JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: muman613 on January 27, 2010, 01:43:26 PM
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This is a bizarre and non-Bibilical practice {actually it is against the Torah}.... Where did the xtians get this idea from?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584044,00.html
Pope John Paul II Whipped Himself as Act of Penance, Book Claims
The late Pope John Paul II, who has been put on the fast track to sainthood by the Vatican, regularly whipped himself as an act of penance to feel closer to G-d, and signed a secret document saying that he would step down as pontiff if he became incurably ill, according to a new book.
"Why a Saint?" by Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the Vatican "postulator" in charge of the canonization process, says the Polish-born Pope performed self flagellation as a bishop in Krakow and continued to do so in the Vatican after being elected Pope in 1978.
"In his wardrobe, among his vestments, there hung on a clothes hanger a special belt for trousers which he used as a whip," Monsignor Oder says. He said self flagellation was "an instrument of Christian perfection" emulating the sufferings of Jesus Christ.
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PS: I really don't want to know why... It just seems like another thing that the Church copied from the Pagans which they attempted to get to convert to their religion. Maybe the Pope must punish himself for the great sins the Church is guilty of against the Jewish people.
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PS: I really don't want to know why... It just seems like another thing that the Church copied from the Pagans which they attempted to get to convert to their religion. Maybe the Pope must punish himself for the great sins the Church is guilty of against the Jewish people.
:::D :::D No I don't think that was the reason.......In fact I am almost sure that was the last thing that was on his mind. ::) ::). I have never heard of this sort of behavior from clergy in the RCC but it seems like the source of this information is accurate. Whatever the reasons I am mystified by that sort of story. I have to say it makes for a few laughs :::D .The thought of the Pope whipping himself with a belt is indeed funny.
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PS: I really don't want to know why... It just seems like another thing that the Church copied from the Pagans which they attempted to get to convert to their religion. Maybe the Pope must punish himself for the great sins the Church is guilty of against the Jewish people.
:::D :::D No I don't think that was the reason.......In fact I am almost sure that was the last thing that was on his mind. ::) ::). I have never heard of this sort of behavior from clergy in the RCC but it seems like the source of this information is accurate. Whatever the reasons I am mystified by that sort of story. I have to say it makes for a few laughs :::D .The thought of the Pope whipping himself with a belt is indeed funny.
It is pretty funny! :::D
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This is a bizarre and non-Bibilical practice {actually it is against the Torah}.... Where did the xtians get this idea from?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584044,00.html
Pope John Paul II Whipped Himself as Act of Penance, Book Claims
The late Pope John Paul II, who has been put on the fast track to sainthood by the Vatican, regularly whipped himself as an act of penance to feel closer to G-d, and signed a secret document saying that he would step down as pontiff if he became incurably ill, according to a new book.
"Why a Saint?" by Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the Vatican "postulator" in charge of the canonization process, says the Polish-born Pope performed self flagellation as a bishop in Krakow and continued to do so in the Vatican after being elected Pope in 1978.
"In his wardrobe, among his vestments, there hung on a clothes hanger a special belt for trousers which he used as a whip," Monsignor Oder says. He said self flagellation was "an instrument of Christian perfection" emulating the sufferings of Jesus Christ.
...
PS: I really don't want to know why... It just seems like another thing that the Church copied from the Pagans which they attempted to get to convert to their religion. Maybe the Pope must punish himself for the great sins the Church is guilty of against the Jewish people.
It's Christian not xtian. For Jeebus Christ! For the people in Rio Linda.
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This is a bizarre and non-Bibilical practice {actually it is against the Torah}.... Where did the xtians get this idea from?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584044,00.html
Pope John Paul II Whipped Himself as Act of Penance, Book Claims
The late Pope John Paul II, who has been put on the fast track to sainthood by the Vatican, regularly whipped himself as an act of penance to feel closer to G-d, and signed a secret document saying that he would step down as pontiff if he became incurably ill, according to a new book.
"Why a Saint?" by Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the Vatican "postulator" in charge of the canonization process, says the Polish-born Pope performed self flagellation as a bishop in Krakow and continued to do so in the Vatican after being elected Pope in 1978.
"In his wardrobe, among his vestments, there hung on a clothes hanger a special belt for trousers which he used as a whip," Monsignor Oder says. He said self flagellation was "an instrument of Christian perfection" emulating the sufferings of Jesus Christ.
...
PS: I really don't want to know why... It just seems like another thing that the Church copied from the Pagans which they attempted to get to convert to their religion. Maybe the Pope must punish himself for the great sins the Church is guilty of against the Jewish people.
It's HIHIistian not xtian. For Jeebus Fry-st!
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This is a bizarre and non-Bibilical practice {actually it is against the Torah}.... Where did the xtians get this idea from?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584044,00.html
Pope John Paul II Whipped Himself as Act of Penance, Book Claims
The late Pope John Paul II, who has been put on the fast track to sainthood by the Vatican, regularly whipped himself as an act of penance to feel closer to G-d, and signed a secret document saying that he would step down as pontiff if he became incurably ill, according to a new book.
"Why a Saint?" by Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the Vatican "postulator" in charge of the canonization process, says the Polish-born Pope performed self flagellation as a bishop in Krakow and continued to do so in the Vatican after being elected Pope in 1978.
"In his wardrobe, among his vestments, there hung on a clothes hanger a special belt for trousers which he used as a whip," Monsignor Oder says. He said self flagellation was "an instrument of Christian perfection" emulating the sufferings of Jesus Christ.
...
PS: I really don't want to know why... It just seems like another thing that the Church copied from the Pagans which they attempted to get to convert to their religion. Maybe the Pope must punish himself for the great sins the Church is guilty of against the Jewish people.
It's Christian not xtian. For Jeebus Christ! For the people in Rio Linda.
Im sorry but I didn't mean it as an insult... Sometimes I say it with 'x' because it is quicker to write... But anyway.... I think self flagellation is wrong...
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This is a bizarre and non-Bibilical practice {actually it is against the Torah}.... Where did the xtians get this idea from?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584044,00.html
Pope John Paul II Whipped Himself as Act of Penance, Book Claims
The late Pope John Paul II, who has been put on the fast track to sainthood by the Vatican, regularly whipped himself as an act of penance to feel closer to G-d, and signed a secret document saying that he would step down as pontiff if he became incurably ill, according to a new book.
"Why a Saint?" by Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the Vatican "postulator" in charge of the canonization process, says the Polish-born Pope performed self flagellation as a bishop in Krakow and continued to do so in the Vatican after being elected Pope in 1978.
"In his wardrobe, among his vestments, there hung on a clothes hanger a special belt for trousers which he used as a whip," Monsignor Oder says. He said self flagellation was "an instrument of Christian perfection" emulating the sufferings of Jesus Christ.
...
PS: I really don't want to know why... It just seems like another thing that the Church copied from the Pagans which they attempted to get to convert to their religion. Maybe the Pope must punish himself for the great sins the Church is guilty of against the Jewish people.
It's Christian not xtian. For Jeebus Christ! For the people in Rio Linda.
Im sorry but I didn't mean it as an insult... Sometimes I say it with 'x' because it is quicker to write... But anyway.... I think self flagellation is wrong...
It is a not something that most people in the church would agree with either. All I can tell you from what I know this is not common behavior. A lot of things I come across that people do in the different religions of the world are hard to understand and this is one of them.
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You know, some people actually enjoy flagellation, umm, perhaps JP2 did too ?
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You know, some people actually enjoy flagellation, umm, perhaps JP2 did too ?
This reminds of of the 80s band DEVO and their famous song "WHIP IT!"
(http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/images/uploads/2009janearly/devo.jpg)
(http://craziestgadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/devo-action-set.jpg)
Devo Whip It lyrics
crack that whip
give the past the slip
step on a crack
break your momma's back
when a problem comes along
you must whip it
before the cream sits out too long
you must whip it
when something's going wrong
you must whip it
now whip it
into shape
shape it up
get straight
go forward
move ahead
try to detect it
it's not too late
to whip it
whip it good
when a good time turns around
you must whip it
you will never live it down
unless you whip it
no one gets away
until they whip it
i say whip it
whip it good
i say whip it
whip it good
crack that whip
give the past the slip
step on a crack
break your momma's back
when a problem comes along
you must whip it
before the cream sits out too long
you must whip it
when something's going wrong
you must whip it
now whip it
into shape
shape it up
get straight
go forward
move ahead
try to detect it
it's not too late
to whip it
into shape
shape it up
get straight
go forward
move ahead
try to detect it
it's not too late
to whip it
whip it good
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This is a bizarre and non-Bibilical practice {actually it is against the Torah}.... Where did the xtians get this idea from?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584044,00.html
Pope John Paul II Whipped Himself as Act of Penance, Book Claims
The late Pope John Paul II, who has been put on the fast track to sainthood by the Vatican, regularly whipped himself as an act of penance to feel closer to G-d, and signed a secret document saying that he would step down as pontiff if he became incurably ill, according to a new book.
"Why a Saint?" by Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the Vatican "postulator" in charge of the canonization process, says the Polish-born Pope performed self flagellation as a bishop in Krakow and continued to do so in the Vatican after being elected Pope in 1978.
"In his wardrobe, among his vestments, there hung on a clothes hanger a special belt for trousers which he used as a whip," Monsignor Oder says. He said self flagellation was "an instrument of Christian perfection" emulating the sufferings of Jesus Christ.
...
PS: I really don't want to know why... It just seems like another thing that the Church copied from the Pagans which they attempted to get to convert to their religion. Maybe the Pope must punish himself for the great sins the Church is guilty of against the Jewish people.
It's HIHIistian not xtian. For Jeebus Fry-st!
:thumbsdown: Sounds like something Pee Wee Herman would say :::D
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Some people in a militant arm of the RCC known as Opus Dei believe in self-flagellation or self-inflicted punishment. There is a device known as a celice, popularly depicted in Medieval texts that was used to inflict corporeal punishment beneath a clergyman's vestments.
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I think it's a completely retarded thing to do and anyone who looks up to him for harming his body in the name of God is completely misguided at best. I really think it's insulting that he would do something like that and call it holy in any way.
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Some people in a militant arm of the RCC known as Opus Dei believe in self-flagellation or self-inflicted punishment. There is a device known as a celice, popularly depicted in Medieval texts that was used to inflict corporeal punishment beneath a clergyman's vestments.
Yes, I have heard about it. They wear this thing on their legs. The founder of this order was Jose Maria Escriva. I have a book written by him in my library. It is an extract of his dictums.
I think this is a weird practice and superstition.
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I don't believe it takes all that much longer to be a bit respectful of others and type chr, instead of x.
Here is my philosophy on this is
"What you do on your own time is your own business!" Jerry Abdessa.
As long as the Pope wasn't flying on a common carrier or beating someone up...why does this matter?
The man is dead. The nun who exposed what he did in private should be ashamed of herself.
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Maybe this is a form of chastisement. I've never heard this before.
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Muman, I agree with you this is weird but the vast majority of Christians (including Catholics) do not partake in this behavior.
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As long as he didn't truly harm himself, well that's his business. If he feels closer to God because he identifies more closely with the suffering of Jesus at the hands of the Romans and Pontius Pilate, well that's between him and his maker
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I think it mimics pagan forms of self-mutiliation and shouldn't be done. Of course this would be the least of the problems I have with the guy. He was, after all, a Quran kisser. That's what really pisses me off about him. The best I can say for him is that at least he was against abortion.
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So it turns out that the Pope was a nut job. Go figure! I mean, really, why would you have to do something like that to feel closer to G-d? So let me ask you this: If he needed to do something like that to feel closer to G-d, then imagine how REALLY close he would feel if he cut out his tongue, or gouged out an eye or cut off a hand!! Did you ever see such mishagas in your life?
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So it turns out that the Pope was a nut job. Go figure! I mean, really, why would you have to do something like that to feel closer to G-d? So let me ask you this: If he needed to do something like that to feel closer to G-d, then imagine how REALLY close he would feel if he cut out his tongue, or gouged out an eye or cut off a hand!! Did you ever see such mishagas in your life?
This is my point.... The Torah is explicit that we are not to cut ourselves, or damage ourselves, or to mimic the ways of the pagans in their mourning rituals... And here is a leader of a religion which is supposed to learn something from the 'Tanach/OT' and yet they are going ahead and violating every command which Hashem gave to his people. Is it any wonder some Jews have serious issues with the Catholic church?
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Oops, sorry, muman613! I knew it was your point, sorry. When I said "Let me ask you this", I wasn't referring to you or to anyone in particular. I was using that as a device to further make my point. You're totally correct!
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i can see protestants here have no problem ridiculing the RCC, RCC followers would not even have problem ridiculing some of the customs of protestants and orthodoxies. So while your ministers go around telling everyone that gospel of christ is for the world, it makes you look foolish when there is so much internal conflict among yourself. I feel Jews have the right to ridicule/criticize considering what was done to them and their temple/relics in the history.
Also some here are saying the pope has nothing to do with what rest of the RCC followers do. but this is no different to muslims who say taliban do not represent them. when the people who claim to be upholders of your religion, indulge in such activites.. it only goes on to show how much popular support these people enjoy within that community.
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I think it is a shiaite practice and may be very popular in iran.
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What??
What type of leather was he wearing?
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Truth be told, Catholisim has a long history of self torture practices as a sign of piety.
For example, Thomas Beckett:
When Theobald died in 1162, Henry chose Becket as his next Archbishop of Canterbury. The decision angered many leading churchmen. They pointed out that Becket had never been a priest, had a reputation as a cruel military commander and was very materialistic (Becket loved expensive food, wine and clothes). They also feared that as Becket was a close friend of Henry II, he would not be an independent leader of the church.
After being appointed Thomas Becket began to show a concern for the poor. Every morning thirteen poor people were brought to his home. After washing their feet Becket served them a meal. He also gave each one of them four silver pennies.
Instead of wearing expensive clothes, Becket now wore a simple monastic habit. As a penance (punishment for previous sins) he slept on a cold stone floor, wore a tight-fitting hairshirt that was infested with fleas and was scourged (whipped) daily by his monks.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/NORbeckett.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilice
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Angry Chinese Kahanist,
You crack me up. :::D
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It's something done by Opus Dei their not militant Catholics it's a group started by Jose Maria Escriva as Ulli said
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No, they are militant obscurantist Catholics. Most Catholics do not ascribe to their teachings.
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No, they are militant obscurantist Catholics. Most Catholics do not ascribe to their teachings.
Most Cahoolics don't ascribe to their teachings but that doesn't make them militants