JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dawntreader on May 03, 2007, 11:55:16 PM
-
I think this is a serious subject here.
From what I have seen, Kahanism is a very fractious movement. Unless there is a massive effort on the part of the leaders, and of the rank and file, neither the JTF, Yekutiel's people, or Revava or any other so-called Kahanist group will become a mass movement the way Chaim wants to see happen.
There has been far too much bickering and fighting over who is a good Kahanist vs. who is a turncoat or informer etc.
There needs to be some forgiveness and coming together or this movement is sadly not going to go anywhere.
UNLESS:
A majority of people get so sick of the leftists and their destructive policies that they just decide to elect Kahanists by default.
We all need to check our behavior towards one another.
-
Quickly,
I have to say that although I believe we should not defame Baruch Marzel in any way, shape or form...I DO think that he was wrong to dissuade anyone dissatisfied with Olmert from going to the anti-government rally in Tel Aviv.
I read that 35 people WALKED all the way (45 miles!) from Sderot to Tel Aviv for the rally....
If people are willing to walk so far to say "Remove this aweful man from office!"
Baruch Marzel should have been in the forefront screaming for Olmert's removal himself.
-
I've been saying this for years. Yukutiel has the same idea. He's they guy on kahane.org and is willing to unite with everyone.
-
Re: "...From what I have seen, Kahanism is a very fractious movement..."
It's not a Kahanism thing...it's a Jew thing.
We Jews are a most contentious people.
We are our own worst enemies.
An age-old adage correctly suggests "All you have to do to destroy the Jewish People, is to leave them alone."
Rabbi Kahane so perfectly described us: "A Jew is a person who won't carry an umbrella when it's raining, until they've already caught pneumonia."
Our ancient Sages wrote that it was our own infighting which brought about the Destruction of the Second Temple and Jerusalem.
Former Prime Minister of Israel Golda Meir said that her job was the most difficult in the world...attempting to govern a nation where each citizen believed themself to be the Prime Minister.
-
Why should we unite with Marzel and his people, and Yekutiel and his people, when all they do is seek to sabotage Chaim ben Pesach?
I'm tired of playing nice with them. This is where the action is, HERE AT JTF. Chaim ben Pesach is the only person who will make this thing work, so we have to devote all our energies to helping him, and we must crush the traitors and informers.
-
STOP PUTTING YUKUTIEL IN WITH REVAVA. He is a genuine Kahanist leader and is the most respected Kahanist leader in Israel. Yukutiel never said anything bad about Chaim. He s a uniter and he doesn't say anything bad about anyone. That's why I like him. It took him a lot just to say very mildly that Haivri informed on him. He said that he wants to work together with JTF and when Chaim moves to Israel, Yukutiel said that he's willing to unite with Chaim.
-
STOP PUTTING YUKUTIEL IN WITH REVAVA. He is a genuine Kahanist leader and is the most respected Kahanist leader in Israel. Yukutiel never said anything bad about Chaim. He s a uniter and he doesn't say anything bad about anyone. That's why I like him. It took him a lot just to say very mildly that Haivri informed on him. He said that he wants to work together with JTF and when Chaim moves to Israel, Yukutiel said that he's willing to unite with Chaim.
Yekutiel may be a fine person but his organization is a joke. A joke! Look at what Chaim has put together from New York City!
-
Yukutiel is a die hard Kahanist and has die hard programs. He is no joke. He's also the most recognized Kahane leader of today and is the most humble. Who appealed to the US supreme court about kahane chai and Kach, it was him since he's the recognized leader! Who does all the new Kahanist organizations go to for support? To Yukutiel.
-
Yukutiel is a die hard Kahanist and has die hard programs. He is no joke. He's also the most recognized Kahane leader of today and is the most humble. Who appealed to the US supreme court about kahane chai and Kach, it was him since he's the recognized leader! Who does all the new Kahanist organizations go to for support? To Yukutiel.
Yekutiel is a die-hard Kahanist like I was a die-hard little leaguer.
When I made the all-star team as a 13 year-old, I always tried my hardest, everybody on my team thought I was great, but in all actuality, I was a [censored] baseball player.
-
Yukutiel is a die hard Kahanist and has die hard programs. He is no joke. He's also the most recognized Kahane leader of today and is the most humble. Who appealed to the US supreme court about kahane chai and Kach, it was him since he's the recognized leader! Who does all the new Kahanist organizations go to for support? To Yukutiel.
Yekutiel is a die-hard Kahanist like I was a die-hard little leaguer.
When I made the all-star team as a 13 year-old, I always tried my hardest, everybody on my team thought I was great, but in all actuality, I was a [censored] baseball player.
I don't know where you got a bad impression about Yukutiel but you are wrong. He is leading the Kahane movement in Israel and hasn't deviated from the genuine path of R' Kahane for all these years. He was R' Kahane's right hand man in Israel and was also R' Kahane's son's right hand man. He sat in Jail in the 80's in Israel for some JDL activity or something (someone fill in the details). He is the only real Kahanist leader in Israel today and is leading the movement there. They fear him so much that they made his site and organization illegal. They confiscate his property and businesses, arrest him all the time and he's still going strong. He trains guard dogs for settlements and they have saved many Jewish lives. He builds settlements/hilltops in Israel. He has a learning program going and is building a Kahanist Yeshiva. Recently he led real attention grabbing protests for Pollard where he blocked traffic and got arrested. This is just a partial list I made of some of the stuff he does.
-
Yukutiel is a die hard Kahanist and has die hard programs. He is no joke. He's also the most recognized Kahane leader of today and is the most humble. Who appealed to the US supreme court about kahane chai and Kach, it was him since he's the recognized leader! Who does all the new Kahanist organizations go to for support? To Yukutiel.
Yekutiel is a die-hard Kahanist like I was a die-hard little leaguer.
When I made the all-star team as a 13 year-old, I always tried my hardest, everybody on my team thought I was great, but in all actuality, I was a [censored] baseball player.
I don't know where you got a bad impression about Yukutiel but you are wrong. He is leading the Kahane movement in Israel and hasn't deviated from the genuine path of R' Kahane for all these years. He was R' Kahane's right hand man in Israel and was also R' Kahane's son's right hand man. He sat in Jail in the 80's in Israel for some JDL activity or something (someone fill in the details). He is the only real Kahanist leader in Israel today and is leading the movement their. They fear him so much that they made his site and organization illegal. They confiscate his property and businesses, arrest him all the time and he's still going strong. He trains guard dogs for settlements and they have saved many Jewish lives. He builds settlements/hilltops in Israel. He has a learning program going and is building a Kahanist Yeshiva. Recently he led real attention grabbing protests for Pollard where he blocked traffic and got arrested. This is just a partial list I made of some of the stuff he does.
That is well and good but he is not building a movement that can reach the Knesset. That was Rabbi Kahane's purpose and only Chaim seems to recognize this.
-
Trumbeldor, you do know that Yekutiel and Noam Federman are working together now?
-
Trumbeldor, you do know that Yekutiel and Noam Federman are working together now?
I did not know that. If that is true, that is good.
-
Trumbeldor, you do know that Yekutiel and Noam Federman are working together now?
I did not know that. If that is true, that is good.
Yes, Yekutiel is setting up a training camp on Noam's ranch to start.
-
Yacov, I didn't say that Chaim and Federman are not great Kahane leaders. I was saying as far as Israel goes, Yukutiel is the most veteran and most respected leader living in Israel. Chaim is the most veteran and respected Kahanist leader living in the US and has a great movement going with the Hebrew program. But Yukutiel is still the king fish of Israel. When Chaim moves there then it will be a bet on who is the bigger fish in Israel.
And as far as the Keneset, no Kahanist leader will ever get elected to the Kenesset under the current Bolshevik regime. EVER. You think they would ever let Chaim be the PM or that he'll ever be the PM? Never. (Yakov, does he really think he'll be PM???). R' Kahane gave up on this when they banned him. The only thing that would change Israel is a major revolution. Hopefully we get a Kahanist revolution going.
-
Trumbeldor, you do know that Yekutiel and Noam Federman are working together now?
I did not know that. If that is true, that is good.
Federman got a guard dog from Yekutiel.
It is no longer a Kach vs. Kahane Chai thing. It is a State of Judea supporters vs. Establishment fraud thing. Federman believes in separatism. Yekutiel held a State of Judea conference. Chaim says this is a valid opinion and that is why he allows Federman to say we shouldn't take part in Israeli elections on his JTF program. HaIvri works with the local council against Yekutiel. Marzel made a deal with the army to evacuate Jews from a home they bought in Hebron.
I love Federman but he needs to have more faith in Chaim.
-
I happen to think a well run political party even if they arent in the Knesset is worthwhile in that the party apparatus allows for so many activities that can be centrally run. So in this I think a party is worthwhile though I am not very happy with any of the current parties :(
Trumbeldor, you do know that Yekutiel and Noam Federman are working together now?
I did not know that. If that is true, that is good.
Federman got a guard dog from Yekutiel.
It is no longer a Kach vs. Kahane Chai thing. It is a State of Judea supporters vs. Establishment fraud thing. Federman believes in separatism. Yekutiel held a State of Judea conference. Chaim says this is a valid opinion and that is why he allows Federman to say we shouldn't take part in Israeli elections on his JTF program. HaIvri works with the local council against Yekutiel. Marzel made a deal with the army to evacuate Jews from a home they bought in Hebron.
I love Federman but he needs to have more faith in Chaim.
What do you mean?
-
I happen to think a well run political party even if they arent in the Knesset is worthwhile in that the party apparatus allows for so many activities that can be centrally run. So in this I think a party is worthwhile though I am not very happy with any of the current parties :(
Trumbeldor, you do know that Yekutiel and Noam Federman are working together now?
I did not know that. If that is true, that is good.
Federman got a guard dog from Yekutiel.
It is no longer a Kach vs. Kahane Chai thing. It is a State of Judea supporters vs. Establishment fraud thing. Federman believes in separatism. Yekutiel held a State of Judea conference. Chaim says this is a valid opinion and that is why he allows Federman to say we shouldn't take part in Israeli elections on his JTF program. HaIvri works with the local council against Yekutiel. Marzel made a deal with the army to evacuate Jews from a home they bought in Hebron.
I love Federman but he needs to have more faith in Chaim.
What do you mean?
You can't freakin' separate without a mass movement!
-
I dont disagree but what does that have to do with Chaim?
Also I am not so wild about the idea of a separate state, even though many Jews drive me crazy they are still our brothers, I dont want a rift even greater then what exists to arise, and even if they are too crazy to save themselves we cant abandon them.
-
I dont disagree but what does that have to do with Chaim?
Also I am not so wild about the idea of a separate state, even though many Jews drive me crazy they are still our brothers, I dont want a rift even greater then what exists to arise, and even if they are too crazy to save themselves we cant abandon them.
I'm actually for all of the approaches. I think we should try to have a central movement to try to get into the Kenesset (which won't happen in my opinion, but it doesn't hurt to try some more). I also think we should have a movement to create a Separate State. I think we should also have revolutionary movements like the Malchut Yisrael one R' Friedman might run if the deal goes through. The more effort and the more Kahanist programs, the greater the likelihood of one of them succeeding.
-
But they will destroy our land. So why can't we keep it and have our own state there?
Hey, that battle is lost there. Many people including myself think that it will take a revolution to get a Kahanist leader in Israel and we don't want to wait until it is too late for that to happen. Having a tiny separate state on a few settlements even for a few months before we get thrown out by the Bolshevicks will spearhead a revolutionary Kahanist movement and will accelerate Kahanists taking power in Israel as well.
-
Yukutiel is a die hard Kahanist and has die hard programs. He is no joke. He's also the most recognized Kahane leader of today and is the most humble. Who appealed to the US supreme court about kahane chai and Kach, it was him since he's the recognized leader! Who does all the new Kahanist organizations go to for support? To Yukutiel.
Yekutiel is a die-hard Kahanist like I was a die-hard little leaguer.
When I made the all-star team as a 13 year-old, I always tried my hardest, everybody on my team thought I was great, but in all actuality, I was a [censored] baseball player.
I don't know where you got a bad impression about Yukutiel but you are wrong. He is leading the Kahane movement in Israel and hasn't deviated from the genuine path of R' Kahane for all these years. He was R' Kahane's right hand man in Israel and was also R' Kahane's son's right hand man. He sat in Jail in the 80's in Israel for some JDL activity or something (someone fill in the details). He is the only real Kahanist leader in Israel today and is leading the movement their. They fear him so much that they made his site and organization illegal. They confiscate his property and businesses, arrest him all the time and he's still going strong. He trains guard dogs for settlements and they have saved many Jewish lives. He builds settlements/hilltops in Israel. He has a learning program going and is building a Kahanist Yeshiva. Recently he led real attention grabbing protests for Pollard where he blocked traffic and got arrested. This is just a partial list I made of some of the stuff he does.
That is well and good but he is not building a movement that can reach the Knesset. That was Rabbi Kahane's purpose and only Chaim seems to recognize this.
He tried that with Kahane Chai. Rav Binyamin wanted Yekutiel to lead Kahane Chai, but Yekutiel doesnt care about power, he wanted Rav Meir's son to lead. He tried with Kahane Chai and it was banned. If he makes a new party under the real Kahanist Ideaology, he will be banned again. That is why Rav Meirs book is called Israel: Revolution, or Referendum. - the only way a change can happen in Israel. Democrazy wont work. But I believe that we should still vote in the mean time before the Revolution or referendum happenens.
-
Trumbeldor, you do know that Yekutiel and Noam Federman are working together now?
I did not know that. If that is true, that is good.
Federman got a guard dog from Yekutiel.
It is no longer a Kach vs. Kahane Chai thing. It is a State of Judea supporters vs. Establishment fraud thing. Federman believes in separatism. Yekutiel held a State of Judea conference. Chaim says this is a valid opinion and that is why he allows Federman to say we shouldn't take part in Israeli elections on his JTF program. HaIvri works with the local council against Yekutiel. Marzel made a deal with the army to evacuate Jews from a home they bought in Hebron.
Not true about Marzel. I know the person who paid for the "shalom house" in Hebron.
-
But there is no difference between Marzel's Hazit forum and HaIvri's Revava forum. In fact, the Hazit forum is even worse. Their administrator says Ashkenazic Jews deserved The Holocaust because they were "traitors to Germany just like Ashkenazic Jews in Israel" and then accuses Chaim of saying that as well.
Rav Binyamin talks about reasons for the Holocaust. See his pamphlet Confronting the Holocaust. He says that the Holocaust was punishment. There cannot be punishment without sin. Before people jump down my throats for writing this, I will elaborate tommorow.
-
I dont know anything about Roni or the Hazit forum. What happened with them? And I didnt say not being loyal to the Germans was thier sin
-
I don't believe in the need for a separate State of Judea. I believe we have Israel...it is enough. We should be working day and night to save our homeland and people. Ditching Israel in favor of a separate State is defeatist in my opinion.
I also do not hold with any type of revolution. We should not be doing anything to harm our fellow Jews.
On the other hand...I think if a government tries to remove Jews from our G-d given land, then it would be appropriate to fight back against those who would remove them. I don't believe in killing...but I would for sure break a few bones and blacken some eyes.
I agree that it would be in JTF and the whole Kahane movement to consolidate and work together with Yekutiel and Noam Federman. Coordination together with them could bring about greater results FASTER than we are seeing already.
It's possible results will happen ANYWAY, but again...working together with them on a regular basis will provide faster results I believe.
-
Completely agree with JRLD4ever - Yekutiel is an honourable man and is a heroic and great Jew!
Yukutiel is a die hard Kahanist and has die hard programs. He is no joke. He's also the most recognized Kahane leader of today and is the most humble. Who appealed to the US supreme court about kahane chai and Kach, it was him since he's the recognized leader! Who does all the new Kahanist organizations go to for support? To Yukutiel.
Yekutiel is a die-hard Kahanist like I was a die-hard little leaguer.
When I made the all-star team as a 13 year-old, I always tried my hardest, everybody on my team thought I was great, but in all actuality, I was a [censored] baseball player.
I don't know where you got a bad impression about Yukutiel but you are wrong. He is leading the Kahane movement in Israel and hasn't deviated from the genuine path of R' Kahane for all these years. He was R' Kahane's right hand man in Israel and was also R' Kahane's son's right hand man. He sat in Jail in the 80's in Israel for some JDL activity or something (someone fill in the details). He is the only real Kahanist leader in Israel today and is leading the movement there. They fear him so much that they made his site and organization illegal. They confiscate his property and businesses, arrest him all the time and he's still going strong. He trains guard dogs for settlements and they have saved many Jewish lives. He builds settlements/hilltops in Israel. He has a learning program going and is building a Kahanist Yeshiva. Recently he led real attention grabbing protests for Pollard where he blocked traffic and got arrested. This is just a partial list I made of some of the stuff he does.
-
I also don't agree with a separate state of Judea as it is not practical at all. We do need to convert Israel into a true Kahanist country. THe state of Judea will only alienate the non religious jews who would support us anyways. Just because they don't like kahanism now doesn't mean they won't support our policies in the future. As Chaim said in the past, the Agudah types have destroyed and seperated these jews from us. When the kahanists take over the non religious will once again want the arabs thrown out.
-
I also don't agree with a separate state of Judea as it is not practical at all. We do need to convert Israel into a true Kahanist country. THe state of Judea will only alienate the non religious jews who would support us anyways. Just because they don't like kahanism now doesn't mean they won't support our policies in the future. As Chaim said in the past, the Agudah types have destroyed and seperated these jews from us. When the kahanists take over the non religious will once again want the arabs thrown out.
Chaim said that the only way to get at the hearts of the non-religious Jews or "semi-religious" Jews by changing the media and education systems gradually. Revolutions only lead to failures. Extreme changes lead to failures. Alienation leads to failure. Chaim wants jtf to become a legitimate movement and not a fringe radical looking movement.