he indeed said that and in what context.
I am no Talmid Chocham, yet I somehow manage to spend at least 1 1/2 hours a day in Torah study and about 30 minutes a day in some form of Davening... I want to divide more time for davening because I do believe in some respects davening is more important than studying... I am able to study despite having to work 8 hours a day, and drive for 2 hours a day... I study by burning MP3 shuirs on cds I listen to while driving to work, and when I get home I watch a Rabbi talk... This is not quite studying like in Yeshiva, but combined with the reading of the Jewish books in my library I believe I can count these hours for Torah study...
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The haredi outlook separates nationalism from Judaism, and to me that is less than honest. That is only one of the reasons, but in general, haredim can be seen wearing black hats and believe in the "learn-Torah-only" philosophy to change the world. And the "daas Toyrah" concept that is all the rage these days, really stifles independent thought, and I personally think that is dangerous and wrong for Jewish culture. In truth, there are sources for such a concept and against such a concept, but you wouldn't think that based on hanging out in haredi groups or society. They'd have you believe it's all or nothing, their way, and nothing else is legitimate Judaism. I find that is a problem in general with their outlook on Judaism.
Re: the learn-Torah-only philosophy. A lot gets sacrificed in order to feed such an ideal. Working and feeding family is one of them. I don't believe in that. Orthodox to me is sensible, real Judaism, not an outgrowth over the past century or so. It strives for a balance, ala Rambam, it is in this world, practical, and there is a place for nationalism and activism and the use of one's own intellect and rational thought. And perhaps less mystical. Rabbi Kahane was haredi in observance of halacha, but his hashkafa was certainly not. This is where I probably fall, somewhere in a similar category to him. I identify strongly with Dati Leumi, much more so than Modern Orthodox. I hope I will live in Israel eventually.
(And when I say observance of halacha for Rabbi Kahane, that of course does not include how he viewed his relationship to his Rav, or how he determined when it was appropriate to act for the Jewish people and when it was not. Because in that case, some haredim would argue the halacha is always against that.)
I agree with this to a great degree.
KWRBT, do you know what Haredim say what you tell them about balance ala Rambam? They state Rambam says: 12 hours of day must be divided in the following way: 3 to study Written Torah, 3 to study Mishnah, 3 to study Talmud (or Halacha, I'm not sure) and 3 to earn a living. I wonder whether he indeed said that and in what context.
I am no Talmid Chocham, yet I somehow manage to spend at least 1 1/2 hours a day in Torah study and about 30 minutes a day in some form of Davening... I want to divide more time for davening because I do believe in some respects davening is more important than studying... I am able to study despite having to work 8 hours a day, and drive for 2 hours a day... I study by burning MP3 shuirs on cds I listen to while driving to work, and when I get home I watch a Rabbi talk... This is not quite studying like in Yeshiva, but combined with the reading of the Jewish books in my library I believe I can count these hours for Torah study...
Hey Muman, that is great! Keep it up. Some day you will become a talmid chacham, (maybe you really are now) even if you will be too humble to admit it.
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The haredi outlook separates nationalism from Judaism, and to me that is less than honest. That is only one of the reasons, but in general, haredim can be seen wearing black hats and believe in the "learn-Torah-only" philosophy to change the world. And the "daas Toyrah" concept that is all the rage these days, really stifles independent thought, and I personally think that is dangerous and wrong for Jewish culture. In truth, there are sources for such a concept and against such a concept, but you wouldn't think that based on hanging out in haredi groups or society. They'd have you believe it's all or nothing, their way, and nothing else is legitimate Judaism. I find that is a problem in general with their outlook on Judaism.
Re: the learn-Torah-only philosophy. A lot gets sacrificed in order to feed such an ideal. Working and feeding family is one of them. I don't believe in that. Orthodox to me is sensible, real Judaism, not an outgrowth over the past century or so. It strives for a balance, ala Rambam, it is in this world, practical, and there is a place for nationalism and activism and the use of one's own intellect and rational thought. And perhaps less mystical. Rabbi Kahane was haredi in observance of halacha, but his hashkafa was certainly not. This is where I probably fall, somewhere in a similar category to him. I identify strongly with Dati Leumi, much more so than Modern Orthodox. I hope I will live in Israel eventually.
(And when I say observance of halacha for Rabbi Kahane, that of course does not include how he viewed his relationship to his Rav, or how he determined when it was appropriate to act for the Jewish people and when it was not. Because in that case, some haredim would argue the halacha is always against that.)
I agree with this to a great degree.
KWRBT, do you know what Haredim say what you tell them about balance ala Rambam? They state Rambam says: 12 hours of day must be divided in the following way: 3 to study Written Torah, 3 to study Mishnah, 3 to study Talmud (or Halacha, I'm not sure) and 3 to earn a living. I wonder whether he indeed said that and in what context.
If it was still possible to earn a living in 3 hours a day , of course! Times obviously change, and Rambam was writing about what was feasible and relevant in his day. I'd like to see a person born to a middle class family (or even upper class if their not filthy rich) try to pay for yeshiva tuitions, car payment, school taxes, utility bills etc with 3 hours a day working. Hell, if I could only work 3 hours a day and make ends meet, pay all the bills and all the taxes, yeah that'd be great! Of course I would love to spend the rest of that time studying Torah.
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<snip>
Hey Muman, that is great! Keep it up. Some day you will become a talmid chacham, (maybe you really are now) even if you will be too humble to admit it.
KWRBT,
Thank you so much for the kind words... I really have a lot of work to do. I get strength from your wisdom also...
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Atheist vs. Agnostic: What's the difference?
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Atheist vs. Agnostic: What's the difference?
From what I understand it is like this:
Atheist : Doesn't believe there is a G-d, knows that there isn't
Agnostic : Doesn't know if he/she believes, maybe there is, maybe there isn't...
Something like that..
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Atheist vs. Agnostic: What's the difference?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic
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Atheist vs. Agnostic: What's the difference?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic
Basically my definition is true according to wikipedia...
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Atheist vs. Agnostic: What's the difference?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic
Basically my definition is true according to wikipedia...
Yes but the links go more indept into the two
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<snip>
Yes but the links go more indept into the two
That is certainly true... I know that my definition is very simplistic...
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I guess the best way to put it is that I'm a non practicing orthodox Jew..but the thing is I do my best
i was previously part of the conservative movement, but no longer associate myself with them..best to say that the more authentic Judaism is orthodoxy..
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Not Jewish: Noachide
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I guess the best way to put it is that I'm a non practicing orthodox Jew..but the thing is I do my best
i was previously part of the conservative movement, but no longer associate myself with them..best to say that the more authentic Judaism is orthodoxy..
I heard conservative judaism was identical to orthodox in the 70's, I know that a lot of the rabbis from the conservative movement in the 70's had Orthodox s'micha.
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It is hard to classify myself. I am very strict and observant in the things that I do, although I am not very demanding towards others. I eat kosher, do my prayers, rest on Shabbes etc.
But I do not regulary attend the synagogue since the community of my city reformed and too modern in some questions. But if I was a conservative Jew I would attend the synagogue anyway. I have problems to identify with people discussing their new clothes, last journeys and other such stuff in a synagogue. DO IT AT HOME!!!!
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I guess the best way to put it is that I'm a non practicing orthodox Jew..but the thing is I do my best
i was previously part of the conservative movement, but no longer associate myself with them..best to say that the more authentic Judaism is orthodoxy..
I heard conservative judaism was identical to orthodox in the 70's, I know that a lot of the rabbis from the conservative movement in the 70's had Orthodox s'micha.
Some of the leaders of conservative Judaism in the early days wrapped tefillin, kept the mitzvot, etc. Nowadays the only thing a conservative rabbi wraps is a ham and cheese sandwich in plastic wrap for the road. (that was censored since I know some people are sensitive to certain food types being mentioned here).
I wouldn't say "identical" - The movements were different but some of the "conservative" rabbis were really Orthodox rabbis who took jobs as conservative rabbis or cantors in the conservative shul because back then orthodoxy was very small and there weren't so many jobs available for orthodox rabbis. But the conservative populace was not orthodox, although more traditional than current conservative groups. Eventually the movement and the populace outgrew the pious orthodox individuals who may have been involved. That's my take on it.
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OY who cares what sect of Judaism we are anymore,lol???? We are one nation united against the enemy. ANACHNU YEHUDIM!!!! KOL YISRAEL ACHIM! Please watch and lean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1znKbTjOTVo&feature=PlayList&p=0DF80593EA470EE2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1znKbTjOTVo&feature=PlayList&p=0DF80593EA470EE2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3)
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OY who cares what sect of Judaism we are anymore,lol???? We are one nation united against the enemy. ANACHNU YEHUDIM!!!! KOL YISRAEL ACHIM! Please watch and lean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1znKbTjOTVo&feature=PlayList&p=0DF80593EA470EE2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1znKbTjOTVo&feature=PlayList&p=0DF80593EA470EE2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3)
Kol HaKavod!
When this thread was started, with six {I mean seven} different Jewish divisions, this is exactly what I thought...
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OY who cares what sect of Judaism we are anymore,lol???? We are one nation united against the enemy. ANACHNU YEHUDIM!!!! KOL YISRAEL ACHIM! Please watch and lean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1znKbTjOTVo&feature=PlayList&p=0DF80593EA470EE2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1znKbTjOTVo&feature=PlayList&p=0DF80593EA470EE2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3)
Kol HaKavod!
When this thread was started, with six {I mean seven} different Jewish divisions, this is exactly what I thought...
Muman, it's already been established that we were probably the same person in a different life. Great minds think alike.