JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on May 14, 2007, 02:18:39 AM
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All,
I just heard Chaim's judgment on FOTL in this week's Ask JTF. Although I personally don't see Fruit's postings as evil (in very poor taste is much more like it), and at heart I genuinely see him as a sincere (albeit deeply troubled) ally of JTF, I will certainly not speak against Chaim and his desires for the forum and its decorum. I will not argue against the decision to ban him any longer.
I would request to Chaim that, at an unspecified future date, he be given a very strict second chance, but that is it. Maybe Chaim has knowledge that FOTL is an infiltrator or agent.
Otherwise, this matter is over, to me, anyway. Sorry Allen and others.
Chaimfan.
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Chaim was very angry. I believe he was right. More than half of the forum wanted him off. FOTL gets what he deserves.
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I would request to Chaim that, at an unspecified future date, he be given a very strict second chance, but that is it.
Chaimfan.
I don't think Chaim could have made himself any more clear. Why are we still discussing it?
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I think we need to follow Chaim on what needed to be done, however, I don't think that the evil motives he ascribed to Fruit were on target. He's a depressed and deranged person but he did not intend to hurt our organization in any way. He is misguided but not evil. He likes and truly respects Chaim and what we're doing.
He just posted what was on his mind and that happened to be some pretty messed up stuff. But he did not mean any harm. If anything we should feel sorry for him.
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Like I said, I truly do not think he is evil... just very lost and tortured. I really hope at some point Chaim reconsiders, but he is president of JTF for a reason and I won't oppose his decisions!
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I think Chaim's words about Fruit were exactly on point.
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I can see that right now he was not contributing anything good. He needs to work on his mental problems and misogyny, for sure.
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Fruit was not the "neurotic peacock."
Fruit was the "fertile cuckoo."
See? Anybody can write "poetry." ;D
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FOTL always sounded rather disturbed and this kind of behavior he had isn't a good way to introduce new people on a forum that is dedicated to fight the good fight, and having him slandering white women and Christians.
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I don't know... I know the guy was seriously not right and that he said some real messed up stuff, but I do still feel bad for the guy. Thinking how he must have felt when he couldn't log in or when he heard that program. I just want you guys to know I'm not heartless or just hate the guy. That was really tough and I still wish the whole thing didn't have to happen.
And just for the record, I harbor no bad feelings towards anyone who argued one way or the other.
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HE was either a mental patient or a deliberate snert. Chaim was right on the money! And there is no doubt that he should have been banned long, long ago.
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HE was either a mental patient or a deliberate snert. Chaim was right on the money! And there is no doubt that he should have been banned long, long ago.
Are you a new user? Or read the threads on the forum instead of posting. You seem to comment confidently about Fruits character as if you're judging them over a long period of time..... :-\
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Thanks Jeff for that post.
Tip for next time something like this needs to be done: I think it would help matters if someone is banned in a more respectful way. The headline "The Black Menace is Gone!" was a headline that I think really aggitated people who enjoyed fruit's posts and it came a complete shock which angered some.
Next time it should be done quietly and in a more dignified way saying "we're sorry it had to come to this....but..." and I think you would've seen fewer emotions flaring. Sometimes it's all about the packaging.
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I still think the guy has a legitimate heart. Yeah, it had to come to this, but it doesn't mean we should all call him a horrible person.
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I still think the guy has a legitimate heart. Yeah, it had to come to this, but it doesn't mean we should all call him a horrible person.
Whether or not he was a good person is irrelevant. He was bad for the forum.
Why don't all the Fruitists start a Fruit of the Loins Forum?
Then you can waste all the time you want. ;)
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Thanks Jeff for that post.
Tip for next time something like this needs to be done: I think it would help matters if someone is banned in a more respectful way. The headline "The Black Menace is Gone!" was a headline that I think really aggitated people who enjoyed fruit's posts and it came a complete shock which angered some.
Next time it should be done quietly and in a more dignified way saying "we're sorry it had to come to this....but..." and I think you would've seen fewer emotions flaring. Sometimes it's all about the packaging.
I completely agree. If this forum is going to continue to grow (and we are growing), we have to learn how to handle these things in the right way.
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Thanks Jeff for that post.
Tip for next time something like this needs to be done: I think it would help matters if someone is banned in a more respectful way. The headline "The Black Menace is Gone!" was a headline that I think really aggitated people who enjoyed fruit's posts and it came a complete shock which angered some.
Next time it should be done quietly and in a more dignified way saying "we're sorry it had to come to this....but..." and I think you would've seen fewer emotions flaring. Sometimes it's all about the packaging.
I completely agree. If this forum is going to continue to grow (and we are growing), we have to learn how to handle these things in the right way.
Yes, an animal who calls for murdering white women and Christians should be delicately and gently excused next time. Funny I bet if he called for murdering Jews it would be handled differently. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwC9dYl1O2A
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For the record, Allen-T, I didn't mean you... and I wasn't talking about Fruit... this one was messed up no matter what was posted.
I meant with others in the future as we grow.
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For the record, Allen-T, I didn't mean you... and I wasn't talking about Fruit... this one was messed up no matter what was posted.
I meant with others in the future as we grow.
I posted that very accurate headline though.
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Yes, an animal who calls for murdering white women and Christians should be delicately and gently excused next time. Funny I bet if he called for murdering Jews it would be handled differently.
Fruit once advised Imerica that if she wanted to avoid getting banned on this forum, all she had to do was say nice things about the Jews.
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Yeah, and we were too nice to Erica.
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Why don't all the Fruitists start a Fruit of the Loins Forum?
LOL!
I nominate Yacov as chief administrator. ;D
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He was pathologically evil. His hatred of white women made everyone here look foolish.
Allen-T, I'm sad to admit but you are right. Some here are slightly Jewish supremicists who definitely cop a plee for Jews way more than Christians.
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Some here are slightly Jewish supremicists who definitely cop a plee for Jews way more than Christians.
I disagree with you. Fruit wasn't even Jewish.
Jsullivan has come on here and said he isn't Jewish (though I personally think he has a Jewish soul) and neither are most of the moderators.
I'm not seeing the Jewish supremacist thing. We are so careful about that on this forum and I have ALWAYS defended the non-Jewish members.
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I'm not seeing the Jewish supremacist thing. We are so careful about that on this forum and I have ALWAYS defended the non-Jewish members.
I do believe that a genuine effort is made on this forum, by many sincere people, to live up to the principles of JTF, which for over a decade has stated repeatedly that a righteous Gentile will get everything denied to an evil Jew.
But some people on this forum did give a pass to Fruit.
Fruit once said - a very long time before he was banned - that no white woman was ever raped in the Old South - that she merely cried rape after being caught in the slave shacks.
Suppose that Fruit had said that no Jewish woman of Judea and Samaria has ever been raped by an Arab - that she merely cried rape after sneaking off to be with some strong, sleek, compassionate Arab stud after getting tired of her weak, flabby, abusive Jewish husband.
Do you think that some people on this forum would have taken such a tolerant view of Fruit then?
And by "some people", I mean the same one(s) who attacked Sarah for daring to have the same name as the Biblical Sarah.
Fruit was a troll, but he was also a touchstone - which is why we keep on discussing him.
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Quite frankly I think the Anglo-supremacist Nazis on this forum use an unfortunate but in no way serious remark about 'killing all white women' to further their own agenda. ;D But Deuteronomy commands the Jewish people to KILL any false prophet who incites to worship false gods in Eretz Israel. It is a pious and holy thing to demand the blood of any evil person who does such a thing in Israel. :)
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I didn't want Sarah to use the name Sarah because she was a Muslim. But now she's a Righteous Gentile.
QED.
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What does that stand for?
Quid erat demonstratum. "Thus it has been proven."
You picked up on what I said about the Biblical Sarah, but you completely ignored what I said - what Fruit said - about white women sneaking off to the slave shacks.
I repeat my question:
Would you have defended Fruit - and un-banned him - if he had said that no Jewish women of Judea and Samaria have ever been raped by Arabs - that Jewish women go for an Arab stud because they're sick of their cruel, stupid, wimpy Jewish husbands?
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What does that stand for?
Quid erat demonstratum. "Thus it has been proven."
You picked up on what I said about the Biblical Sarah, but you completely ignored what I said - what Fruit said - about white women sneaking off to the slave shacks.
I repeat my question:
Would you have defended Fruit - and un-banned him - if he had said that no Jewish women of Judea and Samaria have ever been raped by Arabs - that Jewish women go for an Arab stud because they're sick of their cruel, stupid, wimpy Jewish husbands?
You Nazi dolt. ;D Maybe he would only say those things about white women because he sees them doing it? And obviously he does not see Jewish women throwing themselves at Arab Nazi filth, which of course they don't?
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He wouldn't say that.
Again you ignore my question.
So you didn't mind him saying that no white woman was ever raped by blacks in the Old South?
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You Nazi dolt. Maybe he would only say those things about white women because he sees them doing it? And obviously he does not see Jewish women throwing themselves at Arab Nazi filth, which of course they don't?
I'm neither a Nazi nor a dolt, you braying [censored].
And here's one of your Jewish sluts for you:
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40040000/jpg/_40040472_fahimaap203body.jpg)
Tali Fahima not only screwed Arabs, she screwed Jews - by spying for Arab Muslim terrorists.
Stick that down your smiley face. ;D
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I don't remember him saying that but it is not acceptable to say that.
In the first place, it's interesting that I noticed it but you didn't.
And in the second place, would it change your opinion about un-banning him?
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What does that stand for?
Quid erat demonstratum. "Thus it has been proven."
You picked up on what I said about the Biblical Sarah, but you completely ignored what I said - what Fruit said - about white women sneaking off to the slave shacks.
I repeat my question:
Would you have defended Fruit - and un-banned him - if he had said that no Jewish women of Judea and Samaria have ever been raped by Arabs - that Jewish women go for an Arab stud because they're sick of their cruel, stupid, wimpy Jewish husbands?
Dissenter, me personally, I didn't like when Fruit said what he said about white women and black men. Therefore, if anyone were to say anything about Jewish women and Arabs along the same line, it be equally distasteful to me.
However, I know what you are trying to get at. There are some on this forum who desire to be too extreme. Nothing in the extreme is healthy. That goes with diets, eating certain foods, and living in certain ways or believing in certain things. What I like about this forum is that there are people here who take the middle ground and challenge the very views that jtf sometimes takes..and even challenge certain people on this forum who take an extreme stance on certain things. Kahanism will never be considered legitimate by the mainstream if anyone uses terrible extreme hateful language. Nor will prostylization of this movement do any good either.
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What does that stand for?
Quid erat demonstratum. "Thus it has been proven."
You picked up on what I said about the Biblical Sarah, but you completely ignored what I said - what Fruit said - about white women sneaking off to the slave shacks.
I repeat my question:
Would you have defended Fruit - and un-banned him - if he had said that no Jewish women of Judea and Samaria have ever been raped by Arabs - that Jewish women go for an Arab stud because they're sick of their cruel, stupid, wimpy Jewish husbands?
Dissenter, me personally, I didn't like when Fruit said what he said about white women and black men. Therefore, if anyone were to say anything about Jewish women and Arabs along the same line, it be equally distasteful to me.
However, I know what you are trying to get at. There are some on this forum who desire to be too extreme. Nothing in the extreme is healthy. That goes with diets, eating certain foods, and living in certain ways or believing in certain things. What I like about this forum is that there are people here who take the middle ground and challenge the very views that jtf sometimes takes..and even challenge certain people on this forum who take an extreme stance on certain things. Kahanism will never be considered legitimate by the mainstream if anyone uses terrible extreme hateful language. Nor will prostylization of this movement do any good either.
God is extreme. There is no sitting on the fence with God. Just like you can't be partially pregnant, you are either with God or against him. Those who are for God make a mistake and say, I made a mistake. Those who are against God make a mistake and make excuses.
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What does that stand for?
Quid erat demonstratum. "Thus it has been proven."
You picked up on what I said about the Biblical Sarah, but you completely ignored what I said - what Fruit said - about white women sneaking off to the slave shacks.
I repeat my question:
Would you have defended Fruit - and un-banned him - if he had said that no Jewish women of Judea and Samaria have ever been raped by Arabs - that Jewish women go for an Arab stud because they're sick of their cruel, stupid, wimpy Jewish husbands?
Of course Jews will be much more touchy about those attacking us just as Christians will be more touchy about those attacking them. It's natural to identify with and stick up for you're own religion first. You're religious group is sort of like an extended family, and I don't think worrying about them first makes you a supremecist. Generations of persecution have taught some of us Jews that if we don't take care of our own first no one else will.
Now, I personally never saw Fruit call for the death of Christians, but if he did then he got what was coming to him and I understand where you are coming from Allen-T. Because you're right, if Jews were the target of the comments I would be also be fuming. I do see where you're coming from.
However, some of his comments are really taken out of context. For instance,
You and Chaim often say he'd "call for the extermination of white women". This would lead you to believe Fruit hated white women. But in truth his posts show he LOVED white women. He spoke about them in the highest esteem. He was infatuated with them. It was his perceived rejection by white women that caused him to verbally lash out on them from time to time. So when the Virginia attacks happened he made that comment in that context and it was way over the line. But I don't think anyone who read it at the time saw it as a call to anyone to start killing anyone. It was just a depressed guy using hyperbole to convey his frustrations.
BTW-Allen-T. How much money would you be willing to put down that Fruit is really black? I mean you can't be serious. I've never seen a black man write, talk or think like that ever.
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What does that stand for?
Quid erat demonstratum. "Thus it has been proven."
You picked up on what I said about the Biblical Sarah, but you completely ignored what I said - what Fruit said - about white women sneaking off to the slave shacks.
I repeat my question:
Would you have defended Fruit - and un-banned him - if he had said that no Jewish women of Judea and Samaria have ever been raped by Arabs - that Jewish women go for an Arab stud because they're sick of their cruel, stupid, wimpy Jewish husbands?
Dissenter, me personally, I didn't like when Fruit said what he said about white women and black men. Therefore, if anyone were to say anything about Jewish women and Arabs along the same line, it be equally distasteful to me.
However, I know what you are trying to get at. There are some on this forum who desire to be too extreme. Nothing in the extreme is healthy. That goes with diets, eating certain foods, and living in certain ways or believing in certain things. What I like about this forum is that there are people here who take the middle ground and challenge the very views that jtf sometimes takes..and even challenge certain people on this forum who take an extreme stance on certain things. Kahanism will never be considered legitimate by the mainstream if anyone uses terrible extreme hateful language. Nor will prostylization of this movement do any good either.
G-d is extreme. There is no sitting on the fence with G-d. Just like you can't be partially pregnant, you are either with G-d or against him. Those who are for G-d make a mistake and say, I made a mistake. Those who are against G-d make a mistake and make excuses.
You're right. The problem is not being extreme. The problem is knowing when to be extreme, about what and how best to do it. If people don't know how to do that properly yet, they're best keeping away from serious extremes until they do know how so they don't do serious damage. But ultimately you're right. There's not book in the library for the "Great moderates in history"...they don't exist.
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Of course Jews will be much more touchy about those attacking us just as Christians will be more touchy about those attacking them.
I must admit that when Thunderbolt posted that old-news video of the Jewish kid, I simply passed over it - and only partly because I was busy squashing Fruit.
But I would never defend Thunderbolt, who's clearly a stormtrooper. Just look at his name.
On the other hand, Fruit had quite a following here, at least for a while. Which is unfortunate.
By the way, Fruit, if you're reading this - as you probably are - didn't I tell you that you're not as clever as you think you are?
You tried to sneak back in tonight, like a cockroach, and got stomped on after just a couple of posts. ;D
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Of course Jews will be much more touchy about those attacking us just as Christians will be more touchy about those attacking them.
I must admit that when Thunderbolt posted that old-news video of the Jewish kid, I simply passed over it - and only partly because I was busy squashing Fruit.
But I would never defend Thunderbolt, who's clearly a stormtrooper. Just look at his name.
On the other hand, Fruit had quite a following here, at least for a while. Which is unfortunate.
By the way, Fruit, if you're reading this - as you probably are - didn't I tell you that you're not as clever as you think you are?
You tried to sneak back in tonight, like a cockroach, and got stomped on after just a couple of posts. ;D
What's your problem with Thunderbolt?
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What's your problem with Thunderbolt?
For instance, here's a quote of his from the "StørmFrønt" thread:
This Jewish kid in the video should be executed.
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4667.msg34721#msg34721 (http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4667.msg34721#msg34721)
Thunderbolt's user name should tell you everything. The German Nazi SS wore the insignia of lightning bolts in the SS shape.
(I was wrong, though, to say that Thunderbolt posted the video. He merely agreed with it. Nic Brookes posted it.)
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I repeat my question:
Would you have defended Fruit - and un-banned him - if he had said that no Jewish women of Judea and Samaria have ever been raped by Arabs - that Jewish women go for an Arab stud because they're sick of their cruel, stupid, wimpy Jewish husbands?
lubab, what a great response. Bravo! That was very intelligent and honest. Post more, man.
Dissenter, since I banned him, I'd have to say there was no favoritism since he attacked Christians. I see what you are saying, though. You are saying he shouldn't had been allowed to stay at all once he crossed the line and by keeping him here, it showed the appearance (real or not) of favoritism. I felt that FOTL was calculatingly divisive and we are seeing this now.
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What's your problem with Thunderbolt?
For instance, here's a quote of his from the "StørmFrønt" thread:
This Jewish kid in the video should be executed.
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4667.msg34721#msg34721 (http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4667.msg34721#msg34721)
Thunderbolt's user name should tell you everything. The German Nazi SS wore the insignia of lightning bolts in the SS shape.
(I was wrong, though, to say that Thunderbolt posted the video. He merely agreed with it. Nic Brookes posted it.)
hmmm
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What does that stand for?
Quid erat demonstratum. "Thus it has been proven."
You picked up on what I said about the Biblical Sarah, but you completely ignored what I said - what Fruit said - about white women sneaking off to the slave shacks.
I repeat my question:
Would you have defended Fruit - and un-banned him - if he had said that no Jewish women of Judea and Samaria have ever been raped by Arabs - that Jewish women go for an Arab stud because they're sick of their cruel, stupid, wimpy Jewish husbands?
Of course Jews will be much more touchy about those attacking us just as Christians will be more touchy about those attacking them. It's natural to identify with and stick up for you're own religion first. You're religious group is sort of like an extended family, and I don't think worrying about them first makes you a supremecist. Generations of persecution have taught some of us Jews that if we don't take care of our own first no one else will.
Now, I personally never saw Fruit call for the death of Christians, but if he did then he got what was coming to him and I understand where you are coming from Allen-T. Because you're right, if Jews were the target of the comments I would be also be fuming. I do see where you're coming from.
However, some of his comments are really taken out of context. For instance,
You and Chaim often say he'd "call for the extermination of white women". This would lead you to believe Fruit hated white women. But in truth his posts show he LOVED white women. He spoke about them in the highest esteem. He was infatuated with them. It was his perceived rejection by white women that caused him to verbally lash out on them from time to time. So when the Virginia attacks happened he made that comment in that context and it was way over the line. But I don't think anyone who read it at the time saw it as a call to anyone to start killing anyone. It was just a depressed guy using hyperbole to convey his frustrations.
BTW-Allen-T. How much money would you be willing to put down that Fruit is really black? I mean you can't be serious. I've never seen a black man write, talk or think like that ever.
Fruit hated white women. His seemingly positive but really idolatrous comments were probably because he is horny. His comments displayed an intense level of selfishness. I don't gamble, but I have known several black men who can write like that and are educated. Also, I do not esteem other Christians over Jews. I would take offence in the same manner if either were targets of hatred. Believe me, if you were a Christian you'd realise that isn't too difficult either ;)
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What does that stand for?
Quid erat demonstratum. "Thus it has been proven."
You picked up on what I said about the Biblical Sarah, but you completely ignored what I said - what Fruit said - about white women sneaking off to the slave shacks.
I repeat my question:
Would you have defended Fruit - and un-banned him - if he had said that no Jewish women of Judea and Samaria have ever been raped by Arabs - that Jewish women go for an Arab stud because they're sick of their cruel, stupid, wimpy Jewish husbands?
Dissenter, me personally, I didn't like when Fruit said what he said about white women and black men. Therefore, if anyone were to say anything about Jewish women and Arabs along the same line, it be equally distasteful to me.
However, I know what you are trying to get at. There are some on this forum who desire to be too extreme. Nothing in the extreme is healthy. That goes with diets, eating certain foods, and living in certain ways or believing in certain things. What I like about this forum is that there are people here who take the middle ground and challenge the very views that jtf sometimes takes..and even challenge certain people on this forum who take an extreme stance on certain things. Kahanism will never be considered legitimate by the mainstream if anyone uses terrible extreme hateful language. Nor will prostylization of this movement do any good either.
G-d is extreme. There is no sitting on the fence with G-d. Just like you can't be partially pregnant, you are either with G-d or against him. Those who are for G-d make a mistake and say, I made a mistake. Those who are against G-d make a mistake and make excuses.
Allen, that doesn't mean that Gd is extreme. Two people can look at the color purple and one will say, "yeh, it's purple." An extremist will simply say it's black because it's a dark color. IMagine if all people called dark colors black and all lightly shaded colors white...what a boring world it would be! I don't think Gd intended on a world like that.
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My reaction to the Jewish child in that video was too much and I apologize for it. As for being a nazi, I'm saddened you think I'm a nazi because of my name. My name is Thunderbolt because I am a fan of the San Diego Chargers, whose logo is a thunderbolt.
As for agreeing with the video, what is to agree with? It shows someone getting verbally abused by a young settler? What's to agree with?
Again, I apologize for my feelings towards the teenager in that video.
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What does that stand for?
Quid erat demonstratum. "Thus it has been proven."
You picked up on what I said about the Biblical Sarah, but you completely ignored what I said - what Fruit said - about white women sneaking off to the slave shacks.
I repeat my question:
Would you have defended Fruit - and un-banned him - if he had said that no Jewish women of Judea and Samaria have ever been raped by Arabs - that Jewish women go for an Arab stud because they're sick of their cruel, stupid, wimpy Jewish husbands?
Dissenter, me personally, I didn't like when Fruit said what he said about white women and black men. Therefore, if anyone were to say anything about Jewish women and Arabs along the same line, it be equally distasteful to me.
However, I know what you are trying to get at. There are some on this forum who desire to be too extreme. Nothing in the extreme is healthy. That goes with diets, eating certain foods, and living in certain ways or believing in certain things. What I like about this forum is that there are people here who take the middle ground and challenge the very views that jtf sometimes takes..and even challenge certain people on this forum who take an extreme stance on certain things. Kahanism will never be considered legitimate by the mainstream if anyone uses terrible extreme hateful language. Nor will prostylization of this movement do any good either.
G-d is extreme. There is no sitting on the fence with G-d. Just like you can't be partially pregnant, you are either with G-d or against him. Those who are for G-d make a mistake and say, I made a mistake. Those who are against G-d make a mistake and make excuses.
Allen, that doesn't mean that Gd is extreme. Two people can look at the color purple and one will say, "yeh, it's purple." An extremist will simply say it's black because it's a dark color. IMagine if all people called dark colors black and all lightly shaded colors white...what a boring world it would be! I don't think Gd intended on a world like that.
I have no idea what you mean. What does a colourful and complex world have to do with whether you serve God or not? Gods ways are extreme in relation to what our evil nature likes to do. That's what I meant. You don't stop trying to get closer to God because you notice that on the way your becoming "extreme". That's just the perspective of the weak that are jealous of you.
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How can anyone take a user name a say because of it he's a nazi :o ???
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How can anyone take a user name a say because of it he's a nazi :o ???
You're partially right, Mord. I have no proof that Thunderbolt is a Nazi. It's only speculation, and I could very well be wrong.
If I am wrong, Thunderbolt, I apologize for it. I was also called a Nazi here last night, albeit by a crazy - Fruit - whose words don't mean anything.
I relied on the title and subject of the "StørmFrønt" thread, and on what Thunderbolt said about the Jewish kid, and on Thunderbolt's user name - with its apparent reference to Nazism - to make what may very well have been an unfounded assumption.
But you're also wrong, Mord. As I just explained, it wasn't just Thunderbolt's user name. It was also what he said, and other circumstances.
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What does that stand for?
Quid erat demonstratum. "Thus it has been proven."
You picked up on what I said about the Biblical Sarah, but you completely ignored what I said - what Fruit said - about white women sneaking off to the slave shacks.
I repeat my question:
Would you have defended Fruit - and un-banned him - if he had said that no Jewish women of Judea and Samaria have ever been raped by Arabs - that Jewish women go for an Arab stud because they're sick of their cruel, stupid, wimpy Jewish husbands?
Dissenter, me personally, I didn't like when Fruit said what he said about white women and black men. Therefore, if anyone were to say anything about Jewish women and Arabs along the same line, it be equally distasteful to me.
However, I know what you are trying to get at. There are some on this forum who desire to be too extreme. Nothing in the extreme is healthy. That goes with diets, eating certain foods, and living in certain ways or believing in certain things. What I like about this forum is that there are people here who take the middle ground and challenge the very views that jtf sometimes takes..and even challenge certain people on this forum who take an extreme stance on certain things. Kahanism will never be considered legitimate by the mainstream if anyone uses terrible extreme hateful language. Nor will prostylization of this movement do any good either.
G-d is extreme. There is no sitting on the fence with G-d. Just like you can't be partially pregnant, you are either with G-d or against him. Those who are for G-d make a mistake and say, I made a mistake. Those who are against G-d make a mistake and make excuses.
Allen, that doesn't mean that Gd is extreme. Two people can look at the color purple and one will say, "yeh, it's purple." An extremist will simply say it's black because it's a dark color. IMagine if all people called dark colors black and all lightly shaded colors white...what a boring world it would be! I don't think Gd intended on a world like that.
I have no idea what you mean. What does a colourful and complex world have to do with whether you serve G-d or not? Gods ways are extreme in relation to what our evil nature likes to do. That's what I meant. You don't stop trying to get closer to G-d because you notice that on the way your becoming "extreme". That's just the perspective of the weak that are jealous of you.
First, after I read what Dissenter articulated about Gd being extreme, I understood what both of you meant.. Yes I agree. I thought you meant something else.
Secondly, I'm not jealous of you ::)
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First, after I read what Dissenter articulated about Gd being extreme....
That wasn't me, Danny. I think it was Allen, although it's hard to tell with all of those quotes wrapped inside quotes. I was just discussing what Fruit said and people's reactions to him.
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First, after I read what Dissenter articulated about Gd being extreme....
That wasn't me, Danny. I think it was Allen, although it's hard to tell with all of those quotes wrapped inside quotes. I was just discussing what Fruit said and people's reactions to him.
ooops, looked back, it was Lubab that clarified Allen..my bad...
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Dissenter, where do you come from? Are you Jewish?
Theres something about you thats extremely fascinating and you have a very charismatic personality, that of a leader. :-\ :)
The reason Fruit had quite a following Dissenter is due to his addressing forth on many issues that we all touch upon but are too embarrassed to fully discuss or solve. Another reason was due to his mysterious personality, that seemed to add character to his posts.
If i turned your question directed to Yacov, to yourself if you were in an admin position, you would contradict yourself. Like you said, crazy - Fruit - whose words don't mean anything.
Would that mean that you wouldn't ban him because his words are meaningless and unaffectable?
I laughed when i read your comment " By the way Fruit, if you're reading this-as you probably are. Didn't i tell you that you're not as clever as you think you are?"
.........because it applies to you also -not to mention myself and all of us on the Forum. We all think we can catch somebody out, solve the problem but while we are caught up in the spur of the moment don't realise that we're actually being caught and ridiculed ourselves.
I'm trying to be clever now and ironically looking back at what i've just written it reads like nonsense but has relevance to some things that you can relate to. We're all stupid.
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What does that stand for?
Quid erat demonstratum. "Thus it has been proven."
You picked up on what I said about the Biblical Sarah, but you completely ignored what I said - what Fruit said - about white women sneaking off to the slave shacks.
I repeat my question:
Would you have defended Fruit - and un-banned him - if he had said that no Jewish women of Judea and Samaria have ever been raped by Arabs - that Jewish women go for an Arab stud because they're sick of their cruel, stupid, wimpy Jewish husbands?
Dissenter, me personally, I didn't like when Fruit said what he said about white women and black men. Therefore, if anyone were to say anything about Jewish women and Arabs along the same line, it be equally distasteful to me.
However, I know what you are trying to get at. There are some on this forum who desire to be too extreme. Nothing in the extreme is healthy. That goes with diets, eating certain foods, and living in certain ways or believing in certain things. What I like about this forum is that there are people here who take the middle ground and challenge the very views that jtf sometimes takes..and even challenge certain people on this forum who take an extreme stance on certain things. Kahanism will never be considered legitimate by the mainstream if anyone uses terrible extreme hateful language. Nor will prostylization of this movement do any good either.
G-d is extreme. There is no sitting on the fence with G-d. Just like you can't be partially pregnant, you are either with G-d or against him. Those who are for G-d make a mistake and say, I made a mistake. Those who are against G-d make a mistake and make excuses.
Allen, that doesn't mean that Gd is extreme. Two people can look at the color purple and one will say, "yeh, it's purple." An extremist will simply say it's black because it's a dark color. IMagine if all people called dark colors black and all lightly shaded colors white...what a boring world it would be! I don't think Gd intended on a world like that.
I have no idea what you mean. What does a colourful and complex world have to do with whether you serve G-d or not? Gods ways are extreme in relation to what our evil nature likes to do. That's what I meant. You don't stop trying to get closer to G-d because you notice that on the way your becoming "extreme". That's just the perspective of the weak that are jealous of you.
First, after I read what Dissenter articulated about Gd being extreme, I understood what both of you meant.. Yes I agree. I thought you meant something else.
Secondly, I'm not jealous of you ::)
C'mon, I meant people in general. :-*
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Dissenter, where do you come from? Are you Jewish?
Theres something about you thats extremely fascinating and you have a very charismatic personality, that of a leader. :-\ :)
The reason Fruit had quite a following Dissenter is due to his addressing forth on many issues that we all touch upon but are too embarrassed to fully discuss or solve. Another reason was due to his mysterious personality, that seemed to add character to his posts.
If i turned your question directed to Yacov, to yourself if you were in an admin position, you would contradict yourself. Like you said, crazy - Fruit - whose words don't mean anything.
Would that mean that you wouldn't ban him because his words are meaningless and unaffectable?
I laughed when i read your comment " By the way Fruit, if you're reading this-as you probably are. Didn't i tell you that you're not as clever as you think you are?"
.........because it applies to you also -not to mention myself and all of us on the Forum. We all think we can catch somebody out, solve the problem but while we are caught up in the spur of the moment don't realise that we're actually being caught and ridiculed ourselves.
I'm trying to be clever now and ironically looking back at what i've just written it reads like nonsense but has relevance to some things that you can relate to. We're all stupid.
Speak for yourself.
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Lol, yeah i should.
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Dissenter, where do you come from? Are you Jewish?
Thanks for all of the compliments, Sarah, but I think that you're giving me too much credit.
No, I'm not Jewish, and I don't consider myself a leader. I'm just a boring workaday guy who lives in Manhattan and watches politics on television and reads a lot - including the JTF.ORG web site, which I recommend to many of our posters who still don't fully understand JTF's many positions. (Rational Thought, are you reading this?)
As I said in one of my other posts, I've been a fan of JTF since it first went on TV in the early 1990s. I don't agree with all of JTF's positions, but I've never gotten over my fascination with Chaim's take on the issues, and with his uncanny knack to be right about so many of them.
Making decisions about who to ban and who not to ban is difficult. We all have our own views on it. There was even a discussion recently about banning people who dared to dispute the contention that Torah scholars are (collectively, at least) infallible beings worthy almost of apotheosis.
As for me, I'm not even sure if it's right to ban people who come across as Nazis or Muslims or black or Hispanic racists, as long as they're honest about who they are, stick to the issues, back up their statements with facts (or what they believe are facts), and don't use obscenity, insults or threats.
On the other hand - and this is also a valid point of view - there are those admins who believe that we shouldn't waste our time and energy engaging in banter with people who will always hate us. Instead, we should get our rear in gear and start doing more to promote JTF of YouTube.
I wouldn't have banned Fruit, at least not at first. When I first came on here, I simply engaged him. In fact, I registered for that express purpose. I couldn't stand watching him throw insults around and wearing masks and not getting called for it.
But the admins can't tolerate overt threats of violence, or any of the other crazy things which Fruit, in the last stages of his meltdown, was apparently saying.
Don't worry about thinking yourself stupid. Remember what Socrates said - that the more he learned, the more he realized that he didn't know anything.
And speaking of Socrates - whom the Torah sages also admired, if only for his logical thinking - he was the one who invented the method, now called by his name, of letting people talk until they tripped themselves up, as they inevitably did. In the end, it earned him so much hatred that it proved the death of him. So maybe you've got something there, too.
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I don't gamble, but I have known several black men who can write like that and are educated.
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I don't gamble either. It was just a hypothetical.
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As an aside, in Judaism sexuality and horniness are not intrinsically bad things. They are truly holy things that just must be channeled in the right direction or otherwise can be abused.
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As an aside, in Judaism sexuality and horniness are not intrinsically bad things. They are truly holy things that just must be channeled in the right direction or otherwise can be abused.
Yes, Song Of Solomon is wonderful!!
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As an aside, in Judaism sexuality and horniness are not intrinsically bad things. They are truly holy things that just must be channeled in the right direction or otherwise can be abused.
Yes, Song Of Solomon is wonderful!!
But it is allegorical. It is a story between G-d and His people Israel.
On one level.
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Yacov, I differ with you and Chaim on the meaning of Song of Songs. I do believe it is meant as a biblical celebration of marital sexuality--and everything that transpires within. It's meant to show mankind that sex is holy and wonderful and awesome, and not dirty or intrinsically about procreation--that is, in the confines of a G-dly marriage.
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Alot of things in the Bible can be interpreted on more than one level.
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Some of the things Fruit said are so completely outrageous I have a very, very hard time accepting that he believed them or meant them literally. I think he intentionally said preposterous things for us to laugh at, like, for instance, the comment about white women in the South lying about rape after being caught in the slaves' hogans (which I did not know about, and which I must confess is hilarious :D ;D).
It is insane if we are at each others' throats over comments made by an individual that were so obviously intended to be as shocking and bizarre as possible for effect. If indeed he was a troll with the intention of dividing JTF, then we are completely playing into his hands.
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Alot of things in the Bible can be interpreted on more than one level.
What I meant is that I think the literal exegesis is probably the main meaning of SOS.
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Alot of things in the Bible can be interpreted on more than one level.
What I meant is that I think the literal exegesis is probably the main meaning of SOS.
I'd say that it equally represents both.
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That probably sounded really bad. Allen, remove the above post if you find it offensive.
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That probably sounded really bad. Allen, remove the above post if you find it offensive.
I didn't find it offensive per se but others might. I know what you are saying,though but not every literal passage has a multiple meaning, but overall is what I meant.
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Okay. I just really think a lot of Scripture is literal. I get sick of too many arguments of "figurative" exegesis. A lot of people claim that the story of creation is "allegorical" also and that evolution is still real. What a joke. ::)
I know of course that Chaim and Yacov aren't coming from that position whatsoever. I'm just having a different opinion than them. ;)
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Okay. I just really think a lot of Scripture is literal. I get sick of too many arguments of "figurative" exegesis. A lot of people claim that the story of creation is "allegorical" also and that evolution is still real. What a joke. ::)
I know of course that Chaim and Yacov aren't coming from that position whatsoever. I'm just having a different opinion than them. ;)
You are right, people do try to read many things in the Bible that aren't there. But, I think there are some pretty legitimate, profound multi-level meanings in scripture. The 7 letters in Revelation are, in my opinion an example of this.
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Clearly, FOTL shouldn't be taken seriously when he asks such questions of Chaim like, "Tell me the best way to commit suicide!" I mean, c'mon! Chaim should have just completely ignored the question and shouldn't have even dignified it.
My dispute isn't on whether FOTL should or shouldn't be banned. All I'm saying is that these types of decisions should be left to the administrators and not to Chaim.
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Do people think comparing Fruit's poetry of violence against white women to an allegory is just as bad as saying The Koran is allegorical?
Yes, except I don't think Fruit as followers. Can you imagine some Lewisham [censored] running after a white female Londoner screaming Fruity u Akbar??
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Creation and evolution are real. They don't contradict each other.
I don't believe in theistic evolution. I think Genesis is pretty clear about outright creation in six days.
Anyhow, I don't know how to answer your question as to whether or not Fruit's comments should be viewed as allegory or as a Koran-like incitement to violence. I think I offered a third explanation to thosel two (that he literally meant them and that they are allegorical). I proposed that he was going out of his way to be as shocking and offensive as possible. Could be wrong... :-\