JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: The One and Only Mo on December 03, 2009, 11:25:02 AM
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TO HOMOSEXUALITY! no joke. My mom knows thing guy from a long time ago who happens to be a faygele. Anywho, they just reconnected on facebook and he asked about me. He told my mom, I gotta talk to your son and tell him it's okay to be a homo. He also made a similar comment years ago,lol. I'll see if I can get the convo,lol. He and his husband are adopting a baby, btw.
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TO HOMOSEXUALITY! no joke. My mom knows thing guy from a long time ago who happens to be a faygele. Anywho, they just reconnected on facebook and he asked about me. He told my mom, I gotta talk to your son and tell him it's okay to be a homo. He also made a similar comment years ago,lol. I'll see if I can get the convo,lol. He and his husband are adopting a baby, btw.
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Oh for a minute I thought you were serious. ;D
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TO HOMOSEXUALITY! no joke. My mom knows thing guy from a long time ago who happens to be a faygele. Anywho, they just reconnected on facebook and he asked about me. He told my mom, I gotta talk to your son and tell him it's okay to be a homo. He also made a similar comment years ago,lol. I'll see if I can get the convo,lol. He and his husband are adopting a baby, btw.
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Oh for a minute I thought you were serious. ;D
I am, this happened, my mom told me this morning.
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Homomanfreaks aren't allowed to adopt a baby. I don't know about Lesos though.
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Homomanfreaks aren't allowed to adopt a baby. I don't know about Lesos though.
Well, he told me mom he's trying to do it....I dunno if he and his partner are doing it legally, but they want to raise it together.
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Homomanfreaks aren't allowed to adopt a baby. I don't know about Lesos though.
Well, he told me mom he's trying to do it....I dunno if he and his partner are doing it legally, but they want to raise it together.
That is beyond sick
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Homomanfreaks aren't allowed to adopt a baby. I don't know about Lesos though.
Well, he told me mom he's trying to do it....I dunno if he and his partner are doing it legally, but they want to raise it together.
That is beyond sick
That he wants me to convert or that he's adopting? :::D
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Homomanfreaks aren't allowed to adopt a baby. I don't know about Lesos though.
Well, he told me mom he's trying to do it....I dunno if he and his partner are doing it legally, but they want to raise it together.
That is beyond sick
That he wants me to convert or that he's adopting? :::D
Both but more about the adoption.
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I thought single people were allowed to adopt as long as they were rich enough and don't have a criminal record.
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Wow. Thats freaken scary.
Why would the guy think you are a homo?
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Projecting, he's a homo so he thinks (or wants to believe) that other people are like him.
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Scary but you can't convert someone to a Homosexual. Either you are born as one or not.
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Scary but you can't convert someone to a Homosexual. Either you are born as one or not.
Nobody is born Gay
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בס"ד
Scary but you can't convert someone to a Homosexual. Either you are born as one or not.
Nobody is born Gay
You got that right
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Scary but you can't convert someone to a Homosexual. Either you are born as one or not.
Nobody is born Gay
I don't think so. If you are very young (13 - 15) you decide if you will be gay or not. It happens with very young age.
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בס"ד
Scary but you can't convert someone to a Homosexual. Either you are born as one or not.
Nobody is born Gay
I don't think so. If you are very young (13 - 15) you decide if you will be gay or not. It happens with very young age.
False. You can choose whether to act gay or not. Being gay is against nature and if it genetic nobody would have been born. Also there is no so-called Homosexual "gene".
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Projecting, he's a homo so he thinks (or wants to believe) that other people are like him.
Yup, and a big reason I can't stand homos in general. I find the behavior deplorable, but the fact that they try to shove it down your throat (no pun intended) 24/7 is what really irks me. If they didn't flamboyantly broadcast their preference and seek SPECIAL rights, not just equal rights, I probably wouldn't mind them that much.
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Scary but you can't convert someone to a Homosexual. Either you are born as one or not.
Nobody is born Gay
I don't think so. If you are very young (13 - 15) you decide if you will be gay or not. It happens with very young age.
How are people born 13 years old? :laugh:
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Scary but you can't convert someone to a Homosexual. Either you are born as one or not.
Nobody is born Gay
I don't think so. If you are very young (13 - 15) you decide if you will be gay or not. It happens with very young age.
How are people born 13 years old? :laugh:
I mean they are young and easy to impress.
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For a minute I thought this was some kind of joke :o
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Scary but you can't convert someone to a Homosexual. Either you are born as one or not.
Nobody is born Gay
I don't think so. If you are very young (13 - 15) you decide if you will be gay or not. It happens with very young age.
How are people born 13 years old? :laugh:
I mean they are young and easy to impress.
Well when I was that age I was never impressed by 2 fags kissing. I would instinctively know it was wrong. Wouldn't you?
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Scary but you can't convert someone to a Homosexual. Either you are born as one or not.
Nobody is born Gay
I don't think so. If you are very young (13 - 15) you decide if you will be gay or not. It happens with very young age.
How are people born 13 years old? :laugh:
I mean they are young and easy to impress.
Well when I was that age I was never impressed by 2 fags kissing. I would instinctively know it was wrong. Wouldn't you?
Of course I would have known that it is wrong!
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That is pretty disturbing. I have had gotten unwanted attention from gays before.
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Scary but you can't convert someone to a Homosexual. Either you are born as one or not.
Nobody is born Gay
I don't think so. If you are very young (13 - 15) you decide if you will be gay or not. It happens with very young age.
How are people born 13 years old? :laugh:
I mean they are young and easy to impress.
Well when I was that age I was never impressed by 2 fags kissing. I would instinctively know it was wrong. Wouldn't you?
Of course I would have known that it is wrong!
So if you knew that then why are you making excuses for gays.
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That is pretty disturbing. I have had gotten unwanted attention from gays before.
I hope you had a gun with you.
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Homomanfreaks aren't allowed to adopt a baby. I don't know about Lesos though.
I don't really have problems with gay people adopting as long as it means the child will be raised in a nice environment.
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I never heard of such a thing, either if your an adolescent tell your family and have them speak to him.If your older tell him to bug off or if you won't lose your job confront him
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Homomanfreaks aren't allowed to adopt a baby. I don't know about Lesos though.
I don't really have problems with gay people adopting as long as it means the child will be raised in a nice environment.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh we have an appeaser to fags.
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Gay marriage, Gay kisses, Gay sex, Gay thoughts, Gay adoption Gay parades, Gay rights is all wrong
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Scary but you can't convert someone to a Homosexual. Either you are born as one or not.
Nobody is born Gay
I don't think so. If you are very young (13 - 15) you decide if you will be gay or not. It happens with very young age.
How are people born 13 years old? :laugh:
I mean they are young and easy to impress.
Well when I was that age I was never impressed by 2 fags kissing. I would instinctively know it was wrong. Wouldn't you?
Of course I would have known that it is wrong!
So if you knew that then why are you making excuses for gays.
I don't protect or make excuses for gays. Everyone of us know that they aren't normal.
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Scary but you can't convert someone to a Homosexual. Either you are born as one or not.
Nobody is born Gay
I don't think so. If you are very young (13 - 15) you decide if you will be gay or not. It happens with very young age.
How are people born 13 years old? :laugh:
I mean they are young and easy to impress.
Well when I was that age I was never impressed by 2 fags kissing. I would instinctively know it was wrong. Wouldn't you?
Of course I would have known that it is wrong!
So if you knew that then why are you making excuses for gays.
I don't protect or make excuses for gays. Everyone of us know that they aren't normal.
Yes but you said they were "born gay".
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Homomanfreaks aren't allowed to adopt a baby. I don't know about Lesos though.
I don't really have problems with gay people adopting as long as it means the child will be raised in a nice environment.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh we have an appeaser to fags.
Dude you need to chill. It's better that there not raised in an orphanage
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Scary but you can't convert someone to a Homosexual. Either you are born as one or not.
Nobody is born Gay
I don't think so. If you are very young (13 - 15) you decide if you will be gay or not. It happens with very young age.
How are people born 13 years old? :laugh:
I mean they are young and easy to impress.
Well when I was that age I was never impressed by 2 fags kissing. I would instinctively know it was wrong. Wouldn't you?
Of course I would have known that it is wrong!
So if you knew that then why are you making excuses for gays.
I don't protect or make excuses for gays. Everyone of us know that they aren't normal.
Yes but you said they were "born gay".
If I say "born" it means also growing. But whatever. I think everyone know my views.
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Homomanfreaks aren't allowed to adopt a baby. I don't know about Lesos though.
I don't really have problems with gay people adopting as long as it means the child will be raised in a nice environment.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh we have an appeaser to fags.
Dude you need to chill. It's better that there not raised in an orphanage
No it's not. Tell me how that is so?
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Homomanfreaks aren't allowed to adopt a baby. I don't know about Lesos though.
I don't really have problems with gay people adopting as long as it means the child will be raised in a nice environment.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh we have an appeaser to fags.
Dude you need to chill. It's better that there not raised in an orphanage
No it's not. Tell me how that is so?
In orphanages children don't get individual attention. Also there more pressing matters rather than worrying about some kid having two dads.
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Never relent against the gay agenda.... I am growing more and more upset that we havent stood firm against the gay 'revolution'... Now that people are sticking their fingers into Hashems eye and flaunting there perversions it is time for the righteous to stand their ground.
The other night in a videogame I play someone made a comment which was disparaging to straight men... I retorted with an insult to gays and this one guy starting saying I hated gays... I stood up and said "YES! I think its sick!" and then he got all bent out of shape... He started it with his insult against straight men, and when I called him a fag... he was offended... This sickness must stop!
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Homomanfreaks aren't allowed to adopt a baby. I don't know about Lesos though.
I don't really have problems with gay people adopting as long as it means the child will be raised in a nice environment.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh we have an appeaser to fags.
Dude you need to chill. It's better that there not raised in an orphanage
No it's not. Tell me how that is so?
In orphanages children don't get individual attention. Also there more pressing matters rather than worrying about some kid having two dads.
Having two fathers or two mothers is a form of child abuse. Gays cannot act normal in society by being gay, therefore they will never become good parents. They only want to adopt to show off to normal people that they can be normal too and have a family. If they really wanted children, then they would throw out their perverse feelings and raise a family of their own.
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Homomanfreaks aren't allowed to adopt a baby. I don't know about Lesos though.
I don't really have problems with gay people adopting as long as it means the child will be raised in a nice environment.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh we have an appeaser to fags.
Dude you need to chill. It's better that there not raised in an orphanage
No it's not. Tell me how that is so?
In orphanages children don't get individual attention. Also there more pressing matters rather than worrying about some kid having two dads.
You are right IMO. I know I would rather be raised by two dads , assuming they are caring and competent.
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I'm gonna turn the tables and try to "convert" him.
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Good on ya! See how he likes the treatment...
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Homosexuality is a religion?! :laugh:
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Homosexuality is a religion?! :laugh:
it's that and more.
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Some people can be converted to gay at a very young age... look at the Spartans.
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God created everyone and He did not make gays, being gay is a demon-perverted choice. They should have stayed in "the closet." >:(
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G-d created everyone and He did not make gays, being gay is a demon-perverted choice. They should have stayed in "the closet." >:(
This is a heretical statement you made...
Hashem is the master of the universe, he made everything, gays included... There is not one thing in all of physicality which Hashem did not create... I think I dont understand why you said this..
PS: In Judaism having homosexual intercourse is no worse than desecrating Shabbat, both require the death penalty... They both desecrate the name of G-d.
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G-d created everyone and He did not make gays, being gay is a demon-perverted choice. They should have stayed in "the closet." >:(
This is a heretical statement you made...
Hashem is the master of the universe, he made everything, gays included... There is not one thing in all of physicality which Hashem did not create... I think I dont understand why you said this..
PS: In Judaism having homosexual intercourse is no worse than desecrating Shabbat, both require the death penalty... They both desecrate the name of G-d.
She's not Jewish so she didn't say anything wrong.
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G-d created everyone and He did not make gays, being gay is a demon-perverted choice. They should have stayed in "the closet." >:(
This is a heretical statement you made...
Hashem is the master of the universe, he made everything, gays included... There is not one thing in all of physicality which Hashem did not create... I think I dont understand why you said this..
PS: In Judaism having homosexual intercourse is no worse than desecrating Shabbat, both require the death penalty... They both desecrate the name of G-d.
She's not Jewish so she didn't say anything wrong.
If Hashem didn't create them, who did?
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G-d created everyone and He did not make gays, being gay is a demon-perverted choice. They should have stayed in "the closet." >:(
This is a heretical statement you made...
Hashem is the master of the universe, he made everything, gays included... There is not one thing in all of physicality which Hashem did not create... I think I dont understand why you said this..
PS: In Judaism having homosexual intercourse is no worse than desecrating Shabbat, both require the death penalty... They both desecrate the name of G-d.
She's not Jewish so she didn't say anything wrong.
If Hashem didn't create them, who did?
Non-Jews don't believe in Hashem.
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(Not fair........you guys type faster than me.)
God made Adam & Eve........not Adam & Steve. God gave everyone a freewill. Satan comes to Rob,Steal and Destroy...... Homosexuality is a Choice.
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if Hashem is another word for God. Yes I believe in Him, His Son and His Holy Spirit.
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if Hashem is another word for G-d. Yes I believe in Him, His Son and His Holy Spirit.
Once again you are stating Heresy according to Jewish belief... You believe in Three G-ds, heaven fofend! Im sorry that you find a need to do so...
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Hashem is One, His name is One!
http://www.neveh.org/ciner/parsha60/vayachee.html
The Ohr Gedalyahu explains the exact moment when Yaakov reached this state. When Yaakov arrived in Mitzrayim he had an emotion-filled reunion with his long lost son, Yosef. “He (Yosef) appeared before him (Yaakov) and fell on his neck and wept. [46:29]”
Yosef fell on the neck of his father and wept. The passuk {verse} pointedly writes this in the singular. Yosef was crying on his father's neck. His father, Yaakov, wasn’t crying on his neck. What was he doing? Rashi brings from the Medrash that he was reciting the ‘Shma’ prayer: Hear Israel, Hashem is our G-d (Elokim), Hashem is One.
The questions are very obvious. Why did Yaakov decide to say Shma precisely at the moment when he sees his beloved son after a twenty-two year separation? Not five minutes earlier, not five minutes later! Furthermore, if this actually was the only time to say it, why didn’t Yosef also recite the Shma?
The Mahara”l explains beautifully that at that moment, Yaakov’s heart was filled with a most incredible, all-encompassing feeling of love. Yaakov didn’t want to let that once in a lifetime opportunity pass without utilizing it to its full potential. He wanted to channel that feeling toward Hashem. At the moment when Yosef came to him, when the feeling of love was at its strongest, he said the ‘Shma.’
However, based on what we’ve said so far, the Ohr Gedalyahu offers a different explanation.
“Hear Israel, Hashem is our G-d (Elokim), Hashem is One.” We have different names for Hashem, each describing a different way that He deals with and interacts with this world. He is called Hashem, referring to His compassion. He is called Elokim, referring to His judgment. In this confusing world there are different names for what we view as almost contradictory ways that Hashem acts. Ultimately, Hashem will be one and His name will be One. Ultimately, we will achieve that understanding that there was no contradiction whatsoever in the myriad ways that He dealt with this world. There were no separate situations of ‘tov’ {good} and ‘ra’ {evil}—Hashem is Elokim. His name will be One.
“Hear Israel, Hashem is our Elokim, Hashem is One.” That is a proclamation of our belief that we will ultimately reach that understanding and clarity.
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Let us remember that we are not trying to convince anyone about anything. I am just stating from the Jewish perspective these ideas (G-d didn't create everything in physicality and the Trinity) are Avodah Zarah and a Jew should not even think like that...
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if Hashem is another word for G-d. Yes I believe in Him, His Son and His Holy Spirit.
In that case, it's a good thing you're not Jewish :whew:
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if Hashem is another word for G-d. Yes I believe in Him, His Son and His Holy Spirit.
Once again you are stating Heresy according to Jewish belief... You believe in Three G-ds, heaven fofend! Im sorry that you find a need to do so...
Since you guys are clearing up some Jewish ideas, I feel I should clear this up.
Christianity is a monotheistic religion as well. There is one God, God the father, God the son, God the holy spirit. It's called the Holy Trinity. Water is liquid, ice, and vapor, but it's all still water. Man is physical, mental and spiritual, but a man nonetheless.
Chaim incorrectly called Christianity a polytheistic religion recently as well. You can sit here and debate why these beliefs are silly or incorrect, but the official Christian position is that it is a monotheistic religion.
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if Hashem is another word for G-d. Yes I believe in Him, His Son and His Holy Spirit.
Once again you are stating Heresy according to Jewish belief... You believe in Three G-ds, heaven fofend! Im sorry that you find a need to do so...
Since you guys are clearing up some Jewish ideas, I feel I should clear this up.
Christianity is a monotheistic religion as well. There is one G-d, G-d the father, G-d the son, G-d the holy spirit. It's called the Holy Trinity. Water is liquid, ice, and vapor, but it's all still water. Man is physical, mental and spiritual, but a man nonetheless.
Chaim incorrectly called Christianity a polytheistic religion recently as well. You can sit here and debate why these beliefs are silly or incorrect, but the official Christian position is that it is a monotheistic religion.
Just to clarify, when referring to the Christian god, according to Judaism, one should say god. G-d only pertains to Hashem.
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if Hashem is another word for G-d. Yes I believe in Him, His Son and His Holy Spirit.
Once again you are stating Heresy according to Jewish belief... You believe in Three G-ds, heaven fofend! Im sorry that you find a need to do so...
Since you guys are clearing up some Jewish ideas, I feel I should clear this up.
Christianity is a monotheistic religion as well. There is one G-d, G-d the father, G-d the son, G-d the holy spirit. It's called the Holy Trinity. Water is liquid, ice, and vapor, but it's all still water. Man is physical, mental and spiritual, but a man nonetheless.
Chaim incorrectly called Christianity a polytheistic religion recently as well. You can sit here and debate why these beliefs are silly or incorrect, but the official Christian position is that it is a monotheistic religion.
Thank You! Patches ;D ;D ;D I didn't know how explain it in reasonable terms.
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yes Patches, thankyou.
Christians and Jews believe in the same God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. We learn all these things in Sunday school..while growing up, I heard the bibles stories from the Tanach too....Moses and Pharoh (that one we hear alot, especially around Passover) Noah and the Ark, Adam and Eve, Abraham and Isaac...Joseph and his brothers and that entire story of Joseph and how God used him in Egypt....Miriam and Moses and the Red sea, the story of Job (even his wife came against him) Ruth and Naomi.....(your God will be my God, remember?)...Boaz......, oh and one of MY favorites, David and Goliah and later we hear all about his problem with Bathsheba , but He was a man after God's own heart.
Gideon......
Joshua and the battle of Jericho and they marched around the city, if I remember correctly, was it 7 times? or ten times? :-[
Let's not forget the Story of Ninevah and how Jonah ended up in the belly of the whale for was it 3 days?
I could go on and on...
Yes, we believe in the SAME and only ONE TRUE GOD!
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Christianity is very different from Judaism... I will not go into the differences because it may hurt some people... But suffice to say if they are the same many Jews have died for no reason... A non-Jew will not be able to understand the differences because your scriptures have been altered to fit the Christian understanding of Jewish teachings....
Do not suggest that they are the same... It does nobody any good... If you believe in Torah you should convert to Judaism otherwise stick with your own religion...
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I don't find anything wrong with what Pennyjangle wrote. You all agree that homosexuality is not automatic or genetic, right? So when she wrote that becoming homosexual/gay is a choice, she was kind of agreeing with you.
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Now back to the original topic i don't understand your problem .If your mothers friend wants you to become gay tell him you have no interest and to take a walk
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I don't find anything wrong with what Pennyjangle wrote. You all agree that homosexuality is not automatic or genetic, right? So when she wrote that becoming homosexual/gay is a choice, she was kind of agreeing with you.
Thank You Very Much Lisa :whew:
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Mo, I didnt have any B.F's hardly b4. I had gained weight, My Nana (Of blessed memory) wanted me to 'come to terms, with my lesbianism' she set up a dinner just to SET ME UP! I was so appalled and so hurt... I went to the bathroom, begging G-d, what do I do!!
And, guess what... the whole situation turned around, and we started reading the psalms that were in this mans house. DO NOT give in to this EVIL. I know that your mom is not evil, of course, but this is a very bad thing. You stay CLOSE to your Torah, it is the TRUTH.
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Now back to the original topic i don't understand your problem .If your mothers friend wants you to become gay tell him you have no interest and to take a walk
I think you guys misunderstood. I'm just pointing out how funny it was.
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Mo, I didnt have any B.F's hardly b4. I had gained weight, My Nana (Of blessed memory) wanted me to 'come to terms, with my lesbianism' she set up a dinner just to SET ME UP! I was so appalled and so hurt... I went to the bathroom, begging G-d, what do I do!!
And, guess what... the whole situation turned around, and we started reading the psalms that were in this mans house. DO NOT give in to this EVIL. I know that your mom is not evil, of course, but this is a very bad thing. You stay CLOSE to your Torah, it is the TRUTH.
I was just pointing out how funny it was. My mom was laughing, also because she knows it's ridiculous too. Don't worry...there are a million things I'd do before I'd turn gay......one of them would be suicide :::D :::D :::D
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בס"ד
yes Patches, thankyou.
Christians and Jews believe in the same G-d, the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. We learn all these things in Sunday school..while growing up, I heard the bibles stories from The Tanach too....Moses and Pharoh (that one we hear alot, especially around Passover) Noah and the Ark, Adam and Eve, Abraham and Isaac...Joseph and his brothers and that entire story of Joseph and how G-d used him in Egypt....Miriam and Moses and the Red sea, the story of Job (even his wife came against him) Ruth and Naomi.....(your G-d will be my G-d, remember?)...Boaz......, oh and one of MY favorites, David and Goliah and later we hear all about his problem with Bathsheba , but He was a man after G-d's own heart.
Gideon......
Joshua and the battle of Jericho and they marched around the city, if I remember correctly, was it 7 times? or ten times? :-[
Let's not forget the Story of Ninevah and how Jonah ended up in the belly of the whale for was it 3 days?
I could go on and on...
Yes, we believe in the SAME and only ONE TRUE G-d!
We don't (I don't want it to sound like I'm saying that there are more G-ds, no, G-D forbid, the only ONE G-D is HaShem).
Christianity is a polytheistic religion - maybe according to Christianity 3 things assemble divinity and that's one the most polytheistic principles of Christianity.
HaShem is one and He's made out of nothing. He has created anythin and we as humans are unable to understand His nautre (or essence, donno how to explain it in English).
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The G-d of the Jews isn't Jesus. Nowhere in the Torah does it discuss G-d taking a human form, living, or dying. If Christianity teaches it's the same then that's a Christian belief, and the farthest thing from Judaism.
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בס"ד
The G-d of the Jews isn't Jesus. Nowhere in the Torah does it discuss G-d taking a human form, living, or dying. If Christianity teaches it's the same then that's a Christian belief, and the farthest thing from Judaism.
Are you talking to me? You know Jesus is nothing more than a Rasha, Mesit and Medi'ach.
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בס"ד
The G-d of the Jews isn't Jesus. Nowhere in the Torah does it discuss G-d taking a human form, living, or dying. If Christianity teaches it's the same then that's a Christian belief, and the farthest thing from Judaism.
Are you talking to me? You know Jesus is nothing more than a Rasha, Mesit and Medi'ach.
Why would I be telling that to you?
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בס"ד
בס"ד
The G-d of the Jews isn't Jesus. Nowhere in the Torah does it discuss G-d taking a human form, living, or dying. If Christianity teaches it's the same then that's a Christian belief, and the farthest thing from Judaism.
Are you talking to me? You know Jesus is nothing more than a Rasha, Mesit and Medi'ach.
Why would I be telling that to you?
Only askin ::)
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I disagree with you, you disagree with me...
Please do not smite me....
:-X
The G-d of the Jews isn't Jesus. Nowhere in the Torah does it discuss G-d taking a human form, living, or dying. If Christianity teaches it's the same then that's a Christian belief, and the farthest thing from Judaism.
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I disagree with you, you disagree with me...
Please do not smite me....
:-X
The G-d of the Jews isn't Jesus. Nowhere in the Torah does it discuss G-d taking a human form, living, or dying. If Christianity teaches it's the same then that's a Christian belief, and the farthest thing from Judaism.
LOL Hanna, no Jew believes that Jesus is anything more than a wicked individual. It's a ridiculous concept to believe that Jews believe in Jesus in any way, shape or form. Most charedim in Israel growing up don't even know who Jesus was, what Christmas is, or what Christianity is until they get a bit older.....
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Christmas, actually, has had alot of paganism thrown into it...... >:( He was born in the summertime I believe, not in December, that is some pagan G-d worship thing going on there...."Christians" really should celebrate Hannakuh, when it gets down to it...but I can not judge. Many "christians" that I know, over the years, have stopped celebrating "christmas" alltogether now.
our society has gotten way into commercialism and all of that, along with that.
I disagree with you, you disagree with me...
Please do not smite me....
:-X
The G-d of the Jews isn't Jesus. Nowhere in the Torah does it discuss G-d taking a human form, living, or dying. If Christianity teaches it's the same then that's a Christian belief, and the farthest thing from Judaism.
LOL Hanna, no Jew believes that Jesus is anything more than a wicked individual. It's a ridiculous concept to believe that Jews believe in Jesus in any way, shape or form. Most charedim in Israel growing up don't even know who Jesus was, what Christmas is, or what Christianity is until they get a bit older.....
[quote author=Mo2388 link=topic=40598.msg403745#msg403745 date=126006857
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You guys, we all know the differences between Christianity and Judaism. There's no need to bash the Christians over the head about it.
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its ok Lisa, I have been treated much worse....lol.
That is why I was joking about the smiting...
and on occasion I say "please, do not throw rocks at me"...
I have a weird sense of humor, I know.
You guys, we all know the differences between Christianity and Judaism. There's no need to bash the Christians over the head about it.
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You guys, we all know the differences between Christianity and Judaism. There's no need to bash the Christians over the head about it.
We, Jews, know the diff, but the Christians don't. THAT'S the point here, Lisa.
-
This is shocking that a mom would say this to her child. It is not ok to be a homo. Leviticus 18:22 says: Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 20:13- If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman both of them have done what is destestable. They must be put to death: their blood will be on their own heads.
Romans 1:24- Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves due penalty for their perversion.
Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Sodom and Gomorah.
You can't get any clearer than this.
We just discussed this in a bible class, because many people were told to not be judgemental about gays. The scriptures do not Lie! Homosexuality is an abomination in God's eyes.
-
This is shocking that a mom would say this to her child. It is not ok to be a homo. Leviticus 18:22 says: Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 20:13- If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman both of them have done what is destestable. They must be put to death: their blood will be on their own heads.
Romans 1:24- Therefore G-d gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of G-d for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this G-d gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves due penalty for their perversion.
Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Sodom and Gomorah.
You can't get any clearer than this.
We just discussed this in a bible class, because many people were told to not be judgemental about gays. The scriptures do not Lie! Homosexuality is an abomination in G-d's eyes.
My mom just told me what her gay friend said and we both laughed about it. Maybe you misread my initial post.
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Sorry, Didn't mean to offend anyone. I just know there is alot of misconception out there about the gay lifestyle. Man is given free will, how he uses it is up to him and choices will influence our futures dramatically.
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Sorry, Didn't mean to offend anyone. I just know there is alot of misconception out there about the gay lifestyle. Man is given free will, how he uses it is up to him and choices will influence our futures dramatically.
It's not about that, it's about you blaming my mom for something because you weren't clear in your understanding about this amusing story.
-
This is shocking that a mom would say this to her child. It is not ok to be a homo. Leviticus 18:22 says: Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 20:13- If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman both of them have done what is destestable. They must be put to death: their blood will be on their own heads.
Romans 1:24- Therefore G-d gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of G-d for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this G-d gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves due penalty for their perversion.
Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Sodom and Gomorah.
You can't get any clearer than this.
We just discussed this in a bible class, because many people were told to not be judgemental about gays. The scriptures do not Lie! Homosexuality is an abomination in G-d's eyes.
Debbie, you realize that Romans is not considered Scripture according to the Jewish Tanach.
The only thing which Torah prohibits is man on man sex... As long as a man doesnt physically sleep with another man it doesnt matter what they are attracted to... The act is the thing which the Torah clearly prohibits. I realize that Christianity goes farther and condemns anyone with attraction to the same sex as a sinner.... This is clearly not a Jewish belief.
I can bring you many proofs of this point. But I am not defending gay behaviour. It is just as much a sin to violate the Shabbat as it is to be gay... They both deserve the death penalty. Which is worse? Neither is worse, they are equally abominable to Hashem, though Torah only talks about man-on-man sex twice which the violation of Shabbat is mentioned many more times.
http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm
Homosexuality
Sexual relations between men are clearly forbidden by the Torah. (Lev. 18:22). Such acts are condemned in the strongest possible terms, as abhorrent. The only other sexual sin that is described in such strong terms is the sin of remarrying a woman you had divorced after she had been married to another man. (See Deut. 24:4). The sin of sexual relations between men is punishable by death (Lev. 20:13), as are the sins of adultery and incest.
It is important to note, however, that it is homosexual acts that are forbidden, not homosexual orientation. Judaism focuses on a person's actions rather than a person's desires. A man's desire to have sex with another man is not a sin, so long as he does not act upon that desire. In fact, it could be said that a man who feels such desires but does not act upon them is worthy of more merit in that regard than a man who does not feel such desires at all, just as one who refrains from pork because it is forbidden deserves more merit than one who refrains from pork because he doesn't like the taste.
I have seen some modern Orthodox sources suggest that if homosexuality is truly something hardwired in the brain, as most gay activists suggest, then a man who acts upon that desire is not morally responsible for his actions, but I am not sure how wide-spread that opinion is. In any case, it is not quite as liberal a position as some would have you believe: essentially, it is equivalent to saying that a kleptomaniac would not be held morally responsible for stealing.
Interestingly, female homosexual relations are not forbidden by the Torah. There is very little discussion of female homosexuality in the Talmud. The few sources that mention lesbian relations say that they do not disqualify a woman from certain privileges of the priesthood, because it is "merely licentiousness." There is a surprising lack of discussion of such issues as whether lesbianism would be grounds for divorcing a woman without her consent or without ketubah. Rambam asserted that lesbian practices are forbidden because it was a "practice of Egypt" and because it constituted rebelliousness.
http://www.ou.org/other/5764/samem64.htm
http://www.shemayisrael.com/isjudaism/laws.shtml
-
בס"ד
This is shocking that a mom would say this to her child. It is not ok to be a homo. Leviticus 18:22 says: Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 20:13- If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman both of them have done what is destestable. They must be put to death: their blood will be on their own heads.
Romans 1:24- Therefore G-d gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of G-d for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this G-d gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves due penalty for their perversion.
Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Sodom and Gomorah.
You can't get any clearer than this.
We just discussed this in a bible class, because many people were told to not be judgemental about gays. The scriptures do not Lie! Homosexuality is an abomination in G-d's eyes.
Debbie, you realize that Romans is not considered Scripture according to the Jewish Tanach.
The only thing which Torah prohibits is man on man sex... As long as a man doesnt physically sleep with another man it doesnt matter what they are attracted to... The act is the thing which the Torah clearly prohibits. I realize that Christianity goes farther and condemns anyone with attraction to the same sex as a sinner.... This is clearly not a Jewish belief.
I can bring you many proofs of this point. But I am not defending gay behaviour. It is just as much a sin to violate the Shabbat as it is to be gay... They both deserve the death penalty. Which is worse? Neither is worse, they are equally abominable to Hashem, though Torah only talks about man-on-man sex twice which the violation of Shabbat is mentioned many more times.
http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm
Homosexuality
Sexual relations between men are clearly forbidden by the Torah. (Lev. 18:22). Such acts are condemned in the strongest possible terms, as abhorrent. The only other sexual sin that is described in such strong terms is the sin of remarrying a woman you had divorced after she had been married to another man. (See Deut. 24:4). The sin of sexual relations between men is punishable by death (Lev. 20:13), as are the sins of adultery and incest.
It is important to note, however, that it is homosexual acts that are forbidden, not homosexual orientation. Judaism focuses on a person's actions rather than a person's desires. A man's desire to have sex with another man is not a sin, so long as he does not act upon that desire. In fact, it could be said that a man who feels such desires but does not act upon them is worthy of more merit in that regard than a man who does not feel such desires at all, just as one who refrains from pork because it is forbidden deserves more merit than one who refrains from pork because he doesn't like the taste.
I have seen some modern Orthodox sources suggest that if homosexuality is truly something hardwired in the brain, as most gay activists suggest, then a man who acts upon that desire is not morally responsible for his actions, but I am not sure how wide-spread that opinion is. In any case, it is not quite as liberal a position as some would have you believe: essentially, it is equivalent to saying that a kleptomaniac would not be held morally responsible for stealing.
Interestingly, female homosexual relations are not forbidden by the Torah. There is very little discussion of female homosexuality in the Talmud. The few sources that mention lesbian relations say that they do not disqualify a woman from certain privileges of the priesthood, because it is "merely licentiousness." There is a surprising lack of discussion of such issues as whether lesbianism would be grounds for divorcing a woman without her consent or without ketubah. Rambam asserted that lesbian practices are forbidden because it was a "practice of Egypt" and because it constituted rebelliousness.
I've just refuted these claims you posted in the Hebrew forum.
By choosing to be gay, even if you don't have man-on-man sex, you make enough sins anyway.
Btw, as much as I know the Rambam forbids Lesbism.
-
בס"ד
This is shocking that a mom would say this to her child. It is not ok to be a homo. Leviticus 18:22 says: Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 20:13- If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman both of them have done what is destestable. They must be put to death: their blood will be on their own heads.
Romans 1:24- Therefore G-d gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of G-d for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this G-d gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves due penalty for their perversion.
Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Sodom and Gomorah.
You can't get any clearer than this.
We just discussed this in a bible class, because many people were told to not be judgemental about gays. The scriptures do not Lie! Homosexuality is an abomination in G-d's eyes.
Debbie, you realize that Romans is not considered Scripture according to the Jewish Tanach.
The only thing which Torah prohibits is man on man sex... As long as a man doesnt physically sleep with another man it doesnt matter what they are attracted to... The act is the thing which the Torah clearly prohibits. I realize that Christianity goes farther and condemns anyone with attraction to the same sex as a sinner.... This is clearly not a Jewish belief.
I can bring you many proofs of this point. But I am not defending gay behaviour. It is just as much a sin to violate the Shabbat as it is to be gay... They both deserve the death penalty. Which is worse? Neither is worse, they are equally abominable to Hashem, though Torah only talks about man-on-man sex twice which the violation of Shabbat is mentioned many more times.
http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm
Homosexuality
Sexual relations between men are clearly forbidden by the Torah. (Lev. 18:22). Such acts are condemned in the strongest possible terms, as abhorrent. The only other sexual sin that is described in such strong terms is the sin of remarrying a woman you had divorced after she had been married to another man. (See Deut. 24:4). The sin of sexual relations between men is punishable by death (Lev. 20:13), as are the sins of adultery and incest.
It is important to note, however, that it is homosexual acts that are forbidden, not homosexual orientation. Judaism focuses on a person's actions rather than a person's desires. A man's desire to have sex with another man is not a sin, so long as he does not act upon that desire. In fact, it could be said that a man who feels such desires but does not act upon them is worthy of more merit in that regard than a man who does not feel such desires at all, just as one who refrains from pork because it is forbidden deserves more merit than one who refrains from pork because he doesn't like the taste.
I have seen some modern Orthodox sources suggest that if homosexuality is truly something hardwired in the brain, as most gay activists suggest, then a man who acts upon that desire is not morally responsible for his actions, but I am not sure how wide-spread that opinion is. In any case, it is not quite as liberal a position as some would have you believe: essentially, it is equivalent to saying that a kleptomaniac would not be held morally responsible for stealing.
Interestingly, female homosexual relations are not forbidden by the Torah. There is very little discussion of female homosexuality in the Talmud. The few sources that mention lesbian relations say that they do not disqualify a woman from certain privileges of the priesthood, because it is "merely licentiousness." There is a surprising lack of discussion of such issues as whether lesbianism would be grounds for divorcing a woman without her consent or without ketubah. Rambam asserted that lesbian practices are forbidden because it was a "practice of Egypt" and because it constituted rebelliousness.
I've just refuted these claims you posted in the Hebrew forum.
By choosing to be gay, even if you don't have man-on-man sex, you make enough sins anyway.
Btw, as much as I know the Rambam forbids Lesbism.
Why don't you refute them on the english forum?
What mitzvah is violated by a man having attraction to another man? Why didn't the Torah or the sages expressly forbid such things? Can you bring me some sources?
Did you not see that what I quoted mentioned Rambams saying that lesbianism violates the mitzvah of not emulting the ways of the Mitzrayim?
Also would it also not be a sin for a Jew to secretly desire to eat a ham sandwich? I used to love Bacon and have abstained from it for over seven years. I also loved cheeseburgers and I have not eaten them in seven years... I guess my sins are never erased in your book..
Also why did you not want me to discuss Lamberts iniquity? Not to speak Lashon Hara?
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The reason for my tolerance of the homosexual is because those who are gay today are influenced by the media and the culture which they are born into. I believe that many of them are unhappy in that lifestyle and hope for strength to overcome their unbounded lust which is given an outlet by the homosexual agenda. Although I say I am tolerant, I do not accept their lifestyle one bit.
I do not want them to spread their filth, and I have voted against gay marriage every time it is brought to election. I have been called a homophobe and other names because I do not condone the lifestyle....
But halachicly I look at their problem as a test which they are failing... With strength from Hashem they may be able to overcome the lust and desire which lead them to destruction.
-
בס"ד
בס"ד
This is shocking that a mom would say this to her child. It is not ok to be a homo. Leviticus 18:22 says: Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 20:13- If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman both of them have done what is destestable. They must be put to death: their blood will be on their own heads.
Romans 1:24- Therefore G-d gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of G-d for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this G-d gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves due penalty for their perversion.
Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Sodom and Gomorah.
You can't get any clearer than this.
We just discussed this in a bible class, because many people were told to not be judgemental about gays. The scriptures do not Lie! Homosexuality is an abomination in G-d's eyes.
Debbie, you realize that Romans is not considered Scripture according to the Jewish Tanach.
The only thing which Torah prohibits is man on man sex... As long as a man doesnt physically sleep with another man it doesnt matter what they are attracted to... The act is the thing which the Torah clearly prohibits. I realize that Christianity goes farther and condemns anyone with attraction to the same sex as a sinner.... This is clearly not a Jewish belief.
I can bring you many proofs of this point. But I am not defending gay behaviour. It is just as much a sin to violate the Shabbat as it is to be gay... They both deserve the death penalty. Which is worse? Neither is worse, they are equally abominable to Hashem, though Torah only talks about man-on-man sex twice which the violation of Shabbat is mentioned many more times.
http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm
Homosexuality
Sexual relations between men are clearly forbidden by the Torah. (Lev. 18:22). Such acts are condemned in the strongest possible terms, as abhorrent. The only other sexual sin that is described in such strong terms is the sin of remarrying a woman you had divorced after she had been married to another man. (See Deut. 24:4). The sin of sexual relations between men is punishable by death (Lev. 20:13), as are the sins of adultery and incest.
It is important to note, however, that it is homosexual acts that are forbidden, not homosexual orientation. Judaism focuses on a person's actions rather than a person's desires. A man's desire to have sex with another man is not a sin, so long as he does not act upon that desire. In fact, it could be said that a man who feels such desires but does not act upon them is worthy of more merit in that regard than a man who does not feel such desires at all, just as one who refrains from pork because it is forbidden deserves more merit than one who refrains from pork because he doesn't like the taste.
I have seen some modern Orthodox sources suggest that if homosexuality is truly something hardwired in the brain, as most gay activists suggest, then a man who acts upon that desire is not morally responsible for his actions, but I am not sure how wide-spread that opinion is. In any case, it is not quite as liberal a position as some would have you believe: essentially, it is equivalent to saying that a kleptomaniac would not be held morally responsible for stealing.
Interestingly, female homosexual relations are not forbidden by the Torah. There is very little discussion of female homosexuality in the Talmud. The few sources that mention lesbian relations say that they do not disqualify a woman from certain privileges of the priesthood, because it is "merely licentiousness." There is a surprising lack of discussion of such issues as whether lesbianism would be grounds for divorcing a woman without her consent or without ketubah. Rambam asserted that lesbian practices are forbidden because it was a "practice of Egypt" and because it constituted rebelliousness.
I've just refuted these claims you posted in the Hebrew forum.
By choosing to be gay, even if you don't have man-on-man sex, you make enough sins anyway.
Btw, as much as I know the Rambam forbids Lesbism.
Why don't you refute them on the english forum?
What mitzvah is violated by a man having attraction to another man? Why didn't the Torah or the sages expressly forbid such things? Can you bring me some sources?
Did you not see that what I quoted mentioned Rambams saying that lesbianism violates the mitzvah of not emulting the ways of the Mitzrayim?
Also would it also not be a sin for a Jew to secretly desire to eat a ham sandwich? I used to love Bacon and have abstained from it for over seven years. I also loved cheeseburgers and I have not eaten them in seven years... I guess my sins are never erased in your book..
Also why did you not want me to discuss Lamberts iniquity? Not to speak Lashon Hara?
I'll translate:
א.) רוב הסיכויים שלא תתחתן ואם תתחתן - לא תהנה לא אתה ולא אשתך מהמצוות וההלכות הנוגעות לנישואין בדגש על אלו הנוגעים למין (כמו חלק מהלכות עונג שבת ומצוות עונה).
ב.) אם תתחתן, מה עם פרו ורבו?
ג.) וכו'.
1.) Most chances homosexual man wouldn't get married, and it he does get married, he and his wife alike wouldn't enjoy the Mitzvoht and Halachot regarding to marriage (like Oneg Shabbat, Mitzvaht Ona, etc).
2.) If he does get married, what about the Pru U'Rbu Mitzvah?
3.) Etc.
Only examples.
About the Ramambar quote, I didn't see it, sorry.
That's a good point and it actually strengthens mine, desiring to sin knowing that it's BAD is a sin, just like desiring to murder and you got the chance to not want to do that, and you keep willing to do so, that's a sin.
Lambert is a Tinok She'Nishbah, I don't think he knows a clue about Torah and rebuking him here would do nothing but speaking Leshon He'Rah, he doesn't even know who we are.
-
בס"ד
The reason for my tolerance of the homosexual is because those who are gay today are influenced by the media and the culture which they are born into. I believe that many of them are unhappy in that lifestyle and hope for strength to overcome their unbounded lust which is given an outlet by the homosexual agenda. Although I say I am tolerant, I do not accept their lifestyle one bit.
I do not want them to spread their filth, and I have voted against gay marriage every time it is brought to election. I have been called a homophobe and other names because I do not condone the lifestyle....
But halachicly I look at their problem as a test which they are failing... With strength from Hashem they may be able to overcome the lust and desire which lead them to destruction.
They are Tinokoht She'Nishbu, "ולא תשנא את אחיך בלבבך, הוכח תוכח את רעיך ולא תישא עליו חטא".
-
<snip>
I'll translate:
א.) רוב הסיכויים שלא תתחתן ואם תתחתן - לא תהנה לא אתה ולא אשתך מהמצוות וההלכות הנוגעות לנישואין בדגש על אלו הנוגעים למין (כמו חלק מהלכות עונג שבת ומצוות עונה).
ב.) אם תתחתן, מה עם פרו ורבו?
ג.) וכו'.
1.) Most chances homosexual man wouldn't get married, and it he does get married, he and his wife alike wouldn't enjoy the Mitzvoht and Halachot regarding to marriage (like Oneg Shabbat, Mitzvaht Ona, etc).
2.) If he does get married, what about the Pru U'Rbu Mitzvah?
3.) Etc.
Only examples.
About the Ramambar quote, I didn't see it, sorry.
That's a good point and it actually strengthens mine, desiring to sin knowing that it's BAD is a sin, just like desiring to murder and you got the chance to not want to do that, and you keep willing to do so, that's a sin.
Lambert is a Tinok She'Nishbah, I don't think he knows a clue about Torah and rebuking him here would do nothing but speaking Leshon He'Rah, he doesn't even know who we are.
Shalom Ron,
What you say about homosexual relationships also happen in heterosexual relationships. Here in the states there is a high rate of divorce even in the Jewish community. Many times there are problems such as when to have children, how often to have marital relations, levels of observance, etc...
But I do understand what you are saying. Marriage between man and woman is not easy and it is a challenge for all..
-
בס"ד
בס"ד
This is shocking that a mom would say this to her child. It is not ok to be a homo. Leviticus 18:22 says: Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 20:13- If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman both of them have done what is destestable. They must be put to death: their blood will be on their own heads.
Romans 1:24- Therefore G-d gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of G-d for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this G-d gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves due penalty for their perversion.
Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Sodom and Gomorah.
You can't get any clearer than this.
We just discussed this in a bible class, because many people were told to not be judgemental about gays. The scriptures do not Lie! Homosexuality is an abomination in G-d's eyes.
Debbie, you realize that Romans is not considered Scripture according to the Jewish Tanach.
The only thing which Torah prohibits is man on man sex... As long as a man doesnt physically sleep with another man it doesnt matter what they are attracted to... The act is the thing which the Torah clearly prohibits. I realize that Christianity goes farther and condemns anyone with attraction to the same sex as a sinner.... This is clearly not a Jewish belief.
I can bring you many proofs of this point. But I am not defending gay behaviour. It is just as much a sin to violate the Shabbat as it is to be gay... They both deserve the death penalty. Which is worse? Neither is worse, they are equally abominable to Hashem, though Torah only talks about man-on-man sex twice which the violation of Shabbat is mentioned many more times.
http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm
Homosexuality
Sexual relations between men are clearly forbidden by the Torah. (Lev. 18:22). Such acts are condemned in the strongest possible terms, as abhorrent. The only other sexual sin that is described in such strong terms is the sin of remarrying a woman you had divorced after she had been married to another man. (See Deut. 24:4). The sin of sexual relations between men is punishable by death (Lev. 20:13), as are the sins of adultery and incest.
It is important to note, however, that it is homosexual acts that are forbidden, not homosexual orientation. Judaism focuses on a person's actions rather than a person's desires. A man's desire to have sex with another man is not a sin, so long as he does not act upon that desire. In fact, it could be said that a man who feels such desires but does not act upon them is worthy of more merit in that regard than a man who does not feel such desires at all, just as one who refrains from pork because it is forbidden deserves more merit than one who refrains from pork because he doesn't like the taste.
I have seen some modern Orthodox sources suggest that if homosexuality is truly something hardwired in the brain, as most gay activists suggest, then a man who acts upon that desire is not morally responsible for his actions, but I am not sure how wide-spread that opinion is. In any case, it is not quite as liberal a position as some would have you believe: essentially, it is equivalent to saying that a kleptomaniac would not be held morally responsible for stealing.
Interestingly, female homosexual relations are not forbidden by the Torah. There is very little discussion of female homosexuality in the Talmud. The few sources that mention lesbian relations say that they do not disqualify a woman from certain privileges of the priesthood, because it is "merely licentiousness." There is a surprising lack of discussion of such issues as whether lesbianism would be grounds for divorcing a woman without her consent or without ketubah. Rambam asserted that lesbian practices are forbidden because it was a "practice of Egypt" and because it constituted rebelliousness.
I've just refuted these claims you posted in the Hebrew forum.
By choosing to be gay, even if you don't have man-on-man sex, you make enough sins anyway.
Btw, as much as I know the Rambam forbids Lesbism.
Why don't you refute them on the english forum?
What mitzvah is violated by a man having attraction to another man? Why didn't the Torah or the sages expressly forbid such things? Can you bring me some sources?
Did you not see that what I quoted mentioned Rambams saying that lesbianism violates the mitzvah of not emulting the ways of the Mitzrayim?
Also would it also not be a sin for a Jew to secretly desire to eat a ham sandwich? I used to love Bacon and have abstained from it for over seven years. I also loved cheeseburgers and I have not eaten them in seven years... I guess my sins are never erased in your book..
Also why did you not want me to discuss Lamberts iniquity? Not to speak Lashon Hara?
I'll translate:
א.) רוב הסיכויים שלא תתחתן ואם תתחתן - לא תהנה לא אתה ולא אשתך מהמצוות וההלכות הנוגעות לנישואין בדגש על אלו הנוגעים למין (כמו חלק מהלכות עונג שבת ומצוות עונה).
ב.) אם תתחתן, מה עם פרו ורבו?
ג.) וכו'.
1.) Most chances homosexual man wouldn't get married, and it he does get married, he and his wife alike wouldn't enjoy the Mitzvoht and Halachot regarding to marriage (like Oneg Shabbat, Mitzvaht Ona, etc).
2.) If he does get married, what about the Pru U'Rbu Mitzvah?
3.) Etc.
Only examples.
About the Ramambar quote, I didn't see it, sorry.
That's a good point and it actually strengthens mine, desiring to sin knowing that it's BAD is a sin, just like desiring to murder and you got the chance to not want to do that, and you keep willing to do so, that's a sin.
Lambert is a Tinok She'Nishbah, I don't think he knows a clue about Torah and rebuking him here would do nothing but speaking Leshon He'Rah, he doesn't even know who we are.
Nope, it's a bigger mitzvah to fight off the yetzer hara than it is to not have it in the first place.
-
בס"ד
<snip>
I'll translate:
א.) רוב הסיכויים שלא תתחתן ואם תתחתן - לא תהנה לא אתה ולא אשתך מהמצוות וההלכות הנוגעות לנישואין בדגש על אלו הנוגעים למין (כמו חלק מהלכות עונג שבת ומצוות עונה).
ב.) אם תתחתן, מה עם פרו ורבו?
ג.) וכו'.
1.) Most chances homosexual man wouldn't get married, and it he does get married, he and his wife alike wouldn't enjoy the Mitzvoht and Halachot regarding to marriage (like Oneg Shabbat, Mitzvaht Ona, etc).
2.) If he does get married, what about the Pru U'Rbu Mitzvah?
3.) Etc.
Only examples.
About the Ramambar quote, I didn't see it, sorry.
That's a good point and it actually strengthens mine, desiring to sin knowing that it's BAD is a sin, just like desiring to murder and you got the chance to not want to do that, and you keep willing to do so, that's a sin.
Lambert is a Tinok She'Nishbah, I don't think he knows a clue about Torah and rebuking him here would do nothing but speaking Leshon He'Rah, he doesn't even know who we are.
Shalom Ron,
What you say about homosexual relationships also happen in heterosexual relationships. Here in the states there is a high rate of divorce even in the Jewish community. Many times there are problems such as when to have children, how often to have marital relations, levels of observance, etc...
But I do understand what you are saying. Marriage between man and woman is not easy and it is a challenge for all..
But it doesn't neccesarily happen in heteroseuxal relationships. There are not many heterosexuals who don't enjoy having sex with their partners (Mitzvaht Onah and Pru U'Ru), for example. But if one chooses to be gay he wouldn't be enjoying sex, which leads to many Halachic problems.
-
בס"ד
בס"ד
בס"ד
This is shocking that a mom would say this to her child. It is not ok to be a homo. Leviticus 18:22 says: Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 20:13- If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman both of them have done what is destestable. They must be put to death: their blood will be on their own heads.
Romans 1:24- Therefore G-d gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of G-d for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this G-d gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves due penalty for their perversion.
Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Sodom and Gomorah.
You can't get any clearer than this.
We just discussed this in a bible class, because many people were told to not be judgemental about gays. The scriptures do not Lie! Homosexuality is an abomination in G-d's eyes.
Debbie, you realize that Romans is not considered Scripture according to the Jewish Tanach.
The only thing which Torah prohibits is man on man sex... As long as a man doesnt physically sleep with another man it doesnt matter what they are attracted to... The act is the thing which the Torah clearly prohibits. I realize that Christianity goes farther and condemns anyone with attraction to the same sex as a sinner.... This is clearly not a Jewish belief.
I can bring you many proofs of this point. But I am not defending gay behaviour. It is just as much a sin to violate the Shabbat as it is to be gay... They both deserve the death penalty. Which is worse? Neither is worse, they are equally abominable to Hashem, though Torah only talks about man-on-man sex twice which the violation of Shabbat is mentioned many more times.
http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm
Homosexuality
Sexual relations between men are clearly forbidden by the Torah. (Lev. 18:22). Such acts are condemned in the strongest possible terms, as abhorrent. The only other sexual sin that is described in such strong terms is the sin of remarrying a woman you had divorced after she had been married to another man. (See Deut. 24:4). The sin of sexual relations between men is punishable by death (Lev. 20:13), as are the sins of adultery and incest.
It is important to note, however, that it is homosexual acts that are forbidden, not homosexual orientation. Judaism focuses on a person's actions rather than a person's desires. A man's desire to have sex with another man is not a sin, so long as he does not act upon that desire. In fact, it could be said that a man who feels such desires but does not act upon them is worthy of more merit in that regard than a man who does not feel such desires at all, just as one who refrains from pork because it is forbidden deserves more merit than one who refrains from pork because he doesn't like the taste.
I have seen some modern Orthodox sources suggest that if homosexuality is truly something hardwired in the brain, as most gay activists suggest, then a man who acts upon that desire is not morally responsible for his actions, but I am not sure how wide-spread that opinion is. In any case, it is not quite as liberal a position as some would have you believe: essentially, it is equivalent to saying that a kleptomaniac would not be held morally responsible for stealing.
Interestingly, female homosexual relations are not forbidden by the Torah. There is very little discussion of female homosexuality in the Talmud. The few sources that mention lesbian relations say that they do not disqualify a woman from certain privileges of the priesthood, because it is "merely licentiousness." There is a surprising lack of discussion of such issues as whether lesbianism would be grounds for divorcing a woman without her consent or without ketubah. Rambam asserted that lesbian practices are forbidden because it was a "practice of Egypt" and because it constituted rebelliousness.
I've just refuted these claims you posted in the Hebrew forum.
By choosing to be gay, even if you don't have man-on-man sex, you make enough sins anyway.
Btw, as much as I know the Rambam forbids Lesbism.
Why don't you refute them on the english forum?
What mitzvah is violated by a man having attraction to another man? Why didn't the Torah or the sages expressly forbid such things? Can you bring me some sources?
Did you not see that what I quoted mentioned Rambams saying that lesbianism violates the mitzvah of not emulting the ways of the Mitzrayim?
Also would it also not be a sin for a Jew to secretly desire to eat a ham sandwich? I used to love Bacon and have abstained from it for over seven years. I also loved cheeseburgers and I have not eaten them in seven years... I guess my sins are never erased in your book..
Also why did you not want me to discuss Lamberts iniquity? Not to speak Lashon Hara?
I'll translate:
א.) רוב הסיכויים שלא תתחתן ואם תתחתן - לא תהנה לא אתה ולא אשתך מהמצוות וההלכות הנוגעות לנישואין בדגש על אלו הנוגעים למין (כמו חלק מהלכות עונג שבת ומצוות עונה).
ב.) אם תתחתן, מה עם פרו ורבו?
ג.) וכו'.
1.) Most chances homosexual man wouldn't get married, and it he does get married, he and his wife alike wouldn't enjoy the Mitzvoht and Halachot regarding to marriage (like Oneg Shabbat, Mitzvaht Ona, etc).
2.) If he does get married, what about the Pru U'Rbu Mitzvah?
3.) Etc.
Only examples.
About the Ramambar quote, I didn't see it, sorry.
That's a good point and it actually strengthens mine, desiring to sin knowing that it's BAD is a sin, just like desiring to murder and you got the chance to not want to do that, and you keep willing to do so, that's a sin.
Lambert is a Tinok She'Nishbah, I don't think he knows a clue about Torah and rebuking him here would do nothing but speaking Leshon He'Rah, he doesn't even know who we are.
Nope, it's a bigger mitzvah to fight off the yetzer hara than it is to not have it in the first place.
It's a worse sin to strengthen your Yetzer Ha'Rah in the first place than it is to not do anything about it.
-
בס"ד
בס"ד
בס"ד
This is shocking that a mom would say this to her child. It is not ok to be a homo. Leviticus 18:22 says: Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 20:13- If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman both of them have done what is destestable. They must be put to death: their blood will be on their own heads.
Romans 1:24- Therefore G-d gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of G-d for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this G-d gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves due penalty for their perversion.
Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Sodom and Gomorah.
You can't get any clearer than this.
We just discussed this in a bible class, because many people were told to not be judgemental about gays. The scriptures do not Lie! Homosexuality is an abomination in G-d's eyes.
Debbie, you realize that Romans is not considered Scripture according to the Jewish Tanach.
The only thing which Torah prohibits is man on man sex... As long as a man doesnt physically sleep with another man it doesnt matter what they are attracted to... The act is the thing which the Torah clearly prohibits. I realize that Christianity goes farther and condemns anyone with attraction to the same sex as a sinner.... This is clearly not a Jewish belief.
I can bring you many proofs of this point. But I am not defending gay behaviour. It is just as much a sin to violate the Shabbat as it is to be gay... They both deserve the death penalty. Which is worse? Neither is worse, they are equally abominable to Hashem, though Torah only talks about man-on-man sex twice which the violation of Shabbat is mentioned many more times.
http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm
Homosexuality
Sexual relations between men are clearly forbidden by the Torah. (Lev. 18:22). Such acts are condemned in the strongest possible terms, as abhorrent. The only other sexual sin that is described in such strong terms is the sin of remarrying a woman you had divorced after she had been married to another man. (See Deut. 24:4). The sin of sexual relations between men is punishable by death (Lev. 20:13), as are the sins of adultery and incest.
It is important to note, however, that it is homosexual acts that are forbidden, not homosexual orientation. Judaism focuses on a person's actions rather than a person's desires. A man's desire to have sex with another man is not a sin, so long as he does not act upon that desire. In fact, it could be said that a man who feels such desires but does not act upon them is worthy of more merit in that regard than a man who does not feel such desires at all, just as one who refrains from pork because it is forbidden deserves more merit than one who refrains from pork because he doesn't like the taste.
I have seen some modern Orthodox sources suggest that if homosexuality is truly something hardwired in the brain, as most gay activists suggest, then a man who acts upon that desire is not morally responsible for his actions, but I am not sure how wide-spread that opinion is. In any case, it is not quite as liberal a position as some would have you believe: essentially, it is equivalent to saying that a kleptomaniac would not be held morally responsible for stealing.
Interestingly, female homosexual relations are not forbidden by the Torah. There is very little discussion of female homosexuality in the Talmud. The few sources that mention lesbian relations say that they do not disqualify a woman from certain privileges of the priesthood, because it is "merely licentiousness." There is a surprising lack of discussion of such issues as whether lesbianism would be grounds for divorcing a woman without her consent or without ketubah. Rambam asserted that lesbian practices are forbidden because it was a "practice of Egypt" and because it constituted rebelliousness.
I've just refuted these claims you posted in the Hebrew forum.
By choosing to be gay, even if you don't have man-on-man sex, you make enough sins anyway.
Btw, as much as I know the Rambam forbids Lesbism.
Why don't you refute them on the english forum?
What mitzvah is violated by a man having attraction to another man? Why didn't the Torah or the sages expressly forbid such things? Can you bring me some sources?
Did you not see that what I quoted mentioned Rambams saying that lesbianism violates the mitzvah of not emulting the ways of the Mitzrayim?
Also would it also not be a sin for a Jew to secretly desire to eat a ham sandwich? I used to love Bacon and have abstained from it for over seven years. I also loved cheeseburgers and I have not eaten them in seven years... I guess my sins are never erased in your book..
Also why did you not want me to discuss Lamberts iniquity? Not to speak Lashon Hara?
I'll translate:
א.) רוב הסיכויים שלא תתחתן ואם תתחתן - לא תהנה לא אתה ולא אשתך מהמצוות וההלכות הנוגעות לנישואין בדגש על אלו הנוגעים למין (כמו חלק מהלכות עונג שבת ומצוות עונה).
ב.) אם תתחתן, מה עם פרו ורבו?
ג.) וכו'.
1.) Most chances homosexual man wouldn't get married, and it he does get married, he and his wife alike wouldn't enjoy the Mitzvoht and Halachot regarding to marriage (like Oneg Shabbat, Mitzvaht Ona, etc).
2.) If he does get married, what about the Pru U'Rbu Mitzvah?
3.) Etc.
Only examples.
About the Ramambar quote, I didn't see it, sorry.
That's a good point and it actually strengthens mine, desiring to sin knowing that it's BAD is a sin, just like desiring to murder and you got the chance to not want to do that, and you keep willing to do so, that's a sin.
Lambert is a Tinok She'Nishbah, I don't think he knows a clue about Torah and rebuking him here would do nothing but speaking Leshon He'Rah, he doesn't even know who we are.
Nope, it's a bigger mitzvah to fight off the yetzer hara than it is to not have it in the first place.
It's a worse sin to strengthen your Yetzer Ha'Rah in the first place than it is to not do anything about it.
The only way to strengthen it is by feeding it. If you do not feed and only try to fight it, is a tremendous mitzva.
-
בס"ד
בס"ד
בס"ד
בס"ד
This is shocking that a mom would say this to her child. It is not ok to be a homo. Leviticus 18:22 says: Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 20:13- If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman both of them have done what is destestable. They must be put to death: their blood will be on their own heads.
Romans 1:24- Therefore G-d gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of G-d for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this G-d gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves due penalty for their perversion.
Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Sodom and Gomorah.
You can't get any clearer than this.
We just discussed this in a bible class, because many people were told to not be judgemental about gays. The scriptures do not Lie! Homosexuality is an abomination in G-d's eyes.
Debbie, you realize that Romans is not considered Scripture according to the Jewish Tanach.
The only thing which Torah prohibits is man on man sex... As long as a man doesnt physically sleep with another man it doesnt matter what they are attracted to... The act is the thing which the Torah clearly prohibits. I realize that Christianity goes farther and condemns anyone with attraction to the same sex as a sinner.... This is clearly not a Jewish belief.
I can bring you many proofs of this point. But I am not defending gay behaviour. It is just as much a sin to violate the Shabbat as it is to be gay... They both deserve the death penalty. Which is worse? Neither is worse, they are equally abominable to Hashem, though Torah only talks about man-on-man sex twice which the violation of Shabbat is mentioned many more times.
http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm
Homosexuality
Sexual relations between men are clearly forbidden by the Torah. (Lev. 18:22). Such acts are condemned in the strongest possible terms, as abhorrent. The only other sexual sin that is described in such strong terms is the sin of remarrying a woman you had divorced after she had been married to another man. (See Deut. 24:4). The sin of sexual relations between men is punishable by death (Lev. 20:13), as are the sins of adultery and incest.
It is important to note, however, that it is homosexual acts that are forbidden, not homosexual orientation. Judaism focuses on a person's actions rather than a person's desires. A man's desire to have sex with another man is not a sin, so long as he does not act upon that desire. In fact, it could be said that a man who feels such desires but does not act upon them is worthy of more merit in that regard than a man who does not feel such desires at all, just as one who refrains from pork because it is forbidden deserves more merit than one who refrains from pork because he doesn't like the taste.
I have seen some modern Orthodox sources suggest that if homosexuality is truly something hardwired in the brain, as most gay activists suggest, then a man who acts upon that desire is not morally responsible for his actions, but I am not sure how wide-spread that opinion is. In any case, it is not quite as liberal a position as some would have you believe: essentially, it is equivalent to saying that a kleptomaniac would not be held morally responsible for stealing.
Interestingly, female homosexual relations are not forbidden by the Torah. There is very little discussion of female homosexuality in the Talmud. The few sources that mention lesbian relations say that they do not disqualify a woman from certain privileges of the priesthood, because it is "merely licentiousness." There is a surprising lack of discussion of such issues as whether lesbianism would be grounds for divorcing a woman without her consent or without ketubah. Rambam asserted that lesbian practices are forbidden because it was a "practice of Egypt" and because it constituted rebelliousness.
I've just refuted these claims you posted in the Hebrew forum.
By choosing to be gay, even if you don't have man-on-man sex, you make enough sins anyway.
Btw, as much as I know the Rambam forbids Lesbism.
Why don't you refute them on the english forum?
What mitzvah is violated by a man having attraction to another man? Why didn't the Torah or the sages expressly forbid such things? Can you bring me some sources?
Did you not see that what I quoted mentioned Rambams saying that lesbianism violates the mitzvah of not emulting the ways of the Mitzrayim?
Also would it also not be a sin for a Jew to secretly desire to eat a ham sandwich? I used to love Bacon and have abstained from it for over seven years. I also loved cheeseburgers and I have not eaten them in seven years... I guess my sins are never erased in your book..
Also why did you not want me to discuss Lamberts iniquity? Not to speak Lashon Hara?
I'll translate:
א.) רוב הסיכויים שלא תתחתן ואם תתחתן - לא תהנה לא אתה ולא אשתך מהמצוות וההלכות הנוגעות לנישואין בדגש על אלו הנוגעים למין (כמו חלק מהלכות עונג שבת ומצוות עונה).
ב.) אם תתחתן, מה עם פרו ורבו?
ג.) וכו'.
1.) Most chances homosexual man wouldn't get married, and it he does get married, he and his wife alike wouldn't enjoy the Mitzvoht and Halachot regarding to marriage (like Oneg Shabbat, Mitzvaht Ona, etc).
2.) If he does get married, what about the Pru U'Rbu Mitzvah?
3.) Etc.
Only examples.
About the Ramambar quote, I didn't see it, sorry.
That's a good point and it actually strengthens mine, desiring to sin knowing that it's BAD is a sin, just like desiring to murder and you got the chance to not want to do that, and you keep willing to do so, that's a sin.
Lambert is a Tinok She'Nishbah, I don't think he knows a clue about Torah and rebuking him here would do nothing but speaking Leshon He'Rah, he doesn't even know who we are.
Nope, it's a bigger mitzvah to fight off the yetzer hara than it is to not have it in the first place.
It's a worse sin to strengthen your Yetzer Ha'Rah in the first place than it is to not do anything about it.
The only way to strengthen it is by feeding it. If you do not feed and only try to fight it, is a tremendous mitzva.
Choosing to be gay and be attracted to man is strengthening the Yetzer Ha'Rah.
-
בס"ד
בס"ד
בס"ד
בס"ד
This is shocking that a mom would say this to her child. It is not ok to be a homo. Leviticus 18:22 says: Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 20:13- If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman both of them have done what is destestable. They must be put to death: their blood will be on their own heads.
Romans 1:24- Therefore G-d gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of G-d for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this G-d gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves due penalty for their perversion.
Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Sodom and Gomorah.
You can't get any clearer than this.
We just discussed this in a bible class, because many people were told to not be judgemental about gays. The scriptures do not Lie! Homosexuality is an abomination in G-d's eyes.
Debbie, you realize that Romans is not considered Scripture according to the Jewish Tanach.
The only thing which Torah prohibits is man on man sex... As long as a man doesnt physically sleep with another man it doesnt matter what they are attracted to... The act is the thing which the Torah clearly prohibits. I realize that Christianity goes farther and condemns anyone with attraction to the same sex as a sinner.... This is clearly not a Jewish belief.
I can bring you many proofs of this point. But I am not defending gay behaviour. It is just as much a sin to violate the Shabbat as it is to be gay... They both deserve the death penalty. Which is worse? Neither is worse, they are equally abominable to Hashem, though Torah only talks about man-on-man sex twice which the violation of Shabbat is mentioned many more times.
http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm
Homosexuality
Sexual relations between men are clearly forbidden by the Torah. (Lev. 18:22). Such acts are condemned in the strongest possible terms, as abhorrent. The only other sexual sin that is described in such strong terms is the sin of remarrying a woman you had divorced after she had been married to another man. (See Deut. 24:4). The sin of sexual relations between men is punishable by death (Lev. 20:13), as are the sins of adultery and incest.
It is important to note, however, that it is homosexual acts that are forbidden, not homosexual orientation. Judaism focuses on a person's actions rather than a person's desires. A man's desire to have sex with another man is not a sin, so long as he does not act upon that desire. In fact, it could be said that a man who feels such desires but does not act upon them is worthy of more merit in that regard than a man who does not feel such desires at all, just as one who refrains from pork because it is forbidden deserves more merit than one who refrains from pork because he doesn't like the taste.
I have seen some modern Orthodox sources suggest that if homosexuality is truly something hardwired in the brain, as most gay activists suggest, then a man who acts upon that desire is not morally responsible for his actions, but I am not sure how wide-spread that opinion is. In any case, it is not quite as liberal a position as some would have you believe: essentially, it is equivalent to saying that a kleptomaniac would not be held morally responsible for stealing.
Interestingly, female homosexual relations are not forbidden by the Torah. There is very little discussion of female homosexuality in the Talmud. The few sources that mention lesbian relations say that they do not disqualify a woman from certain privileges of the priesthood, because it is "merely licentiousness." There is a surprising lack of discussion of such issues as whether lesbianism would be grounds for divorcing a woman without her consent or without ketubah. Rambam asserted that lesbian practices are forbidden because it was a "practice of Egypt" and because it constituted rebelliousness.
I've just refuted these claims you posted in the Hebrew forum.
By choosing to be gay, even if you don't have man-on-man sex, you make enough sins anyway.
Btw, as much as I know the Rambam forbids Lesbism.
Why don't you refute them on the english forum?
What mitzvah is violated by a man having attraction to another man? Why didn't the Torah or the sages expressly forbid such things? Can you bring me some sources?
Did you not see that what I quoted mentioned Rambams saying that lesbianism violates the mitzvah of not emulting the ways of the Mitzrayim?
Also would it also not be a sin for a Jew to secretly desire to eat a ham sandwich? I used to love Bacon and have abstained from it for over seven years. I also loved cheeseburgers and I have not eaten them in seven years... I guess my sins are never erased in your book..
Also why did you not want me to discuss Lamberts iniquity? Not to speak Lashon Hara?
I'll translate:
א.) רוב הסיכויים שלא תתחתן ואם תתחתן - לא תהנה לא אתה ולא אשתך מהמצוות וההלכות הנוגעות לנישואין בדגש על אלו הנוגעים למין (כמו חלק מהלכות עונג שבת ומצוות עונה).
ב.) אם תתחתן, מה עם פרו ורבו?
ג.) וכו'.
1.) Most chances homosexual man wouldn't get married, and it he does get married, he and his wife alike wouldn't enjoy the Mitzvoht and Halachot regarding to marriage (like Oneg Shabbat, Mitzvaht Ona, etc).
2.) If he does get married, what about the Pru U'Rbu Mitzvah?
3.) Etc.
Only examples.
About the Ramambar quote, I didn't see it, sorry.
That's a good point and it actually strengthens mine, desiring to sin knowing that it's BAD is a sin, just like desiring to murder and you got the chance to not want to do that, and you keep willing to do so, that's a sin.
Lambert is a Tinok She'Nishbah, I don't think he knows a clue about Torah and rebuking him here would do nothing but speaking Leshon He'Rah, he doesn't even know who we are.
Nope, it's a bigger mitzvah to fight off the yetzer hara than it is to not have it in the first place.
It's a worse sin to strengthen your Yetzer Ha'Rah in the first place than it is to not do anything about it.
The only way to strengthen it is by feeding it. If you do not feed and only try to fight it, is a tremendous mitzva.
Choosing to be gay and be attracted to man is strengthening the Yetzer Ha'Rah.
The only sin would be not trying to have children/not marrying a woman. There's no sin for coveting another man, as long as you do nothing about it. It is a mitzvah to fight the yetzer hara. I crave cheeseburgers all the time, and fighting the yetzer hara is not a sin.
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The question is where you start your journey... Some people are born into unfortunate circumstances and can rise to high levels while others are born at a high level and fall to low levels...
What Mo is saying is that where the Bal Teshuva stands the Frum From Birth can never stand. The fact that we have risen from a low place and changed ourselves, turning toward Hashem, gives us Reward in Olam Haba... Someone who is born at a high level and doesnt reach for higher levels will be judged more harshly than one who was born with very little Wisdom and gains wisdom before he passes to Olam Haba.
It is difficult to do calculations on who has more merit, and it is wrong to assume that we can make Averahs with the knowledge we can make teshuva. Averahs are judged each time we commit them, and if we have been rebuked and we persist in making Averahs we are judged more harshly. This is how I understand this dynamic.
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בס"ד
The only sin would be not trying to have children/not marrying a woman. There's no sin for coveting another man, as long as you do nothing about it. It is a mitzvah to fight the yetzer hara. I crave cheeseburgers all the time, and fighting the yetzer hara is not a sin.
Not really, he'd be sinning in other ways too as I've listed above.
There's a sin in coveting other man just like there is sin in willing to murder.
It is a Mitzvah to fight the Yetzer Ha'Rah but most sane men wouldn't like men anyway and loving cheeseburgers is something that would be more likely to happen then coveting men (only an "anti" guy would do so).
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בס"ד
The question is where you start your journey... Some people are born into unfortunate circumstances and can rise to high levels while others are born at a high level and fall to low levels...
What Mo is saying is that where the Bal Teshuva stands the Frum From Birth can never stand. The fact that we have risen from a low place and changed ourselves, turning toward Hashem, gives us Reward in Olam Haba... Someone who is born at a high level and doesnt reach for higher levels will be judged more harshly than one who was born with very little Wisdom and gains wisdom before he passes to Olam Haba.
It is difficult to do calculations on who has more merit, and it is wrong to assume that we can make Averahs with the knowledge we can make teshuva. Averahs are judged each time we commit them, and if we have been rebuked and we persist in making Averahs we are judged more harshly. This is how I understand this dynamic.
Where did I disagree?
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forget it, there's no point in this. We're all straight and frum. Amen.
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בס"ד
forget it, there's no point in this. We're all straight and frum. Amen.
LMAO
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בס"ד
The question is where you start your journey... Some people are born into unfortunate circumstances and can rise to high levels while others are born at a high level and fall to low levels...
What Mo is saying is that where the Bal Teshuva stands the Frum From Birth can never stand. The fact that we have risen from a low place and changed ourselves, turning toward Hashem, gives us Reward in Olam Haba... Someone who is born at a high level and doesnt reach for higher levels will be judged more harshly than one who was born with very little Wisdom and gains wisdom before he passes to Olam Haba.
It is difficult to do calculations on who has more merit, and it is wrong to assume that we can make Averahs with the knowledge we can make teshuva. Averahs are judged each time we commit them, and if we have been rebuked and we persist in making Averahs we are judged more harshly. This is how I understand this dynamic.
Where did I disagree?
I did not mean that you disagree... I am just trying to explain the concept which I think Mo was talking about.... To overcome the desires which we are born with, sometimes they are not in line with the Torah... So we must give them up. So if the desire for forbidden sexual relationships, whether they are homosexual or amongst the other forbidden relationships like incest and rape, can be overcome and turned into something good, then the individuals soul gets merit. I dont know what goes on in the homosexual mind but I can only apply what I know about myself and what I learn from Torah. So I believe Hashem doesnt create them just to destroy them, he creates them in order for them to overcome their forbidden temptation.
That is all I am saying.
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בס"ד
בס"ד
The question is where you start your journey... Some people are born into unfortunate circumstances and can rise to high levels while others are born at a high level and fall to low levels...
What Mo is saying is that where the Bal Teshuva stands the Frum From Birth can never stand. The fact that we have risen from a low place and changed ourselves, turning toward Hashem, gives us Reward in Olam Haba... Someone who is born at a high level and doesnt reach for higher levels will be judged more harshly than one who was born with very little Wisdom and gains wisdom before he passes to Olam Haba.
It is difficult to do calculations on who has more merit, and it is wrong to assume that we can make Averahs with the knowledge we can make teshuva. Averahs are judged each time we commit them, and if we have been rebuked and we persist in making Averahs we are judged more harshly. This is how I understand this dynamic.
Where did I disagree?
I did not mean that you disagree... I am just trying to explain the concept which I think Mo was talking about.... To overcome the desires which we are born with, sometimes they are not in line with the Torah... So we must give them up. So if the desire for forbidden sexual relationships, whether they are homosexual or amongst the other forbidden relationships like incest and rape, can be overcome and turned into something good, then the individuals soul gets merit. I dont know what goes on in the homosexual mind but I can only apply what I know about myself and what I learn from Torah. So I believe Hashem doesnt create them just to destroy them, he creates them in order for them to overcome their forbidden temptation.
That is all I am saying.
I don't disagree but no man would desire men just cause of that like me and you desire women. He'd do it as a result of a social background or something like that. Gays are not born like that.
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בס"ד
בס"ד
The question is where you start your journey... Some people are born into unfortunate circumstances and can rise to high levels while others are born at a high level and fall to low levels...
What Mo is saying is that where the Bal Teshuva stands the Frum From Birth can never stand. The fact that we have risen from a low place and changed ourselves, turning toward Hashem, gives us Reward in Olam Haba... Someone who is born at a high level and doesnt reach for higher levels will be judged more harshly than one who was born with very little Wisdom and gains wisdom before he passes to Olam Haba.
It is difficult to do calculations on who has more merit, and it is wrong to assume that we can make Averahs with the knowledge we can make teshuva. Averahs are judged each time we commit them, and if we have been rebuked and we persist in making Averahs we are judged more harshly. This is how I understand this dynamic.
Where did I disagree?
I did not mean that you disagree... I am just trying to explain the concept which I think Mo was talking about.... To overcome the desires which we are born with, sometimes they are not in line with the Torah... So we must give them up. So if the desire for forbidden sexual relationships, whether they are homosexual or amongst the other forbidden relationships like incest and rape, can be overcome and turned into something good, then the individuals soul gets merit. I dont know what goes on in the homosexual mind but I can only apply what I know about myself and what I learn from Torah. So I believe Hashem doesnt create them just to destroy them, he creates them in order for them to overcome their forbidden temptation.
That is all I am saying.
I don't disagree but no man would desire men just cause of that like me and you desire women. He'd do it as a result of a social background or something like that. Gays are not born like that.
Of course not... I don't believe in the gay gene theory. So it is a matter of Lust, Desire, or Ta'avah...
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בס"ד
בס"ד
בס"ד
The question is where you start your journey... Some people are born into unfortunate circumstances and can rise to high levels while others are born at a high level and fall to low levels...
What Mo is saying is that where the Bal Teshuva stands the Frum From Birth can never stand. The fact that we have risen from a low place and changed ourselves, turning toward Hashem, gives us Reward in Olam Haba... Someone who is born at a high level and doesnt reach for higher levels will be judged more harshly than one who was born with very little Wisdom and gains wisdom before he passes to Olam Haba.
It is difficult to do calculations on who has more merit, and it is wrong to assume that we can make Averahs with the knowledge we can make teshuva. Averahs are judged each time we commit them, and if we have been rebuked and we persist in making Averahs we are judged more harshly. This is how I understand this dynamic.
Where did I disagree?
I did not mean that you disagree... I am just trying to explain the concept which I think Mo was talking about.... To overcome the desires which we are born with, sometimes they are not in line with the Torah... So we must give them up. So if the desire for forbidden sexual relationships, whether they are homosexual or amongst the other forbidden relationships like incest and rape, can be overcome and turned into something good, then the individuals soul gets merit. I dont know what goes on in the homosexual mind but I can only apply what I know about myself and what I learn from Torah. So I believe Hashem doesnt create them just to destroy them, he creates them in order for them to overcome their forbidden temptation.
That is all I am saying.
I don't disagree but no man would desire men just cause of that like me and you desire women. He'd do it as a result of a social background or something like that. Gays are not born like that.
Of course not... I don't believe in the gay gene theory. So it is a matter of Lust, Desire, or Ta'avah...
It has been refuted. It's just a silly game of the faggots and their Commie fans against the "intolerance against homosexuality".
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All I know is I remember what happened to Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah, and I want to live a clean life. I am not perfect by a long shot, but darn near... :::D
I am the most imperfect person that I know.
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All I know is I remember what happened to Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah, and I want to live a clean life. I am not perfect by a long shot, but darn near... :::D
I am the most imperfect person that I know.
You are not permitted to speak negatively about yourself.... You should turn your perspective around, you have an opportunity to perfect yourself.
Sdom was a wicked place and yet Abraham still was concerned about a few righteous individuals. It deserved its fate and we learn a lot from it.
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I'm not?
:'(
Wow, please tell me more, I need to stop doing that, I must need to hear this, Muman, please post it here.
God is really trying to deal with me about this.
thankyou.
All I know is I remember what happened to Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah, and I want to live a clean life. I am not perfect by a long shot, but darn near... :::D
I am the most imperfect person that I know.
You are not permitted to speak negatively about yourself.... You should turn your perspective around, you have an opportunity to perfect yourself.
Sdom was a wicked place and yet Abraham still was concerned about a few righteous individuals. It deserved its fate and we learn a lot from it.
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My thought comes from the laws of Lashon Hara, or evil speech...
For a Jew to bring up negative aspects of his own life in public is a form of Lashon Hara. Unless it is in private and you are confiding in someone, it is generally best not to say negative things about yourself.
http://www.torah.org/learning/halashon/chapter1.html
9. Disparaging Yourself Along with Others
Even if you're disparaging yourself alongside the subject, it is prohibited. It doesn't matter if you look even worse than the subject, and it doesn't matter if you mention yourself first. Rabbi Pliskin gives some nice examples:
Ben and I both shoplifted when we were younger.
Nobody in our group studies Torah properly.
It is also forbidden to speak Lashon Hara about yourself.
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All I know is I remember what happened to Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah, and I want to live a clean life. I am not perfect by a long shot, but darn near... :::D
I am the most imperfect person that I know.
You are not permitted to speak negatively about yourself.... You should turn your perspective around, you have an opportunity to perfect yourself.
Sdom was a wicked place and yet Abraham still was concerned about a few righteous individuals. It deserved its fate and we learn a lot from it.
That would be correct if she were Jewish,lol.
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I don't find anything wrong with what Pennyjangle wrote. You all agree that homosexuality is not automatic or genetic, right? So when she wrote that becoming homosexual/gay is a choice, she was kind of agreeing with you.
Ah, the voice of reason.