JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zelhar on December 29, 2009, 01:06:44 AM
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If Allah is God, then the Quran is not the word of Allah.
or, equivalently:
If The Quran is the word of Allah, then Allah is not God.
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It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
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בס"ד
It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
Theologically, they are, since they're both one G-D who created the universe, the idea of divinity is the same, or let's just sum it up by - both Judaism and Islam are Monotheistic, and that's what he meant, the difference is known (the difference between Torah and Islam), the fact that its name and theological background roots deeply in Pagan religions doesn't matter here.
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I mean the Allah of the Koran, not "Allah" as the Arabic translation of G-d.
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בס"ד
I mean the Allah of the Koran, not "Allah" as the Arabic translation of G-d.
"Allah" of the Qur'an is the same as the Arabic translation of G-D, "Al-illa". According to the Qur'an and according to Torah, G-D is One, Almighty, the Creator of the Universe, and all other Monotheistic concepts, ceou tout, that's what the Rambam meant, he didn't get into the deep theology, moral, and all that.
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בס"ד
If Allah is G-d, then the Quran is not the word of Allah.
or, equivalently:
If The Quran is the word of Allah, then Allah is not G-d.
What did you want to say here?
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he didn't get into the deep theology, moral, and all that.
what do you mean?
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בס"ד
he didn't get into the deep theology, moral, and all that.
what do you mean?
Look, for a Jew, to believe in Islam is Kefirah (infidelity), since it's an insane contradiction of Toraht Moshe. What I meant is that he didn't go to the differences between Judaism and Islam ("Allah"'s hatred of the Jewish people, its support of immoral deeds, Islamic theology, etc) - what he was refering to was the Monotheistic concept of Islam (or Yichud - uniqueneess of divinity). What you're saying is that the Rambam G-D forbid said that Judaism and Islam are the same, you didn't understand what the Rambam meant.
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בס"ד
It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
Theologically, they are, since they're both one G-D who created the universe, the idea of divinity is the same, or let's just sum it up by - both Judaism and Islam are Monotheistic, and that's what he meant, the difference is known (the difference between Torah and Islam), the fact that its name and theological background roots deeply in Pagan religions doesn't matter here.
even theologically they dont have same idea, Muslims technically are pagans for whom worshipping towards the direction of the black rock is compulsory. From study of ancient Arab religions, we can conclude that Al-Lah is a pagan moon God.
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No, I know he didn't mean that at all! I said that the Rambam said that technically Allah and Hashem are the same deity, not that Islam is Judaism!
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בס"ד
בס"ד
It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
Theologically, they are, since they're both one G-D who created the universe, the idea of divinity is the same, or let's just sum it up by - both Judaism and Islam are Monotheistic, and that's what he meant, the difference is known (the difference between Torah and Islam), the fact that its name and theological background roots deeply in Pagan religions doesn't matter here.
even theologically they dont have same idea, Muslims technically are pagans for whom worshipping towards the direction of the black rock is compulsory. From study of ancient Arab religions, we can conclude that Al-Lah is a pagan moon G-d.
They don't worship the Ka'bah. They do sanctify it but they don't worship it. I repeat, the theological background/the origin of its name is not a factor, but the uniquenesess that Islam does to the Divinity.
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בס"ד
No, I know he didn't mean that at all! I said that the Rambam said that technically Allah and Hashem are the same deity, not that Islam is Judaism!
He said that they're not idol worshippers since that they're doing Yichud an worshipping one G-d.
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בס"ד
"אלו הישמעאלים אינם עובדי עבודה זרה כלל, וכבר נכרתה מפיהם ומליבם, והם מייחדים לאל יתברך ייחוד כראוי, ייחוד שאין בו דופי (מונותיאיזם צרוף). ולא מפני שהם משקרים עלינו ומכזבים ואומרים, שאנו אומרים שיש לאל יתעלה בן, נכזב כך אנחנו עליהם ונאמר שהם עובדי עבודה זרה. התורה העידה עליהם, אשר פיהם דבר שוא וימינם ימין שקר .והיא העידה עלינו שארית ישראל לא יעשו עוולה ולא ידברו כזב ולא ימצא בפיהם לשון תרמית. ואף שמתחילה היתה בבית-תפילתם עבודה זרה, עכשיו כולם לבם לשמים, וטעותם וטיפשותם בדברים אחרים הן שאי אפשר לאומרן בכתב, מפני פושעי ורשעי ישראל (המלשינים), אבל בייחוד השם יתעלה אין להם טעות כלל".
As I see he responds to their wrong ideas and hatred of Israel, but he says that they don't have mistakes in their Uniqueness of the Divinity (Monotheism - Yichud).
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The problem may not be with the concept but with the fictitious manner in which the whole so-called knowledge was transpired. Otherwise no more so-called Prophet was required.
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Taoists believe in the One Tao.
Just because muslims claim they worship 'the one god' (which in essence is a mere theory), doesn't mean [censored].
You can clearly see that islam only leads to pedosexuality, bestiality and massmurder. Their 'one god' is not true.
Claiming nor believing to worship 'the one god' obviously means [censored].
You will be known by your deeds.
The 'awareness/conciousness' of muslims is obviously (mis)directed to someplace else than the 'real' one god, so any claim that muslims worship the 'one god' is a mere display of lack of understanding and taking theory over the obvious truth.
For the slow ones:
"The mind and spirit of a praying muslim goes not to
-the one god
but
-to someplace else; some place bad"
Is it really that hard? Even atheist quantum physics scientists come closer to god than a muslim.
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בס"ד
Taoists believe in the One Tao.
Just because muslims claim they worship 'the one G-d' (which in essence is a mere theory), doesn't mean drek.
You can clearly see that islam only leads to pedosexuality, bestiality and massmurder. Their 'one G-d' is not true.
Claiming nor believing to worship 'the one G-d' obviously means drek.
You will be known by your deeds.
The 'awareness/conciousness' of muslims is obviously (mis)directed to someplace else than the 'real' one G-d, so any claim that muslims worship the 'one G-d' is a mere display of lack of understanding and taking theory over the obvious truth.
For the slow ones:
"The mind and spirit of a praying muslim goes not to
-the one G-d
but
-to someplace else; some place bad"
Is it really that hard? Even atheist quantum physics scientists come closer to G-d than a muslim.
Let me sup it up by one word, BULLS*IT, believing in one G-d isn't suggesting positive or negative deeds, it has nothing to do with moral. And let me say one more thing, Atheists are more dangerous and immoral than any Muslim.
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בס"ד
The problem may not be with the concept but with the fictitious manner in which the whole so-called knowledge was transpired. Otherwise no more so-called Prophet was required.
What?
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בס"ד
The problem may not be with the concept but with the fictitious manner in which the whole so-called knowledge was transpired. Otherwise no more so-called Prophet was required.
What?
Yes....
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בס"ד
בס"ד
The problem may not be with the concept but with the fictitious manner in which the whole so-called knowledge was transpired. Otherwise no more so-called Prophet was required.
What?
Yes....
I meant that I didn't understand your point. ???
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בס"ד
בס"ד
The problem may not be with the concept but with the fictitious manner in which the whole so-called knowledge was transpired. Otherwise no more so-called Prophet was required.
What?
Yes....
I meant that I didn't understand your point. ???
It means Moses (Musa) was enough and Mhmad was no more required to be seen anywhere....
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"
Taoists believe in the One Tao.
Just because muslims claim they worship 'the one G-d' (which in essence is a mere theory), doesn't mean drek.
You can clearly see that islam only leads to pedosexuality, bestiality and massmurder. Their 'one G-d' is not true.
Claiming nor believing to worship 'the one G-d' obviously means drek.
You will be known by your deeds.
The 'awareness/conciousness' of muslims is obviously (mis)directed to someplace else than the 'real' one G-d, so any claim that muslims worship the 'one G-d' is a mere display of lack of understanding and taking theory over the obvious truth.
For the slow ones:
"The mind and spirit of a praying muslim goes not to
-the one G-d
but
-to someplace else; some place bad"
Is it really that hard? Even atheist quantum physics scientists come closer to G-d than a muslim.
Let me sup it up by one word, BULLS*IT, believing in one G-d isn't suggesting positive or negative deeds, it has nothing to do with moral. And let me say one more thing, Atheists are more dangerous and immoral than any Muslim.
Yes, I already was under the impression that you were a forefighter for religion without morality.
Religion without morality will lead to nothing. You might just as well believe in the one satan.
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"Let me sup it up by one word, BULLS*IT, believing in one G-d isn't suggesting positive or negative deeds, it has nothing to do with moral. And let me say one more thing, Atheists are more dangerous and immoral than any Muslim."
When was the last time an atheist committed a suicide bombing? :::D
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"Let me sup it up by one word, BULLS*IT, believing in one G-d isn't suggesting positive or negative deeds, it has nothing to do with moral. And let me say one more thing, Atheists are more dangerous and immoral than any Muslim."
When was the last time an atheist committed a suicide bombing? :::D
i think when Ron said "Atheists" he must have meant "Communists"
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בס"ד
It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
Theologically, they are, since they're both one G-D who created the universe, the idea of divinity is the same, or let's just sum it up by - both Judaism and Islam are Monotheistic, and that's what he meant, the difference is known (the difference between Torah and Islam), the fact that its name and theological background roots deeply in Pagan religions doesn't matter here.
even theologically they dont have same idea, Muslims technically are pagans for whom worshipping towards the direction of the black rock is compulsory. From study of ancient Arab religions, we can conclude that Al-Lah is a pagan moon G-d.
HZ,
Are you aware that Jews are required to pray facing Eastward toward the Beit HaMikdash/Temple mount? I dont think that there is anything particularly wrong with praying facing toward something.... I think this too is stolen from Judaism...
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בס"ד
If Allah is G-d, then the Quran is not the word of Allah.
or, equivalently:
If The Quran is the word of Allah, then Allah is not G-d.
What did you want to say here?
I tried to sum up elegantly the two main opinion in this forum regarding this subject. And also to clear out why in any case essentially since we are all agreeing on the fact that:
The Quran is not the word of God,
in reality it doesn't really matter if one thinks that Allah is God or not.
-
בס"ד
"
Taoists believe in the One Tao.
Just because muslims claim they worship 'the one G-d' (which in essence is a mere theory), doesn't mean drek.
You can clearly see that islam only leads to pedosexuality, bestiality and massmurder. Their 'one G-d' is not true.
Claiming nor believing to worship 'the one G-d' obviously means drek.
You will be known by your deeds.
The 'awareness/conciousness' of muslims is obviously (mis)directed to someplace else than the 'real' one G-d, so any claim that muslims worship the 'one G-d' is a mere display of lack of understanding and taking theory over the obvious truth.
For the slow ones:
"The mind and spirit of a praying muslim goes not to
-the one G-d
but
-to someplace else; some place bad"
Is it really that hard? Even atheist quantum physics scientists come closer to G-d than a muslim.
Let me sup it up by one word, BULLS*IT, believing in one G-d isn't suggesting positive or negative deeds, it has nothing to do with moral. And let me say one more thing, Atheists are more dangerous and immoral than any Muslim.
Yes, I already was under the impression that you were a forefighter for religion without morality.
Religion without morality will lead to nothing. You might just as well believe in the one satan.
Yes,I already was under the impression that you'd never know what religion is even if it'd kill your mother. Not every religious concept has to do anything with morality. Yes, I do believe there's one Satan, like every other Jew, go worship your statue.
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בס"ד
"אלו הישמעאלים אינם עובדי עבודה זרה כלל, וכבר נכרתה מפיהם ומליבם, והם מייחדים לאל יתברך ייחוד כראוי, ייחוד שאין בו דופי (מונותיאיזם צרוף). ולא מפני שהם משקרים עלינו ומכזבים ואומרים, שאנו אומרים שיש לאל יתעלה בן, נכזב כך אנחנו עליהם ונאמר שהם עובדי עבודה זרה. התורה העידה עליהם, אשר פיהם דבר שוא וימינם ימין שקר .והיא העידה עלינו שארית ישראל לא יעשו עוולה ולא ידברו כזב ולא ימצא בפיהם לשון תרמית. ואף שמתחילה היתה בבית-תפילתם עבודה זרה, עכשיו כולם לבם לשמים, וטעותם וטיפשותם בדברים אחרים הן שאי אפשר לאומרן בכתב, מפני פושעי ורשעי ישראל (המלשינים), אבל בייחוד השם יתעלה אין להם טעות כלל".
As I see he responds to their wrong ideas and hatred of Israel, but he says that they don't have mistakes in their Uniqueness of the Divinity (Monotheism - Yichud).
This is a great quote from the Rambam, so I will try to translate it:
Them Ismaelites are not practicing Avodah Zrara (~idolatry) at all, which had long been erased from their mouth and their heart, and they correctly recognize the unity and uniqueness of God, a unity without a flaw. And although they tell lies about us, claiming that we say God has a son, we shall not make up lies about them, claiming they are idol worshipers. The Torah testifies about their nature, that their mouth speaks empty words, and their conscience is deceitful. It also testifies about us the remnant of Israel, shall do no injustice, and speak no lie, and their mouth shall not speak deceit. And while in the beginning their house of prayer was idolatrous, now they all aim their heart to the heavens, and their errors and stupidities are in other matters that one cannot put to writing, due to the informers among our people, but on the unity of God they have no error.
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בס"ד
בס"ד
If Allah is G-d, then the Quran is not the word of Allah.
or, equivalently:
If The Quran is the word of Allah, then Allah is not G-d.
What did you want to say here?
I tried to sum up elegantly the two main opinion in this forum regarding this subject. And also to clear out why in any case essentially since we are all agreeing on the fact that:
The Quran is not the word of G-d,
in reality it doesn't really matter if one thinks that Allah is G-d or not.
I didn't understand it once again. Islam is a false religion, therefore il-Qur'an wasn't given by G-d to Muhammad but was dedicated to his slave in Macka and Yathrab.
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בס"ד
בס"ד
If Allah is G-d, then the Quran is not the word of Allah.
or, equivalently:
If The Quran is the word of Allah, then Allah is not G-d.
What did you want to say here?
I tried to sum up elegantly the two main opinion in this forum regarding this subject. And also to clear out why in any case essentially since we are all agreeing on the fact that:
The Quran is not the word of G-d,
in reality it doesn't really matter if one thinks that Allah is G-d or not.
I didn't understand it once again. Islam is a false religion, therefore il-Qur'an wasn't given by G-d to Muhammad but was dedicated to his slave in Macka and Yathrab.
But you do understand the proposition itself, right ?
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בס"ד
"Let me sup it up by one word, BULLS*IT, believing in one G-d isn't suggesting positive or negative deeds, it has nothing to do with moral. And let me say one more thing, Atheists are more dangerous and immoral than any Muslim."
When was the last time an atheist committed a suicide bombing? :::D
Ever heard of the Commies?! Atheists don't believe in moral.
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בס"ד
בס"ד
בס"ד
The problem may not be with the concept but with the fictitious manner in which the whole so-called knowledge was transpired. Otherwise no more so-called Prophet was required.
What?
Yes....
I meant that I didn't understand your point. ???
It means Moses (Musa) was enough and Mhmad was no more required to be seen anywhere....
There were many other real Prophets after Moshe Rabeinu (not Jesus, or Muhammad G-D forbid of course, I mean the ones you find in the Tanach), you're not the one to de-legitimate them.
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Yes Ron,
Maybe non-Jews don't realize it but Prophets existed in Israel for many centuries.... I have heard it said that almost all of Israel was able to receive prophecy at some level at some point... The entire part of T a N a K known as Naviim {or Prophets} documents all these great Jewish prophets.... Maybe our xtian members have heard of the greats like Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Joshua, Deborah, and Issiah...
The age of prophecy ended shortly after the destruction of the 2nd Temple...
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I very well agree that the ...Prophets existed in Israel for many centuries....
Obviously I meant it only to the other false one outside the present Israel.
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I thought Allah was the devil?
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בס"ד
I thought Allah was the devil?
Allah is imaginry and the Sahtan is one of G-D's angels and he's totally curved (Muman correct me if the word I used is wrong) to His will. Only sometimes G-D gives him somewhat of freedom to see what do we do with our free will. Of course he doesn't effect G-D's Will.
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בס"ד
There were false-Prophets in Israel also (what's present Israel?). Some of them are very well-known.
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בס"ד
I thought Allah was the devil?
Allah is imaginry and the Sahtan is one of G-D's angels and he's totally curved (Muman correct me if the word I used is wrong) to His will. Only sometimes G-D gives him somewhat of freedom to see what do we do with our free will. Of course he doesn't effect G-D's Will.
Shalom Ron,
Yes, your understanding of Satan is true to the Jewish understanding {according to my own understanding}.... I think that you mean that Satans will is the will of Hashem, that he simply acts as the prosecutor and the tempter. Free will is tested by Satan and he only doing the job which he was created for.
Angels do not have free will {as we understand it} according to what I have learned about the Malochim.
PS: Jews have no concept of 'The Devil'... It is purely a xtian belief.
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בס"ד
It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
Theologically, they are, since they're both one G-D who created the universe, the idea of divinity is the same, or let's just sum it up by - both Judaism and Islam are Monotheistic, and that's what he meant, the difference is known (the difference between Torah and Islam), the fact that its name and theological background roots deeply in Pagan religions doesn't matter here.
even theologically they dont have same idea, Muslims technically are pagans for whom worshipping towards the direction of the black rock is compulsory. From study of ancient Arab religions, we can conclude that Al-Lah is a pagan moon G-d.
HZ,
Are you aware that Jews are required to pray facing Eastward toward the Beit HaMikdash/Temple mount? I dont think that there is anything particularly wrong with praying facing toward something.... I think this too is stolen from Judaism...
Muman there is a great difference l' havdil btw the Beit Hamikdash and the qaaba .The Beit Ha'Mikdash is recognized even by the Quranfreaks as center of creation as well as where Avraham was told to sacrifice Yitzchak.But the Qabba was pre Muslim place of avodah zara the muslims choose to pray towards the site of qabba a site which in itself proves they are idolaters
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בס"ד
It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
Theologically, they are, since they're both one G-D who created the universe, the idea of divinity is the same, or let's just sum it up by - both Judaism and Islam are Monotheistic, and that's what he meant, the difference is known (the difference between Torah and Islam), the fact that its name and theological background roots deeply in Pagan religions doesn't matter here.
even theologically they dont have same idea, Muslims technically are pagans for whom worshipping towards the direction of the black rock is compulsory. From study of ancient Arab religions, we can conclude that Al-Lah is a pagan moon G-d.
HZ,
Are you aware that Jews are required to pray facing Eastward toward the Beit HaMikdash/Temple mount? I dont think that there is anything particularly wrong with praying facing toward something.... I think this too is stolen from Judaism...
Muman there is a great difference l' havdil btw the Beit Hamikdash and the qaaba .The Beit Ha'Mikdash is recognized even by the Quranfreaks as center of creation as well as where Avraham was told to sacrifice Yitzchak.But the Qabba was pre Muslim place of avodah zara the muslims choose to pray towards the site of qabba a site which in itself proves they are idolaters
I was not aware of that... I thought that the issue which HZ had was the fact that they prayed in one particular direction. I don't have any idea what the heck the Qaaba is supposed to be... Looks to me like the Tefillin boxes which I wear...
(http://www.jewishlifeseries.com/tefillin/tefillin.jpg) VS (http://caravanofdreams.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/kaaba2.jpg)
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בס"ד
It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
Theologically, they are, since they're both one G-D who created the universe, the idea of divinity is the same, or let's just sum it up by - both Judaism and Islam are Monotheistic, and that's what he meant, the difference is known (the difference between Torah and Islam), the fact that its name and theological background roots deeply in Pagan religions doesn't matter here.
even theologically they dont have same idea, Muslims technically are pagans for whom worshipping towards the direction of the black rock is compulsory. From study of ancient Arab religions, we can conclude that Al-Lah is a pagan moon G-d.
HZ,
Are you aware that Jews are required to pray facing Eastward toward the Beit HaMikdash/Temple mount? I dont think that there is anything particularly wrong with praying facing toward something.... I think this too is stolen from Judaism...
Muman there is a great difference l' havdil btw the Beit Hamikdash and the qaaba .The Beit Ha'Mikdash is recognized even by the Quranfreaks as center of creation as well as where Avraham was told to sacrifice Yitzchak.But the Qabba was pre Muslim place of avodah zara the muslims choose to pray towards the site of qabba a site which in itself proves they are idolaters
I was not aware of that... I thought that the issue which HZ had was the fact that they prayed in one particular direction. I don't have any idea what the heck the Qaaba is supposed to be... Looks to me like the Tefillin boxes which I wear...
(http://www.jewishlifeseries.com/tefillin/tefillin.jpg)
G-D forbid
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Of course the qaaba is not Tefillin... It just looks like it because it is a box... ;D
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Of course the qaaba is not Tefillin... It just looks like it because it is a box... ;D
oh :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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בס"ד
בס"ד
It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
Theologically, they are, since they're both one G-D who created the universe, the idea of divinity is the same, or let's just sum it up by - both Judaism and Islam are Monotheistic, and that's what he meant, the difference is known (the difference between Torah and Islam), the fact that its name and theological background roots deeply in Pagan religions doesn't matter here.
even theologically they dont have same idea, Muslims technically are pagans for whom worshipping towards the direction of the black rock is compulsory. From study of ancient Arab religions, we can conclude that Al-Lah is a pagan moon G-d.
HZ,
Are you aware that Jews are required to pray facing Eastward toward the Beit HaMikdash/Temple mount? I dont think that there is anything particularly wrong with praying facing toward something.... I think this too is stolen from Judaism...
Muman there is a great difference l' havdil btw the Beit Hamikdash and the qaaba .The Beit Ha'Mikdash is recognized even by the Quranfreaks as center of creation as well as where Avraham was told to sacrifice Yitzchak.But the Qabba was pre Muslim place of avodah zara the muslims choose to pray towards the site of qabba a site which in itself proves they are idolaters
That's not true. The Muslims do believe in the existence of Bei Ha'Mikqdash, but they believed Avraham (or "Ibrahim") was told by "Allah" to sacrifise Ishamel (or "Ismail") and not Yiztchak, the Muslims DO NOT sanctify it, and not only that, they do not sanctify ANYTHING in Jerusalem or Israel at all, it's all il Taqqiyah towards the retarded Israel and the West.
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בס"ד
בס"ד
It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
Theologically, they are, since they're both one G-D who created the universe, the idea of divinity is the same, or let's just sum it up by - both Judaism and Islam are Monotheistic, and that's what he meant, the difference is known (the difference between Torah and Islam), the fact that its name and theological background roots deeply in Pagan religions doesn't matter here.
even theologically they dont have same idea, Muslims technically are pagans for whom worshipping towards the direction of the black rock is compulsory. From study of ancient Arab religions, we can conclude that Al-Lah is a pagan moon G-d.
HZ,
Are you aware that Jews are required to pray facing Eastward toward the Beit HaMikdash/Temple mount? I dont think that there is anything particularly wrong with praying facing toward something.... I think this too is stolen from Judaism...
Muman there is a great difference l' havdil btw the Beit Hamikdash and the qaaba .The Beit Ha'Mikdash is recognized even by the Quranfreaks as center of creation as well as where Avraham was told to sacrifice Yitzchak.But the Qabba was pre Muslim place of avodah zara the muslims choose to pray towards the site of qabba a site which in itself proves they are idolaters
That's not true. The Muslims do believe in the existence of Bei Ha'Mikqdash, but they believed Avraham (or "Ibrahim") was told by "Allah" to sacrifise Ishamel (or "Ismail") and not Yiztchak, the Muslims DO NOT sanctify it, and not only that, they do not sanctify ANYTHING in Jerusalem or Israel at all, it's all il Taqqiyah towards the retarded Israel and the West.
This is true 100% politically, but i was saying that they pray towards a pre Islamic site which was a site of avoda zara
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בס"ד
בס"ד
בס"ד
It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
Theologically, they are, since they're both one G-D who created the universe, the idea of divinity is the same, or let's just sum it up by - both Judaism and Islam are Monotheistic, and that's what he meant, the difference is known (the difference between Torah and Islam), the fact that its name and theological background roots deeply in Pagan religions doesn't matter here.
even theologically they dont have same idea, Muslims technically are pagans for whom worshipping towards the direction of the black rock is compulsory. From study of ancient Arab religions, we can conclude that Al-Lah is a pagan moon G-d.
HZ,
Are you aware that Jews are required to pray facing Eastward toward the Beit HaMikdash/Temple mount? I dont think that there is anything particularly wrong with praying facing toward something.... I think this too is stolen from Judaism...
Muman there is a great difference l' havdil btw the Beit Hamikdash and the qaaba .The Beit Ha'Mikdash is recognized even by the Quranfreaks as center of creation as well as where Avraham was told to sacrifice Yitzchak.But the Qabba was pre Muslim place of avodah zara the muslims choose to pray towards the site of qabba a site which in itself proves they are idolaters
That's not true. The Muslims do believe in the existence of Bei Ha'Mikqdash, but they believed Avraham (or "Ibrahim") was told by "Allah" to sacrifise Ishamel (or "Ismail") and not Yiztchak, the Muslims DO NOT sanctify it, and not only that, they do not sanctify ANYTHING in Jerusalem or Israel at all, it's all il Taqqiyah towards the retarded Israel and the West.
This is true 100% politically, but i was saying that they pray towards a pre Islamic site which was a site of avoda zara
Yes that is true, this was the center of a Pagan Pantheon in which many idols were worshipped and Muhammad "sanctified" it in order to get money from the wealthy people of Macka who owned this place and its surrounding area.
-
בס"ד
It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
Theologically, they are, since they're both one G-D who created the universe, the idea of divinity is the same, or let's just sum it up by - both Judaism and Islam are Monotheistic, and that's what he meant, the difference is known (the difference between Torah and Islam), the fact that its name and theological background roots deeply in Pagan religions doesn't matter here.
even theologically they dont have same idea, Muslims technically are pagans for whom worshipping towards the direction of the black rock is compulsory. From study of ancient Arab religions, we can conclude that Al-Lah is a pagan moon G-d.
HZ,
Are you aware that Jews are required to pray facing Eastward toward the Beit HaMikdash/Temple mount? I dont think that there is anything particularly wrong with praying facing toward something.... I think this too is stolen from Judaism...
Muman there is a great difference l' havdil btw the Beit Hamikdash and the qaaba .The Beit Ha'Mikdash is recognized even by the Quranfreaks as center of creation as well as where Avraham was told to sacrifice Yitzchak.But the Qabba was pre Muslim place of avodah zara the muslims choose to pray towards the site of qabba a site which in itself proves they are idolaters
The Quran turned the Aqeda story upside down. According to which, The Aqeda took place in Mecca with Ishmael being the son to be sacrificed.
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בס"ד
בס"ד
בס"ד
It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
Theologically, they are, since they're both one G-D who created the universe, the idea of divinity is the same, or let's just sum it up by - both Judaism and Islam are Monotheistic, and that's what he meant, the difference is known (the difference between Torah and Islam), the fact that its name and theological background roots deeply in Pagan religions doesn't matter here.
even theologically they dont have same idea, Muslims technically are pagans for whom worshipping towards the direction of the black rock is compulsory. From study of ancient Arab religions, we can conclude that Al-Lah is a pagan moon G-d.
HZ,
Are you aware that Jews are required to pray facing Eastward toward the Beit HaMikdash/Temple mount? I dont think that there is anything particularly wrong with praying facing toward something.... I think this too is stolen from Judaism...
Muman there is a great difference l' havdil btw the Beit Hamikdash and the qaaba .The Beit Ha'Mikdash is recognized even by the Quranfreaks as center of creation as well as where Avraham was told to sacrifice Yitzchak.But the Qabba was pre Muslim place of avodah zara the muslims choose to pray towards the site of qabba a site which in itself proves they are idolaters
That's not true. The Muslims do believe in the existence of Bei Ha'Mikqdash, but they believed Avraham (or "Ibrahim") was told by "Allah" to sacrifise Ishamel (or "Ismail") and not Yiztchak, the Muslims DO NOT sanctify it, and not only that, they do not sanctify ANYTHING in Jerusalem or Israel at all, it's all il Taqqiyah towards the retarded Israel and the West.
This is true 100% politically, but i was saying that they pray towards a pre Islamic site which was a site of avoda zara
Yes that is true, this was the center of a Pagan Pantheon in which many idols were worshipped and Muhammad "sanctified" it in order to get money from the wealthy people of Macka who owned this place and its surrounding area.
At least they stopped pilgriming in the nude as they did in pre-Islamic times.
-
בס"ד
בס"ד
בס"ד
בס"ד
It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
Theologically, they are, since they're both one G-D who created the universe, the idea of divinity is the same, or let's just sum it up by - both Judaism and Islam are Monotheistic, and that's what he meant, the difference is known (the difference between Torah and Islam), the fact that its name and theological background roots deeply in Pagan religions doesn't matter here.
even theologically they dont have same idea, Muslims technically are pagans for whom worshipping towards the direction of the black rock is compulsory. From study of ancient Arab religions, we can conclude that Al-Lah is a pagan moon G-d.
HZ,
Are you aware that Jews are required to pray facing Eastward toward the Beit HaMikdash/Temple mount? I dont think that there is anything particularly wrong with praying facing toward something.... I think this too is stolen from Judaism...
Muman there is a great difference l' havdil btw the Beit Hamikdash and the qaaba .The Beit Ha'Mikdash is recognized even by the Quranfreaks as center of creation as well as where Avraham was told to sacrifice Yitzchak.But the Qabba was pre Muslim place of avodah zara the muslims choose to pray towards the site of qabba a site which in itself proves they are idolaters
That's not true. The Muslims do believe in the existence of Bei Ha'Mikqdash, but they believed Avraham (or "Ibrahim") was told by "Allah" to sacrifise Ishamel (or "Ismail") and not Yiztchak, the Muslims DO NOT sanctify it, and not only that, they do not sanctify ANYTHING in Jerusalem or Israel at all, it's all il Taqqiyah towards the retarded Israel and the West.
This is true 100% politically, but i was saying that they pray towards a pre Islamic site which was a site of avoda zara
Yes that is true, this was the center of a Pagan Pantheon in which many idols were worshipped and Muhammad "sanctified" it in order to get money from the wealthy people of Macka who owned this place and its surrounding area.
At least they stopped pilgriming in the nude as they did in pre-Islamic times.
They still do.
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Back to the main subject of this thread
Allah Vs. G-d
It's simple
Allah = Satan, and Satan loses.
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בס"ד
Back to the main subject of this thread
Allah Vs. G-d
It's simple
Allah = Satan, and Satan loses.
Are you even Jewish? If so why do you a Christian/Muslim view of Satan?
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"
"
Taoists believe in the One Tao.
Just because muslims claim they worship 'the one G-d' (which in essence is a mere theory), doesn't mean drek.
You can clearly see that islam only leads to pedosexuality, bestiality and massmurder. Their 'one G-d' is not true.
Claiming nor believing to worship 'the one G-d' obviously means drek.
You will be known by your deeds.
The 'awareness/conciousness' of muslims is obviously (mis)directed to someplace else than the 'real' one G-d, so any claim that muslims worship the 'one G-d' is a mere display of lack of understanding and taking theory over the obvious truth.
For the slow ones:
"The mind and spirit of a praying muslim goes not to
-the one G-d
but
-to someplace else; some place bad"
Is it really that hard? Even atheist quantum physics scientists come closer to G-d than a muslim.
Let me sup it up by one word, BULLS*IT, believing in one G-d isn't suggesting positive or negative deeds, it has nothing to do with moral. And let me say one more thing, Atheists are more dangerous and immoral than any Muslim.
Yes, I already was under the impression that you were a forefighter for religion without morality.
Religion without morality will lead to nothing. You might just as well believe in the one satan.
Yes,I already was under the impression that you'd never know what religion is even if it'd kill your mother. Not every religious concept has to do anything with morality. Yes, I do believe there's one Satan, like every other Jew, go worship your statue.
Substantially, this is yet another weak response. You fail to use logic reasoning in debates so, unlike Chaim, you will not make people listen to you.
I have never seen anything in any of your replies that made me consider you an honest religeous man.
Muman is very scriptural as well, but does a much better job and I don't buy any of that age arguement. Somethings can't be learned; they are there with birth.
Here's another question that you can't answer:
How do you make up that I worship statues?
And don't bother to try to refute my accusations towards you in my previous post; you can't.
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"
"Let me sup it up by one word, BULLS*IT, believing in one G-d isn't suggesting positive or negative deeds, it has nothing to do with moral. And let me say one more thing, Atheists are more dangerous and immoral than any Muslim."
When was the last time an atheist committed a suicide bombing? :::D
Ever heard of the Commies?! Atheists don't believe in moral.
I' ve seen more moral atheists than you, so this is nonsense.
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בס"ד
"
"
Taoists believe in the One Tao.
Just because muslims claim they worship 'the one G-d' (which in essence is a mere theory), doesn't mean drek.
You can clearly see that islam only leads to pedosexuality, bestiality and massmurder. Their 'one G-d' is not true.
Claiming nor believing to worship 'the one G-d' obviously means drek.
You will be known by your deeds.
The 'awareness/conciousness' of muslims is obviously (mis)directed to someplace else than the 'real' one G-d, so any claim that muslims worship the 'one G-d' is a mere display of lack of understanding and taking theory over the obvious truth.
For the slow ones:
"The mind and spirit of a praying muslim goes not to
-the one G-d
but
-to someplace else; some place bad"
Is it really that hard? Even atheist quantum physics scientists come closer to G-d than a muslim.
Let me sup it up by one word, BULLS*IT, believing in one G-d isn't suggesting positive or negative deeds, it has nothing to do with moral. And let me say one more thing, Atheists are more dangerous and immoral than any Muslim.
Yes, I already was under the impression that you were a forefighter for religion without morality.
Religion without morality will lead to nothing. You might just as well believe in the one satan.
Yes,I already was under the impression that you'd never know what religion is even if it'd kill your mother. Not every religious concept has to do anything with morality. Yes, I do believe there's one Satan, like every other Jew, go worship your statue.
Substantially, this is yet another weak response. You fail to use logic reasoning in debates so, unlike Chaim, you will not make people listen to you.
I have never seen anything in any of your replies that made me consider you an honest religeous man.
Muman is very scriptural as well, but does a much better job and I don't buy any of that age arguement. Somethings can't be learned; they are there with birth.
Here's another question that you can't answer:
How do you make up that I worship statues?
And don't bother to try to refute my accusations towards you in my previous post; you can't.
Yet another miserable response, pretending yourself to be logical is embrassing. I used clear logic --- what does belief in one G-D have to do with moralism (bad or good deeds)? Since when does G-D in a very general look has to be an authority commending people to do deeds you consider positive and moral while other don't?
None of your posts has ever even made me consider you as a thinking person, stop talking about things your undoubtly limited mind is not able to understand like rationality and honesty.
Unlike Chaim, I'm not trying to convince a fool like you - who's undoubtly uses irrational "rational" and would twist even his own words in order to make himself "win" something he considers a "debate". I don't even take your so-called arguments seriously --- I just know you'd use any demagougic tool like the questions you've posted you're nothing but a caricature and the sentence "those who cannot debate, cannot think, and cannot answer - defame standing on that red little nose of yours) .
You're just potraying yourself as a thinking, mature human being - newsflash, post after post you're posting I can see why people in Holland needed the Muslims to wake up, you live in your arrogant hypocrite way of thinking trick you until someone slams your face and puts you in your place. Don't even bother reply to this since I already know you'll keep defaming thinking it'd make you look mature, you're just a silly little zit who deserves 0 attention (same amount of attention he already gets).
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בס"ד
"
"Let me sup it up by one word, BULLS*IT, believing in one G-d isn't suggesting positive or negative deeds, it has nothing to do with moral. And let me say one more thing, Atheists are more dangerous and immoral than any Muslim."
When was the last time an atheist committed a suicide bombing? :::D
Ever heard of the Commies?! Atheists don't believe in moral.
I' ve seen more moral atheists than you, so this is nonsense.
When is your enslaved mother taking you from the kinder garden?
-
"
"
"
Taoists believe in the One Tao.
Just because muslims claim they worship 'the one G-d' (which in essence is a mere theory), doesn't mean drek.
You can clearly see that islam only leads to pedosexuality, bestiality and massmurder. Their 'one G-d' is not true.
Claiming nor believing to worship 'the one G-d' obviously means drek.
You will be known by your deeds.
The 'awareness/conciousness' of muslims is obviously (mis)directed to someplace else than the 'real' one G-d, so any claim that muslims worship the 'one G-d' is a mere display of lack of understanding and taking theory over the obvious truth.
For the slow ones:
"The mind and spirit of a praying muslim goes not to
-the one G-d
but
-to someplace else; some place bad"
Is it really that hard? Even atheist quantum physics scientists come closer to G-d than a muslim.
Let me sup it up by one word, BULLS*IT, believing in one G-d isn't suggesting positive or negative deeds, it has nothing to do with moral. And let me say one more thing, Atheists are more dangerous and immoral than any Muslim.
Yes, I already was under the impression that you were a forefighter for religion without morality.
Religion without morality will lead to nothing. You might just as well believe in the one satan.
Yes,I already was under the impression that you'd never know what religion is even if it'd kill your mother. Not every religious concept has to do anything with morality. Yes, I do believe there's one Satan, like every other Jew, go worship your statue.
Substantially, this is yet another weak response. You fail to use logic reasoning in debates so, unlike Chaim, you will not make people listen to you.
I have never seen anything in any of your replies that made me consider you an honest religeous man.
Muman is very scriptural as well, but does a much better job and I don't buy any of that age arguement. Somethings can't be learned; they are there with birth.
Here's another question that you can't answer:
How do you make up that I worship statues?
And don't bother to try to refute my accusations towards you in my previous post; you can't.
Yet another miserable response, pretending yourself to be logical is embrassing. I used clear logic --- what does belief in one G-D have to do with moralism (bad or good deeds)? Since when does G-D in a very general look has to be an authority commending people to do deeds you consider positive and moral while other don't?
None of your posts has ever even made me consider you as a thinking person, stop talking about things your undoubtly limited mind is not able to understand like rationality and honesty.
Unlike Chaim, I'm not trying to convince a fool like you - who's undoubtly uses irrational "rational" and would twist even his own words in order to make himself "win" something he considers a "debate". I don't even take your so-called arguments seriously --- I just know you'd use any demagougic tool like the questions you've posted you're nothing but a caricature and the sentence "those who cannot debate, cannot think, and cannot answer - defame standing on that red little nose of yours) .
You're just potraying yourself as a thinking, mature human being - newsflash, post after post you're posting I can see why people in Holland needed the Muslims to wake up, you live in your arrogant hypocrite way of thinking trick you until someone slams your face and puts you in your place. Don't even bother reply to this since I already know you'll keep defaming thinking it'd make you look mature, you're just a silly little zit who deserves 0 attention (same amount of attention he already gets).
You are simply to blind to see that most people consider you a clown.
You can only speak brave on a forum and undoubtedly will lack any real guts in real life.
Youre a real commie; no reasoning whatsoever. Good job son.
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בס"ד
You're doing my job in ridiculing you better than me. I can really imagine the reason you joined JTF --- let me guess, it wasn't because of big bravery but rather a cry for help. May the Muslims eating the bones of such a disgusing retarded (National) Socialist piece of filth like you. Like them, you only do and do not feel nor think.
-
"
"
"Let me sup it up by one word, BULLS*IT, believing in one G-d isn't suggesting positive or negative deeds, it has nothing to do with moral. And let me say one more thing, Atheists are more dangerous and immoral than any Muslim."
When was the last time an atheist committed a suicide bombing? :::D
Ever heard of the Commies?! Atheists don't believe in moral.
I' ve seen more moral atheists than you, so this is nonsense.
When is your enslaved mother taking you from the kinder garden?
Oh you want to talk about mothers...
Well, let's not start talking about yours; she raised a little louis farakhan.
You learned nothing from Chaims answer. It simply isn't in you.
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"
You're doing my job in ridiculing you better than me. I can really imagine the reason you joined JTF --- let me guess, it wasn't because of big bravery but rather a cry for help. May the Muslims eating the bones of such a disgusing retarded (National) Socialist piece of filth like you. Like them, you only do and do not feel nor think.
Keep speaking bravely on the forum little toad. You need it to feed your delusions.
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בס"ד
"
"
"Let me sup it up by one word, BULLS*IT, believing in one G-d isn't suggesting positive or negative deeds, it has nothing to do with moral. And let me say one more thing, Atheists are more dangerous and immoral than any Muslim."
When was the last time an atheist committed a suicide bombing? :::D
Ever heard of the Commies?! Atheists don't believe in moral.
I' ve seen more moral atheists than you, so this is nonsense.
When is your enslaved mother taking you from the kinder garden?
Oh you want to talk about mothers...
Well, let's not start talking about yours; she raised a little louis farakhan.
You learned nothing from Chaims answer. It simply isn't in you.
What a little kid, starts a defaming "battle", then talks about maturity, then talks about rationality - and then compares me to a Commie and Farakhan. Huh! at least my kids would be white (not that I really care about skin color), unlike yours, Dhimmi.
Sometimes I wonder if the Muslims haven't wiped out all the adults out of the Holland (if you really live there and you're not just an idiot who worships another culture and pretends to be a nationalist or whatever). give me a break. I'm done with talking to you.
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בס"ד
"
You're doing my job in ridiculing you better than me. I can really imagine the reason you joined JTF --- let me guess, it wasn't because of big bravery but rather a cry for help. May the Muslims eating the bones of such a disgusing retarded (National) Socialist piece of filth like you. Like them, you only do and do not feel nor think.
Keep speaking bravely on the forum little toad. You need it to feed your delusions.
Let's see you getting 5km close to the Jude, punk.
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בס"ד
"
Taoists believe in the One Tao.
Just because muslims claim they worship 'the one G-d' (which in essence is a mere theory), doesn't mean drek.
You can clearly see that islam only leads to pedosexuality, bestiality and massmurder. Their 'one G-d' is not true.
Claiming nor believing to worship 'the one G-d' obviously means drek.
You will be known by your deeds.
The 'awareness/conciousness' of muslims is obviously (mis)directed to someplace else than the 'real' one G-d, so any claim that muslims worship the 'one G-d' is a mere display of lack of understanding and taking theory over the obvious truth.
For the slow ones:
"The mind and spirit of a praying muslim goes not to
-the one G-d
but
-to someplace else; some place bad"
Is it really that hard? Even atheist quantum physics scientists come closer to G-d than a muslim.
Let me sup it up by one word, BULLS*IT, believing in one G-d isn't suggesting positive or negative deeds, it has nothing to do with moral. And let me say one more thing, Atheists are more dangerous and immoral than any Muslim.
Yes, I already was under the impression that you were a forefighter for religion without morality.
Religion without morality will lead to nothing. You might just as well believe in the one satan.
Yes,I already was under the impression that you'd never know what religion is even if it'd kill your mother. Not every religious concept has to do anything with morality. Yes, I do believe there's one Satan, like every other Jew, go worship your statue.
בס''ד
רון מה זה? אתה מעליב את האם שלו כי הוא לא מסכים איתך?
והוא לא עובד פסלים. הוא לא מאמין בנצרות.
רון, אתה שוב מפר את ההסכם שיש לנו.
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בס"ד
חוץ מלהאשים אותי בכל בעיה אין לך מה לעשות? הוא מתחיל לתקוף אותי כבר מההתחלה, בצורות הרבה יותר מעליבות. למה תמיד אני אשם בתנועה הזו?
אתה צודק. אני שוב מפר. עזבתי. עזוב, תסתדר אתה עם הזבל התת-אנושי שיש לך בפורום האנגלי.
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"
You're doing my job in ridiculing you better than me. I can really imagine the reason you joined JTF --- let me guess, it wasn't because of big bravery but rather a cry for help. May the Muslims eating the bones of such a disgusing retarded (National) Socialist piece of filth like you. Like them, you only do and do not feel nor think.
You should read the rules for radicals some more or let someone else write your answers.
Yours arent working.
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בס"ד
חוץ מלהאשים אותי בכל בעיה אין לך מה לעשות? הוא מתחיל לתקוף אותי כבר מההתחלה, בצורות הרבה יותר מעליבות. למה תמיד אני אשם בתנועה הזו?
בס''ד
כי אתה אחראי ל90% מהריבים שיש לנו בפורום האנגלי.
הוא לא העליב אותך. אתה התחלת איתו בלי שום סיבה. הוא רק הביע דעה אחרת.
אני לא מאמין שאתה כותב דברים כל כך מכוערים. מה שהוא כותב זה רק תגובה לקללות המגעילות שלך.
אני מתבייש כשאני רואה את הקללות והאיומים.
ולידיעתך, הוא דוקא אדם מוסרי וטוב.
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בס''ד
Bio-electric, I must again apologize to you for this latest outburst.
You are a wonderful, righteous and courageous man, and I have the greatest respect and admiration for you. I am so embarrassed by all of this. Please forgive me!
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בס"ד
Back to the main subject of this thread
Allah Vs. G-d
It's simple
Allah = Satan, and Satan loses.
Are you even Jewish? If so why do you a Christian/Muslim view of Satan?
Yeah, I'm Jewish are you even Jewish? And who the hell are you to question? Act like a pri*k and I'm going to call you on it.
Why a Christian view of Satan? Must be because I was born and raised in the good old U S A, cultural views of things rub off on you after a life time.
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בס"ד
Back to the main subject of this thread
Allah Vs. G-d
It's simple
Allah = Satan, and Satan loses.
Are you even Jewish? If so why do you a Christian/Muslim view of Satan?
Yeah, I'm Jewish are you even Jewish? And who the hell are you to question? Act like a pri*k and I'm going to call you on it.
Why a Christian view of Satan? Must be because I was born and raised in the good old U S A, cultural views of things rub off on you after a life time.
New Yorker,
You know that Jews don't believe in Satan like the Christians, don't you? We believe that Satan is a angel of Hashem, who is only doing his job in testing the Free Will of the Jewish people... I don't know why so many Jews accept the idea of the xtian devil... Do some study on the nature of Satan, the holy prosecuting angel, the yetzer hara, and the molech hameis {angel of death}.... They are all the same... But there is no such thing as the devil...
PS: In essence Satan = Hashem is true, because Satan is only carrying out the will of Hashem... And Hashem never loses... Once Moshiach comes and the entire world choses good over evil and knows the One true G-d, only then will evil be utterly destroyed.
PPS: I also hope you are not saying Assimilation is a good thing.... Living in America has greatly harmed the Jewish people spiritually.
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בס"ד
Back to the main subject of this thread
Allah Vs. G-d
It's simple
Allah = Satan, and Satan loses.
Are you even Jewish? If so why do you a Christian/Muslim view of Satan?
Yeah, I'm Jewish are you even Jewish? And who the hell are you to question? Act like a pri*k and I'm going to call you on it.
Why a Christian view of Satan? Must be because I was born and raised in the good old U S A, cultural views of things rub off on you after a life time.
New Yorker,
You know that Jews don't believe in Satan like the Christians, don't you? We believe that Satan is a angel of Hashem, who is only doing his job in testing the Free Will of the Jewish people... I don't know why so many Jews accept the idea of the xtian devil... Do some study on the nature of Satan, the holy prosecuting angel, the yetzer hara, and the molech hameis {angel of death}.... They are all the same... But there is no such thing as the devil...
PS: In essence Satan = Hashem is true, because Satan is only carrying out the will of Hashem... And Hashem never loses...
And in all the quibbling about semantics, the spirit of my post was completely lost.
Point is,
Allah is not G-d. That's it.
Allah is nothing, a fictitious false deity, a moon G-d modified for monotheism, for a false "religion", more a death cult than a "religion", a warped primitive ignorant childish plagiarism of Judaism and Christianity. Their Allah leads them to nothing but evil acts, therefore their Allah is evil
But we can spend the rest of the thread discussing my use of the term "Satan" to make the same point if you'd all prefer, I was trying to save on typing and Allah = Satan seemed to be the most efficent way of getting that all across in a pithy way.
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הוא לא העליב אותך. אתה התחלת איתו בלי שום סיבה. הוא רק הביע דעה אחרת.
בכבוד
תכלס , חיים , הוא כן התחיל עם רון , הוא אמר לרון שהוא תחת הרושם שרון נלחם בשורה הקדמית עבור דתות ללא מוסר
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One point for clarification with our Jewish members:
I realize and accept that Judaism does not consider the devil to be an independently-acting evil being and is merely the prosecutor of G-d, but at the same time, I should point out that no Christian actually believes that satan is on a par with Hashem in power and influence--yes, we believe he has free will and has chosen the yetzer hara, but he only has the power that G-d allows him to have (a la Job). Yes, we believe that he does tempt and attack people, but that we have free will to resist him.
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brennan fan - i understand you feel like you were backed to a corner here and feel you should explain your christian principles here , but this forum is of a jewish movement and , christianity (or any other religion besides judaism) should not be spoken of here for it will allow missionery based messages in the future , + belive me you dont wanne hear what most jews really think about christianity , cause infact , the very basis and core of christianity is somthing a true jewish beliver cannot accept
about what you saying ,christianity does view satan as if the "nemesis" , the evil one ,the rebel one, the one who have powers and rule armies of demons who he wants to conquer heaven with ... so in a way ,christianity view him ,even if not "directly" ( or perheps it does , look at your second Corinthians 4:4) , another g,o,d ...some christians view him just as the persians viewed ahiraman
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It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
Saying their monotheism was "ripped off from Judaism" is obviously true. But you have admitted that they do believe in monotheism. They subsumed all those various pagan beliefs and worship and conquered the globe and spread Islam, a rip-off Monotheism, but monotheism nonetheless. No one was giving muhammad credit, chas ve shalom. Only pointing out the fact that their belief is monotheistic even if based on a madman's rantings...
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בס"ד
It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
Theologically, they are, since they're both one G-D who created the universe, the idea of divinity is the same, or let's just sum it up by - both Judaism and Islam are Monotheistic, and that's what he meant, the difference is known (the difference between Torah and Islam), the fact that its name and theological background roots deeply in Pagan religions doesn't matter here.
even theologically they dont have same idea, Muslims technically are pagans for whom worshipping towards the direction of the black rock is compulsory. From study of ancient Arab religions, we can conclude that Al-Lah is a pagan moon G-d.
HZ,
Are you aware that Jews are required to pray facing Eastward toward the Beit HaMikdash/Temple mount? I dont think that there is anything particularly wrong with praying facing toward something.... I think this too is stolen from Judaism...
i was not aware of this. so Jews living in the East have to pray towards West (direction of Temple mount) ? and this is compulsory?
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"
Taoists believe in the One Tao.
Just because muslims claim they worship 'the one G-d' (which in essence is a mere theory), doesn't mean drek.
You can clearly see that islam only leads to pedosexuality, bestiality and massmurder. Their 'one G-d' is not true.
Claiming nor believing to worship 'the one G-d' obviously means drek.
You will be known by your deeds.
The 'awareness/conciousness' of muslims is obviously (mis)directed to someplace else than the 'real' one G-d, so any claim that muslims worship the 'one G-d' is a mere display of lack of understanding and taking theory over the obvious truth.
For the slow ones:
"The mind and spirit of a praying muslim goes not to
-the one G-d
but
-to someplace else; some place bad"
Is it really that hard? Even atheist quantum physics scientists come closer to G-d than a muslim.
Let me sup it up by one word, BULLS*IT, believing in one G-d isn't suggesting positive or negative deeds, it has nothing to do with moral. And let me say one more thing, Atheists are more dangerous and immoral than any Muslim.
Yes, I already was under the impression that you were a forefighter for religion without morality.
Religion without morality will lead to nothing. You might just as well believe in the one satan.
But that's not what was said here. He was saying that the issue being discussed, both in this thread and by the Rambam which was quoted here, is about the Theological BELIEF of the Muslims, is it monotheistic or not, so can they claim Allah is the one God the same as ours (not based on actions, based on "description")? The Rambam said in this respect the Muslims were straight or correct in their belief (about God), that they successfully mimick Judaic monotheism. That does NOT mean that their religion is correct (chas veshalom), since it is obviously lunacy written by an imposter, but more importantly, it does NOT mean that Muslims behave properly. Rambam does not say that Muslims behave in a righteous way. He is only speaking about their thought-process in their belief - That is the point Ron Ben Michael is making with his comment here, as I understand it. He is not saying actions are irrelevant to religious practice/belief because Rambam would never say such anti-Jewish nonsense and neither would Ron Ben Michael I am sure.
On the contrary Rambam points out many times the Muslim treachery and abuse committed against the Jewish people. It's not relevant to this discussion of uniqueness of God.
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I tried to sum up elegantly the two main opinion in this forum regarding this subject. And also to clear out why in any case essentially since we are all agreeing on the fact that:
The Quran is not the word of G-d,
in reality it doesn't really matter if one thinks that Allah is G-d or not.
Well said.
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בס"ד
It doesn't bother me that Maimonides concluded that Allah and Hashem are technically the same G-d. I personally disagree, because all of the attributes of Allah came from Molech and Sin and other satanic pagan "deities" of the Fertile Crescent, and the monotheism of Allah was simply ripped-off from Judaism, but who am I to tell people what to believe?
Theologically, they are, since they're both one G-D who created the universe, the idea of divinity is the same, or let's just sum it up by - both Judaism and Islam are Monotheistic, and that's what he meant, the difference is known (the difference between Torah and Islam), the fact that its name and theological background roots deeply in Pagan religions doesn't matter here.
even theologically they dont have same idea, Muslims technically are pagans for whom worshipping towards the direction of the black rock is compulsory. From study of ancient Arab religions, we can conclude that Al-Lah is a pagan moon G-d.
HZ,
Are you aware that Jews are required to pray facing Eastward toward the Beit HaMikdash/Temple mount? I dont think that there is anything particularly wrong with praying facing toward something.... I think this too is stolen from Judaism...
i was not aware of this. so Jews living in the East have to pray towards West (direction of Temple mount) ? and this is compulsory?
I would not say compulsary, but it is the custom, and every Jew respects the minhag/custom of the Jewish community. You would not be executed if you prayed in the wrong direction... But my place where I pray, in my yard, is facing eastward...
Let me find you mention of this custom:
Here are the 'laws' of prayer from Yeshivat Har Etzion:
http://vbm-torah.org/archive/tefila/67-26tefila.htm
Shiur #26: The Laws of the Shemoneh Esrei (1)
Rav David Brofsky
Direction of Prayer:
The Gemara (Berakhot 30a) teaches:
"Our Rabbis taught: A blind man or one who cannot tell the cardinal points should direct his heart towards his Father in Heaven, as it says, 'And they pray unto the Lord.'
If one is standing outside of Israel, he should turn mentally (yechaven libo) towards Eretz Yisrael, as it says, 'And pray unto Thee towards their land' (I Melakhim 8:48). If he stands in Eretz Yisrael he should turn mentally towards Yerushalayim, as it says, 'And they pray unto the Lord toward the city which Thou hast chosen' (ibid. 44). If he is standing in Yerushalayim he should turn mentally towards the Beit Ha-mikdash, as it says, 'If they pray toward this house' (II Divrei Ha-yamim 6:26). If he is standing in the Beit Ha-mikdash, he should turn mentally towards the Holy of Holies, as it says, 'If they pray toward this place' (I Melakhim 8:35). If he was standing in the Holy of Holies he should turn mentally towards the Beit Ha-Kaporet. If he was standing behind the Beit Ha-Kaporet he should imagine himself to be in front of the Kaporet. Consequently, if he is in the east he should turn his face to the west; if in the west he should turn his face to the east; if in the south he should turn his face to the north; if in the north he should turn his face to the south. In this way all Israel will be turning their hearts towards one place…"
This Gemara implies that according to all opinions one should pray towards the Beit Ha-mikdash.
However, the Gemara (Bava Batra 25b) elsewhere brings a debate regarding this issue.
"R. Yishmael also held that the Shekhina is in all places… R. Sheshet also held that the Shekhina is in all places, because [when desiring to pray] he used to say to his attendant: Set me facing any way except the east. And this was not because the Shekhina is not there, but because the Minim prescribe turning to the east. R. Abbahu, however, said that the Shekhina is in the west… R. Yitzchak said: He who desires to become wise should turn to the south [when praying], and he who desires to become rich should turn to the north. The symbol [by which to remember this] is that the table [in the Tabernacle] was to the north of the altar and the candlestick to the south. R. Yehoshua ben Levi, however, said that he should always turn to the south, because through obtaining wisdom he will obtain wealth, as it says, 'Length of days are in her [wisdom's] right hand, in her left hand are riches and honor.' But was it not R. Yehoshua ben Levi who said that the Shekhina is in the west? — [He means that] one should turn partly. R. Chanina said to R. Ashi: Those like you who live to the north of Eretz Yisrael should turn to the south…"
This Gemara presents four opinions. According to R. Yishmael and R. Sheshet, one may pray in any direction (although preferably not east), as the Shekhina is found in all directions. R. Yitzchak, on the other hand, believes that one may pray towards the north or south, depending on one's desire for wealth or wisdom. According to R. Abbahu, one should face west, as the Shekhina is in the west, and R. Yehoshua ben Levi adds that one may turn partly towards the south. Finally, R. Chanina maintains that one who lives to the north of Israel should turn south while praying.
Tosafot (Berakhot 30a and Bava Batra 25a) and the Rosh (Berakhot 4:19) assume that the Amoraim in Bava Batra (except for R. Chanina) DISAGREE with the sugya in Massekhet Berakhot, and they rule in accordance with the Gemara in Berakhot, i.e. that one should face Yerushalayim.
The Beit Yosef (94), however, cites the Semag, as well as the Mahari Abuhav, who rule that one MAY pray facing north or south, as long as one turns one face toward the east. In other words, the two sugyot do NOT contradict each other, and while ideally one should face Yerushalayim, one may pray in a different direction and turn one's face towards Jerusalem.
Surprisingly, the Shulchan Arukh (94:1-2) rules in accordance with their view, and one who wishes to fulfill the Talmudic maxim, "He who desires to become wise should turn to the south [when praying], and he who desires to become rich should turn to the north" may do so, although the Rema acknowledges that the custom was to pray towards the east (mizrach), in the direction of Eretz Yisrael, as long as he turns his face towards the east.
To what extent should one be precise in facing Yerushalayim during prayer? A number of sources seem to indicate the one's exact direct is not crucial.
For example, the Gemara (Berakhot 30a) teaches that one standing in 'Chutz La-aretz' should direct their prayer towards Eretz Yisrael. The Gemara does not seem to require a more precise direction. Similarly, R. Chanina (Bava Batra 25a) instructs R. Ashi, "Those like you who live to the north of Eretz Yisrael should turn to the south…" Even though Bavel is north-east of Israel, he merely told them to face south. Furthermore, our version of that Gemara (Berakhot 30a) says that one should "direct one's heart (yechaven libo) towards Yerushalayim…" implying that one's intentions are critical, and not necessarily the physical direction.
Seemingly these sources support the common practice of those in the Western Diaspora to pray towards the east, regardless of their precise location. In fact, the Arukh Ha-Shulchan (94:4) notes that while Tosafot, as well as the Rosh, faced east during their prayers, the Rema, as well as the Arukh Ha-Shulchan himself, lived north-west of Eretz Yisrael. Therefore, it would seem that the correct custom would be to build a Beit Kenesset facing southeast! Or, at least those facing east should turn slightly towards the south, which is clearly against the common custom! (The Mishna Berura writes that those who are west of Jerusalem, like "in our country," should face east!)
The Arukh Ha-Shulchan then questions the ruling of the Tosafot and Rosh, and asks, how is it possible that all of the Amoraim cited in Bava Batra reject Shlomo Ha-Melekh's call (I Melakhim 8:44), "And they pray unto the LORD toward the city which Thou hast chosen, and toward the house which I have built for Thy name…." Alternatively, how is it possible that we rule in accordance with the single opinion cited in Berakhot, against all of the Amoraim cited in Bava Batra!
He concludes that the Amoraim really do not disagree, and that while one may face other direction for various reasons, one should always be inclined towards Yerushalayim. Therefore, one can understand the custom of Eastern European Jewry to build their synagogues towards the east, as it is sufficient to face in the general direction of Eretz Yisrael, and to direct one's "heart" towards Jerusalem.
Others, however, seem to insist that one actually physically, and some even insist precisely, face Yerushalayim. Firstly, Tosafot insist that the Gemara in Berakhot should not read "turn one's heart," as one is required to actually turn one's face towards Yerushalayim. Secondly, the Ma'adanei Yom Tov (Rosh, Berakhot 4:6), who questions why R. Chanina told R. Ashi to face south while praying, and not southwest, explains that R. Chanina was instructing them not ONLY to face west, as they would have assumed, but also slightly south, towards Yerushalayim. In fact, the sixteenth century Rav Mordechi Yaffe, author of the Levush (and well educated in math, philosophy and engineering), insists that in Eastern Europe one should face east during prayer (see Mishna Berura 94:11). (Incidentally, calculating the precise direction to Jerusalem is quite complicated, depending on whether one uses the "great circle" or "rhumb line" [a loxodromic curve].)
The Acharonim cite a number of practical differences between these opinions. For example, should one who started the Shemoneh Esrei in a different direction move one's legs in order to turn towards Jerusalem? Similarly, if an entire congregation if facing away from Jerusalem, in one permitted to turn in a different direction, in order to face the proper direction? The Mishna Berura (95:10), for example, rules that if one mistakenly started to pray facing the incorrect direction, one should continue, and "turn one's face" towards Jerusalem.
Often, one may find one's self in a synagogue in which the aron kodesh faces away from Jerusalem. The Mishna Berura (10), as well as the Arukh Ha-Shulchan and others, rules that one should NOT turn one's back to the aron, even at the expense of praying away from Jerusalem. In fact, the Arukh Ha-Shulchan (94:5) writes that even those to the south of the aron kodesh facing east shouldn't face somewhat south, as by doing so they would be turning their backs, even slightly, away from the aron. The Peri Megadim, however, in his Mishbetzot Zahav, disagrees, claiming that only those standing directly next to the aron itself should avoid turning their backs to the aron.
Incidentally, the Yeshivat Har Etzion Beit Midrash, which faces due north, is 38.5 degrees north of Jerusalem. In other words, one who wishes to face Jerusalem precisely must turn slightly to the right while praying. Rav Amital ruled in accordance with the Arukh Ha-Shulchan, that the tzibbur should face the aron ha-kodesh (see http://www.vbm-torah.org/archive/halak57/11east.doc for a fuller discussion).
This problem also arises at the Kotel Ha-maaravi, which is located slightly south of the Makom ha-Mikdash. One who wishes to face the Mikdash precisely should turn slightly left, towards the central part of the Temple Mount.
Finally, one who is traveling on a plane should, seemingly, also try to face Jerusalem. Therefore, when flying TOWARDS Israel, one should face the front of the plane, while when flying FROM Israel, one should face the rear. One who is unable to determine which direction to face, or who unable to pray in his direction of choice, should direct one's heart towards his Father in heaven.
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You guys, this thread has been going on for six pages. And in all honesty, I don't see the point of discussing what Allah is or is not. This is not getting us anywhere. Look all around you at what's going in the countries of Europe with large Muslim populations. Look at that state of the countries in the Middle East. We don't need to argue in the abstract about what Allah is or is not. All we need to do is to look at the actions of the followers of Mohammed in countries where Muslims are becoming, or where they have already become the majorities. There's plenty there to criticize right there.
So please people. Let's keep it civil. I don't want any more arguments. Otherwise, I'll have to lock this thread.
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בס''ד
Bio-electric, I must again apologize to you for this latest outburst.
You are a wonderful, righteous and courageous man, and I have the greatest respect and admiration for you. I am so embarrassed by all of this. Please forgive me!
I don't really see a need for you to apologise Chaim. You have done nothing wrong.
I have joined JTF because I recognise the truth that you speak. You are a great leader; righteous people will listen to you, others won't.
You really should not call me courageous because you do not know me. Maybe someday we will meet and then you can make a judgement.
I usually put little value in words, so apologies from people who have tried to insult me mean nothing to me. Why is it that people like Dan Ben Noah, 4international, Ulli and Arksis are such obvious wonderfull people?
Because your instincts give it a green light all the way.
I cannot be insulted by a person who switches back and forth between ramblings of grandeur, infantile ramblings like: "why me?"; who when out of reasoning says: you are not worthy, not capable to understand, calls people communists and makes unstable insults when exposed to be doing this.
This has nothing to do with age; this looks like the rules for radicals.
I cannot be insulted by ron because I know what he is. Unfortunately you do not share my view on this.
It terrifies me to see what sort of people you have to deal with.
Some forummembers will suck up to you...
Some forummembers will suck up to ron because you praise him...
I have no interest in such phonyness.
You should think about why you picked Dan Ben Noah as an administrator. It's because he is a downright wonderfull person.
I know it is hard to find good leaders suitable to continue the legacy of Rabbi Meir Kahane, because that is what JTF is and that is what you are doing.
The gentiles liked Kahane, the gentiles like Chaim, the gentiles like... Dan Ben Noah
The gentiles liked Kahane, the gentiles like Chaim, the gentiles like... Yoseph Ben Meir
The gentiles liked Kahane, the gentiles like Chaim, the gentiles like... David Ben Moshe
The gentiles liked Kahane, the gentiles like Chaim, the gentiles like... Paulette
Who do the gentiles like these people? Because it is obvious.
Why do people like Pat Condell? Because he has reasoning. Please stay picky Chaim.
No JTF forummember is going to make me "un-join" JTF. That would be absurd.
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Saying their monotheism was "ripped off from Judaism" is obviously true. But you have admitted that they do believe in monotheism. They subsumed all those various pagan beliefs and worship and conquered the globe and spread Islam, a rip-off Monotheism, but monotheism nonetheless. No one was giving muhammad credit, chas ve shalom. Only pointing out the fact that their belief is monotheistic even if based on a madman's rantings...
Of course Islam is a monotheism, it's just that the imaginary deity that they believe in is literally a combination of all of the worst of the evil pagan gds of the Fertile Crescent.
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brennan fan - i understand you feel like you were backed to a corner here and feel you should explain your christian principles here , but this forum is of a jewish movement and , christianity (or any other religion besides judaism) should not be spoken of here for it will allow missionery based messages in the future , + belive me you dont wanne hear what most jews really think about christianity , cause infact , the very basis and core of christianity is somthing a true jewish beliver cannot accept
about what you saying ,christianity does view satan as if the "nemesis" , the evil one ,the rebel one, the one who have powers and rule armies of demons who he wants to conquer heaven with ... so in a way ,christianity view him ,even if not "directly" ( or perheps it does , look at your second Corinthians 4:4) , another g,o,d ...some christians view him just as the persians viewed ahiraman
We'll just have to agree to disagree, but Christians believe that the devil is the "prince of the air" (i.e. ruler of the earth) because G-d allows him to for now, for a time, as a supreme test to all mankind. He has no real power of his own whatsoever.
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but thats the thing .... any greek who would wanne sound monotheist would have said the same about "zeus" permitting all his little sons be "g,o,ds"
for us , this looks like you belive in another deןty , an enemy of your main one , which is like i said , like the persians viewed ahiraman... what you belive is your interpretation , some christians do view it this way due to their interpretation and they have christian sources who goes by the way they understand it ,like the one i mentioned