JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Edward on February 02, 2010, 05:36:08 PM
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''Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to EXCEL the other, and because they spend to support them, from their means.
Therefore the righteous women are devoutly OBEDIENT to Allah and to their husbands (masters).
As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, and BEAT THEM.
Surely Allah is Ever Most High. Most Great.''
(Qur'an, Surah 4:34)
as you can see, the peaceful religion of Muhammad treats women as equals (that's at least, what the Imams say)
Surely the Quran is a book of love and peace. and I have prooves... check out my recent post in ''the truth about Islam''...
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TROLL
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Muzzy sympathizing troll
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''Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to EXCEL the other, and because they spend to support them, from their means.
Therefore the righteous women are devoutly OBEDIENT to Allah and to their husbands (masters).
As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, and BEAT THEM.
Surely Allah is Ever Most High. Most Great.''
(Qur'an, Surah 4:34)
as you can see, the peaceful religion of Muhammad treats women as equals (that's at least, what the Imams say)
Surely the Quran is a book of love and peace. and I have prooves... check out my recent post in ''the truth about Islam''...
Are you MAD or INSANE? Look, chump, sell crazy somewhere else.
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''Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to EXCEL the other, and because they spend to support them, from their means.
Therefore the righteous women are devoutly OBEDIENT to Allah and to their husbands (masters).
As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, and BEAT THEM.
Surely Allah is Ever Most High. Most Great.''
(Qur'an, Surah 4:34)
as you can see, the peaceful religion of Muhammad treats women as equals (that's at least, what the Imams say)
Surely the Quran is a book of love and peace. and I have prooves... check out my recent post in ''the truth about Islam''...
Are you MAD or INSANE? Look, chump, sell crazy somewhere else.
:clap: :clap:
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I think he's being sarcastic.
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I think he's being sarcastic.
I certainly hope so because he won't last long around here with posts like that if he is serious.
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ED: IS THIS SOME TYPE OF A JOKE?
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I think he's being sarcastic.
I certainly hope so because he won't last long around here with posts like that if he is serious.
I'm not saying this forum is any worse than others - but I have noticed a tendency to not read posts carefully, jump to quick conclusions and then post hasty, angry replies. It's happened to me a few times. To me, it was obvious that the original poster was being sarcastic - after I read the post from beginning to end and thought about it. Also, if you look at his other posts, it becomes even more obvious that he was being sarcastic. Now I realize that I'm new here and I know I'm not the most popular. But I must give a little musar here: read posts carefully before attacking them. We don't have the benefits of body language, facial expressions (except smileys) or inflections to give nuance to our posts so we should judge people favorably whenever we can.
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We get many trolls here, every other day.
People should be more clear of their intentions, this person posted this and is intentially being vague.
This causes problems here.
I think he's being sarcastic.
I certainly hope so because he won't last long around here with posts like that if he is serious.
I'm not saying this forum is any worse than others - but I have noticed a tendency to not read posts carefully, jump to quick conclusions and then post hasty, angry replies. It's happened to me a few times. To me, it was obvious that the original poster was being sarcastic - after I read the post from beginning to end and thought about it. Also, if you look at his other posts, it becomes even more obvious that he was being sarcastic. Now I realize that I'm new here and I know I'm not the most popular. But I must give a little musar here: read posts carefully before attacking them. We don't have the benefits of body language, facial expressions (except smileys) or inflections to give nuance to our posts so we should judge people favorably whenever we can.
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I think he's being sarcastic.
I certainly hope so because he won't last long around here with posts like that if he is serious.
I'm not saying this forum is any worse than others - but I have noticed a tendency to not read posts carefully, jump to quick conclusions and then post hasty, angry replies. It's happened to me a few times. To me, it was obvious that the original poster was being sarcastic - after I read the post from beginning to end and thought about it. Also, if you look at his other posts, it becomes even more obvious that he was being sarcastic. Now I realize that I'm new here and I know I'm not the most popular. But I must give a little musar here: read posts carefully before attacking them. We don't have the benefits of body language, facial expressions (except smileys) or inflections to give nuance to our posts so we should judge people favorably whenever we can.
You are correct to some degree in this case... The thing is Edward is kind of new here and although I have read some of his stuff I have not gained a lasting impression of what he is about. Now that its been pointed out I see that he was being sarcastic. Newer members need to give some of us old timers a chance to get to know them before they turn on the sarcasm since its all to easy to jump to conclusions reading a post or two like the muzzy praising one.
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Oy Vey!!!!!!!!
My dear fellow JTFers, firstly, let me make something clear, I was bein' sarcastic, I ain't no Muzzy (thank God) I'm an American Jew, who faught in the US Navy, and soon will serve in the IDF, and I'm gonna kick some Arab-ass!!! I just wanted to show you what the Quran teaches the Muslim savages..
You attack me without reason.
I am a loyal member and supporter of this great forum's ideas. Next time you see such posts, try to look at the previous posts of the person you suspect to be a troll...
Death to Islam!
God bless you all!
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How the hell can I be pro-muslim, after writing a post like ''Quranic Citations''?!!?!?
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How the hell can I be pro-muslim, after writing a post like ''Quranic Citations''?!!?!?
I believe you. I know you were only exposing the truth about Islam and I hope many Muslims wake up and realize just how evil their religion really is.
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Oy Vey!!!!!!!!
My dear fellow JTFers, firstly, let me make something clear, I was bein' sarcastic, I ain't no Muzzy (thank G-d) I'm an American Jew, who faught in the US Navy, and soon will serve in the IDF, and I'm gonna kick some Arab-donkey!!! I just wanted to show you what the Quran teaches the Muslim savages..
You attack me without reason.
I am a loyal member and supporter of this great forum's ideas. Next time you see such posts, try to look at the previous posts of the person you suspect to be a troll...
Death to Islam!
G-d bless you all!
Well now that we got that cleared up :::D :::D
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It's ok Edward, it is just one day, you will know what I mean....
:::D :::D
Oy Vey!!!!!!!!
My dear fellow JTFers, firstly, let me make something clear, I was bein' sarcastic, I ain't no Muzzy (thank G-d) I'm an American Jew, who faught in the US Navy, and soon will serve in the IDF, and I'm gonna kick some Arab-donkey!!! I just wanted to show you what the Quran teaches the Muslim savages..
You attack me without reason.
I am a loyal member and supporter of this great forum's ideas. Next time you see such posts, try to look at the previous posts of the person you suspect to be a troll...
Death to Islam!
G-d bless you all!
Well now that we got that cleared up :::D :::D
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We all know the Jewish perspective of how we should treat our wives? Don't we?
You have heard the expression "Jewish American Princess", haven't you? Our women are often the queens of their households. A topic which I study pretty often is known as "Shalom Bayit". This means "Peace in the Home", a topic which every married Jew should study often. From the Jewish perspective the man is guilty of a transgression just because his wife shed a tear during an argument. Do you know how easy a woman sheds a tear these days? Especially a Jewish woman? I just hope that men don't burn in gehinnom too long for transgressing this rule.
Women have their responsibilities for keeping the home in order, and being there for their husbands. But the management of the home should be a mutually agreed upon system. It is said that it was as difficult for Hashem to split the Sea of Reeds as it is for him to match the Challah {Bride} and Chassan {Groom}. Men and women are two different animals. As much as I love women I also accept that they are different from men.
I can't say I am much of a feminist. I believe men and women have two different roles in this world. I guess I am a literalist when it comes to the story of Adam and Eve, that she is a soulmate for the man, and she opposes him. How many hours did we spend in Marriage counseling? The Torah perspective is the only thing which truly works. What I mean is that modern marriage counselors often recommend the book "Men are from Mars and Women from Venus" which basically explains that we are different. But the Torah perspective adds the aspect that men and women are two parts to the entire human being. That the spiritual world mirrors the physical word in this aspect of male and female, the giver of seed and the nurturer of life.
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This is very interesting...
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This is very interesting...
One last thing on this topic of Marital Harmony... Here is the webpage from Chabad on this topic:
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/477632/jewish/Marital-Harmony.htm
Here is an article on Shalom Bayit from OU's website:
http://www.ou.org/shabbat_shalom/article/mm_marriage
Pinchas - Meaning in Marriage
Rabbi Asher Meir
What is marriage all about? A first glance at the halakhic sources would give the impression that raising a family is the primary motivation. But a deeper look shows that Shalom Bayit, marital harmony between husband and wife, is just as important.
The very first commandment in the Torah, according to Rambam and the Chinukh, is P'RU UR-VU - be fruitful and multiply. This is also the first halakhah in Even haEzer, the section of the Tur and the Shulchan Arukh relating to marital laws. There are also a number of laws which seem to make marital harmony subordinate to the need for procreation. For example, if a couple are together for ten years and have no children, Rambam rules that he is obliged to divorce her and seek another match which will enable him to fulfill the mitzva of procreation. (Ishut 15:7.)
Yet examining these very examples ultimately convinces us of the independent importance of the emotional and spiritual connection between husband and wife. It is true that the first mitzva of the Torah is to "be fruitful and multiply" (B'reshit 1:28). But the previous verse describes the creation of mankind as follows:"And G^d created mankind in His image, in the image of G^d He created him; male and female He created them". Male and female are two different, essential aspects of the single creation of Mankind; afterwards, they are commanded to procreate. In the following chapter of B'reshit as well, the reason for the creation of woman is so that man should have "a help suitable for him". Only much later in the chapter is reproduction mentioned, as Chava is punished with painful labor and referred to as "the mother of all living".
The Tur does begin his code with the laws of reproduction, but the beginning of the book reads as follows:
"It is not good for man to be by himself, I will make him a help suitable for him."
Blessed be the name of the Holy One, blessed be He, Who desires the welfare of His creatures, and knew that it is not good for man to be alone, and thus made him a help suitable for him. And ALSO (my emphasis - AM), because the intention of the creation of man was for him to be fruitful and multiply, and this is impossible without a help.
Of course there is an intimate connection between the two, as the Bach points out. The "help" created for Adam was specifically one who would join him in propagating the human race. But the human element is given separate and even primary importance.
The Rema in the Darkhei Moshe on this same chapter relates to the various laws that seem to subordinate marital harmony to the need to raise a family. He cites the Rivash who writes: "All our days we have never seen, and for many generations we have never heard, of a Beit Din which occupied itself with separating a wife from her husband if she lived with him ten years without children". He then goes on to give a number of other examples where the law seems to forbid marriage or oblige a divorce where having children is impossible, but practically speaking "the sages of the generations never paid attention to prevent such [childless] matches, and it goes without saying that they did not seek to separate them."
One opinion in the Gemara (Avoda Zara 5a) suggests that in the absence of sin, procreation would have ceased at Matan Torah; but the same opinion acknowledges that marriage and marital intimacy would have continued.
Domestic harmony and raising a family are not independent, unrelated aspects of marriage. They are intimately related, as we see from the adjacent mention in the Torah and in the Tur, and as explicated by the Bach. When the human experience is complete, when the Divine image is realized jointly, "in the image of G^d He created him; male and female He created them", then our humanity is also fertile and prolific, tending to multiply itself. And conversely, family life and raising children make an invaluable contribution to deepening the affection and under- standing among spouses.
But it is true that in our sources as well as in our law the psychological and spiritual connection between man and wife has its own independent importance.
Rabbi Asher Meir is the author of the book Meaning in Mitzvot, distributed by Feldheim. The book provides insights into the inner meaning of our daily practices, following the order of the 221 chapters of the Kitzur Shulchan Arukh.
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Oy Vey!!!!!!!!
My dear fellow JTFers, firstly, let me make something clear, I was bein' sarcastic, I ain't no Muzzy (thank G-d) I'm an American Jew, who faught in the US Navy, and soon will serve in the IDF, and I'm gonna kick some Arab-donkey!!! I just wanted to show you what the Quran teaches the Muslim savages..
You attack me without reason.
I am a loyal member and supporter of this great forum's ideas. Next time you see such posts, try to look at the previous posts of the person you suspect to be a troll...
Death to Islam!
G-d bless you all!
I'm not convinced. TROLL!!!! >:(
Just kidding. :::D
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I must learn New-Yorkese....
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Edward I knew you were joking by the parts you emphasized in caps. I laughed but it makes me sad that Islam is so evil too.
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Rubystars, I'm glad that you noticed that I quoted these parts for sarcasm.. it's nice to see, that at least some people pay attention to the whole text before attacking me...
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Rubystars, I'm glad that you noticed that I quoted these parts for sarcasm.. it's nice to see, that at least some people pay attention to the whole text before attacking me...
I think most people just skim posts and sarcasm is misunderstood a lot. I try not to use it too much.
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I thought the orginal poster was being sarcastic. "Sure its a religion of peace and love and equality. Husbands, beat your wives if they don't listen to you.". If this is equality peace and love to a Muslim prostelate please do tell us more fire for the fodder. It just proves how much evil islam is.
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c'mon! Obvious sarcasm!
Some of you people here are such bad judges. Bad witch hunters.
That's funny because, when I first signed up for the forum, I was accused of being a Jew by Jews.
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I was not attacking you, I was questioning your intentions. We get trolls in here every other day.
Rubystars, I'm glad that you noticed that I quoted these parts for sarcasm.. it's nice to see, that at least some people pay attention to the whole text before attacking me...
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You act like that is a BAD thing.
:doctor:
c'mon! Obvious sarcasm!
Some of you people here are such bad judges. Bad witch hunters.
That's funny because, when I first signed up for the forum, I was accused of being a Jew by Jews.