JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Masha on January 14, 2010, 03:57:54 PM
-
I see nobody is discussing what has happened in Haiti (or I couldn't find a thread). Whay is that? Have you seen Pat Robertson's comment that they have made a pact with the Devil? Do you think they are punished for practicing voodoo?
-
By the way, I remember reading Heinrich von Kleist novel a long time ago about Haitian revolution. The described brutality and blood-thirstiness of the mutinous slaves made a very strong impression on me. This is a book to read for those who still harbor delusions about the "noble savage."
-
I see nobody is discussing what has happened in Haiti (or I couldn't find a thread). Whay is that? Have you seen Pat Robertson's comment that they have made a pact with the Devil? Do you think they are punished for practicing voodoo?
Personally I find it difficult to get worked up about the sort of situations which arise when blacks are left to their own devices.
-
I see nobody is discussing what has happened in Haiti (or I couldn't find a thread). Whay is that? Have you seen Pat Robertson's comment that they have made a pact with the Devil? Do you think they are punished for practicing voodoo?
Personally I find it difficult to get worked up about the sort of situations which arise when blacks are left to their own devices.
I am not that worked up either. I am saving my emotions for the cases when something like this hits closer to home.
-
An earthquake is a natural disaster which could affect any sismic region. It's a humanitarian tragedy. It's not a time to make comments about race, neither to speculate about possible idolatry sins among the population. Haity is not at war with Israel. All the world is threatened by an even more serious human-provoked disaster due to Iran. This thread is cruel and insensitive. For the sake of Israel and the Torah, please close and delete it. Let's pray for the victims instead!
-
An earthquake is a natural disaster which could affect any sismic region. It's a humanitarian tragedy. It's not a time to make comments about race, neither to speculate about possible idolatry sins among the population. Haity is not at war with Israel. All the world is threatened by an even more serious human-provoked disaster due to Iran. This thread is cruel and insensitive. For the sake of Israel and the Torah, please close and delete it. Let's pray for the victims instead!
I agree.
-
An earthquake is a natural disaster which could affect any sismic region. It's a humanitarian tragedy. It's not a time to make comments about race, neither to speculate about possible idolatry sins among the population. Haity is not at war with Israel. All the world is threatened by an even more serious human-provoked disaster due to Iran. This thread is cruel and insensitive. For the sake of Israel and the Torah, please close and delete it. Let's pray for the victims instead!
Those who engage in Black magic and voodoo are doing so in direct contradiction to Hashems desire that all humanity knows that Hashem is the only power. This is why it is one of the Noachide laws. I also know that everything in this world happens for a reason and suffering is caused by Hashem when the world is in need of correction. A wise Jew looks at the events which occur and tries to understand the reason behind them.
Of course nobody really knows why Hashem does what he does, but we should look for signs and learn from them...
-
I don't see the big deal about what happened in Haiti. The earthquake left this Island in in the same if not better condition than it was before. The world should be thanking Hashem for this.
-
Let's just wait and see how they treat each other (and their rescuers).
-
The situation is indeed a sad one. No one could possibly be happy to see the loss of life and suffering that is taking place. I watch the reports with mixed emotions. I would like to see the people there be more industrious and at least get rescue operations under way however true to form like most blacks they need someone to come in and do it for them. The situation there is hopeless every cent the U.S.A pours in there will end up everywhere but where it should. Its the human thing to do to render aid in a crisis and a country like America must do every thing it can to help. Like it or not its the right thing to do.
-
I don't see the big deal about what happened in Haiti. The earthquake left this Island in in the same if not better condition than it was before. The world should be thanking Hashem for this.
same condition -~50,000 people
-
Muman: voodoo is not worse than anyother forms of idol worship widely spread in other cultures. And if we are going to say that they deserved it because H" permitted it, by the same logic, we should say that the terrorism which thereatens our world has also a reason and should let everything to H" alone, and not fight terror. That would be a good point for Neturei Karta and other anti-zionists, but it's a contradiction in a forum like this.
BTW: According to most rabbinical authorities, Hinduism also qualifies as idol worship for Goyim, thus violating the Noahide Laws. But Hindus are very welcome here. What's the problem with Haiti? Their skin color?
Takebackourtemple: Let the world thank H" and pray when Har Habayt is liberated, and avoid these racist comments. We must care about saving Israel and avoid desecrating Judaism and Torah with this stuff. (especially you who are a Jew). To H", Baruch Hu, there's no black and white, there are only Jews and Noahides. (both with their respective commandments)
-
Muman: voodoo is not worse than anyother forms of idol worship widely spread in other cultures. And if we are going to say that they deserved it because H" permitted it, by the same logic, we should say that the terrorism which thereatens our world has also a reason and should let everything to H" alone, and not fight terror. That would be a good point for Neturei Karta and other anti-zionists, but it's a contradiction in a forum like this.
Takebackourtemple: Let the world thank H" and pray when Har Habayt is liberated, and avoid these racist comments. We must care about saving Israel and avoid desecrating Judaism and Torah with this stuff. (especially you who are a Jew). To H", Baruch Hu, there's no black and white, there are only Jews and Noahides. (both with their respective commandments)
I dont really agree with what you are saying here... I never said that we should do nothing and leave everything to Hashem. In the case of terrorism we are commanded to defend ourselves, through the mitzvah of 'Do not stand idle as your brother bleeds' amongst several other commands concerning protection of Jewish life against murder...
In the case of the Tsunami and Earthquake, these are acts of Hashem... Man doesn't control when these events happen, no more than we control the temperature. There is no comparing Terrorism and acts of G-d... But I also believe Terrorism is a message sent from Hashem to the Jewish people as a wake-up call...
PS: Ask yourself why Sdom was destroyed... Ask yourself why Hashem send the Mabul/Flood... Why did Hashem send the Makkos/Plagues against Egypt? If you believe in Torah you must believe that Hashem can send destruction against wicked peoples.
http://www.torah.org/features/secondlook/tsunami.html
-
Well, at least Tzvi Fishman from Arutz Sheva agrees with me:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/4#4034
Is There a Witchdoctor in the House?
Tevet 29, 5770, 15 January 10 05:36
by from "Hollywood to the Holy Land" - Tzvi Fishman
(Israelnationalnews.com) If there is still a witchdoctor in Haiti, it won't help. Earthquakes Are From Hashem. They don’t occur without rhyme or reason. Rather, they strike with pinpoint accuracy, like everything else in G-d's world.
Our prayers go out to the survivors of the devastating earthquake.
I know many readers think I’m a Chicken Little for my stressing the importance of rectifying transgressions to the Brit. Nonetheless, the generation of the Flood was wiped off the face of the globe for this very sin, Israel was exiled from its Land for being too lax in this matter, and now Haiti has experienced a ten-second burst of Divine retribution - as a warning to other lands.
Here is a newspaper report about Haiti, published a year ago, before the quake:
PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti — Dieula sits in a circle of women on the tiled floor of a dimly lit room here, discussing the sexual violence that makes HIV infection an ever-present danger for Haitian women. "The woman in Haiti doesn't have rights," she says. "Our misery increases every day."
Less than two hours by plane from Miami, Haiti has the highest number of HIV/AIDS cases in the Caribbean. Ten percent of those living with HIV in Haiti are children, and in 2005 there were an estimated 400,000 orphans, many of whose parents died of AIDS.
Traditional voodoo continues to play an important role in Haiti. Voodoo priests and priestesses are considered to be traditional healers. Catholicism is the official religion, but it is said by many that voodoo is the national religion.
Fighting Aids in Haiti has meant confronting traditional beliefs in magic and tackling a culture in which many children start having sex around the age of 12.
In the early 1980s Haitians were held responsible for the spread of the disease in the United States and other developed countries.
But Dr Marie Deschamps, co-director of the Gheskio infectious diseases clinic in the Haitian capital Port-au-Prince, says the truth was the opposite - it was foreigners who brought the disease into Haiti.
"From what we observed, in the beginning it was mostly bisexuals, foreign men who came from the United States, from Canada and from France. They would come to Haiti to meet with the bisexuals here just for money," she said
In the 20 years since then, HIV and Aids have spread through the Haitian population, both bisexual and heterosexual.
"The majority of Haitians are aware of Aids now. We use radio and TV to get our message across. The real challenge now is to get people to change their behavior. Sometimes their beliefs mean they don't want to behave differently."
The fact is that many Haitians, especially the five million who live in the countryside, believe that many illnesses, including Aids, are caused by magic rather than microbes.
Because of this magical view of life and sickness, Haitian peasants suffering from HIV or Aids are more likely to go and seek help from their local voodoo priest than from a government clinic.
Perhaps even more of a challenge for the authorities is the predominance of sexual activity at an early age in Haiti.
The average age for young people to begin sexual relations is 12, with many young boys and girls starting to have sex as early as eight years old, according to Dr Deschamps.
This, plus the fact that half of Haiti's eight million population is under 20, makes it even more urgent that the authorities' education and prevention campaigns hit home as quickly as possible. (end of report)
Unfortunately, time ran out for Haiti.
-
Anyway, these sort of stuff damages the Jewish cause. We are to defend Israel, not to make despective comments about victims of an earthqueake. 50,000 fatal victims is something not to be taken for fun!!! Let alone in a forum where the Holy Torah is often quoted!!! It could be a Hilul H", better be more careful, you all!
-
I see nobody is discussing what has happened in Haiti (or I couldn't find a thread). Whay is that? Have you seen Pat Robertson's comment that they have made a pact with the Devil? Do you think they are punished for practicing voodoo?
There is already heavy looting in Haiti.
Here is Pat Robertson's clarification:
VIRGINIA BEACH, Va., January 13, 2010 -- On today’s The 700 Club, during a segment about the devastation, suffering and humanitarian effort that is needed in Haiti, Dr. Robertson also spoke about Haiti’s history. His comments were based on the widely-discussed 1791 slave rebellion led by Boukman Dutty at Bois Caiman, where the slaves allegedly made a famous pact with the devil in exchange for victory over the French. This history, combined with the horrible state of the country, has led countless scholars and religious figures over the centuries to believe the country is cursed. Dr. Robertson never stated that the earthquake was God’s wrath. If you watch the entire video segment, Dr. Robertson’s compassion for the people of Haiti is clear. He called for prayer for them. His humanitarian arm has been working to help thousands of people in Haiti over the last year, and they are currently launching a major relief and recovery effort to help the victims of this disaster. They have sent a shipment of millions of dollars worth of medications that is now in Haiti, and their disaster team leaders are expected to arrive tomorrow and begin operations to ease the suffering.
Chris Roslan
Spokesman for CBN
-
Honestly? I just don't care.
-
Simple. They are seeing the hand of G_d in action!!
-
Haiti has received 3 billions in foreign aid from America since Bill Clinton took office. Apart from this official US govt. aid billions of more dollars were poured into Haiti by other countries and charitable organization.
-
"If you believe in Torah you must believe that Hashem can send destruction against wicked peoples."
Obviously, this is true.
However, this doesn't mean that we should think that every natural catastrophe that occurs is an act of Hashem designed to destroy wicked people or send a message to mankind.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Haiti isn't a sewer.
I'm just saying that sometimes bad things happen to good people. We shouldn't conclude that every time an earthquake, tsunami, cyclone, flood, volcanic eruption, or an epidemic of disease happens that the victims of these catastrophies are wicked or deserve to suffer and die.
Having said that, I readily admit that witnessing thousands of Moozies perish in a tsunami doesn't bother me a bit. As far as I'm concerned it's just a message for the filthy savages to bathe more often.
If a storm of meteorites were to strike Mecca, Tehran, Baghdad, Damascus, Beirut, and Cairo, and incinerate every one of it's inhabitants I'd jump for joy.
Sometimes I wonder about my own humanity.
-
I see nobody is discussing what has happened in Haiti (or I couldn't find a thread). Whay is that? Have you seen Pat Robertson's comment that they have made a pact with the Devil? Do you think they are punished for practicing voodoo?
This link has video too. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cb_haiti_earthquake
-
If a storm of meteorites were to strike Mecca, Tehran, Baghdad, Damascus, Beirut, and Cairo, and incinerate every one of it's inhabitants I'd jump for joy.
But we are at war with most of those countries in fact, even if not declared. Even though destruction would always strike some inocent one, it's normal for humans to feel relief when a danger to our existance is removed. The issue is that neither Israel nor any European or American country is at war with Haiti. It's not human to feel joy at the destrucction of others for nothing. Haiti is not a threat to us.
-
If a storm of meteorites were to strike Mecca, Tehran, Baghdad, Damascus, Beirut, and Cairo, and incinerate every one of it's inhabitants I'd jump for joy.
But we are at war with most of those countries in fact, even if not declared. Even though destruction would always strike some inocent one, it's normal for humans to feel relief when a danger to our existance is removed. The issue is that neither Israel nor any European or American country is at war with Haiti. It's not human to feel joy at the destrucction of others for nothing. Haiti is not a threat to us.
I don't share your idea because everything happens for a reason. I have this level of Bitachon where everything, good and bad, is Hashems will and everything is dealt with middah keneged middah, measure for measure. I know that I suffer because of things I have done and because of choices I have made in my life. And in my case I see that every affliction is in measure with the aveirah I do.
I also see signs in nature, which must be from Hashem, including seeing shooting stars and noticing a sizeable earthquake which occured within moments of my hearing of my fathers death last week. I also see that reward is measure for measure. The things which I have been blessed with are all given to me by Hashem, including my car and my house and my pets and my family.
I lost my father to cancer last week and have been reading many of the Jewish sources on suffering, including Lamentations/Eicha, Iyob/Story of Job, and Kohelet/Ecclesiastes. I learned that Hashem can unleash rage on the people, as he did to the Jewish people when he allowed the Second Temple to be destroyed. I learned that even Job was not entirely free of guilt, and that a righteous man is judged more harshly than a am haaretz/(man of the earth or average joe). I learned from the wisdom of Solomon the son of David that suffering is a source of wisdom because it brings one closer to G-d.
But I will agree that we should not take pleasure in seeing even our enemies, which I don't consider Haiti to be an enemy, suffering. Only the true Judge in Heaven can decide who lives and dies because he knows what is inside each human soul. We can only attempt to learn the lesson which speaks to each of us...
PS: Also remember that in every major destruction that innocent ones are killed. Remember Sdom, where there may have been some righteous people {but not ten} who were destroyed.
PPS: Interestingly enough I listened to a shuir from Rabbi Benzion Shaffier on A7 radio this morning which talks about this level of Bitachon/Trust in Hashem:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/News.aspx/1804
If you want to know if your bitachon is where it should be, there’s a very simple test. Do you go into a panic when you don’t know how you’re going to pay your next bill? Do you often think that you could have been more successful if only you’d done things differently? If your answer was “yes,” then you, like most of us, need to work on bitachon. But striking the balance between bitachon and hishtadlus is not so simple. What is my part and what is HASHEM’s? This Shmuz teaches how honest effort combined with trust in HASHEM is an unbeatable formula for success.
-
Gd has to balance both mercy and justice. The world seems to think that only mercy and love come forth from Gd, but so too does justice and retribution. Disasters happen, but is this Haiti earthquake a sign from Gd? If we believe that Gd is all-powerful and constantly in control of even the most minute details of creation, then yes it is a sign from Gd- or else Gd is not Gd.
I don't know the particulars of Haiti's history, but it's always seemed to be to be a vile and corrupt place ruled by dictators and despots. To me, saying that the Haiti earthquake wasn't Gd's doing is more or less denying that Gd is Gd.
-
Gd has to balance both mercy and justice. The world seems to think that only mercy and love come forth from Gd, but so too does justice and retribution. Disasters happen, but is this Haiti earthquake a sign from Gd? If we believe that Gd is all-powerful and constantly in control of even the most minute details of creation, then yes it is a sign from Gd- or else Gd is not Gd.
I don't know the particulars of Haiti's history, but it's always seemed to be to be a vile and corrupt place ruled by dictators and despots. To me, saying that the Haiti earthquake wasn't Gd's doing is more or less denying that Gd is Gd.
Very true, and to the point...
-
I think Raulmarrio2000 thinks I am implying that we should not send assistance. I never said this and we should do whatever we can to assist to save those who are in danger.
Our compassion and mercy must kick in in times of disaster in order to bring Hashems mercy and kindness into the world.
-
Its sad to see the death and destruction there. But honestly, they live in a country where death and destruction is a way of life. Its not 3rd world, its 5th world. Babies often dont see their first birthday. Adults are middle-aged when they are in their teens.
This is the life they live, and its reverting to this in every black country, including S. Africa.
-
The people of Haiti have to drag themselves out of the hole that they and their leaders have been digging for decades. International bailouts won't solve their long-term problems. Perhaps this is a way Gd is saying, "See here, you will wind up like this wretched country if you don't change your ways."
-
The people of Haiti have to drag themselves out of the hole that they and their leaders have been digging for decades. International bailouts won't solve their long-term problems. Perhaps this is a way Gd is saying, "See here, you will wind up like this wretched country if you don't change your ways."
Bailouts have the opposite effect; always. If you give money to countries, companies, people, etc, they focus their energy on their next bailout/welfare/assistance check, NOT on becoming self sufficient.
Its like the old saying. Give a man a fish, and you feed them for a day. Teach them to fish, and they feed themselves for a lifetime.
-
Bailouts have the opposite effect; always. If you give money to countries, companies, people, etc, they focus their energy on their next bailout/welfare/assistance check, NOT on becoming self sufficient.
Its like the old saying. Give a man a fish, and you feed them for a day. Teach them to fish, and they feed themselves for a lifetime.
And look who's leading the charge with the international Haiti welfare bailout... :o
-
every cent the U.S.A pours in there will end up everywhere but where it should.
Exactly! That's the point. People send in money to relieve their conscience, but this is just money thrown down the drain.
-
There is already heavy looting in Haiti.
The first thing I thought of, not surprisingly, was New Orleans. Another disaster that was inked to the inhabitants' bad behavior.
-
I learned from the wisdom of Solomon the son of David that suffering is a source of
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/News.aspx/1804
If you want to know if your bitachon is where it should be, there’s a very simple test. Do you go into a panic when you don’t know how you’re going to pay your next bill? Do you often think that you could have been more successful if only you’d done things differently? If your answer was “yes,” then you, like most of us, need to work on bitachon. But striking the balance between bitachon and hishtadlus is not so simple. What is my part and what is HASHEM’s? This Shmuz teaches how honest effort combined with trust in HASHEM is an unbeatable formula for success.
This is so true! I have myself discovered this wisdom as well through experience.
-
The damage to the infrastructure in Haiti was very severe. There was almost $300 worth of damage.
-
The damage to the infrastructure in Haiti was very severe. There was almost $300 worth of damage.
Ha-ha!
-
There is already heavy looting in Haiti.
The first thing I thought of, not surprisingly, was New Orleans. Another disaster that was inked to the inhabitants' bad behavior.
I was thinking that too, Haiti, and New Orleans have a voodoo culture, and both got hit hard by disasters.
I won't be surprised when San Fran-sicko gets flattened by an earthquake, they've got two things going against them, their extremely deviant culture, and a massive fault line, they are really pushing their luck.
-
If disaster strikes Iran, or Egypt, or Pakistan I would actually be sort of politely glad that they got what should be coming to them. But Haiti is a different case. This is a hell hole of primitive savages who really are incapable as a group to organize and take care for themselves. They probably would be better off living as individual tribes in the jungles, because as a country- they get the means to do more damage to themselves.
I feel sorry for them. I think they should receive some aid from the world.
-
This disaster should have struck exactly at the center of tehran or slamabad. Too bad it did not.
-
Simple. They are seeing the hand of G_d in action!!
In the words of the esteemed James Manning:
CAN I GET AN AMEN AND A BOOM SHAKA LAKA!
-
Simple. They are seeing the hand of G_d in action!!
In the words of the esteemed James Manning:
CAN I GET AN AMEN AND A BOOM SHAKA LAKA!
I love that what does boom shaka laka mean .On another note they're sending some 3500 hundred members of the 82nd Airborne to Haiti as well as 2 thousand Marines .What happens if forced to shoot a native,will they be brought up on war crimes.
-
IIRC, boom shaka laka first appeared in an old arcade game called NBA Jam in the early 90s.
-
Most of the western world countries are responding to the cry for help as a result of the tragic earthquake in Haiti they are sending money ,,medical supplies and rescue teams.
Even China is sending help.
The oil rich Muslim Arab states are giving zip.
Muslims, it must be remembered, are warring and mindless, heartless, self-serving scum - it should come as no surprise that they are not offering any form of help to the earthquakers.
dont feel too sorry for them haitians killed every last white person on that island during their revolt and then drifted into abject poverty, violence and chaos!
-
Yes, its true, these savages are already looting.
In a civilised society, people see disaster, people help out.
Savages see disaster, savages see a chance to loot.
These animals are seeing the hand of G_d.
-
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6989116.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6989116.ece)
I guess some people just have issues with the synapses between their neurons. Let's see, I am angry that help is not reaching me in a timely manner so to rectify the situation I will block the roads that lead to me. Makes perfect sense.
-
I too noticed that it took quite a while before anyone mentioned Haiti. I was wondering how long it would take before someone brought it up. Raulmarrio2000, I'm very pleased with all your remarks. Others of you who have made disparaging remarks against the victims, I'm disappointed, but can't say that I'm the least bit surprised. I wouldn't expect anything less.
I'm curious to see how Chaim is going to answer my question on Haiti this week. Several of you have already made your views clear on my question.
-
Sicking that Ireland is going to help out, and were supposed to be in a recession. How will this help Ireland? More wogs flooding into Ireland like we have with The Jungle Vermin of Nigeria.
-
I too noticed that it took quite a while before anyone mentioned Haiti. I was wondering how long it would take before someone brought it up. Raulmarrio2000, I'm very pleased with all your remarks. Others of you who have made disparaging remarks against the victims, I'm disappointed, but can't say that I'm the least bit surprised. I wouldn't expect anything less.
I'm curious to see how Chaim is going to answer my question on Haiti this week. Several of you have already made your views clear on my question.
Nobody said anything disparaging against the victims of the tragedy, at least I didn't... I simply said that this catastrophe, as all of them, are from Hashem due to the actions of the people, and our actions.
It is naive to say that things happen by coincidence or by chaos... The world is like a clock which was created by Hashem, is run by him with input from his creation man. This is not too hard to understand.
-
I too noticed that it took quite a while before anyone mentioned Haiti. I was wondering how long it would take before someone brought it up. Raulmarrio2000, I'm very pleased with all your remarks. Others of you who have made disparaging remarks against the victims, I'm disappointed, but can't say that I'm the least bit surprised. I wouldn't expect anything less.
I'm curious to see how Chaim is going to answer my question on Haiti this week. Several of you have already made your views clear on my question.
Nobody said anything disparaging against the victims of the tragedy, at least I didn't... I simply said that this catastrophe, as all of them, are from Hashem due to the actions of the people, and our actions.
It is naive to say that things happen by coincidence or by chaos... The world is like a clock which was created by Hashem, is run by him with input from his creation man. This is not too hard to understand.
It's not hard for me to understand your logic at all, yet very easy for me to disagree with it. I think it's even more naive to think that G-d did this to punish them. But I understand your thinking. There's no such thing as coincidences and chaos. I personally disagree. But hey, that's just me.
-
I see nobody is discussing what has happened in Haiti (or I couldn't find a thread). Whay is that? Have you seen Pat Robertson's comment that they have made a pact with the Devil? Do you think they are punished for practicing voodoo?
I mean, I don't buy into this mentality because Pat Robertson is no prophet...nor is anyone else on this forum...Innocent people died with the evil ones. Children suffered...So, I make no comment on whether an earthquake was the cause of evil doers in Haiti..It's a sad situation..I hope all evil is destroyed and all the righteous prosper..
-
Correct as usual.... :)
An earthquake is a natural disaster which could affect any sismic region. It's a humanitarian tragedy. It's not a time to make comments about race, neither to speculate about possible idolatry sins among the population. Haity is not at war with Israel. All the world is threatened by an even more serious human-provoked disaster due to Iran. This thread is cruel and insensitive. For the sake of Israel and the Torah, please close and delete it. Let's pray for the victims instead!
Those who engage in Black magic and voodoo are doing so in direct contradiction to Hashems desire that all humanity knows that Hashem is the only power. This is why it is one of the Noachide laws. I also know that everything in this world happens for a reason and suffering is caused by Hashem when the world is in need of correction. A wise Jew looks at the events which occur and tries to understand the reason behind them.
Of course nobody really knows why Hashem does what he does, but we should look for signs and learn from them...
-
Sicking that Ireland is going to help out, and were supposed to be in a recession. How will this help Ireland? More wogs flooding into Ireland like we have with The Jungle Vermin of Nigeria.
would it be equally sickening if another country helped ireland if it were hit by a huge natural disaster?
-
If disaster strikes Iran, or Egypt, or Pakistan I would actually be sort of politely glad that they got what should be coming to them. But Haiti is a different case. This is a hell hole of primitive savages who really are incapable as a group to organize and take care for themselves. They probably would be better off living as individual tribes in the jungles, because as a country- they get the means to do more damage to themselves.
I feel sorry for them. I think they should receive some aid from the world.
I wish a powerful earth quake strikes Iran and destroys the nuclear facilities!
-
Sicking that Ireland is going to help out, and were supposed to be in a recession. How will this help Ireland? More wogs flooding into Ireland like we have with The Jungle Vermin of Nigeria.
would it be equally sickening if another country helped ireland if it were hit by a huge natural disaster?
It makes more sense when neighbors help neighbors. The same with refugees. refugees should go into neighboring countries, not across the globe.
The really sickening thing is the hysteria around this event. There were huge earthquakes in other parts of the worls in recent history, but never did I see such a hysterical reaction. It is because the victims were not black savages. Truly, we have a religion of worshipping black people.
It is interesting to see atheists getting extremely indignant and self-righteous, and shrill when people express any doubts or dissent (not on this forum, in general). It is as if one has expressed a sacreligious thought. You see, atheists also have a sense of sacrelige, because they have a sense of the sacred. You can't be without the sacred. It's the question of what you choose to be the sacred - God or liberal values.
By the way, I am not gloating about Haitians. I just refuse to be shamed into joining the hysteria. I agree with one type of help - sending dogs to help dig up the survivors. Maybe some short term supply of food. But even for this type of help I prefer to originate from neighboring countries mostly.
-
How do you tell which part of Haitee was devastated by the earthquake and which part was not? I bet that the presidential palace will be one of the locations rebuilt first...with our money.
-
Sicking that Ireland is going to help out, and were supposed to be in a recession. How will this help Ireland? More wogs flooding into Ireland like we have with The Jungle Vermin of Nigeria.
would it be equally sickening if another country helped ireland if it were hit by a huge natural disaster?
It makes more sense when neighbors help neighbors. The same with refugees. refugees should go into neighboring countries, not across the globe.
The really sickening thing is the hysteria around this event. There were huge earthquakes in other parts of the worls in recent history, but never did I see such a hysterical reaction. It is because the victims were not black savages. Truly, we have a religion of worshipping black people.
It is interesting to see atheists getting extremely indignant and self-righteous, and shrill when people express any doubts or dissent (not on this forum, in general). It is as if one has expressed a sacreligious thought. You see, atheists also have a sense of sacrelige, because they have a sense of the sacred. You can't be without the sacred. It's the question of what you choose to be the sacred - G-d or liberal values.
By the way, I am not gloating about Haitians. I just refuse to be shamed into joining the hysteria. I agree with one type of help - sending dogs to help dig up the survivors. Maybe some short term supply of food. But even for this type of help I prefer to originate from neighboring countries mostly.
when was the last time an earthquake killed over 100,000 (and rising) people?
-
Let's just try to remember the basics: these people have families and loved ones who are dead. Were we in a similar situation, we would be as despondent and tragedy struck as they are.
-
when was the last time an earthquake killed over 100,000 (and rising) people?
Please do not accept this figure uncritically. It is almost certainly WIDELY inflated to sponge on western charities. One can no longer trust the media.
They did have pretty major earthquakes in China and Pakistan in recent years.
-
How do you tell which part of Haitee was devastated by the earthquake and which part was not? I bet that the presidential palace will be one of the locations rebuilt first...with our money.
The country really is a dump and if it wasn't for the loss of life it really could be the butt of some funny jokes. The site of all the corpses lined up in the street really paints a grim picture however. G-d may not so much be punishing Haiti but testing humanity to see how they respond to a situation like this. It's funny how this happens in one of the most undesirable places on the globe.
-
The people of Haiti are in dire need right now. I personally recommend helping the victims out by giving to a reputable charity.
-
Sicking that Ireland is going to help out, and were supposed to be in a recession. How will this help Ireland? More wogs flooding into Ireland like we have with The Jungle Vermin of Nigeria.
would it be equally sickening if another country helped ireland if it were hit by a huge natural disaster?
Oh come on, do you really believe for 1 second that any banana country would help any white nation in trouble?
-
Sicking that Ireland is going to help out, and were supposed to be in a recession. How will this help Ireland? More wogs flooding into Ireland like we have with The Jungle Vermin of Nigeria.
would it be equally sickening if another country helped ireland if it were hit by a huge natural disaster?
Oh come on, do you really believe for 1 second that any banana country would help any white nation in trouble?
yep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
-
Oh come on, do you really believe for 1 second that any banana country would help any white nation in trouble?
yep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
You're on a roll tonight.
-
The pathetic state of Haiti shouldn't be paid for by other nations, many of which are already in a deep financial crisis. The general atmosphere of Haiti is of neglect and apathy, so why should American provide international welfare for them for a long-term period of time? Voodoo teaches that life is capricious; this has been proven. Let them rot; let American money be spent to rebuild American cities and the American nation, not some nation that's been rotting for decades.
-
There was an earthquake in Hades.
Haiti is just their accent.
-
I have prayed for the people there.
Then I prayed to God to forgive me for not having more sympathy for the suffering people there.
I feel especially sad for the babies and children and any righteous people that might be there among the population. However my overall feeling has been sort of neutral, or numb about the whole thing. I feel worse about that actually. I want to feel some spark of sympathy for the victims. I really want to, but it's hard. I feel like I have a heart of stone, and this troubles me.
So all I can do is continue to pray, hoping that God will heal my cold heart and warm it up again, and that God will also help the victims of this tragedy.
-
Oh come on, do you really believe for 1 second that any banana country would help any white nation in trouble?
yep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
You're on a roll tonight.
I can't believe we turned down 1 million barrels of oil from Hugo Chavez. I'll take 1 million barrels of oil from Chavez.
-
I have prayed for the people there.
Then I prayed to G-d to forgive me for not having more sympathy for the suffering people there.
I feel especially sad for the babies and children and any righteous people that might be there among the population. However my overall feeling has been sort of neutral, or numb about the whole thing. I feel worse about that actually. I want to feel some spark of sympathy for the victims. I really want to, but it's hard. I feel like I have a heart of stone, and this troubles me.
So all I can do is continue to pray, hoping that G-d will heal my cold heart and warm it up again, and that G-d will also help the victims of this tragedy.
Interestingly I feel the same way.
-
Oh come on, do you really believe for 1 second that any banana country would help any white nation in trouble?
yep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
You're on a roll tonight.
Lots of Arab states "pledged" money. I wonder if they really followed through
-
I have prayed for the people there.
Then I prayed to G-d to forgive me for not having more sympathy for the suffering people there.
I feel especially sad for the babies and children and any righteous people that might be there among the population. However my overall feeling has been sort of neutral, or numb about the whole thing. I feel worse about that actually. I want to feel some spark of sympathy for the victims. I really want to, but it's hard. I feel like I have a heart of stone, and this troubles me.
So all I can do is continue to pray, hoping that G-d will heal my cold heart and warm it up again, and that G-d will also help the victims of this tragedy.
Interestingly I feel the same way.
G-d helps them that help themselves is the way I look at it. Haiti has been in a bad way for some time now. America has tried several times to set things right there to no avail.... It seems that money tossed at blacks here in the USA or in foreign countries never gets the intended results. Still how can we call ourselves humans if we don't at least try to stabilize the situation there. At the end of the day its America that will put most of the dollars and effort behind the relief work. This is one of the reasons I feel that G-d will never completely turn his back on the American people.
-
Oh come on, do you really believe for 1 second that any banana country would help any white nation in trouble?
yep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
You're on a roll tonight.
Don't forget that Idi Amin donated a big pile of bananas to the UK but the British failed to collect them from the runway.
-
No-one has commented on their using bodies to create road blocks to hijack the aid convoys. We ain't seen nothing yet. It's coming.
-
Haiti? Gay Tren Zich! Gay Cochen au foyon (sp?) Haiti can go to Hell! >:( I love Pat Robertson, G-d Bless him!
-
Oh come on, do you really believe for 1 second that any banana country would help any white nation in trouble?
yep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
You're on a roll tonight.
Don't forget that Idi Amin donated a big pile of bananas to the UK but the British failed to collect them from the runway.
:::D :::D :::D
-
Personally I don't have a view on whether this is all G-d's vengeance. What I do know is that for a week the media have diverted all our attention away from the fact that Iran is now one week nearer developing a nuclear weapon which we can be sure is not intended for Haiti.
-
I have prayed for the people there.
Then I prayed to G-d to forgive me for not having more sympathy for the suffering people there.
I feel especially sad for the babies and children and any righteous people that might be there among the population. However my overall feeling has been sort of neutral, or numb about the whole thing. I feel worse about that actually. I want to feel some spark of sympathy for the victims. I really want to, but it's hard. I feel like I have a heart of stone, and this troubles me.
So all I can do is continue to pray, hoping that G-d will heal my cold heart and warm it up again, and that G-d will also help the victims of this tragedy.
This type of introspection shows that you do have a heart and a conscience.
-
The people of Haiti have to drag themselves out of the hole that they and their leaders have been digging for decades. International bailouts won't solve their long-term problems. Perhaps this is a way Gd is saying, "See here, you will wind up like this wretched country if you don't change your ways."
Bailouts have the opposite effect; always. If you give money to countries, companies, people, etc, they focus their energy on their next bailout/welfare/assistance check, NOT on becoming self sufficient.
Its like the old saying. Give a man a fish, and you feed them for a day. Teach them to fish, and they feed themselves for a lifetime.
Let's get real about Aid. Everytime a black farmer in Mozambique grows a field of maize or soya for sale he finds a big US aid shipment pulling into the docks which puts him out of business. Also, the potential maize production capacity of Angola is said to be similar to that of Europe. What would happen to the maize price for US farmers if Angola, Zimbabwe and Mozambique suddenly became one huge, peaceful belt of maize production? Strange that they can't get their act together, I wonder why?
-
Sicking that Ireland is going to help out, and were supposed to be in a recession. How will this help Ireland? More wogs flooding into Ireland like we have with The Jungle Vermin of Nigeria.
would it be equally sickening if another country helped ireland if it were hit by a huge natural disaster?
Oh come on, do you really believe for 1 second that any banana country would help any white nation in trouble?
I never realized that Haiti harvests bananas.
-
The people of Haiti have to drag themselves out of the hole that they and their leaders have been digging for decades. International bailouts won't solve their long-term problems. Perhaps this is a way Gd is saying, "See here, you will wind up like this wretched country if you don't change your ways."
Bailouts have the opposite effect; always. If you give money to countries, companies, people, etc, they focus their energy on their next bailout/welfare/assistance check, NOT on becoming self sufficient.
Its like the old saying. Give a man a fish, and you feed them for a day. Teach them to fish, and they feed themselves for a lifetime.
Let's get real about Aid. Everytime a black farmer in Mozambique grows a field of maize or soya for sale he finds a big US aid shipment pulling into the docks which puts him out of business. Also, the potential maize production capacity of Angola is said to be similar to that of Europe. What would happen to the maize price for US farmers if Angola, Zimbabwe and Mozambique suddenly became one huge, peaceful belt of maize production? Strange that they can't get their act together, I wonder why?
I don't subscribe to that view. Maybe the US would set tariffs on maize imports but that all they would ever do. I think this is just an excuse used by failed chaotic nations to explain their misfortunes.
-
This earthquake was 7.0 on the richter scale. That is very powerful. Look for more of them in various places. God uses earthquakes to communicate with the spiritually deaf. There are 33 instances where God used an earthquake to get man's attention.
The earth quaked at Mt. Sinai when Moses received the 10 commandments. Ex 19;18. In Jerusalem at the Crucifixion to split the veil of the temple from top to the bottom. Matt. 27:51. He also used an earthquake at the Resurrection to roll the stone from the borrowed tomb, not to let Jesus out but to let us in. Matt 28:2. The constant trembling of the earth is God's voice speaking through nature.
I look for them to increase in intensity and magnitude too.
Those poor people in Haiti are dying like flies, it must be a horrible situation to be in, with no food or water for days and being trapped or injured under tons of concrete. Even though the US is in a financial depression, people are finding it in their hearts to give to the Red Cross, or through their church. Don't go on line and key in your credit card number, there are too many scams out there.
-
This earthquake was 7.0 on the richter scale. That is very powerful. Look for more of them in various places. G-d uses earthquakes to communicate with the spiritually deaf. There are 33 instances where G-d used an earthquake to get man's attention.
The earth quaked at Mt. Sinai when Moses received the 10 commandments. Ex 19;18. In Jerusalem at the Crucifixion to split the veil of the temple from top to the bottom. Matt. 27:51. He also used an earthquake at the Resurrection to roll the stone from the borrowed tomb, not to let Jesus out but to let us in. Matt 28:2. The constant trembling of the earth is G-d's voice speaking through nature.
I look for them to increase in intensity and magnitude too.
Those poor people in Haiti are dying like flies, it must be a horrible situation to be in, with no food or water for days and being trapped or injured under tons of concrete. Even though the US is in a financial depression, people are finding it in their hearts to give to the Red Cross, or through their church. Don't go on line and key in your credit card number, there are too many scams out there.
You realize we don't believe the NT... But that aside I think I understand what you are trying to say...
BTW, you realize that the Romans destroyed the Temple in 70 CE...
-
This earthquake was 7.0 on the richter scale. That is very powerful. Look for more of them in various places. G-d uses earthquakes to communicate with the spiritually deaf. There are 33 instances where G-d used an earthquake to get man's attention.
The earth quaked at Mt. Sinai when Moses received the 10 commandments. Ex 19;18. In Jerusalem at the Crucifixion to split the veil of the temple from top to the bottom. Matt. 27:51. He also used an earthquake at the Resurrection to roll the stone from the borrowed tomb, not to let Jesus out but to let us in. Matt 28:2. The constant trembling of the earth is G-d's voice speaking through nature.
I look for them to increase in intensity and magnitude too.
Those poor people in Haiti are dying like flies, it must be a horrible situation to be in, with no food or water for days and being trapped or injured under tons of concrete. Even though the US is in a financial depression, people are finding it in their hearts to give to the Red Cross, or through their church. Don't go on line and key in your credit card number, there are too many scams out there.
I agree that you shouldn't go online to key in your credit card number and that there are a lot of scams. But one that is legit is texting 90999 and typing in Haiti which will donate $10 to the Red Cross, not that I expect anyone on here to do so. Even though it's a legit charity, I'm sure that Chaim and 99.99% of you on here probably condemn the Red Cross. Let me know if I'm wrong.
-
This earthquake was 7.0 on the richter scale. That is very powerful. Look for more of them in various places. G-d uses earthquakes to communicate with the spiritually deaf. There are 33 instances where G-d used an earthquake to get man's attention.
The earth quaked at Mt. Sinai when Moses received the 10 commandments. Ex 19;18. In Jerusalem at the Crucifixion to split the veil of the temple from top to the bottom. Matt. 27:51. He also used an earthquake at the Resurrection to roll the stone from the borrowed tomb, not to let Jesus out but to let us in. Matt 28:2. The constant trembling of the earth is G-d's voice speaking through nature.
I look for them to increase in intensity and magnitude too.
Those poor people in Haiti are dying like flies, it must be a horrible situation to be in, with no food or water for days and being trapped or injured under tons of concrete. Even though the US is in a financial depression, people are finding it in their hearts to give to the Red Cross, or through their church. Don't go on line and key in your credit card number, there are too many scams out there.
I agree that you shouldn't go online to key in your credit card number and that there are a lot of scams. But one that is legit is texting 90999 and typing in Haiti which will donate $10 to the Red Cross, not that I expect anyone on here to do so. Even though it's a legit charity, I'm sure that Chaim and 99.99% of you on here probably condemn the Red Cross. Let me know if I'm wrong.
Whats better? Donating to people who hate you, are never satified no matter what you do and are the most ungrateful unproductive people or helping by donating to JTF that will help Jews in Judea and Samaria who's presence is why Israel isn't an Arab State.
-
hot topic.
-
Gd gives and Gd takes, but not everyone has the understanding of the world that Job did. I don't know why an earthquake flattened Haiti, but doesn't it say in the Bible that the sins of the fathers are visited upon the sons- not by Gd but by man? The ancestors of the Sodomites certainly must've been wretched people, or else the judgment of Gd wouldn't have come upon them and destroyed their city. Is Haiti any different?
I realize that an earthquake is not a magical event, and that there are fault lines and tectonic shifting involved. Immaterial because nature's laws are also Gd's laws. I don't really feel sorry for the people in Haiti but I don't feel as if they got what they deserved either. I can point out the corruption of Haiti, but what of the corruption at home in the U.S. too? Gd may one day send a more severe earthquake to flatten some portion of the U.S. I think that's one moral to take out of this story: Gd uses events like this to teach the rest of us a lesson.
All that I can say is that I hope that the people in Haiti severely repent and turn to Gd in as trustworthy fashion. Practicing voodoo certainly doesn't help.
-
Better to help the Jews on the hilltops than Haiti...and that's what the orthodox Jewish group should be doing too...
-
Well, Chaim now commented on Haiti in his Ask JTF program. Basically, he does not agree with "sentimentalists." He does not agree that we should go out of our way to help Haiti. I am not surprised by his response. I felt something similar.
-
This earthquake was 7.0 on the richter scale.
I can recall 3 earthquakes of this size in recent years. This one is estimated to have killed up to 100,000. The Turkish one (which I was in the middle of) killed 30,000. A similar one slightly later in the Far East killed 300.
Don't these figures tell us something??
-
They tell us that G_d likes even numbers?
-
Well, Chaim now commented on Haiti in his Ask JTF program. Basically, he does not agree with "sentimentalists." He does not agree that we should go out of our way to help Haiti. I am not surprised by his response. I felt something similar.
I cannot download his programme. But why not helping Haiti? Keep the money to help Jews in Yesha? Good idea but Jews should go direct to the point. I find no sense to help Jews build sttlements in Yesha just to be demolished by leftist Govts. Israelis should go direct to the point, a demostration of at least 25% of Israeli Jews demanding the inmediate destruction of al-Aqsa and liberation of Har Habayt would be more effective than settlements. Islam is itself an act of war against Israel since it claims Ishael is the chosen People. But no Israeli group has the courage to demand it destruction. When Israel or Jewish groups take care of that I may consider donating to them, As for now, I prefer to support local Jewish congregations to buy kosher food for poor communities and provide Jewish education to keep Judaism alive, and also help Gentiles in case of disasters.
-
I cannot listen to the whole programme because my internet conexion is quite slow. But why saying that Haitians are cruel and deserve no help? Why quoting the Talmud??? The Talmud warns against being merciful to cruel people, the Nazis, Ysh"W, for example. Not to feel pity for them when they are going to be executed. But what has it got to do with Haiti?
It is true that the UN has a very bad reputation of supporting Arab terror and promoting peace with them, but what's the problem with helping the desperate victims through UN? The victims are not gulty if the UN leaders are corrupt.
Haitian Blacks antisemitic? Perhaps.... but what about white Christian and Neo-Pagan supremacists who hate Jews and say they deserve Hell ( according to many Christian Churches) and extermination (according to white pagan or non-religious supremacists)? Why hating Blacks and letting off Whites?
It's obvious that countries are not judged by the same standard!!!
-
They tell us that G_d likes even numbers?
With respect, Impaler, they tell us that Haitians are very thick, Turks are fairly thick, and people from the Far East are intelligent.
-
Look. Hashem makes everything happen for a reason. I know that's hard to swallow, but emunah is a tough concept.
-
It did not a while for some black moron to accuse Israel of harvesting organs in Haiti. I guess this is well deserved!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwQM6-lLlrM
-
That ignorant retard in the video is one of the worst things i've seen on youtube and that is saying alot.
-
I am surprised at the way most users deal with the issue of Haiti, and the Black-hatred here. For those who quoted Torah and the "curse on Hamites", whether on this thread or anyother: Torah says that the curse was on K'naan, one of Ham's son. Some say it only applied to K'naan himself but not on his offsring. But, supposing K'naan descendants are also included, it would apply to Canaanites who no longer exist. Paradoxically, Cannanites were not Black. Furthermore, a curse is supposed to act from Heaven and does not allow human beings to force it to be fullfilled. There is a question about why Noah cursed K'naan while the sin had been commited by Ham. Some say that K'naan might have played an special role in that sin ( seeing Noah naked). Anyway, the Torah is clear that only K'naan received the curse (not any other son of Ham).
Original Haitians were Amerindian Tainos who were completely massacred by Spanish colonialists either directly or by new diseases to which they had no immunity. The current Haitian population is mostly of African origin. They are descendants of slaves brought by the French. Their ancestors were chased like animals in Africa, taken in ships as things. Most of them died in theirs trips, while the surviors were subjected to hard labour and even torture just for the color of their skin. At the same time of the Amerindian genocide and the slave trafficking in America, Inquisition was burning Jews to death just for being religiosly (or even ethnically) Jeiwsh.
How can a Jew or someone who claims to support Israel adhere to that kind of racial hate which was also used against the Jewish People?
How can someone be so insensitive and cruel, just after a major natural disaster, and, to make things worse, desecrate Judaism by quoting the Torah?
Hasn't anyone here realised that this hatred speech damages the Jewish cause for freedom and security?
-
BTW, Black slave trafficking and anti-Black hatred was and still is held by fundamentalist Arabs/Muslims. Arabs did more than a half of the slave trading in the past. Now Fundamentalist Muslims, the same who threaten Israel, still do clandestine slave trading of Somalies. Many Africans are sold cheaper than animals ( about USD 15 each) by Muslims, forced to covert to Islam but anyway decimated and tortured to death. Racial/Ethnic hatred is something of the cruel insensitive evil misguided gentiles. It's not the way of Jews who are called Rachamim Bene Rachamin. It's not the way of the Righteous Gentiles either.
-
Furthermore, a curse is supposed to act from Heaven and does not allow human beings to force it to be fullfilled. There is a question about why Noah cursed K'naan while the sin had been commited by Ham.
That's the main point. Even those people who cling to a certain explanation of the curse, and think it's a metaphysical reality even today, even if we grant them that point (whether true or not - in their mind it is), that doesn't change how WE are supposed to behave. So they are not accomplishing anything by citing such things except to dabble in metaphysical speculation.