JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: EagleEye on December 16, 2009, 01:29:06 PM
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-Politically, Zionism is a great weapon against Islam. Let's face it, the Taliban is more obnoxious to secular sensibilities than any Christian or Jewish movement. The enemy of Sharia law is the friend.
-Political Correctness. JTF understands third world immigration, Black crime, etc.
-Jews don't have a trackrecord of violence against non-believers and gentiles in the same way that Muslims do. Even people with Jewish mothers who don't believe don't have to fear being suicide bombed by Jews.
-Jews are usually techno-progressive.
-There is a problem outside of JTF with Jews who have aligned themselves with the liberal left. By supporting JTF, you are making more political allies. You are helping to bring Jews back to the right.
-Right wing Nationalists are not "all Nazis." Many of us believe Hitler did things wrong.
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Can argue against any of that. Very good!!!!
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-Politically, Zionism is a great weapon against Islam. Let's face it, the Taliban is more obnoxious to secular sensibilities than any Christian or Jewish movement. The enemy of Sharia law is the friend.
-Political Correctness. JTF understands third world immigration, Black crime, etc.
-Jews don't have a trackrecord of violence against non-believers and gentiles in the same way that Muslims do. Even people with Jewish mothers who don't believe don't have to fear being suicide bombed by Jews.
-Jews are usually techno-progressive.
-There is a problem outside of JTF with Jews who have aligned themselves with the liberal left. By supporting JTF, you are making more political allies. You are helping to bring Jews back to the right.
-Right wing Nationalists are not "all Nazis." Many of us believe Hitler did things wrong.
i dont know if I agree about several points
1) The secular Israelis really do hate religous Jews and are working to remove them from the land. Zionism is a Jewish ideal which is not the same as Islamophobia or Islam hatred. To use it as such is antisemitic.
2) Mainstream americans don't care about those issues, illegal immigration, etc... Only the rightwingers are in our camp.
3) The mainstream non-observant Jew fears the religious because they know what happened during Chanukah..
5) I really question your understanding when you say something stupid like "Hitler did things wrong".... You think he did things right? Maybe he should have killed Jews but not gotten into politics? I dont understand such a statement. Nazis were wrong on all fronts.
PS: JTF Does support creation of a Torah state in Israel which the left compares to the Taliban, just last week the mainstream media in Israel got in a tizzy because a religous leader spoke of establishing Toranic law...
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1) The secular Israelis really do hate religous Jews and are working to remove them from the land.
This is not the majority of secular Israelis. Despite the scandals and gangster politics of haredi groups like Shas and UTJ and all the antagonism from haredi Jews, and all the media onslaught against religious Jews, I don't believe that most secular Israelis "hate" religious Jews. That is a very serious and grave claim to make. If anything most "secular" Israelis are traditional in some way and not completely off the path. Of those who are completely off, and of those who truly hate religious Jews, still even only some of these actively work to remove us from the land. The elites are not necessarily a representation of the masses, and it is the elites who in a very high percentage of cases actively work to remove us from the land of Israel. This includes most politicians.
3) The mainstream non-observant Jew fears the religious because they know what happened during Chanukah..
I really don't think most Jews, non-observant AND observant know what actually happened in hanukkah.
5) I really question your understanding when you say something stupid like "Hitler did things wrong".... You think he did things right? Maybe he should have killed Jews but not gotten into politics? I dont understand such a statement. Nazis were wrong on all fronts.
Completely agree. "Hitler did things wrong" is probably one of the biggest understatements I've heard in a while, and sounds rather silly... Not to mention suspicious. Even if you are sincere and have good intentions Eagle Eye, my response to you is unapologetically: What a dumb thing to say.
I have to say that "Secular" reasons for supporting JTF are pretty flimsy and nonsensical, but go ahead and support. Good deeds are of value from anyone, even the most confused of people. But one thing is certain, we cannot have the leadership of the movement be secular because then we would go the way of Likud, Herut etc G-d forbid, since "Secular nationalism" is completely at odds and antithetical to Jewish nationalism, and "secular nationalism" will always bend and twist and give in to compromise on any ideal for the sake of pragmatism and gentlemanly compromise. Whereas, we Jewish nationalists have a Torah to uphold.
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The threat of Bolshevism was real but Hitler's errors were to make Jews, Slavs and Gypsies his enemies. To invade Poland when Poland was anti-Communist. To invade Russia.
I'm not opposed to an authoritarian state, but I'm opposed to antisemitism. People with low IQs call all right wingers nazis. Because I assume that some of the people who read my posts might be idiots, I have to explain that I'm not a Nazi explicitly.
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There are quite a few secularists in the JTF (myself included). We did a pole on this, and we were a sizable portion, but obviously in the minority. That does NOT mean we are athiest, although there are a couple here as well.
But yes, most secular Jews are self-hating Liberals who would HATE this website.
But there are PLENTY of reasons to support this website that are non-religious. Yes, Jewish Israel is 1000x more respectable than the nearby savage countries. It is a free society, and does not brainwash its youth to hate and kill. Also western society is based upon Judeo-christianity and therefore, if you are culturally conservative, it would follow that you support zionism.
Also, we are generally against open borders, and against an over-obtrusive socialist government, and generally against all forms of liberal fascism which includes global warming hysterics.
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I'd love you to destroy those people as those people are mainly sharia obsessed theocrats.
It isn't my strategy though.
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My biggest question to non-Jews is why should the Jewish people have Israel?
The only reason I think we should be in Israel is because of Torah, and Hashem expressly telling the Jewish people to inhabit the land. If not for the Torah, and the belief in the Master of the Universe, there is no reason Jews should live in Israel. Maybe there should be a 'Jewish' state not in Israel if these Jews don't want to obey the laws given to us from Hashem.
Why should the Jews be in Israel if not for the Torah?
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I'll give you a frank answer.
1) So Muslims aren't there.
2) Nationalism. Jews need a nation. Just like Russians, Poles, Serbs have a nation. Just like Kurds need a nation.
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בס"ד
My biggest question to non-Jews is why should the Jewish people have Israel?
The only reason I think we should be in Israel is because of Torah, and Hashem expressly telling the Jewish people to inhabit the land. If not for the Torah, and the belief in the Master of the Universe, there is no reason Jews should live in Israel. Maybe there should be a 'Jewish' state not in Israel if these Jews don't want to obey the laws given to us from Hashem.
Why should the Jews be in Israel if not for the Torah?
Wonderful massage.
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בס"ד
I'll give you a frank answer.
1) So Muslims aren't there.
2) Nationalism. Jews need a nation. Just like Russians, Poles, Serbs have a nation. Just like Kurds need a nation.
1.) So settle Christians there they want Israel too.
2.) An NYC island is much safer don't u think? Also the Berobijan region atonomy, Eastern Prussia (Kalilingard), etc.
-end of sarcasm-
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Think pragmatically.
How many Christians want to form a state in Israel to take out radical Islam?
BTW, I differ from JTF in that I'm perfectly fine with right wing American Jews. I don't "demand" they go to Israel. But I wish them luck if they do.
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בס"ד
Think pragmatically.
How many Christians want to form a state in Israel to take out radical Islam?
BTW, I differ from JTF in that I'm perfectly find with right wing American Jews. I don't "demand" they go to Israel. But I wish them luck if they do.
Ask the Christians who have already declared a new Crusade.
there's no radical Islam cause there's no moderate Islam.
Also, I still don't care. There's no other place for us, not because of security problems, but because we are OBLIGATED and DESTINED to be in Israel, not anywhere else, ceou tout.
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I think my views are more similar to "revisionist zionism" and yours and JTF in general "Torah Zionism."
I think its better to be frank about where we stand on these issues, so we can can figure out how much common ground we have. I believe we have enough common ground to work together at least a bit. If you disagree, than be frank with me. I'm being frank with you, but that's so we know where we all stand.
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בס"ד
isI think my views are more similar to "revisionist zionism" and yours and JTF in general "Torah Zionism."
I think its better to be frank about where we stand on these issues, so we can can figure out how much common ground we have. I believe we have enough common ground to work together at least a bit. If you disagree, than be frank with me. I'm being frank with you, but that's so we know where we all stand.
"Revisionist Zionism" is based upon our Divide right to be here, about G-D's Promise to us. "Revisionist Zionism" is not Imperiaism. We're no thieves of land.
All "kinds" of Zionism are based of what our ancestors have cried out every day, "ותחזנה עינינו בשובך לציון ברחמים", is based on Torah. Everything which is not - is just European Militant Imperialism and nothing more.
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I'll give you a frank answer.
1) So Muslims aren't there.
2) Nationalism. Jews need a nation. Just like Russians, Poles, Serbs have a nation. Just like Kurds need a nation.
#2 doesnt require us to be in Israel.... That is my point...
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בס"ד
I'll give you a frank answer.
1) So Muslims aren't there.
2) Nationalism. Jews need a nation. Just like Russians, Poles, Serbs have a nation. Just like Kurds need a nation.
#2 doesnt require us to be in Israel.... That is my point...
Always remember the Jewish Idea..
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It doesn't require it, but pragmatically where else? Do you think you are going to convince 6 million Jews to leave Israel for a state in Russia or Texas? Remember goals have to be materially achievable.
Also as an "American right wing nationalist," Israel is very useful in my self-interest.
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בס"ד
It doesn't require it, but pragmatically where else? Do you think you are going to convince 6 million Jews to leave Israel for a state in Russia or Texas? Remember goals have to be materially achievable.
Also as an "American right wing nationalist," Israel is very useful in my self-interest.
It's good your honest and don't say you love Israel but only have interests.
Pragmatically - we had a chance to do so in Uganda, in Siberia, even in India!!! and we don't want and don't need to. There's only Israel, the G-D Promised land.
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It doesn't require it, but pragmatically where else? Do you think you are going to convince 6 million Jews to leave Israel for a state in Russia or Texas? Remember goals have to be materially achievable.
Also as an "American right wing nationalist," Israel is very useful in my self-interest.
So this is the real reason... Using Israel and the Jews to fight the arabs.... I don't find this idea very good...
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"Stateless" people get butchered during warfare and tough economic times. Look at the Gypsies through history and the Kurds during the Iran-Iraq war. They didn't have a state, and they got butchered. Look at the Armenians. They lived outside of Armenia, and the Turks butchered them. I'm a nationalist and I'm not a hypocrite. Islam is anti-nationalist. Muslims believe in global domination through imposing their religion.
Jews are decent people and I don't like to see them murdered. Jews need a state. Yes, you can argue why not put the state somewhere else, but Jews have selected Israel and I don't think that's realistically going to change. If Jews had a state in Europe or America, well I wouldn't judge them on it, but they've clearly chosen Israel.
America is an odd case. There is no American ethnicity. So that is why different people do well.
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בס"ד
"Stateless" people get butchered during warfare and tough economic times. Look at the Gypsies through histories and the Kurds during the Iran-Iraq war. They didn't have a state, and they got butchered. Look at the Armenians. They lived outside of Armenia, and the Turks butchered them. I'm a nationalist and I'm not a hypocrite. Islam is anti-nationalist. Muslims believe in global domination through imposing their religion.
Jews are decent people and I don't like to see them murdered. Jews need a state. Yes, you can argue why not put the state somewhere else, but Jews have selected Israel and I don't think that's realistically going to change. If Jews had a state in Europe or America, well I wouldn't judge them on it, but they've clearly chosen Israel.
We didn't say they need to be "Stateless". Jews haven't selected Israel but rather G-D has "selected" it for Us, starting at the days of Avraham Avinu.
What we're talking about is that we are not Imperialists who want to steal land. We want OUR land, and that's Eretz Israel.
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It doesn't require it, but pragmatically where else? Do you think you are going to convince 6 million Jews to leave Israel for a state in Russia or Texas? Remember goals have to be materially achievable.
Also as an "American right wing nationalist," Israel is very useful in my self-interest.
So this is the real reason... Using Israel and the Jews to fight the arabs.... I don't find this idea very good...
You must understand that there is deep meaning for Jews and Christians to Israel. If you dont understand this and respect it, this may not be the best forum for you. Same goes with Hindu Zionist... he understands that to us, Israel is not just another piece of land, and we feel the same about his connection to India, and we get along fine.
This is something you must accept to be here. Its pretty much mandatory. Thats not to say that we hate you if you dont beleive this, its just that it is really important for each member of JTF that zionism is more than just a practical self-interest.
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בס"ד
"Stateless" people get butchered during warfare and tough economic times. Look at the Gypsies through histories and the Kurds during the Iran-Iraq war. They didn't have a state, and they got butchered. Look at the Armenians. They lived outside of Armenia, and the Turks butchered them. I'm a nationalist and I'm not a hypocrite. Islam is anti-nationalist. Muslims believe in global domination through imposing their religion.
Jews are decent people and I don't like to see them murdered. Jews need a state. Yes, you can argue why not put the state somewhere else, but Jews have selected Israel and I don't think that's realistically going to change. If Jews had a state in Europe or America, well I wouldn't judge them on it, but they've clearly chosen Israel.
We didn't say they need to be "Stateless". Jews haven't selected Israel but rather G-D has "selected" it for Us, starting at the days of Avraham Avinu.
What we're talking about is that we are not Imperialists who want to steal land. We want OUR land, and that's Eretz Israel.
Well said. I think EagleEye must understand that this and its importance.
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I understand it but don't believe it theologically. I support it, but again, with a totally secular reasoning.
It's better to be honest about this than to play games.
With or without the JTF, my views will remain similar. I think if you draw a venn diagram, we have enough overlap.
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Jews are a nation whether they have a country or not. They were a nation before 1948. Someone's national identity or nation is not exactly the same as the country they live in, although it often corresponds. English people tend to be from England. However there are displaced nations such as the Jews were for a long time who don't necessarily have a corresponding country at the moment. Jews now have both a nation and a country to belong to.
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I understand it but don't believe it theologically. I support it, but again, with a totally secular reasoning.
It's better to be honest about this than to play games.
With or without the JTF, my views will remain similar. I think if you draw a venn diagram, we have enough overlap.
Im secular too, but overlapping views is not the point. We are telling you what this forum considers acceptable... that you HAVE to show respect and reverence towards Israel. Otherwise, this forum is not for you.
Hindu Zionist is NOT on the forum because his religion has told him to support Israel. He is on this forum because aside from our mutual disgust of Islam, he understands and that this forum requires this respect for Israel and zionism. He understands that to the JTF members it is NOT just a piece of land; and should never be discussed as such.
BTW, I try to have similar respect for Hindu nationalism, in spite of the fact that there is no religious precedence for me to do so. Again, its outa respect (even though this is a Jewish site)
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Well I don't see any evidence of "disrespect towards Israel" in my posts. Therefore I guess I meet your definition.
Yet I sense a lot of suspicion in you. Do you have paranoid personality disorder or something?
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Well I don't see any evidence of "disrespect towards Israel" in my posts. Therefore I guess I meet your definition.
Yet I sense a lot of suspicion in you. Do you have paranoid personality disorder or something?
I dont think that is the issue... But as we have said several times, we consider it essential to understand what Zionism means. It is not simply saying that Jews should have a homeland, as we said it is essential that the land be Israel, only because of the fact that Hashem gave us the land. If you are just with us because we oppose liberalism and Islam then your support is very thin and almost unneeded.
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Well I don't see any evidence of "disrespect towards Israel" in my posts. Therefore I guess I meet your definition.
Yet I sense a lot of suspicion in you. Do you have paranoid personality disorder or something?
Briann is a JTF member in good standing. He does not have any personality disorder.
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I understand "what it means." I understand that people have feelings and that feelings motivate them.
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If you want, you can turn this thread into a poll and have people "vote" to see if I'm close enough to the party line.
If you vote me out, I'll leave. If you don't, I'll stay.
If you want to.
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Well I don't see any evidence of "disrespect towards Israel" in my posts. Therefore I guess I meet your definition.
Yet I sense a lot of suspicion in you. Do you have paranoid personality disorder or something?
Wow, you really dont know how to pick your fights. ??? I think your brilliant diagnosis of my mental 'dissorder' speaks volumes about you.
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You come off as "shocked" that I view Zionism as tribal nationalism and not as something spiritual or "above" other nationalism. I don't have a religious justification for supporting an American state either. No right wing American movement has attempted to "kick me out" because I don't believe that America is the land of a chosen Christian people. If I went to support Irish nationalism, no Irish nationalist movement would browbeat me because I don't view Irish people as a special people.
Yes I respect you, but I respect all legitimate decent nationalists. Yes I understand your feelings but they stem from your philosophy and my philosophy is much more secular. Good luck recruiting Gentiles with the attitude that you are better than everyone else.
The reason I'm being so frank here, is that I will continue to push Zionism even if what I'm saying here makes me fall out of favor. I'd like to stay here, but if you feel otherwise, you won't turn me into an anti-semite. I'll just use other platforms to convey my message.
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You come off as "shocked" that I view Zionism as tribal nationalism and not as something spiritual or "above" other nationalism. I don't have a religious justification for supporting an American state either. No right wing American movement has attempted to "kick me out" because I don't believe that America is the land of a chosen Christian people. If I went to support Irish nationalism, no Irish nationalist movement would browbeat me because I don't view Irish people as a special people.
Yes I respect you, but I respect all legitimate decent nationalists. Yes I understand your feelings but they stem from your philosophy and my philosophy is much more secular. Good luck recruiting Gentiles with the attitude that you are better than everyone else.
The reason I'm being so frank here, is that I will continue to push Zionism even if what I'm saying here makes me fall out of favor. I'd like to stay here, but if you feel otherwise, you won't turn me into an anti-semite. I'll just use other platforms to convey my message.
But your stated positions are not in line with what we believe Zionism is. Your definition is devoid of any meaning, only what you define it to mean. As I have stated all along, there is no reason why the Jewish people can't be given land in Africa, South America, or on some island in the pacific....
The problem with secular 'zionism' is that it has no basis in fact. The only thing which makes the Jewish people Jewish is that we have Torah. Judaism is not a racial trait, nor is it strictly national... Judaism is a trait which is passed from a Jewish mother to a Jewish child. Your goals, it seems, doesn't even care about this and only wants to establish a place where jews can live {which as I said may as well be a pacific island}.
Zionism comes from the Hebrew word Tzion, or Har Tzion, the mountain of Zion which is the Temple mount. Zionism has for millenium meant the desire for the Jewish people to return to their homeland, the land promised to Abraham and his sons... To remove this from the definition is curious and I don't know what you are trying to accomplish.
You also stated that you think Hitler did things wrong... I for one am still suspicious of your intentions..
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If you really 'love' the Jewish people you would understand why we desire to live in Israel, not just so we can fight the Muslims and the liberals.
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Let's all do the secular dance!
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There is a reason. Because the Jewish people don't want it anywhere else and because many of them have a religious philosophical view of the world.
I stated that Hitler did things wrong because unintelligent people see nazis behind every tree. They see secular and authoritarian and automatically assume nazi. If you'd deal with the paranoia problem, I wouldn't have to say that. The fact that you persist in accusing me of being sympathetic to Hitler proves to me that you are as paranoid as I alleged.
I'm not a very "Loving" person. I respect and admire the Jewish people within proportion. I wish them well.
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בס"ד
There is a reason. Because the Jewish people don't want it anywhere else and because many of them have a religious philosophical view of the world.
Many Jews, and most of them in some times, wanted it in Uganda. Does it give us the right to estalish a state there? No need to be hypocritcal, just honest and frank. G-D exists, Torah is truth, Jews will return to Zion wether they like it (Zionist Jews) or not (escaping from Gentiles), eventually.
The fact that people want something isn't enough to give them the right.
I stated that Hitler did things wrong because unintelligent people see nazis behind every tree. They see secular and authoritarian and automatically assume nazi. If you'd deal with the paranoia problem, I wouldn't have to say that. The fact that you persist in accusing me of being sympathetic to Hitler proves to me that you are as paranoid as I alleged.
What did he do right?
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He was wrong to murder Jews, murder Poles, murder Russians, murder Gypsies, help Croats murder Serbs.
He was wrong to start a world war. Mussolini was wrong to follow Hitler into war. Japan was wrong to follow Hitler into war.
Outside of that, he did fix the economy. He did oppose Bolshevism. He did oppose extreme liberal capitalism. Had he not killed people and started a world war, he'd have been a different person.
He used tooth paste. That doesn't mean I won't. You are being malicious by trying to imply that I support Hitler, if not downright retarded.
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בס"ד
He was wrong to murder Jews, murder Poles, murder Russians, murder Gypsies, help Croats murder Serbs.
He was wrong to start a world war. Mussolini was wrong to follow Hitler into war. Japan was wrong to follow Hitler into war.
Outside of that, he did fix the economy. He did oppose Bolshevism. He did oppose extreme liberal capitalism. Had he not killed people and started a world war, he'd have been a different person.
He used tooth paste. That doesn't mean I won't. You are being malicious by trying to imply that I support Hitler, if not downright retarded.
That's not the full list but ok (he has done a LOT more horrible things than listed above, but I don't have the time to list em all right now).
About the economy, that'd be a matter of time for the economy to collapse again and maybe even worse, so..
About his opposition to Bolshevism, so what and in what ways?
"extreme Liberal Capitalism" - and without Leftie slogans?
If he hadn't start a war, he could have just invited the Soviet citizens to join him in his fight against Bolshevism and just use them to murder, concentrate, rape, rob, humiliate, etc Jews, what he has been doing long before the war ever started.
You know you should calm yourself down you faggy swiney piece of sub-"human" degenerate, do your mother a favor and slice that empty head of urs with a Jappie sword they used to slam you with as a baby.
That was the last time you call a Jew (whatever me or Muman) retarded.
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He was wrong to murder Jews, murder Poles, murder Russians, murder Gypsies, help Croats murder Serbs.
He was wrong to start a world war. Mussolini was wrong to follow Hitler into war. Japan was wrong to follow Hitler into war.
Outside of that, he did fix the economy. He did oppose Bolshevism. He did oppose extreme liberal capitalism. Had he not killed people and started a world war, he'd have been a different person.
He used tooth paste. That doesn't mean I won't. You are being malicious by trying to imply that I support Hitler, if not downright retarded.
I dont GET your type people. I dont. This is a RIGHT WING forum, Hitler was a faggot endorser, he was a NATIONAL SOCIALIST- this is the very thing we are FIGHTING against.
I think that you really don't like Jewish people, this is your problem.
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I don't like people who endlessly blather away at imaginary enemies. I've seen non-Jews do the same thing, arguing that Jews are responsible for every evil in the world. I've condemned them for it.
The JTF has regressed in quality since when I originally joined it. The people here now are relentless paranoids.
Perhaps you purged away all the good members.
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You guys have really piled on me but I'm being patient here. I'm giving you a chance to reconsider and calm down.
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Eagle Eye, JTF is a religious Jewish forum that welcomes non-Jewish members who support Israel being a Jewish state and having her Biblical borders.
Now being that many members lost their family thanks to Hitler, the last thing you should have done was come here and casually say that Hitler did some things wrong. The man was a monster, regardless of what may have happened temporarily with the German economy while he was in power.
So if you're convinced that the forum has deteriorated since the last time you were here. Then leave and start your own forum. Or I can ban you.
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בס"ד
EagleEye, actually, I don't care if Hitler did some positive things or not (and he didn't). I don't want the German economy to be fixed (not that it was for long time), I don't want neither of that. The fact that he has committed the Holocaust, eliminates the importance of any sign of positive deeds from him. Nothing would EVER be compareable to this inhumane insane crime, this was a MONSTROUS crime, that deletes any sign of positiveness from him.
The fact that you defend him, or try to diminish the major imporant of the Holocaust, my "friend", makes you a Nazi.
Lisa, just ban that piece of drek.
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Done.
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He must have been from StørmFrønt...
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When he first started posting here are while back, I had exchanged a few messages with him. Suffice it to say, he was messed up.
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Good Riddance to bad rubbish!
This guy started to get on my nerves from his first posting. To me, and I believe to most Jewish Kahanists, the issue is not just 'a homeland' for Jews. The issue is to reestablish the Jewish state in Israel, and gather in the Jewish exiles, to Rebuild the Temple, and to usher in the era of Moshiach. Any other 'practicle' reason is secondary to me.
As I stated earlier... If not for Torah the 'Jews' could live in any country in this world... But with the Torah, which establishes who is 'Jewish' and what a Jew is, has established that Jews must try to inhabit the land of Israel. We know where Israel is, we know where the Temple was, and we know that we should be there. The rest of the world, and all Zionists, need to know what we are trying to accomplish.
אור חדש על ציון תאיר
A new light will shine forth from Zion!
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He must have been from StørmFrønt...
Actually he was according to Lisa.
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When he first came here a while back, I had exchanged a few private messages with him. He told he had some Jewish ancestry.
Some people are very sick in the head.
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Because I assume that some of the people who read my posts might be idiots, I have to explain that I'm not a Nazi explicitly.
Pedofronter!
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When he first started posting here are while back, I had exchanged a few messages with him. Suffice it to say, he was messed up.
Maybe he's one of the boys Anus-T molested and brainwashed to the dark side of the butt-shaft.