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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: TruthSpreader on February 10, 2010, 05:32:27 PM

Title: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: TruthSpreader on February 10, 2010, 05:32:27 PM
Which religion is superior? For me, Christianity represents the light and Islam represents the darkness. No wonder most of the Muslim world is so far behind that of the Christian West. When I mean that, I mean economiclly.




Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: New Yorker on February 10, 2010, 05:49:30 PM
Which religion is superior? For me, Christianity represents the light and Islam represents the darkness. No wonder most of the Muslim world is so far behind that of the Christian West. When I mean that, I mean economiclly.






Far behind:

Economically, technologically, socially, hygienically!
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: TruthSpreader on February 10, 2010, 05:54:58 PM
Which religion is superior? For me, Christianity represents the light and Islam represents the darkness. No wonder most of the Muslim world is so far behind that of the Christian West. When I mean that, I mean economiclly.






Far behing:

Economically, technologically, socially, hygienically!

And that's I why I'm proud to be an American Christian!!!!

Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: New Yorker on February 10, 2010, 05:56:26 PM

Behing? Behind, d, I was way off the home keys on the keyboard. : )
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Moshe92 on February 10, 2010, 05:56:56 PM
It depends on whether you mean currently or historically.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: TruthSpreader on February 10, 2010, 06:00:07 PM
It depends on whether you mean currently or historically.

Currently. But regardless, any religion is superior to Islam.

Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: New Yorker on February 10, 2010, 06:02:39 PM
It depends on whether you mean currently or historically.

They kept up with civilization 800 years ago, big whoop! Now they are 800 BEHIND all civilizations.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Moshe92 on February 10, 2010, 06:05:06 PM
Islam is the biggest threat right now, but the number of Jews who have died over the years due to Muslim persecution is nowhere near the number of Jews who have died due to Christian persecution.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Rubystars on February 10, 2010, 06:10:36 PM
Christians (should) hate Muslims now so hopefully the number of Muslims that die due to Christian persecution will far outweigh the number of Jews that died due to Christian persecution.  ;D
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on February 10, 2010, 07:50:39 PM
Kind of a silly topic if you ask me, albeit it should be a no-brainer. Moshe92 makes a sobering point though.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: angryChineseKahanist on February 10, 2010, 09:03:14 PM
Christianity or Islam...hmmm that's a tought one...
I'm going have to think about this one for a few weeks.

Lets see with Islam, its Allah or the sword...
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: GoIsraelGo! on February 10, 2010, 09:04:15 PM

 This war we are engaged in is sinister by nature in the form of 1.5 billion muslims.

islam seeks to slaughter every Christian and Jew on Earth...
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: TruthSpreader on February 10, 2010, 09:14:07 PM

 This war we are engaged in is sinister by nature in the form of 1.5 billion muslims.

islam seeks to slaughter every Christian and Jew on Earth...

And every non-Muslim as well. Even non-practicing Muslims are also targets.

Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Dr. Dan on February 10, 2010, 09:57:06 PM
In history people who called themselves christians did cruel things like muslims do today if not worse than what the muslims do today.

However, christianity is capable of making gentiles be righteous and moral people if followed with the right heart.

Islam on the otherhand is a satanic religion which is the anti Jewish religion. Much like the chrisitians believe in a christ and antichrist. Islam never does good and it is a monotheistic religion which perverts righteousness and goodness and morality.

Christianity followed by the proper heart is not supposed to do that. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on February 10, 2010, 11:47:45 PM
In history people who called themselves christians did cruel things like muslims do today if not worse than what the muslims do today.

However, christianity is capable of making gentiles be righteous and moral people if followed with the right heart.

Islam on the otherhand is a satanic religion which is the anti Jewish religion. Much like the chrisitians believe in a christ and antichrist. Islam never does good and it is a monotheistic religion which perverts righteousness and goodness and morality.

Christianity followed by the proper heart is not supposed to do that. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Thank you very much for the eloquent post, Dr. Dan. You are totally right.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Zionist Revolutionary on February 11, 2010, 12:55:40 AM
The more someone truly believes in Christianity, the gooder they become. The more someone truly believes in Islam, the more evil they become.

That is the difference between the violence and sins of Christians and Muslims. For Christians, it goes against their faith to do atrocities like what has been done in the past. For Muslims, it goes against their faith to be peaceful.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Yirmayahu on February 11, 2010, 01:47:48 AM
Islam is the biggest threat right now, but the number of Jews who have died over the years due to Muslim persecution is nowhere near the number of Jews who have died due to Christian persecution.

Moshe I agree with you on this to s certain extent. When it comes to the persecution of our people by "Christians," we need to make a further differentiation between real Christians or Roman Catholics and Orthodox Church believers. Most if not all of the nations that have put us through the ringer have been dominated by the RC Church and the Orthodox, like the Russians. It should also be noted that upwards of 70 million real Christians (bible believing and practicing, what some call Born Again believers in Jesus), died at the hands of the Roman Catholic Church and if you study their belief system it really has little in common with true Christianity. Frankly, if I was being hunted down and a Catholic family offered to take me in and so did a Christian family; I would without a second thought go with the Christians. When the Gestapo would come to the Catholic's door they would hand me over right away; but the Christians would go to the camp alongside me. Happened many times in Nazi Europe.

Sorry for being so long winded; just something that I am passionate about. Good Christians often get lumped in with the evil that RC's do.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Dr. Dan on February 11, 2010, 06:56:13 AM
I am going to stand by my statement that when christian gentiles do the right things with their heart they are a moral people.

However there is one comment I want to make about the origins of christianity. I hope I don't offend any of the chrisitians on this forum who act on the above comment. And if I'm wrong in any instance, let me know.

Chrisitianity has gone through one heck of an evolutuion in 2000 or few years. Initially it was a bunch of Jews who felt Jesus was the messiah. They started changing Torah rules, much like the reform, conservative, reconstructed groups of today and lost members due to probably assimilation. So in order to not lose followers, those earliest christians began to accept all types of pagan converts by adding the pagan's traditions to this religion. It happened so much that the "Judaism" of the first christians changed into a whole other religion. Tell me if I'm incorrect.

Now if a righteous chrisitian is seeking truth and sees what I'm writing is basically true, he might assume, "why don't I practice this religion like what the first chrisitians intended it to be?". However those first christians were the very reform jews of today. And everyone on this forum realizes what the reform movement does.

On the other hand if a righteous gentile learns  what I'm writing is true, Noahidism would be the appropriate theology for him.

What I wrote is very controversial and its not meant to put anyone down. To me a righteous christian gentile is as righteous as a righteous noahide. I only speak of theology and what makes logical sense to me.

And I'm sorry if I offended any chrisitians. You know I love each and every one of you. If I was wrong in anything I said, please correct me.

 
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on February 11, 2010, 07:08:13 AM
Moshe I agree with you on this to s certain extent. When it comes to the persecution of our people by "Christians," we need to make a further differentiation between real Christians or Roman Catholics and Orthodox Church believers. Most if not all of the nations that have put us through the ringer have been dominated by the RC Church and the Orthodox, like the Russians. It should also be noted that upwards of 70 million real Christians (bible believing and practicing, what some call Born Again believers in Jesus), died at the hands of the Roman Catholic Church and if you study their belief system it really has little in common with true Christianity. Frankly, if I was being hunted down and a Catholic family offered to take me in and so did a Christian family; I would without a second thought go with the Christians. When the Gestapo would come to the Catholic's door they would hand me over right away; but the Christians would go to the camp alongside me. Happened many times in Nazi Europe.

Sorry for being so long winded; just something that I am passionate about. Good Christians often get lumped in with the evil that RC's do.
There are good Catholics and Orthodox (look at the Serbs), and there are evil Protestants (look at Martin Luther). I don't think you can neatly lump Christians by denomination.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Rubystars on February 11, 2010, 07:19:24 AM
The difference Dr. Dan is that a real righteous Christian today or in the earliest days of Christianity is not promoting the evil things like the reform movement are.

They weren't saying it's ok to murder babies in the womb or to have homosexual relationships or to completely ignore God's rules for good behavior and make up all your own. Christians honor and respect what God put into the Jewish Bible.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Dr. Dan on February 11, 2010, 07:53:48 AM
The difference Dr. Dan is that a real righteous Christian today or in the earliest days of Christianity is not promoting the evil things like the reform movement are.

They weren't saying it's ok to murder babies in the womb or to have homosexual relationships or to completely ignore G-d's rules for good behavior and make up all your own. Christians honor and respect what G-d put into the Jewish Bible.

thank you rubystars
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: GoIsraelGo! on February 11, 2010, 09:16:11 AM

 This war we are engaged in is sinister by nature in the form of 1.5 billion muslims.

islam seeks to slaughter every Christian and Jew on Earth...

And every non-Muslim as well. Even non-practicing Muslims are also targets.



Agreed!
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: voo-yo on February 11, 2010, 09:22:58 AM
I am going to stand by my statement that when christian gentiles do the right things with their heart they are a moral people.

However there is one comment I want to make about the origins of christianity. I hope I don't offend any of the chrisitians on this forum who act on the above comment. And if I'm wrong in any instance, let me know.

Chrisitianity has gone through one heck of an evolutuion in 2000 or few years. Initially it was a bunch of Jews who felt Jesus was the messiah. They started changing Torah rules, much like the reform, conservative, reconstructed groups of today and lost members due to probably assimilation. So in order to not lose followers, those earliest christians began to accept all types of pagan converts by adding the pagan's traditions to this religion. It happened so much that the "Judaism" of the first christians changed into a whole other religion. Tell me if I'm incorrect.

Now if a righteous chrisitian is seeking truth and sees what I'm writing is basically true, he might assume, "why don't I practice this religion like what the first chrisitians intended it to be?". However those first christians were the very reform jews of today. And everyone on this forum realizes what the reform movement does.

On the other hand if a righteous gentile learns  what I'm writing is true, Noahidism would be the appropriate theology for him.

What I wrote is very controversial and its not meant to put anyone down. To me a righteous christian gentile is as righteous as a righteous noahide. I only speak of theology and what makes logical sense to me.

And I'm sorry if I offended any chrisitians. You know I love each and every one of you. If I was wrong in anything I said, please correct me.

 
They didn't change anything except they didn't follow Oral Law anymore. Also, they were losing members more through extermination than assimilation.
But yes, present day Christianity is more Hellenism than Judaism.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ on February 11, 2010, 11:01:26 AM
even Pastafarianism is better than Islam!
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on February 11, 2010, 11:07:55 AM
Hmmm. The issue of how Hellenized Christianity is or isn't is difficult to address and probably outside of the scope of this forum. At first, in the days of the New Testament, Christianity was not even considered a new religion per se, but simply a new branch/sect/"denomination" of Judaism. As the majority of Christians became Greeks/Romans rather than Jewish converts after the destruction of the Temple, this came to change. As the centuries passed Christianity became more and more Romanized--to the point where Dante Alighieri pretty much synonymized Rome with Jerusalem in the 1300s.

I think that most Christians are less Hellenized than that at the present.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on February 11, 2010, 11:10:18 AM
even Pastafarianism is better than Islam!
Rastafarianism is not that far from black Islam (Nation of Islam). It isn't as warlike but it teaches that whitey is the enemy all the same.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Rubystars on February 11, 2010, 11:10:52 AM
even Pastafarianism is better than Islam!

 :::D

http://jcnot4me.com/images/Spaghetti_Monster.jpg

even Pastafarianism is better than Islam!
Rastafarianism is not that far from black Islam (Nation of Islam). It isn't as warlike but it teaches that whitey is the enemy all the same.

True but I think he meant Pastafarianism.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: muman613 on February 11, 2010, 11:20:36 AM
No,

Lets invent a new word...

Mine is "Shastafarianism", for those Shasta fans...

(http://www.rosebum.com/forum/download/file.php?avatar=1371_1227586327.jpg)
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: syyuge on February 11, 2010, 11:30:47 AM
"Pastafarians celebrate every Friday as a holy day; this is the holiest of Pastafarian holidays".

Friday is only a 14.286% coincidence and rest 85.714% an intelligent design.


Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ on February 11, 2010, 11:35:11 AM
what is Shasta?
even Pastafarianism is better than Islam!

 :::D

http://jcnot4me.com/images/Spaghetti_Monster.jpg

even Pastafarianism is better than Islam!
Rastafarianism is not that far from black Islam (Nation of Islam). It isn't as warlike but it teaches that whitey is the enemy all the same.

True but I think he meant Pastafarianism.
yes ;D
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Ulli on February 11, 2010, 12:48:11 PM
Islam is dreck.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Historical Truth on February 11, 2010, 06:23:30 PM
Christianity reformed itself. Islam never will.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Yirmayahu on February 12, 2010, 02:28:57 AM
The choice of using the word denomination in regard to lumping Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox doesn't really work. Denomination is a word chosen long ago by Roman Catholicism to describe Protestants. To nominate is to endorse and to denominate is to unendorse. In essence Roman Catholicism used it as a slap in the face toward Protestants, basically telling them that in the eyes of Rome, Protestants were null and void. The Vatican recognized the Orthodox religion so neither the RC or Orthodox Church fits into the denomination mold.

True that Martin Luther was a rabid anti-Jew and his thoughts about Jews might have been in the minds of holocaust perpetrators, but he wasn't directly involved in the holocaust whereas Popes and other Roman Catholics not only endorsed but participated in the Inquisition and all of the purges in Europe, and the Orthodox sanctioned the Pogroms in Russia there was direct involvement. From what I've studied, one cannot easily find cases (if they can find them at all) of Protestant churches sanctioning persecution. Of all of the true Christians that I have encountered (thousands) I've found them to be staunch Jewish and Israel supporters. Difference from the others? They read their Bibles and try to follow the words of their Messiah, Yeshua. Catholics and Orthodox fall short where that claim might be made in their regard. They follow church edicts and the commands of Popes and priests; the blind leading the blind so to speak.
Yirmayahu
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: ~Hanna~ on February 12, 2010, 05:05:59 AM
 :::D :laugh:

I used to drink that alot while growing up.


No,

Lets invent a new word...

Mine is "Shastafarianism", for those Shasta fans...

(http://www.rosebum.com/forum/download/file.php?avatar=1371_1227586327.jpg)

Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: ~Hanna~ on February 12, 2010, 05:12:20 AM
FYI, we do have alot of really great Catholic members here....I am a non Catholic Christian, but have had many Catholic friends over the years and some who also came OUT of Catholocism....I've met some really nice Catholics over the years....let us not hold anyone on this forum accountable for any of that, ok?




Islam is the biggest threat right now, but the number of Jews who have died over the years due to Muslim persecution is nowhere near the number of Jews who have died due to Christian persecution.

Moshe I agree with you on this to s certain extent. When it comes to the persecution of our people by "Christians," we need to make a further differentiation between real Christians or Roman Catholics and Orthodox Church believers. Most if not all of the nations that have put us through the ringer have been dominated by the RC Church and the Orthodox, like the Russians. It should also be noted that upwards of 70 million real Christians (bible believing and practicing, what some call Born Again believers in Jesus), died at the hands of the Roman Catholic Church and if you study their belief system it really has little in common with true Christianity. Frankly, if I was being hunted down and a Catholic family offered to take me in and so did a Christian family; I would without a second thought go with the Christians. When the Gestapo would come to the Catholic's door they would hand me over right away; but the Christians would go to the camp alongside me. Happened many times in Nazi Europe.

Sorry for being so long winded; just something that I am passionate about. Good Christians often get lumped in with the evil that RC's do.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: ~Hanna~ on February 12, 2010, 05:25:22 AM
You are absolutely right, Dan....the church today is NOTHING like the early church, nothing at all.

Many are realizing this....it has gotten so off base in some areas, it has become a mockery.... :'(

You post taught me some things, it is always good to learn.

I am going to stand by my statement that when christian gentiles do the right things with their heart they are a moral people.

However there is one comment I want to make about the origins of christianity. I hope I don't offend any of the chrisitians on this forum who act on the above comment. And if I'm wrong in any instance, let me know.

Chrisitianity has gone through one heck of an evolutuion in 2000 or few years. Initially it was a bunch of Jews who felt Jesus was the messiah. They started changing Torah rules, much like the reform, conservative, reconstructed groups of today and lost members due to probably assimilation. So in order to not lose followers, those earliest christians began to accept all types of pagan converts by adding the pagan's traditions to this religion. It happened so much that the "Judaism" of the first christians changed into a whole other religion. Tell me if I'm incorrect.

Now if a righteous chrisitian is seeking truth and sees what I'm writing is basically true, he might assume, "why don't I practice this religion like what the first chrisitians intended it to be?". However those first christians were the very reform jews of today. And everyone on this forum realizes what the reform movement does.

On the other hand if a righteous gentile learns  what I'm writing is true, Noahidism would be the appropriate theology for him.

What I wrote is very controversial and its not meant to put anyone down. To me a righteous christian gentile is as righteous as a righteous noahide. I only speak of theology and what makes logical sense to me.

And I'm sorry if I offended any chrisitians. You know I love each and every one of you. If I was wrong in anything I said, please correct me.

 
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Dr. Dan on February 12, 2010, 11:44:20 AM
thanks hanna


You are absolutely right, Dan....the church today is NOTHING like the early church, nothing at all.

Many are realizing this....it has gotten so off base in some areas, it has become a mockery.... :'(

You post taught me some things, it is always good to learn.

I am going to stand by my statement that when christian gentiles do the right things with their heart they are a moral people.

However there is one comment I want to make about the origins of christianity. I hope I don't offend any of the chrisitians on this forum who act on the above comment. And if I'm wrong in any instance, let me know.

Chrisitianity has gone through one heck of an evolutuion in 2000 or few years. Initially it was a bunch of Jews who felt Jesus was the messiah. They started changing Torah rules, much like the reform, conservative, reconstructed groups of today and lost members due to probably assimilation. So in order to not lose followers, those earliest christians began to accept all types of pagan converts by adding the pagan's traditions to this religion. It happened so much that the "Judaism" of the first christians changed into a whole other religion. Tell me if I'm incorrect.

Now if a righteous chrisitian is seeking truth and sees what I'm writing is basically true, he might assume, "why don't I practice this religion like what the first chrisitians intended it to be?". However those first christians were the very reform jews of today. And everyone on this forum realizes what the reform movement does.

On the other hand if a righteous gentile learns  what I'm writing is true, Noahidism would be the appropriate theology for him.

What I wrote is very controversial and its not meant to put anyone down. To me a righteous christian gentile is as righteous as a righteous noahide. I only speak of theology and what makes logical sense to me.

And I'm sorry if I offended any chrisitians. You know I love each and every one of you. If I was wrong in anything I said, please correct me.

 
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Yirmayahu on February 13, 2010, 07:48:16 PM
FYI, we do have alot of really great Catholic members here....I am a non Catholic Christian, but have had many Catholic friends over the years and some who also came OUT of Catholocism....I've met some really nice Catholics over the years....let us not hold anyone on this forum accountable for any of that, ok?

[/quote]

My whole purpose in responding to this thread was an appeal that people not lump Christians and Catholics together. There is no comparison just like the sun and the moon aren't the same; and the misdeeds of the RC Church in the past should not be called "Christian" misdeeds, just in the same way that the ills of the Mafia should not be ascribed to all Italian people. However, I am sure that what I have just said will be taken in a bad light, so this will be my last post in this particular thread.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: ~Hanna~ on February 13, 2010, 10:21:35 PM
ok.

FYI, we do have alot of really great Catholic members here....I am a non Catholic Christian, but have had many Catholic friends over the years and some who also came OUT of Catholocism....I've met some really nice Catholics over the years....let us not hold anyone on this forum accountable for any of that, ok?


My whole purpose in responding to this thread was an appeal that people not lump Christians and Catholics together. There is no comparison just like the sun and the moon aren't the same; and the misdeeds of the RC Church in the past should not be called "Christian" misdeeds, just in the same way that the ills of the Mafia should not be ascribed to all Italian people. However, I am sure that what I have just said will be taken in a bad light, so this will be my last post in this particular thread.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Rubystars on February 13, 2010, 10:25:59 PM
Thank you Yirma. I agree with you. However I think there are some Catholics who have truly been following the teachings of Christianity and are wonderful people. I don't consider all Catholics to be non-Christians.

However I'm not fond of the RCC itself or many of its doctrines. For example I personally would never pray to a saint statue (even if they're really asking the saint to pray WITH them, it still makes me uncomfortable). The leadership of the RCC has not made up for the evils of the past and still considers the popes who did these evil things to be holy and infallible people. I really think this is completely unacceptable. Also I think John Paul II was terrible for kissing a Qu'ran and saying that Islam is the closest religion to Christianity. What a joke! Benedict/Ratzinger isn't any better either.

So, while I respect and love our righteous Catholic members, I don't respect or love the RCC.

Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: nessuno on February 13, 2010, 10:35:58 PM
Why don't we burn all those pesky roman catholics at the stake? 
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Moshe92 on February 13, 2010, 10:40:58 PM
FYI, we do have alot of really great Catholic members here....I am a non Catholic Christian, but have had many Catholic friends over the years and some who also came OUT of Catholocism....I've met some really nice Catholics over the years....let us not hold anyone on this forum accountable for any of that, ok?



My whole purpose in responding to this thread was an appeal that people not lump Christians and Catholics together. There is no comparison just like the sun and the moon aren't the same; and the misdeeds of the RC Church in the past should not be called "Christian" misdeeds, just in the same way that the ills of the Mafia should not be ascribed to all Italian people. However, I am sure that what I have just said will be taken in a bad light, so this will be my last post in this particular thread.

I wouldn't single out Catholics. There are good and bad people from all different Christian denominations.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: john10001 on February 14, 2010, 02:10:46 AM
In history people who called themselves christians did cruel things like muslims do today if not worse than what the muslims do today.

However, christianity is capable of making gentiles be righteous and moral people if followed with the right heart.

Islam on the otherhand is a satanic religion which is the anti Jewish religion. Much like the chrisitians believe in a christ and antichrist. Islam never does good and it is a monotheistic religion which perverts righteousness and goodness and morality.

Christianity followed by the proper heart is not supposed to do that. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think as Christians we have to accept that in the past we have treated the Jews pretty badly to say the least.

I don't believe that you're wrong though. I believe anyone who follows the teaching of Christ is a Christian, "He who has my commandments, and obeys them, it is he who loves me" (John 14:21).

Anyone who claims to be Christian who goes around killing Muslims, Jews, and Protestants can hardly be called Christian. A Christian follows Christ, that's why they call them Christians. The principle that you follow should be the title that you hold. To be a Christian you must follow the Bible (all of the bible). And since the Bible does not promote the kind of violence that the Crusaders did, that the Nazis did, that the Spanish did, we must conclude that they did not follow good Christian principles. For that, they are responsible for their action, and not Christianity.

There have been many in the past who have killed innocent people, Jews, Muslims and others in the name of Christianity though. Who is to blame? Are they responsible as individuals for their actions? Are their superiors? Their nation? Their religion? How do we know they had a religion and followed it? What does their scriptures say about their actions?

Anyone who follows anything apart from the Bible cannot claim to be a Christian. It is my view that Mormons cannot claim to be Christians as they follow the false teachings of a deceived Joseph Smith that are in direct opposition to the Bible and what Jesus said taught and practiced during his lifetime, and what the prophets and apostles said and did. It is also my view that the Church of Rome is not the Church of G-d. Catholics and many other faith denominations calling themselves Christians have been deceived and are following church doctrine instead of the word of Christ and what the Bible says. Catholicism is almost a separate and distinct religion in its own right completely separate from the teachings of Christ and what the Bible says. Its more based around church doctrine, tradition, rituals and practices and what the Pope says.

As for Christianity or Islam, for me as a Christian its a no brainer. Their G-d is not our G-d. The teachings are diametrically opposed to each other so they simply can not be the same G-d. Only one can be truth.

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Matthew 1:7

Cheers,

John

Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Rubystars on February 14, 2010, 08:52:22 AM
Why don't we burn all those pesky roman catholics at the stake? 

The pesky ones seem to mostly be the leadership like the last couple of popes, not the nice average Catholic man or woman. You know that I respect you and other wonderful Catholic people.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Lisa on February 14, 2010, 09:02:09 AM
People, I don't want this thread to be about bashing Catholicism. 

It's one thing to not like what the RCC has done.  But remember, we have wonderful Catholic members here.  So let's try and keep it all respectful. 
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ on February 14, 2010, 09:13:38 AM
is it true that Church membership in US is declining? or is this left wing propaganda?
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Rubystars on February 14, 2010, 09:15:25 AM
is it true that Church membership in US is declining? or is this left wing propaganda?

I don't know but it seems like most people really don't care that much about religion.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on February 14, 2010, 09:58:24 AM
True that Martin Luther was a rabid anti-Jew and his thoughts about Jews might have been in the minds of holocaust perpetrators, but he wasn't directly involved in the holocaust whereas Popes and other Roman Catholics not only endorsed but participated in the Inquisition and all of the purges in Europe, and the Orthodox sanctioned the Pogroms in Russia there was direct involvement.
Yirma, how many devout Lutherans were in the Nazi army? How many followers of Martin Luther went out and killed Jews?

Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: cjd on February 14, 2010, 10:09:51 AM
The choice of using the word denomination in regard to lumping Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox doesn't really work. Denomination is a word chosen long ago by Roman Catholicism to describe Protestants. To nominate is to endorse and to denominate is to unendorse. In essence Roman Catholicism used it as a slap in the face toward Protestants, basically telling them that in the eyes of Rome, Protestants were null and void. The Vatican recognized the Orthodox religion so neither the RC or Orthodox Church fits into the denomination mold.

True that Martin Luther was a rabid anti-Jew and his thoughts about Jews might have been in the minds of holocaust perpetrators, but he wasn't directly involved in the holocaust whereas Popes and other Roman Catholics not only endorsed but participated in the Inquisition and all of the purges in Europe, and the Orthodox sanctioned the Pogroms in Russia there was direct involvement. From what I've studied, one cannot easily find cases (if they can find them at all) of Protestant churches sanctioning persecution. Of all of the true Christians that I have encountered (thousands) I've found them to be staunch Jewish and Israel supporters. Difference from the others? They read their Bibles and try to follow the words of their Messiah, Yeshua. Catholics and Orthodox fall short where that claim might be made in their regard. They follow church edicts and the commands of Popes and priests; the blind leading the blind so to speak.
Yirmayahu
Honestly when you get right down to brass tacks most of the so called denominations are an offshoot of the RCC or the Eastern Orthodox churches. Many of the offshoot churches had their starts after the middle ages which really was after much of the worse abuse happened. During WW2 I don't think there was any so called Christian church that went far out of its way to do much for the Jewish people.  The Pope sitting in the middle of an Axis country was not about to tangle with Hitler and risk having his church taken over by Nazi Germany. Italy was in no position as the war progressed to protect the Pope or Vatican City against Hitler.  Christian churches here in America talk up a good storm but actual deeds fall far short of rhetoric.... It was not the RCC here in America giving Jewish people a hard time because in many parts of the country Roman Catholics were getting the same treatment. Only in the past 50 years they like the RCC have decided to turn over a new leaf. More to the point proselytizing is not a pastime of Roman Catholics where it is one in many Christian churches here in America. I myself really don't go in for big religion of any denomination and find many of the conceptions held by Christian people writing in threads like this quite amusing. Most point the finger of abuse  towards Rome when in actuality there is plenty of blame to spread around for most of the Christian churches. Big churches = big abuse .... Smaller churches = smaller abuse.  Its just that simple  :::D
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: john10001 on February 17, 2010, 03:54:03 PM
Why don't we burn all those pesky roman catholics at the stake? 

The pesky ones seem to mostly be the leadership like the last couple of popes, not the nice average Catholic man or woman. You know that I respect you and other wonderful Catholic people.

I think you're right there. I liked John Paul II, I thought on the whole he was a good man and did a lot for europe and peace. He stood up against Nazism and Communism and provided a lot of hope for many people.

I've never been very impressed with any other popes though esp the present one.

I used to be a Catholic until very recently. I switched though because I found that I didn't believe a majority of teaching of the RCC. I just class myself as Christian now without a denomination though am probably closest to the Church of God, Int which is like a continuation of the very early church as set up by Jesus. I've been keeping Sabbath since April of last year and pretty much stopped being Catholic fully since around June. The only thing I haven't yet done is hand the official form in. I'm trying to just follow what the whole bible says now and keep all the commandments and feasts etc.

The main problem hasn't been the catholic people imho it's been the RCC/Church of Rome leadership for the last 1900 years.

Cheers,

John
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Moshe92 on February 17, 2010, 03:56:43 PM
I've been keeping Sabbath since April of last year and pretty much stopped being Catholic fully since around June.

Gentiles are not allowed to observe the Sabbath. That commandment is just for Jews.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: muman613 on February 17, 2010, 04:19:05 PM
Why don't we burn all those pesky roman catholics at the stake? 

The pesky ones seem to mostly be the leadership like the last couple of popes, not the nice average Catholic man or woman. You know that I respect you and other wonderful Catholic people.

I think you're right there. I liked John Paul II, I thought on the whole he was a good man and did a lot for europe and peace. He stood up against Nazism and Communism and provided a lot of hope for many people.

I've never been very impressed with any other popes though esp the present one.

I used to be a Catholic until very recently. I switched though because I found that I didn't believe a majority of teaching of the RCC. I just class myself as Christian now without a denomination though am probably closest to the Church of G-d, Int which is like a continuation of the very early church as set up by Jesus. I've been keeping Sabbath since April of last year and pretty much stopped being Catholic fully since around June. The only thing I haven't yet done is hand the official form in. I'm trying to just follow what the whole bible says now and keep all the commandments and feasts etc.

The main problem hasn't been the catholic people imho it's been the RCC/Church of Rome leadership for the last 1900 years.

Cheers,

John

Why?

You are not Jewish. The Commandments were given to the Jews at Sinai as a special covenant, not as something which the Noachide nations need to follow. What you are doing is not Jewish, nor is it Christian, you have made up your own religion... I don't know who taught you this.

You should follow the seven noachide laws and you will be considered a righteous gentile and have a place in the world to come. According to Jewish law you are committing a grave sin and would be liable for death...

Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: john10001 on February 17, 2010, 04:19:59 PM
is it true that Church membership in US is declining? or is this left wing propaganda?

I believe its mostly left wing atheist propaganda. They would very much like to class America as a secular country though. They already say my country Great Britain is secular but nothing could be further from the truth. I've even recently seen an answer to a question on Yahoo Answers from someone who believes that Israel of all places is a secular country! The majority of places that the atheists like to say are secular aren't secular either.

My country it is true that attendances at Church have dropped, however that certainly doesn't mean people no longer believe or that you're no longer practicing simply because you don't attend church regularly. Just over 70% of people in the UK still class themself as Christian. Jesus in the bible confirms to us to pray in private and not to go to Church just to be boastful and pray in public in front of everyone to look good (see Matthew 6). As followers we're all meant to be priests under our high priest. I do believe Church is important but it's meaning, significance and importance has been forgotten about. Not many people know and realise the true purpose of the Church.

Cheers,

John
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: muman613 on February 17, 2010, 04:22:07 PM
is it true that Church membership in US is declining? or is this left wing propaganda?

I believe its mostly left wing atheist propaganda. They would very much like to class America as a secular country though. They already say my country Great Britain is secular but nothing could be further from the truth. I've even recently seen an answer to a question on Yahoo Answers from someone who believes that Israel of all places is a secular country! The majority of places that the atheists like to say are secular aren't secular either.

My country it is true that attendances at Church have dropped, however that certainly doesn't mean people no longer believe or that you're no longer practicing simply because you don't attend church regularly. Just over 70% of people in the UK still class themself as Christian. Jesus in the bible confirms to us to pray in private and not to go to Church just to be boastful and pray in public in front of everyone to look good (see Matthew 6). As followers we're all meant to be priests under our high priest. I do believe Church is important but it's meaning, significance and importance has been forgotten about. Not many people know and realise the true purpose of the Church.

Cheers,

John

This is a Jewish forum and we frown on any missionising. There are ample resources for Christians to post about their religion. Although there are a good number of non-Jewish members of JTF our goal is to re-establish a Jewish holy land which will not accept the gods of others.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Irish Zionist on February 17, 2010, 04:56:33 PM
What about the Holocaust in Ireland commited by the Protestant English on The Irish Roman Catholics? It was either convert or die.

The choice of using the word denomination in regard to lumping Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox doesn't really work. Denomination is a word chosen long ago by Roman Catholicism to describe Protestants. To nominate is to endorse and to denominate is to unendorse. In essence Roman Catholicism used it as a slap in the face toward Protestants, basically telling them that in the eyes of Rome, Protestants were null and void. The Vatican recognized the Orthodox religion so neither the RC or Orthodox Church fits into the denomination mold.

True that Martin Luther was a rabid anti-Jew and his thoughts about Jews might have been in the minds of holocaust perpetrators, but he wasn't directly involved in the holocaust whereas Popes and other Roman Catholics not only endorsed but participated in the Inquisition and all of the purges in Europe, and the Orthodox sanctioned the Pogroms in Russia there was direct involvement. From what I've studied, one cannot easily find cases (if they can find them at all) of Protestant churches sanctioning persecution. Of all of the true Christians that I have encountered (thousands) I've found them to be staunch Jewish and Israel supporters. Difference from the others? They read their Bibles and try to follow the words of their Messiah, Yeshua. Catholics and Orthodox fall short where that claim might be made in their regard. They follow church edicts and the commands of Popes and priests; the blind leading the blind so to speak.
Yirmayahu
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: john10001 on February 17, 2010, 05:19:28 PM
I've been keeping Sabbath since April of last year and pretty much stopped being Catholic fully since around June.

Gentiles are not allowed to observe the Sabbath. That commandment is just for Jews.

Moshe,

Hi. I don't know where it says that but the bible I'm reading old and new testament, commandments directly from God, and also what Jesus did and practiced during his life I am meant to follow.

As a Christian I follow Christ, the whole bible and commandments of God, including the keeping of Sabbath which is what Jesus taught us to do.

You are correct that most Christians (gentiles) do not keep Sabbath, however we are meant to. The Christian Church from its foundation was originally a Sabbath keeping church. There are a small number of Christians that do though still keep sabbath and all the holy feasts, and remain true to what the bible says and what Jesus taught. The teachings in mainstream large Christian churches has not been to fully follow Christ or the bible, since after the first century they went down a different path and stopped keeping Sabbath and instead switched to Sunday and they also got rid of majority of things Jewish because of their hatred to the Jews. Our own scriptures tell us not to follow a false gospel though, unfortunately people were not able to read all the bible and in fact the Catholic Church prevented the bible being translated until very recent history and that is why many of us have been deceived. Our scriptures also confirm that we would be deceived that as Christians whom carry the very name of Christ we would be fooled.

"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible." (Matthew 24)

I believe anyone who follows the teaching of Christ is a Christian, "He who has my commandments, and obeys them, it is he who loves me" (John 14:21).

Jesus and all his apsotles were Jews and kept the biblical Sabbath and all the commandments of God, and therefore a true Christian is also meant to follow in the footsteps of who (in our belief) the messiah is, and what he taught part of which is to keep the Sabbath. Our own teachings from Christ and the whole of the new testament only reaffirm this to any Christian who reads the bible.

A Christian follows Christ, that's why they call us Christians. The principle that you follow should be the title that you hold. To be a Christian you must follow the Bible. If you follow Christ you must believe his word, the bible (all of the bible) and keep the Commandments of God. Anyone who follows anything apart from the Bible cannot claim to fully be a Christian.

Jesus himself confirmed that he had not come to abolish the old law of Moses and that it still fully applies and he had come to clarify and fulfill it, which is what I'm also meant to do as a follower of Christ.

There are still a number of prety major and fundemental difference from my new belief as a Christian and Jewish faith, Sabbath is not one of them though. I believe all Christians are supposed to keep Sabbath it says so in our bible, both old and new covenant. I believe also Samaritans are meant to, though I'm not as familar with their beliefs.

These are the basics of what I have believed for quite a long time though have only started following recently: http://www.cgi.org/our-beliefs/

And this is an explaination from my standpoint as a Christian as to why I am meant to keep sabbath: http://www.cgi.org/our-beliefs/booklets-brochures/the-questions-answers-book/qa-the-sabbath-holy-days/

In the book of Matthew and Luke, Jesus said:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Matthew 5:17

Jesus confirmed that the Law of Moses “The Old [Testament] and commandments” were to be observed and that he had not come to do away with them only to fulfil them.

Jesus was Jewish. The only book and law that Jesus was talking about was [the Tanach] the Tanakh and the commandments as that is what they had in their hand at the time, the New [Testament] had not yet been written. Jesus followed the Law during his life all Ten Commandments Gods Law handed down to Moses on Mount Sinai for all nations to abide by and confirmed that nothing would disappear from the law. The New [Testament] is different because it is for individuals not nations and how they should live their lives as individuals in relation to each other. The Old [Testament] and New [Testament] are both 100% valid The Whole Bible and is what Christians should follow.

The apostles of Christ clearly kept all the commandments and followed the Tanakh [Tanach] Law after Christ's death and they were not done away with. They still kept the Sabbath as a holy day and obeyed all the Tanakh [Tanach] rules in the early New [Testament] church, which you can read up on in the book of Acts.

Christians who believe the Tanakh [Tanach] has been done away with do not understand the difference between the Old and New [Testaments] and how they are both still 100% valid.

When I read the word of God and the teachings of Jesus and what he did during his life it only confirms that I clearly cannot go around breaking the Commandments stealing, blastpheming, worshipping false Gods and idols, breaking Sabbath etc.

Hope this helps explain my belief,

John

Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: john10001 on February 17, 2010, 05:23:29 PM
Why don't we burn all those pesky roman catholics at the stake? 

The pesky ones seem to mostly be the leadership like the last couple of popes, not the nice average Catholic man or woman. You know that I respect you and other wonderful Catholic people.

I think you're right there. I liked John Paul II, I thought on the whole he was a good man and did a lot for europe and peace. He stood up against Nazism and Communism and provided a lot of hope for many people.

I've never been very impressed with any other popes though esp the present one.

I used to be a Catholic until very recently. I switched though because I found that I didn't believe a majority of teaching of the RCC. I just class myself as Christian now without a denomination though am probably closest to the Church of G-d, Int which is like a continuation of the very early church as set up by Jesus. I've been keeping Sabbath since April of last year and pretty much stopped being Catholic fully since around June. The only thing I haven't yet done is hand the official form in. I'm trying to just follow what the whole bible says now and keep all the commandments and feasts etc.

The main problem hasn't been the catholic people imho it's been the RCC/Church of Rome leadership for the last 1900 years.

Cheers,

John

Why?

You are not Jewish. The Commandments were given to the Jews at Sinai as a special covenant, not as something which the Noachide nations need to follow. What you are doing is not Jewish, nor is it Christian, you have made up your own religion... I don't know who taught you this.

You should follow the seven noachide laws and you will be considered a righteous gentile and have a place in the world to come. According to Jewish law you are committing a grave sin and would be liable for death...



Muman,

See my reply to Moshe for full explanation. You are correct I am not Jewish. I am a Christian and follow Christ.

Cheers,

John

Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: john10001 on February 17, 2010, 05:29:40 PM
is it true that Church membership in US is declining? or is this left wing propaganda?

I believe its mostly left wing atheist propaganda. They would very much like to class America as a secular country though. They already say my country Great Britain is secular but nothing could be further from the truth. I've even recently seen an answer to a question on Yahoo Answers from someone who believes that Israel of all places is a secular country! The majority of places that the atheists like to say are secular aren't secular either.

My country it is true that attendances at Church have dropped, however that certainly doesn't mean people no longer believe or that you're no longer practicing simply because you don't attend church regularly. Just over 70% of people in the UK still class themself as Christian. Jesus in the bible confirms to us to pray in private and not to go to Church just to be boastful and pray in public in front of everyone to look good (see Matthew 6). As followers we're all meant to be priests under our high priest. I do believe Church is important but it's meaning, significance and importance has been forgotten about. Not many people know and realise the true purpose of the Church.

Cheers,

John

This is a Jewish forum and we frown on any missionising. There are ample resources for Christians to post about their religion. Although there are a good number of non-Jewish members of JTF our goal is to re-establish a Jewish holy land which will not accept the gods of others.


Mumam,

I was just repying to previous poster about Catholic people not being bad, and agreeing about it being left wing propaganda re church attendances (to do with Chrsitians so an on-topic respons???). Apologies if I have offended, I was not meant to be preaching to others, just replying to a post you asked about Christian church numbers?? I agree with your goals and support them. As a Christian I do not believe my God is a different God to the Jewish God, though I do know and realise that this is not the Jewish belief and that you will disagree.

Thanks,
John



Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Moshe92 on February 17, 2010, 05:36:37 PM
John, gentiles are not allowed to observe the sabbath according to the Talmud. In fact, it is punishable by the death penalty. The sabbath is a speical gift that G-d gave only to the Jews.

http://www.traditiononline.org/news/article.cfm?id=104943 (http://www.traditiononline.org/news/article.cfm?id=104943)
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: cjd on February 17, 2010, 05:44:29 PM
John, gentiles are not allowed to observe the sabbath according to the Talmud. In fact, it is punishable by the death penalty. The sabbath is a speical gift that G-d gave only to the Jews.

http://www.traditiononline.org/news/article.cfm?id=104943 (http://www.traditiononline.org/news/article.cfm?id=104943)
Not that I disagree with you about Gentiles observing the Jewish Sabbath but who would carry out the death penalty? Some Christian churches observe the sabbath day on Saturday now so this might be what John is talking about and not the Jewish Sabbath per say.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: Rubystars on February 17, 2010, 06:31:43 PM
John, gentiles are not allowed to observe the sabbath according to the Talmud. In fact, it is punishable by the death penalty. The sabbath is a speical gift that G-d gave only to the Jews.

http://www.traditiononline.org/news/article.cfm?id=104943 (http://www.traditiononline.org/news/article.cfm?id=104943)

The fact that the Talmud teaches that this practice is for Jews only and not for Gentiles shouldn't have anything to do with how other people who don't believe in the Talmud practice their religion. Let Noahides who voluntarily fall under these rules but don't try to impose it on Christians.

We have freedom of religion here in the United States. Would you intend to change that and impose a death penalty on people who follow religious practices just because they contradict your beliefs? Many Christians believe in resting one day a week, some on Saturday and some on Sunday. This isn't practiced much anymore but it's still part of Christian belief.

Less religious people like me don't always do it but Christians believe it's the right thing to do even if we don't do it.

I wanted to add something to my previous posts. I think many Catholics are great Christian people but I just don't like the leadership of the RCC much. I hope my posts didn't come off as an attack on Catholics themselves. Many of my relatives on my dad's side of the family were Catholics.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: New Yorker on February 17, 2010, 06:51:43 PM


Okay, who is the joker that voted for Islam?
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: TruthSpreader on February 17, 2010, 06:53:31 PM


Okay, who is the joker that voted for Islam?

That's what I wanna know.
Title: Re: Christianity or Islam?
Post by: ~Hanna~ on February 17, 2010, 07:17:27 PM
One of the trolls here. We always have some...