JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: White Israelite on April 20, 2010, 04:51:31 PM
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I can't speak too much about Timothy Mcveigh, all I remember is that he was executed when I was still in Middle School and I remember the media making a big deal out of it claiming that he was a Neo Nazi and a white supremacist that blew up a government building because of his hatred for the government, and I remember the day he was put to death but other than that, I can't find any proof that he was actually a Neo Nazi other than some statements were made that he supposedly attended a KKK rally wearing a shirt that said "white power" to counter blacks that had shirts on that said "black power". It also states that he was at gun shows comparing the Waco Siege to the Warsaw uprising that the government was fascist.
Granted the guy sounds like he was paranoid of the government and their attempts to infringe on the constitution and gun rights. I don't think taking innocent lives for whatever reason is justified, but is it possible the media is trying to spin him as something he's not as a scapegoat? I've noticed many liberals and communists use Timothy Mcveigh as a scapegoat to claim that there are "Christian Terrorists" as they put it or to attempt to restrict gun rights in reference to the Michigan Militia.
McVeigh told Fortier of his plans to blow up a federal building, but Fortier declined to participate. Fortier also told his wife about the plans.[34] McVeigh composed two letters to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, the first titled "Constitutional Defenders" and the second "ATF Read." He denounced government agents as "fascist tyrants" and "storm troopers" and warned:
ATF, all you tyrannical mother fuckers will swing in the wind one day for your treasonous actions against the Constitution of the United States. Remember the Nuremberg War Trials. [2]
McVeigh also wrote a letter of recruitment to a customer named Steve Colbern:
A man with nothing left to lose is a very dangerous man and his energy/anger can be focused toward a common/righteous goal. What I'm asking you to do, then, is sit back and be honest with yourself. Do you have kids/wife? Would you back out at the last minute to care for the family? Are you interested in keeping your firearms for their current/future monetary value, or would you drag that '06 through rock, swamp and cactus...to get off the needed shot? In short, I'm not looking for talkers, I'm looking for fighters...And if you are a fed, think twice. Think twice about the Constitution you are supposedly enforcing (isn't "enforcing freedom" an oxymoron?) and think twice about catching us with our guard down – you will lose just like Degan did – and your family will lose.[35]
Here is more information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_mcveigh
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I don't know if he was a Nazi, but he was obviously a very deranged person. What bothers me is how leftists always cite this incident as an example of "right wing terrorism" and say that this case shows that Muslims are no more dangerous than white guys named Timothy.
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Some people believe there's a Middle Eastern connection to the OKC bombing.
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I'm not going to say anything about the bombing because I don't have enough information about it, but it reminds me of the stuff that happened in Ruby Ridge and Waco and I know that the people at Waco were wrongly murdered by federal agents and Attorney General Janet Reno.
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I don't think there is such a thing as 'rightwing terrorism'.
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He was evil and killed a lot of innocent americans. To me he is just as bad as the 911 bombers
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Timothy McVeigh (yemach shemo vezichro) was a terrorist/mass murderer. He is burning in hell for what he did.
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Timothy McVeigh (yemach shemo vezichro) was a terrorist/mass murderer. He is burning in hell for what he did.
There's a huge difference between Mcvey terrorism and Islamofascist terrorism. In America, Mcvey is a lunatic wacko out of 300 million people, in Islamofiscist countries, a terrorist is a celebrated end result of institutional brainwashing.
One is shunned, the other is championed. Mcvey didnt learn his wacko ideas from his school or his church; he was a lone wacko, who sought lunatic ideologies and was completely deranged. SImilar to the Ohm supreme truth leader in Japan who killed all those citizens in the Japanese subway.
In Saudi Arabia, the terrorist learns everything from his wahabi institutions, schools, and other Islamic sources. When a Islamoterrorist acheives his goals, his family is honored, and often even paid.
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By the way, IT IS NOT A COINCIDENCE THAT THE LIBERAL PROPGANDA MACHINE KEEP BRINGING UP HIS NAME NOW!!!!
Liberals want to paint Mcvey as just another Tea-Partier. Someone who is indcotrinated by Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'reily. THIS is why we are suddenly seeing Mcvey's name come up over and over again. Because this is stage 2, of the Liberal propoganda machine. stage 1, was to show that Tea Partiers are Nazis. Stage 2 is to show that the Tea-Parties ultimate goal is terrorism.
I'm not being overly dramatic, this is whats going on; so lets not fall for it.
This is not about truth. As Goebells once said, if you say a lie over and over again, eventually, it becomes the truth.
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Timothy McVeigh was a decorated Gulf War I veteran, and he was selected by General Norman "Stormin' Norman" Schwarzkopf to serve as his personal attendant and guard.
And, yes, Lisa, there is a great deal of evidence linking both Al-Qaeda in the Phillipines as well as a neo-Nazi agent provocateur from Germany working in the Pacific Northwest.
Ever wonder why Atty. General Ashcroft was in such a hurry to execute him...thus ensuring that 'there would be no more testimony from key witnesses' in the case?
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Timothy McVeigh was a decorated Gulf War I veteran, and he was selected by General Norman "Stormin' Norman" Schwarzkopf to serve as his personal attendant and guard.
And, yes, Lisa, there is a great deal of evidence linking both Al-Qaeda in the Phillipines as well as a neo-Nazi agent provocateur from Germany working in the Pacific Northwest.
Ever wonder why Atty. General Ashcroft was in such a hurry to execute him...thus ensuring that 'there would be no more testimony from key witnesses' in the case?
While these connections ARE in the realm of possibility, there is simply no credible evidence that he was working for Al Queda. If we all choose to believe connections like this, we are no better than the Muslims and Nazis that make connections about zionisms/Jews that are completely groundless. Sorry for being a wet blanket here.
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He was evil and killed a lot of innocent americans. To me he is just as bad as the 911 bombers
Bingo, not to mention he was a fan of the "Turner Diaries" which is basically a neo Nazi wet dream novel. The Randy Weaver incident was interesting. I was very torn between a guy whose wife was murdered by overreaching government agents and a guy who is an idiot Jew hater. I think what was done to him was wrong but it could not have happened to a nicer guy. One of McVeigh's grievances was Ruby Ridge and Weaver.
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I was going to mention the Turner Diaries thing too but Secularbeliever beat me to it. Nobody who is not a rabid Jew-hater would enjoy that American Koran.
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briann: "If we all choose to believe connections like this, we are no better than the Muslims and Nazis that make connections about zionisms/Jews that are completely groundless. Sorry for being a wet blanket here."
Hey, briann...the only thing I believe in is G-D.
As for Al-Qaeda connections, there is a highly respected lady journalist from Oklahoma City who's researched the subject for over ten years and seems to have have documented a lot more facts about this incident than you are able to offer.
If you find that [to paraphrase your words above] "if we believe this we are no better than Muslims and Nazis that make connections about zionisms/Jews that are completely groundless"
Completely groundless?...Fully documented trips to meet Muslim terrorists in the Phillipines by Nichols and McVeigh are "groundless" to you?
McVeigh's meetings and visits with white neo-Nazis living in a compound called "E.l.o.h.i.m. City", all the suspects under surveillance and being directed by a German neo-Nazi double agent working for American and German intelligence agencies... this is "groundless"?
I suggest you do a lot more research and reading.
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http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/04/mcveigh-mania.html
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Re: "...I think what was done to him was wrong but it could not have happened to a nicer guy. One of McVeigh's grievances was Ruby Ridge and Weaver."
What was done to Weaver was criminal, because as an American citizen he has the right to hate anyone or anything, as well as the right to speak and write his opinions publicly. The Constitution as well guarantees our freedom of association. If Weaver or others prefer no association with those of other religions and races, and has no desires other than to be left alone to pursue his own happiness and raise his family as he sees fit, then what business is it of ours to interfere with him so long as he obeys the law?
A citizen, however, does not have the right to deprive other citizens of their exact same rights, nor does a citizen have the right to act out feelings of violence or hatred against others.
If our government, without due process of law, can destroy lives and kill people simply because of their beliefs (and, yes, the U.S. Government has a history of such abuses), then the same abuses can be turned against American Jews simply for being Jews. If that day comes, there will be no one to defend us or stand with us, for we live in a country where our younger generations readily accept and acquiese to murder, rape, sexual perversion, and corruption.
The issue is not Weaver's personal views.
In fact, my opinion is that Jews and others can trust Weaver and those like him, because he tells us exactly what he believes and thinks, and he does so right to our face. We know where he stands at all times. Such an individual is far more trustworthy and worthy of our respect than is someone who will say anything to us but doesn't mean a single word of it.
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Re: "...I think what was done to him was wrong but it could not have happened to a nicer guy. One of McVeigh's grievances was Ruby Ridge and Weaver."
What was done to Weaver was criminal, because as an American citizen he has the right to hate anyone or anything, as well as the right to speak and write his opinions publicly. The Constitution as well guarantees our freedom of association. If Weaver or others prefer no association with those of other religions and races, and has no desires other than to be left alone to pursue his own happiness and raise his family as he sees fit, then what business is it of ours to interfere with him so long as he obeys the law?
A citizen, however, does not have the right to deprive other citizens of their exact same rights, nor does a citizen have the right to act out feelings of violence or hatred against others.
If our government, without due process of law, can destroy lives and kill people simply because of their beliefs (and, yes, the U.S. Government has a history of such abuses), then the same abuses can be turned against American Jews simply for being Jews. If that day comes, there will be no one to defend us or stand with us, for we live in a country where our younger generations readily accept and acquiese to murder, rape, sexual perversion, and corruption.
The issue is not Weaver's personal views.
In fact, my opinion is that Jews and others can trust Weaver and those like him, because he tells us exactly what he believes and thinks, and he does so right to our face. We know where he stands at all times. Such an individual is far more trustworthy and worthy of our respect than is someone who will say anything to us but doesn't mean a single word of it.
Great post.
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Timothy McVeigh was a decorated Gulf War I veteran, and he was selected by General Norman "Stormin' Norman" Schwarzkopf to serve as his personal attendant and guard.
And, yes, Lisa, there is a great deal of evidence linking both Al-Qaeda in the Phillipines as well as a neo-Nazi agent provocateur from Germany working in the Pacific Northwest.
Ever wonder why Atty. General Ashcroft was in such a hurry to execute him...thus ensuring that 'there would be no more testimony from key witnesses' in the case?
While these connections ARE in the realm of possibility, there is simply no credible evidence that he was working for Al Queda. If we all choose to believe connections like this, we are no better than the Muslims and Nazis that make connections about zionisms/Jews that are completely groundless. Sorry for being a wet blanket here.
I am sure like most issues the government puts its hand on the entire actual story will never be known. I read through McVeigh's wickedpedia page last night to refresh my memory about him. Passing out leaflets and demonstrating against the government is one thing however taking out an entire office building at 9am in the morning is entirely another. This guy wanted to take out a great deal of people which makes him nothing more then a cold blooded killer. I could see the issues that got this guy twisted up but the sad fact is his actions can just not be justified. I think Brian is correct when he says that McVeigh is being resurrected to discredit the Tea Party Movement. I also have to agree with MassuhD when he says that there may have been an neo-Nazi agent provocateur working in the Pacific Northwest with Al-Qaeda connections in the picture. As with most things like this the amount of disinformation issued pollutes the actual facts to the point that its hard to tell fact from fiction. As I remember in the end McVeigh wanted to be put to death which really was the best thing for himself and also for society in general.
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Randy Weaver was an alleged Aryan Nation supremacist... My impression is that he was not a friend to the Jewish cause...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Weaver
PS: I realize wiki is not the best place to research this event but it presents a simple view of the facts...
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What Timothy McVeigh was is much less important than how he is being used by the mainstream media to demonize conservatives and all those who don't like the way the government is being run.
McVeigh is dead and gone (which is good, he deserved to be executed for what he did to innocent people). What is not dead and gone is the demonization of those who believe in traditional values as somehow being a threat to homeland security.
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Randy Weaver was an alleged Aryan Nation supremacist... My impression is that he was not a friend to the Jewish cause...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Weaver
PS: I realize wiki is not the best place to research this event but it presents a simple view of the facts...
Weaver was and is a Jew hater. He actually blames Zionists for what happened to him. As if the FBI under George HW Bush was controlled by Jews.
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Wikipedia is about as good a source of accurate information as Britannica, the venerable standard-bearer of facts about the world around us, according to a study published in the journal Nature.
from: http://news.cnet.com/Study-Wikipedia-as-accurate-as-Britannica/2100-1038_3-5997332.html
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Re: "Weaver was and is a Jew hater. He actually blames Zionists for what happened to him.
The same can be said for most Members of the Israeli Knesset!
:::D
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I remember the initial reports vividly. They reported that 2 middle eastern men were seen leaving the scene. There were also reports that McVeigh was seen with 2 other Middle eastern looking men. There also was a "leg" dressed in cammo material that could never be identified as to who it belonged to.
The crime scene was so quickly bulldozed "for the public good and so the healing could begin" that some claim a thorough investigation of the crime scene was impossible.
McVeigh was convicted and put to death so quickly, I believe it was to keep him quiet while he wasn't talking. I never understood why everything went so quickly.
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Let's not whitewash history through the normal amnesia that occurs through time. This man and his cohorts were scum. They wanted to destroy this nation and were enemies of America
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Re: "This man and his cohorts were scum. They wanted to destroy this nation and were enemies of America."
The same can be said about our current President, and all but a handful of Democrats and Republicans!
;D
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McVeigh was convicted and put to death so quickly, I believe it was to keep him quiet while he wasn't talking. I never understood why everything went so quickly.<<
He was tried in the federal system so there are many fewer appeals. Plus it was still 6 years from the crime to the execution. That is short by death penalty standards but hardly unreasonable.
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McVeigh was a follower of neo-Nazi William Pierce through his book "The Turner Diaries". Fortunately, William Pierce died of cancer. :jump:
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I don't think we'll ever know if Mcveigh was a Nazi sympathizer. I don't know if he hated our people. I do know that aside from Weaver, Mcveigh was frustrated at how the US Government made war against the Davidians. There were many reports against David Koresh and there was testimony that these charges were not true. I think that we should all study how Janet Reno and her boss Klinton conspired to send a message to all religious people in the US; that they better watch themselves and not become anti-government or the same could happen to them. It never seems to amaze me that these sort of things happen when there are Demoncrats in office and these demoncrats have attorney generals that look like they would fit in just fine in the Gay Pride Parade in San Francisco. What I could never understand about Mcveigh's actions is his timing. He could have sent the same message that he sent if he would have blown up the Federal building in the middle of the night and he would have spared all of those innocent lives. So, for the murders that he committed, he deserved to die, but for the ultimate message that he was trying to send to the government, and the people of the US, I really cannot condemn the man. I know that some of you see him as a government hater and a conspiracy buff; but I wonder if you will hold the same hatred and condemnation after you live through 4 years of Obama. Perhaps when they force us to sew little yellow stars on our clothes, and little white crosses on the Christian's clothes we'll realize Mcveigh might have tried to send us a message of impending persecution under a wicked government. Rent "Waco - Rules of Engagement," and see what you think about it. Very interesting. You can now pick up your rocks and proceed to stone me if that is your wish.
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Let's not whitewash history through the normal amnesia that occurs through time. This man and his cohorts were scum. They wanted to destroy this nation and were enemies of America
Some basic common sense.
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Let's not whitewash history through the normal amnesia that occurs through time. This man and his cohorts were scum. They wanted to destroy this nation and were enemies of America
Some basic common sense.
Thank you Dr. Brennan fan. I mean that.
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Blowing up a building wasn't going to advance his cause. He just like many others felt locked out of politics and believed there was not an ability to change things through the political process.
Ultimately he did something incredibly stupid and ended up damaging all of us.
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Mcveigh hated Jews.