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Save Western Civilization => Save Serbia => Topic started by: Boyana on January 22, 2010, 08:17:14 AM
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Bishop Irinej is new Serbian patriarch
22 January 2010 | 10:24 -> 14:40 | Source: B92, Beta, Tanjug
BELGRADE -- The Electoral Synod of the Bishops of the Serbian Orthodox Church (SPC) met today in Belgrade and elected Bishop Irinej of Niš as the new patriarch.
http://www.b92.net/eng/
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Great. I was for Anfilohije Radovic! :dance:
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They both are ecumenists, Pope's dogs! :beast:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9BJn6hCbo0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbPDRt4PagU&playnext=1&videos=7Aw3_1C7rZA&feature=mfu_in_order
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http://www.novinar.de/2010/05/14/irinej-potreban-dijalog-sa-papom.html
http://www.novinar.de/2010/09/13/patrijarh-za-pomirenje-pravoslavne-i-rimokatolicke-crkve.html
http://www.novinar.de/2010/03/24/irinej-dobrijevic-i-nemanja-je-saradjivao-sa-papom.html
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Језуита.
Jesuit.
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Aren't the Serbs Pravoslavs, like Russians?
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Aren't the Serbs Pravoslavs, like Russians?
Yes,but our Orthodox Church is under great attack from Vatican in recent years.Huge battle is ongoing inside the Church.Many priests and the people from Church hierarchy are being expelled from our Church because they refuse to bow down to Vatican.They are protesting but then they got arrested by the state police.I have to say that I believe there is going to be official division if our corrupted religious leaders continue with the path of ecumenism.
Even our president's kids went to Roman Catholic preschool and school and went to Roman Church(Roman "Church of blessed virgin Merry",International brigades 66 in Belgrade).He publicly declared on Croatian TV(during his recent visits in CRO) that his kids aren't just Serbs.
In Greece is even much more worse situation.Orthodoxy in Greece exists only in fragments.Everything is under Vatican'c control or those who are not they are divided in smaller parts because of the Vatican's influence.
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WOW!!! Man, I can't believe this! how long has it been that way? Did it start with John Paul II? Your clergymen must do somethin' about it! You must protest this Roman dictatorship.
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WOW!!! Man, I can't believe this! how long has it been that way? Did it start with John Paul II? Your clergymen must do somethin' about it! You must protest this Roman dictatorship.
There's something you have to understand: the Roman Catholic church uses political and social unrest in "boundary regions" to help spread itself. Read up on the Council of Florence-Ferrara in 1439:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Florence
Basically, the city of Constantinople was surrounded by Muslim Turks and was begging Western Europe and the Pope for help to save the city. The Pope always insisted that that could happen only if the Greek Orthodox Church united with the Roman Catholic Church. The Greek/Byzantine leaders tried to force this "union" through many times but the Orthodox Greeks never accepted it. As a result, they got no help.
Constantinople fell on May 29, 1453 to the Turks.
The situation in Greece, Bulgaria, and Romania are the worst. Serbia is a *little* better because at least a lot of people remember WWII and do not like Catholics. But still, Serbia is very weak and cannot resist much more. Russia is the strongest but even there there are new winds bringing in the spirit of ecumenism.
It's really terrible. For centuries Orthodox Christians resisted the Catholic hordes (there are many, many more cases I can list here, if you want to know) and now they are caving in.
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People will fight!
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I'm very interested to hear more about this issue. I think that this is terrible, your nation must be strong and preserve its original religion, without any Catholic influences from the Vatican, from that Pope and from his molesting cardinals...
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WOW!!! Man, I can't believe this! how long has it been that way? Did it start with John Paul II? Your clergymen must do somethin' about it! You must protest this Roman dictatorship.
John Paul II is the main responsible party for the escalation of the war in Yugoslavia. This is because he advocated at the European Community for the recognition of the collapse of Yugoslavia. When nobody recognized Croatia's independence, the pope recognize it in an irregular way. Pope's advocacy for the recognition of Croatia created pressure amongst the nations of the European Community, who were pressured by the politic of the Pope to accept the collapse of Yugoslavia. The accept of the break up of Yugoslavia resulted into bloody civil wars and genocide and ethnic of cleansing in the Serbian territories like the Republic of Serbian Krajina, Serbian Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo.
I feel free to say that the Roman popes John Paul II and the current pope are war criminals, who advocated for the disintegration of Yugoslavia. The current pope was also involved in advocacy against Yugoslavia and the Serbian nation during the 90s.
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It is forbidden by Orthodox Church laws(canon laws) to participate in non-Orthodox services and here is bishop(episkopos) Bulovic:
(http://www.novinar.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/kardinalbulovic.JPG)
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:8d5mT5ZRJdwlHM:http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3416/ekumenizam1fh5.jpg&t=1)
...and some others:
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs495.ash2/76868_454166871605_93589526605_6081696_3629342_n.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq5mE2SBsQk
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pope's dogs! This is shameful for serbia but that is the fact. people in serbia still dont know much about this, but when this come on the sun its not gonna be nice for those dogs. Jus like that happened in Cacak!
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It is not good to call bishops and the Patriarch dogs.
The Patriarch is a holy position. You can not call a person who is the patriach of your church a dog. That is not good my friends. We all know what is forbidden and what is not forbidden according to Orthodoxy. But the patriarch and other high ranking positions, those people are currently under serious attack. They are under great pressure. They have an other responsiblity, which we regular people do not have. Who knows if they are under pressure or what.
It is better to have a Patriarch than no Patriarch. As long as we confess one religion and have one church it is ok.. But the problem is that some forces which entered in the church want to create a schism within the church. That is the danger. I am against those forces. As long as we do not have a schism, it means that things can get worse.
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It is not good to call bishops and the Patriarch dogs.
The Patriarch is a holy position. You can not call a person who is the patriach of your church a dog. That is not good my friends. We all know what is forbidden and what is not forbidden according to Orthodoxy. But the patriarch and other high ranking positions, those people are currently under serious attack. They are under great pressure. They have an other responsiblity, which we regular people do not have. Who knows if they are under pressure or what.
It is better to have a Patriarch than no Patriarch. As long as we confess one religion and have one church it is ok.. But the problem is that some forces which entered in the church want to create a schism within the church. That is the danger. I am against those forces. As long as we do not have a schism, it means that things can get worse.
Excuse me, but what kind of Serbian Patriarch can make peace overtures with a Roman church that recently blessed Cardinal Stepinac, after everything he did to Serbs and Jews? That man's diaries condemn him as a hater of Orthodoxy, Protestantism, and Judaism. His priests took part in the massacres. If Pope John Paul II beatified Stepinac more than 50 years after WWII, which means the Catholic church is NOT sorry for anything, then how can the Serbian church or it's representatives have peace with that kind of an organization?
This is a "peace" constructed on deliberate oblivion of the victims of genocide. Not Nazi genocide, but Vatican-blessed and Vatican-engineered genocide.
The genocide of 1941-1945 is the best kept secret of the Vatican. That's why nobody knows about the genocide of the Serbs, it is the only "secret genocide" because it utterly incriminates the Vatican and the Pope. The Vatican works night and day to keep it forgotten.
The Inquisition and the Crusades happened centuries ago. The pedophilia against children, as horrible and widespread as it is, can be passed off as "individual actions" that the Popes didn't know about (yeah right, I bet Ratzinger is a gay pedophile too).
The genocide against the Orthodox Serbs took place less than 100 years ago and is VERY well documented with photographs and videos that were not available to show us what those beasts did in Mainz, Jerusalem, Constantinople, Spain, Russia, or any of the other places they were sacking, pillaging, torching, exterminating, etc. That is why the Vatican is dead set on not only covering this up but also demonizing the Serbs into becoming monsters.
Just google Vukovar or Srebrenica (allegedly 1,000 and 8,000 dead, respectively), places where the Serbs did war crimes or supposedly did war crimes (it's very controversial and one-sided), and then google Jadovno (40,000) and Jasenovac (600,000+). How many hits will you get for each of those terms? I just did it:
Vukovar: 5,550,000 results
Srebrenica: 2,920,000 results
Jadovno: 106,000 results
Jasenovac: 452,000 results
That means that there is between ~10-50x fewer articles of information on killing sites in which ~100x more completely innocent people were killed, and we are not talking about war zone atrocities and reprisals that involve combatants and POWs who may have committed atrocities themselves (Vukovar/Srebrenica) but rather about specifically designed extermination facilities for innocent civilians (Jadovno/Jasenovac).
For comparison, this is not about the "fog of ancient history" because if you google Auschwitz or Dachau you get this:
Auschwitz: 9,350,000 results
Dachau: 6,400,000 results
We are talking about an organized campaign to cover up the truth. If the Serbian Orthodox church hierarchy, including Patriarch Irinej, assists those Vatican beasts with the coverup of the extermination of their own people (and Jews and Roma in the same places), then they truly are Pope's dogs and deserve no respect whatsoever.
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Excuse me, but what kind of Serbian Patriarch can make peace overtures with a Roman church that recently blessed Cardinal Stepinac, after everything he did to Serbs and Jews?
Shalom friend. Of course we Serbs know very good what the Vatican did towards the Serbs. I know everything about Stepinac and the role of the Vatican in the genocide of the Serbs.
I personally do not agree with all the statements made by the current Patriarch. But we must not forgot the fact that Serbia is currently governed by a puppet regime, which is a consequence of the NATO aggression from 1999. In these circumstances people are easy to manipulate. We must bare in mind that the Patriarch is also a human and that he is under GREAT pressure. He has a very responsible position, which means that he is under extreme pressure.
We are allowed to disagree with some statement made by the Patriarch, which are politically oriented, but we must also respect his holy position. You can not call the patriarch a dog or something like that. That is not moral behavior.
So please understand my statements. I know very good that the Serbs must avoid the Vatican as much as possible, but I am just saying that insulting the patriarch is not a moral thing. I think that you will agree with me that we must respect his position. He as a person, that is an other story. Right now I am saying that we must respect his position.
As long as the Serbs have one Church it is not the end. As soon as a schism takes place, then we are in great danger.
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Sox7 it seems you are very well informed about Serbian history and issues. Are you Serbian?
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Excuse me, but what kind of Serbian Patriarch can make peace overtures with a Roman church that recently blessed Cardinal Stepinac, after everything he did to Serbs and Jews?
Shalom friend. Of course we Serbs know very good what the Vatican did towards the Serbs. I know everything about Stepinac and the role of the Vatican in the genocide of the Serbs.
I personally do not agree with all the statements made by the current Patriarch. But we must not forgot the fact that Serbia is currently governed by a puppet regime, which is a consequence of the NATO aggression from 1999. In these circumstances people are easy to manipulate. We must bare in mind that the Patriarch is also a human and that he is under GREAT pressure. He has a very responsible position, which means that he is under extreme pressure.
We are allowed to disagree with some statement made by the Patriarch, which are politically oriented, but we must also respect his holy position. You can not call the patriarch a dog or something like that. That is not moral behavior.
So please understand my statements. I know very good that the Serbs must avoid the Vatican as much as possible, but I am just saying that insulting the patriarch is not a moral thing. I think that you will agree with me that we must respect his position. He as a person, that is an other story. Right now I am saying that we must respect his position.
As long as the Serbs have one Church it is not the end. As soon as a schism takes place, then we are in great danger.
The Church is already divided.Just not formally.Formal division , in my opinion, will occur very soon.
Expelled bishop Artemije announced that he is going to make some kind of his own community and church if the Sinod continue to ban him from Diocese of Raska and Prizren.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5CdXEGwBng&feature=player_embedded
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Bolje ga je nemati nego da je ekumenisatqa! U pravu si nije pas mego zmija!
OK. he is not a dog he is a snake!
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Sox7 it seems you are very well informed about Serbian history and issues. Are you Serbian?
Mostly, yes, ~3/4. Also ~1/4 Slovenian, and a little French and Tsintsar. But American born and bred.
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Excuse me, but what kind of Serbian Patriarch can make peace overtures with a Roman church that recently blessed Cardinal Stepinac, after everything he did to Serbs and Jews?
Shalom friend. Of course we Serbs know very good what the Vatican did towards the Serbs. I know everything about Stepinac and the role of the Vatican in the genocide of the Serbs.
I personally do not agree with all the statements made by the current Patriarch. But we must not forgot the fact that Serbia is currently governed by a puppet regime, which is a consequence of the NATO aggression from 1999. In these circumstances people are easy to manipulate. We must bare in mind that the Patriarch is also a human and that he is under GREAT pressure. He has a very responsible position, which means that he is under extreme pressure.
We are allowed to disagree with some statement made by the Patriarch, which are politically oriented, but we must also respect his holy position. You can not call the patriarch a dog or something like that. That is not moral behavior.
So please understand my statements. I know very good that the Serbs must avoid the Vatican as much as possible, but I am just saying that insulting the patriarch is not a moral thing. I think that you will agree with me that we must respect his position. He as a person, that is an other story. Right now I am saying that we must respect his position.
As long as the Serbs have one Church it is not the end. As soon as a schism takes place, then we are in great danger.
The Church is already divided.Just not formally.Formal division , in my opinion, will occur very soon.
Expelled bishop Artemije announced that he is going to make some kind of his own community and church if the Sinod continue to ban him from Diocese of Raska and Prizren.
Good. At least some people will have a way of distancing themselves from Rome. My heart cries out to the Serbian people to start reading the Bible again and reading Christ's words in particular. Having a deep personal relationship with Him is far more important than any patriarch or pope or icon or liturgy.
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Good. At least some people will have a way of distancing themselves from Rome. My heart cries out to the Serbian people to start reading the Bible again and reading Christ's words in particular. Having a deep personal relationship with Him is far more important than any patriarch or pope or icon or liturgy.
;D Yes according to you and some other ''Serbs'' from this forum, Serbs should become protestants. LoL...
Right now under these hard circumstances some people want to take advantage of the situation to convert Serbs into protestants?
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Good. At least some people will have a way of distancing themselves from Rome. My heart cries out to the Serbian people to start reading the Bible again and reading Christ's words in particular. Having a deep personal relationship with Him is far more important than any patriarch or pope or icon or liturgy.
;D Yes according to you and some other ''Serbs'' from this forum, Serbs should become protestants. LoL...
Right now under these hard circumstances some people want to take advantage of the situation to convert Serbs into protestants?
Nemoj da mislis ako se cita biblija i da se pronalzi po neka sitnica koja je losa u pravoslavlju da to znaci da postaje protestant! Svi protestanti su skoro svi pod papinom sapom tako da su oni otisli u nepovrat!
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Nemoj da mislis ako se cita biblija i da se pronalzi po neka sitnica koja je losa u pravoslavlju da to znaci da postaje protestant! Svi protestanti su skoro svi pod papinom sapom tako da su oni otisli u nepovrat!
Ma da.. Sve je jasno.. Inace ne mozes ti tu davati lekcije o svetom pismu i moralu a usporediti patriarha sa zivotinjom.. Ne moze to tako.
Odluci se dali ces biti Srbin pravoslavac ili protestanta..
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Nemoj da mislis ako se cita biblija i da se pronalzi po neka sitnica koja je losa u pravoslavlju da to znaci da postaje protestant! Svi protestanti su skoro svi pod papinom sapom tako da su oni otisli u nepovrat!
Ma da.. Sve je jasno.. Inace ne mozes ti tu davati lekcije o svetom pismu i moralu a usporediti patriarha sa zivotinjom.. Ne moze to tako.
Odluci se dali ces biti Srbin pravoslavac ili protestanta..
Brate evo pitanja da li ti je drazi pop pijanica i razvtnik u npr. tvom selu ili pobozan domaci koji nece da ide kod tog popa zato sto ne postuje to sto sam propoveda i uz to dere narod (u novcanom smislu) koji ti je drazi?? Sta mislis koji od ove dvojice je drazi Bogu. Nasi svestenici ako se ovako nastavi postaju isti kao katolicki i protestantski. To sto je Irinej Patrijarh zaci on moze da menja Bogosluzenje u pravoslavnim hramovima kao mu je volja i da da se ekumenise a ja da idem na te iste liturgije i da gledam kako su se nasi udruzili sa ovima iz Svejeresi (kako Justin Popovic zvao rimokatoike). Sve sto se zna o Bogu potice iz biblije citaj te bibliju ljudi! To sto sam ga ja tako nazvo nije da bih ga unio od ljudske vrste nego da bih docarao njegovu prevtljivost i delovanje iz senke to je bilo metaforicno. Ta poredjenja imas i u bibliji ako bas hoces. On je mudar kao lisica a otrovan ko zmija a kidise ko besan pas kad zatreba! Znasi irinej je jezuita ili nesto slicno a znas li kakvi su oni?? Evo procitaj njihovu zakletvu pa C.E. neke stvari da ti budu jasne!
„Sine moj, i do sada si učio da se pretvaraš da si tobože na njihovoj strani, a zapravo nisi.
Među rimokatolicima da budeš rimokatolik i čak da budeš špijun među svojom vlastitom braćom. Učio si da ne veruješ ljudima, da se ne uzdaš u ljude; među reformatorima da budeš reformator, među hugenotima hugenot, među kalvinistima kalvinist, među protestantima da budeš protestant i stekneš njihovo poverenje.
Traži da propovedaš sa njihovih propovedaonica i da svom žestinom svoje prirode objaviš našu svetu religiju i papu; čak siđi tako nisko, da postaneš Jevrejin među Jevrejima, da bi se mogao osposobiti da skupiš sve informacije u korist tvog reda, kao veran papin vojnik. Učio si da tajno seješ seme neprijateljstva i zavisti među državama koje su u miru i huškaš ih da prolivaju krv. Uvuci ih u rat i stvaraj revolucije, građanske ratove u zajednicama, provincijama i zemljama koje su nezavisne i pune prosperiteta, koje uživaju blagoslove u kulturi, umetnosti i naukama. Budi na strani onih koji se bore u ratu i radi potajno sa svojom braćom jezuitima, koji su možda na drugoj strani i otvoreno se suprostavljaju onoj s kojom si ti povezan. Samo tako crkva može uspešno, u tim neugodnim uslovima, privesti kraju pregovore za mir... s tim da cilj opravdava sredstva.
Učio si šta je dužnost špijuna: da sakupljaš činje nice i informacije iz svih mogućih izvora. Trudi se da dobiješ poverenje porodica protestanata i jeretika svih klasa, kako trgovaca, tako i bankara, pravnika, zatim u školama i univerzitetima, parlamentima, zakonodavnim telima, sudovima i saborima. Da budeš sve za sve ljude, za papinu volju čije smo mi sluge sve do smrti.
Primio si sve instrukcije još kao novajlija, pa kao novozaređeni sveštenik i kao pomoćnik biskupa, kao ispovednik i kao sveštenik, ali se još nisi opremio svime što je potrebno, da komanduješ armijom „Lojola” u službi pape. Ti moraš da služiš u pravo vreme kao instrument i izvršitelj kazne, kao što su naredili tvoji pretpostavljeni, jer ovde niko ne može raditi ko nije osvetio svoj rad krvlju jeretika, jer bez prolivanja krvi nijedan čovek ne može biti spasen. Zato, naoružajte se za svoj posao i učinite svoje spasenje sigurnim. Ti ćeš pored svoje prethodne zakletve pokornosti svom redu i odanosti papi, ponoviti za mnom:
Ja (ime i prezime) sada u prisutnosti svemogućeg Boga, svete device Marije, svetog
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Mihajla arhanđela, svetog Jovana Krstitelja, svetih apostola, svetog Petra i svetog Pavla i svih svetaca i sakralnih hostija neba, obećavam i izjavljujem da ću, kada bude povoljna prilika, voditi nemilosrdan rat, potajno i javno, protiv svih jeretika, protestanata i liberala, kao što sam usmeren i upućen, da ću ih istrebiti sa lica zemlje i da neću poštedeti nikoga, bez obzira na starost, pol i uslove; da ću ih vešati i paliti, pustošiti, guliti kožu, daviti i pokopavati žive, parati stomake i utrobe njihovih žena i razbijati glave njihove dece o zidove, da satrem zauvek njihovu odvratnu rasu. Pošto se to ne može činiti javno, ja ću potajno upotrebljavati otrovni pehar, stisnuti konopac, čelični bodež ili olovni metak, bez obzira na čast, rang, dostojanstvo ili autoritet osobe ili osoba, ma kakvi bili njihovi uslovi života, javni ili privatni, onako kako budem u bilo koje vreme upućen od bilo kog zastupnika pape ili starešine braće po svetoj veri, po društvu jezuitskom.”
I sad ja treba takvog coveka da slusam samo zato sto on ima tu titulu koju ima a ne zasluzuje je. Mislis li da bise Justin i Velimirovic da su zivi slozili sa ovim sto on radi. Sta mislis sto je artemije proteran? Sto se Irinej nije pobunio kad je trebala da bude gej parada tesko ruganje pravoslavlju a to je bila njeova duznost i obaveza i logican postupak!! U mesto toga on ispija kafu sa Borisom Tadeicem jer su u dilu i dogovorili se da crkva ne reaguje a da je crkva reagovala parade ne bi ni bilo ! To da imas na umu kad ga budes ponovo branio. On bre javno istupa da je unijat!!
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Hehe, smesan si ti trol, Novakovicu. Od pocetka zastupas tezu da su Turci srpskog porekla nasa "braca", a ako neki Srbin ne nosi brojanicu oko ruke, taj je "stranac".
Uskoro ces se ti razotkriti, ponovo ces napisati neki antisemitski post, a onda letis odavde.
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Hehe, smesan si ti trol, Novakovicu. Od pocetka zastupas tezu da su Turci srpskog porekla nasa "braca", a ako neki Srbin ne nosi brojanicu oko ruke, taj je "stranac".
Uskoro ces se ti razotkriti, ponovo ces napisati neki antisemitski post, a onda letis odavde.
Ја то никад нисам говорио.. Извукао си ствари из реалног контекста.
Поздрав..
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Good. At least some people will have a way of distancing themselves from Rome. My heart cries out to the Serbian people to start reading the Bible again and reading Christ's words in particular. Having a deep personal relationship with Him is far more important than any patriarch or pope or icon or liturgy.
;D Yes according to you and some other ''Serbs'' from this forum, Serbs should become protestants. LoL...
Right now under these hard circumstances some people want to take advantage of the situation to convert Serbs into protestants?
All I said was that Serbs should know what their faith is about. They resisted Islamic and Catholic attempts to convert them, many times were killed because they refused, and I think they should know what Christianity is all about.
Celebrating a few holidays and slavas is not Christianity. Read what Christ said in the New Testament and you will begin to better understand what Christianity is all about.
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Good. At least some people will have a way of distancing themselves from Rome. My heart cries out to the Serbian people to start reading the Bible again and reading Christ's words in particular. Having a deep personal relationship with Him is far more important than any patriarch or pope or icon or liturgy.
;D Yes according to you and some other ''Serbs'' from this forum, Serbs should become protestants. LoL...
Right now under these hard circumstances some people want to take advantage of the situation to convert Serbs into protestants?
Nemoj da mislis ako se cita biblija i da se pronalzi po neka sitnica koja je losa u pravoslavlju da to znaci da postaje protestant! Svi protestanti su skoro svi pod papinom sapom tako da su oni otisli u nepovrat!
I grew up in a Protestant church and I am not "under the Pope's hand," I completely and utterly reject anything to do with the Catholic church.
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Nemoj da mislis ako se cita biblija i da se pronalzi po neka sitnica koja je losa u pravoslavlju da to znaci da postaje protestant! Svi protestanti su skoro svi pod papinom sapom tako da su oni otisli u nepovrat!
Ma da.. Sve je jasno.. Inace ne mozes ti tu davati lekcije o svetom pismu i moralu a usporediti patriarha sa zivotinjom.. Ne moze to tako.
Odluci se dali ces biti Srbin pravoslavac ili protestanta..
Why shouldn't a Serb attend a Protestant church. Ethnicity and religion are not the same. If you consider Muslims in Bosnia to be originally Serbs who converted to Islam, of which only a few consider themselves Serbs anymore (i.e. Selimovic and Kusturica), why do you have a problem with Protestant Serbs?
I don't consider the SOC patriarch to be an animal. I think it is wrong for him to make any relationship with the Vatican/Ratzinger, and I do not respect his position so much that I am prevented from criticizing his behavior.
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All I said was that Serbs should know what their faith is about.
You also said something about the holy liturgy, icons which is not appropriate.
All I said was that Serbs should know what their faith is about. They resisted Islamic and Catholic attempts to convert them, many times were killed because they refused, and I think they should know what Christianity is all about. Celebrating a few holidays and slavas is not Christianity. Read what Christ said in the New Testament and you will begin to better understand what Christianity is all about.
Look you do not have to teach me about Christianity in that way. Suggesting to me that icons, the holy liturgy and the patriarch are not that important, please we do not need that kind teachings. Right now the Serbian Orthodox Church is under attack. The Church is facing problems. So, many people are confused and easy to manipulate. If you want to help the Serbs, you should not preach against icon, holy liturgy and the patriarch. I agree that the Serbs in general do not go to the church. I also do not go often to the church. I admit. That is a consequence of the communist system which ruled over Serbia. The problem can be restored, if the Serbs return to the ways of their ancestors. The Serbian ancestors were Orthodox Christians, who belonged to the Serbian Orthodox Church, and not protestants.
I appreciate your concern and maybe you have good intentions. But if you want to help the Serbs, you should say to them that they must return to the way of their ancestors. Suggesting to them that icons, the holy liturgy and the patriarch are not that important, is not doing them any good.
Read what Christ said in the New Testament and you will begin to better understand what Christianity is all about.
If you would read the new testament, you would know that you can not have a relationship with Christ without the Church. Christ says in the new Testament that they who do not drink my blood and eat my flesh will not enter my Father's kingdom. If you do not fast and do not confess, you will can not have a personal relationship with Christ. Christ left instructions how to serve G-d.
The protestants do not have any of that, so you can not tell me that I can maintain a personal relationship with G-d (Christ) outside His Church. That is according to our Orthodox Christian perspective heresy, sectarian teaching. Serbs should read more the bible, but they should use the interpretation of the Orthodox Church and the Church fathers, not interpretation which are used outside the Church.
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I don't consider the SOC patriarch to be an animal.
That was not addressed to you.
Why shouldn't a Serb attend a Protestant church.
Ask a Jew why he should not go to a protestant church?
Why should not the Serbs go to a protestant church? The same reason why Serbs should not attend a Roman Catholic church, mosque or something else. The protestants are according to the Orthodox point of view in heresy. They separated them selves from the Catholics and in stead of going back to the original Christian Church, they entered in an other level of heresy.
They switched from one heresy to an other form of heresy.
If you consider Muslims in Bosnia to be originally Serbs who converted to Islam, of which only a few consider themselves Serbs anymore (i.e. Selimovic and Kusturica), why do you have a problem with Protestant Serbs?
I did not say that Serbs who convert to protestantism are not genetically Serbs.
You can change your religion and nation, but not your past. If I am aware of the fact that some Serbs were converted during the occupation by Roman Catholic Empires (Republic Venice, Hungary and Austria) and the Islamic Turkish Empire, it does not mean that I think that those convertions were good. No. It is not good to accept the religion of the occupying forces. The protestant countries (America, UK, etc) participated into the biological extermination of the Serbs, by giving green light [support] to fascist and separatist forces, which conducted crimes of genocide against the Serbian people. They did not give an example of how to behave as Christians.
I don't consider the SOC patriarch to be an animal. I think it is wrong for him to make any relationship with the Vatican/Ratzinger, and I do not respect his position so much that I am prevented from criticizing his behavior.
I already said that we must separate the Patriarch as a person and his position. The patriarch as a person is something else. I agree that he also makes mistakes, but some people want to misuse the current hard circumstances to attack the Church and Orthodoxy as a whole.
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Good. At least some people will have a way of distancing themselves from Rome. My heart cries out to the Serbian people to start reading the Bible again and reading Christ's words in particular. Having a deep personal relationship with Him is far more important than any patriarch or pope or icon or liturgy.
;D Yes according to you and some other ''Serbs'' from this forum, Serbs should become protestants. LoL...
Right now under these hard circumstances some people want to take advantage of the situation to convert Serbs into protestants?
Nemoj da mislis ako se cita biblija i da se pronalzi po neka sitnica koja je losa u pravoslavlju da to znaci da postaje protestant! Svi protestanti su skoro svi pod papinom sapom tako da su oni otisli u nepovrat!
I grew up in a Protestant church and I am not "under the Pope's hand," I completely and utterly reject anything to do with the Catholic church.
Ti nisi ali crkva verovatno jeste mozda ima po neka omanja da nije ali gro jeste!1
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All I said was that Serbs should know what their faith is about.
You also said something about the holy liturgy, icons which is not appropriate.
All I said was that Serbs should know what their faith is about. They resisted Islamic and Catholic attempts to convert them, many times were killed because they refused, and I think they should know what Christianity is all about. Celebrating a few holidays and slavas is not Christianity. Read what Christ said in the New Testament and you will begin to better understand what Christianity is all about.
Look you do not have to teach me about Christianity in that way. Suggesting to me that icons, the holy liturgy and the patriarch are not that important, please we do not need that kind teachings. Right now the Serbian Orthodox Church is under attack. The Church is facing problems. So, many people are confused and easy to manipulate. If you want to help the Serbs, you should not preach against icon, holy liturgy and the patriarch. I agree that the Serbs in general do not go to the church. I also do not go often to the church. I admit. That is a consequence of the communist system which ruled over Serbia. The problem can be restored, if the Serbs return to the ways of their ancestors. The Serbian ancestors were Orthodox Christians, who belonged to the Serbian Orthodox Church, and not protestants.
I appreciate your concern and maybe you have good intentions. But if you want to help the Serbs, you should say to them that they must return to the way of their ancestors. Suggesting to them that icons, the holy liturgy and the patriarch are not that important, is not doing them any good.
Read what Christ said in the New Testament and you will begin to better understand what Christianity is all about.
If you would read the new testament, you would know that you can not have a relationship with Christ without the Church. Christ says in the new Testament that they who do not drink my blood and eat my flesh will not enter my Father's kingdom. If you do not fast and do not confess, you will can not have a personal relationship with Christ. Christ left instructions how to serve G-d.
The protestants do not have any of that, so you can not tell me that I can maintain a personal relationship with G-d (Christ) outside His Church. That is according to our Orthodox Christian perspective heresy, sectarian teaching. Serbs should read more the bible, but they should use the interpretation of the Orthodox Church and the Church fathers, not interpretation which are used outside the Church.
Crkva nije bitna ! Hrist kaze gde se dvojica sloze u moje ime tu je crkva! U pitanju je los prevod sa grckog i hebrejskog termin koji se koristi u originalu ne pominje crkvu u bukvalnom smislu vec u smislu skupstine zajednice. A jedini Hristov tj. Boziji Hram je u Izraelu a on je srusen, Solomonov hram!!
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Ali srpska pravoslavna crkva je jedina u kojoj postoji zdravo tkivu ! Unutar nje sada besni rad izmedju unijata i pravih pravoslavaca uz Boziju pomoc pobedicemo i po ko zna koji put dici se iz pepela ,za slavu Gospodu!
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Gospodine crnitrn mali mi zbunjeno delujete..
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Covece, ti ne znas srpski, a ovde nekome solis pamet.
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Covece, ti ne znas srpski, a ovde nekome solis pamet.
Ti ne znas srpski, inace ne bi ovo rekao. Znaci ko ne zna srpski. :) ?
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Nisam ja prijatelju uopste zbunjen ja sam samo skinuo skramu sa ociju i radi nekih navika necu da branim pogresne!
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Gospodine crnitrn mali mi zbunjeno delujete..
Lol, pokusao si da izmenis post da ispadnes pismen, al' opet si se zajebo.
Samo ti srbuj iz svoje Nemacke.
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Lol, pokusao si da izmenis post da ispadnes pismen, al' opet si se zajebo.
Samo ti srbuj iz svoje Nemacke.
Lol.. Nemas nikakve dokaze ti mali.. haha..
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E to su srbska posla svadja te se oko lapsusa a sto nas dave za gusu to je sporedno, sto su nam deca zaglupila, zene razuzdane, sto je sve vise kurvanja i abortusa, muskarci kao zene i pedercici , svestenici ekumenisti sto su satanisti svuda oko nas da li vas to malo zanima!!?? :nuke:
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Kako nece da vam se zene kurvaju i tako dalje kad se ponasate kao picke...
Pogledaj da ovdje ima svakakvih jeretika kojima smetaju pravoslavni obicaji?
Kako nece to biti kada se sluzite sa jeretickim stvarima?
E moji ljudi vratite se u period Nemanjica i sve ce biti bolje...
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Lol, pokusao si da izmenis post da ispadnes pismen, al' opet si se zajebo.
Samo ti srbuj iz svoje Nemacke.
Lol.. Nemas nikakve dokaze ti mali.. haha..
Šta će mi dokazi, ja s tobom više ne vodim ozbiljne razgovore. Ti si imbecil, i tako ću te i tretirati.
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Šta će mi dokazi, ja s tobom više ne vodim ozbiljne razgovore. Ti si imbecil, i tako ću te i tretirati.
Pa opet su vam usta puna govana? Sta da vam kazem. Ovo sta vam izlazi iz vasih usta, govori vise o vama nego o meni. Ja ti kazem kad vec nemas ni za hleb, onda nastavi ovako da seres i jedi govna..
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Šta će mi dokazi, ja s tobom više ne vodim ozbiljne razgovore. Ti si imbecil, i tako ću te i tretirati.
Pa opet su vam usta puna govana? Sta da vam kazem. Ovo sta vam izlazi iz vasih usta, govori vise o vama nego o meni. Ja ti kazem kad vec nemas ni za hleb, onda nastavi ovako da seres i jedi govna..
Hvala sto dokazujes moju tvrdnju da si neozbiljni imbecil. Iz Nemacke.
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Vase tvrdnje vise govore o vama nego o meni. Uzivajte! :)
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Vase tvrdnje vise govore o vame nego o meni. Uzivajte! :)
:::D
Cigani pravilnije govore.
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Lako se baviti sa tudjim neznacajnim sitnicama.. Ali nema od toga koristi.
Bolje vam je da brinete o sebi. Previse se baviti sa drugim ljudima je karakteristicno za izgubljene osobe.
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Nije ni cudo sto smo razlupani i sto nas zapad unistava vi ste kao deca!
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Lako se baviti sa tudjim neznacajnim sitnicama.. Ali nema od toga koristi.
Bolje vam je da brinete o sebi. Previse se baviti sa drugim ljudima je karakteristicno za izgubljene osobe.
Bezi bre imbecilu licemerni, sad mi persiras, a malopre mi kazes da jedem govna.
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Bezi bre imbecilu licemerni, sad mi persiras, a malopre mi kazes da jedem govna.
Pa iz sazaljenja. Sami ste krivi sto su vam usta puna govana. To je vas izbor.
Ja vam samo kazem prijatno! :)
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1. Sto se desava ono sto sam nabrojao? Zato sto mi treba da brinemo o nasoj deci a ne Eu, Tv i beisiterke, po delima se covek poznaje a ne po recima a ti si se uVatio neceg ko pijan plota.
2.I pored svih dokaza ti branis Irineja! Ajde odgovori sto majke ti ? On treba da bude smenjen a ne branjen.
Da li znas da ispred patrijasije ,do skoro, svakog dana je postojao miran i molitveni protest protiv ekumenizma a to nisi mogo da vidis na tv!! A onda je irinej podneo prijavu protiv njih i dosla je policija i kao najgore kriminalce oterala pohapsila ... A znas li ko je policajac bio jedan od glavnih u toj akciji!? Onaj peder sto je rekao "Moj si Beograd dosao da lomis ". Pa sad ti malo uljuci mozak!!
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Ja samo kazem da nije moralno usporediti Patrijarha sa zivotinjom.
Ja ne branim njegov stav o ekumenizmu i tako dalje. Ja imam pravo da kazem da se ne slazem da neko patrijarha naziva dzukelom.
A cundo je da osoba koja smatra patrijarha za pseto ovdje drzi neke lekcije o postenju, moralu i vjeri. Pa ne moze to tako.
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1. Sto se desava ono sto sam nabrojao? Zato sto mi treba da brinemo o nasoj deci a ne Eu, Tv i beisiterke, po delima se covek poznaje a ne po recima a ti si se uVatio neceg ko pijan plota.
2.I pored svih dokaza ti branis Irineja! Ajde odgovori sto majke ti ? On treba da bude smenjen a ne branjen.
Da li znas da ispred patrijasije ,do skoro, svakog dana je postojao miran i molitveni protest protiv ekumenizma a to nisi mogo da vidis na tv!! A onda je irinej podneo prijavu protiv njih i dosla je policija i kao najgore kriminalce oterala pohapsila ... A znas li ko je policajac bio jedan od glavnih u toj akciji!? Onaj peder sto je rekao "Moj si Beograd dosao da lomis ". Pa sad ti malo uljuci mozak!!
Razgovaras sa slepim fanatikom, imbecilom koji je uz sve to i antisemita. Dzabe umaras prste trazeci ozbiljne odgovore od njega.
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Moj ujak je monah , bio je u sopocanima, proterali su ga kao i skoro celo bratstvo, nesto posle posto su proterali irineja(to rasko-prizrenska eparhija)!! Znas li zasto? Zato sto nisu hteli da sprovode novotarije u sluzbi koje su nalozili Anastasije Jeftic i Irinej Gavrilovic!!
:nono:
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Ok. Ali ako budemo energicno napadali Crkvu onda ce vjernici da gube povjerenje.
Onda se pojavljivaju vukovi u jagnjecoj kozi i preobracaju narod u druge struje.
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Ja samo kazem da nije moralno usporediti Patrijarha sa zivotinjom.
Ja ne branim njegov stan o ekumenizmu i tako dalje. Ja imam pravo da kazem da se ne slazem da neko patrijarha naziva dzukelom.
A cundo je da osoba koja smatra patrijarha za pseto ovdje drzi neke lekcije o postenju, moralu i vjeri. Pa ne moze to tako.
Znas li sta je Isus rekao jednom prilikom? " Ne prosipajte bisere pred svinje" Znas li ko su svinje u ovom tekstu?
Misli se na ljude nemoralne, otvdoglave, ogrezle u grehu, kojima je savest otupila i dosli su do momenta hule na Duha zivoga....
Ti izgleda nisi procitao onaj moj dugacak post od pre neki dan. Ja nisam njega vredjao kao coveka niti ga dehunaizovao samo sam upotrebio metaforu!! Znaci kad nekom kazes da je brz ko zec ti si ga uvredio??
Ja pritom nisam govorio o tituli Patrijaraha niti imam protiv toga nesto naprotiv, vec o irineju kao coveku koji je dobio funkciju koje nije je dostojan!!!!!!!!!
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Ok. Ali ako budemo energicno napadali Crkvu onda C.E. vjernici da gube povjerenje.
Onda se pojavljivaju vukovi u jagnjecoj kozi i preobracaju narod u druge struje.
Tacno ali ja je napadam samo po pitanju ekumenizma jer sve drugo sto je lose u Spc njie ni kao crno ispd nokta u odnosu na ekumenizam!
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Ja samo kazem da nije moralno usporediti Patrijarha sa zivotinjom.
Ja ne branim njegov stan o ekumenizmu i tako dalje. Ja imam pravo da kazem da se ne slazem da neko patrijarha naziva dzukelom.
A cundo je da osoba koja smatra patrijarha za pseto ovdje drzi neke lekcije o postenju, moralu i vjeri. Pa ne moze to tako.
Patrijarh Irinej nije zivotinja.Daleko od toga.
On i Atanasije Jevtic su masoni.To znaju svi u crkvenoj hijerarhiji.
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You also said something about the holy liturgy, icons which is not appropriate.
Are we in dogma class or what? I am opposed to a liturgy that people cannot understand. If you can understand Old Church Slavonic, then OK, but when I sat in on that liturgy I did not understand a good amount of what was said. That, in fact, defeats the original spirit of Orthodoxy. Cyril and Methodius were sent to the Slavs to give them Christianity in their own language. The fact that Greece retains Byzantine Greek in their liturgy, we retain Old Church Slavonic in ours, etc. defeats that purpose. Language is not holy. The liturgy can be in Kazakh for all I care, just so long as people understand it.
As for icons, I oppose them as objects of veneration. If they are just artistic objects that point people to spiritual truths, then I am OK with that, but not with kissing, bowing, etc. Btw, I am not the first to think that. The Orthodox themselves had a vicious controversy over icons (i.e. Iconoclasm), so the jury was for many times out within Orthodoxy itself as to whether it is OK to venerate icons.
Look you do not have to teach me about Christianity in that way. Suggesting to me that icons, the holy liturgy and the patriarch are not that important, please we do not need that kind teachings. Right now the Serbian Orthodox Church is under attack. The Church is facing problems. So, many people are confused and easy to manipulate. If you want to help the Serbs, you should not preach against icon, holy liturgy and the patriarch. I agree that the Serbs in general do not go to the church. I also do not go often to the church. I admit. That is a consequence of the communist system which ruled over Serbia. The problem can be restored, if the Serbs return to the ways of their ancestors. The Serbian ancestors were Orthodox Christians, who belonged to the Serbian Orthodox Church, and not protestants.
Do the icons, liturgy, "going to church" or patriarch show up ANYWHERE in the New Testament? I see it no where. Not in Jesus' words, not in Paul's writings. It is an addition, a tradition that developed in the centuries after Christ.
The Church is facing problems for many reasons. One is the effect of Communism. Another is the fact that the people rarely find out what Christianity really is from the Church. So it's just rituals but they don't get the deeper meaning the rituals were meant to symbolize.
My great grandmother was an Orthodox Christian who attended church once a week, but she read large portions of the Bible every day. This was back in the 1800s, when not that many women who lived in rural Serbia were literate, much less read the Bible daily. She knew what Christianity was about. Do you?
I appreciate your concern and maybe you have good intentions. But if you want to help the Serbs, you should say to them that they must return to the way of their ancestors. Suggesting to them that icons, the holy liturgy and the patriarch are not that important, is not doing them any good.
Why? Ancestors of the Serbs were polytheistic pagans too. Should we return to that? We should turn to the truth, wherever that might lie and whatever it might be. I'm not saying that the Protestant movement has a monopoly on the truth. But I am saying that Orthodoxy has gone way off and needs a lot of reform.
If you would read the new testament, you would know that you can not have a relationship with Christ without the Church. Christ says in the new Testament that they who do not drink my blood and eat my flesh will not enter my Father's kingdom. If you do not fast and do not confess, you will can not have a personal relationship with Christ. Christ left instructions how to serve G-d.
The protestants do not have any of that, so you can not tell me that I can maintain a personal relationship with G-d (Christ) outside His Church. That is according to our Orthodox Christian perspective heresy, sectarian teaching. Serbs should read more the bible, but they should use the interpretation of the Orthodox Church and the Church fathers, not interpretation which are used outside the Church.
Yes, you must confess known sins to Jesus, the only intercessor. Not to a priest or anyone else.
You do not have to fast to have a personal relationship with Christ.
And eating his flesh and drinking his blood can take place anywhere where there are more than one Christian individual present. Your own family can prepare bread and wine and pray and remember Christ and that is fulfilling the ordinance. You don't need any sort of singing, ceremonies, priests, etc. for that sort of thing.
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Kako nece da vam se zene kurvaju i tako dalje kad se ponasate kao picke...
Pogledaj da ovdje ima svakakvih jeretika kojima smetaju pravoslavni obicaji?
Kako nece to biti kada se sluzite sa jeretickim stvarima?
E moji ljudi vratite se u period Nemanjica i sve C.E. biti bolje...
You say that I am a heretic, yet all you do on this forum is spew insults and foul language. Where is your Christianity now?
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Ja samo kazem da nije moralno usporediti Patrijarha sa zivotinjom.
Ja ne branim njegov stan o ekumenizmu i tako dalje. Ja imam pravo da kazem da se ne slazem da neko patrijarha naziva dzukelom.
A cundo je da osoba koja smatra patrijarha za pseto ovdje drzi neke lekcije o postenju, moralu i vjeri. Pa ne moze to tako.
Patrijarh Irinej nije zivotinja.Daleko od toga.
On i Atanasije Jevtic su masoni.To znaju svi u crkvenoj hijerarhiji.
jeftic znam da je mason! Ovaj je jezuta mason ali sigurno u nekom tajnom drustvu!
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You say that I am a heretic, yet all you do on this forum is spew insults and foul language. Where is your Christianity now?
I said that I do not go often to the church and I am not a great Orthodox believer.
I am just a moderated believer. But I known basic information, so not everybody can sell everything to me.
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Ja samo kazem da nije moralno usporediti Patrijarha sa zivotinjom.
Ja ne branim njegov stan o ekumenizmu i tako dalje. Ja imam pravo da kazem da se ne slazem da neko patrijarha naziva dzukelom.
A cundo je da osoba koja smatra patrijarha za pseto ovdje drzi neke lekcije o postenju, moralu i vjeri. Pa ne moze to tako.
Patrijarh Irinej nije zivotinja.Daleko od toga.
On i Atanasije Jevtic su masoni.To znaju svi u crkvenoj hijerarhiji.
Thank you for this information. It does not surprise me. I thought Atanasije Jevtic was not so bad when I saw him speak at a program on Jadovno, but he was trying to make a distinction between the Croatian Catholic church and other Catholic churches (e.g. Italian, French, etc.). That alarmed me because it seems to deny the Pope's hand in all of the so-called Catholic church.
As for Irinej, how involved in his selection do you think Tadic & Co. were?
It seems that everything is lining up. In Russia, Alexei dies and is replaced by ecumenist Kirill. Then there's Irinej. Bartholomew in Tsarigrad is also a rabid ecumenist. I think we will see some sort of schism in our lifetimes.
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You say that I am a heretic, yet all you do on this forum is spew insults and foul language. Where is your Christianity now?
I said that I do not go often to the church and I am not a great Orthodox believer.
I am just a moderated believer. But I known basic information, so not everybody can sell everything to me.
You don't know much about Christianity at any rate. You cannot be "moderate." Christianity is an all-consuming thing. You must place Christ above all other things: self, family, nation, country, career, entertainment, interests etc. and follow him. That is something rare in both the Orthodox and Protestant churches.
And you know, I hope, that you cannot "earn" your salvation.
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But I am saying that Orthodoxy has gone way off and needs a lot of reform.
That is what you have in common with the Vatican. Both of you want to reform/ change the Orthodoxy. I do not see any difference between the Vatican's attempt and your attempt. If this is your real intention, agenda, then you are conducting a crime against the Serbs.
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You don't know much about Christianity at any rate. You cannot be "moderate." Christianity is an all-consuming thing. You must place Christ above all other things: self, family, nation, country, career, entertainment, interests etc. and follow him. That is something rare in both the Orthodox and Protestant churches.
And you know, I hope, that you cannot "earn" your salvation.
Look I know enough about my religion to aviod infiltrators from outside. I can notice the difference between Orthodox teachings and heretic teachings.
But I am not a hardcore believer. I admit.
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Ljudi ajde da vidimo kako ove ekumeniste, unijate i jezuite da proteramo iz crkve pa onda da da raspravljamo koliko andjela moze da stane na vrh koplja! Svadjamo se oko marginalnih stvari a kuca (crkva) gori. Ajde da oteramo ove jeretike sto vole papu i rimokatolike(katolike koji bukvalno obozavaju papu) pa onda da se bavimo sporednim teoloskim pitanjima!
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Evo dobrog teoloskog sajta!
http://www.creation6days.com/diskusije/news.php
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Evo dobrog teoloskog sajta!
http://www.creation6days.com/diskusije/news.php
Site koji govori protiv ikona i tako dalje.. To sam čuo od ozbiljnih ljudi.
Brate prije protjeraj jeretika iz sebe, pa onda se priključi u borbu..
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http://www.novinar.de/2010/11/12/intelektualci-na-strani-artemija.html#more-16336
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But I am saying that Orthodoxy has gone way off and needs a lot of reform.
That is what you have in common with the Vatican. Both of you want to reform/ change the Orthodoxy. I do not see any difference between the Vatican's attempt and your attempt. If this is your real intention, agenda, then you are conducting a crime against the Serbs.
I have nothing in common with the Vatican. The Vatican wants you to bow before their Pope. They want to put all of Christ's power and righteousness in a fallen human being on earth. Then they want to wield that enormous power for whatever political purpose they see fit, whether that is conquering the Americas, the Crusades, WWII and Jasenovac, or something else. It is absolutely monstrous.
Protestantism does not put any people on a pedestal. We don't care about Luther or Calvin or other reformers. We have no high priest or patriarch. The relationship is directly between you and Christ (God) and with your fellow Christians (and non-Christians) around you. And because of this, everything a pastor says must be validated by the Bible. If he cannot support what he is saying with the Bible, then it doesn't hold. The Bible is the final authority on truth - not the priest or the patriarch or the pope or "tradition." Do you understand the difference?
I never said you should become this or that denomination of Protestantism. I understand that there are many problems with Protestantism itself, it is far from perfect. But I am saying the Orthodox church should reform itself from within, to examine whether this or that tradition or doctrine really makes sense or is it just accepted because "it was always this way." I pointed out that icons were very controversial within Orthodoxy itself. There are many other issues as well, e.g. how salvation happens, the meaning of baptism and eucharist, the meaning of good works, etc.
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You don't know much about Christianity at any rate. You cannot be "moderate." Christianity is an all-consuming thing. You must place Christ above all other things: self, family, nation, country, career, entertainment, interests etc. and follow him. That is something rare in both the Orthodox and Protestant churches.
And you know, I hope, that you cannot "earn" your salvation.
Look I know enough about my religion to aviod infiltrators from outside. I can notice the difference between Orthodox teachings and heretic teachings.
But I am not a hardcore believer. I admit.
What is your basis for saying something is heresy?
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Evo dobrog teoloskog sajta!
http://www.creation6days.com/diskusije/news.php
Site koji govori protiv ikona i tako dalje.. To sam čuo od ozbiljnih ljudi.
Brate prije protjeraj jeretika iz sebe, pa onda se priključi u borbu..
Udji na taj sajt i pitaj ga sta misli o ikonama pa onda pricaj! Znaci nemoj da ti drugi sole pamet idi tamo gde je logika i istina pa ce sve da ti bude jasno.Sam prouci stvari malo dublje udji u teologiju kao sto si i sam priznao samo je povrsno poznajes. Ikone su u ovom trenutku jako nebitna stvar ali si ti zbog drugacijeg misljenja po tom pitanju spreman da nekog ocrnis a da se pritom nisi ni zapitao da li si u pravu. Moj ujak je ikonopisac i radi duborez imam u kuci par njegovih ikona. Ali one su mi opomena i secanje na pobozne ljude - svece. Ali im se ne molim jer drvo ne moze da pomogne, vec samo Bog Svemoguci kojim se molim!
Ali opet kazem to nije centralno pitanje ono je manje bitno sada moramo da seborimo protiv ekumenizma!
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Evo dobrog teoloskog sajta!
http://www.creation6days.com/diskusije/news.php
Site koji govori protiv ikona i tako dalje.. To sam čuo od ozbiljnih ljudi.
Brate prije protjeraj jeretika iz sebe, pa onda se priključi u borbu..
Udji na taj sajt i pitaj ga sta misli o ikonama pa onda pricaj! Znaci nemoj da ti drugi sole pamet idi tamo gde je logika i istina pa C.E. sve da ti bude jasno.Sam prouci stvari malo dublje udji u teologiju kao sto si i sam priznao samo je povrsno poznajes. Ikone su u ovom trenutku jako nebitna stvar ali si ti zbog drugacijeg misljenja po tom pitanju spreman da nekog ocrnis a da se pritom nisi ni zapitao da li si u pravu. Moj ujak je ikonopisac i radi duborez imam u kuci par njegovih ikona. Ali one su mi opomena i secanje na pobozne ljude - svece. Ali im se ne molim jer drvo ne moze da pomogne, vec samo Bog Svemoguci kojim se molim!
Ali opet kazem to nije centralno pitanje ono je manje bitno sada moramo da seborimo protiv ekumenizma!
Ima li jos kao ti, koji drze ikone u kuci ali im se ne klanjaju?
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What is your basis for saying something is heresy?
If something is a deviation it is heresy. Heresy is considered as a great sin in Orthodoxy. Now you will say what is deviation. According to the Orthodox point of view those separations of the original way are a heresy. We all know in what century Orthodoxy was established (by the apostles of Christ) and we all know that protestantism was founded somewhere in the 15/16 century. So I am not interested in new religions which were created by men and function as a replacement of real Christianity.
I do believe that there are good and moral people amongst protestants. But I do not believe that they are following Christ according to the right way. Orthodoxy teaches us to judge people on their actions. The protestant countries organized the biological exterminations of the native population of North, South, Middle America, Africa, Australia and New Sealand. Countries and nations that obey Christ and live according to Christs rules can not participate into crimes like that.
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Ima li jos kao ti, koji drze ikone u kuci ali im se ne klanjaju?
Ako mislis da pravoslavci obozavaju ikone kao neke bogove, onda malo znas o pravoslavlju.
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yet all you do on this forum is spew insults and foul language. Where is your Christianity now?
I am not here for spewing insults etc.
Look if someone constantly insults me, then I should react to that..
You are pretty selective. You do not mention that I was provoked. :)
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yet all you do on this forum is spew insults and foul language. Where is your Christianity now?
I am not here for spewing insults etc.
Look if someone constantly insults me, then I should react to that..
You are pretty selective. You do not mention that I was provoked. :)
Christ taught us to turn the other cheek.
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Christ taught us to turn the other cheek.
Yes. But until a certain limit.
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Christ taught us to turn the other cheek.
Yes. But until a certain limit.
Okay, if you are interested in Christian theology discussions, you can contact me by private messaging.
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Okay, if you are interested in Christian theology discussions, you can contact me by
private messaging.
Nice! I like to talk about that. :)
But I am not very good informed about Orthodoxy.
I know something, but not as much as other people.
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yet all you do on this forum is spew insults and foul language. Where is your Christianity now?
I am not here for spewing insults etc.
Look if someone constantly insults me, then I should react to that..
You are pretty selective. You do not mention that I was provoked. :)
Christ taught us to turn the other cheek.
Evo jos jedne lose shvacene isusove recenice! I drago mi je da si ovo pomeno da bih rekao nesto vise!
Zamislite da ste u srbiji a da je Drugi svetski rat i pridje vam svaba i iz nekog razloga vam udari samar (ajde bas da uzmem taj primer)! Da li bi se ti okrenuo i vratio mu? Naravno da ne bi ako ti je zivot mio!
E u takvoj situaciji su bili Jevreji koje je okupirao Rim. Znaci okuacija je na delu kada se Isus pojavljuje. I on im govori da budu pokorni i poslusni okupatoru i da sacuvaju sebe a da istovremeno rade na svojoj moralnoj strani da postanu ugodni pred Bogom i sacuvaju dusu svoju. I On je dosao medju njih kao covek da bi im pokazao sta covek treba i moze da ucini, zaci dosao je da dize moralni utanak a ne fizicki protiv okupatora kako su vecina jevreja tada misli i zato su bili proterani posle ustanka. Bog je jevreje vrlo lako mogao da oslobodi od Rmiljana ali nije On je i dozvolio da ih rimljani pokore (zato sto su odstupili od njega) da bih kaznio i dozvao ih pameti. Naravno veci deo nije poslusao hrista jer je plus bio obmanut od fariseja(tadasnjih irineja i anastasija) i bivaju proterani. A da su jeveri masovno poceli da se poboljsavaju moralno, rim bi odatle otiso ko rukom odnesen!
A kada je izrael bio slobodna teokratska drzava npr. u vreme isusa navina postojali su tacno definisani zakoni koje je napiao mojsije u tori! E u takvoj drzavi se ne okrece drugi obraz tu svako odgovara za svoje postupke. Posto je samar i fizicki napad i uvreda taj bi bio izveden pred sudije i dobio bi odredjenu kaznu. Zavisno od ostecenog, mozda bi mu vratio , mozda bi platio novcanu kaznu, bicevan ... ali ovo sve sa preduslovom da je osteceni skroz nevin!
Znaci to sto isus govori odnosi se na vreme okupacije, e u takvoj smo mi sada situaciji! Pogledajte oko sebe kakav nemoral i uzas imate u srbiji. Demokratska vlast sprovodi evropu unistava nas u svakom a ponajvise u verskom i moralnom smislu. Uzeli kosovo, Bosna, hrvatska.... A sta smo bili pre samo 100g.
Mi sada moramo da radimo na nasem moralu i duhovnosti, da mi vaspitamo nasu decu kako treba, sredimo porodice pa onda da krenemo da sredimo drzavu . a tada bi nam Bog pomogao cas bi to uradili ali mi moramo da se sredimo iznutra pa da krenemo dalje. Da pocistimo nase dvoriste (individualno,porodicno i drzavno) pa onda tudje!Znaci ustanak fizicki je najlaksa stvar kad ste sklopili savez sa najacom vojnom silom(najvecom silom u svakom smislu) - Bogom.A savez mozes sklopiti ako pristanes na Njegove uslove, a uslovi su dati u Tori ili njen rezime u deset tacaka, Deset Bozijih zapovesti. Ali ne samo da pristanes vec i da ih ispunis jer dela su ta koja se gledaju!
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http://vaticanobservatory.org/
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-04/devil-named-telescope-helps-astronomers-see-through-darkness
Vatikan ima teleskop kome le ime lucifer!
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http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6109/zastavav.jpg
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Ljudi vi se samo svadjate. Jeli moguce da imamo neku diskusiju bez napada i uvredjene? Ja sam siguran da mi svi hocemo bolje za nasu zemlju i za nas narod. Ovde se samo svadjate zbog neke gluposti. Ako hocete da imate diskuciju od teologiju ili nesto van teme onda napisite privatnu poruku. Voo-yo sto si tako agresivan prema Novakovicu? Jeli nemozete fino razgovarati i sa malo vise respekta jedno prema drugom? Ovde imamo dobru priliku da izvestamo nasu historiju, sve nepravde i sve probleme sto jos imamo. Moramo da radimo zajedno i da se dobro slazemo.
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Ljudi vi se samo svadjate. Jeli moguce da imamo neku diskusiju bez napada i uvredjene? Ja sam siguran da mi svi hocemo bolje za nasu zemlju i za nas narod. Ovde se samo svadjate zbog neke gluposti. Ako hocete da imate diskuciju od teologiju ili nesto van teme onda napisite privatnu poruku. Voo-yo sto si tako agresivan prema Novakovicu? Jeli nemozete fino razgovarati i sa malo vise respekta jedno prema drugom? Ovde imamo dobru priliku da izvestamo nasu historiju, sve nepravde i sve probleme sto jos imamo. Moramo da radimo zajedno i da se dobro slazemo.
Objasnio sam vise puta svoj stav. Novakovicu, koji je ranije bio clan pod imenom "Serbian Radical Party" i koji je banovan zbog anti-jevrejskih i pro-muslimanskih stavova, nije mesto na ovom forumu. Nikada se nije izvinuo zbog toga, nije mu zao i nije promenio te stavove.
Ja njega ne prihvatam kao clana.
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Ljudi vi se samo svadjate. Jeli moguce da imamo neku diskusiju bez napada i uvredjene? Ja sam siguran da mi svi hocemo bolje za nasu zemlju i za nas narod. Ovde se samo svadjate zbog neke gluposti. Ako hocete da imate diskuciju od teologiju ili nesto van teme onda napisite privatnu poruku. Voo-yo sto si tako agresivan prema Novakovicu? Jeli nemozete fino razgovarati i sa malo vise respekta jedno prema drugom? Ovde imamo dobru priliku da izvestamo nasu historiju, sve nepravde i sve probleme sto jos imamo. Moramo da radimo zajedno i da se dobro slazemo.
HVALA BOGU DA SI SE OBRATIO JA SAM PROBAO DA IM PREDOCIM NEKE STVARI ALI SU TVRDOGLAVI!
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Regardless of what we think of Orthodoxy vs. Protestantism, I think we can all agree that ecumenism with the Vatican is a bad idea. If not for spiritual/theological reasons, then for historical/political ones. The Pope is an incompatibility for other forms of Christianity, and the Vatican has demonstrated more that once in its long history that it will stoop to anything (covering up pedophilia and executing genocide) to "solve problems." The question, then, is how the people (who are mostly opposed to ecumenism) can resist Irinej's and Jevtic's program.
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Ljudi vi se samo svadjate. Jeli moguce da imamo neku diskusiju bez napada i uvredjene? Ja sam siguran da mi svi hocemo bolje za nasu zemlju i za nas narod. Ovde se samo svadjate zbog neke gluposti. Ako hocete da imate diskuciju od teologiju ili nesto van teme onda napisite privatnu poruku. Voo-yo sto si tako agresivan prema Novakovicu? Jeli nemozete fino razgovarati i sa malo vise respekta jedno prema drugom? Ovde imamo dobru priliku da izvestamo nasu historiju, sve nepravde i sve probleme sto jos imamo. Moramo da radimo zajedno i da se dobro slazemo.
Objasnio sam vise puta svoj stav. Novakovicu, koji je ranije bio clan pod imenom "Serbian Radical Party" i koji je banovan zbog anti-jevrejskih i pro-muslimanskih stavova, nije mesto na ovom forumu. Nikada se nije izvinuo zbog toga, nije mu zao i nije promenio te stavove.
Ja njega ne prihvatam kao clana.
Kako si ti siguran da je Novakovic bivsi clan SRS?
Slicni stavovi prema poturcenim Srbima nisu garant bilo cega.
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Kako si ti siguran da je Novakovic bivsi clan SRS?
Slicni stavovi prema poturcenim Srbima nisu garant bilo cega.
Ja nisam bivsi clan SRS. Nikad nisam bio clan politicke partije. Ne znam sta taj covjek ima prema meni? Dali ovdje SRS clanovi nisu pozeljni? Sta je problem?
Inace SRS nema pro-muslimanske stavove. To sto smatraju da su Muslimani srpskog porijekla je nesto drugo. Ne znam sto mene optuzuje da sam promusliman ili antijevrej? Boze sacuvaj!
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Yes Serbstvo that is the true, but orthodox serbs cant be a friends with Ustasa, Wahhabis. ecumenists ... I donot care if they have serbian blood! Yes croat can be my brother and Bosnian to, if they are not papist. Maybe you wonder how it is possible that muslim be a papist, trust me they are in Bosnia, but biggest part are not aware of that!! Palestinians are papist to! Shqiptars to, just a few years ago in the center of Pristina has built a new huge Cathedral.The cathedral is visiting by Muslims Shqiptars in great numbers, majorityyoung people (in Kosmet is just a few percent of catholic Shqiptars)! One journalist ask a girl on the street why they are doing that if they are a Muslims, she said that dont know, she just doing what does doing a rest of they youth and her friends! That is the evidence that they are papist and they are not aware of that fact, majority of course.
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I specified that a person of Serbian blood who LOVES HIS COUNTRY is a Serb. The fact that Croats, Bosnian Muslims and a large number of Albanians have Serbian blood running through their veins is irrelevant because they hate our guts. Now we are faced with a more recent artificial nation of Montenegrins who are Orthodox as we are. So it's clear that religion is not the root cause of our divisions. Not to mention that in Serbia, there are plenty of people who are Serbian in name only, but hate everything Serbian with a passion. I am willing to bet that they number in the tens of thousands.
Yes that is the truth! I agree with you!
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Ljudi vi se samo svadjate. Jeli moguce da imamo neku diskusiju bez napada i uvredjene? Ja sam siguran da mi svi hocemo bolje za nasu zemlju i za nas narod. Ovde se samo svadjate zbog neke gluposti. Ako hocete da imate diskuciju od teologiju ili nesto van teme onda napisite privatnu poruku. Voo-yo sto si tako agresivan prema Novakovicu? Jeli nemozete fino razgovarati i sa malo vise respekta jedno prema drugom? Ovde imamo dobru priliku da izvestamo nasu historiju, sve nepravde i sve probleme sto jos imamo. Moramo da radimo zajedno i da se dobro slazemo.
Objasnio sam vise puta svoj stav. Novakovicu, koji je ranije bio clan pod imenom "Serbian Radical Party" i koji je banovan zbog anti-jevrejskih i pro-muslimanskih stavova, nije mesto na ovom forumu. Nikada se nije izvinuo zbog toga, nije mu zao i nije promenio te stavove.
Ja njega ne prihvatam kao clana.
Kako si ti siguran da je Novakovic bivsi clan SRS?
Slicni stavovi prema poturcenim Srbima nisu garant bilo cega.
Siguran sam, imam mejlove od njega koji to dokazuju.
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Sox7 it seems you are very well informed about Serbian history and issues. Are you Serbian?
He is not stupied, I agree. Only I do not agree with his opinion on Milan Nedic.
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http://www.jutarnji.hr/papa-u-hrvatsku-dolazi-4--lipnja--u-posjeti-ce-biti-dva-dana/904403/
Pope will prayon the grave of monster Alojzija Stepinca.
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Christ taught us to turn the other cheek.
Yes. But until a certain limit.
Okay, if you are interested in Christian theology discussions, you can contact me by private messaging.
are you seven days adventist by any chance?
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Christ taught us to turn the other cheek.
Yes. But until a certain limit.
Okay, if you are interested in Christian theology discussions, you can contact me by private messaging.
are you seven days adventist by any chance?
I am not.
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I am supporter of Serbian Radical Party and very proud of that :dance:
b92 television is leading attacks on our church...
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I am supporter of Serbian Radical Party and very proud of that
b92 television is leading attacks on our church...
For you! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jang7w916zM :dance:
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http://www.novinar.de/2010/11/17/monah-priveden-i-kaznjen-sa-10000-dinara.html#more-16365
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http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2010&mm=11&dd=27&nav_category=78&nav_id=475409
Od kad su katolici ovako darezljivi prema pravoslavnim srbima?? Od kad im je Irinej ucinio veliki poso!
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http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2010&mm=11&dd=29&nav_category=78&nav_id=475792
And this monks are Guilty because they are not ecumenist just like artenije!
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http://www.facetv.ba/face-tv/3737.html
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http://vimeo.com/17089445
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http://www.4shared.com/document/7bHxNWYf/o_artemiju.html
knjiga o arteniju!
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http://www.vimeo.com/17421927
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stop spiting on our holy church and get the hell out of this forum, find some help in the mental institution... >:(
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In this forum some fallen Serbs who left Orthodoxy are spreading anti-Serb, anti-Orthodox and anti-Russian propaganda. They are accusing the priests of the Orthodox Church of terrible things, while they have no evidence for that. This sectarian behavior which is attacking the Serbian Orthodox Church and the Orthodox religion needs to stop.
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There is no "spitting" on the Church. The facts are that current patriarch and Sinod members are traitors , Vatican's people who are producing the division in our Church by non-canonical prosecution of those who are against Roman ecumenism. There are a lot of monasteries,a lot of people in the hierarchy who are against current corrupted and fallen from Orthodoxy patriarch and Sinod members.
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I think that he is also upset because certain people attack the Serbian religion, the practise of icons etc.
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I think that he is also upset because certain people attack the Serbian religion, the practise of icons etc.
Ikone nisu deo teoloske (biblijske)dogme. Do osmog veka nije bila praksa da se bilo kakve likovne predstave postuju poljupcem, nego je to bilo zabranjeno, a sama pojava likovne predstave(u hramovima) je bila neophodna jer je stanovnistvo bilo neobrazovano i nepismeno.Kasnije, na sedmom vaseljenskom saboru, izglasano je da je ikonoborstvo jeres.
Prema tome, to je stvar ljudskog konsenzusa koji je bio promenljiv i koji je i danas tema diskusije da li treba ili ne, ali svakako nije neophodno i nije bitno za ljudsko spasenje.
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Kasnije, na sedmom vaseljenskom saboru, izglasano je da je ikonoborstvo jeres.
Evo ovdje ti kazes da nije dobro koristi ikone. U drugom topicu si rekao da ti je svejedno da li M. Petrovic propagira subotarsku teologiju ili ne. Kad spojim to sve zajedno onda mi nije cudno sto tako govoris o ikonama. Jer to se poklapa sa subotarskom propagandom, koju ti ne osudjujes. Ja licno mislim da vi koji to govorite da ste nasjeli na subotarsku propagandu.
Evo sta jedan pravoslavni svestenik kaze o ikonama. Kome ja da vjerujem ljudima koji sklapaju kompromis sa subotarima ili pravoslavnim svestenicima?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I64ODG1D528
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Kasnije, na sedmom vaseljenskom saboru, izglasano je da je ikonoborstvo jeres.
Evo ovdje ti kazes da nije dobro koristi ikone. U drugom topicu si rekao da ti je svejedno da li M. Petrovic propagira subotarsku teologiju ili ne. Kad spojim to sve zajedno onda mi nije cudno sto tako govoris o ikonama. Jer to se poklapa sa subotarskom propagandom, koju ti ne osudjujes. Ja licno mislim da vi koji to govorite da ste nasjeli na subotarsku propagandu.
Evo sta jedan pravoslavni svestenik kaze o ikonama. Kome ja da vjerujem ljudima koji sklapaju kompromis sa subotarima ili pravoslavnim svestenicima?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I64ODG1D528
Ti zovi Milana Tarota pa ga pitaj. Cini mi se da si njegova publika.
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Kasnije, na sedmom vaseljenskom saboru, izglasano je da je ikonoborstvo jeres.
Evo ovdje ti kazes da nije dobro koristi ikone. U drugom topicu si rekao da ti je svejedno da li M. Petrovic propagira subotarsku teologiju ili ne. Kad spojim to sve zajedno onda mi nije cudno sto tako govoris o ikonama. Jer to se poklapa sa subotarskom propagandom, koju ti ne osudjujes. Ja licno mislim da vi koji to govorite da ste nasjeli na subotarsku propagandu.
Evo sta jedan pravoslavni svestenik kaze o ikonama. Kome ja da vjerujem ljudima koji sklapaju kompromis sa subotarima ili pravoslavnim svestenicima?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I64ODG1D528
Haha... pobrkao si ti nesto. Ja ne osudjujem nikoga, pa ni adventiste za ono u sta veruju. Covek treba da se uzdrzava od osude drugih , jer kako sudi tako C.E. mu i biti sudjeno.
ps
Gde si procitao da sam rekao da je lose koristiti ikone? Ja to nisam rekao,ali sam naveo istorijske cinjenice koje se ticu ikonoborstva i celivanja ikona.
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Ti zovi Milana Tarota pa ga pitaj. Cini mi se da si njegova publika.
Taj Otac Joilo je tvoj zemljak.
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Covek treba da se uzdrzava od osude drugih , jer kako sudi tako C.E. mu i biti sudjeno.
Da, ali ti znas dobro da sudis pripadnicima Sinoda, kao dolje:
There is no "spitting" on the Church. The facts are that current patriarch and Sinod members are traitors , Vatican's people who are producing the division in our Church by non-canonical prosecution of those who are against Roman ecumenism.
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stop spiting on our holy church and get the hell out of this forum, find some help in the mental institution... >:(
Are you talking to me or just seems to me?
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There is no "spitting" on the Church. The facts are that current patriarch and Sinod members are traitors , Vatican's people who are producing the division in our Church by non-canonical prosecution of those who are against Roman ecumenism. There are a lot of monasteries,a lot of people in the hierarchy who are against current corrupted and fallen from Orthodoxy patriarch and Sinod members.
True only true ! Do I need draw to you people to understand situation after all this evidence!
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I think that he is also upset because certain people attack the Serbian religion, the practise of icons etc.
Ikone nisu deo teoloske (biblijske)dogme. Do osmog veka nije bila praksa da se bilo kakve likovne predstave postuju poljupcem, nego je to bilo zabranjeno, a sama pojava likovne predstave(u hramovima) je bila neophodna jer je stanovnistvo bilo neobrazovano i nepismeno.Kasnije, na sedmom vaseljenskom saboru, izglasano je da je ikonoborstvo jeres.
Prema tome, to je stvar ljudskog konsenzusa koji je bio promenljiv i koji je i danas tema diskusije da li treba ili ne, ali svakako nije neophodno i nije bitno za ljudsko spasenje.
Bravo kerber ziva istina!
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Kasnije, na sedmom vaseljenskom saboru, izglasano je da je ikonoborstvo jeres.
Evo ovdje ti kazes da nije dobro koristi ikone. U drugom topicu si rekao da ti je svejedno da li M. Petrovic propagira subotarsku teologiju ili ne. Kad spojim to sve zajedno onda mi nije cudno sto tako govoris o ikonama. Jer to se poklapa sa subotarskom propagandom, koju ti ne osudjujes. Ja licno mislim da vi koji to govorite da ste nasjeli na subotarsku propagandu.
Evo sta jedan pravoslavni svestenik kaze o ikonama. Kome ja da vjerujem ljudima koji sklapaju kompromis sa subotarima ili pravoslavnim svestenicima?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I64ODG1D528
OVaj isti svestenik u jednom drugom predavanju pljuje po jevrejima i imputiraim kako su oni zalagali da se svi drugi narodi treba ztreti sto je apsolutni nonses na koji nemam komentar tako sta drugo da se orica o njenu. Verovatno i nije ucio teologiju SPC!
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crnitrn you are a sick man, please spare us your religious teaching which do not hold true in our orthodox church, you will not convert me or any other serbian member into your church...
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Covek treba da se uzdrzava od osude drugih , jer kako sudi tako C.E. mu i biti sudjeno.
Da, ali ti znas dobro da sudis pripadnicima Sinoda, kao dolje:
There is no "spitting" on the Church. The facts are that current patriarch and Sinod members are traitors , Vatican's people who are producing the division in our Church by non-canonical prosecution of those who are against Roman ecumenism.
Njihova odgovornost pred Bogom je veca nego odgovornost drugih ljudi. Poglavarima,vladikama, C.E. se suditi po strozijim kriterijumima nego drugima, jer oni su ucitelji koji su se latili najodgovornijeg posla na svetu - spasenja sto vise ljudi.
Ti bi trebalo da naucis osnovne stvari poznavanja pravoslavne teologije pa ces lako videti ko je u otpadu ,a ko nije.
Preporucujem ti da iz odeljka "Sveti oci o ekumenizmu" procitas date tekstove:
http://www.istokpravoslavni.org/arhiva%20ekumenizam.html , i videces kako pravoslavlje gleda na ekumenizam,tj. na spajanje sa svejeresi - Vatikanom, kako ih je nazvao otac Justin Popovic.
Kad se to zna, onda se lako zakljucuje ko je ko , tj. ko je VUK U OVCIJOJ KOZI.
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@crnitrn,
What, you again attack a Serbian priest?
If Serbia would be ruled by a nationalistic government, I hope that then sectarian organizations will be expelled from Serbia.
@Kerber,
You say that it is not good to judge people. I agree. But remember what you said about the members of the Sinod? Is not that jugding? Secondly, I did not hear you complain when Crnitrn, who is obviously confused by Adventists, said that icons should not be used? I did hear you saying something on icons, that led into the direction of Crnitrn's statements. I am surprised that you as an Orthodox Christian are not insulted, in case if somebody talks about icons like that?
I also do not understand brother why you are not suspicious about the fact that an ex or current Adventist is spreading non-Orthodox theology amongst Serbs?
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Da li vi znate da je prema saborima ,dakle pravilima i kanonima, zabranjeno biti u zajednici sa svestenicima koji otvoreno propovedaju jeres(kao sto je rimski ekumenizam)?
Sta je vladika koji poziva na ovu jeres? Pravoslavan ili vuk u ovcijoj kozi?
Ja do sad nisam pominjao pravila usbojena u pravoslavlju,ali vidite koliko daleko to ide i koliko nema NI MALO PROSTORA u mirenju sa grehom jeresi:
(Apostolsko pravilo 15, Dvokratnog sabora)
"Verni treba da se odele od episkopa i svestenika koji otvoreno propovedaju jeres."
Necu dalje da citiram Svete oce sta govore, mozete sami da citate.
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Kerber,
OK if an Orthodox cooperates in that way with the Catholic Church, that is not good. But if an Orthodox cooperates with an Adventist in an ecumenist way, are you also condemning that? It seems that you separate Adventists from Catholics?
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@crnitrn,
What, you again attack a Serbian priest?
If Serbia would be ruled by a nationalistic government, I hope that then sectarian organizations will be expelled from Serbia.
@Kerber,
You say that it is not good to judge people. I agree. But remember what you said about the members of the Sinod? Is not that jugding? Secondly, I did not hear you complain when Crnitrn, who is obviously an Adventist, said that icons should not be used? I did hear you saying something on icons, that led into the direction of Crnitrn's statements. I am surprised that you as an Orthodox Christian are not insulted, in case if somebody talks about icons like that?
I also do not understand brother why you are not suspicious about the fact that an ex or current Adventist is spreading non-Orthodox theology amongst Serbs?
Necu da osudjujem Miroljuba Petrovica za svoja uverenja. Ja njegova uverenja postujem ,a mogu da mu sudim po njegovim plodovima,kao sto nam je i Hristos rekao da cemo ih po plodovima prepoznati. Njegova uverenja koaj se ticu ikona ili stanja duha posle smrti nisu nesto po cemu cu ja coveka odbaciti, nego po onome sto radi. A, ja mogu da vidim da je on srpski patriota i da se salaze za oslobodjenje od okupacije koju nam na politickom nivou namece EU i USA, a na duhovnom Vatikan.
Protiv ovih stvari se ne bore clanovi Sinoda na celu sa Patrijarhom,nego naprotiv. I pored toga jos nekanonski osudjuju i proteruju ljude(kao vladiku Artemija) koji otvoreno govore o opasnostima i zlu koje se nadvilo nad Srbima i pravoslavljem.
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Kerber,
Slazem se skoro s tobom brate.
Ali brate ti kazes da ne prihvacas Petrovicevo tumacenje o ikonama i stanju duse nakon smrti i drugih slicnih stvari. OK, to mi je drago da se slazemo. Ali ipak te stvari pripadaju subotarima. Mora biti jasno da je to jeres i da se to ne treba siriti medju Srbima, koji C.E. nazalost nasijesti na te stvari? Zar nam je potrebno da neko u okviru Crkve koristi subotarsku teoriju? To je opasno. To ne trebamo podrzavati.
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Kerber,
OK if an Orthodox cooperates in that way with the Catholic Church, that is not good. But if an Orthodox cooperates with an Adventist in an ecumenist way, are you also condemning that? It seems that you separate Adventists from Catholics?
Ja necu da pisem o ovim stvarima na engleskom jeziku. To je nas "prljav ves" i ne tice se drugih koji i nisu u stanju to da shvate.
Pogresio si. Ne postoji ni jedna drugi ekumenizam, osim rimskog. Ne postoji "adventisticki ekumenizam".Toga nema u praksi i niko se ujedinjuje u teologiji ,ni bogosluzenju sa Adventistickom Crkvom,a u realnosti postoji udruzivanje sa RKC i u teologiji(brutalne izmene pravoslavne teologije na Bogosloviji u Beogradu) i ujedinjenje u sluzbi kao sto je nasilno menjanje liturgije protivno ODLUCI Sv.Sabora SPC da se nista ne sme menjati.
Za vreme pape Benedikta XV donesena je odluka u vidu nekog dekreta da se ima sprovesti rimski ekumenizam. Taj dokument je povucen iz javnsoti 1939.g. Danasnji nacisticki papa je uzeo ime Benedikt XVI sto je jasno ukazivalo sta zeli da nastavi. I pre neki dan je papa javno objavio da mu je glavni zadatak "ujedinjenje".
Inace taj dekret je citirao redom kako treba sprovesti ekumenizam: da se privedu anglikanci(to je odradjeno pre nekoliko godina preko Blera), da se privedu protestanti(nije zvanicno odradjeno ali su toliko rascepkani,raslaslabljeni i razvodnjene teologije u svojoj relativizaciji Bozjih zapovesti da ih je lako kontrolisati i ne predstavljaju nikakav otpor Rimu), na kraju idu pravoslavni,ateisti i Jevreji.
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Kerber,
Slazem se skoro s tobom brate.
Ali brate ti kazes da ne prihvacas Petrovicevo tumacenje o ikonama i stanju duse nakon smrti i drugih slicnih stvari. OK, to mi je drago da se slazemo. Ali ipak te stvari pripadaju subotarima. Mora biti jasno da je to jeres i da se to ne treba siriti medju Srbima, koji C.E. nazalost nasijesti na te stvari? Zar nam je potrebno da neko u okviru Crkve koristi subotarsku teoriju? To je opasno. To ne trebamo podrzavati.
Verovanje da li je Dusa covecija budna ili da spava ,kako veruju adventisti, nece uticati na nase zivote , zato ja necu da ih osudjujem. Ali, adventisti imaju problem nepostovanja Bozjih zapovesti.jer ja gledam moje dve prijateljice koje su adventiskinje kako se ne cuvaju za brak.Izmenjale su nekoliko muskaraca. To je otpad. A, kod pravih i iskrenih pravoslavnih Srba toga nema.Znaci da je vaznije ono sto direktno utice na nase spasenje, nego verovanje koje nema nikakav uticaj na nas zivot.Jer, da li je dusa budna ili spava, videcemo ko je u pravu, kad za to dodje vreme.Zato ja necu da raspirujem vatru izmedju ljudi oko stvari koje nas ne doticu direktno.
A,niko u okviru Crkve ne koristi drugu teologiju ,OSIM EKUMENISTA.
EKUMENISTI koriste drugu ,uvode drugu teologiju i to NA SILU, ponalogu Rima.
I to nema veze sa adventistima.
Nisu oni opasnost , nego Rim.
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Pogresno si me shvatio.
Koliko ja vidim tebi smeta ako bi katolici i pravoslavci ispovjedali jednu vjeru.
Pa naravno se slazem s time!
Ali brate, tako mogu isto subotari da dolaze u nase hramove i da sa nama zajedno toboze ispovjedaju isto vjeru? Cudno je sto nemas isti stav prema subotarima?
Zar njih ne dozivljavas kao infiltrante?
Znaci ne smeta tebi ako neko u okviru SPC siri subotarsku jeres? Ako ti smeta, onda zasto ne osudjujes one koji to rade?
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Znaci da je vaznije ono sto direktno utice na nase spasenje, nego verovanje koje nema nikakav uticaj na nas zivot.Jer, da li je dusa budna ili spava, videcemo ko je u pravu, kad za to dodje vreme.Zato ja necu da raspirujem vatru izmedju ljudi oko stvari koje nas ne doticu direktno.
Ima utjecaja ako te to moze dovesti u jeres. Inace zar ne vjerujemo mi da su nasi sveci zivi i da se mole Bogu za nas?
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Pogresno si me shvatio.
Koliko ja vidim tebi smeta ako bi katolici i pravoslavci ispovjedali jednu vjeru.
Pa naravno se slazem s time!
Ali brate, tako mogu isto subotari da dolaze u nase hramove i da sa nama zajedno toboze ispovjedaju isto vjeru? Cudno je sto nemas isti stav prema subotarima?
Zar njih ne dozivljavas kao infiltrante?
Znaci ne smeta tebi ako neko u okviru SPC siri subotarsku jeres? Ako ti smeta, onda zasto ne osudjujes one koji to rade?
Pa koji subotari dolaze u hramove SPC da ispovedaju svoju veru? Ja to nisam video nikada u zivotu. Nisam nikada imao iskustva sa tako necim. Neces ti videti adventistu da dodje u pravoslavnu crkvu,jer oni imaju svoje.
Mi sa Vatikanom nemamo istu veru. Trebalo bi da malo vise proucis opstu ili pravoslavnu teologiju,pa da vidis. Sa Vatikanom imamo dosta razlika,kao sto je "filiokve" ili kao sto su apokrifi(lazne knjige koje je Vatikan uveo u Sveto pismo), ili cinjenica da je Vatikan IZBACIO drugu Bozju zapovest iz dekaloga i time brutalno napravio uzasnu hulu na Boga i promenio Zakon.To je pred Bogom za najstrozu kaznu. Nema spasa za to...
Da ne pominjem dogmu o bezgresnosti pape i svim bogohulnim titulama papskim kao sto je zamenik Hristov na Zamelji i prvo svestenik(a po Svetom pismu je Hristos licno prvosvestenik),i tako dalje , da ne idemo sad u tu pricu.
Nema nista zajednicko sa Vatikanom, pogotovu nam dela nisu zajednicka.
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Mi sa Vatikanom nemamo istu veru. Trebalo bi da malo vise proucis opstu ili pravoslavnu teologiju,pa da vidis.
Ma daj!! Kad sam ja ovo rekao?
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Znaci da je vaznije ono sto direktno utice na nase spasenje, nego verovanje koje nema nikakav uticaj na nas zivot.Jer, da li je dusa budna ili spava, videcemo ko je u pravu, kad za to dodje vreme.Zato ja necu da raspirujem vatru izmedju ljudi oko stvari koje nas ne doticu direktno.
Ima utjecaja ako te to moze dovesti u jeres. Inace zar ne vjerujemo mi da su nasi sveci zivi i da se mole Bogu za nas?
Da,to je pravoslavno ucenje,dok u protestantizmu se ne veruje da je Dusa budna, pa se odbacuje mogucnost da se drugi mole Bogu za ljude, zato se i odbacuje mogucnost molitve svecima(kad se recimo poljubi ikona i uputi molitva) i sl.
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Nemoj brate mene vrijedjati i reci da sam ja rekao da mi i katolici imamo istu vjeru!
Ja to nisam rekao.
Inace, ako taj Miroljub kaze da dusa nije ziva nakon smrti. Pa onda je to jeres i takvo ucenje moze nas narod odvesti u jeres.
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Nemoj brate mene vrijedjati i reci da sam ja rekao da mi i katolici imamo istu vjeru!
Ja to nisam rekao.
Inace, ako taj Miroljub kaze da dusa nije ziva nakon smrti. Pa onda je to jeres i takvo ucenje moze nas narod odvesti u jeres.
Pa, ja te ne vredjam, ali ne mozemo m isa Vatikanom ispovedati istu veru. Naravno, teoretski mozemo ukoliko i mi prihvatimo u teoriji i praksi sve ono sto Vatikan radi. A, ne daj Boze nikome to da prihvati.Ukoliko si mislio da ce vatikan sad da menja sebe, onda si naivan.Od toga nema nista,to je zlocinacka organizacija koja je sve samo ne crkva.Jedan svetac je rekao ovako: "Bezite od papista kao sto se bezi od guje. Sto dalje bezite od papista, to se vise priblizavate Bogu", Sveti Marko Efeski.
Ma nece nas narod odvesti u jeres, jer nas narod nije ni zainteresovan za osnovne stvari kao sto su Bozji Zakoni , a kamoli da se pita sta je sa dusom. Dobro je da iko javno kaze nesto korisno protiv homoseksualizma kao sto je radio Petrovic koji se pojavljivao u novinama i na TV da prica protiv toga. Sta da se radi kad niko drugi nece da digne glas. Onda to nam je sto nam je.
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Kazes da ja kazem da mi pravoslavci imamo istu vjeru sa Vatikanom?
To je vrijedjanje brate. Inace sto si to rekao? Na osnovu cega?
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Kazes da ja kazem da mi pravoslavci imamo istu vjeru sa Vatikanom?
To je vrijedjanje brate. Inace sto si to rekao? Na osnovu cega?
Haha...Pa, ne vredjam te,covece. Rekao si da bi voleo da ispovedamo jednu veru. Kako je to moguce? Pomocu kojih trikova je to moguce, ukoliko mi ne prihvatimo nista sto dolazi iz njihove kuhinje?
To je jedino moguce ako se mi prilagodimo Rimu - i verom i praksom.A, to bi bila katastrofa. Onda bi prosli kao Haiti i Indonezija.
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To nisam ja rekao! Pogresio si!
Gdje sam ja to rekao? vidi brate da je ovo vrijedjanje.
Mozda si me TOTALNO pogresno razumijo?
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Svaka cast kerberu na stavovima i na poznavanju pravoslavlja.
A kao drugo ja ovde nikog necu da preobracujem ako se ne secete vojsko i novakovicu vi ste digli galamu oko ikona koje su periferno pitanje i na osnovu toga kazete da sam adventista , moj ujak je moharh Pobogu , to radte kao pravi fanatici jos vam samo fali da stavite pojas sa eksplozivom i da nam zakucte na vrata!
Sto ne odgovoris na pianje da li postite kad stee pravoslavci sto kitite jelku za novu godinu to je katolicki obicaj a Ti si znaci katolik Catholic, Katolik
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@crnitrn,
What, you again attack a Serbian priest?
If Serbia would be ruled by a nationalistic government, I hope that then sectarian organizations will be expelled from Serbia.
Ja bih voleo to da se desi vise od tebe samo ima mali problem Irinej je u dilu sa tadicem :suave:
Ja ne napadam nase svestenike neko branim prave A to Je Vladika Artemije pasko-prizrenski do smrti!
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Ne razumijem sto Kerber kaze da ja mislim da mi i katolici imamo isto vjeru?
Mislim da li je to greska?
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Ne razumijem sto Kerber kaze da ja mislim da mi i katolici imamo isto vjeru?
Mislim da li je to greska?
Dobro, greska je. U redu.
Evo , da vidimo zasto sam ja napao otpad koji se javlja u Crkvi:
"Bice pitani episkopi i za njihov nacin zivota i za njihovu pastvu.Trazice se od njih odgovor za razumne ovce , koje su primili od arhiepiskopa Hrista. Ako se zbog njihove nemarnosti izgubila neka ovca , krv njena trazice se od njih(episkopa).
Slicno i svestenici dace odgovor za svoje parohije. Isto tako svaki vernik dace odgovor za dom svoj, za svoju zenu i decu i za sluge i sluskinje svoje , da li ih je podizao "u vaspitanju i nauci Gospodnjoj" kao sto porucuje Apostol(Ef.6,4)."
(Prepodobni Jefrem Sirin)
Sto se tice onih koji zbog neke jeresi, osudjene od Svetih Sabora , prekinu jedinstvo sa svojim predsedavajucim , tj. zato sto on javno propoveda jeres i otrivene glave je objavljuje u Crkvi - takve osobe ne samo da ne podlezu kazni po kanonima sto su se ogradili od jedinstva sa takozvanim episkopom pre sinodske odluke , vec zasluzuju i dostojnu cast medju pravoslavnima. Jer nisu episkopa, vec laznog episkopa i laznog ucitelja osudili i oni nisu pocepali crkveno jedinstvo raskolom, vec su se ozbiljno i trezveno trudili da izbave crkvu od sizme i raskola.
(15. pravilo Svetog konstantinopoljskog dvokratnog sabora)
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Dobro ali tvrditi da dusa nije ziva nakon smrti i da nasi sveci se Bogu ne mogu moliti za nas (i takve slicne stvari), to je pogresno ucenje, koje moze ljude odvesti u jeres.
Ali slazem se sta se tice Petrovicevih stavova o homoseksualizmu, abortusu itd. Ali ipak on treba sebe predstavljati kao Adventistu a ne kao pravoslavaca. To da nebi nasi nesvijesno prihvatili adventisticku teologiju. Ja mislim da je ova briga legitimna..
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Nobody will convert me here. All your tries are for nothing. I respect officials in our Holy Orthodox Church.
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Da li cita horoskop Novakovicu?
Da li mozes da mi objasnis posto verujes u besmrtnost duse kao Hindusi , sta su vile,vampiri i slicno?
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Masoni se dele jedni oce jezuite drugi nece!
http://www.alo.rs/vesti/34620/Zaratili_srpski_masoni
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SmpF9WyU94&feature=player_embedded#at=603
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http://www.vaseljenska.com/drustvo/u-senci-hapsenja-mladica-spc-odlucio-da-pozove-papu/
Jos jedna izdaja u jndoem danu!
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http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vaseljenska.com%2Fdrustvo%2Fu-senci-hapsenja-mladica-spc-odlucio-da-pozove-papu%2F&sl=sr&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8
One more betrayal, in same day!
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I do not consider him the leader of my church. He will be remembered as biggest traitor in our church history.